December 18, 2020 Show with Dr. Michael A. G. Haykin on “Strangers & Pilgrims on the Earth: Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims (1620-2020)”
December 18, 2020
Dr. MICHAEL A. G. HAYKIN, Professor of Church History & Biblical Spirituality (2008) & Director of the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies @ The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky, will discuss:
“STRANGERS & PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH: Remembering the MAYFLOWER PILGRIMS (1620 – 2020)”
Transcript
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.
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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the
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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 18th day of
December 2020.
And I'm so thrilled to have back on the program one of my favorite guests to interview.
His name is Dr. Michael A .G. Hagen, and I'm sure that most of you in our audience
are very familiar with Dr. Hagen, but for the sake of those of you who are not, he is a professor of church history
and biblical spirituality, and director of the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies at
the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.
And today we are going to be addressing his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth,
Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims, which he has edited and contributed to.
And we're also going to add to the topic, the Puritan Movement in the Reigns
of Elizabeth and James I.
And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Michael Hagen.
And if you could, first of all, just briefly let our listeners know about
the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.
Yeah,
the
Andrew
Fuller
Center.
Great.
Well, praise God.
Now tell us about a publisher that may not be very
familiar to many in our audience.
This is the publisher of the book we are going to be addressing, Strangers and Pilgrims
on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims, from 1620 to 2020.
And I'm speaking of H &E Publishing.
Tell us something about this publishing company.
Two younger brothers, they
have
a vision
of
theology,
what they've been adding.
It came at the idea from a pastor.
Now explain the full title of the publisher.
H &E stands for Hesed and Emmet.
And the website, just to let our listeners explore what you have available at that
publishing ministry.
H -E -S -E -D -A -N -D -E -M -E -T dot com.
Hesed and Emmet dot com.
Tell us about what that means.
It's a tremendous, as I said, a tremendous venture in so many ways.
It's the only reformed publishing house in Canada.
Speaking of Canadian authors and theologians and apologists,
our mutual dear friend, Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist
Seminary, sends his warm Christian greetings to you.
And tell us also about Roy M. Paul and John Clements.
Well, actually, I believe you already mentioned John Clements, I think, didn't you?
I did, Joe.
So
John
Clements,
he
went
down
there.
One of the eldest
men since I would
not exist.
Quite a number of them are
contrast.
If you ever go to Northampton,
never
heard of
the man.
I have no idea where his church might be.
Wow.
That reminds me of years ago when I worked for a major radio station,
WMCA 570 AM, which is a part of the largest Christian
radio network in the world, Salem Media.
A Christian radio station from or in, I should say, London, England,
which was the very first Christian radio station in London, England, because as you probably know,
for years, the UK banned religious radio for some
reason.
And this person was the first general manager of that first radio station in London,
Christian radio station.
And he was visiting our station to speak with the advertising sales team, which
I was on.
And I said to this man in the conference room, you know, I always wanted to visit London.
I always had an earnest desire to visit the Metropolitan
Tabernacle in London.
And the man looked at me and he said, pardon?
I said, the Metropolitan Tabernacle.
I'm sorry, I'm not following you.
I said, you know, where Charles Adams Spurgeon was the pastor in the 19th century.
I'm still not following you.
Never heard of him.
I was like, excuse me.
And this guy was the general manager of a Christian radio station in London.
Never heard of Charles Spurgeon.
Well, I'm going to read a commendation for your book by a mutual friend of ours that I've known for
many years.
In fact, I was involved in the launching of Dr.
Joel Beakey's first radio program in the 1990s.
And Dr. Beakey has said this about your book.
For many Americans, the word pilgrims brings to mind little more than the Mayflower, Plymouth
Rock, and eating turkey.
However, the history of the pilgrims is actually a story of Reformed Christians who embraced convictions
that led them to separate from the Church of England, fleeing persecution to establish a colony
on the wild shores of the New World.
This well -written and helpful collection of biographical and historical essays highlights both the
foibles and courage of these Christians who played a major role in the foundation
of the new nation.
