Confessions of a Reformed Metho... Bapti... Costal

Ministry Origins and the Shift from Teen Girls to Women

Hey guys, it's Keith Foskey and welcome back to conversations with a Calvinist today. I'm excited to have my new friend Susan here from steadfast women. Susan. Thank you for coming into the conversation with a Calvinist studio today.

Yes, ma 'am, I'm glad to have you and I'm glad to have had you today in our worship service. Yeah, we had you worship along with us. I am thankful to have you and you reached out to me last week said you were going to be in town.

Yeah. And so I thought it would be a good idea. Good opportunity for us to get to know each other because we've talked to each other online quite a bit. Yes, but I Twitter friends. Yes, we're Twitter friends.

And what's interesting about that is usually when I see you I see two faces.

So tell me what that's about. So I have an identical twin sister named Sarah and she was actually supposed to come on this vacation with me as well. That she is about 24 weeks Pregnant with baby number three and she did not want to be away from any of her doctors since you're Kind of reaching that touch-and-go point if she were, you know somewhere to happen Having a baby early and so she is at home watching my dogs, which I'm thankful for.

So it's cheaper than a kennel if she watches them and so she's doing that and I really wish she could be here.

But she just couldn't make the trip for that reason. So now you said your twin sister. Mm-hmm identical twins and y 'all live real close to one another. We have.

There used to not be any houses between us. But now there has been one house built in between us in the last few years out in rural, Tennessee. And so I can like see the top of her trees. She can see the top of my trees.

From where we are. So yeah, we live right at the base Of the Appalachian Mountains, so just pretty much right out our doors and there's the mountain range.

So when I first saw you guys on Twitter, it was the the handle is steadfast women. Mm-hmm, so I saw it. I knew it was a ministry of some sort because that's obviously not either of your names. Yeah, not steadfast.

It's not your name. But I was intrigued because obviously it was two ladies. I didn't realize you were identical twins, but I guess thinking back to the picture I figured that out because you look exactly like but you know, I guess I assumed that you were sisters.

But how how did that start and and and and what is it? What exactly is steadfast women? Maybe that's the way to begin. What do you guys do? And how did you get started?

So steadfast women originally was called transform for more and the idea actually came from my sister because she was a freshman English teacher. And we had both been involved in youth ministry in various churches and various roles.

False Conversion, American Gospel, and the Need for Discernment

And so she felt like she kept seeing the same issues getting the same questions From teenagers and she thought why don't we start a blog and social media pages try to connect with youth? Ministries try to connect with youth pastors see if they like any of our resources.

She wrote several books based on her questions that she would get so that it could be a resource for parents to have for students to have and Then a few years in She left The teaching profession because she had her first child and she's been a stay-at-home homeschooling mom ever since then and So when you kind of get away from like the pulse and heartbeat of teenage life and what's all going on?

We didn't really feel like we had content. She said I feel like I've said everything I needed to say. She said I feel like I've made all the resources and I've needed to make. I've written all the books that I'm gonna write I've blogged everything and one of our big things was like the cycle of violence for teenage dating because that's very prevalent.

It's even prevalent more now that you throw cell phones and all this confusion into the mix.

And so like abuse within boyfriend-girlfriend.

Girlfriend relationships, yeah. And healthy relationships and. More there's you know in Christian circles as we came to find out there was this big distinction between dating and courtship. Where we didn't really one of her books her most popular book probably was called So you think you're ready to date and you're actually supposed to walk away if a teenager.

It's written up like a devotional that parents can do with a teen girl or a teen girl can do it by herself. Maybe if her, you know, she doesn't have Christian parents, but somebody in her life wants to get her this resource.

Sure, you know and you're actually supposed to walk away with it realizing you're probably not ready to date because you're a young teenager but it's. But if somebody makes that choice today as a young teenager or even an older teenager.

Then it at least tries to lay out practical steps and boundaries to safeguard yourself from falling into the traps that so many. Fall into like our number one article has always been. Well, God forgive me for sexting that has.

Statistically. When we ran transform for more was just always every time we get our analytics. The the number one traffic to our site was articles like that that we wrote. So these you know, these teenagers are obviously googling it.

They're not asking their parents, you know, those sorts of things.

