Follow-up: Mormon Says All Religions Lead to God

Apologia Utah

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00:00

Did you think a little bit more about what we talked about or not really?

00:05

Yeah, I'm not gonna say I'm super open -minded Yeah, I don't know man,

00:12

I just think the the pantheistic all roads lead to God that is that's kind of a

00:18

That's the zeitgeist. That's the cultural thing. I'm surprised that even you wouldn't say there's an exclusivity like you're probably just LDS Yeah, yeah

00:27

So definitely not agree with you. Yeah Like 20 years ago. I mean, I think there's a huge because I went to a school right up the street here

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I'm called Heritage Academy. Yeah, which is right on the cross. It's a lot of LDS people. Yeah Yeah, so that was like my first kind of interaction with my classmates and hasn't been around that long

00:46

Yeah, it was like well, yeah, he's 50 Yeah But it's like sometimes it's like yeah,

00:54

I wish I could put the Mormons I what's classmates with and people today's side -by -side

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It's night and day between the level of postmodern or emulating Pontius Pilate of what is truth?

01:07

Versus being exclusive back then. They're just telling me like yeah, you're a Gentile you're apostate and they go right into Joseph Smith history and talk about the falling away.

01:17

There's a whole there's a whole I mean you can see it culturally, but in our church like Yeah, yeah, there's a big gap between like the world view

01:29

Yeah, I think there's a big I think one of the pivotal points was in Gordon B Hinckley was on 60 minutes and he got pushed into like do you believe that you can become a god one day and He gonna said well, it's just really a deep doctrine.

01:42

We don't really know too much about was kind of being that's an honest answer Yeah I think what a general conference talks.

01:51

They don't really act that way But I think that change in regards to just sort of being like subjective and not really being as open and having an open stance

02:03

So yeah, there's been a huge. There's been a huge postmodern shift. I think I Think a lot of that has to do with just the informational availability, you know, yeah

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There's a lot of different Areas you can get information from especially within our yeah about our own religion.

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Yeah Where you're at a little bit with the LDS like you probably see I'm not a huge information seeker to be honest

02:27

Like I'm not that's not kind of my thing. I'm not like into like Deciding what this truth here.

02:32

What is truth there? I don't know I kind of more just because some people have we meet we have met some people and even some in Salt Lake City who've gone

02:40

Dude I know you're talking. I know those false prophecies. I know, you know, the origins are

02:48

There's a little crazy and and he was a money digger and practice a cultic stuff and like I don't care

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The reality is what I'm experiencing now is it's this and and my family and stuff

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So if the foundation is crumbled, they don't they don't care. Yeah, they're detached from That kind of doctrinal from the origins, yeah

03:08

I mean, it's not a whole lot different than you would experience with a lot of like, I don't know European Catholics are Right.

03:14

It's like it's it there's a culture and a and a society Yeah structure that that is working for a lot of people and they appreciate that kind of community.

03:25

Yeah And it works for some people but yeah, it can be problematic when you kind of run into other things

03:30

We're like we're talking about Yeah, and I think I mentioned that a little bit when I was talking about like I have my own ways of reconciling

03:37

All of that, you know what? I mean? Yeah, I remember that and I think that's kind of has to be individual to each person

03:42

Well at the end of the day like that's why we would all agree that we have the Word of God to stand on Scriptures are changing.

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Yes, you know, so where you have the Book of Mormon that has changed and your prophets and prophecies that have changed

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And there's there's no stability. There's nothing You know, that's why they keep changing there's it often bows to even the culture or whatever, you know

04:03

The government saying you can see where I cheat and I don't really that's not my foundation. Yeah You're an inconsistent

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I'm pretty detached from all of that. Like what you know, so So then what do you think's gonna happen when you die?

04:17

As far as the religion the church or my family I don't know. I honestly don't know

04:24

You know what I mean, like I'm not gonna yeah sit here and pretend like I have these answers to things I don't have answers to you know what

04:30

I mean? Committed suicide about 10 years ago, you know, and I started reconcile a lot of those thoughts where yeah, what is happening?

04:39

Um, I had a deep desire to feel connected to her at that time, even though she was passed I was able to feel that connection.

04:45

I don't know if that necessarily means that I believe that my relationship with her After this life is gonna be what it wasn't.