Implicit practical lessons relevant to the calling of contemporary Christians who strive to live biblically
and faithfully abound in this enlightening book.
Wow, that is some powerful commendation from Dr. Joel Beakey, President of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary
in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
And by the way, folks, he will be our guest on Monday, the 28th
of December.
So that's just a couple of weeks away, and we hope that you tune in for that
interview.
It's been a while since Dr. Beakey has been on the program, so I look forward to his return.
What was the most compelling factor that led you to write this book to begin with?
The
New York
Times
said that
without
wanting
to
say
yes,
that's
not
to
demonstrate.
Now, if you could clarify for us, why specifically were
the Pilgrims, those that became to be known as the Pilgrims,
why did they have to flee England, and why were they being persecuted by the Church of
England?
This was already after the English Reformation.
So why did they become such enemies of the Church of England, and for what specific reasons were they
persecuted?
And also, how were they persecuted?
Yeah, so
you
really,
surprisingly,
in
the
1500s,
they wanted a religious uniformity in England.
They did not, they were the head of one church.
So the argument really was, if there is one king, or monarch, there is one church.
One church opened up all kinds of avenues, and
one of them had to do with,
they wanted to
be left alone
30 miles of a geographical radius around.
I got to the point, deep regret, they
left England.
It was
really,
religious refugees ended
up in, as
they grew up,
it wasn't because of, I tend to
forget this, but,
vulture hasn't come down to me.
I
married
my mom,
who was
Irish, but
eventually, 1500s,
England is
beginning to
explore
what we
now
call Plymouth.
Well, we're going to go to our first commercial break, and we'll pick up right where you left off when we return.
If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own about the Mayflower
Pilgrims, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S
-A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
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We'll be right back with Dr. Michael Hagan and more of our discussion on the Mayflower Pilgrims right
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I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church.
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Who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the
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Welcome back.
This is Chris Arnzen.
If you just tuned us in, our guest for the entire two hours today, with a little bit less than 90 minutes to go, is
Dr. Michael A .G. Haken.
And we are discussing his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering
the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.
And if you have a question you'd like to ask, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.
C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.
Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.
And we have a question from Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.
He wants to know, in your description of the pilgrims, they almost sounded like they could have been
Baptistic.
Were they?
I know.
Well, thank you, Harrison.
And please make sure we have your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, because
you are getting a beautiful gift from H &E Publishers, and that is this book,
Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020
by Dr. A .G. Haken.
And thank you very much for your excellent question.
We also have a listener who happens to be a
loyal listener and a very generous supporter of this program financially, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.
Hello, brothers.
Why was Virginia where the pilgrims wanted to go originally?
Was this because other settlers had already been there?
Probably not have taken...
Well, thank you, Grady.
And make sure we get your full mailing address in Asheboro, North Carolina, because you are
also getting a free copy of this wonderful book.
Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims,
1620 to 2020.
And by the way, you might find this humorous, Dr. Haken, but when somebody saw my
promotion for this interview today on Facebook, they replied, so Dr.
Haken actually remembers the pilgrims?
Wow, I don't think I've ever had that hearty a laugh from a guest on this program.
Well, before I go to any more listener questions, and I will get to
as many as I can before the end of the program, so just be patient a little.
I just want to make sure that I get some other content in the program here.
Can you go through some of the slanderous stereotypes that have been
hurled tragically against the pilgrims and why you believe these are
nothing but stereotypes or slanders?
Yeah, I mean,
they're the
dominant in a context
like that to fall back into.
I
saw John
Owen to
take
it
as a negative remark.
In the last 400 years is what we have done with
the century literature.
I know that that term was used initially by a
white
supremacist.
They have conflicts with some of the first people,
tribes.
Did they not even permit interracial marriage between whites and Native American Indians?
I think that that is the case, but I can get back to you on that.
And we'll take one more question before we go to our midway break.
In fact, I think what I'd like to do so I don't have to interrupt you in mid -sentence, I will have,
I will read this question to you.
And then we'll have you answer it when we come back from our midway break.
And this is from Eric in Mahomet, Illinois.