So yeah, you think it is you would say then as probably teenagers who are reading that not necessarily parents downloading it. Giving it to their kids, but kids themselves reaching out for that material.

Yes. Wow. Yep.

I have a feeling that they are the one they were googling it. They had messed up can talk to their parents about it. And we had done some counseling to with teenage girls like they're in our local lives.

Their parents would be say oh my goodness. We found out our daughter sent these pictures. We found out all of this stuff and they were like, can you guys help her? And so we would try to counsel, you know through that and give resources and then we kind of got away from.

From kind of that whole part, you know, and as you get a little older, too It seems like you become more like talking to your mom instead of like talking to an older sister. Yeah you know which is why I felt like a lot of people brought their girls to be counseled by us because there was just a Younger voice than what their parents were and now we're like the parents ages of teenagers.

Yeah, and so we also so I was a false convert for 20 years and I was saved in 2017. So you combine that and I start to ask questions. How was I deceived for so long? And I grew up in the church like I don't get it and so we start asking questions and then God starts putting pieces together and we Kind of see that there's just some things broader in the church.

That is really Sabotaging the walk of women who want to know more about God and so we just did a total change in our ministry and Step back from a focus on teenagers to just all women where we expose deception.

Examine resources and equip women with the word and so that has been in 2020. So four years of teen ministry in 2020 we sent we transitioned to steadfast women and have been doing that type of work ever since.

Okay I want to go back to steadfast women in a moment because I want to talk about how you do your Instagram page. Okay, all of those things but before I do that because you mentioned it so I don't want to forget.

Okay, that is the the idea of being a false convert for 20 years because I know that I grew up in a situation where I was Introduced to the church when I was 7 my parents got a divorce and my stepmom brought me to church.

You met her today. Yeah, and Same church. I've been the same church since I was 7. This is this is the church. Okay, and and I got baptized at 8 years old because I saw everybody else getting okay. I thought that's what I was supposed to do.

Yeah, but I didn't actually get converted until I was 19. It was actually after my wife and I got married. Okay, we were married in this church. And and within six months she got saved and then I got saved shortly thereafter.

Okay, but again all through high school all through middle school I would have claimed to be a Christian because I went to church. I would have said that was what Christians do. They go to church on Sunday.

They live a relatively moral life through the week and You know, that was basically what I did. I was a pretty Reasonable young man counted on do things. I was into band and sports and everyone not really sports.

But I did. I did the band and I did karate karate karate is sports for geeks. Yeah. But that was my life. So tell me about you. You're you said 20 years. Yeah, I felt like you were not a believer.

So I grew up in a United Methodist Church. My dad was raised in a Methodist Church. And then my mom has really strong Pentecostal roots was raised Church of God. And so they raised us in a small Methodist Church where we were and one night at Children's Church the pastor's wife was doing a lesson on end times and it was Horribly scary for a 10 year old to sit and listen to the way it was all presented and then at the end she said.

But you know if you're saved Then you'll be taken in the rapture and you won't have to go through any of this bad stuff. If you know if you just ask Jesus into your heart and you're saved He'll take you out and you won't have to do any of this stuff.

So I mean what ten-year-old girl? In the class, I didn't do anything. But before we actually even got out of the car when my mom got me home I was just squalling in the front seat and I just like told her what happened and you know.

She said this and that and you know, so mom got you know. Talked to I mean I'd been raised in church and we had my mom played the piano in church. And so, you know you have I mean it was just all around us raised in a sea of it.

And so she talked to me a little bit about you know The gospel in Jesus making sure like I understood those basics and then she led me through the prayer of you know Salvation presented me to the church the next week but I've learned since becoming a Baptist that they they you know See baptism a lot more seriously than the Methodist Church I grew up in did and so I actually was not baptized until I was 19.

And so but I had. You know as Jesus isn't in my heart and then I was I mean me and my twin of course. My twin sister was truly converted at 14. So when I look back on my life, I'm like well No wonder Sarah didn't struggle as much as me.

She was truly saved and I still but still we were the person that like I said people brought their daughters to for counseling or that we were the people they They wanted their daughters to be friends with us because we weren't drinking.

We weren't sleeping around. We were going to church every Sunday. We were in but we were the youth group. People in our church, but you know that sort of example somebody you'd want your daughters to be friends with somebody.

