WWUTT 1685 Q&A Downloading Podcasts, All is Meaningless, Resurrection of Saints

When Ecclesiastes chapter 1 says everything is meaningless, is everything really meaningless?

What does it mean in Matthew chapter 27 when there were saints who were raised with Christ? The answer is when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible study in the word of Christ. For He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Tell your friends about our ministry at www .wutt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Well, this is When We Understand the Text. That's Becky said at the top of the program.

Yeah. And on Friday we take questions from the listeners. You can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

This first one comes from Scott. We know Scott. He sends us a lot of good stuff. Oh, yeah,

Scott. Hi, Scott. We have a doormat in front of our house that has When We Understand the Text on it.

And it was a wonderful gift from Scott. Yes. So he says, first, even though you're not on Facebook, I copy and paste a lot of your quotes from Twitter with your name, and I also do it for Tom Buck.

Aw, cool. So Tom Buck's, I think he is on Facebook, though. Tom Buck's got a

Facebook. I wonder if he's just not as active. Yeah, I don't know. I know he showed me stuff that he's posted on Facebook before.

Yes. Yeah. He's on Facebook. He's on there somewhere. But I don't know. Anyway. Scott goes on to say, second,

I have had the great joy of downloading the What Podcast for many years.

It's been seven years now. As of 2022. We've been doing this for seven years.

And placing them on CDs. Aw. They are then sent in an 80

CD case to a brother in Christ that does not have an Internet connection. And he is thoroughly blessed.

That is awesome. That is terrific, Scott. Thank you. Thank you. He mentioned a couple of other podcasts in there, too.

Not just ours, but like Five Minutes in Church History with Stephen Nichols. Okay.

That's a good one. But you could probably fit all of his five minutes. On one

CD. On one CD. That's right. Yeah. I've listened. I've caught that one a few times.

I listen to RefNet a lot. I probably listen to RefNet more than anything else. So, just download the RefNet app.

That way you can just pull it up and hit play. I don't have to think about, what do I want to listen to today? Right. Just listen to whatever RefNet's playing.

And so, Five Minutes in Church History with Stephen Nichols will come on. That's cool. So, I catch it on there.

I used to download it, but I think I'll binge listen to it like every three months.

Yeah. Sounds like you. Yeah, that's right. I'll just get through the whole thing in a couple of hours, and then

I'm caught up. But thank you for doing that, Scott. That is a blessing. And we've heard stories of people that have done something like that, or they've put it on a flash drive and they've given it to a prisoner in prison who's able to listen to the

Bible studies that way or something like that. It's neat, the stories that we've heard about how the podcast gets copied and distributed, or even the videos.

Like, there was somebody that emailed me, this was last year sometime, and said, is it okay if I take the what videos and download them off YouTube and put them on a

DVD and distribute them at the local nursing home? Oh, that's cool.

Which, that was cool. So, I didn't hear from that guy again after that. But yeah, I mean, hey, take them.

Do whatever you want to with them. Except for charging. Yeah, don't sell them. Don't charge.

If you want to copy them and hand them out wherever, I don't care, just as long as you're not doing it to profit off of it for yourself.

We don't profit off of it, so you can't either. Right. Speaking of that, somebody did send us a wonderful gift via PayPal, and just attached a note to it.

It was like a night, a period, K -N -I -G -H -T. By the way, my wife's email is connected to the

When We Understand the text email, so she sees it, too. I do. It goes to her.

I told you I was going to be kicking that trash can out of there. Just kick the trash can. Kick the bucket.

It scared me. Right here, yeah. That's what that was, folks. I kicked the trash can.

That's not a euphemism for anything. I just kicked my trash can under my desk. Literally. What was

I saying? My email's attached to it, so I see it. When you send a gift and we get an email alert,

Becky sees it, too. Anyway, he just sent a gift and said, hey, it's for pizza or whatever you want. That's awesome.

In our family, that goes a long way. Yes. We love pizza. We love all of the donations.

Thank you. Thank you so much. For all of those that are mentioned and unmentioned. It goes to something.

The podcast costs a little over $100 a year. Web space costs something. And now

I'm messing with this app. And I've mentioned this. We've talked about this.

