The Wokeness Continues: Grove City College Update

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Hey everyone, welcome to the

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Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. This is an episode about Grove City College.

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It's somewhat listener generated. I had a request to review a particular podcast that was recorded at Grove City College, which

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I'd like to go through at least a few of the clips. It's about an hour and I think 17 minutes or so, so we can't go through the whole thing, but I'll bring you to some choice sections so you can get the gist of what was being communicated there.

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And really this relates to a controversy that's been ongoing since I believe it was early last fall when, or maybe it was late summer,

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I think it was early fall when I found out about it. But the issue was and is still whether or not

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Grove City College and the administration there approved of critical race theory being taught in the chapels, being taught in some course content, and then also being taught to the

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RAs I believe on campus, and so three major different areas. Now, this has taken on a life of its own, interestingly enough, and the way that this has gone down, broadly speaking, is the administration at Grove City College and many of the professors, including

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Carl Truman, who's a very prominent professor there, have put up the defense shields and tried to either minimize to the point that essentially they're bending truth, they're lying, what's happened there, and claiming that there really isn't a problem and that it's these haters, it's these horrible people, mostly on the internet, who have made a problem where there was no problem.

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And it's very similar to the way Southern Baptist schools have reacted when they've been called out on the carpet.

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Now, the difference, I think, is that in Southern Baptist circles, there is such a strong guild mentality, allegiance to the

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Southern Baptist Convention, reliance on the Southern Baptist Convention, not wanting to rock the boat in the Southern Baptist Convention because that could prohibit someone in the future from getting paid positions and all the accolades that come with that, that the wagons are circled not just in the school, but also in the denomination and among all the other entities.

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And so just about. So there is a concerted effort right away to identify and disparage or try to marginalize somehow anyone who would speak out against or even just shine a light and say this is happening at one of their institutions of higher learning.

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And so it's kind of like antibodies viewing the person who says this as the virus, the whistleblower is the virus.

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There's a threat and let's all gang up and then others see that example and then they're really hesitant to say anything.

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And that's kind of it's very it's intimidation driven. And within the

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SBC, the SBC is basically a big bubble. It's not people outside the

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SBC aren't necessarily as astute on SBC politics or even interested in that kind of thing.

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And so trying to reform from the inside is almost impossible. That's the conclusion I've come to. It's just about impossible to to do that from within the denomination.

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And there's probably a variety of other factors I could talk about that also lead me to think that.

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But with Grove City, it's a little different. It's a smaller school and there is a connection to political conservatism.

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At least there has been historically. In fact, I consider going to Grove City College for undergrad.

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It was one of those schools that prided itself on not taking federal funds. I believe there's only two.

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I think it's Grove City College. And then also with the College of Michigan Hillsdale, I believe those are the two that don't do that.

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And so they they had a reputation for being not just Christian, but also politically conservative. But they're supposed to be both.

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And so I think because that's a larger group of people and they don't have the same necessarily allegiance to Grove City College, the brand, unless maybe you went there or you you're on the you're a donor or something like that.

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You might have some allegiance. But broadly speaking, political conservatives aren't like they don't rely on Grove City College for any kind of privileges that they would need.

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And if they said anything, they would get canceled. There's there's room for saying negative things, at least if you're outside the institution, which many of the people who have said something are.

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And and so I think that is a different dynamic. I think the other thing is that Grove City College itself doesn't have all the resources that the

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Southern Baptist Convention has to try to fight something like that. And so the logical thing,

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I've said this from the beginning, the logical thing is just to to be honest about where you were wrong. People mess up, people make mistakes and admit those things.

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But instead, because they've been so defensive and they've they've in various ways attacked, at least members of the administration attacked people who have just pointed out the truth of the situation, it has wound up in now where it's it's totally it's just it's messy.

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It's just totally messy. And it's created all kinds of doubt and mistrust and instability that didn't ever need to be there.

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And this is, in my opinion, this is just on Grove City College. This is they could have avoided a lot of this, but they for whatever reason, and perhaps pride is the motivation here that, you know, we wouldn't make mistakes.

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We're professionals. I don't know fully what all the motives are. That's the one that the only one that seems to make sense of their behavior in my mind, because it's so it just comes across as so arrogant.

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But that's that that's where we are now, where the people who see clearly and say, well, I saw the clips,

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I seen the the poster, I've seen evidence here that suggests or at least proves actually that Grove City College has had some compromise in this area.

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Now they don't trust the administration. And so this is it's a messy situation. So I talk about it. Well. Number one,

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I've talked about it before, so it's just a continuation of a previous discussion. Number two, I think this is a place where change can happen more easily than an

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SBC school or maybe some of the other schools that have been challenged on this. I think there there there is a potential for leveraging the the outside previous or what was and still is, to some extent, the support that Grove City College had, the donors, the reputation they had.

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I think there is a way perhaps with Grove City College to actually reform the college. And it's let's be honest, it's a test case.

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American reformer Megan Basham, the Daily Rioter, you know, both of these institute, these entities came out and said something.

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And that's pressure that an SBC school hasn't really gotten from outside. They haven't had the daily wire going after Southeastern or something like that.

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So it's more it's a different kind of pressure. It's more pressure. And and there's there's an investigation as well.

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So I just I think that they're taking this as bad as the response has been.

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They're taking this a little more seriously. And I think people are watching, myself included, to see what actually happens.

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Is is reform possible at at what was supposed to be one of the most conservative schools in the country?

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Colleges is reform even possible there. And if it is, that's an encouraging thing, I think, that, OK, maybe we can learn from this and others can can go and try to reform their schools, maybe in a similar way.

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Maybe it looks different. I don't know. But it's it we haven't seen a lot of we haven't seen a lot of reform because the real virus is not the people who are saying there's a problem.

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In fact, those people from everything I understand, most of those people, if not all, they love the school. I've been talking to people from within the school at times who love the school and they just they care about it.

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They don't want to see it go down this path. And the virus isn't those people. The virus is the teaching they've allowed to take root there.

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And some of the people that they have invited to come to chapel and speak and some of the people they're employing even there currently who are advocating these kinds of things, if that's if there's a threat, that's the threat.

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And so that's anyway, that's that they may not be a threat to the institution in the minds of the administrators, but they actually are.

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They and more importantly, the institution doesn't really matter as much as the truth and the kingdom of God.

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And they should, I would think, at a Christian school, they should have more allegiance to Christianity than they do to the institution, whatever that is, that that's going to burn.

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Right. That's not something that we take into eternity. Of course, the impact of an institution certainly has eternal effects, but the institution is not the one that we should have allegiance to.

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Primarily, it's the Lord Jesus Christ and then his truth. And we don't compromise on that.

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That that's that's where I'm coming down on this. So I just want to give you an update and hopefully this helps to maybe encourage some of you, but also to expose some things that need exposing.

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And the speech that I'm going to take clips from or the podcast episode, it doesn't have to be

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Grove City. This is representative of what is going on at a lot of Christian institutions and schools. And so I think it might be helpful from that standpoint, even if you don't care about what's happening in Grove City.

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Well, maybe this is happening in a school near you. And so reviewing it might might help that example.

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And how would you respond? Right. That's a question that often gets asked. So I'll show you in some ways maybe how

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I would respond or how I would think through some of the words you're about to hear. So first, let's go through a trip down memory lane.

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This is a an account on Twitter called Old McConnell. There's actually another account and that account is called

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CRT at GCC. Both of these are on Twitter. And I don't know if they have links on other social media websites because I really don't like using

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Twitter. But I'm pretty sure that this is the I'm pretty sure that this is the the the best place, at least that I know of, to find updates on these things.

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I know Josh Abatoy at the American Reformer will often talk about this issue as well. But here's what Old McConnell, this

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Twitter account, stated about this issue. A lot has happened over the past five months, Ree, the

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Grove City College controversy, but one document tells the story in a nutshell. GCC President McNulty's response to the critical race theory petition.

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This thread revisits that statement in light of what we know now. And I think this is 100 percent right. I did a whole podcast on President McNulty's response to the petition that parents had.

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And it was horrible. It was just horrible. It was insulting. It was it just wasn't true.

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It was terrible. And in light of what's come out, because what's come out now is, well, you know, hey, nothing to see here.

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And then people are finding, oh, there's all this this stuff over here to see. And there's this over here to see. And there's and all kinds of things are coming out.

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I haven't covered all of them, but I'll cover one of them today. And so this has promoted more mistrust.

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This is this has really shown that President McNulty's defense was was really poor, poorly chosen words and a bad strategy.

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So here's the trip down memory lane. Reminder concerned parents frustrated by campus programs that didn't match the college's state admission and advertised image launched a public petition that received 478 signatures in a week.

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McNulty's response, the president there hasn't aged well as combative tone further antagonized the petitioners, which guaranteed a prolonged dispute.