You would want your sons to date, but it was all like I look back on it and I'm like, well What good is the whitewash tamed? You know, that's all I was. I was filled dead man's bone but I looked awesome on the outside and could and could run you my checklist of how great of a Christian I was and Really truly knew not Christ.

When you told me off camera that the film American Gospel had a had a big impact on you. Wait before we go there. Okay. You also mentioned the rapture thing. Did you see my video on thief in the night?

No, I did it. You know what thief in the night is no. It's a video. It's a video about the rapture that they used in the 70s and 80s. It was made in 72 to scare people. Okay, what you talked about? I had never seen it.

So I so James White gave me a hard time for not seeing it. Okay, so I watched it and I'd film my reaction, okay.

That's probably the only way I could watch it because that was so much. And then after that I had like an unreasonable fear of in times like there would be if I was in a Church and you know visiting a friend or wherever I was and they started talking about revelation or even reading the part in the Gospels.

Where they start hinting at in times the end of all things I would truly get up and leave just in tears. Yeah, I mean just a total unhealthy fear for so long about in times because of that experience.

It's so funny because my wife got saved through me sharing with her about the the end times before I was even saved. Really and and that's it's so funny because we look back at it now. I had grown up in church had heard all these things and I was telling her I did security and so she would come up.

And I was I would work all night doing security and she came up and sat with me while I was doing security. And we've been we've been left in 17. But I was telling her about Jesus's return. I wasn't saved.

Okay, but you know a lot of scripture. Yeah, yeah, so it's funny how God did use that in a positive way in my wife and then I actually got saved after her. But but I know we've kind of gone in a circle, but I just had to mention thief in the night.

Okay. Yes, I'll definitely look that up the but the American Gospel. Mm-hmm. You would say that was actually used by God to influence you. And yes, so I was saved in 2017 and.

I it took a little bit to really realize what had happened to me because I thought I was saved and then I I had actually missed had a miscarriage and I fell into a depression. Started going to a counselor who I did not realize now I do was a word of faith counselor and but even from one of our very first meetings She said I don't think you have a problem with depression.

I think your problem is spiritual which now that I know a lot about the word of faith movement I'm not surprised that they would say that but she wasn't wrong. And so that kind of led me. Because I knew enough I had read enough in the Bible had been in church enough to know that Christians are supposed to suffer.

Well, and I looked at my life and how I was handling like this loss of a child like even months out now. And I said I am not suffering. Like I I know what the Bible says and I don't see any fruit of it which caused like a real crisis that the Lord eventually read led me through and then I really like I Don't know.

I mean, I guess everybody has different salvation stories but there was a true night where I just realized that this life was not about me and everything that I was Concentrating on with the suffering of the miscarriage and whatever else in my life was all me me meet me.

And it's like that night. The Lord was like None of this is about you None of is about you and like until I got my eyes off of myself I'm never and I knew that like because I I remember just hitting the floor and praying and I knew when I got up my Life was never gonna be the same.

But I didn't know what had happened still and then you kind of go on and I realized through the fruit in my life and things that are starting to happening and Sins that God is starting to reveal to me that I didn't even know I had nor struggled with.

Was just mind-blowing. And so then I really Tried not to fall into bitterness, but I was kind of like how did I grow up in the church for 20 years? And never struggle with my salvation do all the right things get through high school and college into marriage.

You know is the perfect, you know, you know pure husband and a pure wife and this is supposed to be the greatest life you know, and so I struggled how did I grow up and Just not know that I wasn't saved and then in 2019.

I saw American Gospel. And that movie was the one I watched where I was like, oh, that's how. That's how I can grow up in the church and not know I'm saved and I didn't know one of the things American Gospel did Was introduced me to Bible teachers that I did solid Bible teachers like not the ones from TVN.

Like people like I mean who's in there Phil Johnson Paul Washer Steve Lawson John MacArthur all the people the solid people that they interview. I'd never heard of any of them any of them didn't know a thing about them.

So the about the second or third time I watch it I'm sitting there with like a piece of pen and paper like, okay Steve Lawson, okay. That guy's name is Paul Washer and I'm googling like trying to figure out who these men are because I've never heard anybody Talk about Christ the way that these men are talking about Christ and so then American Gospel 2 comes out and It's all about the Atonement and my husband watches it and the night that he watches it.

