Aliens Among Us? A Christian Extraterrestrial Expert Weighs In

We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. Welcome everyone who's streaming.

Sorry, we're a few minutes late. That's Probably fashionable though because I know many of you came on and you're waiting with bated breath

Or what you're about to listen to and I'm actually very Curious about this myself.

We have a guest today Gary Bates who is the president of creation ministries? International he's been speaking on the topics of creation evolution and extra terrestrial life since 1990 and he made a great documentary

On this topic a few years ago. I actually saw it in theaters. It's called alien intrusion and you can go to Alien intrusion comm still and see that if you're interested in it's a really well made

Just wonderful documentary. He also has a book that accompanies of that movie if you're more of a reader

I think the book was written first and I've read that as well and I just thought with the new cycle We need to get

Gary on to talk about this because he knows a lot more than me So if you're curious after this interview and you want to know more

Then check out alien intrusion comm and you can find out more but without further ado Welcome Gary.

Thank you for joining. How are you? Good to talk it very good. I Debated to myself how to approach this

There's a number of ways to approach this topic And I thought the first thing to mention probably is to acknowledge

And I've already gotten pushed back a little bit that there are people out there who say this topic doesn't matter at all

It's just a big distraction from other political things, which maybe that is the case. You seem to think though that it's important and Why is that?

Why do you think this is an important topic enough to write a book about? Well, let me let me give you a bit of a personal history because I did not grow up in a

Christian home I didn't get saved until my adult years and one of the great stumbling blocks for me in the belief in the

God of the Bible Was in fact the authority of Scripture the idea that God was a creator as it says in the beginning

He created the heavens and the earth. I was a With my scientific bent. I was an ardent evolutionist and so when

I did get saved For other reasons I immediately tried to fit millions of years evolution

Big Bang into the Bible and Of course when I look at the size of the universe based upon my

Big Bang belief. Well if life evolved on earth It must have evolved countless times over in a billions of years old universe

Therefore there could have been extraterrestrial life So as I started to work for the ministry full -time and we can talk about this later

I think the Bible is pretty clear That there is no extraterrestrial life in terms of sentient beings like ourselves, you know capable of building

Interstellar spacecraft to visit other planets, but when we watch most science fiction today, and I'm a science fiction fan

That's why I ended up having an initial interest in the subject Most of that science fiction whether you watch

Star Wars or Star Trek, for example You know, they're visiting other worlds and people are at their different stages of evolution and therefore they've developed different levels of technology

Etc. So the idea there is that in this evolutionary

Big Bang old universe aliens are Evolving all over the place at different stages and that's what underpins science fiction

That's why you know, you look at Jabba the Hutt in Star Wars Why does he look different to humans?

well evolution took a different turn a left turn or a right turn in their planets history and So I realized that this pop culture icon because science fiction is the most popular entertainment genre today bar none

You know at any time six seven or eight of the highest -grossing movies of all time a sci -fi

The pop culture plus a scientific belief in evolution occurring all over the universe is problematic for the

Bible and therefore our ministry creation ministries international we seek to give answers to Christians in the area of origins, so I started researching and investigating it and I've read countless

UFO books written by people And we throw it in there and it's certainly not a boast

I mean, I've spoken hundreds and hundreds of times on the subject I've met literally hundreds of people who claim they've seen things in the sky

Christians included people listening here will have seen something they've never had Closure on and then on top of that I've met

Literally dozens and dozens of people who claim that they've been abducted by aliens

And you know, they've been up on board the spaceship and they've met Jesus and Buddha and Muhammad and they're all living together in peace and harmony and You know you fuddy -duddy

Christians have just got to get rid of your old -fashioned ways and embrace the new age and so on So that's kind of a bit of a snapshot of why

I got involved but at the bottom of it it gets back to origins Where did we come from?

Beliefs about where we come from it, you know, that's the foundational question to what we call The three big questions, you know

Where do we come from? Why am I here? What's our meaning and purpose to life? And of course what happens to us when we die

If the Big Bang and evolution is true Then we're just a giant cosmic accident along with all the other aliens

There's no meaning and purpose to life. There's no life after death, but if the Bible is true

Then we were created with meaning and purpose and of course The decisions we make in this life will affect where we spend eternity

So the foundational question that helps you answer questions two and three in both worldview scenarios is question one

Where did we come from? And that's what this alien? Issue gets to because people have been visited by aliens.

I've been told that aliens are our creators and all sorts of stuff well, so so you don't believe that these are aliens in the

Traditional or common parlance that these are this is something else if anything's going on here And I want to get into that and get into what you think the

Bible teaches on this But as a way to do that, I thought it would be helpful just to show I mean the this is

I think from three years ago the Pentagon had declassified Some videos of what they thought were

UFOs So many people watching are probably familiar with seeing this particular clip from the US Navy.

I hope you can see that Gary Yeah, and then, you know recently I'm just gonna play a very short clip here

This is within the last 24 hours, I believe we've had a number of interviews on major media websites like Fox News talking about this testimony,

I think mostly in the wake of There was a David Grush if I'm pronouncing that right a

United States Air Force veteran. He went to Capitol Hill I'm sure you follow that Here's some of the things that are being said right now currently

As we're in the news cycle as we're doing this interview Object was moving very fast faster than 95 % of the stars near the

Sun and it also had material strength Tougher than all the rocks we had seen over the past decade in the

NASA catalog. So there is a chance I wouldn't quantify it. I would just say it's quite possible that it's different than a rock the past couple years

We've seen more and more of the military showing these very interesting objects flying in the sky

Avi should this scare people? No, not at all. I think

We should Welcome it because it will be information that we can learn from And it will inspire us to explore space

It may make us better instead of fighting with each other Perhaps will it will be a wake -up call for us to realize that there are more important things in life than fighting with other people you know like the third dimension of space will inspire us to put our resources into Science technology and go out there a man witnessed an alleged spacecraft retrieved in the 1980s and stored at area 51 that's according to investigative journalist

Ross Coulthard who during a recent interview discussed an alleged anonymous source

Who has contacted the all -domain? Anomaly resolution office an office that investigates unidentified flying objects about the alleged craft according to the source his great uncle worked at area 51 and saw a

Photograph of the object and according to Coulthard said it was quote absolute proof of non -human craft

Okay Now Gary you being a Christian and saying that you don't believe these these aliens

Are out there that they're visiting us with these modern spacecraft. What do you make of that what you just saw?

