December 18, 2020 Show with Dr. Michael A. G. Haykin on “Strangers & Pilgrims on the Earth: Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims (1620-2020)”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 18th day of

December 2020.

And I'm so thrilled to have back on the program one of my favorite guests to interview.

His name is Dr. Michael A .G. Hagen, and I'm sure that most of you in our audience

are very familiar with Dr. Hagen, but for the sake of those of you who are not, he is a professor of church history

and biblical spirituality, and director of the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies at

the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

And today we are going to be addressing his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth,

Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims, which he has edited and contributed to.

And we're also going to add to the topic, the Puritan Movement in the Reigns

of Elizabeth and James I.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Michael Hagen.

And if you could, first of all, just briefly let our listeners know about

the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

Yeah,

the

Andrew

Fuller

Center.

Great.

Well, praise God.

Now tell us about a publisher that may not be very

familiar to many in our audience.

This is the publisher of the book we are going to be addressing, Strangers and Pilgrims

on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims, from 1620 to 2020.

And I'm speaking of H &E Publishing.

Tell us something about this publishing company.

Two younger brothers, they

have

a vision

of

theology,

what they've been adding.

It came at the idea from a pastor.

Now explain the full title of the publisher.

H &E stands for Hesed and Emmet.

And the website, just to let our listeners explore what you have available at that

publishing ministry.

H -E -S -E -D -A -N -D -E -M -E -T dot com.

Hesed and Emmet dot com.

Tell us about what that means.

It's a tremendous, as I said, a tremendous venture in so many ways.

It's the only reformed publishing house in Canada.

Speaking of Canadian authors and theologians and apologists,

our mutual dear friend, Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist

Seminary, sends his warm Christian greetings to you.

And tell us also about Roy M. Paul and John Clements.

Well, actually, I believe you already mentioned John Clements, I think, didn't you?

I did, Joe.

So

John

Clements,

he

went

down

there.

One of the eldest

men since I would

not exist.

Quite a number of them are

contrast.

If you ever go to Northampton,

never

heard of

the man.

I have no idea where his church might be.

Wow.

That reminds me of years ago when I worked for a major radio station,

WMCA 570 AM, which is a part of the largest Christian

radio network in the world, Salem Media.

A Christian radio station from or in, I should say, London, England,

which was the very first Christian radio station in London, England, because as you probably know,

for years, the UK banned religious radio for some

reason.

And this person was the first general manager of that first radio station in London,

Christian radio station.

And he was visiting our station to speak with the advertising sales team, which

I was on.

And I said to this man in the conference room, you know, I always wanted to visit London.

I always had an earnest desire to visit the Metropolitan

Tabernacle in London.

And the man looked at me and he said, pardon?

I said, the Metropolitan Tabernacle.

I'm sorry, I'm not following you.

I said, you know, where Charles Adams Spurgeon was the pastor in the 19th century.

I'm still not following you.

Never heard of him.

I was like, excuse me.

And this guy was the general manager of a Christian radio station in London.

Never heard of Charles Spurgeon.

Well, I'm going to read a commendation for your book by a mutual friend of ours that I've known for

many years.

In fact, I was involved in the launching of Dr.

Joel Beakey's first radio program in the 1990s.

And Dr. Beakey has said this about your book.

For many Americans, the word pilgrims brings to mind little more than the Mayflower, Plymouth

Rock, and eating turkey.

However, the history of the pilgrims is actually a story of Reformed Christians who embraced convictions

that led them to separate from the Church of England, fleeing persecution to establish a colony

on the wild shores of the New World.

This well -written and helpful collection of biographical and historical essays highlights both the

foibles and courage of these Christians who played a major role in the foundation

of the new nation.

Implicit practical lessons relevant to the calling of contemporary Christians who strive to live biblically

and faithfully abound in this enlightening book.

Wow, that is some powerful commendation from Dr. Joel Beakey, President of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary

in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

And by the way, folks, he will be our guest on Monday, the 28th

of December.

So that's just a couple of weeks away, and we hope that you tune in for that

interview.

It's been a while since Dr. Beakey has been on the program, so I look forward to his return.

What was the most compelling factor that led you to write this book to begin with?

The

New York

Times

said that

without

wanting

to

say

yes,

that's

not

to

demonstrate.

Now, if you could clarify for us, why specifically were

the Pilgrims, those that became to be known as the Pilgrims,

why did they have to flee England, and why were they being persecuted by the Church of

England?

This was already after the English Reformation.

So why did they become such enemies of the Church of England, and for what specific reasons were they

persecuted?

And also, how were they persecuted?