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And his pronouncements against Grove City College were gradually disproven by additional evidence.

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McNulty began by stating why he has decided to issue a formal response before receiving the petition.

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He says the petition included misinformed assertions and that that unfairly threatened the reputation of Grove City College.

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This statement implies, number one, the parents don't know what they're talking about. Number two, their actions are hurting the college's reputation.

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This unnecessarily placed McNulty in opposition to the parents and suggested bad faith on their part.

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I'm going to stop here. This is what's going on, not just at Grove City or at Christian institutions. This is what is happening all over this country.

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In fact, even tonight in the local school board in town over from me is having a whole discussion about a book that was in the school's library that fortunately this particular high school decided to get rid of.

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But now there's pushback and now and other districts have decided to keep this book. And and this kind of thing is happening all over.

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And often the school administration is saying nothing to see here and the parents and they're placing themselves against the parents.

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And that's it's a losing position. It's a losing. It's just bad. But but President McNulty has done the same thing that these secular administrators have done and principals at high schools and colleges that are mostly high schools, really, that are secular.

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So it's interesting to me to see this dynamic going on here. Next, McNulty lists

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Grove City College's vision, mission and values to demonstrate the college isn't capitulating to cultural headwinds. He doesn't mention that two significant phrases,

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Christian worldview and conservative values, were just removed from the statements. See, I don't even know about this.

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This is new to me. So, like I said, there's there's little things popping up all over the place, like, hey, why, why did you remove those those terms from the mission statement?

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McNulty also states that humans are made in the image of God and should not be defined by ideological categories. Additional evidence shows the campus program officers named in this statement did, in fact, define students by ideological categories.

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He says next. This section, this next section strongly implies that the parents' petition is an attack based on mis -impressions, partial reports, hearsay rumors and other unreliable information.

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So it's accusing the parents that they're bearing false witness. McNulty then avoids real issues by answering questions not asked.

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Petitioning, the petition was concerned with critical presentation with uncritical, I should say, presentation of CRT and wokeness.

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McNulty defends Christian engagement and social issues. He quotes Karl Truman, who later uses the same tactic by arguing

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Grove City College isn't fully woke. And I read some of those to you. They were terrible, absolutely terrible. It just for someone who is apparently as smart as Karl Truman, it's either you can only have really two two options.

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Either you're you're being disingenuous with the truth or you're ignorant. And ignorance is just it's a hard pill to swallow.

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It's like this is the institution you work for. Like, how can you know so little about and be so sure of so many erroneous things about the institution you're at when you're so good on things outside that institution?

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That's a bad thing. It goes on. It says the previous section essentially implied that parents are liars who didn't handle their concerns in a

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Christian way. At this point in the statement, one expects McNulty to present unassailable evidence to back such a strong rebuke to the parent's character and claims.

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Instead, what follows is a selective defense that addresses narrow points to give the impression that no CRT problem exists, but leaves out important context indicating otherwise.

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For example, McNulty says CRT was never mentioned or advocated in chapel. Now, here's actually it's quoting to it's linking to a montage of different chapel speakers that I put together.

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And it says Tisby, Jamar Tisby's talk was about was a two was part of a larger two week program on social justice.

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And one of the chaplains called for students to join the resistance. It's horrible, by the way.

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If you watch this whole thing, you'll just see, wow, OK, yeah. Like race theory was in the chapel. McNulty next says there is a significant amount of misunderstanding about the office of multicultural education initiatives.

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Later, he admits that the involvement in our trainings, that they were involved in our trainings and the event focused on white privilege also discovered.

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And they have some screenshots here. In fact, look, check this out. There's a poster. Let's talk about race series, white people, a documentary.

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Come and join and watch with us from the office of multicultural education and initiatives. Which if you go, you can watch that on YouTube.

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It's it's not a good documentary. McNulty says Diversity Council only focused on recruiting minority students and isn't operational.

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Yet the college's own press release says that it was established to broaden perspectives and enrich campus culture.

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This is the same thing, by the way, happened at Southeastern with Kingdom Diversity Initiative. And that's it was the defense, too.

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It's like, well, we're just helping out disenfranchised students. That's all it is. In fact, Danny Aiken says in this book on racism that he compares himself to his mom.

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His mom would give a student a ride who was black. And this was years.

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This is when he was a kid. And someone asked, why did you give that student a ride? I said, well, because he needed a ride. And Danny says, well, that's why we put up kingdom diversity.

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Because some people, they, they need a ride basically, which of course is totally different. It's not on the basis of needing a ride that you're because, because if it was that it would be economics driven or, you know, it's, it's instead on the basis of your, your race, but then also whether or not you're going to be an activist.

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Cause I've seen the questions that are asked, you have to promote diversity on campus.

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Or at least prove that you, you have a history of promoting diversity. So it's not enough to be black or Hispanic or Asian.

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You have to show that you've, you've promoted diversity in your life. And that's what they're looking for.

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But it's beyond that they, they produce podcasts and host events and they have money for all kinds of things. Uh, that's, it's the same thing at Grove city college, their, their office that does has a similar function.

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It's not just about giving scholarships away. It's, it's about, uh, promoting an agenda.

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Absolutely. So, um, next McNulty sidesteps CRT activism, a course education to 90 stating academic leadership will address the issue on a case by case.

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Basics basis books by Kendi and D 'Angelo remain in the spring 2002, 22 installment with co -instructor and, uh,

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Cedric Lewis, Cedric Lewis claims he hasn't changed a thing. So they are teaching at Grove city college right now.

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And one of the courses white fragility and how to be an anti -racist. These are both critical race theory books. McNulty concludes by highlighting

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Western civilization requirement in Grove city college's core curriculum and actuality, the crime that was recently reduced in the entire core is under review by a committee, including many people involved in the

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CRT controversy parents petition actually understated the CRT problem at Grove city college, uh, question was

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McNulty unaware of these incidents or did he knowingly display downplay the issues and chastise parents by for publicly identifying them.

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Uh, McNulty concludes with more conciliatory tone. Uh, the parents are collaborators who share an unwavering commitment to the college's mission.

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That is difficult to square with his earlier combativeness. One wonders how the statement might have read if this was his approach throughout it,

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McNulty had engaged concerned parents as partners who wanted what's best for the kids and Grove city college.

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The CRT issues might have been resolved quick and positively here's hoping that the groove city college board can write the ship, a formal apology to parents would be a good start.

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And that's, I think the big thing. That's the big thing. You can't just say you have to admit that there's something went wrong.

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That, that even if it's slight in your mind, you have to admit it as administrators, say we goofed or we weren't aware or something has to, you have to apologize to now, because now the parents have, they've been sinned against, they've been mischaracterized.

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They've been, they've been lied about in this characterization by Paul McNulty. They need to be apologized to.

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Uh, they had legitimate concerns. Those concerns are rooted in objective facts and those who should know the most about this situation, the president and those at the school are the one the very ones, uh, who seem to be either the most ignorant of it or the ones willing to cover it up.

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So it corruption and CRT, in my mind, they just go hand in hand. I I've seen this over and over and over.

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So, uh, what do we do about all this? What do we, uh, and the, the real,

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I believe there's actually my, um, from the last I checked, there was a, an investigation that's currently,

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I think it's still ongoing. I think the board is investigating just to see, Hey, were there problems?

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Is there anything to this petition? The parents put out. So pray for that. Uh, we'll see what happens.

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I wanted to introduce to you something else though. And this is what I was asked to review. Uh, this is a podcast put out, um, by let's see here.

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This is, I guess it must be a club on campus. Um, let me see if I can,

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I should have had this queued up here. I thought, uh, for some reason that all the, the info was there.

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I think it's on the CRT at GCC. I think they have a whole thing on it. Yeah, it's right here.

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Uh, okay. So this is a podcast at Grove city college called one story by, uh,

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Ariana Nelson now, and I don't know whether or not this had the sanction of the school. I'm assuming it must have, uh, because they, they are holding events.

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So it's either a club that sponsored it or maybe the campus itself. It's probably a club, but they, they, I mean, she remarks at the beginning, they had a big crowd there and they're at Grove city college and they're talking about Grove city college, broadly speaking.

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So, uh, this, this took place at the college. Uh, and what's, what's important to all this is, uh,

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Chris Merrick happens to be the assistant director of residence life, the resident and the resident director of Kettler hall in resident life.

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So this is someone who is employed by Grove city college working there, uh, with, uh, the,

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I guess it would be the RAs and I believe, yeah, Christopher America is one of the ones in that montage speaking in chapel who really put some pro

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CRT type stuff out there. Now here's a longer podcast and I want to play for you, uh, some clips from this podcast and we'll review them as we go, because these are indicative representative of what we're hearing, um, around us and what we have heard around us and I think it also shows though, that yes, this problem at Grove city college went beyond just a few chapel sessions.