Well, when I listen to those interviews, I thought oh my goodness. There are so many answers I could give Let me first start off start off by saying

You know the secular media might turn around and say oh, well, he's a Christian. He's going to be in denial

He's going to be a debunker. He's going to poopoo at all No, as I said, I've met hundreds of people who've seen things and it surprises them when

I say I believe you Yes, you know and that's one of the things I would warn Christians about is don't turn around and say

Let me tell you what it is or it's all spiritual etc. Now. We'll talk about that some more

You need to have empathy And help people talk through and understand what they're saying

You've seen the movie and I think you would find an agreed John that the movie had a very very empathetic approach

To people who've endured these Experiences etc. Now he turned around the first guy there turned around and said it was harder

It was harder harder than rock or any substance You've got to pick out the bits and pieces.

Actually, he can't know that From seeing something move through the sky Okay, now they do appear on radar, which means they're reflecting radar signals, okay

And they've been seen to say change shape as they fly. This is nothing new in alien intrusion

Unmasking a deception the movie you might remember that we featured some clips from a

Washington Press conference in 2010 where 80 Air Force officers

Got up and gave their testimony about these things moving faster than any man -made object we have

Doing right angle turns without slowing down Sometimes they merge into one another become one object and then go off in another direction.

And of course at the end What is the conclusion? They they make well,

I believe and we're gonna we're going to talk about it that there is something spiritual going on But the official authorities

Do not recognize the spiritual realm So when they see something that seems to defy the laws of physics or seems to travel

Faster than any crap man -made craft we can make now They must attribute it to some unknown advanced

Technology and it gets back to what I was talking at before Therefore if it's advanced it must be from beings who are more advanced than us

Therefore they must be more evolved from us, etc now I want to make a point here when I there are two views and I cover this in the book in the movie of How aliens might visit us one's called the extraterrestrial hypothesis the

ETH and this is kind of What we see in science fiction that people can fly faster than light in their real physical craft

Real physical beings can visit us and visit other planets Now with what we know from 80 years of research with these sightings and what we know about the laws of physics

Even the skeptic the non -christian would have to say Really, that's not possible.

And I know that when I say that people are going well, hang on You can't say that, you know a hundred years ago We didn't think we could visit the moon and so on and so forth

But visiting the moon in craft that fly thousands of miles per hour is a vast difference to craft that need to fly

Multiple factors of the speed of light the speed of light is a hundred and eighty six thousand miles

Per second and I'm saying within our physical space -time universe It's not possible to get physical craft

To do that if you are flying at one -tenth of the speed of light

One -tenth of the speed of light and you hit a speck of dust It's got the impact of like, you know multiple hydrogen bombs or atomic bombs

Sorry going off on the hull of your spaceship and I know that in Star Trek and whatever they have deflectors arrays and force fields

Well, that's just adding to the energy requirements of the craft because you've got to you use equal opposing force to try to deflect it

So We've never seen any of these sightings and look every day.

There's about 150 sightings across the world investigators go out they can always explain about 90 % of them

Because it's lay people looking up and they see you know, the International Space Station going overhead

They don't know what they're looking at They see lenticular clouds that is the kind of have saucer shapes

It would surprise people to know the most common mistaken UFO is in fact the planet

Venus And accounts for over 20 % of mistaking sightings and that's because it doesn't twinkle like a star

It just sits up there in the night sky Like a solid light so people when they look up because of this

UFO culture I go. Oh, it might be a UFO when they say that they really mean a spaceship from other planets

But very few people believe in the ETH anymore in the years. I've been investigating this we've seen a shift and The most popular view is called the inter dimensional hypothesis

Because we now know when we see these UFOs or they call them UAPs now

We've never seen them entering our atmosphere from outside When they appear in our environment, they're here they appear and they disappear

And as I said, they defy the laws of physics. How can craft flying at? Seven eight thousand miles per hour merge become one object and go off in another direction

The gravitational forces on any occupants would would smash them So this idea of called the interdimensional hypothesis is that beings or craft might be visiting us from another realm or dimension and That is always the view that I've advocated because it fits the biblical narrative because clearly the

Bible talks about a Spiritual realm call it interdimensional if you want to and what does it say?

We've had visitors and beings from that realm, which we might call angels Angels have interacted in our environment.

They've killed people God's angel in Egypt with the ten plagues affected our environment it affected nature and That's it.

Also what we see with these UFOs sometimes there are energy surges sometimes there are blackouts just like you see in the movie

Close Encounters of The third kind they appear they disappear and people see them now a

Snapshot of all is that all of that is to say? We don't disagree that people and now the government's are finally admitting that they see things

That's a huge quantum change by the way, John because in all the years I've been investigating this

There's always been plausible deniability we go back to the 1950s where thousands of people saw

UFOs buzz the Capitol Dome of the White House and You know a general had to come forward and say yes, we saw it

But it we don't know what it is, but we can say it's not extraterrestrial and it doesn't pose any any threat

You know, etc. So Other governments have been more candid the Mexican Air Force have always been candid for years about what they've been seeing

So we're at a kind of a period I Want to say that I've kind of predicted would happen

That the overwhelming evidence would be that we're seeing these things. We're seeing these things, but how would the government explain them and They're really their only option just like in that Washington press conference the conclusion was we're dealing with a technology far advanced

Well, what else can it be? It's it's alien technology visiting us from another realm or dimension.

We don't understand it So therefore it's got to be some advanced technology Whereas I would say no we are dealing with something interdimensional and guess what?

the good old Bible has always spoken about this and The only way we can unpick it is when we look at the nature of What people are seeing but also in this area called abductions because here's the problem you showed that Navy fighter tracking it tracking an alleged class craft.

