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Drew has a discussion on Christian nationalism while Andrew is away.
Campaigning yeah, so I am seeing yes drew your YouTube is not on. Yeah, I I mean, I don't know how to do that through any of this. That's an Andrew thing. It says it's checked on YouTube up here. I know nothing about that.
Let me just check. Yeah, it says everything's linked. I guess it's not. No clue about that, sorry guys, sorry head on over to Facebook and check it out on Facebook. Are you using StreamYard? I am using StreamYard.
Yes. But so so indictments went out. They're trying to. To get him to spend all his time in court not campaigning. Which is interesting because even with all this stuff continuing to come out. He's still the Republican front-runner.
He's he's still killing everybody in the polls. So he probably doesn't even need to campaign anyway, but they're gonna be talking about. Trying to get him on overturning the election and the fact that they indicted him means that now they get to argue for election fraud in court and.
That is exactly what Trump wanted in the first place. He wanted to be able to go before the courts and present evidences of election fraud. So they're giving him exactly what he wanted so that this can come out in court to show election fraud.
It'll be interesting to see what happens. But Drew, let's see. Okay, yeah, thanks John for clarifying that in the comments. I see we have a guest backstage. I don't know this guest, but let's bring him on Dave Pratt.
How you doing, yeah good man, how you doing. Pretty good pretty good. What's up?
Sorry, just to me up. Um, I just thought it to come and have a look because I actually. For how long now? I would listen to you guys on through Spotify. Mm-hmm, and.
I'm actually in Australia. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I I can slightly tell. Because yeah, but bluey is is my favorite show. Yeah, it's uh, it's pretty good. My kids love it. Yeah, my one-year-old when it's on he will just sit there and even though we've seen every single episode a hundred times he's like.
No, it's um, you have been yet. Started getting out of you guys. I know how long ago probably about two months ago or so. So I'm a whole truck operator, so I drive those big mine trucks and in it. We can just put out, you know USBs on or you know, touch your phone to listen to things.
So I just been listening to you guys and it's um, I've been finding a very encouraging and very informative. Yeah, it's been really good. So I thought off while I'm here. Actually, I was on night work last night and I was playing around on your site and I thought oh What does this button do.
I'll give it a go and and obviously now here I'm. I Didn't expect you guys to be actually on at the moment. That's all.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so so our time for for broadcasting is Thursday nights and because I Are you in the future? So is it Friday? It's it's 10 a .m. Friday. Okay. Yeah, so so our time would be American Thursday 8 o 'clock.
Till I think 10 o 'clock. I think that's usually when we go. So so yeah, it's so it's 10 a .m. There. Yeah. 10 a .m. Yeah or 10. Oh wait. Yeah. Wow. Nice so so when you're when you're listening like Do you have others around you that are also listening that no, it's just just me by myself in the truck.
Okay, so it's a 12-hour shift. Yeah, so it's like I listen to yourself and say like, you know messages where they'd be like from Steve Lawson John McArthur RC Sproul.
All those guys. Okay. Yeah, that's a good group to listen to for sure. Yeah, Todd frill Ray Comfort. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's good so. So are you active in your church.
There in Australia what part of Australia are you. In our New South Wales, so I'm in a town called Musselbrook. Okay, and that's about three hours north of Sydney. Okay. Yep I've been. I found a church finally at Singleton Baptist, which is actually half an hour south and The preacher there was actually is quite good.
Pretty surname. We said it first names Andrew. And my first Sermon there that I listened to he brought up solar scripture. Okay, and that and this best sermon was about you know Putting off your old self and putting on the new and all that sort of stuff.
And I've said to them as well I was encouraging them if I wasn't sitting down I would have fallen over that's. I was pretty impressed with their sermon. Because I was looking for that standard of like you John MacArthur's and all that sort of stuff and To finally found find someone who has that standard and have that.
Doctrine it was actually quite mind-blowing for me. Now. Is that hard to find there in Australia? Pastor like that a preacher like that. Oh Yeah, I have found it hard.
Mind you my when I grew up my dad was a pastor Baptist pastor. Okay. For 13 years of my life so I sort of have that I have that background and then just to try and find a good church because I'm Lived in Queensland for 12 years and now I'm back down here and trying to find a church around there.
It was just really difficult because you know, they've got all that new. Obviously. They're trying to be popular with their doctrine so whether it be like female preachers or you know same-sex with that sort of stuff and It's a that's quite frustrating so as soon as obviously I'll find out they agree with that or Then I'm just out of there, you know so.
No with this church. I'm going to now. I've been there for now three months. Okay. Yeah often on because of shift work. But it's been quite encouraging and and that's a there's good group of guys there.
Which is good.
So we've just finished Colossians. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that was really good. That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. So so are you getting? So you've been there for three months. Are you getting like plugged in as far as?
Service serving in the church or are you.
Looking for areas within the church to serve. Yeah, I'm looking for areas within the church. So because of my shift work I Pretty much go forward only. So it makes a little bit harder to connect. But I've had you know coffee with the pastor and stuff like that and I went to the they have a men's breakfast Two weeks ago.
I went to that and I had a working be, you know. So you go and help out work at the church and do odd jobs. So I'm trying to get myself involved in that. Next week, hopefully I can go to the church camp.
Which is over a weekend. And then there's a men's conference coming up, which I'm not too sure what day it is. I've got an email, but I haven't read it yet. So I'm hoping to get into that as well. But no, I do want to.
I want to get in involved and but I'm not sure Where God wants me? Because I have like I find it very encouraging listening like to yourself and Andrew and And the guys that I listen to it. It'd be like Todd frill and all that sort of stuff even right company.
You know how they go on streets and preach and stuff like that. And just how they talk to people and I have a real burning and passion a desire to do that. Mm-hmm, but at the same time actually I haven't done Study theology yet, but I want to mm-hmm.
So I was looking at you know, either Ligonieres or John McArthur's one. Is it the master seminary? Yes, sir. Seminary. Yeah. Yeah, I looked at those two and then I'm see, I'm Bits, I don't know. I haven't really found anything in Australia.
The reason being is because my dad actually had a bad experience with Morley College. Which is the Baptist one here. Mm-hmm. I mean things could have changed by them, but just I don't know. I really like The doctrine and everything from obviously where you guys are in the US, right?
Yeah, so. And just trying to fit that in with family and work and trying to so yeah. No, I really want to get out there and do something, but I'm still not sure. Even if I want to be a pastor or not, I'm not sure you know.
Yeah, yeah, that is a it's a high calling. Now as far as learning Theology, I know I want to say on Ligonieres website. I believe they have like courses that you can do for free. So I and I know you can get like DVDs of R .C. Sproul's lectures and stuff on theology on apologetics and everything like that so there's ways where you can you can get all the information and Not have to pay like a tuition.
You can get it for cheap and you know, those are those are really helpful because I know some people that do the Ligonieres stuff just from their websites and They've grown exponentially. So you'd have to I'd have to look to see what the resources are where to actually Exactly find them on the website, but I know they have them and it's basically just Theology courses online for free, you know.
You you can listen to lectures and and they may I think they give you you can print out like a syllabus that has You know recommended books to get. I always recommend going Straight for the Puritans right the Puritan paperbacks.
You can learn in the Puritan paperbacks they are. They're condensed. They're abridged versions of much larger works, but they're easier to digest they're easier to swallow and a lot of them are sermons that have been turned into these books and The theology that they present of course is big God theology but it's Christ exalting and It's just it's works that really hit you in the heart.
That kind of a lay it open to where you lay it before the Lord and you go. I don't even know if I'm a believer, you know reading these some of these guys, especially reading guys like Watson or John Bunyan the Pilgrim's Progress.
Progress is one of my favorite books. I read it all the time. I reference it all the time whenever I'm talking to people. So Puritan paperbacks are a good way to start getting into some of that so that you especially if you're if you are feeling that inkling of Pastoral vocation.
It's a good way to see how The the men that we look up to and how and they're preaching in their theology. How they organize and structured their sermons and how they presented Christ because like you're talking about with a lot of the The preachers in Australia who are trying to be popular.
Right. Yeah, a lot of them probably follow a lot of NAR new apostolic Reformation doctrine the Bethel's and Hill songs and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean being in Australia, I mean, I'm sure. But But you see in their sermons they're trying to be really really popular right and it's it's pragmatic in the sense of we need to do and say whatever work to draw people in so that we can have them keep Coming back and then they look at that as success if you can get more people in.
Then we're sick. Sorry. No problem. But but that's not how we how we measure success in the church right, we measure success in the church by Looking at those whom God has given us to shepherd and say are they growing in holiness?
Are they growing in Christ likeness? Are they growing in the knowledge and understanding of the Lord? Then we know we're doing a good job. That's success and you see that a lot in the Puritan writings.
I love them. And I mean, but also you can get Systematic theologies that that as well for looking up specific doctrines. I have several over there. I Think my favorite though is Puritan theology, of course by Joel Beakey that's definitely my favorite because I'm a big Puritan guy, but.
But those those are some good places to start. I would I would definitely utilize some of the free resources that Ligonier has and I think I think on YouTube the master seminary has a lot of This one KT and Jesus has given a good one.
This is a good one biblical doctrine by MacArthur and Richard Mayhew. That's that that's a really good one actually got that one for my father-in-law I don't know if he's cracked it open yet, though.
But I think the master seminary has some courses on YouTube that you can look up. I think they've got some courses on preaching as well so now when you're talking about Listening to Ray Comfort having a passion for some of these things is your passion like to Do street evangelism go out do street preaching street evangelism.
Is that what I heard, right?
Well, see that's why I'm not sure but I'm not afraid to talk to people about my belief my faith God Jesus, you know. And it was only like Probably a month or so ago. With my job, it's boring as I'm driving around circles move moving dirt.
I do. I do FedEx here. So I totally understand. I'm delivering. It is so boring. I get it. Yeah.
So I was thinking what I want to do like I don't really want to do this. Do I I don't know and Then one of my mates Connie I was talking to him and on my I've got some tattoos and on my forearm. I've got some Hebrew writing and One says it's it's forgiven child of God.
No judgment an amazing grace and so the reason why I got it in Hebrew is because I wanted in a sense for that to be a point of discussion. Okay, so people saw it. I go. Oh, what's that? You know, and then it goes from there.
So Connie saw it and he's actually from Iraq. And he he was a kid. He was actually in Baghdad. And he moved to Australia when he was a kid and then we had a discussion obviously about Israel and whether or not I think Israel should be where they are and With Palestine and all that sort of stuff and I taught him what I believed and and how I think they should be and He goes, oh really and then we got a discussion about What I believe about Jesus.