But I only just discovered that the package that I bought for the app, it's only on Android.

Yeah. So, don't fret yet, Apple users. Because we're investigating how it's going to look and if it's going to be worth it.

If it's worth it, yeah. If it's going to be worth the extra buku bucks. It's a lot more.

To put it on Apple. It's like five times more to put it on Apple than it is to put it on Android.

That's ridiculous. Yeah, thanks a lot, Apple. Appreciate that. So, I didn't realize that it was only

Android. I should have read the fine print. It was my own fault. But I have to buy the upgraded package in order for it to go to Apple as well.

So, I need to mess with it on an Android. I've got an old Android phone. I just need to plug it in and connect it to the

Internet. I haven't quite gotten approval on the app yet. But once it's there, I'll mess with it. If it looks good, if I think it's worth the investment,

I'm going to get some people to download the app on Android, play with it, tell me if they like it or not. Yeah.

And if it seems like something that people like, then... And easy to use. Right. You know, it's not more confusing and easier to go to the website kind of thing.

Yeah. Because there's always that, you know. I've had some apps. So, you can just, you know, get to the website from there.

So, the website. The website. Anyway, if anybody has an

Android, go ahead and look for it. Look for WWTT. Maybe it's already there and I just haven't looked and they haven't told me that it's available yet.

Yeah, I don't know. I'd be curious to know. But that's where you can find it. Only on Android at this point.

Look for the what app. WWTT. Alright, thank you, Scott, for that comment and appreciate you distributing the podcast.

This next one is about a recent episode of the podcast. This is from Amanda. She says,

Dear Pastor Gabe, I am really enjoying the series in Ecclesiastes. I think this is the first series of Ecclesiastes that I've listened to, but so far it's my favorite.

I can't tell if that's a joke or not. It sounds like a joke to me. Are you kidding?

Of course it's your favorite. It's the only one you've listened to. It just means that it's really good.

And she might listen to it again. Alright, if I'm missing the joke, Amanda, I'm sorry.

But I'm looking at that going, okay. Anyway, I was disappointed, she says, when you did chapter 3, verses 1 through 8, and you didn't sing the song

Turn, Turn, Turn by the Byrds. To every season, turn, turn.

Which I always thought, when I was a kid, I thought that was a pun. Oh, yeah? Because the band is called the

Byrds. To every season, turn, turn. Oh, yes. I never put that together.

Really? I thought it was a pun. I was like, that band's called the Byrds? And they're singing turn, turn, turn?

Yeah, well, you gotta migrate somewhere. Anyway, Amanda, I'm finding jokes that maybe you didn't even intend.

That's what I'm reading out of your email here. You've been reading from the Legacy Bible, and I've been following along in the

ESV. Both translations, in Ecclesiastes 1 -2, it says,

Vanity of vanities, all is vanity. But I remember being taught that Ecclesiastes begins, all is meaningless.

What translation is that? That's the NIV. The NIV begins, meaningless, meaningless, all is meaningless.

Amanda goes on, and how can we know what is excluded from the statement, everything is meaningless or everything is vanity, because surely

I believe that everything is not meaningless. Thank you for your faithfulness to the scriptures. I have learned so much.

So let me pull this up here. The Bible that I have open in front of me is only a New Testament. I did not prepare well for that.

So in Ecclesiastes 1 -2, vanity of vanities says the preacher, all is vanity.

What advantage does man have in all of his labor in which he labors, these three words are important, under the sun?

What advantage does man have in all of his labor in which he labors under the sun?

A generation goes, a generation comes, but the earth stands forever. The sun rises and the sun sets, and hastening to its place, it rises again.

The wind goes circling along, circular courses, the wind returns, the rivers go into the sea.

What are we talking about here? What's the picture of all of this? Where is this happening?

On Earth? Yeah, there you go, exactly. It was that easy a question. Trick question?

I was not joking like Amanda. I was really asking a question there. Yeah, all of this is on the earth.

So remember, everything under the sun. Everything in heaven is not meaningless. Right. Everything that happens in heaven is meaningful.

Hence you have. Or heavenly minded. Right, being heavenly minded, storing up your treasure in heaven.