What are they going to do? You can't kind of put your tractor beam or your lasso on it and bring it in and do empirical tests on it

Etc. Now, of course in recent interviews people are saying that there's been craft recovered and non -human biological material

Now, of course the question this I'd say I get you again you've got to pick the nuts and bolts out of it

You know, he was asked have have alien bodies being recovered and he didn't say no

And he said we have recovered non -human biological material now

I've already received emails from people saying they recovered alien bodies from the craft. No, that's not what they said

They said we've covered non -human biological material. Now, what does that mean? Well, I could find a rabbit carcass and say to you

John that is non -human biological material Anything that is organic and exist in this world is non -human biological material so Sometimes people give testimonies that are less than candid

Don't answer it straight and I can't answer that question because nobody's done any DNA analysis on it.

I Mean if it's non -human biological material, why didn't he turn around and say? Oh, we've done a

DNA analysis on it. And this is what it is, which clearly means they haven't so people have to be careful of Misleading statements that are presented and designed to lead us in a certain direction

They're not playing as we'd say in Australia with a straight bat. That's a cricketing parlance.

But anyway, so There's so many questions Maybe to continue on with what you're already saying

People I think wonder what about the supposed physical evidence because there's two categories

It seems like that you bring out or at least two in your book and you just mentioned it again there's the people who have experiences where they go into these ships supposedly or they witness aliens coming to them and then there's the

More the government end of it of the technology that were supposedly reverse engineering and we have all these crash

Spacecraft and it's just it's like it's happening all the time, but we can't ever quite get there's all this testimony

But we can't quite ever get you know A primary source that you can sink your teeth in so what about all this testimony of actual?

Physical craft with technology. I mean, do you just say that other they're just lying or that's just not true

Well, I'm not aware of one single case where physical wreckage has been recovered

Roswell which I've written about and people go to creation .com and type in What really happened at Roswell?

There was wreckage recovered, but it was top secret and Here's how kind of corny it gets.

We're talking about 1947 and What happened is the

Soviets were starting to? Test nuclear weapons and so we didn't have satellites in the atmosphere.

So due to the curvature of the earth How do we listen, you know over here to something that's happening over there?

Well, we put balloons with acoustic Listening devices in the atmosphere to be carried by the jet stream.

So to avoid the line of sight we could you know Listen to them You know or listen to what was happening in countries elsewhere

But when those balloons crashed Obviously the US government didn't want anyone to know what they were doing

And so that famous Roswell Daily Record newspaper front page newspaper, you know

UFO wreckage recovered at Roswell three days later. It came out and said no

No, it wasn't it wasn't but the government never at that stage admitted what they're doing now under the

Freedom of Information Act All that information is available and we know exactly what happened

But here's here's the thing and people need to understand that our worldviews drive interpretation

There was a very famous Air Force Officer that was working at the base.

He went out and he saw the record wreckage and to his deathbed

He said I saw wreckage from an alien craft and I saw alien bodies

Now we know they were they were Balloons carrying this very very primitive acoustic listening

Devices But the material was covered in a silvery the balloon was covered in a kind of a silvery metallic object which was unlike anything we'd had to that day a

Primitive idea of trying to reflect radar and this type of stuff. And of course it didn't do that So we actually know what happened at Roswell yet There are people alive today who will claim they saw the wreckage it was from an alien craft and they saw alien bodies there

They do it for a number of reasons We tend to put them into categories like they're mad or they're bad as in they're trying to get their five minutes of fame

But I've learned over the years particularly in Christian ministry that people are much more complex than that and Sometimes you can believe your own cause is holy and I've seen that in the

UFO movement people Believe that the end justifies the means they can stretch the truth because at the end of the day

It'll force people to and the government's to tell truth about UFOs another example related to Roswell was the famous majestic 12 document and this says a non -christian certainly had me believing because they said he was a document signed by President Harry Truman Authorizing the creation of this mj -12 group, which was to you know

Secretly, this is where the men in black idea comes from to secretly investigate UFOs And to me that was like well, there's the president's signature

It's so it's true. Obviously the government knows about it covering it up and then later it was revealed that that document

Was smuggled by two guys Into Into government archives, these were publicly available archives claim that they'd found it

And the whole book, you know the Roswell incident which became a huge bestseller and in my non -christian days convinced me that UFOs and aliens really did exist all ended up turning out to be a hoax.

Now. Why did those guys do it? Well, maybe they thought they'd get a best -selling book out of it But I suggest that they really believe that the government was hiding the truth and something like this would force their hand

But as I say for years the government has been in denial. I know the government's been seeing things

I know they've been recording it and so do a lot of UFO investigators and now finally they're turning around and saying and Releasing this footage.

I mean to me This is a quantum shift. It's an absolute momentous event and Look ministry, we don't get into end times or eschatology.

We tend to deal with the beginning of the book But goodness me, I mean what are people to think?

As I say, I think they will explain it as UFO or extraterrestrial advanced alien technology and This is going to cause a great paradigm shift in society, you know in my book alien intrusion now, you might not remember but there's a quote there from the 1980s where NASA had investigated and They concluded that back in the 1980s that the the idea that aliens were visiting us would destabilize society because our views were much more traditional and conventional and Of course,

I've got that famous Section in the movie where Ronald Reagan addressed the

United Nations in the United 1980s and he said You know all of our and I'm paraphrasing all of our internal differences and between our countries and the politics would disappear if we were facing a threat an alien threat from outside because suddenly we'd realize how small we are and That there's bigger meaning and purpose out there in the universe and there are massive implications for the idea

If the government does announce that aliens have been visiting us Yeah, it's fascinating because that's what the

Harvard professor Avi, I think it's lowy, but I don't know if I'm pronouncing it Right, but in the initial clip that I showed you he's investigating supposedly that craft or asteroid or whatever

It was meteor that went into the ocean and that's what he said. He said well, maybe maybe this is a good thing

This is a very positive thing. We shouldn't be afraid which is I know you talked about that in your book that there's been a shift from Science fiction that the aliens are coming to kill us to Science fiction that says now the aliens are actually coming to save us because we're killing each other

Which is it's fascinating to see that show up now in You know the coming out of the mouth of an actual scientist.

It's not isn't sci -fi And I will notice I don't know if you saw this scary but in that clip

Avi had a some Jewish Religious symbolism behind him.