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Uh, and, and it's very aware. You're very aware after listening to something like this in its fullness that, wow, okay, there's a problem there.

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All right. So I'm just going to play some short clips from this particular podcast and just give you a sense of what's going on.

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So I'm going to start here about eight minutes in, uh, eight and a half minutes in, uh, for this interview with Chris Merrick.

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So you said that the cons way heavier than the pros or six. Yeah. So with that in mind, why do you think it's so important that people know what, like, or at least hear what it feels like to be a minority?

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Because I think no one here likes to be mistreated, right? Like raise your hand if you like being treated like trash, like no one, no, no one enjoys that, right?

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Like no one, no one enjoys to be disrespected. No one enjoys to be marginalized.

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And so I think for me, like, um, I'm not a student here. Right. And so like, I don't think people are brazen enough to, to say something to their peers.

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all right. So he goes on, he talks about how bad it is to be a black person, uh, the negative things associated with that.

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And so this is strong language. He says, basically you're treated like trash. That's that's his direct quote.

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You're treated like trash. And, uh, it's, he's talking about Grove city college though, included here.

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Cause the very next thing is, well, people aren't brazen enough to say the things to me that they would say to their friends.

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So, you know, I don't hear all the, the slurs and the things that I would normally, uh, that people want to say to me because I'm not a student.

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I'm in a position of authority basically, but that's, that's what it is to be a black person, including at Grove city college.

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That's what he's saying here. I don't go to Grove city college, maybe some Grove city college parents and students can pipe in here.

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And then, and then you can tell me who's attacking Grove city college or who's, if this isn't true,

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I mean, if you're a minority, are you treated like trash at Grove city college? Is that accurate? If you're not, if that doesn't actually represent what happens at Grove city college, then you have a guy who's being paid by the college on staff there, who.

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Is fine characterizing the college this way. And, and yet the administration doesn't see him as a threat.

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That is that interesting? I just didn't find that interesting. So, uh, he, he talks on about that for a while.

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I want to go to, um, to a section a little later here where they talk about white privilege.

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So he's, he's getting done sharing a story here of when he was in college and how there was someone who used,

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I think it was an abbreviation or an acronym that included the N word and, uh, applied it to him.

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And it was someone who, uh, he was supposedly this person thought that he was friends with Chris and Merrick.

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And, uh, it was this horrible, horrible thing. And they, and she talks about the way that the school reacted to it.

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And really the people there, there wasn't anyone who approved of it. That, I mean, his pastor was against it.

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The school, uh, did, did something about it. His friends were all defensive of him and, uh, no one approved of this.

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This is a guy who said something, uh, she shouldn't have said. And, and so this is what he has to say though, after telling the story.

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So what you just described is evidence that white privilege still exists. The fact that someone in a position of privilege thought that it was appropriate to employ an extremely derogatory word in any situation.

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Is evidence that white privilege still exists and is very much a threat to equality. And yet some people are uncomfortable or even disagree with the idea that white privilege exists.

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So why do you think so many people still cannot and do not acknowledge that it's a very prominent and dangerous threat to equality?

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And what would you say to those people? Let me stop here. This is a question he's asked. Is this, think about this, this is a person who just said that you're treated like trash, even in Grove City College, if you're a minority, that's what it's like to be a minority.

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Well, what does that mean? Well, it means the other people, these white people are the ones that are treating someone like trash.

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That's who they are. Right. So you can characterize, uh, you can, you can characterize them like this or that this is the status quo.

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This is regular life, normal life for someone who's a minority there. And yet, um, then a story in which it's according to Chris merit, this, what this, uh, young student did was who apparently he says was annoyed.

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It was trying to study Chris and his friends were being obnoxious. This kid said something he shouldn't have said.

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And then no one's supporting that kid. They're all against what he did. The administration's against what he did.

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His pastor's against what he did. His friends are against what he did. That's somehow evidence that there's white privilege because someone can say something.

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Even though they're condemned for it because they can say it, but you can go and you'd say that, well, you're treated like trash if you're a minority.

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And that's not evidence of anything. That's what it is. Just, if you flipped all of this, it would sound funny to our ears.

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I think if you were as a white person, that's like, well, yeah, you know, uh, if you, you know who wants to be treated like trash and if you are in the inner city and you're white, you're treated like trash.

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Uh, and, and that's, that's how those people treat you. Um, that you probably be accused of racism. Uh, and if you, and if someone said something against white people like that, or call them white trash, right.

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Uh, what would happen to them? Would it, would it be the same kind of reaction? Right? So this is how one of the, one of the indicators, how you know that there's, there's a double standard being employed, which critical race theory totally is based on a double standard.

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It's it's, uh, it's obviously influenced from Marxism and postmodernism, but it, the whole idea is that you drill down even deep into our language and our conception of knowledge and as deep as you can go, and there's power dynamics at work and it's white people oppressing black people or minorities.

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And, um, and so we have to adjust everything to help those minorities reach a status of equality somehow by redistributing, um, money, or it might just be redistributing privilege and platforming and all that.

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So it's, it's a double standard at the end. You have to view people according to their race, uh, for this to work.

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And then that's how the justice comes in. And so this, one of the ways you recognize it is by seeing a double standard come out, which we're already kind of starting to see here.

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Now I'm going to, I want to hear his answer here. Let's listen to this. This is Chris Merrick, uh, who works at Grove City College explaining the, uh, what, what white privilege is and the evidence for it.

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I'm not white. It's hard for me to begin with my little interaction.

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And I think, right. Like we all to some degree, I'm, you know,

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I have a very limited world, but I think in my mind, why, and again, right.

30:34

You can direct me if you're wrong to your wife, your wife, right. Um, but I think when I've been interacting with white people who have such a hard time with white privilege, one or two things happen, they feel this personal attack on them as if they created this, this privilege, which

30:51

I don't think current white people have created, they definitely create the system, but they benefit from the system.

30:59

And I think when you tell them when they hear that, they, they hear that you're saying that they're wrong.

31:07

Um, and especially white people who want to help and want to engage that, that's kind of a punch to the gut.

31:17

Um, and there's this weird tension of, of you, them not wanting to own up to their, their privilege.

31:25

Right. And so like, and we all have a privilege to some degree, right. Like as a man,

31:31

I have a privilege and I know that. Right. Um, and there are certain things that I get because I'm a man, right.

31:38

I know when I walk in the room, all eyes, like you don't look, you don't get attention. Right. Um, and so, and I think the reason why privilege is so difficult because it says that you got to look at yourself and you got to say,

31:52

Hey, I'm a part of a systemic issue in our country. And, and again, right.

31:57

I think when people hear, like when they hear that, that, that phrase, that term, they, some people just don't want to face that music, right.

32:07

Like I think like when you become a believer, right. I didn't want it to acknowledge that, you know,

32:12

Jesus, you have to admit that you're wrong. And we inherently do not want to do that as people, but we don't want to admit that we have problems.

32:20

Right. And so when you have something so charged as white privilege, especially in today's world, you know, like you're just, as you're a white individual, you benefit from these systems and it doesn't mean that you don't work hard.

32:31

Right. Like I, like my friends, like their grandparents, like they work really hard. Right. It doesn't mean that you're lazy.

32:38

I think that's what people hear. And I'm like, I'm not calling you lazy. I'm just saying right or wrong. You benefit from a system that was built by people who look like me, right?

32:46

Like you think of slavery, right? Like that was free labor for 200 and some years. And you think you're not benefiting from a system?

32:53

Like two plus two is four, right? Not, not, we don't have to do all this one point, but no dog, two plus two gets you four and white people have benefited from a system in America that pushes them above people.

33:07

And I think. Okay. So I don't want to, uh, play there. There's a part he gets to where he basically states, he comes out and he says that it's not personal.

33:17

It's not like I'm, I, he says, I'm not to a white person. Trying to condemn you.

33:23

You're just part of this bigger group, right? And that's this whole argument he's making here. That's what it is. This white privilege, uh, conception is that you're just part of this group.

33:34

And even, even, even said from what you just heard, you know, you, you might be trying to help and that's a hard thing to hear because you don't agree with that and you want to help that.

33:42

But you're part of the problem. Essentially. You're having all this benefit, this, this, uh, privilege allocated to you.

33:49

And that gives you a benefit that others don't have. So, um, for lack of a better term, he kind of puts everyone in a box, right?

33:57

And, uh, regardless of circumstance, if you're white, you have this, right? So I think that's interesting to me.

34:04

So he's viewing through throughout this podcast. You see, he views white people as a, as a block. He says, yes, they're individual white people, but you got to understand that you have this thing attached to you, right?

34:14

You're you're as a, as a block. Now, um, I want you to remember that cause it's going to be important later on for something else.

34:21

I'm going to play, uh, from Chris Merrick. Uh, I want to skip ahead here to, we're going to skip actually, uh, let's see how far do we want to skip ahead?