He comes to me a couple days later and says Susan I think I've been a false convert and he said because the way that they talked about The cross and what was truly accomplished for us on the cross in salvation.

He said I've never heard anybody talk about the cross that way and he said I just think I get it now and he was. Like and I think I'm really saved. He said I think God has saved me and so like for two false converts like and I let you preached on marriage this morning and husbands and wives and I'm just like even to look at our marriage from 2020 on with two saved people instead of pre 2020 with two people who were falsely converted just thinking they were saved like it's almost like just being married to new people.

Like we're both just made new brand new people and which has made our marriage sweeter than it's ever been. I mean, it's just it's just really a beautiful thing that like I feel like neither one of us deserve at all.

But God has just been so gracious to us. So how long how long have you been married. 13 13 years? Oh, yeah. We got married. I was 22 and he was 24. Okay. Okay. I won't do the math for your age. So. Well now getting back to and that's great.

I love to hear the the conversion story and the and the about how American Gospel was hopeful. I've you know I've I've had the opportunity to talk to some of the men who were who made that film made those films and and just I'm thankful.

I am for the work that they've done and and you know I I hope to in a small way through the podcast and other things to contribute to the same thing in that is that's getting Christ's message out there and in the way that the people received stuff now through media and things like that.

So I definitely see a place for it and good filmmaking is a is valuable I believe so. But but you guys with steadfast women now you and your sister and is it you guys are the main?

We are the only two the only two. Yeah.

Your ministry is not a ministry of video or podcasting your ministry is through writing and through Instagram. Yep. Yes, we have a website. Sorry. Go ahead. No, no, I cut you off. No, you're fine. I was gonna say so tell me about the how the ministry Functions and and the purpose and how it works.

Instagram, Resource Vetting, and Helping Women Find Solid Churches

So we are.

Mainly what we do is on Instagram and there are several Instagram accounts who do what we do. Christian women trying to equip other Christian women with resources to Help them walk a life worthy of the calling they have received, you know to be wives and to be mothers.

And so a lot of what we do is resources. So there may be a book that I read and I'll pull out quotes or I'll put it on a recommended list. Subjects in the culture like things that are coming that parents need to be aware of concerning our kids because even though we don't do teenagers anymore like we still have an ear out for things that parents may be need to wear a be aware of.

But really it's the resource thing because a lot of moms they're working or they're homeschooling or they're raising kids. And we just have an interest in helping them find resources and weed through resources.

So they don't waste their time on fluff or stuff. That's not going to be edifying to them things that aren't theologically rich. Books to avoid for their like they may be looking for books for their children and it's like oh.

Have you heard about this website called, you know, good book mom. She Vets books for you so you don't have to waste a whole bunch of money on books that once you start reading them you throw in the trash because You realize they don't have biblically correct things to show your children.

And so it's connecting women with things like that. It's doing different stories. I don't know if you're familiar with Instagram, but doing Instagram stories and highlights I will tell you this I.

My social media is a little weird. Okay, as you know, you know me through the funny videos. Yeah that started that started on tick-tock on accident. Oh, okay church member. I didn't even have tick-tock.

Okay, remember saw my video that I made the little denominational video and he put it we were shooting. We're out of the shooting range on a Saturday at three o 'clock and he said well Let me put this video on.

I'll make a tick-tock for you. So he created. Okay. Okay posted it the next morning. He comes to church he goes have you seen. I said, I'll have tick-tock. I haven't seen yet. He said he got like 90 ,000 views in like a day the first video.

Wow, and it was like, okay. There we have something here something here. So so I started using that as a way I would do a funny video and then a serious video. Okay, and I would do a funny video and then it's something more like answering a Bible question.

Okay, sometimes it was about controversial things like women pastors. Okay, but I was using tick-tock. Okay, and I quickly got over a million, you know views and stuff and that and that was great. Yeah, that was neat but I Never used Instagram.

Okay, that's why I'm okay. So you're not as I have it now. But the only reason I have it is because Facebook and Instagram are connected. Okay, so if I post anything to Facebook if it's a picture it automatically post to my Instagram.

So I started getting Instagram followers, but I didn't even know.