For where your treasure is there, your heart will be also. Seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you.

That's from Matthew chapter 6. So it's also there in Matthew 6 that Jesus teaches us to pray, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

So the will of God is done in heaven. Let us see your will being done on earth. May we see it and understand it on earth as it is fully seen and understood in heaven.

That's the way that we would understand that. So in everything that is under the sun, everything that we do on earth is meaningless.

Everything that is done in heaven is meaningful. Now when

I say it's meaningless, because as Amanda, you pointed out, I don't believe that everything is meaningless. So when

I use that term or when the preacher uses that term in Ecclesiastes chapter 1, everything is vanity or everything is meaningless.

It means that the thing in and of itself doesn't really have any meaning. It doesn't really have any purpose to it.

It doesn't have eternal. It's not eternal in other words. It doesn't lead to eternity.

You can love your spouse. You can love your kids. You can be the most law -abiding citizen, but if you have not

Christ, none of that is going to lead you to eternal life. You would surely say that all of that is meaningful, that there is meaning and intention and purpose and goodness and all of those things, being a good person, loving others.

You would say there's good things in that, certainly. Doing a job well done and being satisfied with that work that you do, but it's not going to lead you to eternal life.

As the preacher is dwelling on over and over again, we've been through three chapters thus far.

We've got nine more to go. But in these three chapters as he's dwelling on these things, he's not finding any real eternal significance in the things that he is doing.

Now, as I talked about yesterday, on yesterday's episode, we were in Chapter 3, that everything that we do does have an eternal significance to it.

That's not the way that Solomon is considering those things though. The preacher, when he's looking at everything that is around him, he's seeing that everything has a definite beginning and everything has a definite end.

Right, and it doesn't go with you. You don't get to take any of it anywhere. Right. What happens to the wicked man is the same thing that happens to the righteous man.

Both die. Both go into the ground. Right. So he's looking at what happens in the earth and he doesn't find any inherent meaning in it, nor does it have any eternal significance.

If you're just looking at stuff the way that we can experience it or interact with it on earth in our lifetimes.

Right. Now, we do know from the scriptures that stuff does have eternal significance. And the preacher does get to that when we get to Chapter 3, and we're going to see mentions of that later on as well.

But just the substance. Just wait for the buildup. Yeah, that's right. This is the buildup. The substance in and of itself, there's nothing eternally significant about it.

Just because you have it doesn't mean you have eternity. Right. But we do know that there's something eternally significant, because as we read in Chapter 3,

God has placed eternity in the hearts of men, but they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end, which is

Chapter 3, Verse 11. So there's something eternal there. There is something eternally significant about it, but what is it when this just starts here and it ends there, and it doesn't continue on?

Anyway, yeah. So we kind of carry on from there as we read on in the book of Ecclesiastes. Yeah.

But meaning and purpose is only going to be found in Christ. Right. What is the meaning and the purpose of this?

You can only find that meaning and purpose if you know Christ, and then you know that Romans 8, 28, all things work together for good for those who love

God and are called according to his purpose. And those good things that are wrought by the circumstances that we go through, good or bad, the good thing that we get from that is being made more in the image of Christ.

Yes. As Romans 8, 29 goes on to explain. Right. So there you go. Anything else to add to that?

I can't think of anything. All right. Well, thank you, Amanda, for your question. It's a good question.

It's a good question. This next one is from Lisa. She says, I have a question regarding Matthew 27, 52 to 53.

It says that the bodies of many holy people came out of the graves, but not all holy people.

And also, when they are resurrected, is it with the body of the final resurrection?

So they're glorified bodies, in other words. I want to understand with the correct understanding and not presume, because it's not biblical to do that.

Looking forward to hearing from you. Blessings, Lisa. All right. Let's go to Matthew 27 in verse 52.

Now, keep in mind what's happening here is the crucifixion of Christ. That's what we read about in Matthew 27.

And this is right after Jesus has cried out with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.

In verse 50. Verse 51. And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook, and the rocks were split.

So the curtain that separated the holy of holies from the rest of the temple was torn, showing that God did not dwell in temples made by human hands, but he would dwell in those who were believers in the

Lord Jesus Christ, and we would become a temple of the living God. Right. So our access to God is no longer through the high priest.