Yeah, so

you

really,

surprisingly,

in

the

1500s,

they wanted a religious uniformity in England.

They did not, they were the head of one church.

So the argument really was, if there is one king, or monarch, there is one church.

One church opened up all kinds of avenues, and

one of them had to do with,

they wanted to

be left alone

30 miles of a geographical radius around.

I got to the point, deep regret, they

left England.

It was

really,

religious refugees ended

up in, as

they grew up,

it wasn't because of, I tend to

forget this, but,

vulture hasn't come down to me.

I

married

my mom,

who was

Irish, but

eventually, 1500s,

England is

beginning to

explore

what we

now

call Plymouth.

Well, we're going to go to our first commercial break, and we'll pick up right where you left off when we return.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own about the Mayflower

Pilgrims, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S

-A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of

residence, if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

If you're asking a theological question, for instance, and you are in disagreement with your own pastors,

or maybe you're even a pastor who has developed

doctrines or theology that is at odds with your own fellow elders or your denomination,

something like that, we could understand why you would want to remain anonymous.

But if it's just a general question about history and theology and doctrine, then please give us your

first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

We'll be right back with Dr. Michael Hagan and more of our discussion on the Mayflower Pilgrims right

after these messages from our sponsors.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville

Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck White of the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardenville, Nevada, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org, that's gracechurchatfranklin

.org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

Was your business shut down during the COVID -19 pandemic, depriving you of earning any

money, causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income?

Maybe you've had to close your doors for good.

The good news, you thought, was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of

your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor,

or that you would be in good hands.

You filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the pandemic exclusion clause.

The pandemic exclusion?

Since 2006, most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income loss

claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic.

Do not give up.

No matter what state you live in, call Buttafuoco Associates now

at 1 -800 -669 -4878.

Buttafuoco Associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation, and they are working with lead counsel to

bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims.

It is the best way for you to proceed.

There's absolutely no risk to you.

You do not have to pay them out of pocket, and there is no fee unless you recover on your claim.

You need to call 1 -800 -669 -4878 right now.

Trust the law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on Long Island, New York are

sending their own clients for representation during this lawsuit.

Buttafuoco & Associates.

Here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of the pandemic.

Call 1 -800 -669 -4878.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like

the turquoise goatskin tanned in Italy used for my Nestle All in 28th edition with a navy

blue goatskin inside liner and the electric blue goatskin from a French tannery used to rebind a

Reformation study Bible I used as a gift.

The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather,

making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to

ptlbiblerebinding .com.

That's ptlbiblerebinding .com.

Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World

Magazine by trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World Now at no charge for 90 days by going to getworldnow

.com.

That's getworldnow .com.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a

depth that's simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio, and the fully

shareable content of World Digital.

There's no obligation and no credit card required.

Visit getworldnow .com today.

Also check out World News Group's podcast, The World and Everything In It, at

wng .org forward slash podcast.

That's W for World, N for News, G for Group, dot org forward

slash podcast.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church.

In Corham,.

Who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the

unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ

Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net.

Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest for the entire two hours today, with a little bit less than 90 minutes to go, is

Dr. Michael A .G. Haken.

And we are discussing his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering

the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.

And if you have a question you'd like to ask, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

And we have a question from Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

He wants to know, in your description of the pilgrims, they almost sounded like they could have been

Baptistic.

Were they?

I know.

Well, thank you, Harrison.

And please make sure we have your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, because

you are getting a beautiful gift from H &E Publishers, and that is this book,

Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020

by Dr. A .G. Haken.

And thank you very much for your excellent question.

We also have a listener who happens to be a

loyal listener and a very generous supporter of this program financially, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

Hello, brothers.

Why was Virginia where the pilgrims wanted to go originally?

Was this because other settlers had already been there?

Probably not have taken...

Well, thank you, Grady.

And make sure we get your full mailing address in Asheboro, North Carolina, because you are

also getting a free copy of this wonderful book.

Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims,

1620 to 2020.

And by the way, you might find this humorous, Dr. Haken, but when somebody saw my

promotion for this interview today on Facebook, they replied, so Dr.

Haken actually remembers the pilgrims?

Wow, I don't think I've ever had that hearty a laugh from a guest on this program.

Well, before I go to any more listener questions, and I will get to

as many as I can before the end of the program, so just be patient a little.

I just want to make sure that I get some other content in the program here.

Can you go through some of the slanderous stereotypes that have been

hurled tragically against the pilgrims and why you believe these are

nothing but stereotypes or slanders?

Yeah, I mean,

they're the

dominant in a context

like that to fall back into.

I

saw John

Owen to

take

it

as a negative remark.