Yeah, you know all salvation and Why I believe. And then I was good. There was another guy there who I didn't really know but he knew. He was a Christian, too. So he was sort of backing me up with what I was telling Connie about.
And Connie's brought up as he's not he's not a practicing Muslim. He's not but his parents were and they've both passed away now so he Yeah, he's definitely not a practicing Muslim. Okay. Yeah, he's not but well, I was able to have a Decent discussion with him and I felt a real You know a burn in my heart for it.
And I just I was so in a sense excited about it. So after talking to him when I had to get back on the truck I went wow, this is what I need to do. Okay, that's that's what it was. I mean, I know that's not straight evangelism because I actually knew the guy.
You know him but I just had that real.
It was right, you know, yeah. Well, I mean evangelism really it starts. With those that are closest to us, right though those who are around us, right? I mean our our first ministry, of course is to our family making sure our family we're growing and leading our family in the Lord.
But I mean also our co-workers right those whom we work with that we see on a daily basis. And you know the they see how we act they see how we respond to thing to things the things that we say. Then you know, so so that's a point of contact where we can minister to people and then going out on the streets as well.
Because you know, I've gone out on the streets and I've had people almost run away from me. Yeah, you know one one story is I went with a group of friends we went To this little town square in Marietta, Georgia.
Hmm, and it was with an older church well a Church, I was previously at and we went to just sing songs pray for people. Things like that and so I saw this. These group of girls and I said, well, I think they need Jesus.
Yeah, so so I grabbed one of my one of my other friends who was a girl because I'm not gonna going to go approach Them, you know by myself as a male and so I went over and I and I said, hey, you know.
How are you? How are y 'all doing? I you know, I'd like to tell you guys about Jesus and they said oh, no. Thanks. No, thanks. We're good, we're good and and I said, okay. Okay. Why do you why do you think that and they oh, well, you know we grew up in the church and and We we're good.
We don't we don't want to hear about About Jesus. We just we just kind of worship God our own way. He knows he understands. He knows my heart and I said I said could it be that you don't want to talk about Jesus?
Because You don't actually know him. Right the the you know that you're living wrong. And that because I was because the first thing you notice was how they were dressed. And it was you know, you're living wrong and and you don't want to talk about Jesus, you know, there's some sin going on.
And they said well, no, we just we just don't want to talk and then I proceeded to tell them about Jesus. Anyway, and then we were walking me and my friend. We were walking back and she just looked at me and she said I've never seen that before.
So, what are you talking about? You see me talk to people like hundreds of times. Like what do you mean? That you asked if they wanted to talk about Jesus. They said no and you did it anyway. Obvious.
So it's you know, people are gonna they're not gonna want to talk to you. But you're just gonna have to do it. Anyway is is what I found. Yeah, it's but it is one of those things that sometimes it can be.
Because I've I've gone out with friends that have been okay, we're gonna go we're gonna go evangelize and we go out and They they're too scared to approach people. They're too scared to talk to them as I just got to grab them and say, okay.
No, we're gonna go do it. Like let's just go talk to people. They're just people right? Yeah. They don't know you from Adam, but and as soon as you walk away they might forget you that they may but Unity to tell them about Christ, you know, so take that opportunity.
I forgot. I Was listening to a sermon this morning. It's an older sermon by. The guy's name is Sean. On something. He's a pastor in in Tennessee the state of Tennessee and. Well, he was guest preaching and the the pastor that was introducing was basically telling this guy's life mission statement.
And his mission statement was never pass an opportunity to tell someone about Jesus. So whenever you have an opportunity to tell someone you tell someone. Right. That's what we're to do. Anyway, right?
Yeah hard to tell people about Jesus. I mean, I think it was yeah, it was last week. Andrew was telling us about the car accident that he was in. That's right. Yeah, and he was the the person that that hit him.
He gave him a gospel track told him about Jesus the person that he hit. He gave him a gospel track told him about Jesus, right? I mean, he's just that's an opportunity. Everyone's there the He's there.
Yeah, you know so so we just gotta get over fear and I think a lot of people don't do it because they're fearful. And when they're fearful that just means they love themselves too much, right? It's more that's true.
It's more of a I'm afraid of what they'll think of me. Well, who cares dude get yourself out of the way, right? Yeah, so but I mean if if that's where you feel your your passion is. Then you have to pursue that now I would say that should be a passion for all Christians all in the name of Christ should be going out and telling people about Jesus yeah, so that should be all of our all of our passions now in terms of Serving in the church because and I know you said because of your shift work, that's hard, but you're also trying to find Kind of where to plug in.
Yeah, you know I would say take an inventory of what are your gifts talents and abilities that the Lord has given you. Look at those and then take those to the church and say this is what I can do. Where do you need me?
Yes, good idea. Yeah, and then just give yourself to that.
So what I am when I was in Queensland in McCoy and Thierry and Thierry is actually a real small mining town and I was actually a police officer for 13 years and In that town I was the actually officer in charge and What I used to do because it was difficult that there was a church next door, but it was hardly ever on if at all so.
That's when I started just in a sense having church in the police car when I was driving around. They listen to podcasting and music and what have you? But You know you're talking about Trying to tell everyone about God where everyone you interact with see then when I was in that position I would always pray for an opportunity and while I'm talking to that person, I'd be like Lord, please pray I pray there's an opportunity for me to say something and Then more often than not there was like they might mention something or and I just go Oh, yeah about this and what about you know, and I'll talk about my faith and what have you and stuff like that?
So and it led to Other opportunities as well from that because the town started knowing. Oh, hang on. Don't pray. He's he's a Christian. So for instance, we have like, you know Anzac Day, right? So we remember the the the The Anzacs fighting the world or the world wars, right?
And so I was asked even though I was a police officer in charge. I was asked to do a prayer okay, so I was able to do a Proper prayer as such which I'm saying that is because I Know who I'm praying to.
Well, there's other people that would do it that they're just it's just like oh, yeah, this sounds like a prayer I'll just do that. You know, yeah, this is what our words in vain pretty exactly, right?
So what I wanted to do is Have an opportunity but in that prayer. I Was mentioning about you know, thanking God about dying for us, you know and Saving us from our sins, you know, so those are the things I was trying to implement and just like throw in there and even one time we I led a prayer for a Christmas lunch that we had with the town.
So it was just the opportunities which was really good. And obviously now I'm not in that position. So I don't have those Opportunities as much but I'm still I'm trying to find them again. So Yeah, but I know I really have like I said before I really have that desire I just want to Almost pretty much want to do it as a job.
You know, I mean, but.
Yeah, now another I should have said this also as a good source, I don't know why I didn't. If you go to striving for eternity I'm sure Andrew has tons of Of Articles Probably some some teachings on there.
It's been a while since I've actually been to the website. So I should probably I should probably know it in and out now that I do I'll do the podcast. But I do know Andrew has a lot there are a lot of articles on there from just from pastors from theologians That have just been collected now.
I will also say Listen to the sermons of Jim Osmond, you know. So we've had Jim on several times. He's a friend of the ministry and that's that's actually where I think that's where Andrew is now at probably it.
But I have found. Oh I'm cutting out. Oh, yeah. Yes. It's come back in. Yeah, my internet is messed up. So That's.
It's pretty windy over here. So I thought it might have been that.
No, my internet is we've been having issues with it. Yeah, but but Jim is one of the best expositors of Scripture. Yeah that that I've listened to and so, you know, it's it's kind of a privilege to get to call him a friend.
Because listen to him and I and I can I can never not listen to him without pen and paper in hand. Okay, as I know he's gonna give me so much information That's gonna be beneficial to my soul that I could probably use to pass on to somebody else.
Yeah, and so even even when he's a guest on the show. I kind of sit back and Just let him do his thing and I'm taking notes, you know while he's on the podcast. So that's uh, I mean I would say Listen to Jim Osmond sermons that you can.
Yep, he's great. So we do have a question for you from bond servant for Jesus is Dave Pratt single. Just curious. No, I'm married and I have three children. Three kids, okay, what are their ages.
Brianna she's 10. Brocks eight and Jordan seven. Okay, so they're all kind of close together. Yeah, yeah. We end up having three under three so that was. That was bit rough, but it's good now.
Yeah, well there was a time we had two that were two and under and so that was. But it's it's starting to get a little bit better but so do your. Do your do your kids know Christ or yeah, I'm sent to them.
Okay, great. Yep.
The school is actually quite impressed. When I end up doing like, you know when they do their little Bob because I go to a Christian school. Okay, and They they go when I do their little Bible studies in the morning or stuff like that or they go to scripture.
They're pretty impressed with their knowledge as such for their age. Because what I want to do is obviously I want to teach them the best I can. But also I want them to know more than what I did when I was their age.
Because just in the past Ten years or so, uh. We've been just in five years. I've just learned so much and I haven't said to my dad I said like was it a. About two three years ago. I need I only stumbled across RC Sproul.
Hmm, and I'm like Where have you been? You know and then then I found that obviously he passed away in 2017 so like I watched like just a recap of that the funeral and then I saw obviously John McArthur and stuff like that and.
And then a long time ago and I can't remember how old I was probably a teenager or something. My dad actually gave me a Bible study book and I didn't realize but it was written by RC Sproul. It was actually walking with Jesus.
Okay, and I've still got it and. Yeah, no, it's like oh, okay. So he has actually introduced me, but I just didn't Pick up on it. Yeah, you know, but um. Yeah, just just learned so much and in that time was thinking I wish I had a known.
Just some of the stuff that I know now back then. So that's yeah, so that's what I'm doing with my children and they've also asked if I will if they could be baptized and I said, oh. Well, yeah, I'm sort of maybe my daughter tan but.
Like I'm sort of when I've listened to other preachers even like, you know, whoever it is. I Believe there's an age where you might be a bit too young to actually understand what you in a sense getting yourself into.
See I was baptized when I was 17, but I was still I still made mistakes after it, right? Yeah, so no. And. Yeah, so I don't I want to try and protect them and do the best I and I wouldn't do the right thing.
Mm-hmm. But um, I want to also have a proper understanding of what they're getting himself into right? Yeah. So I've even I've even told them I said The what I've even told them the world's getting worse and it's wasn't what it's not what it was when I was a kid.
And I said it's gonna get to a point where we may be Persecuted for our faith. Mm-hmm, and I've even said to them I said look for instance the government. Whatever government may be I asked you explain, you know, I sort of gave an example of China.