That was just once a year when he walked into the holy of holies, but our access to God is through Jesus Christ. Right.

So that's what we see happening there at the death of Christ with him finishing that work and yielding up his spirit by his death on the cross.

So now verse 51. Well, no, that was 51. The veil of the sanctuary was torn. Okay. Now verse 52.

And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

And then it goes on to say, Now the centurion and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, they became very frightened and said,

Truly this was the son of God. Now that statement there was with regards to the earthquake that happened that ripped the curtain in the temple from top to bottom.

That was not with regard to the resurrection of holy saints. Because as it says, that happened when

Jesus was raised. Right. So when he came out of the tomb, that was when many of these holy saints were raised out of the tomb as well.

And they go into the holy city. They go into Jerusalem and appeared to many.

Yes. That must have been quite a thing. Yeah. I think

I would have been frightened. Who are you? Well, my name is David. I was king in Jerusalem here about a thousand years ago.

And I'm here to tell you. Now I don't think that that was the case. Because in the sermon that Peter gives at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, he talks about we know where the body of David is.

So I don't think David was one that came out of the tomb and testified. So he was one that didn't.

Maybe one of the saints that did not rise. Now there is not much that's given to us here.

It's just two verses. This is the only gospel that mentions it. It's not in Mark, Luke, or John.

So we have this statement about when Jesus was raised. And we know that there was kind of an earthquake when

Jesus was raised as well. Tombs were opened. Many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised and coming out of the tombs.

They go into the holy city and they appear to many. So Jesus is raised. There's something else that happens in the midst of that with some other saints.

So those who believed God, they believed the promise of the coming of his son.

They were considered righteous. They believed by faith. It was credited to them as righteousness.

Just as it said of Abraham. So that's what's said of these individuals as well. When Jesus is raised, they're raised too.

Now I've heard a lot of different theories about this. But they're only theories. Because again, the text doesn't tell us much.

But we're getting a picture here of Christ's return. When Christ returns, the dead in Christ will rise first.

As it says in 1 Thessalonians 4. And then we who are alive who are left will be caught up together with him in the air.

And so we will always be with the Lord. Right. So we read there about the resurrection of the dead.

Okay. With Christ's first resurrection, there was a resurrection. And were they raised with their glorified bodies like Christ's glorified body?

Yeah. Were they just raised for a little while, went into the holy city, and then they went back in their tombs? I find that highly unlikely.

Yeah. I don't think that would be it. And in fact, here's my own theory.

I would believe that they ascended into heaven with Christ when he did 40 days later.

Well, it does say that they went and talked. Yeah. They went and testified. Yeah. So were they with Jesus testifying to others who saw them raised from the dead?

It's a little confusing to me that it's in the middle of the ripping of the curtain.

Curtain in the temple. You are out of it today. I am. Okay. So let me try to fast forward a little bit.

Okay. Or something. Anyway. Okay. So it's in the middle of the curtain talking about the curtain ripping and then the reaction to the curtain ripping.

Yes. It's in the middle of that. Right. Why is it there? That happens in Matthew occasionally.

Oh, okay. So Matthew just talks about something that's going to happen. Rabbit trail? Yeah. Is that what you call that?

No, it's an incredibly well -written book, very structured. He knows exactly what he's doing. But the emphasis at Christ's resurrection is

Christ. It's Christ rising from the dead because he's the one that conquered death. Right. The saints rising from the dead don't rise from the dead without Christ's resurrection.

Right. So he doesn't mix this in with Christ's resurrection in chapter 28. We're only to be focused on Christ there in Matthew 28.

So he mentions that here and it's just a quick mention. And it's really the only place, again, it's the only place in the gospels that comes up.

So there's a lot of questions about it. I've heard some teachers even say, I think Mike Licona was one of these guys.

Well, I better not say that because I know Mike Licona believes something funny about this.

Okay. I was reading from him years ago on that when he was talking about this particular passage. And I do agree that it's confusing and there's things we don't know about it.

But you can't just throw it out. Right. It's in the Bible. Yeah. There's definitely something that happens here.