Okay, so one of the things with Instagram is you can create store you can do Instagram stories. Which you can also turn into a highlight series. And so the highlights would be what most of the people would look like.

Our book rest. Recommendations are all in a highlight. Bible teachers. We recommend her in a highlight people. We do not recommend people following her in a highlight. We have one on elevation and why to avoid them.

Hillsong and why to avoid them to on Bethel and how they're just wreaking havoc and so many churches.

Be curious to hear your thoughts on that. Maybe we can get back to that. Okay but because I obviously have a lot of thoughts about Hillsong and Bethel and things like that and I've seen a lot of the Divide that that has brought into churches.

Mm-hmm. So that's that's cool that you you you know that you have that but continue.

Yeah, so those are the types of things that you would find if you kind of swapped through our Instagram youth ministry. We have one on youth ministry. Is it even should we even have youth ministry because Sarah and I once we both kind of distance ourselves from youth ministry when we started seeing Problems in the church like we realize youth group culture is one of the things that keeps the wheels of false conversion spinning.

Because because of how. So many of them and it's not people want to pigeonhole you. Okay I'm sure there's some groups that you know that are youth ministries that are done fine and people like, you know John MacArthur has a youth ministry at his church great.

I'm so glad they have a youth ministry. We're not really saying that they should or shouldn't exist. But we want parents to be paying attention to what is going on and we've had people they were. You know they're like thank you for empowering us to make the decision to actually pull our child out of you the youth group at our church because we See the fruit there is not good and it's like they just needed somebody to encourage them that that's your child.

And even if you have a great like expositor who gets up in this, you know as a senior pastor on Sunday. And brings the word your children are still being taught in youth group. And what are they being taught?

And so once the parents started paying attention, they're like we don't like anything. This guy is teaching and it's like well. Then you need to pull him out. That's your child. He's your responsibility.

He's not the church's responsibility. And so those are different types of I mean and they a lot of them are controversial. I mean we get anytime you talk about any of those subjects within Christendom.

You're gonna get a lot of pushback. And so we have but you know, praise the Lord. There's also been an audience that has wanted to know those things and to be more reverent in those things and you know a lot of conversations we've had so many messages of people like when we talk about the music from false churches be like How do I approach my pastor and I'm like, oh, well, this is a great video that Doreen Virtue did with a pastor.

And so man, he has a pastor's heart watch this before you even go down that road. So kind of counseling them because they don't have unfortunately other people in their life. And then we've had some churches that praise the Lord have gotten rid of all of that music just because they had somebody push the question and then unfortunately we've had people message us back and say it was an absolute disaster and I'm not sure we could stay at this church and I'm like, but it's it's generally women.

I don't really interact with me and I'm like, well, how's your husband feel? You need to go with your husband. Does he have a wiser elder in his life? You know that type of thing to get them in with good counsel.

But yeah, a lot of our Instagram stuff has Has gotten a lot of blowback from people and followers of those churches and youth ministers and whatever else you want to go to but Everything we do is biblically based like if the Bible says it I'm just not embarrassed by what it says and Yeah, the person has to deal with the consequences of that.

We have stuff. Of course, I'm an abortion abolitionist. So we have several things on like pro-life versus the abolition movement that people can go through. So we've gained followers from that. We've lost followers from that.

You know, it's just I don't know I feel like our the honest youth pastor. I know you've had him on your show. He he'd used to do this thing called follower art where it would Instagram shows you how many followers you gain and lose over a certain Amount of time so he would turn it into artwork and have like a boat sailing down this side or somebody flying up if you gain Followers, so that's just what the Instagram world.

That's life is like well.

Family-Integrated Church, Youth Ministry, and Biblical Priorities

Before we go away from this I do want to just mention the The youth group thing because you know, our church is family integrated. Yes, and if you notice that ours is morning yeah, you know you walk in and there's little babies and there's teenagers and everybody's together and you know, that was a that was a Committed choice we made Back at well, I guess been about 13 years ago.

It's awesome. But. And and and I I like you I'm not gonna say, you know, if a church has a youth group that's wrong. I'm not gonna condemn another church for doing it. I do think there are things that can be done correct and we do have like age-graded Sunday school.