04:53

Yeah, I don't know. I can't say that. I can't say that. I know I'm sorry to hear that. No, it's all right It's you know, it's happens its life and we all have opportunities to kind of grow and better ourselves through going through those sorts of things

05:03

And I don't know I feel more empathetic towards. Yeah certain people in certain situations and so you

05:09

So even though you you don't have certainty you like to ride that wave you there's you live in uncertainty

05:17

Right, you live in all truths are possible. You can't really know anything and you're okay with that It works for me and I and I totally understand how that doesn't work for some people.

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Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah, for example, like most of the people I tend church with that doesn't vibe with them, right? I'm not gonna be outspoken about My point of view and that and that and my kind of loosey -goosey

05:39

Yeah Interpretation of things because I think that would be problematic and upsetting to a lot of I mean within my own family sure, like it's it's just I don't know

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I'd like the way I describe it, it's like some people

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Have a different Comfort level of approaching the edge of like a cliff and I see that like is approaching a viewpoint of Truth per se, you know what?

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I mean? Like some people are like I don't I feel very unstable and I don't feel comfortable approaching this edge of this cliff anymore

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I don't want to peer over my view from here is just fine And some people are like no, I want to see more I want to approach the edge of the cliff and there's more

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I want to understand and comprehend I think that's okay if someone's cut more comfortable here from this viewpoint and That's where their comfort level and their happiness is and that's how they function in their faith.

06:32

I Can't have a problem with that per se If I'm more comfortable in a more dangerous

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Position for the members of the church is like, oh you don't want to you don't want to approach hmm anti -mormon doctrine

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You don't want to approach like these informational inconsistencies because it's gonna you might tumble.

06:52

It's gonna rock your faith Yeah, you might lose your faith. I'm like, I'm I'm secure and I'm comfortable in my position

06:58

Yeah, I like what I see. I like the perspective it gives me But I can respect that you're not comfortable there and you want to keep your perspective from here

07:06

That's what's safe for you. Yeah, I can't really judge And we would say that yeah

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Yeah, as far as when we stand before God we're all gonna have to give an account someday and you can't And it's not gonna fly with him with well,

07:25

I just didn't want to investigate it further Like that's not like he said, here's my truth. Yeah accept it or not

07:32

You're either you know, and it's all respect. Yeah, what you're saying is not any different than what

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I hear in there It's just it's just kind of a different Direction it's coming from an opposite. I see.

07:43

You know what I mean? Yeah, like you like talking about the Bible and God and did it and there is

07:48

Joseph Smith Book of Mormon that it it's I'm just comfortable Straddling that and I understand that a lot of people are well, but I'm just gonna sit squarely right on the fence

07:58

Yeah, well, let's let's for example just for thinking about it The Bible clearly states in Deuteronomy 18 1 false prophecy false prophet must reject them

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So if Joseph Smith has a false prophecy saying that Jesus Christ is going to come back on the scene

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Yay, within 56 years should he wind back up on the scene doesn't happen speaking through the Lord I must reject him and again in Deuteronomy 13

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There's another test of a prophet that says if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and produces miracles signs and wonders

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But leads you after other gods gods, which you have not known do not believe them So there's a certainty of truth and who

08:30

God is and how he's revealed to us in his character So yeah, the LDS Church if they're teaching that Jesus Christ hasn't eternally been

08:36

God But he's the offspring of Elohim in one of his goddess wives Yeah right that's different than the

08:41

Jesus Christ of Scripture who in Colossians 1 says he created all things on heaven and on earth visible and Invisible so presented with a different Jesus and I'd say you'd probably say

08:50

Jesus has some authority, right? Maybe as a great teacher, you don't really understand my beliefs of Jesus He's saying all that doesn't matter

08:59

I'm really like that's not what that's not my my foundation. That's not where I'm coming from No, I totally get that it's very important to you guys that to to To mark the differences here and and I get that but it's like for me

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I'm saying for me personally, it's it's very unimportant For example, we're talking about the person of Christ you have

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Colossians 1 you have Hebrews 1 you have John 1 Those are all passages that talk about the person of Christ and in those passages

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We're told that he's creator of all things that he's this we would differentiate right? We would say hey, this is the

09:43

Jesus We believe yeah, I say something else but also in in John It's the same place that tells us that Jesus is the

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Great Shepherd that he's the one who gives his sheep eternal life and John 8 he said that if you commit sin, you're a slave to sin, but if the

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Son sets you free you're free indeed So there's all these promises attached to Jesus and Hebrews. He's a great priest.