You know. They might not like the government might not want you to you know. Be a Christian or express your faith and if you do so you'll get in trouble you could be arrested or even executed and I said but What I want you to understand is that you never ever deny Jesus no matter what?
Mm-hmm. So they have that sort of understanding that's how that's pretty much because I kept asking questions as well. So I sort of got to that in depth. Good. Yeah. Yeah, so I just want them prepared, you know.
Yeah, that's good. That's wise. Yeah. Now it would be really funny if they go to they go to Bible study and go. Well, John MacArthur says about this passage That would be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah now listen to Charles Spurgeon, you know.
They go we got. Oh, no, go ahead. Good.
Oh, I'll just make another comment about you know, they could quote from Charles Spurgeon or something like that, right? Yeah now.
In Australia. Hmm, is there or are there parts where? The church is persecuted or or you're kind of looked down upon for being a Christian or or anything like that.
There I I'm sure there's like persecutions throughout so like in just wait, especially with through Kovac. Definitely in like what Victoria and Western Australia? They were definitely those persecution there like with churches and stuff like that.
Because you know they weren't closing down or they were meeting and you know. And they weren't allowed or that have like it got to the point where? It was in Musselbrook here. Though when I met at a park, they're only allowed to meet in groups of ten.
Okay. Well, they weren't allowed to meet as a congregation. Interesting. Yeah, that's weird and Then obviously they didn't do church at the church that they do it online and.
Anyway that I had a discussion with the pastor about that. I'm just like, yeah. Yeah, we got a comment here Andrew Grant. I think Andrew is in Australia as well. Okay, every church was forced to meet online.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's no one. I don't believe there's anyone that had a backbone like John McCarver. Mm-hmm. And that's what need I believe that's needed to happen.
Yeah, so there wasn't anyone that like in Australia that could be given the title of like a Christian nationalist. Right, like we're going to we're going to overthrow Australia and take Australia for Christ.
Not that I've heard. No, okay.
No, I mean they might be out there, but I haven't heard anything like that. Um, but in relation to I believe in comparison to the US and I could be wrong and I'll copy it if I'm wrong, but I Believe the the Christians are things is looked down upon here.
Like when you tell people that you're a Christian or what have you you just like Oh a Christian are you one of those I remember When I was in the place I was in my car and I was in the watch house where they you know, the jail section part and I was sitting there.
I knew there was another junior officer. I knew he was a Christian and People knew that he was Christian, but they didn't really Like him or they just thought he was weird or what have you and I actually liked him him and I got on quite well.
And I was just sitting there and one of the senior officers behind me said oh, he's a Christian. Oh, he's one of those and I said I turned around I said one of those what and I said, I'm one of those.
Yes. Oh, no. No, no, no, you know what? I mean? No, you're not like you like I'm like.
Well, what does that mean? That sounds even worse? Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know.
But like there's there's that so that look down a look down upon and. And. But yeah, but I I felt good about that because I was able to step up and in it stick up for him as well and also with my faith, too but.
Yeah there's. Yeah, obviously what depends on where you are where you're living as well because where I'm at now muscle book. There's not. There's not really any. Say like my innocence. I don't want to be sound so self-righteous, but.
What my standard of doctrine? I? Don't believe is in muscle book. Okay. Because they seem to like all agree with each other with things and they participate with each other and things like for instance the Anglican Church here.
Had their lead pastor is a female. So I'm like what what and. Yet they're supporting them like the Baptist Church here is supporting them with what they do and vice versa. They you know, they have community events where they all get together and stuff like that.
I'm like, so there's no real conviction no, and that's what I picked up that there's a lot of. You know how we all say by grace, right? But there's that extreme say by grace is in oh, it's just a free ticket to do what I want, but I'm still saved.
Yeah, and that's what I hate. You know, and that's what I've been and I felt that the particular pastors Here and here encourage it. But like I said when I went down to this church where I'm going to now.
It's he's even I've even been told by other deacons at that church when he was first in a sense Interviewed he actually held the Bible up in the air and said this is what I preach from and nothing else from this.
Nothing else, but this you know. No, and it was quite encouraging, you know. Nice. Yeah, so. Yeah, that's that's what I found. It's very. You know in a sense like the Australia I shall be alright mate, you know.
But Yeah, I mean that's just my experience here at the moment, yeah, well, let me bring in right my co-host here From from matter of theology Chris Hough. What's up? Hey, it's I mean, hey if you can't get here on time to Work baby work work who works at 8 o 'clock at night.
Well when some most of your team or some of your teams on the West Coast.
This guy tell him tell him to get on normal people time.
I know right. Get on get on the don't don't be on the West Coast. Get on the best coast, right? That's right.
We don't do West Coast. No, man. Like when when the rap wars of the 90s of East and West Coast. East Coast all day, dude.
My man. Oh, that's awesome, that's awesome. What's already. Well Dave.
It was it was really great chatting with you. If you want to hang out backstage. You're more than welcome to. Yeah, appreciate I think. So so Chris, I don't know if you were listening earlier. But I was not but Dave is out in Australia.
And he's been listening to the podcast for for a little bit and he was just on the website messing around. He said well, I wonder what happens if I do that and he ended up here. Press this duck right here.
Oh, I. Talking to these guys. Yeah, so so he didn't know we would actually be on right now.
And so we've just been kind of chit-chatting. Hope you didn't say anything bad Dave. Can't take it back, bro. It's out in the world forever.
Yeah, you're more. I'm gonna put you backstage. Yeah, thank you Tom. Yeah, no problem. And I'm very thankful for for Dave and that in that conversation there and you know, just him. Finding a faithful church out in Australia.
Awesome. Chris what's up, dude? What's up, bro? You know what I do and doing it well.
I was waiting for you to say that man live in the dream. I was gonna switch it and say dreaming to live but that doesn't work it don't.
But so so I started off the show by reading The Great Commission, hmm. Because you know, we're we're gonna be talking about Christian nationalism. Yeah, and that is a a hot hot button topic right now.
Now I I did but before the show I went and I found I found some things. Okay. Oh some things. It's from it's from a blog called truth over tribe. I've never heard of it before. Okay. But it's how do you know you have fallen for Christian nationalism.
Hold on. My wife sent me. Okay, so how do you know you've fallen for Christian nationalism. Okay first. You think? America's founders were evangelical Christians. Some of them were some of them were I would actually say a lot of them were yeah now.
And that's just historical fact. Now. A lot of people would say that they were deus. That's act and and they would say George Washington was a deus. I Would disagree. Mm-hmm. I've got a really big very accurate biography of George Washington down there.
George Washington spent a lot of his time. Especially when he was when when the American Revolution was going on and he was on the battlefield. Mm-hmm. He spent it in prayer. Mm-hmm. Deus have no need to pray because they don't believe God is actively involved in his creation.
What? Interesting, how dare you I know but if you believe that you might be a Christian nationalist. So, okay. Here's another one. Okay. All right, you want your church to fly an American flag in the sanctuary?
Okay, let me let me. Oh gosh, you see brother golly, there's so many different Directions we could go with this, right, right. And and so let me let me start out by saying the following. For and it was interesting as I've had some people over the last couple weeks as This topic has come up and I've I've taken a you know I think a lot of people know I took a step back from social media and I still I'm not very involved Like I used to be.
But I did make a comment After I saw someone said something the effect of Over Dale Partridge. It was Dale Partridge saying Well, we won't get into why never and never the rabbit hole you know that this lady came to His church and joined the church because they're theonomic post millennials.
And she was just I'm paraphrasing, you know, so no one jumped down my throat here. That she was sick of the defeatist attitude mentality through and through and So I I made a comment. I addressed something in a very broad way that's what I've been trying to do, especially on Twitter or X or Twix whatever you want to call it.
I like Twix by the way Twix good. I haven't had one in a minute though. But anyway, but the point is is I had someone you know, you know someone oh, oh, that's what it was. I tweeted out that if you are villainizing someone based upon a secondary or tertiary issue like eschatology.
You're villainizing another believer. You're doing it wrong. All you are you're immature. You're pugnacious. You're divisive and you're quarrelsome. You're a pastor. You're not supposed to be those things right.
And somebody somebody was like well. Somebody's like clap back at me and you know me man. I usually just read it and then ignore it but Like he was just like well, that's because your eschatology is this this.
I can't remember what they said and I was like, okay I didn't get loser eschatology. I didn't even well, it's not but I didn't even say anything about What my eschatology was it was right and I said on whether you're on both sides of the aisle.
Okay, it doesn't matter which side you are. So I say all that to say this. I am a patriot through and through. I Mean, I'm I'm wearing a hat right now. This has the uniform of Eddie Penney who is a former SEAL Team six dev group and operator tier one operator.
These guys Right. I train with these guys virtually not not in person GBRS group. These guys named DJ Shipley Cole Fackler same thing SEAL Team six tier one operators. Okay, see this hat look. Oh Look, there's another one like I Love this country.
I am a patriot through and through. However, I am a citizen of heaven before I'm a citizen in the United States of America. Right, I am and you and I have talked about this a ton a matter of theology that and in this this came up a ton.
During and after George Floyd in 2020 Lecrae talking about you know, he's black before you know, you're not black before you're anything else. You're a child of God and a citizen of heaven before you're anything else.
So, of course, I love this country and I would I would gladly fight for the values of this country. However, my love for this country should never emotionally Intellectually or physically supersede my love for Christ His church and to glorify him in all that I do and to operate to operate according to what this says.
Not what the Constitution says first.
Right. First and foremost my love for country should look like hate compared to my correct. Right, right.
I count it all as right rubbish. Okay, so so I you know, I want to preface all of this but by saying I say that. Like, of course, I desire laws to be in place that would that would Abolish the Holocaust that is abortion.
Of course. I want laws and I'm saying this as a historic premillennial. Okay, of course, I want laws in place. That are that would prohibit minors. From from deciding whether or not I Identify as the opposite gender than I was born with that.
The Lord Crafted me with. Of course, I want laws to prohibit that. Absolutely, I do however. That stuff does not I mean it does by God's common grace but apart from if all I'm doing is fighting for those laws to To to to take hold to prevent those things that's that's temporal that's good and it's good.
Don't get me wrong. But if I'm not doing that according to the Word of God Using the gospel of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ, and here's the biggest thing that I'm seeing right now. And if I can't shelve my emotions.