So I'm assuming he's religious in some ways I know Tucker Carlson says he's a Christian and yet you see these guys

Who you know would believe either parts of or the whole of the

Bible saying that yeah We're we're open to that. Yeah, we think that there's aliens out there Which I just find fascinating I want to get your reaction to that I know you have a lot to say on that But we have a caller who

Elijah Thompson who just came in Elijah. Can you hear me? I know I saw you come on earlier and I Figured you may have a question

Well, hi guys. Can you hear me? Yeah, absolutely Okay, perfect.

I can I can barely hear you on my phone. I'm not sure exactly what's going on So I kind of want to ask a two -part question if that's okay

So the first question that I want to ask is about ancient religions

So I've been listening to on a cosmos as probably some of the guys who are Listening to this have

I imagine? and It's really changed my thinking on ancient religions and How they were founded

You know, I kind of took the more materialistic approach maybe in the past where I thought most ancient religions were founded on con men who had a good idea of The truth just as it had passed down as it had been passed down since You know, no,

I guess or Free flood I guess Adam and Eve but now

I kind of see these things more as demons or Nephilim being real presenting themselves

And being worshipped as gods. So I'm kind of wondering your thoughts on that Do you do you see that in most ancient religions?

And then I have a quick follow -up question Sure, I recommend you get a copy and it's not just to plug the book alien intrusion

UFOs in the evolution connection You can get it on Amazon or creation .com as a physical book or a digital download

First thing there are very very common threads in ancient religion a lot of ancient religions talk about Seeing things we have historical records.

So One of the aspects about what we commonly call

UFOs today have been seen throughout history Just kind of getting earlier back to what

John says and then leading into your question In the movie Alexander the Great has records of flying shields apparently buzzing his armies now the

UFOs have changed shape so in the late 1800s they started to appear like Balloons or blimps and we didn't quite have that technology yet, but it was right on the horizon

It was being developed in Europe believe it or not at that time So what we've seen

Over the years obviously, it's masquerading but it seems to fit the technological understanding of The day, you know if somebody if there was a farmer in his fields in the 1800s and he saw some lights

Look, you know buzzing up in the skies if they're guided intelligently, how might he interpret those?

Well, he's got no science fiction and you know spaceships on other planet type beliefs.

He's not been enculturated that way for want of a better term So he might say well, it's an angel or it's a demon or you know

Maybe I need to get my glasses checked or something like that So again remembering how people interpret things within the culture of the day and that's also what we've seen in some of these ancient texts the

American Indians have stories of flying canoes with people on board

Now getting back to your idea about Nephilim And post -flood type things again, that's fully covered in the book.

I actually have a whole 13 pages on who were the sons of God in Genesis 6

We get back to the word term The sons of God is been a Elohim Adam was a son of God been a

Elohim, etc Elsewhere in the Old Testament whenever angels appear we see the same term been a

Elohim so in the Old Testament it cleanly clearly refers to angels so you have the

Son or the descendants of Adam then I Adam Mixing with the daughters of men.

Okay So clearly angels are coming down and intermarrying with human beings again that means they take that physical form and here's the problem when most

Christians think spiritual they always kind of think about these ethereal ghostly like Beings glowing white with angel wings, etc.

But whenever angels appear in the Bible they appear physically They sat down with Abraham and they ate food.

So they're wearing clothes They had stomach organs and digestive tracts and they appeared as men

So they had gender so clearly

On the reason I kind of mentioned that that's the biblical explanation. But guess what? the ancient

Romans and the Greeks also have stories of godlike creatures coming down and intermarry with with people

Famous TV show Hercules who was he he was a half -man half -human Descended from the gods when they took for themselves human

Women the Bible tells us that those that sinned in Noah's time those angels are locked up in Tartarus in the

New Testament the word for hell is always Hades except for that one passage

Where it talks about those angels being kept in chain Tartarus will guess what Tartarus in Greek Mythology is the same place that Zeus kept those gods who intermarried with women and disobeyed

He kept them locked up in Tartarus As well, so there are overlaps.

Obviously, you're going to see in the other religions corrupted versions of Biblical truths there are over 200

Flood legends in different tribal groups around the world that symptom to mirror or gain although corrupted the

Bible's version of the great flood of Noah Etc. Sometimes a giant tree floats people and animals are survived

The top of a mountain breaks off and people and animals survive even back in Australia Australian Aboriginals have similar similar flood legends

I hope that's covered. It's probably a bit more comprehensive than what you're asking But we've seen

UFO sightings or mysterious objects recorded throughout history the sons of God and the

Offspring the Nephilim in various forms are paralleled in various mythological events as well

Yeah, that was great Elijah yet another question Yeah, I had one more follow -up question so my follow -up question to that is

Do you? Since it's clear that Demons and angels have both presented themselves

Very clearly to humankind Do you see what's happening as a potential setup for Demons revealing themselves

In a form of extraterrestrials to the wider audience, you know more than just a single person or do you kind of see that as I Don't know.

I guess where do you see kind of their level of power and influence? potentially having

Yeah, I think we've got to be careful as Christians to Look at any events in the current world and saying this is a harbinger of the of the end times

You read the early apostles writings in the New Testament. They kind of thought Jesus was coming tomorrow and I'm sure our ancestors in the first and second world war

You know probably thought Hitler was the Antichrist and something coming, but let me say this

Without me, you know sticking my flag in the sand and saying this is it

I I don't know we could be here for another thousand years before anything happens the idea that it would be aliens was kind of poo -pooed a while ago because of The view that physical aliens simply couldn't get here but because of the interdimensional hypothesis

And the idea which scientists are jumping on board the idea of multiverse or string theory

That there could be multiple dimensions etc to our universe The interdimensional idea of aliens has kind of had some gravitas in recent years so Yes, it's possible

I don't see a time in history and depending upon your eschatological view whether you believe in a

Rapture or not and where the Christians are going to disappear As a ministry, we don't take a view but here's what's interesting again

You can read it an alien intrusion the writings of the UFO's contactees themselves

Write about this they say for example Barbara Marciniak in a book called bringers of the dawn says that the

The kind of the ones that are holding back Mother Earth from evolving into her next stage of ascendancy

They're going to be removed from the earth. They're going to be taken to another planet, but don't worry about them.