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He's a great prophet and Colossians He's the one who takes our record of debt all of our sin But if we go back to Colossians 1

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Hebrews 1 and John 1 and we lose Jesus there Then you lose the rest of the promises throughout the rest of the scripture

10:16

So so if we lose Jesus at John 1, you don't have him at John 10. Sure. Anyway, he says this is my sheep

10:22

I give him eternal life. You don't have Jesus in John 8 where he says I set you free You don't have him in Colossians where we know you say you're comfortable, bro

10:28

But all of us have sin that's guilty before God that in Colossians says there's legal demands

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Yes legal demands it so you lose Jesus there. And so I think like yes, there's a

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Fundamental difference, but it matters because there's eternal way to it. Sure. There's a guilty like I get

10:45

I get that's that's what's important you do but I just I Mean, I haven't

10:50

I haven't read a scripture Bible Book of Mormon on my own accord like Wow You guys are just it's a totally different approach to me and I'm not saying

11:06

I'm not speaking for anyone there. Yeah Like this this conversation would be just as absurd to them as it is to you so Anyways, yeah, but we care about you because Jesus says he says unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins

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Very clear about where people go when they die Yeah first comes death then comes the judgment to be absent from the bodies to be present with the

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Lord and that's where you're going There's a reason why you're alive. There's a reason why we die. The wages of sin is death

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I mean Romans chapter 1 clearly states that the evidence of God is all around us But instead we suppress the truth and unrighteousness and we end up worshiping the creation

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Instead of the Creator. Mm -hmm. So Spencer, what if you're worshiping a god of your own creation? Not the one that can save you very likely.

11:49

I think I think that's where you're at my friend. Yeah We want you to know who Jesus is because he's a real person that came and died on a cross and he rose again

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My answer that though would be I'm not so sure that Others aren't disillusioned and thinking otherwise that meaning that they like No offense, but I think

12:08

I could say just the same for you I know that you're describing something that you have a faith of But I mean,

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I think that you're just as capable of disillusionment as I am in this instance, right? And I think it's very likely that I'm choosing a reality and a faith

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That suits me why I would say that that comfort that eases my psychology Well, no, I would say the reality is that you're choosing something.

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That means that life is all purposeless that you're nothing It sounds like it from your faith viewpoint, but no that is not

12:40

I would never say that Okay, so you would say then that there is a truth out there. You just don't know what it is

12:46

Yeah, it's a very agnostic approach. It's like, you know, I mean, I'm absolutely certain about that because I know that means without knowledge

12:53

So but you're certainly certain of not having knowledge Yeah, I'm certainly I'm certainly aware that I am unaware.

12:59

Well, it's a logical contradict I'm aware that I am unaware. So you're fully certain that you can't know exactly

13:05

Yeah, it's I can't even say that. I totally understand my thought process. I like I'm not out here in any capacity

13:12

Looking to yeah, you're having a conversation with us. We appreciate it. Totally. I just I mean, honestly, I just I don't know

13:18

I hope you guys are having a good I Don't know you're here getting what you want to get.

13:24

Yeah What did you want to say brother? Well to respond to what you said, we're called to do this

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That's up. I totally agree. You know if there if there is a gospel that saves We confidently that this is the gospel saves that we are willing to come here

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And preach against a false gospel because it's for the salvation of souls This is not a matter of feeling this is not a matter of you know

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Living a comfortable life and being part of a you know organization that really seems to do good in the world

13:54

You know, there's only one way one truth one life and that's through Jesus Christ Mm -hmm and to know him is you know that that's a matter of life and death

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Yeah, if you know, you know, she said there are many who come, you know in my name But few will know me

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And many that will come to me and call me master, but I will say Get away from me.

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I do not know you and and where are they going? They're going to hell sure So like this is a very important thing, you know

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Like we know we've been called by God to do this and we're here in faith Knowing that there's only one gospel that saves and by the preaching the gospel souls are saved

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Uh -huh. That's how salvation salvation comes by hearing the Word of God and reading the

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Word of God renews your mind So if we suppress the truth in the false gospel We might like that makes sense because we know the only way that we our minds are renewed is by reading the

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Word of God that literally Transforms our heart that gives us faith to come out here boldly and saying that you have a false gospel

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Your gospel is an abomination The Word of God even says that the gospel that you are preaching the foundations is a truth

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But you destroy that you destroy the way of life by following another

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God Yeah, and and and to know who God is that Jesus is God It's a very it's a salvific change than knowing that you're a latter -day saint of Jesus Christ Like how does that even make sense?