You know, like I I actually have our young people and I do the Sunday school for the young people. Okay, because two of our elders do Two other Sunday school classes. So I do the young people so I thought you know, I have you know I can see value in certain things, but I Did get a lot of pushback when I first began to try to encourage us to move away from the youth group model.

Mm-hmm, and the biggest pushback that I got was, you know, well, I was saved in youth group. Yeah, or you know cuz like, you know, I don't if you ever heard al moeller al moeller will say, you know One of the most important men in his life was one of the youth pastors.

And so so I you know, I've had to I've had to Manage that because some people come and say well, where's do you think? Well, we don't have it. Well, what in the world? I know yeah. You don't care about kids and That's a that's a horribly myopic view.

Yeah to say that because you don't have a youth group. You don't care about kids. It's just no we we want every father To to understand his role as a discipler. We want every mother to understand her role as as a discipler and and and that doesn't mean everybody has to homeschool.

But a lot of our people do homeschool. Yeah. Yeah, we're homeschool family. Yeah. Yeah yeah, and and and you know, we we try to lead and guide and say these are the things that we have found that that God has used and and it's funny how Relatively young the youth group.

Model is in church history about the 1970s. Yeah, that's when they first started actually hiring staff. Because it was all used to be para church. It was just all para church and that you'd have young life doing stuff for you to have like everything was outside of the church.

Sure, and in the 1970s they started because part of our highlight that we have on our Instagram actually goes to the history of youth ministry. Have you've seen the film divided? That church and so there's a you know clips from that that we use and things like yeah.

I remember when that came out I remember looking at that film and it was about the same time I think that we because I probably I guess it's like 2012. Maybe that's when it came out about that time. Well, when we changed our name, we used to be forced Christian Church, and then we became a sovereign grace family church in 2011.

Okay, we didn't add the name family church for the purpose of being family integrated. We okay that wasn't the the reasoning we wanted Sovereign Grace because we wanted to identify with a reformed. Okay theology, but family church.

There was already a Sovereign Grace Baptist Church Okay in town and we didn't want to be Sovereign Grace Bible Church not because we're against the Bible obviously, but a lot around here a lot of Bible churches are King James only okay, and if you identify yourself as Bible and you don't use King James only then you're gonna get a lot.

Okay, a lot of hate. Yeah, so we didn't want to do that either and. So we chose family church because we do believe and I hope you saw this this morning. We believe church is family. Yeah, like our people.

I love our people and our people love me very well. They love my family well. And so we had always thought of the church like a family and so we said we're gonna go with family church because that's what We believed it was well that ended up opening up a door.

Okay family integration that was different. It was like God used that to say well. You call yourself this yeah, you know, but let's see. Let's see you work it out and you know real way because I was a youth pastor.

Okay before I became so many.

I think that's another reason that people have a hard time with this subject because I know there was one. Okay, he was a senior pastor, but had been a youth pastor and he was not happy as somebody local.

You know that can just like call me up. You know cuz like what are you doing Susan? And he said you made it act like youth ministry shouldn't even be a thing. Yeah, and I was like I Mean if that's what you drew from the highlight.

Then maybe you need to search the scriptures and seek this out because I don't say in the highlight. What anybody should do. I just go over the history what what if you look out in the culture? Youth groups are doing yeah, and so this is what they're doing.

Parents pay attention pastors pay attention. To see if your church is doing that do you want your kid to be a part of it? Do you not make an informed decision about what's happening at your church? And we had to leave a church one time and was family integrated on the top of the list.

No, but I was like man. I really hope we find a family integrated church. Sure. So it's not when somebody like if they asked me well, what do you recommend when looking for a church? I mean family integrated really isn't even probably in the top four or five.

Yeah, but it would be on my list. But if you can't find a family integrated church, but you found a really solid biblical church then go to that church. You know and it and maybe don't let your kids participate if you don't like what's going on if you want them in the service.

With you keep them with you if you want them to. You know don't like what's going on. Maybe talk to the youth pastor. Maybe talk to the senior pastor. Is this really wise because somebody may have never ever just questioned.

Yeah, because some of that started in the 70s. Okay now that's what 50 years ago. More than 50 years ago. So you're talking about like half a lifetime or most of most of a lot of people's lifetime that they've not known anything else.