In the last 400 years is what we have done with

the century literature.

I know that that term was used initially by a

white

supremacist.

They have conflicts with some of the first people,

tribes.

Did they not even permit interracial marriage between whites and Native American Indians?

I think that that is the case, but I can get back to you on that.

And we'll take one more question before we go to our midway break.

In fact, I think what I'd like to do so I don't have to interrupt you in mid -sentence, I will have,

I will read this question to you.

And then we'll have you answer it when we come back from our midway break.

And this is from Eric in Mahomet, Illinois.

And he has to say, I have a relative who is descended from the strangers,

the non -pilgrims, aboard the Mayflower.

What do we know about the interaction between the strangers and the pilgrims?

Were there any conversions to Christ through the pilgrim's gospel witness?

So we'll have you answer that when we come back from our midway break.

And folks, I hope that you're patient with us during this midway break because it is longer than the other breaks.

Because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the

show because they are required by the FCC to air their own public service

announcements and other local things that localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio geographically to

Lake City, Florida.

So while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

Therefore, I'm asking you to use this time wisely.

Please write down as much of the information as possible that is provided by our advertisers so that you can more

frequently and successfully patronize them.

And sometimes, if you're unable to actually patronize one of our advertisers,

if you can't buy any of their products or use their services or visit their churches

because of where you live and so on, please reach out to them and just thank them for sponsoring

this program.

That might go a long way because, folks, we absolutely positively depend on the financial

support of our advertisers to exist.

So please try to keep them happy, try to patronize them as much as possible, and at least reach

out to them and thank them for sponsoring this program.

Also, use this time to write down questions for our guest, Dr. Michael A .G. Haken,

on his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from

1620 to 2020.

And our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at

gmail .com.

And please give us your first name, at least, your city and state and your country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Michael Haken after these messages from our sponsors.

Was your business shut down during the COVID -19 pandemic, depriving you of earning any

money, causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income?

Maybe you've had to close your doors.

For good.

The good news, you thought, was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of

your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor

or that you would be in good hands.

You filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the Pandemic Exclusion Clause.

The Pandemic Exclusion?

Since 2006, most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income

loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic.

Do not give up.

No matter what state you live in, call Buttafuoco Associates now at 1 -800

-669 -4878.

Buttafuoco Associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation, and they are working with lead counsel

to bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims.

It is the best way for you to proceed.

There's absolutely no risk to you.

You do not have to pay them out of pocket, and there is no fee unless you recover on your claim.

You need to call 1 -800 -669 -4878 right now.

Trust the law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on Long Island, New York, are

sending their own clients for representation during this lawsuit.

Buttafuoco Associates, here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of

the pandemic.

Call 1 -800 -669 -4878.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris.

I always enjoy our time.

You, I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30,

more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to

6 p .m. Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line.

Webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years.

To teach, preach, and debate.

At numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor

Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new,.

Beautiful facilities.

In Coram, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always

been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving

and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or

call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org,

hcbible .org.

Call

609 -494 -5689, 609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends, Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the Church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thriving Financial is not your typical financial services provider.

As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere Institute,

a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best practices

in business ethics.

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant,

at 717 -254 -6433.

Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the Thrivent difference.

...a new faith, finances,

and generosity.

That's the Thrivent story.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible

of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please never forget folks that solid -ground -books .com is a vital, a

primary, a premier sponsor of this program.

We would likely not continue to exist, barring a miracle from God,

without the financial support of solid -ground -books .com.

So please, while there's still time, do a lot of your Christmas shopping that

you have not yet done at solid -ground -books .com.

And please always remember that you shouldn't just purchase good, solid,

biblically -based Christian books for your brothers and sisters in Christ, although that's important and that's a

wonderful thing.

You should also be purchasing books for your lost friends and loved ones and prayerfully give them to

these folks that our Sovereign Lord will use a book from solid -ground -books

.com to lead these lost folks that you love to Christ and be saved for eternity.

So please go to solid -ground -books .com frequently and purchase generously and always mention

that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And before we return to our guest today, Dr. Michael A .G. Hagen on his book, Strangers and

Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020, we

just have a couple of important announcements to make.

This Monday, the 21st of

December, the Monday before Christmas, we are going to have a first -time event here on this program.

In all the years that I have hosted this program, even though I have interviewed both Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and our mutual friend, Pastor Bill Shishko

of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, Long Island, New York, known as The Haven.

I've interviewed them both many times, but for the first time ever on Monday,

December 21st, they are both going to be filling in for me as co

-hosts and as guest hosts of this program.

I will not be on the program.

It will be hosted, as I said, by Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and Pastor Bill Shishko

of The Haven Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, Long Island, New York.