34:34

Let's go to 33 here. We're going to come back to the white privilege stuff too, but let's, let's skip ahead quite a bit, um, and just hear a little bit about black lives matter, whether or not

34:46

Chris Merrick is, is in favor of that. First project together, but, and they were able to have like real hard conversations because these people came from different walks of life and they appreciated each other, you know?

34:58

And that wasn't my college experience, right? Like it was, it was oftentimes me saying like,

35:04

Hey, have you thought about the minority in this room? Right. Like, have you thought about those things?

35:10

And those guys at that point were like, y 'all like, we gotta think, we gotta think through these things. Right. And it was the, it was the black kid telling his black friends, like, yo, like we ain't going to be playing all hip hop music, right?

35:21

Like we don't grow some country in there because you know, Mason loves Garth Brooks, right?

35:27

You can't play that for me. I don't know, but I'm gonna let you be great y 'all. Oh, but like even those little small things where you see people like thinking about somebody else other than themselves and me not necessarily having to teach them, yo, like you should care about other people, right?

35:45

Like, why should I tell you that, that other people matter, right? And so like, and I think for me, like having that experience and not saying that you don't have, like,

35:53

I don't want y 'all giving me like going all the way in and grow up city, right? Cause I don't think I would not be here if I did not believe in a mission that grow city, or I didn't value the work that you students put in or, or the staff about to put in, but like, it is, there, there has been this difference versus me being there and here where like, like if I always say black lives matter there, like day one trip, you, you, you say it here and they call you a socialist and I'm like, that makes me a socialist.

36:23

Cause I'm telling you that like, or it's limo. That's no, that it's a, it's a limo, right?

36:29

So when I say like, if I, if I say healthcare for all, you know, and they don't mean it as a compliment, right?

36:37

It's a, it's a freaking, it's a dick, you know what I'm saying? But like, Lord knows, I say, somebody says something about you and your guns.

36:44

You're going to flip out, right? And it's like, I don't care about your guns, keep going, keep going. Yo, yo, 12K, it's locked on you, dog.

36:50

I don't care if you want to kill deer, go ahead and beat my ass. I ain't gonna argue with you dog, but, but like being there and seeing those students and I think because they have a true relationship with each other and they value different people, that's what helped them engage with each other.

37:09

Right? So it's like, if you are my home, you, my friend, and you say you value me, you care for me, how

37:14

I live my team matters. And, and there's one thing, if I'm doing something that's inherently morally wrong,

37:21

I expect you to say something, not jump for joy for that, but seeing those guys like celebrate each other, you know, the weirder kid, kid, like, you know what

37:31

I'm saying? And say like, Oh, thanks. You were part of the crew. You know what I'm saying? Oh, the, the kid that, that wanted to wear country music.

37:43

Oh yeah. Oh, but you know, it happens, you know,

37:49

I don't, I really don't like country music, but I'm going to stop there. So, uh, you're going to see this, you're going to see a bunch of contradictions come out.

37:58

You already saw one. I pointed out with, uh, at the beginning with, um, well, there's, there's evidence of white privilege because someone said something, but then you see

38:06

Chris Merrick says things, but that's not evidence of, of privilege on his part or anything like that.

38:11

He doesn't have that because the narrative is what's important. Not, not the conditions on the ground.

38:17

One, you're noticing something else coming out here too. Um, you'll see Chris Merrick say, he'll say you're treated like trash.

38:25

If you're a minority and he applies that to Grove City College, you're going to hear him again at a clip at the end where he talks about how, uh, he can't go to church because basically it's too white.

38:34

He's just, he's so exhausted from the whiteness at Grove City College. So he has to travel to go to church so he can go be with black people essentially.

38:41

And, and so, and I'll play that for you, but then he'll also say things about how great it is at Grove City that everyone just treats you like an individual.

38:47

Well, which is it right? Which is it? That that's one of the problems, like you can't really have it both ways.

38:54

Like which, which way is it? Cause in, in so doing, even saying how the people at Grove City College are, well, they treat you, uh, they even accept the weird people and apparently the people who like country music and want to, uh, play that, uh, in that in Chris's mind.

39:10

I mean, you're in Grove City in Pennsylvania. I would think it'd be a lot of people who like country music there probably. But, uh, anyway,

39:16

Chris, Chris thinks, you know, that's strange. But in, in, in talking about it this way, listen to how he kind of makes fun.

39:23

He kind of, he's saying that it's a dig when you're called a socialist because you like BLM or universal healthcare.

39:29

It's a dig when you like those things. Yet at the same time, what is he doing? He's digging people who make those associations and he's basically saying they're hypocrites because look, they're going to defend their gun rights.

39:42

So if they defend their gun rights, but they don't care about BLM, like there's, there's some hypocrisy going on there and, and he kind of mocks them and you hear the students laughing at, you know, cause they know the people that like their guns and stuff, but the reality is, you know, maybe, maybe those people who want to defend themselves and their right to bear arms and know that it's under threat and know that, uh, that could be a challenge.

40:04

The people who actually want their guns, right. And want to be able to fulfill the responsibility to protect.

40:10

And then also those same people are, are being consistent. They're trying to, they're looking at BLM and they're saying,

40:15

Hey, it's actually there, there is Marxism here. There is socialism. He's mocking that idea, but that's the very founders of BLM said they're trained

40:22

Marxists. So, um, I don't, I don't see what the, the, the issue is here. I mean, they'd refer to each other as comrade in there, uh, on the, on the website, or at least, uh, before it was taken down their whole purpose statement.

40:34

BLM is Marxist. It is. There, there's no doubt about that. There's no way of getting around that. Totally is.

40:39

In fact, there's connections between, um, BLM and, and, and in indirect ways, the Chinese communist party,

40:45

Trevor Loudon put out a whole thing on this. So, um, to mock those people to, to, to think they're hypocrites and this kind of thing, but then to be like, well, yeah,

40:54

I also liked the people at Grove City college because they treat you like an individual. There's a lot of confusion here. And it gets worse.

41:00

It just, the confusion just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. And, and it creates, I think when you hear this kind of thing, it creates cause you're, you're, you're kind of like,

41:09

I think most people, when they hear this, who are ignorant of critical race theory, or even maybe our own history, but they know that there's some bad stuff in it and well, they want to do the right thing.

41:19

You hear something like this and you think, oh man, I don't want to be on the bad side of this. I want to be on the right side of history.

41:25

And I want to, to be the person who is promoting change and equality. And I want to distance myself from the sins of my ancestors and what can

41:34

I do? And, uh, and you get little encouraging things, you know, little like, well, I, little statements that make you think like, well, it is possible for me to.

41:45

Transcend these things to rise above these things and to, to not, uh, to check my privilege, to make up for my white privilege, to help other minorities by redistributing my privilege or using it for, for good instead of for evil.

41:58

And like, you get that impression, right? So there's this sort of hope, this slight twinkle of hope baked into it.

42:04

But then at the same time, there's this tension because you're, if you're white, like, well, you're just part of this category.

42:11

You're just, you, you, this is the way you think, or this is the way, this is the privilege that you get allocated to you.

42:18

And it's just, it's not fair. It's not right. Your very existence is just evidence of a disparity.

42:25

And, and, and, and, and so it's like back and forth. It's like guilt and hope, guilt and hope. And, and there's like, you never can get out of that.

42:33

That's that's one of the issues I've seen. I've seen this with people who get wrapped up in CRT. You like, you never get out of it.

42:39

You're always on that hamster wheel, always trying to prove that you have checked your privilege appropriately, or don't have it anymore, or you're, you're redeemed, you made up for it somehow.

42:48

And, and yet like, there's, you're, you're, there's always so far to go. You're never quite there. And you see the way

42:53

Chris is presenting this, it's, it's like, how does he characterize the people at Grave City College? It's like back and forth, back and forth.

43:00

And so, um, so we're, we're going to see that, uh, I think even some more as we go on, uh, he talks about, let's go to, he talks about white privilege some more.

43:11

I want to hear some of that. Uh, if we, I think that'll be helpful. Our little bubble that were racist in homeschool.

43:20

And so, and he was like, he was like, you're, you might have a problem with that. I say, dog, as long as they don't bring it to my door, we good, fam.

43:29

Like, um, because at the same time, I've learned how to navigate within majority culture.

43:35

Right. And so like, I was used to the people sliding in, in, in these microaggressions and those foolish words.

43:44

Right. But at the same time, it's my job to speak up and say something. I mean, you have it again here.

43:50

What I was just saying. It's like, Hey, Grove City College is great. Cause the people treat each other like individuals and they, they're inclusive.