They'll be okay and These who are holding the earth back The earth can now

You know evolve etc. And those on the earth are going to you know, be brought into a new dawn

Hence the book of the title the book title, etc so There's a lot of UFO literature that kind of has in time prophetic events that seem to marry

The Bible as well. And of course they claim that these messages have been channeled to them from alien beings

That they're in direct contact with So again, you don't have to take it from me, but the

UFO people themselves They're the ones that would probably say that we are certainly moving into a new period and a new age

And I think that it's a time for Christians To be absolutely sure of what they believe

I was at a conference in Roswell some years ago I was on a question panel and someone challenged me and said well

What if an alien spaceship landed on the president's lawn and got out and shook? He's you know aliens got out and shook his hand kind of thing and I said well

I think it would be a deception but somebody then said well What if we could really really prove that it was aliens from a planet far far away

Etc. And I said quite strongly. I'd have to throw my Bible away That's how that's how much

I believe on it because I don't believe scripture allows for these things

Well, why is that maybe rock us through why the Bible prohibits the view that there could be intelligent life -forms and other planets?

Yeah, yeah, well Again a prima facie view taking the

Bible at face value and by the way on the creation evolution Issue which is what our ministry deals in I should point out

I think we probably employ more scientists than any Christian ministry in the world there is lots of lots of scientific and physical evidence to support a young age of the earth and Obviously that evolution is not happening and people can type in creation .com.

What about dinosaurs? What about eight men and we've got over 16 ,000 articles there?

But when we take the Bible at face value The first man and woman sinned and they caused the world to fall

Okay, and as a result Death entered the world. That's why we get cancers.

It's why we die. It's why bad things happen It's why we get earthquakes and tsunamis because it wasn't just Adam and Eve that was cursed

The ground was cursed. The plants were cursed. We're living in a cursed and fallen world and You know a lot of people say well, why does

God allow these things to happen? Well as Christians, we should look at our world around us and realize

Something's wrong with us It's not the way God created should get us to question our mortality and you know, what is there after this?

Well, well the Bible says that the heavens and earth are being reserved for destruction the term heavens and earth is what we'd call a merism a

Merism is a grammatical phrase that where you describe the beginning and the end of the subject matter

To describe everything so it's a bit like John. Let's go and paint your radio studio from top to bottom

Tomorrow the top is one end. The bottom is another Implied in that statement is let's paint everything, right?

So when God says the heavens and earth in Genesis, it's everything that God created the universe and so the same heavens and earth are reserved for destruction

God's going to make a new heavens and earth where Death will no longer reign So it's going to be a physical

Recreation we get an idea of what the Edenic Genesis paradise was like because that's what's

God is going to restore things, too so Why does he have to destroy it because of sin because of the curse

Adams curse? Was so grievous that it affected the universe so imagine

You know if God did create life on other planets poor old mr. Spock he's sitting out there on the planet

Vulcan and Vulcans get diseases and cancers and they die because of what

Adam did Well, here's the problem. They can't be saved. Why? Because Jesus is the last

Adam to refers reverse the effects of the first Adam It tells you in the book of Hebrews chapter 2. It's not angels.

He helps but Abraham's Descendants God came as a human being

To save human beings and there are other passages that say and to redeem the creation back to himself

Jesus is not going to be Crucified and resurrected on hundreds of different planets for the aliens out there.

The Bible says he died once for all So summing up, you know when

God creates the new heavens and earth Poor old aliens who don't have a hope of salvation

You know if they were created by God, they're intelligent sentient beings who can ask those three big questions they realize their mortal state and they got no hope of salvation because of what

Adam did and then God just rubs them out at the end of time I Submit you that would make

God unjust and of course, that's something he's not If he's God now that is taking if you like the

Traditional some people might say literal view of scripture and there is no reason as I said at the beginning not to do that Because of all the evidence that we have today and the simple fact is

Whenever we look out in our universe now and they found thousands of what we call extra solar planets that that these might be physical bodies rotating around their own

Suns Basically, none of them have been candidates suitable for what we would understand as life

Most times we don't actually see a planet. So we might see a distant star and then what's called

You know, we see something moving in front of it that actually blocks the light of the Sun.

So we're presuming it's a planet We can determine the size sometimes they're bigger than even

Jupiter where gravity would be so intense that it would you know Beings been able to walk around it would be impossible for him, etc so there's something called the anthropic principle and there are over a hundred examples and Again, these are not

Christian terms. I'm coming up with these are in general scientific years over a hundred examples where it looks like the earth is created

Specially for human life that it looks unique So just in our little neighborhood of our own solar system, right if our earth was any closer to the

Sun Right, we'd fry a little bit further back. We'd freeze We are the right distance from our moon

Our moon is actually only retreating from the earth about two centimeters per year So even a million years ago, it would have been so close to the earth

We'd have these enormous tides that would wash up on the shore and then retreat the

Continents would have eroded down to nothing by this time So it's just in the right spot to give us tides that actually cleanse our ocean

Produce sea life that gives us oxygen that we could breathe, etc

So they're just and even when we look at our our Milky Way or our position of the earth

And our solar system in our Milky Way galaxy galaxy were about a third of the two -thirds of the way out

But if we were any closer in Towards the galactic central bulb bulge. We wouldn't be able to see the different stars

Which Bible says we're given for navigation and for signs and for seasons We'd get fried by radiation from the galactic central bulge and so on I mean you could go on so people can even look it up the anthropic

Principle so the Bible says in Isaiah, it says the earth was created. Oh god.

He created it He formed it to be inhabited. It wasn't created in vain

So the Bible tells you that God created the earth specially for human life

I want to shift to the Experiences people say they have and I wonder if you would agree with this

The vacuum that secularism has left and you know modernity where we've denied the supernatural for So long at least in elite circles and we've relied on man's observational

Observations scientific inquiry etc to determine what is true and what is false and our metaphysics

It seems to me that this whole craze with aliens is Is a more of a recent thing

I know you mentioned there was some ancient literature that gives us parallels but that but but the frequency by which people are saying that they've had these experiences is much increased and and perhaps this is just my thought that is filling a vacuum that is offering a sense of transcendence and spirituality that we've

Rejected and so you would used to go walk into a church and you'd be amazed that You know the stained glass and the organ music and I mean it brought your soul to heaven just the architecture and now without those

Those experiences quite as much and and with rejecting that and saying that's not true We're our souls are yearning for it somewhere else and that and this is where demons have filled in the gap

I mean, maybe that's overly simplistic. Do you think that's a fair way to look at it? And and does that correspond with some of these?