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If you don't know who Jesus Christ is if you got Jesus wrong the whole you got everything wrong Yeah, and it's so important man to just you know, that's why we give these to you guys.

15:27

Yeah, because it's a self It's literally it's a matter of Eternity in hell or heaven.

15:33

I totally get that and you guys you guys feel Compelled and I understand you're following your conscience and I I love all in when you when you're here.

15:40

What are you following? What am I following? I'm I'm trying to be a good citizen to my community community

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I'm trying to be a good family matter member and I'm doing I'm trying to provide what is available to me and my my family

15:53

What is it to a man though? Gains the world, you know, and he loses his soul like like Jesus said unless you know, you know

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I mean, I think there's plenty of people in here and I think there's plenty of people in this group that are totally capable of Losing their soul despite all of our channel if our souls are not

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Doing on our own works by by the grace of God has been a gift to us.

16:15

Yeah grace grace is an important aspect Is everything if we have that wrong we have everything

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I mean you guys are you guys are displaying your works in this act right? here being here today going out of your way and taking time to Do what you feel like you're calling our faith in our works

16:30

We're not displaying our I got some questions of curiosity for you guys. How many or if any are

16:38

X members of the church or had been members of the church or what? What is your exposure to we?

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Yeah, there was one gentleman we have about what now Eight to ten

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I think X LDS in our church now we were planting we're planting a church

16:57

We're planting a church in Utah to reach them Apology, yeah

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Yeah, we have a big online ministry You could even see our pastor does a lot of conversations at the

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Easter pageant stuff like that. Gotcha. So yeah, that's that's our you know what we've seen here and then how much of It I mean obviously there's attention specifically to this to this faith to this religion.

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Is there similar attention to other? Oh, yeah Oh, yeah. Yeah, so that's Yeah, I'm sure

17:37

I'm sure you guys are just as interested in everyone but I'm saying it's your whole like targeting a specific faith Is it just the

17:43

LDS faith or are there other faiths that you guys? Feel Important though, because it's a misrepresentation of who

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Jesus Christ is like you're your title of your organization is literally the Latter -day Saints of Jesus Christ, so it's particularly we are

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Addressing it's not even offensive to us. It's it's it's wrong. It's an abomination Express that yeah.

18:08

Yeah, I think that's your question is if we were in a community with a whole bunch of witnesses We would be doing the same, right?

18:15

We're trying to break into that and going to Kingdom Halls and to be because of your cultural context This is important as opposed to well.

18:22

Yeah This is the third, you know, the Arizona's the third highest for LDS people in the country after Utah and Idaho, yep, so this is a big deal to us and Yeah, I mean

18:37

We love you guys at the end of the day. We really do I don't question that of course would it be if all you know, all of us were meant were a part of one church

18:47

Yep, I and you know, and you know Spencer like what I'm hearing too is you have I believe you know

18:52

You're created in the image of God. So you want things like love you want things like goodness? But I think with all due respect in your worldview.

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I don't think you can actually have certainty that love is a good thing You you don't know for absolute certain you're without knowledge in that sense

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But I say you're contradicting your own worldview because you have to think about this Nothing, I really it's because you're made in the image of God.

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You can't not want it, right? That's what the Bible says, but we suppress that truth and unrighteousness. I want you to conquer that idol my friend

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I want you to bow the knees the true and living God says if you hear his voice today Do you not harden your heart in the wilderness?

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It says in Hebrews Don't be like that generation who wandered and then died off. Yeah, you can have salvation today

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You can know truth in its certainty because truth is a person and that was Jesus Christ Spencer That's what

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I want for you. My friend appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you for your concern. Yes. Yeah, we honestly man,

19:42

I Hearing you I feel for you because I I don't know what you actually have faith in you know

19:49

It seems like there's futility pretty fluid vanity. Yeah. Yeah, it's just You know,

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I want to have Yeah Crisis called everyone experiences that yeah, it's a manifestation of the of the

20:07

God we worship in Psalm It says that we become like the gods the idols we craft So your God's very fluid you're eventually going to be too