And he has to say, I have a relative who is descended from the strangers,
the non -pilgrims, aboard the Mayflower.
What do we know about the interaction between the strangers and the pilgrims?
Were there any conversions to Christ through the pilgrim's gospel witness?
So we'll have you answer that when we come back from our midway break.
And folks, I hope that you're patient with us during this midway break because it is longer than the other breaks.
Because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the
show because they are required by the FCC to air their own public service
announcements and other local things that localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio geographically to
Lake City, Florida.
So while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.
Therefore, I'm asking you to use this time wisely.
Please write down as much of the information as possible that is provided by our advertisers so that you can more
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So please try to keep them happy, try to patronize them as much as possible, and at least reach
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Also, use this time to write down questions for our guest, Dr. Michael A .G. Haken,
on his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from
1620 to 2020.
And our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at
gmail .com.
And please give us your first name, at least, your city and state and your country of residence.
Don't go away.
We'll be right back with Dr. Michael Haken after these messages from our sponsors.
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Since 2006, most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income
loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic.
Do not give up.
No matter what state you live in, call Buttafuoco Associates now at 1 -800
-669 -4878.
Buttafuoco Associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation, and they are working with lead counsel
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It is the best way for you to proceed.
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Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years.
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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.
Give yourself unto reading.
The man who never reads will never be read.
He who never quotes will never be quoted.
He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.
You need to read.
Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.
The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and
future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting
books for all ages.
We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past
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We would likely not continue to exist, barring a miracle from God,
without the financial support of solid -ground -books .com.
So please, while there's still time, do a lot of your Christmas shopping that
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And please always remember that you shouldn't just purchase good, solid,
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You should also be purchasing books for your lost friends and loved ones and prayerfully give them to
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And before we return to our guest today, Dr. Michael A .G. Hagen on his book, Strangers and
Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020, we
just have a couple of important announcements to make.
This Monday, the 21st of
December, the Monday before Christmas, we are going to have a first -time event here on this program.
In all the years that I have hosted this program, even though I have interviewed both Dr.
James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and our mutual friend, Pastor Bill Shishko
of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, Long Island, New York, known as The Haven.
I've interviewed them both many times, but for the first time ever on Monday,
December 21st, they are both going to be filling in for me as co
-hosts and as guest hosts of this program.
I will not be on the program.
It will be hosted, as I said, by Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and Pastor Bill Shishko
of The Haven Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, Long Island, New York.
So please mark your calendar to listen to that.
I can't wait to hear what they have to say myself, and I hope that you are blessed, and I'm
absolutely certain that you will be.
And folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm urging you, I'm pleading
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Last but not least, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and
you're not even looking for one, please let me lovingly correct you that that is not
acting in obedience to Christ.
There is no such thing as a maverick or lone wolf Christian in the New Testament who is not a
member of a local church, who is not under the oversight and care of local
undershepherds.
So please help me rectify that situation for you.
I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet earth and I have helped many people in our audience in all parts
of the globe find churches sometimes that were just minutes away from their home that they didn't even know
existed or at least they didn't know that they were biblically faithful.
So if you are in that category or you have a loved one who is or if you're going on vacation somewhere and you wanna find a good church,
send me an email to chrisarnsend at gmail .com.
Chrisarnsend at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.
That is also the email address where you could send in a question to Dr. Michael Haken on our theme today,
strangers and pilgrims on the earth, remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020
as chrisarnsend at gmail .com.
And Dr. Haken, you likely remember that we got an email from Eric in
Mahomet or Mahomet, I'm not sure how they pronounce that in Illinois.
But he says, I have a relative who is a descendant of the strangers, the non -pilgrims aboard
the Mayflower.
What do we know about the interaction between the strangers and the pilgrims?
Were there any conversations or I'm sorry, were there any conversions to Christ through the pilgrims gospel
witness?
Yes,
some
of
the
community
that
is
now.
Well, thank you, Eric.
And please make sure we have your full mailing address in Mahomet or Mahomet, Illinois or Illinois.
And we will have cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, one of the sponsors of this
program, mail this book out to you that we have been discussing today, strangers
and pilgrims on earth.