Experiences people have where they've been abducted and they say that they've seen aliens Hmm No, you've hit the nail on the head.

There's no question that many people are turning away from traditional religion

Christianity amongst other things In my book again the movie

I mentioned sociologists that have turned around and said that you follow G the study of UFOs has become a substitute religion

Because we get back to those three questions Well, if aliens created us or if they can tell us who created us answer the question one

They can give us meaning and purpose and as I said in their writings, they have their own eschatology they have this kind of Nirvana utopian world in the future and You said earlier on to that in science fiction

We've gone away from the bad boy aliens to now. They've been overseeing us overseeing our revolution looking at us

Etc. I called them the space brothers continually throughout the book That's not consistent with their behavior and this leads us into abductees, you know when

People have these experiences They're often told Let me go back there's something we can use to determine it and it's used in the

UFO realm It's called the classic abduction Syndrome the CAS and there are like the markers

There's up to eight not everybody has all eight, but even I use them when I talk to people to say

Was there missing time? Did you see a light? Were you told things we told you a special were you given a mission and a job and That is something that John Mack former professor of Harvard Medical School Who's one of the foremost researchers in the abduction realm?

He's deceased now Former Pulitzer Prize winning author. We have some clips from him in the movie

But he says that they basically become evangelists for their cause After the experience now the experience can be really really traumatic and he noticed that he almost called them rape like interventions because people have these

Sexual encounters and it kind of often surprises people that when I'm using the

CAS to talk to them and I kind of thinking Okay, I think this person's had a genuine experience and I'll often say

Did you have experiences of a sexual nature and I'm not exaggerating you can almost see their jaw drop

How did you know that because of the shame? They've never told anybody You know, it's not exactly well, you know,

I go to the office tomorrow and we're having a cup of water around the water cooler Oh, let me tell you what happened last night

I was abducted by aliens and I've even visited Zeta Reticuli and you know

I was probed with blunt objects, etc. So here's the thing. Here's the rub If they really have been overseeing our evolution and they've got concern for us

Why do they stealthily abduct people in the middle of the night? Subject them to gross

Abusive methods and the secular researchers will tell you that and they try to excuse it but if they've really been overseeing us and they understand the humankind don't they understand these things are deleterious to the human spirit

Why why do people come out with post -traumatic? Syndrome after it, you know, they might say and I kind of use this term in the book

Well, perhaps they don't say please on Pleiades, etc. That's not an excuse If they care about humans, they should understand humans

And why are they secretly hiding and masquerading their intention? And in fact nick redfern who's a modern ufo guru.

He's written over 40 books. We have him in the alien intrusion movie He will tell you quite candidly, you know, and he's not a christian.

No, he's admitted that to us He would say they are masquerading their true intent

You go back to dr. Jacques valet one of the lead researchers in the 1980 he and dr

J. Allen heinrich presented research to the united nations He clearly doesn't believe that they're aliens visiting us from another planet

We got a quote in the movie and said he'd be disappointed if they were He thinks there's something much more interesting

But more and more researchers are saying that when it comes to the abduction scenario They're lying

They're hurting people. They're hiding their true intent this is completely incongruous with the idea that they're here looking after us and There are been you know benefactors of the human species um, even

Psychotherapists who hypnotize people who claim they've been abducted try to use hypnotic regression to go back

Will clearly state that what they what people are being told are lies

So there is this weight of evidence From the experiences themselves from the ufo researchers themselves

That say it's deceptive It's hurting people even though people excuse it by saying well i've been told i'm special So therefore

I need to put up with what's being done to me um If I could share an example, it was one of the first interviews i'd ever done

After my book came out. I was in the us and I went on coast to coast. You probably know that show

Um still runs to this day. It deals with bigfoot and all sorts of strange stuff And I was interviewed for three hours and we had talk back

And the first guy came on board and he said i've been listening to you. Mr. Bates And i've been an abductee since my childhood it's been happening regularly and I thought oh here he goes

He's going to tell me. I don't know what i'm talking about and he turned around and he says I just never thought of it that way.

He said you're right He said they don't love me like they claim they they treat me really bad

They abuse me. I I have to put up with it and they tell me it's some part of some greater cause he said

Why haven't I seen it before? He said of course they and I went wow You know

That was amazing just listening to me and what I said was the weight of evidence of how

You know, they abuse people. I mean The sexual exploits, you know, I don't want to go into the details.

It's It's disgraceful. It's disgusting It's it's abusive

And they should know that people don't fare too well when these things um

Are done are done to them. So That's why I said at the beginning we need to have empathy

When we meet these people you can't turn around and say oh, it didn't really happen to to you

Let me tell you it's demonic and they're deceiving because they've had a real experience And it might not be real in terms of being on a spaceship and going to another planet

There's a way that we can explain all those false memories but In terms of them believing they had a real experience absolutely

And and people do see things in the sky and they do appear on radar and they do change shape

And sometimes they've landed on the ground and they've left impressions. But again, it's exactly what we should expect from the spiritual realm because the bible explains that Things that can appear and manifest physically in our realm

And deceptively that's why the old testament is full of warnings. Do not seek after the heavenly host do not go after The starry host

And here's the rub um, you know, I was asked a question the other day about The witch of endor do you remember that story in the bible where saul saul is jealous of david he's getting paranoid

And he's banned spiritists and mediums in the land and then what does saul go and do he goes after one?

And it says the prophet samuel appears When everybody says well, it's a demonic manifestation, etc.