43:56

And then a few minutes later, well, the only reason I can map it be here is because, well,

44:02

I can navigate these microaggressions I've learned how to exist within majority culture. I I've like, there's this hegemony of, uh, oppression that's existing there, but he just knows how to avoid the landmines and yeah, the there's the, the homeschool weird stuff, but as racist stuff, as long as they don't bring it to my door, you know,

44:22

I, I know how to navigate this. So there's this tension. I was like, and, and that's, uh, it's like, which one is it?

44:28

What, what, what is life at Grove City College? Is it that, or is it what he said previously? And again, we can have a conversation, but at the end of the day, we're not going to be.

44:52

So has Grove City. And if so, how, um, how, yeah, how, how, if, if a school has, how, um, has white privilege been illustrated here?

45:04

Because it, it, we need to be better. Um, I think from a staff perspective, like it's, it can be, it's so exhausting.

45:18

Like not like seeing students like push back so much when you're trying to get them to see their friends point of view, like, why am

45:33

I fighting with you on why you call your friend monkey an issue for you talking for me?

45:42

And it's just like, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and I know that my room, whether you, or that you're, you're a, a, a, a woman or specifically you are black, but they can tell you, like, they have to go out of their way to make other people comfortable.

46:04

They got to specifically the black students and the Asians, like they got to tone down who they are to keep from offending their white counterparts all the time, you know, and, and, and they're almost like an afterthought sometimes where it's like,

46:20

Oh, Oh, I forgot about you. Don't what you mean you forgot about me? I knew something about that. You're supposed to be my whole best friend.

46:25

Like, how do you forget about me? And not, and it's funny, right? Like we, we love to throw around these words.

46:31

Like, oh, I don't see color. Yeah, you don't act like you don't. And it's offensive to the

46:37

Lord to act like you don't see color because he created me this way until one thing. And again, this isn't to spiritually manipulate people and emotionally abuse them, but it's like, it's offensive to the

46:47

Lord to act like I don't exist. Right. Like there are times where like, or my color doesn't exist.

46:53

Right. And so it's just like, we are not the same. I do not think the same way as you. And that's okay. You know, but I know the black students like here specifically are like,

47:04

Chris, dog is tall, you know, and I have a little bit more diversity, right.

47:12

And grace and like, we actually got like a, a black, uh, student, uh, student association or whatever.

47:18

Uh, and so we have like an outlet, but the black students here don't have that. You know what I'm saying? Like, like it's a rarity to not see all black students eat together in the cafeteria.

47:27

Like that wasn't my experience at grace. Right. Like we, we linked up and it was, it was lit, you know what

47:33

I'm saying? But then I have a wife and I was always saying, why y 'all always sit at the cafeteria? Why y 'all sit at the table together? Oh my

47:38

God. Nobody said no. You and all your wife only sit at the table together. You know what I'm saying? And this is the same type of person.

47:44

Like, oh, I don't see color. Like, so why are y 'all like excluding yourself? I'm like, bro, we're not. Like, but most people, when you see people who look like you, you gravitate towards them.

47:57

If you, if you're going to stick out like a sore thumb, which at growth city, you gotta stick out, dawg.

48:06

Like you, you, you look a little different. You know what I'm saying? And so if you're going to go on people, because there, there's like this, like this, this, this, this let down that you're like, oh,

48:18

I didn't let my guard down. I'm around, like, I ain't gotta be super politically correct when

48:24

I'm talking. Cause you, we get each other, you know what I'm saying? And I'm sure it's all the same with a woman, right? Like you talk to your own girls differently than you talk to your girlfriends.

48:31

Sometimes the energy. Well, I don't know that I do, but I think other people do.

48:36

I'm talking about girl, man. I was like, Hey girl, like that dress don't look good on me.

48:42

You know what I'm saying? But my mom, like, I'm like, Nate, dawg, don't you, you can't go out like that.

48:48

Like I wouldn't tell, I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell any of my, like, you know what I'm saying? My lady friends, stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? And so like, you know, or even some of the black students, like I know some of the black students here, like see me in a very different light than some of my white students, cause

48:59

I'm like, dawg, I get, I get it. Like we, we, we get it, you know? And so, uh,

49:05

I know it's like super exhausting to be a minority in this space because like, and even then, right.

49:11

It's like, Oh, like, why do I always get like, why is it that I have to be the one to educate you on your privilege?

49:17

You know what I'm saying? Why do I have to talk to you that y 'all like, you got an upper hand and that's in itself.

49:24

The fact that you don't even realize that you have this ability to win and you don't even have to try like, and honestly, right.

49:44

Like, and maybe, maybe it is me like having a chip on my shoulder or, you know, but it's like being what it probably, probably the only black

49:55

R and E that's ever served at this school, right. Uh, in a, in a hundred and five years that it's been in existence, like I can't mess up, like I can't drop the ball because that can potentially mess it up for people that look like me to come behind.

50:11

And it's, and, and, and, and, and I think, or at least I hope that, that people wouldn't legitimately say that out loud, which, you know, they think like, it's a memory.

50:20

I got that last one. He turned out to be, you know what I'm saying? This is all right. I'm going to stop there. Notice a few things from what you just heard.

50:29

You don't have to try. Uh, that's what white privileges you can win without trying.

50:34

And yet you heard before he said, I'm not saying, you know, your grandparents had white privilege. I'm not saying they didn't work hard.

50:40

I'm not saying that you don't work hard. And then he literally comes back around and says, well, white privilege means you don't have to try, but you win.

50:47

Which is it? Um, you keep hearing him obviously going back and forth with the way Grove city colleges.

50:53

Apparently now it's, it's exhausting. It's if you're a minority on, on campus, uh, he paints it as it's such a terrible thing.

50:59

And one of the evidences he uses is why do I have to come to you and tell you about your, what

51:07

I have to educate you on your white privilege as if that, that's an evidence of this. Well, that's the whole point of the podcast.

51:15

He's willing, he's willingly doing this. He's sitting down and he's educating everyone on their white privilege.

51:20

And that's like half of what he talks about in this podcast. And yet he complains about it and says he like, he uses that as that's even a sign of white privilege.

51:29

The fact that he has to explain the white privilege, like he shouldn't have to do that. Uh, so it's, it, he says that, um, that minorities have to change who they are around white people.

51:43

They're, they're constantly doing this. You have to change who they are. But then he also says, but we shouldn't have color blindness. You have to view everyone differently because he says, even they don't think the same because I don't think the same cause

51:55

I'm black. Well, this is, we're dancing on the standpoint of epistemology stuff right now, because it's like, you know, the, the, your, the, what determines the determining factor and how you behave and what you think is going to be just your race.

52:09

That's, that's the thing that determines that. And, and so he's saying, well, we're, we're different.

52:14

We think differently. We're different. And, but that's the thing is, if, if we're so different, if you can't have color blindness, if you, if you need to look at people and calculate how to treat them based upon who they are racially speaking, and now he also brings up gender, then how do you not, how do you avoid not, you have to, to treat people differently.

52:39

You have to treat some people differently than other people. And, and, and his complaint is that it's minorities can't be who they are because they don't want to offend white people, but he's flipping it almost to be white people.

52:50

Now, I guess they have to check their privilege, be aware of this privilege. Uh, don't ask me about production, be educating you.

52:57

You have a privilege and then they don't be colorblind. You need to adjust the way that you treat people because we're different.

53:04

Don't think that I think like you are different. Uh, you, you, your white friends might think the same, but not me. And so you're creating a situation in which people have to walk on eggshells in a way they have to adjust the way that they, uh, interact.

53:18

And, and, and, and so the very things he's complaining about his solutions perpetuate, you see that throughout this whole thing, it's so contradictory.

53:28

Even within minutes, he'll contradicting himself on something. And, and it's, it's just interesting.

53:33

The interviewer is not picking up on this. Um, this is apparently according to president

53:39

McNulty there, they don't have a problem with this at the school. I mean, does this sound to you from what

53:44

I played so far? Does this sound like they're just engaging critical race theory in a negative way? Like, well, that's a bad thing.

53:50

And we're going to show you what Christianity teaches and why the critical race theory is wrong. Or is this advocating for critical race theory on campus from someone who is an employee on campus?

54:02

What do you think? Which one? Uh, let's get, we only have a few more sections here. I wanted to, um, talk about, let's skip ahead to, let's see.

54:12

We're almost there. He talks, I'm going to skip through this. There's a section where he talks about systemic racism. I'm going to just skip through that.

54:18

It's, it's what you would expect. He talks about, uh, well, let's actually let's, let's talk about that.

54:23

Cause he talks about diversity scholarships right near that. Here or at any of your other undergraduate, um, schools.

54:31

She asked if he's experienced systemic racism. I don't know if I'm going to say probably it's racism.