And we want to thank cvbbs .com for always shipping out our listeners
who win books and Bibles and other things.
Shipping these products out to our listeners at no charge to our listeners or to you
or to us, I should say.
And I also want to thank again H &E Publishers for
generously providing these books.
And don't forget about their website, hesedandemet .com, H -E -S -E -D -A -N -D
-H -E -M -E -T .com.
And we have a listener in Alabama who has a question.
We have Ted in Moundville, Alabama who says, how would Dr. Hagen
categorize the chief difference, chief differences between the pilgrims and
the Puritans who did not emigrate to America?
I'm wondering not only theological differences, but also the social, sociological, and
perhaps even psychological characteristics that distinguished those Puritans who made the
trip across the Atlantic.
Dr.
Hagen
Wow,
that's
the
Atlantic,
1630s, and running through to about 65,
disastrous
weather, interfering with the crew,
hardiness.
I've read a number of books over the last few years on those emigrations.
And what just strikes you is just the significant courage of these men and women
about the
American
character can be explained.
That's why the founding of Plymouth and then Purit,
part of the American story, character
and courage and hardiness of these individuals, much
larger.
In England,
who we know
as pure
Atlantic, they're essentially giving up.
He comes to Boston in the 1630s, and he'll eventually go back.
He comes to the New World and would go back,
venture out into the, has characterized American culture down through the
centuries.
David.
Well, thank you, Ted.
And please make sure we have your full mailing address in Moundsville,
Alabama, because you have just won a free copy of Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth by our guest
today, Dr. Michael Hagen.
And keep your eye out in the mail for a package from cvbbs .com because they are the ones
shipping it out to you.
Cvbbs .com.
And we thank H &E Publishers once again for providing us with these books that we've been given away.
We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania,
who said, was not Pocahontas a Native American who lived amongst the
pilgrims and did she not intermarry with one of them?
I guess this is coming from the earlier question about, or actually I brought it up about intermarriage.
Dr. Hagen Yeah, no, she's further south.
She's in Virginia.
David.
Thank you, Susan Margaret.
You've also won Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth.
So make sure we have your full mailing address in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.
So cvbbs .com can ship that out to you.
We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania, who says, I have friends
who are Seventh -day Baptists.
And when I did some research on this rarely heard denomination, I have come
to learn that some of their congregations are the oldest active congregations in
the United States.
Are the Seventh -day Baptists a group that sprang out of the pilgrims?
And were there any among the pilgrims?
Dr. Hagen No. Seventh -day Baptists would be,
again, out
of
being
raised.
That
would
not
be
Calvinistic.
Believers baptism, the day of worship, the
earliest...
David.
I guess that's where the Seventh -day Adventists later got it from.
Dr. Hagen
Their commonality
find, like I'm thinking here of, say, Joseph Stennett.
It was the son of Edward Stennett, he'd worship with on Saturday.
And then Sunday would be free to go around and preach for Calvinistic Baptist churches.
David.
Well, I heard the same thing about Samuel Stennett, who had a very strong friendship with
John Gill, the great 18th century Baptist preacher in England and great
theologian and commentary writer.
And I heard that they did pulpit exchanges with each other.
Dr. Hagen Yep.
David.
Him writer too.
In fact, Samuel Stennett was one of the preachers at John Gill's funeral.
David.
And his funeral message is actually available from Chapel Library in a booklet form.
Dr. Hagen Yep.
David We have Christopher in Western Suffolk
County, Long Island, New York, who says, I have even heard a very strange thing
from leftists here in America about the pilgrims.
Believe it or not, that allegedly they were cannibals.
Have you ever heard this?
And where on earth did this slanderous rumor come from?
Dr. Hagen.
Yeah.
Well, what about the commonly held accusation and blame that is
hurled against European settlers in the
North American continent that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Native
Americans because of the spread of disease?
Is that true?
David Yeah, some of that is true.
And
it
was
on
witty,
ravaged
Europe.
Dr. Hagen.
You could hardly blame any human for that kind of a thing when it was unintentional.
David.
No, no, no, not at all.