There was a resurrection that happened with Christ's resurrection where some other saints came out and became a testimony to the resurrection to other people that were there in Jerusalem.

Right. It would have been crazy to witness. And we don't know what happened with those individuals after that.

Because Christ should be our focus. Yeah. Christ is the focus. Christ is the one who has conquered death. And so it's through Jesus Christ that we have resurrection from the dead.

Yes. By faith in Christ, we're raised from the dead. But if they came back in their regular bodies, that'd be really gross.

Well, yeah. They weren't raised like zombies. Well, that's what I'm saying. They had these.

So it had to be some sort of. It was definitely a restored body. Yes. Because otherwise, yeah, they're just dead.

That'd be weird. We have corpses that somehow get reanimated. And then we have zombies that are wandering around in Jerusalem. Right.

That wasn't it. Many of the bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.

This is exactly the same terminology that Paul uses in 1 Thessalonians 4. Those who have fallen asleep will be raised.

Right. And he also talks with the Thessalonians about as for those who have fallen asleep, we grieve, but not as those who have no hope.

Right. So our brothers and sisters in the Lord who die are going to be raised again.

So we refer to them as falling asleep, not really having died. And so that's the reference there as well.

They've fallen asleep. And they were raised when Christ was raised. They came out of the tombs after his resurrection, it says.

They entered the holy city and appeared to many. So first it was Christ's resurrection and then them. And then they go in the holy city and they witness to others.

And so I'm adding my theory on to that by saying I think they witnessed for 40 days just like Jesus did according to what's said in Acts 1.

And then when he ascended into heaven, they ascended with him. And we get kind of a mini rapture preview there.

Yeah. Before the big rapture that'll come later on. And my thoughts going around, you know, how they raised

Lazarus. No, not Lazarus. Was it Lazarus? Yeah, Lazarus was raised from the dead. And then who else was raised from the dead?

The guy who fell asleep while preaching? Well, yeah, Eutychus. I mean, there were several people.

Jesus raised a girl from the dead. Yeah, the girl. Peter raised Dorcas from the dead. And then the soldier came and asked him and said, you don't have to come to my house.

I already know that if you see me. Well, that was his servant was sick. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, OK. That was the centurion. Yes, that's what

I was thinking of. OK, so all these people, how they've recently passed away or are sick.

Then they, but obviously these have passed away. Well, Jesus raised from the tomb. Jesus and the apostles raised them from the dead, but they're going to die again.

Well, I know, I know. No, no, I'm not. I'm not correcting you. I'm saying, you know, that was a temporary resurrection.

True. True. But what I'm thinking is they weren't gone for very long. So everybody still,

I mean, it was impactful on the people around them. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Whereas some people who have passed away a long time ago is not as impactful.

Sometimes it depends on who they are, I guess. What? I don't know. Am I not making sense?

I kick the trash can again. I mean, if somebody is going to rise from the dead, it's going to be incredible no matter what.

Okay. Sure. Yeah. Are you going to believe them that they actually raised from the dead?

But if they have a restored body and they're kind of like glowing like what Jesus did, then sure,

I would believe them. Where did you get that Jesus was glowing? Wasn't he kind of like? You're thinking of the transfiguration.

Oh. I think we're. I need to quit. I mean, there's plenty of paintings.

I'm done. Yeah, there's plenty of paintings that will be like this bright light coming out of the tomb. I thought it described him as like this just brighter.

No, no, no. That's it. The transfiguration. Okay. Yeah. No, I think I really

I think you're just getting confused by the number of paintings that have depicted the resurrection. It could be, but I don't remember it being a picture.

I remember being like reading somewhere, but it might have been in a book. I don't know.

Yeah. I'm too tired. Sorry, guys. If I'm just royally confused, you just email

Gabe and he'll straighten you out. Right. And there's not. I mean, there's not a lot more that we can add to that, because, again, you know, and there are theologians that have pondered about these passages for years.

Oh, I'm sure. And still wondering. Because it's confusing. Right. There's not enough to it to really say this is what happened.

Yeah. So we're just all not supposed to know until we go on the other side.

And there, you know, one of the things that I've appreciated about learning from Voti Bakum, too, is he has no problem reading a passage to you and then going, what does this mean?