And put them. If I can't bring that my emotions into subjection to what this word teaches that my attitude should be. I and everybody else hear me clearly if you cannot keep your emotions in check if you are.
Blasting other believers on Twitter because they're calling out Joel Webben because they're calling out Dale Partridge. Because of X Y Z if you cannot control yourself. Sit down and shut up. Yeah, period.
I am so tired of the name of Christ and the beautiful words of Scripture being maligned. Because because we can't control ourselves. Does it make me angry? Do I feel some sort of emotion everybody knows I love John MacArthur.
I can't pull it down right now because it's tacked up against the wall. I have a picture of John and I right here that he signed for me. Does it irritate me if somebody attacks him? Yeah, but guess what?
Let's keep going. I Don't I don't need not every fight is our fight brothers and sisters. And if you can't engage in that that battle without being gentle kind gracious. Reflecting the attitude of Christ notice how Jesus Christ himself the way he operated towards sinners and In his his his disciples the way he spoke to them.
Was much different than speaking to false teachers. You know, like let me give a prime example. You and I have talked about this offline and I'm gonna open up a can here. Okay, I Can I personally I personally.
Okay, I Am NOT a fan. And I want to say this carefully, I don't know him. I've never met him personally, but based upon what I have seen lately Dale Partridge needs to step away from ministry own his sin.
Seek counsel discipleship and maturity and then let the Lord do whatever he's gonna do there. Okay, but I haven't. I haven't spoken into that I don't know him. I don't know that situation and Just because that is my opinion based upon what I read in Scripture and based upon my experiences doesn't mean I need to blow it up and blow it out and Blast him everywhere.
Like I just man. I know I said a lot right there. I'm gonna stop talking but but I mean, it's just I Was talking to Chris Honholtz today man, you know, I'm chat like you do you and I do. You know and it's interesting right you got this guy I don't know this this Oliver guy who wrote this song I.
Listen, and that's something you and I yeah, I'm gonna talk about tonight. Yeah, right, right.
I mean, I I don't I've listened to song once. Um, am I a fan? I'm a Southern boy, right? Am I a fan of You know a guy getting up there with a hollow body guitar and with the with the woods in the background and a raspy voice and Just singing some truth.
Truth that we're seeing in our nation right now. Sure, but we are so stinking emotional that we latch on to it. Oh, there's a song that says exactly what we as Christians we latch on to that and we elevate this person.
And we don't know a thing about him, right? Like just Take a breath people and that's something I've I've not been the best at in the past but take a breath. Bring your emotions into subjection under Scripture first and foremost, and if you can't you don't need to be speaking about anything.
So, I'm sorry.
Yeah, well, I mean the the next question is Chris. Tell me how you really feel. I know right somebody Andrew Graham Comment to try that in a small town. That's a good song. Good one. Okay, so in in this is this is one of the things about About this song right because because you and I were when we were I Approach you about coming on tonight, you know, I said we can talk about this so we can talk about this.
Yeah, and one of the things was this song and Christian nationalism. Hmm now this song When you listen to it, there's There's profanity in it, right? Yeah, there's profanity but what what we saw was a lot of those who are And people on here know me as being in in the post mill camp the post mill theonomic camp.
No. Yeah, I know hard to believe because I hang out with such dis bees and in such but They were taking this song in Elevating it to the point that it was almost there it became their hymn. Right. Hmm became it's become their battle cry and And people were calling this song out because of the profanity in it like why are you elevating this song that utilizes profanity and and people were missing the point and I enter well, I quote tweeted someone else today who Posted this video on Twitter that was normal everyday people.
That was that was what she said who were not saying a word about his cursing. They resonated with the words and I'm going okay. First of all, we don't get our cues from normal everyday people. That's right our cues.
Secondly, how many of those normal everyday people how many of their Native tongue is profanity. Right. They now they resonate with the words. Sure. Hey, guess what? I Am a working-class guy. I work really hard for very little Resonate with the words of this song very much.
Oh, yeah, but at the same time I don't have to elevate it to the pedestal of a new anthem. Right. I understand it because I live it. But I'm also not gonna say promote it and say hey Christians listen to this.
This should be our battle cry. No, no, it shouldn't. Christ in him crucified as your battle cry. Period in a discussion.
Exactly, and then and then and then here here's the other part, right? So I I get the song right I.
Same same, you know. And as musicians as well man as musicians. Yes.
And and so when when I hear a lot of the things that he says, right it it does hit me in the heart. Sure, because he is kind of formulating how a lot of people in this country feel, you know. Oh, yeah, that's a trade by our government, right betrayed by our government.
Yeah, and that's that's left and right, okay, it's not absolutely it's left and right and I've said You know the difference between the Democrats and Republicans is Democrats want to take all your money now the Republicans want to do it slowly.
Over six years. Okay, either way they both want your money. That's hilarious. Okay. So so I get the song I resonate with it. But when did we stop caring about holiness? Oh, bro. When did we stop caring about the language that we that we use right.
When did we stop caring about that? And and one of the things now now there were and I don't know anything about this guy. I'm sure he's a great guy. I'm sure he's a really nice guy and especially the the fact that he's he's a working-class guy same struggles.
I'm sure he and I could pal around for it, right?
I mean he even opened that the first show he did after that song went viral reading Psalm 37, right?
And and that's what I'm looking to get into. To kind of shift into because because after the criticism of the utilization of the language People were sharing that and saying we'll see he's he's reading scripture.
He's reading scripture and Come to find out he's 30 days sober, which hey, congratulations. You right, you know, that's that that's a feat in itself for anyone who is battled with addiction. But he's also a a new believer.
Right. He's he's a new believer now. What we don't need to do is Skyrocket him to a pedestal, right? What we need to do is We need to disciple him and so my prayer for him is that He be in a Bible teaching church with a God-fearing pastor.
Who will say hey? Let's sit down and go through some of these things.
Yeah, so let me address a couple things that you said just off the cuff. So, you know This is what I was this is what I was thinking through today and I didn't really have a much of an opportunity to sit down and kind of work out my thoughts.
I wanted to but This is what I mean, okay, like I you know. For a conservative, I mean look at the way the song just blew up for a conservative working-class. Whether whether you're not working-class, you know, I saw some I saw some dudes That are not working-class that are just like this is a minute I had all day and and this is right on and this is Spot-on and you know guys and and I'm like, okay right on.
Okay good good for you but for the. For the unbeliever that is their anthem for the unbeliever. To whom the Lord has shown? Some grace grace to and restraining grace and that they are Conservative in their politics that they.
That they may lean politically where a line where a believer may sure. Sure. I get that. I absolutely get that for the believer, I think you can listen to a song like that and say number one from a musicality standpoint right on.
Number two from a message standpoint and the way I mean use some discernment right from a from a message standpoint you know you look at the way it blew up and that gives you a pulse of. Where things are in our country politically right now?
You know before the believer. No, that's not that shouldn't that should not be your battle cry. Your battle cry should be regardless of what happens regardless of. Whoever God sovereignly appoints as my leader.
Whether I like it or not whether I voted for them or not. My my command is to is to be obedient to what the scriptures teach to go and to make disciples. Baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey all that he has commanded understanding that the sovereignty of God ensures the success of you being obedient to that if you're striving after holiness and.
And also that the sovereignty of God ensures the success of the any evangelism that you're gonna be engaged in. That's your battle cry. Your battle cry are the scriptures. Your battle cry is that Christ has won that the victory is his and regardless of what transpires.
That nothing formed against you as his child as a part of his church. Will harm you Romans 8 nothing. Nothing. Therefore we operate from that place of victory we again, it goes back to in our attitude in the way that we engage the world in the way that we engage other believers and and so I you know, I Think it's very you know with social media right information travels like that, right?
We knew what was happening in Maui like that whereas, you know, I'm I Was I'm just nostalgic in this way. I got I recently visited ground zero like 9-eleven I think about how long it took us. To understand and realize and the information to be disseminated as far as what was happening on 9-eleven that doesn't happen anymore.
Right, it happens like that. And so what happens is you have believers? You have believers that are frustrated rightfully so you have believers that do have emotions rightfully so but they're not Checking those emotions with scripture, right and then so when something like this comes along.
Where this dude writes this this great sounding song, it's catchy. It's got some solid words and it's like throw right on but then you listen to it. You're like, but that's not my battle cry. Christ is my battle cry.
So, I think we just need to be we need to be careful now. What you what you just said there where you know, since you know, when do we not care about holiness? I would say I'm gonna I'm gonna quote you.
Okay. You know that most of if not all of the problems that we see in today's modern church stem from the charismatic chaotic movement. That is that turned into now a seeker oriented movement. Where you find churches like that are within 25 miles of where you and I are right now.
Where they don't care if you're singing songs written by heretics. The gospel is not proclaimed and heralded from the pulpit. The Word of God is not the not the buttress of those churches, right? And and and so what happens when's up happening is you have a bunch of False assurance of salvation you have a bunch of people who think that they're Christians.
But they don't ultimately have that that eternal hope and so they can't go. You know Ecclesiastes 7 to 14 whether the Lord ordains the good and the bad doesn't matter it's it's whatever he has ordained is right.
Yeah, look here.
What's your son Holtz is in is in the comments or less in your hon holds. I just was talking about you I'm hearing. Is we need. Yeah, we need hon holds in here. Oh, bro on the show. Yeah, y 'all want to see how the whole school skirts go because I think hon holds has some thoughts on this topic.
Well, I know he's been dealing with some AC issues at home today, so it depends on Cold. And he's got a cold so but anyway, man, I just you know. Like it's one thing. It's one thing again to appreciate it right.
And to use some discernment and go man, yeah. That that gives you. That gives you you know pause and let you know where things are. But for the believer It's like, you know, you got it. Wait, you got it.
You got to push pause and you got to think well, hang on guys like let's not elevate this guy too soon. Kanye. Yeah.
You know. And You know and I was thinking about that to the the whole Kanye situation. Because on the surface it looked like whoa something's happening with Kanye and then when we look at who his pastor was a Master seminary graduate Andrea and but then we go.
What happened.
Kanye went off the rails, you know, here's something else too, man. You know, I was talking about Eddie Penney right this dude. That's his uniform is behind this flag right here. You know Eddie Eddie's got a pretty incredible testimony.
I Believe that the Lord saved Eddie. But Eddie is involved with some dudes yes, we're talking about the country song guy Chris Eddie. Eddie's hooked up with some dudes from a theological standpoint. That's very charismatic and His I mean, he's a brand-new believer he's I Love Eddie don't get me wrong.