I actually believe it's a case and and god You know, we're not to seek after these things, but god obviously super intends all of it

Because the witch turns around and says what have you done? Certainly. It's not one of her familiar spirits

And the bible says samuel says samuel says so clearly it is the spirit of samuel

And samuel makes a prophecy about saul that he's going to die on the battlefield the next day

Well demons and angels can't predict the future. Only god can do that right, but the the the moral of the story is

These things exist and if you want to seek after them You'll get them that's what saul did

But it might not be good for you And it might be also deceptive and if you want to seek after the supernatural if you want to seek after Fallen spirits if you want to seek after angels anything in the supernatural realm

God is not saying it doesn't exist. It's there And you'll probably get plenty of it and that's what we find in the ufo realm some of the contactees desire it

They think they're special And they are in regular contact I believe with supernatural entities

It was interesting in the book you talk about how some of the names of these aliens parallel ancient gods that the false gods the israelites had to deal with from all over the world, you know transcending language barriers

And geographic barriers people are claiming the same names keep coming up which

I I thought that was one of the strongest pieces of evidence that This is demonic but One of the things

I think that play that that's important for christians to understand about this is If it is in fact demonic, which

I think it is and that's what you advocate A good experiment would be what happens when someone actually becomes a christian who's talking to you know

A bale or some to some demon It would certainly change things and you do chronicle that so you've talked to some of these people what happens when they go from being

Having these interactions to now. They are a christian with the holy spirit and when that experience

Happens they run to scripture they run to god. I mean, uh, does it change what happens?

Does it stop the experience from taking place? I mean because there might be people listening who have this and they're saying what can cure me what can

Like get me out of this Well again, yes, you're right um

First part of that was all of these names of gods like baal and ashtaroth etc or asherah in various forms, um

The names of a lot of these ancient gods were also names of planets That took different form we're seeing that again the starry host you see

It's kind of weird john satan Is a fallen angel obviously a very powerful and intelligent being

And you kind of wonder why they can't get their stories straight I wonder how much control

In fact, he might have over those that fell with him Because i've met abductees who say for example,

I had this encounter in roswell with the lead mufon investigator There that's saying well

Jesus is just you know an advanced extraterrestrial and he's showing us the way one of the ways to god but of course all the religions

Have different views so they can't all be Correct, can they

I mean Either they're all wrong or only one of them can be correct because if they disagree with each other

I mean i've heard people say our creators come from the pleiades or um zeta reticuli

You know or sirius Etc. Well, they can't all be our creators for example.

So Clearly people are giving a mishmash of information And again, that's where I found

I can unpick it because when I talk to them I can say well How can that be true? because You know joe blow over here.

He's got a different version of origins Is he right? And and here's what we need to understand the experience can be real

And so we tend to think that this the information that comes with the experience therefore must also be real

But you can have a real experience that can be Deceptive and people have had that throughout the ages again.

The bible records those types of things so What's the simple answer and sometimes

I think we really really over complicate scripture There's a very very fundamental battle going on that started back in the garden of eden we can understand from the book of you know daniel, for example where he prays and Three weeks later an angel appears and he says i've been fighting against the prince of persia

I think it is for for three weeks or something like that. I might be paraphrasing it very badly Here's something jesus said

About the devil. He said he is a liar the father of lies

There is no truth in him And quite simply if we've ever met somebody that we know is kind of a pathological liar

Eventually you're able to poke holes in their stories because everything just becomes a great charade or masquerade to build up To to cover up what is a fundamental lie?

somewhere along the line And I think this is what we see happening uh in the spiritual realm

People become convinced by the false narrative that they they get

So the second part of that what happens when people become christians? Well in the book and in the movie you will hear and it's quite traumatic.

I'm sure if you remember the movie listening to these people Yes Who we've asked to recount their experiences are now christians, but even recounting it was so traumatic that they they break down and cry

Because they realized they were being used and violated by You know fallen angels, uh spiritual forces

But In the u .s in particular we have a much stronger christian background or basis

Than we might see in most western other western countries and so a lot of these

People in the middle of their experience, you know, perhaps they'd grown up growing to church and they perhaps abandoned it

But they were terrified And in their moment of horror And sometimes this is being paralyzed in bed

Being unable to move they could just utter the words jesus Or jesus help me

And they said that in that instant the experience left them the little

Beings that were stood at the bottom of their bed disappeared Etc. Now that doesn't mean it stopped in its tracks

And sometimes it may try to manifest again and try it on again Now There are millions of people who've had these experiences

But now we've got over 400 cases that i'm aware of Where people who've called out on the name of jesus?

Said a prayer sang a hymn done something to resort to Some sense of solitude or appealing to help to a greater force

Has stopped these experiences in its tracks. So what does that tell us about the spiritual nature?

Of what is happening and then once that happens if it manifests itself again, they know that there is actually power

In the name of jesus because if the bible is true and jesus is the creator as we will read in colossal colossians one

He has authority and power also over these spiritual beings because he is the one that created them

And again, it fits the the view that modern researchers have come to that the experiences is coming from another realm

Or a dimension and certainly something Is happening there. Let me just share something.

I haven't shared with people very much and it's in my own book I mentioned I didn't get saved until I was an adult

I was right into science fiction. I certainly wasn't working for the ministry at this time And I had one of those experiences in my bed now, sometimes it masquerades as aliens

And what i'm about to say john I know from experience Lots and lots of people have had it so i'm sharing it for the benefit of those listening if you've had this experience

Or something like it I was in my room I'd only just given my life to the lord a few days before I was super excited about my newfound faith

I was lying in bed and all of a sudden I had what they call sleep paralysis, which the skeptics try to explain away as some psychological or chemical condition

But I saw a black object in my room didn't have any shape It was like just a black hole the way

I described it. I couldn't see any light through it I could look to the left and see my room. I could look to the right

But I was paralyzed and then it descended upon me and I thought it was going to smother my face I remember grasping for air and then it moved down and it grabbed my throat

And I had this physical sense of being choked I tried to utter words out.

I couldn't even speak probably I just had these groans in my sleep, but I just said jesus

Help me And that instant it left me So what is it about my non -christian?

Well, I only just become a christian But something was obviously trying it on in my newfound faith

I had no concept really of the spiritual realm. I was an evolutionist Something happened to me, but I was excited about jesus

I called on him And I was rescued in that moment And it took me a long time for me to kind of understand talking with mature christians about What was happening and then as of course

I entered the ufo realm the research and i've heard just dozens and dozens of experiences

That are similar to this if people want to go my fellow collaborator joe jordan

Who appears in the movie a former? Evolutionist skeptic an investigator for mufon who didn't come from a christian background

By looking at the nature of abductions He and his collaborator at the time said

Why are these why are I why are? Aliens frightened of the name of jesus

Because they came across this evidence themselves. It doesn't make sense You know one of the guys in the movie said, you know this mythical Biblical character that some people think didn't really exist.