I don't know. Yep. And he'll say, it's okay. It is okay for us to not know.

Yeah. And he will be honest enough to say the text does not give us enough here to draw any conclusion one way or the other.

Right. So it can either be this or it can either be that. And, you know, he's a good teacher that will honestly say that.

That if somebody says to you, no, it definitely means that, I'm telling you it doesn't. Yeah. And we're talking about passages that aren't clear, like this one, like Matthew 27, 52 and 53.

Right. What is this picture? What all is happening here? We're not talking about passages.

You can't do that with any verse in the Bible. Right. Oh, we can't know what's going on here. No, there are plain statements.

Yes. That we can absolutely know what is being said there. But in this particular passage, we have very limited information.

I appreciate that about Vody, that he lands the plane and he's like, he just tells you it's straight. Yeah. This is.

You do that too, though. I appreciate that about you too. Well, good. I'm glad. That you just tell it straight.

Because obviously my brain makes enough mess of things. That's okay, babe.

Is it kids today? Is that where your brain fried? Yeah, it's been a rough day. Well, anyway, so there are different commentaries that have said different things.

There was a commentary I read that talked about Job potentially being one of those saints that was raised.

Yeah. Still, that's got to be speculative. I just don't understand where they would even get that from. Yeah. It would be some sort of tradition later on down the line, because it doesn't come from scripture that tells us that.

So we've got to be very, very careful, just like you're trying to be, Lisa, with understanding this passage, because it doesn't give us much.

But the. But the language that Matthew uses describes the same as I mean, not exactly the same, but similar to what

Christ did as well. Right. Yeah. Right. That he was raised and taught for 40 days.

Yeah. So I would assume like what you were saying is that it was about the same time.

And go ahead and fill in my blanks. I have a lot of blanks. You were trying and then the brain went.

And then it just went flat. It was just gone. I think that's a pretty good picture of how far we're going to get on this passage.

Because that's about it. So Lisa, sorry, that wasn't much more helpful than that.

But you can go to if you go to BibleHub .com, you type in Matthew 2752.

There will be several commentaries and click on comment at the top. So Matthew 2752, hit enter in your options across the top, click comment, and that'll give you several commentaries, old trustworthy commentaries.

They're pretty lengthy on just these two verses. But that'll give you some a little more insight, potential explanation of what's happening.

They go through the different theories, but just recognize there that they're only theories. Right. Because the scripture doesn't tell us more than what we have in just those two short verses.

One last question here. This one comes from Jeremy. Greetings what? Thank you for all of your videos. I have an idea for a what video

I would like to see. Ever since I was a kid, I have heard that there was no subject

Jesus talked about more than money. I know this can't be true, but how often did he talk about it?

Where does money rank among the subjects that Jesus did talk about? I think that would make a great video.

Yeah, it would. Thanks in advance, Jeremy. You know what, Jeremy? I'm going to work on that. See if I can get that done between this week and next.

And when we get back to the podcast next week, I'll try to figure that out. I'm sure somebody's done this, so I don't have to do the work myself.

But figuring out where money ranks in the subjects, the different things that Jesus has talked about.

I'm going to look that up. We'll talk about it next week. How does that sound? Sounds great. If anybody wants to add to the questions we'll be answering next week, you can send them to whenweunderstandthetextatgmail .com.

Don't forget to search for that app if you're an Android user. W -W -U -T -T. And if it's on there, très bien.

But if not, I'll see what the holdup is. All right, let's pray. All right, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the time that we have together.

Being in the Word of God, understanding things that you have spoken, you have revealed to us in your

Word, in the Scriptures, in the Bible. And I pray that we don't take these things lightly. We want to comb the

Scriptures. We want to understand even difficult passages to understand like this one in Matthew 27.

Or understanding what the preacher meant in Ecclesiastes when he said that everything is meaningless.

We know that everything does have meaning and purpose. For you even made the earth to be filled, not to be formless and void.

And so I pray that in all that we do, we give glory to God and we continue and endure in faithfulness unto

Christ until the day of his return. When the dead in Christ will rise, and then those who are left will be caught up with them in the air, and we will forever be with the