54:40

I don't know if it's ignorance because I think racism is a very strong word. And I'm like, for me, when

54:45

I call a person a racist, like, I'm not saying you can't come back from that, but dog, like for me,

54:50

I'm just like, if I call you a racist, I'm like, yo, I don't trust you. You need like the Lord to deliver you. Like, you know what

54:56

I'm saying? Like I'm not going to argue with a racist individual. Ignorant people would do that because I'm ignorant. I'm ignorant. Like, like I'm a very ignorant, so I know, um, but a racist individual, like, cause to me, it's like, you inherently think there's something going on with my life, with me as a person, like, like my skin color.

55:14

And you don't think that I'm working. Um, but I would say like an undergrad, like there was like this, there was this, there was this diversity scholarship.

55:26

Listen to his example of racism, of, of systemic racism against him. He gives a few, but I'm just going to play this one.

55:33

Listen to his first example that he gives here. He hits a scholarship. And again, my homies, right.

55:41

And we've had conversations and I've grown and grown and that's the beauty of that, but like, they was tripping that I was getting a diversity scholarship.

55:49

And I'm just like, bro, why are you, why are you so impressed about that? And he was like, well, they don't give us white people.

55:55

I was like, you want the $2 ,000 that they've given me a semester? You can have it.

56:00

You know what I'm saying? Like I, like my school was essentially paid for anyway, you know, so two, two grand, I was essentially pocketed.

56:06

I was, because at one point in time I was smart.

56:12

Oh, you know, I'm not stupid. I'm going to stop it right there. Listen to the story he gives his first story.

56:19

Just tell me whether or not this unravels the whole thing. He was given $2 ,000 a semester.

56:25

That's $4 ,000 a year on a diversity scholarship at grace college, a Christian college he went to.

56:31

And he had already had his school paid for. He said, and he was like, well, I'll just give it to my, you know, my white friend is like, wow, that's awesome.

56:38

You got a diversity scholarship. Wow. We don't get that kind of thing. And he was kind of taking it for granted.

56:44

Like, you know, why are you impressed? Why are you impressed about this? Well, we don't get that. Um, and then he's like, well,

56:49

I'll just give it to you. Cause I don't actually need it. So he pocketed it. He took the $2 ,000. He just pocketed it.

56:54

In other words, he had two, two grand extra a semester. And the question is how have you experienced systemic racism?

57:04

I don't know. I, I, I don't even know what to say that his own answer refutes.

57:12

It's, it's a self refutation. I remember I had an experience like this myself in community college.

57:17

I had a friend and we came from similar socioeconomic backgrounds and I didn't get anything for,

57:23

I had a merit based scholarship. For a one year, I believe that I applied for and got, and the rest of college

57:31

I paid for myself, I had to work. And, um, I also had to pay for transportation and, uh, my parents while I was in college, this was their grace to me, they allowed me to stay at home rent free.

57:47

Uh, and, uh, then, but if I wasn't in college, I couldn't, I had to pay rent. So, um, so there was an incentive in some ways to try to figure out a way to stay in college and pay for college.

57:58

And, uh, and this was early on. And I remember I was with a friend of mine who's, um, who's black and we came from similar socioeconomic backgrounds and he said, and we were friends.

58:08

And he said to me, he, he, I actually, we went to the cafeteria one day. I remember this and he was getting some like expensive stuff.

58:15

I couldn't afford it. It just, I wasn't able to go to the cafeteria and buy stuff. A lot of the time I would pack a lunch or, um, if I did get something at the cafeteria, it was usually something cheap.

58:25

I mean, he got this, this great meal. And I just, I asked him one day, like how he was able to afford that.

58:30

Cause I knew he wasn't working and I, and I was, and I couldn't afford it. And he said to me, well,

58:36

I have a stipend for food. And I, I was curious and, um, maybe, you know, at the time, maybe this showed my ignorance, but I just said, well, how do you get that?

58:46

You know, I thought maybe, maybe I can get in on this. And I said, is it because did you get it because of like, uh, how much money your dad makes when you fill out your

58:55

FAFSA or something like did, were you able to submit that and you fell within a bracket? And he goes, no, it's not that it's, it's because I'm black.

59:03

And he just said it straight to me. So it's cause I'm black. I was able to get this and he goes, I also get a gas. Uh, I get money for gas so I can pay for that.

59:11

And if I have anything extra, he goes, I just keep it and spend it. And I remember the moment this happened because I was like, it, it, in my mind,

59:20

I was like, does not compute how in the world, like, I was like, this doesn't seem fair to me.

59:26

How come, how come, like, I don't have any of this available to me and you do. And, and it didn't breed any resentment.

59:33

Uh, thank God in me. Uh, I know for some people that can breed resentment, uh, that's where, where you, you create racists.

59:40

The, and I shouldn't, I don't even like using the word racist. Let's just use a biblical word. You create people who are, uh, partial show partiality based based on S ethnicity, simply because, uh, of experiences like that.

59:53

And they, they're like, why is my money? Why is my taxpayer money or this institution's money or what I'm paying in tuition, why is it going for this?

59:59

You know? And so some people, they, they get, they can get resentful. I don't know a lot of people like that, but I know some people can be like that.

01:00:06

And I wasn't resentful, but I was, uh, it did bother me at the time just a little bit, because I, I just, um, and this, but this particular person ended up, they didn't finish their degree.

01:00:18

They didn't take it seriously. Uh, they, they tended to just skip class regularly. And, um, and, and I was thinking, man, they, they have a subsidized degree.

01:00:28

Not everyone does that. Who's subsidized, but they have this, this great privilege. Let's use the word. It's a privilege to be able to have your school paid for and your money, your gas and your food.

01:00:38

You did that, man. That's not something that all of us have. And then to kind of squander it and it just, the waste bothered me.

01:00:46

I've always been bothered by waste in my own life. I'm bothered when I waste it, when I waste things. And so, um, this individual,

01:00:54

Chris Merrick, who works at Grove city, he had, it sounds like a similar situation. He just gave, he pocketed 4 ,000 bucks a year that was unnecessary money.

01:01:03

He just got, cause he was black and, and that's supposed to be evidence somehow of white privilege.

01:01:09

That sounds like privilege to me. It sounds like, you know, you got some privilege here. Uh, so, um,

01:01:14

I, I just, I don't even know what to say other than what I have said. It's just, it, it, it really sticks a needle in the eye of that narrative when, uh, when you have something like that.

01:01:26

So, um, let's see, let's keep going. Let's see. He says, um, let's just keep playing this.

01:01:36

I'm going to keep playing this from where we are. And so, um, but yeah, he was, he was upset that he felt like black people got special treatment.

01:01:54

And then he was, he was coming at me and I'm just like, you mad at me.

01:02:00

Did they give me money? What you want me to turn it down? Would you turn it down? You know what I'm saying? And I told him that I was like, would you turn down two grand a semester?

01:02:08

Uh, so I'm not going to turn down two grand because it's going to make my friend go better by himself.

01:02:16

Okay. Let's turn the argument around on him. This is, this is the jujitsu move right here.

01:02:22

Okay. The, this is the Achilles heel of this whole podcast right here. He is upset that his friend was upset.

01:02:31

His friend's saying, well, basically how is this fair? And he wants, according to Chris Merrick, he wants a cold

01:02:36

Chris responsible. Like, why would you do that? Why would you take $2 ,000 when you didn't, you don't need it.

01:02:41

You didn't earn it. And now it's just free. And it, you know, probably with the edge of my tuition money's going to help subsidize yours.

01:02:49

Why would you take that? And Chris is defensive and says, well, you, you, you have a problem with that. You go talk to the president about it.

01:02:56

I didn't set it up. What's the whole issue with white privilege? What's the whole thing?

01:03:01

The whole argument that they give is that there was this system that was set up.

01:03:07

And it's not white people individually who set it up, but it was set up and they're benefiting from it. Therefore, what do you need to do?

01:03:13

You need to check your privilege. You need to redistribute somehow. Uh, you need to do something to remedy this disparity that exists.

01:03:23

And in this situation, you have black people getting a special privilege that they didn't set up themselves, but they're willingly taking.

01:03:31

They're taking it. It's an, and this is, and this isn't a fake thing. This isn't like white privilege. Oh, it's out there. Just trust me.

01:03:36

This is like, actually, you can put a number on it. You have $4 ,000 right here, um, in objective reality.

01:03:43

And what's the response. How dare you question me? How dare you are upset at me for this?

01:03:50

You go and, and you, you, you complain about the system. If you want to complain about the system, I'm just going to pocket this money that you help subsidize.

01:03:59

It is a direct contradiction direct. This is someone who is a hypocrite who doesn't practice what they preach.

01:04:06

Uh, because when he's in a situation where he's getting benefit allocated to him on the basis of his race, then he is defensive of receiving that.

01:04:17

And he doesn't see the problem with it. And he thinks that the people complaining shouldn't keep hold him responsible.

01:04:23

And yet he holds white people responsible, uh, for the white privilege that they have on the basis of the fact that he wants them to do something about it.