Let me just say this like he's just had an incredible life as you can imagine as what he did and married a few times and kids and Then the Lord saved him and you know One of my prayers has been God just wish that guy would just get in a solid church.
And there's another guy named Sean Ryan who does a big podcast. And I mean, he's he's taught. I mean he recently professed faith in Christ as well. So it's cool to see these guys coming to know the Lord.
I just I just am praying so hard for them that they would get plugged into solid churches and that they wouldn't take this newfound faith as they like to call it and use that as a platform right to sell merch and to join patreon and Everything else.
I mean, it's just Yeah, so yeah. Anyway, I know I'm going off on some rabbit trails here, but yeah, so a lot to talk about there is there is so.
Let's get into the to the main topic. Christian nationalism. Now this is a Hot-button topic. It I mean in in the socials. It's huge huge. It's huge. Okay. I mean, it's so big so big right now so hot so hot.
Um. Why is that. Well, where did this come from? Why is it? So huge. And then why is there so much? Drama. Right. There's so much drama attached to it. With some people in social media. Yeah. Well.
How I'm loving some of the comments that I'm seeing right now, I mean you gotta put some of those up.
I heard Christian nationalism is just CRT.
A Bond servant, let me let me just say it like this. Depending on where you fall again definitions matter, right? It's just the other side of that coin.
Yeah, and that's a that's important to because. Depending on who you talk to about Christian nationalism, it's gonna mean different things, right? There's it's like Baskin Robbins. There's 52 different flavors of Christian national.
Are there 52 flavors? Is that what their thing is? Baskin Robbins.
30s, I think 31. There's multiple different Robin's even still around. I don't think so, okay but.
The only one I knew about in Kennesaw closed down years. Oh, yeah. No, no 41. Oh I mean it was over by where men cheese.
By the crow. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right. That's right. Okay, but.
But you know depending on who you ask you're gonna get a different definition of Christian nationalism, right? So at the beginning of the show, I said Anthony Silvestro. Dr. Silvestro might join us a little later.
I you know, I invite him on. I said, hey, we're gonna be talking about this. I know you've probably got some thoughts about this and so he called me today and we talked a little bit and he was like. Now what do you mean when you say I just want to make sure.
You know, and so so we talked about it, but. When. So let me ask you first Chris before I get into mine when when we look at the discussion of Christian nationalism, what is it that you're seeing as. The main I guess flavor of Christian nationalism.
And why is it a problem? Uh.
Let me. Let me caveat my answer with this. I have not seen at all. Okay, this is just the when I log in then I'm seeing these conversations happen. The flavor of.
Christian. Only one or two people who probably hold the same flavor. Yeah.
I mean, it's it's the it's the the Christian nationalism that says The Lord. Yeah, Darren's did her brother.
Dude, I love that guy. By the way. Hold on. Let me come to Georgia. He is let me interject here if I need everyone to keep Darren in your prayers. Big time there. He's having he hid his head when he was here in Atlanta for the For the OSA conference.
He hid his head pretty bad and he's he's Feeling some some repercussions of that and So there's treatment that he's trying to get that he's coming actually to Atlanta to receive so if you guys could be in prayer for Darren and Family, and I think now I didn't square this with Andrew to to mention this or anything.
But I think Darren might be setting up a gifts and go In order to help fund some of the treatment. Yeah, so when that cheap, yeah, it's not cheap Darren. If you give me that information, I'll try to get it for sure, bro.
Me too. Yeah.
Me too, bro. Um, yeah, so the I mean the the flavor that I've seen. And that and I'm like, wow. Is the flavor of Christian nationalism that says let me just give you an example. The Lord gave my kids to me instead of my pagan neighbor.
So he's definitely gonna save them. The flavor of Christian nationalism that says we've got to follow stuff like the seven-mountain mandate. And having a conference.
Around something like that. I don't know that I would say Seven mountain mandate because I think they would make the seven mountain and it but I would say you can kind of see Inklings. It's like oh, yeah, how do you not hold to this?
Yeah, cuz cuz cuz you're. You are talking about kind of hitting a lot of these things in the political sphere, right?
Are you trying to take over politics? Right? It's I mean, it's it's it's the flavor, right? I mean, it's it's the it's that flavor of Christian nationalism. That is full preterist it's. Yeah, and and it's it's.
Another example would it would be the you know, the no women's shouldn't study theology. Women shouldn't study theology. I mean, it's okay if they want to talk about theology so they can apply that to being a better wife and a better mom and.
But they shouldn't study theology. It's like they shouldn't read R. C. Sproul, right?
No, they shouldn't read R. C. Sproul or John MacArthur or Lloyd-Jones or anybody like that? So so it's it's it's that kind of Christian nationalism and the reason the reason that it's wrong is Because it is either it's it's Usually not always it's usually taking a cop a concept from somewhere in Scripture and Running so far right with it that we're reading into what it doesn't say.
An example and I don't I've got my Bible here, but I would need to open it and look for it but in Titus, I believe it is when when Paul is giving the Examples of Women and what women are supposed to do teach the things that are in accordance to sound doctrine is how that that chapter starts.
Before it gets into what older women should teach younger women older men should teach younger men, etc. So on and so forth teach the things that are good. Well, what is good? We've got to go back to verse 1 of that chapter sound doctrine so it's it's the flavor of Christian nationalism that.
That that is Implying and enacting extra biblical in That way where they're just they're just the text does not say that the text does not say that women should not study theology. The text you know Scripture nowhere in Scripture.
Can you defend? That because the Lord chose to sovereignly give you your kids. Instead of your kids to your neighbor that he is a hundred and ten percent. Absolutely going to save them, right? Now, let me caveat that statement with this one.
That doesn't mean that you should not operate like he will. Right in how you lead your family in in in how you elevate the scriptures and how you elevate The Lord's is central in your home. But it's it's stuff like that man, yeah.
What I'll say he said they try to make a distinction in that women can teach Theology to other women within the confines of Titus 2. Mm-hmm. They can learn all kinds of theology from biblically qualified men only.
Now again, like Not again, but this is one of those things man where I'm like Why are we why are some people so black and white on some of this stuff. There are things in Scripture that are black and white, right?
I Wholeheartedly believe in the church in the local church that it should be the elders that are over. Whether it's Sunday school or or life groups or whatever you want to call them that the con and would you and I have experienced this right that the content that is that is given in those times is to be Overseen.
It has to be overseen by the elders and if at all possible it should be elder led. But that doesn't mean that women should not get together and discuss Theology right. Read Sproul read MacArthur read the Puritans.
That's not what that means so. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah and One of the things that I have seen on Especially on on Twitter is The vilification of some people who may push back on Secondary and tertiary issues. I'm talking you disagree with me and You're the nail I'm the hammer and I'm just going to town.
Here's one. Have you noticed.
That if you disagree With with someone in that camping crowd that you are labeled a feminist and or a feminine eminent. Yeah, that is exploded over the last couple of weeks. Yes to which. To which my response.
I Have refrained as much as I have wanted to. I have refrained because I'm like. That advice that I gave when I jumped on like unless you can keep your emotions in check. Shut up. I say that to myself all the time.
But I want to ask the question of these of believers professing believers, I mean Calling other believers effeminate. I'm like, okay. Do you know what that means? Biblically, do you understand that when you call another believer effeminate?
Biblically. Malacost yeah you that that is a homosexual term. Mm-hmm. The past and you are that thank you. Yep. You are the passive partner in a homosexual relationship. You have called another believer Effeminate that's what you're saying.
That's because they disagree with you on holds again. They they don't care.
That's right, which and. And this blows my mind right. So so a couple things. One. I've seen this from Ladies on Twitter who who are a part of the ultra patriarchy.
You know. Movement and they're usually correcting men which goes against the anyway.
Exactly right now. Hey, I'm for biblical patriarchy. I'm in for it all for my wife. She's all for it Okay. But You're on social media engaging in theological Arguments with other men who are not your husband and and it's like and you're emotional about it.
And you're emotional in a way. Yes, like you can't tell tone. Oh, yes, you can.
And it's like I don't think you believe what you think you believe. Because if that were true, you wouldn't be engaging in this way. You wouldn't be doing these things. Yeah, so so that's that's kind of the first thing I see.
The second thing that I see is people who engage in this right, whether it be we need to we need to Implement God's law. Hey, look, I'm all I'm all for if bills are introduced right like you talked about abolition bills I'm I gotta say I'm not even necessarily against fornication bills.
I'm not against Homosexuality bills. I'm not against those things right if they are introduced to be voted on I will vote for them. Right if they come up on a ballot, I will vote for them because I will go that is a biblical bill That I can get behind.
Mm-hmm, but when we see people in their behavior online I'm wondering where is Christ? Because I see them promote all of these things over and over and over again. But I never see them elevate Christ and especially those who call themselves pastors.
I Never see them elevate. I never see them say hey, I want a Christian nation. Because I want souls to be saved. That is I never see them say that in fact if I okay.
So I was gonna say I want everybody to do this, but I don't because You'll end up getting into wars with people but Just ask the question of people you're like, okay, so you want to see you want to see a Christian nation preach the gospel and watch the Lord convert and and as he has promised to do his elect and Then just say that watch how many people will clap back at you who profess to be Christians.
Well, not only that but who profess to be reformed. No, bro, right. And all they've done is is display a a new group of rhinos.
Reformed in name only I I think this is just another sect of the young wrestles and reform to be honest.
Yeah, I could see that as well and it's.
It's ridiculous man, it's it's ridiculous and it's so funny man when you notice. It doesn't surprise me when you see people who? The way they behave online. Mm-hmm the way that they behave publicly. You know, some people don't have a problem with.
You know, hey two pastors three pastors and a beer. Let's watch that video on YouTube and then it doesn't surprise me that someone would like all of her song right. But because that just is right it just goes along in in the wheelhouse and so.
They're also the same ones that make justification for it's okay for me to use foul language. Right. I mean scoob along right. Paul did it? Okay. No. He didn't. Check out Mike Riccardi's explanation of that word.
Okay, but but also what I see in that is people will descriptive text and Try to use them as prescriptive text in justification for using foul language. It's the same thing charismatics do right?
It's the same thing. It's just applied to a different subject and topic. Brothers and sisters there do drew. Explain for us the difference between descriptive and prescriptive and how should we approach both in Scripture?
Well descriptive just tells us what's going on, correct? Describing something. Prescriptive text Can also be can also be imperatives, but they're they're things that are Prescribed. They're issued for you to do correct or you to live out now.