So please mark your calendar to listen to that.

I can't wait to hear what they have to say myself, and I hope that you are blessed, and I'm

absolutely certain that you will be.

And folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm urging you, I'm pleading

with you, go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to

donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that, and if you prefer snail mail,

mailing your things in the old -fashioned way, on address, a physical address will appear on the screen when you click

support at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can mail checks made payable to Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

And if you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe,

we would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we are in desperate need

of your advertising dollars as well.

You don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what I believe.

So please, if you are interested in the possibility of advertising your ministry, your

church, your business, your professional practice, whether you're a lawyer, a doctor,

a special event, that you are orchestrating that you want to promote, whatever it is, please send me an

email to chrisironsinitgmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And also folks, I want you to remember I don't want people siphoning money

away from their regular giving that they're accustomed to, to their own local church where they are a member in

order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

In other words, don't punish your own church financially by blessing Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Please don't do that.

And if you are really struggling to survive and make ends meet, you have bills mounting up that you cannot

pay and you are in real financial peril, please don't

give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and give your family more stress and

more of a burden as a result.

Those two things are commands of God providing financially for your church and your family.

Providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially

blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands and you love this show and you

listen to it regularly and you share the free downloadable MP3s with family, friends, and loved ones,

and you love winning books and Bibles and DVDs and other things that we give away to

those who send in questions to the program, well, please, if you are blessed financially enough to help us,

please help us.

We are in urgent need, especially during this coronavirus pandemic hysteria that has hurt many people

financially in our audience and who are unable to give as they once did or they're unable to advertise as

they once did.

So we subsequently are hurting really bad and we need your help.

Please go to ironsharpendesignradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and

you're not even looking for one, please let me lovingly correct you that that is not

acting in obedience to Christ.

There is no such thing as a maverick or lone wolf Christian in the New Testament who is not a

member of a local church, who is not under the oversight and care of local

undershepherds.

So please help me rectify that situation for you.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet earth and I have helped many people in our audience in all parts

of the globe find churches sometimes that were just minutes away from their home that they didn't even know

existed or at least they didn't know that they were biblically faithful.

So if you are in that category or you have a loved one who is or if you're going on vacation somewhere and you wanna find a good church,

send me an email to chrisarnsend at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsend at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That is also the email address where you could send in a question to Dr. Michael Haken on our theme today,

strangers and pilgrims on the earth, remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020

as chrisarnsend at gmail .com.

And Dr. Haken, you likely remember that we got an email from Eric in

Mahomet or Mahomet, I'm not sure how they pronounce that in Illinois.

But he says, I have a relative who is a descendant of the strangers, the non -pilgrims aboard

the Mayflower.

What do we know about the interaction between the strangers and the pilgrims?

Were there any conversations or I'm sorry, were there any conversions to Christ through the pilgrims gospel

witness?

Yes,

some

of

the

community

that

is

now.

Well, thank you, Eric.

And please make sure we have your full mailing address in Mahomet or Mahomet, Illinois or Illinois.

And we will have cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, one of the sponsors of this

program, mail this book out to you that we have been discussing today, strangers

and pilgrims on earth.

And we want to thank cvbbs .com for always shipping out our listeners

who win books and Bibles and other things.

Shipping these products out to our listeners at no charge to our listeners or to you

or to us, I should say.

And I also want to thank again H &E Publishers for

generously providing these books.

And don't forget about their website, hesedandemet .com, H -E -S -E -D -A -N -D

-H -E -M -E -T .com.

And we have a listener in Alabama who has a question.

We have Ted in Moundville, Alabama who says, how would Dr. Hagen

categorize the chief difference, chief differences between the pilgrims and

the Puritans who did not emigrate to America?

I'm wondering not only theological differences, but also the social, sociological, and

perhaps even psychological characteristics that distinguished those Puritans who made the

trip across the Atlantic.

Dr.

Hagen

Wow,

that's

the

Atlantic,

1630s, and running through to about 65,

disastrous

weather, interfering with the crew,

hardiness.

I've read a number of books over the last few years on those emigrations.

And what just strikes you is just the significant courage of these men and women

about the

American

character can be explained.

That's why the founding of Plymouth and then Purit,

part of the American story, character

and courage and hardiness of these individuals, much

larger.

In England,

who we know

as pure

Atlantic, they're essentially giving up.

He comes to Boston in the 1630s, and he'll eventually go back.

He comes to the New World and would go back,

venture out into the, has characterized American culture down through the

centuries.

David.

Well, thank you, Ted.