01:04:32

They got to check their privilege somehow. And we're going to hear some clips from that here soon. And they wouldn't be talking about this if that wasn't the case.

01:04:40

So it's just, it's so inherently contradictory. This whole thing is a bundle of contradictions. Uh, let's go to, uh, let's skip ahead just a little bit.

01:04:50

Um, to a question that gets brought up here from the interviewer, who

01:04:57

I think is a student. What's his bias? Like, Oh, like here's this black kid. And we were too far in between them with Warsaw, Indiana.

01:05:05

Right. And so like, and I'm sure like he had these preconceived notions, like we all do. Right. It is just like happened to come out and do follow me.

01:05:12

I was like, girl, like, you don't, like, I'm not going to steal from Walker and his dog. I'm sorry. Like, I'm just,

01:05:18

I'm just not right. And my dad, like my dad would kill me and I like to live. So I didn't do it.

01:05:25

Yeah. So I was trying to educate myself about privilege before and while writing this episode, and I came across a very sad reality, especially given the fact that we all attend a

01:05:35

Christian school and that is that people of faith historically, and unfortunately, in some cases today, we've talked about this a little bit, um, have worked against racial justice.

01:05:46

And specifically, I looked into Jamar Tisby's book, who I think he was here last year, this semester before, right?

01:05:52

Yeah. Um, the color of compromise and how he details and describes the fact that, um, some white

01:05:58

Christian leaders not only vindicated and excused, but promoted racial bigotry and discrimination.

01:06:06

I want to stop here and just make this one point. The whole argument is that, well, we just had these people in chapel from the administration.

01:06:12

We just, we had Jamar Tisby come. Okay. We had it. We had him come and then Carl Truman comes out and says, well, you know, maybe that wasn't the best idea, but we're, we're unapologetically

01:06:20

Christian and we're not pro CRT and all this. You have an evidence right here in real time.

01:06:25

Here's a student who, guess what? Guess who influenced her to start looking into privilege guests who helped show leader down this garden path towards CRT.

01:06:34

It was Jamar Tisby coming to chapel. Do you realize how, what an effect a chapel message can have and then a series of them for two weeks?

01:06:44

Do you mean even if it was just that alone, which it's not, that's bad enough and it's having a real effect and the evidence is right here in this podcast.

01:06:52

So I just wanted to point that out. Uh, now, um, we get to another section here.

01:06:58

We're almost done. I only have, I think two or three more sections. I want to show you believers would probably call

01:07:04

Jesus a socialist. And for me, it's like, how big have you crazy?

01:07:11

Like, what are you not seeing? And again, I'm not at a place where I'm like,

01:07:16

Oh, we need to make everything free. Right. But it, it, it pisses me off so much because it's like, no, we serve

01:07:27

Jesus. Like we should not be the ones who are, we should be the ones who stream people. And I think we have gone to this place where you ask a

01:07:35

Christian what their views are on certain topics. Like it comes across as bigotry. So I get that. I got, I truly do, but like, like we shouldn't be in places where we are mistreating people or we are, we're being okay with people being mistreated.

01:07:51

Right. And I'm not talking about like white people. I'm going to stop here. I really want to play the rest, but I, I'm got to keep moving along here.

01:07:58

But if you caught at the beginning there, he says, if Jesus were to come back today, then the Christians today would, would, they would consider him to be a socialist, the concern.

01:08:08

And these are the people at Grove City College. They would, they would think he's a socialist. Uh, that's, that's who the authentic Jesus is, uh, is he didn't say he is a socialist.

01:08:16

He's saying that he would be considered that by, uh, by, by, so Jesus is basically on the social justice bandwagon to some extent, that's what he's saying.

01:08:24

Jesus. And on the basis of the fact that, well, Jesus would treat people equally. And what does equality mean?

01:08:30

Well, it's BLM. And how do you know that, John? Well, let's skip ahead a little bit and let's see what he says here.

01:08:38

Lord Jesus is like, I'm going to love you regardless of the stupidity that you do.

01:08:44

And that, if I say that I love Jesus and I'm following his statutes, like I have to love people regardless if they love me back or not.

01:08:54

And there's a greater reward too. Like when Jesus talks about this, like what, what do you get out of loving people who are similar to you?

01:09:02

That's easy. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so, and I think it shows a testament to who the Lord is when we're able to forgive and step in and encounter people who are different than us.

01:09:13

So going off of that, let's talk about this idea of equality. Cause the first time I met you, it was something that we talked about, um, quite a bit and from what

01:09:20

I can tell and have read, that is the sole motivator behind the Black Lives Matter movement. So straight up, what does equality mean?

01:09:29

Um, I think like there's this component of like, we're all like treated fairly. Um, and we're all treated with some respect.

01:09:39

Um, yeah. Like, I don't want to say treated.

01:09:45

Yeah. Treated as how you want to be treated. And like. So, so the Black Lives Matter, that's what she brings up. It's equality.

01:09:51

What is that? What's that? Well, it just means treating people how you want to be treated. Does that mean getting extra scholarships because of your race?

01:09:57

What does that mean? Does that, is it, he, he doesn't delve into the, actually he keeps it on this broad level of Christian principles.

01:10:04

And we're just all supposed to assume. Yeah. BLM is part of that. That's just, that's what they're about. They're just about treating people equally.

01:10:10

And if Jesus were to come back, people today would think he's a socialist because he'd be for that too. But what's

01:10:16

BLM's conception of equality, right? Uh, it's not inequality before the law. It's an equality that adjusts for different social locations and redistributes based upon that.

01:10:27

All right. Let's go to, um, just, uh, the, the practical stuff here at the end.

01:10:33

This is the last, uh, part of it that I wanted to, um, talk about. So he's asked a question, uh, about how basically he could leverage, how, how people should leverage privilege.

01:10:45

Oh, treated with some respect. Oh, yeah.

01:10:51

Like I'm not going to say treat. Yeah. Treat us how you want to be treated and like give people the platform to, to have the same benefits that you got.

01:11:04

So how can I, we as privileged people employ our privilege as a catalyst for that equality?

01:11:12

I think you leverage it, right? Like you, like how many are getting white in this room?

01:11:18

You're a white person, white people. How many of y 'all have a say in that being created?

01:11:24

What anybody, I got to skip ahead for time's sake. I'll try to, I'll put the info, um, the link in the info section.

01:11:31

Basically what he says though, I'll just summarize for you. You got to leverage your privilege. And where do you go to do that? You look at Google. He literally says that go to Google and Google ways that you can leverage your privilege.

01:11:42

Uh, and, and so it, he leaves it kind of open -ended. Um, but it's like, this is the language of CRT.

01:11:50

This is what we're hearing that you got to leverage your privilege. You got to do something extra because of the, uh, allocation of benefits that you're receiving as a result of your race or your skin color, you must then, uh, do something about that because that's not a right state of affairs, except I guess if you get $2 ,000 a semester for your race, that somehow is okay.

01:12:12

All right. Um, now he, he says something interesting at the end too, and I wanted to share it with you too.

01:12:20

Cause he goes back and forth on Grove city college. And well, you know, is it, what is it? I mean, it's, is people are loving each other there and it's a good environment for him or it's a bad environment and he goes back and forth, back and forth, check this out.

01:12:35

I don't go to church in Grove city because there's not no diversity. Oh, and if I was going to stay here in Grove city long term,

01:12:43

I needed to be around people who looked like me or who had like, I need to be comfortable.

01:12:51

Like I needed one place in this town where I was going to be comfortable. So I go to church in Pittsburgh. We're actually not open.

01:12:57

It's ACAC down there, but we're not open because of COVID and it's too many people.

01:13:03

All right. We're going to stop it right there. Um, the last question, the, where they end this whole thing,

01:13:11

Chris, where do you go to church? Uh, this whole thing about, well, we gotta, we gotta judge people individually.

01:13:18

Um, you gotta check your privilege, but you gotta, you know, look at people individually and, um, we, we can,

01:13:25

Grove city college is a great place because people treat each other as individuals and we just gotta love people.

01:13:31

Hey, where do you go to church? I can't stand the whiteness here. I just can't stand the, there's no diversity. I I'm not comfortable being at Grove city and I can't even stay here long term at Grove city because of all the white people.

01:13:42

So I go to a church that I have to travel to go to because I don't want to be around all these white people. That's that's this is

01:13:50

CRT guys. I don't know like how else to sugarcoat it.

01:13:57

That's exactly what you're hearing. This is someone who, and I feel bad for him. It's not, I don't want to condemn this guy.

01:14:03

I feel sorry for him. There's walking around life with, um, this,

01:14:09

I mean, he even said at one point in this, he goes, I don't know if I have a chip on my shoulder yet. I mean, you kind of do, you kind of do.

01:14:15

Uh, and, and if you, you feel the need that you have to go to church somewhere else because you just, those white people are just exhausting you.