That can be a command right and imperative. Imperatives are commands. Do this. But it's it's laying out something for you to accomplish something for you to do. Now let's say a a Text that would be prescriptive and an imperative would be.
I don't know. Tame your tongue. Self-control, especially among a pastor, right? The pastor is to be self-controlled. Yep, let's go. I mean You don't have to look very far on Twitter to see pastors who are not self-controlled.
Right, well.
That's been my biggest frustration is the the mockery the The immaturity the the deceptiveness That you're seeing from from people. And it's just it's got to stop it. It does and and that's what I'm saying.
Oh, here's something else too. If I see another person using a parable as defense For some social cause I have not seen this. Oh my gosh, whether it I mean I've seen supposedly professing Reformed Christians using parables.
Which parables. Two things parables were a judgment of the Lord. Number one number two every parable that our Lord taught has one theme the kingdom salvation. They sure it's not the kingdom salvation and Same difference.
It just Salvation in the building of the kingdom. There we go. How about we say it like that? So it's. Come on you guys.
Yeah now. There is a flavor of Christian nationalism that I would say I'm for and I'm for it. Obviously because you know, I believe it right and that is. Our goal shouldn't be to try to overtake government.
Our Goal should be first to take God's law and implement it in ourselves. Self-governance is where it begins.
We implement God's law in ourself because we love God's law because we love God. Mm-hmm, right the Lord has saved you he is. Here's a litmus test, do you love the law of God the law of Yahweh is perfect.
Psalm 19 7. The law of Yahweh is perfect. Do you desire that same chapter in Psalm 19? Do you desire it more than gold much more than fine gold? You you should want to obey God's law because you love God's law, sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, so it first begins with self-governance. Secondly it moves to the family. I govern my family according to those laws, right? So I have self family the family sphere. Then it goes into the church the local church church governance.
Now the church and I know you say this a lot. Daryl Harrison has said this a lot and John MacArthur has said this a lot. I know so it's almost like you know that in the office, right the the Wayne Gretzky quote.
Chris quoted Daryl who quoted John. Yeah.
This is a quote from John MacArthur Daryl Harrison Chris Huck. Okay, it is and really it's gonna be a paraphrase because I can't think of the exact quote, but it's. We are not to go out and transform societies.
That's right. Our job is not to go and transform society. Jesus came to save sinners not society. There you go came to save sinners not societies. Now I understand The sentiment of what's being said and so so I'm going to.
I'm going to try to explain it Chris. You correct me if I get wrong. It's the it's that we're not to go out. For the purpose of saying I'm going to turn Cartersville into the Christian Cartersville. Mm-hmm, right.
I'm not going to just go with the intent to turn Cartersville into Christian City. But What I do because of where the gospel first begins in in me and then the application of the gospel and God's law.
First in me then in my family from the church. There should be an effect from the local church that resonates with the community so that as we go out from the local church and we do life we proclaim the gospel to those whom we meet and the community Comes to Christ then the community is transformed as a result Of the gospel having effect in our life and going forth from the local church.
Let's push pause for a second. Okay, okay, so.
Starts with self right the Lord saves you. By his miraculous efficacious work through the completed works of the Lord Jesus Christ. On the cross for our sin live the life that we could only hope no not even hope to live.
And died in our place for our sins rose three days. Defeated the last enemy which is death and the Lord through the power of the Holy Spirit through the proclamation of the gospel has as efficaciously Applied that work to our lives.
Replacing our heart of stone with a heart of flesh. Giving us faith. Giving us hope and assurance eternally. Understanding that we like I said earlier that we that that is a victory that has been won.
The last victory is the victory over death. And and and the when the Lord looks when the God looks at us when the father looks at us He sees his son. He sees the works of his son as we are covered in in that and so with that new heart comes a new love and new desires to honor the law of God to Understand that we've been Sanctified positionally but now the Lord through the working of his word and the spirit in our lives is going to prune and chisel away at our Flesh and prune and chisel away at us to conform us more and more into his image.
And so we love his law. We love his word. We operate our lives. Everything we think say and do should be driven by the Word of God. And then moves to that next sphere. Okay, so but let me let me say this that this next sphere of Influence outside of you personally is going to involve other people and yes, you are absolutely correct in that.
What has happened in us is going to resonate with those around us. But we have to understand that it could resonate in a couple ways. To where the Lord could be using that work in us as we proclaim that gospel.
The the saving the good news we as we Proclaim the whole counsel of God the good news the bad news and the good news. It is gonna resonate with people. It absolutely is and as you desire to live your life according to the Word of God.
It is gonna resonate with people but there's a chance there is a chance and we have to accept this and understand this. That that resonation could be negative.
You know, it's interesting that you say that because I was thinking about this earlier today and I was I was I was gonna mention it to some to some people but I didn't and it's Steve Lawson has said. That the same gospel that softens the soil hardening.
Right. So when you so in this we'll just take the Christian nationalists, right in their goal to go out and Christianize societies. Or we'll just say we'll say the nation. Can the same gospel that can soften the clay.
Can it also if the goal is societies. Can it also turn whole societies into clay?
Yep, right. Yeah, and that's my point is you know, I put this up. I saw that I saw that she's like what? You haven't been paying attention girl. I Got that one. Yeah, but that one's empty. It is empty.
So anyway, so no and and that's and that's exactly what I'm saying is for the Christian nationalists, they're like no we are gonna Christianize this nation and. And it's almost like they want to avoid suffering.
Sometimes they want to avoid that negative resonation. Well, guess what? You can't. Not on this side that will not happen on this side of eternity. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try it doesn't mean you shouldn't keep proclaiming the gospel regardless of what opposition you face and you have to you have to be at peace with that as A believer understanding that the results are not up to you so you may have people that are like that the Lord is drawing them in and softening them and working on their hearts and they see that they're like Man, can you tell me a little bit more about what's going on with you and your life and and and who's Jesus?
And then you're gonna have people like what happened to me when the Lord saved me 18 years old. And I'm talking about wanting to be baptized. Well that hacked my mom off because I was baptized. We were Lutheran.
I was baptized as a baby and she thought I was just saying that was null and void and I'm like I'm trying to explain to her the purpose of believers baptism. You know, she also was for abortion. That was an awkward conversation and it did it hardened and there was some of this that happened like we have to understand something brothers and sisters that that the world the worldly systems and and Those who are apart from Christ.
They hate the law of God. They hate it. Do you really think apart from the salvific efficacious work of the Lord Jesus Christ that you are that you're just. You're gonna gonna take somebody who hates God's law vehemently violently viscerally and.
And you're not gonna have any opposition. I Mean now the Lord may show grace. I mean there are plenty of non-believers out there who do hold to certain aspects of God's law. But but it's not because they love it.
That's a grace of God. So I just I just wanted to put a pin in what you're saying right there just because. Yes, it's gonna resonate with your family. And then yes, it's gonna resonate at your job Lord willing and yes that wherever you go the gym school systems.
Fill in the blank. I mean conversations that you have with image bearers each and every day in your circle of influence. So but just I mean, yes, it should resonate with them and it may soften them or it may harden them.
So yeah. Yeah, exactly.
So so all of those things will at least our prayer is will Have an effect a positive correct. Absolutely on our community, right? But what we're not saying is We need like I need to go out and run for mayor of my town and then issue ordinances that says, okay.
Now everyone must go to church. Everyone must be.
Yeah, go for it. You try that let me know how that works out for you.
Yeah, but but another thing that's interesting is when when we look at the Great Commission, right? Now I would say I would say that as a as a post-millennialist. That God has given the nations to Christ, right?
So so Jesus Is Lord over all nations. He's Lord now. It's not whether they eventually come to accept him as Lord. He's Lord now. He's ruling and reigning now over every single nation. Now, I also believe that The nations will be discipled.
Where I would disagree with some of these Christian nationalists is how we go about doing that. Because it doesn't go from top down. It goes from bottom out. The the gospel Starting with me going out into everyone whom I see right and It spreads.
Does that make sense? Am I saying that? Okay. Just wanted to make sure I would.
You should go and listen to James Coates's Series that he did at grace life on the kingdom.
Yeah, because it's probably super dis be pre mill is that why it is very biblical. By the way, by the way bond servant for Jesus asked what fresca tastes like. Tastes like dispensational tears. It's a bit salty.
But I love you. But so do I believe the nations will be discipled. Yeah, I do. But I believe we have to go about it the right way, right? I do believe God has given the nations to Christ because the because when we look at the Great Commission We have to ask will the nations be discipled.
Will they well if Christ has all authority in heaven on earth and the command is to go forth and and in Disciple the nations. Well, will they?
Will they Go, I mean, you know, I'm gonna disagree with you. It's not that The nation's won't be disciples. No that there will be people from every tribe 10 tongue every tribe nation in tongue. Absolutely but the nations themselves apart from the.
Again, I'm gonna go back to apart from the salvific efficacious regenerative work of hearts, right? That will influence right? Yes, but as far as the nation's being discipled, I think in the ways that you are thinking.
No, I would actually I would agree. I would agree that when it's speaking of people from every tribe tongue in nation yeah, I would. I would agree but now when I look at The Great Commission and the Christian Nationalists.
Okay, it's almost like we need to Christianize America. But what about the other nations. What about the world. You're focusing on one what about the other here's another thing? Okay. Here's another thing.
Let's bring another MacArthur sermon into this. Because I think we've touched on a couple already. Let's bring another one in. When we look at the sins of Romans 1. Okay, America has gone through all of those sins, oh, yeah and.
What the thing about Romans 1 is when you get to those points? That's because God has already turned you over. So now Chris is America already turned over to those sins as judgment from God. Yes. And what is the only way to come back from that?
Uh. The Lord stepping in. The Lord stepping in period being faith are being faithful with the gospel. Mm-hmm, right not arguing over I mean, I know we kind of do it here jokingly but not arguing over eschatology.
We don't argue over it. We have we have we have fun conversations. Yeah, but not arguing over eschatology not even arguing over Christian nationalism. But elevating Christ. Mm-hmm. Growing in holiness in Christ likeness.
So so that others may come to know Christ and right and that's yeah. Yeah, here's the other thing when you look at social media in the way some of these pastors behave on social media. Against other brothers like you just said calling them effeminate.
When non-believers like someone like James Lindsay who does who's an atheist who works with. For some reason Christian ministries. I don't know why they partner with him when he looks at the bickering of over stupid stuff of believers.