By the way, I just happened to Google pilgrims or cannibals, and there
are quite a number of sites that come up.
So this listener was not pulling that out of thin air or inventing that.
Dr. Hagen No,
why we do history and why it's important.
David.
Now, before we move on to the Puritan movement in the reigns of Elizabeth and James I, I
just want to make sure that you include in our discussion anything further that you want
to say of importance about strangers and pilgrims on the earth,
remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.
And I'm really interested about the 2020 part.
I guess you mean that the remembrance is going on until today, but
if you could.
Dr. Hagen We have, as I said,
there's
about
20
articles
in
context in
our
day
that we remember not only the men, but in
addition.
David.
No, my pleasure.
I could have you on many more days to discuss this book.
And when we come back from our final break, which will be much more brief than the others, we'll
begin a conversation on the Puritan movement in the reigns of Elizabeth and James I.
And if you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.
We'll be right back.
Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in
the 21st century.
Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.
It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.
It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.
We're a diverse family of all ages.
Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.
In fellowship, play, and together.
Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can
be.
Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.
That's 516 -599 -9402.
Or visit linbrookbaptist .org.
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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American
Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.
It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been
sticking with or switching to the NASB.
I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at the Toronto Baptist Seminary, and the
NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Jeff Downs of Knox Reform Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, and the NASB is my
Bible of choice.
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NASB is my Bible of choice.
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and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
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I'm Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church in St. Augustine, Florida, and the NASB
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is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.
Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?
Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them
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Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.
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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future, volunteer, donate, pray, or all of
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The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of
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always.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.
Give yourself unto reading.
The man who never reads will never be read.
He who never quotes will never be quoted.
He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read.
Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.
The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and
future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting
books for all ages.
We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past
to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Welcome back, and Dr. Michael Haken, you wanted to make sure that we switched gears, at
least for a part of our discussion, and include the Puritan movement in the reigns of Elizabeth and James I.
So if you could, why is this an important matter we should discuss?
Well,
I
think
it's
because
the
increasingly
public but other
Western
democracy,
Fukuyama, the end of history, and that
Western democracy had won.
So the heart of
democracy is
in
retreat.
Authoritarian, educated, emulated,
is being presented as a model in
democracy in very challenging times.
And I'm not a political
peak into this world, but one of the ways is to remind me, read
me, as I say,
it's not window dressing, it's
at the heart
of men
and
women who...
We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, why
did the Puritans so harshly persecute the Quakers?
And can we actually consider Quakers a
legitimate Christian group?
It is tragic to see how today, the main denomination of Religious Society of Friends
has actually become full -blown in support of homosexuality.
And although I know that there are evangelical offshoots of that group, should we view
historically the Quakers as bonafide Christians?
Um, yes, I think so.
There's no kid that
would be off...
Was the listener correct in saying that the Puritans harshly persecuted them?
Yes.
Yeah, I've even heard that the Baptists, on occasion, were drowned in a mock baptism.
Is that true?
Not, as far as I know,
paranoia that grips Massachusetts and maybe parts of Connecticut as well.
It's an irony, and it's a sad irony, that these men and women who came for religious liberty...
Well, we are out of time, and I could speak for hours and hours with you, brother, and I'm looking forward to your return to the
program in the future, God willing, in the near future.
I want to make sure our listeners have this website again for H &E Publishing.
It's hesedandemmett .com, H -E -S -E -D -A -N -D -H -E -M
-E -T .com, and you can purchase all of the books published by Hesed and
Emmett from cvbbs .com, who actually sponsored this program, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,
cvbbs .com.
If they don't have what you're looking for in stock, they will order it from Hesed and Emmett.
I want to thank you so much, Dr. Hagen, for being such an extraordinary guest, as always.
If you could hang on the line, because I do want to schedule you for another interview.
Okay.
I want to thank everybody who listened.
Don't forget about Monday's program, being hosted by James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Bill
Shishko of the Haven Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, New York, who are filling in as
hosts of the program.
I want you all to have a blessed and safe and joyful and healthy and happy weekend,
and Christ -honoring Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater
Savior than you are a sinner.