Why are aliens frightened of him? So they started to research more And they took themselves off to a new christian's bible study group to try to find out what it was in their words

What it was about christians that aliens didn't like But then they started to see the spiritual realm and the spiritual connection in the bible he he got saved

He later became a pastor was ordained at his church He worked in south korea with the u .s.

Government and for mufon mutual ufo Network the world's largest clearinghouse for ufo investigations.

He became the head researcher in in south korea at the time He's now back in in the u .s.

Having retired continuing research But if people go to look him up joe jordan

Ce4 research they'll find his website. They've got lots and lots of testimonies

That i've just just described there. These are ones where people will allow themselves to be identified

Obviously for a lot of people they don't want themselves identified on there We have someone in channel right now brian babes podcast says i've experienced something like that when you call jesus it goes away

Immediately and I can testify friends that share similar experiences. I have myself had similar experiences.

I haven't shared but uh Yeah, I wonder how common it is. I know I i've read that especially in children that this kind of thing happens and of course they explain it away but uh

But it certainly fits the alien abduction scenario as well. There seems to be a parallel there um, and and i'm just so grateful that you've done this research because Someone needed to do it.

Someone needed to uh from a biblical understanding approach this and you've done a phenomenal job people can go

Um, like I said at the beginning to alien intrusion dot -com, I believe it is alien intrusion .com

create creation .com is I mean alienfusion .com was created for the movie in the book, but right

Um, the main resource is creation .com and there's uh, you you can go to the q a section

There's a whole category on aliens ufo all the key articles there You can buy the book you can stream the movie from our store

Um, etc. So, um alien intrusion. Yes, there's a portal to get the book and the movie

But if people have questions, they just got to type it into the search engine on creation .com and there's lots of articles including

If they type in the term government ufos, there's some up -to -date articles there about what the government um

Is revealing but I just want to encourage people Be careful of the testimonies you hear that always sound convincing um nasa

Astronauts have seen things Yes, they have It doesn't mean that aliens exist and we're being visited by extraterrestrials

Um, there's an article on the website john that says over 80 percent of americans. It was a cnn time poll at time warner poll

Claim that over 80 percent of americans believe that aliens have either visited us

Uh in the past or are currently visiting us That's a staggering amount and that must also obviously include a lot of christians

We need to be grounded and be sure of god's word um, because I mean

How do we know about jesus? How do we know that we're sinners? How do we know what it is to be saved? We get that information from the bible

But if the bible's testimony in its early chapters is wrong, where does the truth begin I I think

We are faced with the issue of we either believe all of it or none of it Jesus believed in an adam and eve.

He believed in a global flood To be frank that's good enough for me well on that note,

I just want to close with um, I feel like I would be negligent if I didn't say this that Uh for those who might be listening who have had these experiences or or still

Struggle to believe whether there's aliens or not. Um The the main problem the bible says that we have is not aliens visiting us

Who who might do bad things to us? It's not what we're doing to ourselves Uh by you know polluting the planet and that aliens have to prevent us from doing that or something.

It's actually our sin Right and and the bible has an answer for this uh in the redemptive work of jesus christ and that that is the um, that that is the key to Stopping these experiences if those are having them.

Um, I see great evangelism potential here gary And I know people can order your dvd or your book and give it to friends

Uh as because the gospel is presented in that the good news that jesus christ has come to save the world

Those those who are his own from their sins but um, are there any tracks are there any materials that are uh,

Maybe a little less expensive that churches can order. I don't know if you have that material to give to people on the subject absolutely, um

So we have a little booklet. Um, are we being visited by extraterrestrials?

But the alien intrusion movie if people look on the store, we have sleeved dvds

And they're specifically designed for giving away. Uh, forgive me. I think they're about two dollars each

Oh, well, that's pretty so with the in fact, we just had devotions in the office, uh this morning before before I came on to Speak to you

And one of our ladies our front desk ladies just says since the government it's uh

You know been releasing this stuff and in the last few days, as I said, i've received lots of emails There's been a huge uptake in the book

And the dvd for people seeking answers and christians wanting to get it into the hands Of somebody else and uh,

I you know, it's encouraging because You know, you have hundreds and hundreds of people uh

Taking up resources, but every now and then you get some encouragement. I mean a man wrote in last week

He just ordered 150 of those sleeve dvds And he said to me Uh, your movie changed my life

Wow so folks don't underestimate the power because If I could say in closing one of the things

I never expected, uh John when I got into this is, you know, when we go to churches and we talk about creation evolution

Obviously we are really standing up against the secular Scientific interpretation of our origins how the world the universe began.

We're a scientific organization So it's not like we're trying to be unscientific, but but that's the government mandated view

But i've had so many people say gary when I heard you speak Um, I had that experience.

It was like that What we need to do as christians as I said earlier is have an empathetic approach

And that is we've got to love people into the kingdom first and foremost, even if we disagree with their scientific views

Even if we think they've been affected spiritually it's no point just jumping in their face and saying you're wrong you're wrong because To them it's real

And so when you can show or give them something that says yes, I understand what happened to you

Oh boy, what a difference that can make uh, because As I said, you know when

I appeared on coast to coast that young man the first caller He said it was just like you said and I never saw it like that before These people are marginalized

And not just the abductees people who've seen stuff they're frightened christians can see it because sometimes thousands of people see objects up there

And that include christians and because we're in the church we're a little bit frightened to tell others because somebody might think oh what's going on in his life and there's all this baggage that we

Put on to people at times john and you know Why did I become a christian?

It wasn't because I believe the bible I responded to the love of christ You know his spotlight came upon me and I realized there were things wrong in my life things that I needed to get right and Everybody has that baggage

And including people who've never been able to talk to somebody else When they can see that we have the answer that christ is the answer and the bible can explain these things

And put a stop to it for those who are being more seriously affected so empathize with people

Uh share a resource with them. The resource itself will say to them We understand

Yeah, that was excellent. Thank you. Gary for stopping by for being willing to discuss this

Uh, and I just once again encourage everyone go to creation .com support creation ministries international get resources there

That help answer some of these questions God bless you. Gary. Thank you. John and thank you for doing what you're doing and bringing this into the spotlight.