Can they say oh they love Christ? Absolutely, not. You know why because Christ is not even elevated in any of those conversations. He's not he's not honored.
Not only is his name not elevated and spoken. But I mean the way that I never know. I've already said it a couple times. So I won't belabor the point but the way they operate and the optics of that situation and of the way they operate.
Show that. I mean if you're just going on the optics of how they operate on social media. You just kind of go I have to go. Sincerely you proclaim to be a little Christ. How important is Christ to you?
How important is honoring Christ how important is is operating with the character of Christ? Important to you what? Here's a here. Oh, okay. So one of the things that I heard recently is the group before the individual.
Right if what you're doing if what you're doing doesn't elevate the group don't do it. At any at any given point? So taking that and that's a business principle. So but but it did. Let's let's let's put a pin in that for a second and say this that If you're a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you understand that you represent him first and foremost and then you represent his church second? So if how you're operating how you're what you're thinking what you're saying and what you're doing.
Does not elevate Christ. Doesn't glorify Christ. Stop. Stop if if you can't if you're gonna write a tweet. An X or whatever it is. If you're gonna post something on there. Like does this elevate Christ and does this show that the Lord that the character of Christ Romans 8 29 being?
Conformed more and more into the image of his son. Like if that's not the case then stop.
Yeah, now there was there was a question up here from Tracy. Good one. What about Christian politicians? Yeah, this is a really good question. So I'm all for if there is a politician That We can look at we can we can examine biblically That that we would say checks all checks all the the boxes, right.
The problem is I don't think there are. Well, let on let me rephrase that I think out in Oklahoma I think Dusty Deavers is actually running for state Senate. Yeah, yeah Dusty is is hardcore Abolitionist, I mean he is he's one of the leading guys in the abolitionist movement That's responsible for introducing bills for abolition so Now are there Christian politicians.
I'm all for if you're a Christian and You feel that you are called to serve on that in that arena Right in in the area of politics if you can do it without being corrupted. You know, that's gonna be a really hard thing.
You know, yeah go for it it's I mean if you're walking with the Lord, you know. Everybody always delight yourself in the Lord. I'll give you the desires of your heart right that verse is taken out of context a ton.
But if you're walking with the Lord and You just walk in with the Lord seeking and desiring after holiness Sanctification and that's that's what you want to do or chosen to do for a career and the Lord puts that Opportunity in front of you and you want to do it go for it.
Just make sure you do Colossians 317 right and whatever you do Whether in word or in deed do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus giving thanks to God the Father through him. Whatever you do. So if that's what you want to do go for it.
Understand the uphill battle that you are gonna be. It doesn't matter whether you're left right in the middle. That doesn't matter where you fall. I mean it better not be left.
But I mean you can't you cannot consistently be left and be a Christian. Sorry. But I mean when we look at the parties, I mean left and right neither one of them are conservative enough. Neither one of them would hold to biblical standards.
I mean just even on the case of abortion alone. You see people that will always say we want to get rid of abortion, but then they always compromise. Always they don't hold to that conviction that they said they have.
But if there were a Christian politician, you know running for president or my local Local offices or things like that and I could I could actually examine them talk to them and you know. Sure vote for them, I think it would be.
I think it would actually be a duty to vote for them, but. Yeah, there's a let me see there was another comment here. From Kathy Lindsay speaking of James Lindsay knows the ins and outs of CRT Marxism and etc.
So I'm assuming When you're asked when I said, you know, why are Christian ministries partnering with him that you said this. You know, that is a lot that that is the argument. Well James James Lindsay knows a lot of this stuff he does there's also a lot of Christians who knew this stuff already that saw it coming down the pipe I mean Vodie Bauckham spoke on this in terms of ethnic Gnosticism.
I think in oh my goodness 2019 no, I think no it was before that. What's it really? He's on he was on the dividing line years before that. It might have been like 2012 2010 20. Oh, wow, like that like it was a while ago Vodie Bauckham was talking about it.
He was seeing it. James White was seeing it. Andrew and Anthony. So we're talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Daryl Virgil Daryl and Virgil Daryl y 'all I've seen Daryl's library.
Trust me if y 'all we do not need to go to outside Unbelievers and partner with them to understand the the ins and the outs of socialism Marxism, etc. So on so CRT Intersectionality, etc. So on and so forth you.
The Lord has sovereignly placed people for years in our camp. We can go to and be trusted. And even if he didn't pick up a book. Boys and girls. Yeah, straight up like I'm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no there's no reason to partner with unbelievers. I mean scriptures clear for what fellowship does light have with darkness. I.
Mean of evangelize them. I mean and if you want to spend time with them outside of an influence kind of, you know. Circle of influence kind of thing. And yeah sure go for it, but partnering with them.
Platforming them. Careful. I wouldn't. Yeah, so hold on there's another comment, but Lindsey was fired I'm guessing years ago and facing it in the university. That's true. So so I know what you're talking about.
So I don't think I don't think it was him that was fired. I think it was his buddy Pete Bogosian something like that. They actually did. They wrote some of these papers That were in that ended up in scholarly journals that were using CRT language.
To kind of be right back. I gotta take something to my wife real quick. She needs something. I'll be right back. Yeah, you do you bro?
They were exposing it in Yeah, Bogosian. Yeah, Peter Bogosian. Yeah they were exposing exposing it in the universities, then there was a I Think it was up in Washington State kind of the experiment that was going on With utilizing CRT in one of the community colleges there in it it Absolutely failed it backfired it it was an awful thing and one of the one of the professors there was actually called a racist and he was super progressive liberal.
If yeah, but yeah, but the thing is, you know, we don't we still don't need to partner with Atheists with unbelievers. We don't need to invite them to our conferences. We don't need to Have them on our podcasts and get their takes on things because we already have people within the Christian camp That already know these things that have been seeing these things that have been studying these things.
I mean we can read the same books. We understand history and politics and other forms of government like socialism Marxism all the same. So there's there's absolutely no need to partner with unbelievers Han holds here says it's one thing to read and Resource their material to help understand the topic but to partner promote and invite to your conferences that should not Happen that's absolutely right and Welcome back to the show Chris Hough, ladies and gentlemen.
Now, hold on. I see Kofi put a hot take in here. I got because it's real Kofi. I got Kofi. What's up, dude?
Hot take bro. He even tells us hot take. American Christians are pragmatism. American Christians are pragmatist first, you know, so if it works, we'll ignore the issues. Lindsay speaks to issues. We think are important.
So we turn a blind eye Mike drop.
He's very true. It's right, but and I don't really get it, but no one asked my opinion. So I keep my right.
Kofi I like your radical views in your hot takes brother. No, but he's absolutely right. American Christians are pragmatists and. And it's so funny how those same. The same brothers I'm gonna be gracious here and say those same brothers Joel Webb and Dale Partridge, right.
The extreme the the extreme patriarchy folks the extreme Christian nationalist folks the Stephen Wolfe Steven. They're the same people who wouldn't say well, we're not gonna play Bethel. We're not gonna play Hillsong.
We're gonna sing psalms because we want to be regulative. Same with folks following Jordan Peterson. Egg. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's I mean here. I love the dudes over at GBR s but I'm not gonna partner with them on something and Do the guy to do like do something like that because they're not believers.
I love the guys. There are a lot of fun and I've learned a lot from them just from a practical temporal sense.
Yeah, they're not allowed to have ads on matter of theology. No, no, they won't.
So. So but yeah, I mean the same people who are say we want to be regulative principle of people of worship. Well that applies not just to what you do on the Lord's Day that applies to what you do each and every day.
Mm-hmm. That's right.
Exact Kofi. Yeah, that's you know, and where does this pragmatism come from man? It comes from all the wolves fleas in the flock, right? American Christianity is a joke. For the most part. Yes, sir. Hold on.
D just keeps going. Or even Ben Shapiro.
Yeah, if you're gonna go on Ben Shapiro show tick I mean learn from Vodie and learn from John.
Preach the gospel. Preach the gospel. Yep. Well now seems like a good time to bring in our sponsors.
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Okay, you need remember well, that's in your Expository skills. Okay. I'm still working with you on that. Yes, you are. Okay, so You need To spend the $50 get the basic package because that's what I I have the basic package.
Okay, it's the basic package. It will help With your Bibles. I mean it will just enhance it. Okay, the word studies, right? The word studies because because. Look, I know I know you probably have the literal app and the LSB app and stuff and you're probably going.
Well, what's this? I don't like the LSB app. Well, you're probably going tapping it and going what's this word, you know, and in the original, okay. That's gonna give you the lexical form. What you need is logos because when you're doing word study It's gonna give you the form that appears in the text and it's gonna tell you the mood the case.
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I'm get this and I got two bookshelves in there and I got books on the floor. So yeah. Yeah, that's cute. Yeah.
So there are a couple of comments. Yeah, maybe maybe one day your library will go into an adult library and actual bookshelves. Yeah.
Okay, which one? Well, somebody somebody D D Otero said. Also what about Prager? Did you handle that while I was gone? No she said. Shall I go on? Why am I not seeing this? I don't know. It was at 9 58 p .m.
According to my little screen here anyway.
Yeah, Dennis Prager, yeah, okay. Oh, oh right because of.
He does have some weird views on. That should absolutely be.
Because of those views he should be rejected. Yes, he but isn't he Jewish. I.
Think so, but there's there's literally like that's one of the things it's like well You know peep like these guys like Ben Shapiro or not Ben Shapiro. That's a bad example. But I'm not comparing Prager to Shapiro in any way shape or form.
But Prager for example. No, you don't there is nothing. Everything we need all of life Is right here in the Bible. We do not need. It's like Steve Lawson says okay that look the Bible is more up-to-date than yesterday's newspaper or tomorrow's newspaper.
However, he says it how does it say true? Do you know why you know, he says it the Bible's more up-to-date than. So, yeah, the point is This is the living and active Word of God. This is the one that that that is the double-edged sword that Separates the bone from the marrow the judging and and and bring into account the intentions of the heart.
Like we don't need outside sources to understand what's happening in the world around us. We just have we have scripture. That's not saying don't listen to people if you don't if you want to but then you get people like Prager.
Who. His views on pornography and child pornography. Oh, no. Yeah indeed. He said again. She said Prager can constantly quotes. Oh on his Facebook page. There was a video there.
There was a video of of him with a Bible in front of him Talking about how looking at pornography is not wrong It's not a sin and and then he had some comments that I'm not gonna repeat about child pornography with the Bible open in front of him.
I.