01:14:22

And it's, I need the diversity. And here's the thing, like if you, here's the thing, if you want to go worship with a group of people, that's culturally similar to you, there's nothing wrong with that.

01:14:35

They're going to do songs differently and maybe the sermon style is different and there's nothing wrong with that.

01:14:40

But you don't, it's not because, well, I'm just, just exhausted by all these white people. You can't, it's just not an option for me to go to church in Grove city because too many white people.

01:14:50

And it's, no, it's just make it about what you love, not what you're, what you, what you can't stand, what's, what's irritates you.

01:14:57

What, and, and if a white person were to say this, what would you say? Well, I can't go to church in downtown, uh,

01:15:04

Chicago, or I don't know where, you know, I can't go to church in this inner city area because I need my white people.

01:15:09

I have to, you know, that would be just called racist out of hand. That would be, that'd be horrible. You can't have that.

01:15:15

Right. But this is totally acceptable. So you see so many contradictions in this all over the place.

01:15:22

Uh, and, and I just want to point this out to you. I mean, just to go over a few of them again, for review here, uh, you have, you can be treated like trash at Grove city college, and you can say that and then make all these comments about how white

01:15:34

Grove city college is. And if you're a minority, you're treated like trash. That's perfectly okay to say. Um, but yeah, you can't, uh, it's evidence it's white privilege.

01:15:45

If someone says something, uh, a racial, an acronym that includes a racial slur, even if it's universally condemned by everyone, if one person says it and they're condemned for it, that's white privilege, but it's not black privilege or any minority privilege to be able to, to imply that white people treat you like trash.

01:16:03

Uh, you have the, the, this whole thing about you shouldn't box people in.

01:16:08

Don't put anyone in a box. He says about the 43 minute mark, but then most of this is putting people in a box.

01:16:14

It's there in this white privilege box. That's who they are. And I can't even go to church around here. So because of the box that exists here on campus of all these white people,

01:16:23

I shouldn't even have to educate you on your systemic racism or your, your, your white privilege rather.

01:16:29

Uh, but then I'll do a whole podcast doing just that educating you on your white privilege.

01:16:35

Um, systemic racism is everywhere present, but yet, and you got to check your privilege if you're white, but yet if you are black and on the basis of that, get a big scholarship, then you have no obligation to redistribute any of that money.

01:16:49

You just pocket it and that's perfectly fine. And no one should complain to you about it. Uh, Jesus, um, apparently would have been called a socialist and, uh, it's, it's unfair that people think

01:17:01

BLM is Marxist. And yet, uh, he, there's a point in this. I didn't play, but he's like, we got to transcend politics.

01:17:08

We just can't be political, but yet he gets political. Um, you have, uh, and then of course the, the ending of this whole thing, uh, which, which just takes the cake for me.

01:17:22

It just, I'm like, why would you work at this institution then? And why would the administration think that's not a threat to the institution to characterize the institution like this, but yet someone who points out that someone's saying this about the institution, there's a threat.

01:17:36

Uh, well, the only way I think you get there is you got to be motivated by CRT somehow, or just some, some, something related to CRT.

01:17:45

So that that's the podcast. I just wanted, I was asked to review this. I did review it.

01:17:50

Hopefully that was helpful for you all. And, um, and if anything, there's that I want to, if there's anything

01:17:55

I want to emphasize with all this is when you hear folks trying to educate others on critical race theory, watch out for these kinds of contradictions that you're going to hear and maybe ask, ask really good questions about that.

01:18:07

Like, what about affirmative action? What about, um, what about special diversity based scholarships?

01:18:13

Is that right or wrong? Or, and on what basis is it right or wrong? Uh, and, and why is, is that okay?

01:18:19

Uh, and this other thing isn't okay. And what, why, what, what's the moral principle foundationally at the bottom of all of this?

01:18:27

Uh, or, or is it just this blank check equality that isn't really, doesn't have much of a definition to it, but when issues arise, we better be out on the street for whatever it is.

01:18:38

Uh, that that's, I mean, checking your privilege and saying, go to Google, which is what he says, go to Google, find out, well,

01:18:44

I mean, that's going to just corral you in the arms of true Marxists. I mean, that's what the whole

01:18:49

Marxist engine runs on. You know, why not then, you know, let's just de -platform or defund the police.

01:18:55

If you Google it, I mean, that's, you're going to find all kinds of ungodly ways to check your privilege. Uh, how about instead we, we look to the

01:19:04

Bible and that's one thing you don't find in this podcast. You're not finding any biblical anything. It's just subjective.

01:19:09

This is what Chris Merrick thinks of the world. And this is someone I'll remind you all who is employed at Grove City College as the assistant director of the residence life and resident director of Kettler Hall, someone who, who's drawing a paycheck from Grove City College.

01:19:22

So all these, this is the stage we're in at Grove City College. You can't even question

01:19:27

Grove City College, uh, without pushback that, well, there's no CRT here or it's not, it's minimal or it's not affecting anything.

01:19:35

It totally is. Totally is. And this is just evidence of it. All right. God bless. Hopefully that was helpful for those who are paying attention to this issue and involved in this issue.

01:19:43

Keep fighting, keep fighting there at Grove City. Uh, this, this is not going to, this is not over by any stretch of the imagination.

01:19:50

Um, and I, and I really do pray and hope that things work out well there, that there is a course correction.

01:19:56

And I, for people like Christopher Merrick, even, I pray for him, uh, today that just that he would see all these contradictions that he's engaging in and just see how, how detrimental this is, not just to him, but to the people that he's advocating this poison to.

01:20:09

It is poison. Uh, how about we actually look at people and we can certainly take into effect their culture, uh, their race, uh, being attached to that in some way as well.

01:20:18

But we don't, we don't, we don't then have to walk on eggshells figuring out how do we treat this person differently because of, uh, the, the, of their race or their social location, or we have to, when do we sit and shut up and listen?

01:20:31

And then when we, uh, try to check our privilege and what do we do about that?

01:20:36

And we're not even quite sure. And like, we're Christians. All right. We're Christians, a Christian college. We're Christians. Uh, we, we have certain fundamental values that we agreed to, or we at least knew were baked into it when we came to the college and, and we just treat people with respect no matter who they are.

01:20:52

And that doesn't mean doing some extra BLM thing because, uh, that, that's the thing, that's the thing.

01:20:58

So it's just much easier, much simpler. And there's, there's less opportunities for offense and walking on eggshells and paranoia and all the rest of it.

01:21:08

If, uh, we would just treat people. And I think he said it, he quoted it. Even he treat people the way that they, that you want to be treated.

01:21:16

Um, treat people with kindness, uh, it, and, and, and not a

01:21:22

Marxist infused there. What they think of kindness is, you know, you gotta change everything you're doing for this group of people and give, give them some of your money, give them some of your, uh, privilege somehow.

01:21:33

Uh, no, just, uh, just treat them like you would. I look here, here's for me.

01:21:38

I do have many black friends. I know some, some people on the social justice side might be surprised about that.

01:21:44

I don't know. But, um, I have Hispanic friends. I have family members who are

01:21:50

Hispanic and Jewish. And, um, I go to extremely diverse church, uh, racially speaking, and we don't have these kinds of problems there.

01:22:00

So we all just treat each other the way we want to be treated. We all just love each other. We all just know that the, the, actually the biggest thing that we share in common is the fact that we're in Christ and that we don't deserve his love and we get it.

01:22:12

And we're adopted into his family. It just, it makes things a lot simpler. And I think couldn't Grove city college have that. This is this kind of a speech just divides people.

01:22:19

It just creates resentment. It just creates a, whether it's, it's white people resenting their parents and grandparents, or whether it's, uh, you know, people resenting the fact that why is it that you got to do all these adjustments and give special privileges now to minorities because, you know, they were in, in a certain, you know, view them as a, uh, just a, a collection, a box in a, in a way and adjust everything you're doing, uh, to, to take from yourself and give to them, um, you know, that creates resentment too.

01:22:49

And, and it's, it's just better to view people as they're, they're different. People who come from Appalachia who might just be as white as I am, uh, often lived with a much different, they had a much different way of life and much, much more impoverished than I was.

01:23:06

Uh, and, but, but I look when I was growing up, we, we had our money issues when I was a kid and someone who is black and living in a rich family didn't have those kinds of issues like I did.

01:23:16

So it's, we're different, we're different people. Okay. And, and that it's a much easier and much better way to treat people rather than trying to then,

01:23:26

Oh, someone's coming towards me. Let's calculate who they are based on their melanin tone. And then, uh, how are we going to treat this person?

01:23:32

And all man, like, I'm so worried that I'm, I might offend them if I, uh, if I, if I let them know who

01:23:38

I truly am. Here's who I am. Here's who I am. All right. Uh, I've gone too long.