Did not hear those but I did hear his comments about pornography, but I did not hear those. Yeah, I mean it's amazing what we fall for. Yeah, right, I mean you need just just The American Church in general.
It's like oh, well someone calls themselves Christian. Well, who are we say that they're not right? We just We're not gonna judge them. We're just gonna we're just gonna believe that they are. They went to they went to youth camp they threw their pinecone in the fire, okay, I Believe that they are.
All right, I believe.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, somebody asked KT asked if this is a flag on a hat back here. Yes. That's a very obnoxious embroidered with over 24 ,000 stitches on a trucker hat. From the boys at GBRS group, these are sold out right now.
Otherwise, I would give drew the link to post it.
But so we do have. Explain yeah, explain regulative. So this is something you and I. The hours we have spent talking about the differences between regulative and normative principles. We're in Anthony time, by the way, we are in Anthony time.
That's okay. That is okay. Send it.
We We can go all night if we want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Jason cave gold fringe. Yes, sir. I know what you mean Dude, yeah, so we drew and I throughout the years Bro, I can't even tell you the number of hours you and I have spent Talking about this studying this and podcasting on this topic.
So Let's boil it down this way I'll use I'll use Vodie Bacchum's explanation this is just a very simple because I need it way of explaining the difference between regulative principle and Normative principle.
Okay, so has our Vodie explains it Okay and you can go find this message by the way in the 2019 truth matters conference at grace community churches when he gave this message and He said the difference between regulative and normative is this here's an example, okay.
Normative principle would be like, okay. It's my wife and I it's our anniversary. Okay, I really like watches. I like watches So I'm gonna get her then. I love my wife and I love my wife I'm gonna get her the nicest watch I can find.
Because I love watches and I love my wife. Regulative principle would be and I'm gonna use Vodie's words here because they're just genius he goes regulative principle would say I needed to get a degree in my life ology and I Need to study her listen to her know exactly what she wants and likes and needs and that's what I'm gonna get for.
So so another easy way to explain it is would be regulative is we're regulated By exactly what is in the scriptures Normative says well the Bible's not against this and I like to do it. So we're gonna do it.
It works pragmatism. It works and it's not the Bible says don't Doesn't say don't do it. So we're gonna do it.
Right. Yeah, anything you'd add to that? Yeah. I mean, I would just say that that's usually where how I lead off with it is Regulative we are Regulated by what scripture says we don't go beyond what scripture says we don't add to what scripture says, right?
Normative if it's not in scripture, therefore we can do it or therefore it's right, right? And so Now the problem is people would who would hold to the normative principle. They would say that well, I Mean, it's not in scripture.
So it so how can it be wrong? Scripture doesn't speak against it. It does. If you look at Nadab and Abihu It's the prime example. Because Nadab and Abihu when they offered strange fire God didn't say they couldn't offer that fire.
Yeah, they just had a Regulated a specific fire that God told them to offer and they do it. Right, it wasn't that the fire they offered was prohibited. It just wasn't what God required. Mm-hmm. So they offered a strange fire that God had not not.
They offered not the fire that God required and they died correct. So the normative principle will lead you to death. That's what a Christian nationalist would say. Bro that needs to be a new segment what a Christian nationalist would say.
I Like that. You're all man. Yeah, so that is that that's the normative in the regulative principle. Yeah, and what we see in churches today is a lot of churches want to be normative and they want to be normative because They can make the argument.
Well Scripture doesn't speak against this. The people like it it's bringing more people in. We can continue doing it but you're not honoring God in that way and I think there are levels to right you've got the.
The folks that hold to the normative principle of worship who. Mmm, they truly do love the Lord. That they do I would say they just.
Well, I would say some I would. That there are those they do truly love the Lord but some of the normative things that they're following are more tradition Than they are prescribed. So there's just a habit of doing it in the church, right?
You know things like altar, right? Right, right. They're not necessarily sinful. When we understand the origins of it we go well it can be problematic. But it's not necessarily sinful to do an altar call.
It's not necessarily against scripture but most people follow it because and they like it because it's a Tradition that they've grown up with and so to not have it would be uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. So so they kind of they latch on to things like that, right?
Right, but but so that's one level right and then the other level is like an Andy Stanley.
You know to where it's in that Andy Stanley does not believe. In practice I Mean or or in word I mean in word or indeed that that the scriptures are sufficient and that the Holy Spirit is able to save When the word is heralded.
You know, there are tons of churches that think that that take normative to an extreme. We have to entertain and if we don't entertain people won't show up and well. The church is not for people we benefit but the church is for the Lord.
It's for Christ. That's right. That's it. All right. Well, wait, wait something Hanholt said that I want you to grab and I wholeheartedly agree with. He says he said can I just say one thing. Can we put to death the idiotic term baby Christian.
Yes.
Bro I'm all for that. All for it because oh that does irk me when I hear that. Because you never see that term in curse. In in scripture you never see Paul going. Well, I was a baby Christian man. Like give me some leeway like no Paul got saved.
He went and preached which he probably shouldn't have done. But then he went back to the elders and then he would he learned from them and became examined and then he got sent out.
To go to go plant churches, but I think I think where people are getting it from is first Corinthians 3. I gave you milk to drink not solid food for you were not able to receive it. Indeed. Even now you are still not able.
You know, but That doesn't mean they're baby Christians. I mean they're being disobedient. Yes, remember the first Corinthians is a rebuke to the church in Corinth on multiple levels so.
So yeah, I agree buddy. Get rid of that thing. And the the other thing that irks me is people going looking at someone who's like five or six years professing Christian and going. They're still growing.
They just they they're just they're growing. It's like well, what have you been doing for five years, dude?
Don't use it as an as an excuse. Yeah, it's it's justifying behavior. Yeah, that's that's all that's all it is. Like I mean. It's like oh, they're still well. We all are like sanctify Kate your progressive sanctification only ends when either the Lord himself returns or calls you home.
That's when that stops. So it's always a process. I mean, oh, yeah, he's just a baby Christian. No.
You are a Christ follower. Be obedient. Yeah, he's just. I hear that all the time. Oh, he's he's still growing. He's still growing but like who ain't Who ain't still growing. I'm not where I was but I'm not where I want to be.
But I'm also not sitting on my hands that runs in that Vodie bottom click or a clip when he's like I haven't I have to find it. It's um, our brother Jacob Arthur who had a podcast on the bar Network. It was in his intro when Vodie was talking about, you know, I'm not who I want to be but hallelujah I'm not who I was like bodies and tears.
Proclaiming the gospel at that at that point. So yeah.
Yeah. All right. Well, dude, we need to get out of here. But before we get out of here What I want you to do is I want you to give the gospel. Mm-hmm. But I also want you to give the gospel in the context of what we've been discussing tonight.
Hmm.
Good luck don't need luck, bro. Well, let me start out by saying this that apart from Christ any Good morals you think you have? Is just as damning as if you reject God altogether apart from Christ. Moralism humanism moralistic therapeutic deism dams just as much as As as rejecting God altogether.
Apart from the salvific work of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins you and I have no hope period. We are Sinners by nature we were conceived in sin. The Bible tells us We sin because we are sinners.
We are born with hearts of stone. We are born enemies of God we are by nature children of his wrath because of our nature. But thank God. Thank God that he did not leave us there and does not leave us there for those to whom he has elected to save.
To those to whom he's had said you are mine. He has said I will adopt you he sent his son born of a virgin living a life that that that honors the law of God in every way in. Every jot with every tittle he lived the life that we should have lived but were unable to because of our sin.
And then he died on the cross a Sinner's death a criminal's death. That we deserved because we have transgressed the law of God in every way. But didn't stay there. Three days later God raised him from the grave defeating that last enemy which is death and.
To those to whom he saves he replaces our heart of stone with a heart of flesh and applies that work of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins to us. It isn't just that that our sins are forgiven.
It's now that the the righteous life of Christ has been imputed unto us as if we lived it, but we did not. So to anyone in the sound of my voice listening to this apart from Christ when you see where our nation is going when you see What happens in the world around us with laws being passed that that give credence to abortion that give give support to to to trans activists and and and minors and children being able to have these surgeries and everything else when you see all of that when you see the the Dysfunction and all of the nonsense happening around us.
It just seems like there is no hope well apart from Christ. There is no hope. So my my plea to you if you are listening to my voice is repent and turn to the Lord. Confess Jesus Christ as Lord fall on your knees fall on your face beg him to forgive you and understand that if he has.
That you have all hope that nothing absolutely nothing will come against you. Because nothing comes against him. So I would beg you today. I would earnestly beg you to repent and turn to Christ. No longer living for yourself, but living a life of holiness.
Because you love God understanding what he has done for you in your place and that he loves you first.
Nice. Amen. Now everyone. I know there's no such thing as luck. Okay, I I'm reading the comment and I'm going.
Oh Dude like you put me on the spot see cuz I was like, oh in the context of Christian that I mean, dude. There's how long you got?
So so Han hold said oh sure just throw him out there. Well, okay, so usually when I'm hosting I do try to make a point that it's me who gives the Presentation. I always try to make that happen. But I figured this time I would throw Chris out there and let him do it.
Well, and you know, I mean always be prepared in season out of season, you know. Like I mean somebody that's that's that's a that's some good advice, right? Does somebody gave me once. It's like, you know you're not ready at every moment to to proclaim and herald the gospel and and Don't be too proud to beg people to repent.
Then what are you doing? Yep, that's right. And this was a while ago, but Melissa Owen says I completely agree with everything you gentlemen have said. Me too, especially the part about my fresca tasting like dispensational tears, you know I'm glad you agree with that Melissa.
We're on the same page. Just kidding. Man it's late and I'm tired. But I hope you have enjoyed this discussion tonight. We've kind of went all over the place. Not a lot of things. But we hope that it was edifying to you we hope that We We hope that we explained things.
Well at least our position in how we view things that We don't. There are people we disapprove of. But there are people that we would still call brothers. Oh, yeah Christ. But we also don't approve of their behavior online and we would call them to repent and we also think If we're if our goal is actually to take America It first begins with you and self-control and Elevating Christ in your own life.
Yeah, come on before you start going to promote Christ, you know politically. Okay. Hmm, did that make sense? Because I feel like I'm half asleep right now. Yeah, I made sense. Okay, it made sense. Great.
So Chris we need to head out of here. Everyone we will see on the next one. Well, at least I will. I don't know if Chris will probably. Probably okay. Good. Well as we head out from here strive to make each day an eternal day for the glory of God.
We will see you later. Love you guys.