And please make sure we have your full mailing address in Moundsville,

Alabama, because you have just won a free copy of Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth by our guest

today, Dr. Michael Hagen.

And keep your eye out in the mail for a package from cvbbs .com because they are the ones

shipping it out to you.

Cvbbs .com.

And we thank H &E Publishers once again for providing us with these books that we've been given away.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania,

who said, was not Pocahontas a Native American who lived amongst the

pilgrims and did she not intermarry with one of them?

I guess this is coming from the earlier question about, or actually I brought it up about intermarriage.

Dr. Hagen Yeah, no, she's further south.

She's in Virginia.

David.

Thank you, Susan Margaret.

You've also won Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth.

So make sure we have your full mailing address in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

So cvbbs .com can ship that out to you.

We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania, who says, I have friends

who are Seventh -day Baptists.

And when I did some research on this rarely heard denomination, I have come

to learn that some of their congregations are the oldest active congregations in

the United States.

Are the Seventh -day Baptists a group that sprang out of the pilgrims?

And were there any among the pilgrims?

Dr. Hagen No. Seventh -day Baptists would be,

again, out

of

being

raised.

That

would

not

be

Calvinistic.

Believers baptism, the day of worship, the

earliest...

David.

I guess that's where the Seventh -day Adventists later got it from.

Dr. Hagen

Their commonality

find, like I'm thinking here of, say, Joseph Stennett.

It was the son of Edward Stennett, he'd worship with on Saturday.

And then Sunday would be free to go around and preach for Calvinistic Baptist churches.

David.

Well, I heard the same thing about Samuel Stennett, who had a very strong friendship with

John Gill, the great 18th century Baptist preacher in England and great

theologian and commentary writer.

And I heard that they did pulpit exchanges with each other.

Dr. Hagen Yep.

David.

Him writer too.

In fact, Samuel Stennett was one of the preachers at John Gill's funeral.

David.

And his funeral message is actually available from Chapel Library in a booklet form.

Dr. Hagen Yep.

David We have Christopher in Western Suffolk

County, Long Island, New York, who says, I have even heard a very strange thing

from leftists here in America about the pilgrims.

Believe it or not, that allegedly they were cannibals.

Have you ever heard this?

And where on earth did this slanderous rumor come from?

Dr. Hagen.

Yeah.

Well, what about the commonly held accusation and blame that is

hurled against European settlers in the

North American continent that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Native

Americans because of the spread of disease?

Is that true?

David Yeah, some of that is true.

And

it

was

on

witty,

ravaged

Europe.

Dr. Hagen.

You could hardly blame any human for that kind of a thing when it was unintentional.

David.

No, no, no, not at all.

By the way, I just happened to Google pilgrims or cannibals, and there

are quite a number of sites that come up.

So this listener was not pulling that out of thin air or inventing that.

Dr. Hagen No,

why we do history and why it's important.

David.

Now, before we move on to the Puritan movement in the reigns of Elizabeth and James I, I

just want to make sure that you include in our discussion anything further that you want

to say of importance about strangers and pilgrims on the earth,

remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.

And I'm really interested about the 2020 part.

I guess you mean that the remembrance is going on until today, but

if you could.

Dr. Hagen We have, as I said,

there's

about

20

articles

in

context in

our

day

that we remember not only the men, but in

addition.

David.

No, my pleasure.

I could have you on many more days to discuss this book.

And when we come back from our final break, which will be much more brief than the others, we'll

begin a conversation on the Puritan movement in the reigns of Elizabeth and James I.

And if you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

We'll be right back.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

That's linbrookbaptist .org.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at the Toronto Baptist Seminary, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jeff Downs of Knox Reform Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Mark Rimaldi of Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Scott Pasolo of the Master's Church of Bucks County, Pennsylvania,

and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Kevin Vigneau of the Bible Church of Port Washington, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church in St. Augustine, Florida, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Clint Leiter of Highway M Chapel, Sedalia, Missouri, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future, volunteer, donate, pray, or all of

the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333, that's 631 -385

-8333, or visit liyfc

.org, that's liyfc .org.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the

air, like the Historical Bible Society.

The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of

historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of

scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the Bible's reliability,

and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States,

reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the Bible.

HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection

along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.

Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org.

The collection includes a complete 11th century Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from

1455, the first book ever printed, the Geneva Bible, the 1611

King James Bible, and much, much more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org today.

Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and

always.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Welcome back, and Dr. Michael Haken, you wanted to make sure that we switched gears, at

least for a part of our discussion, and include the Puritan movement in the reigns of Elizabeth and James I.

So if you could, why is this an important matter we should discuss?

Well,

I

think

it's

because

the

increasingly

public but other

Western

democracy,

Fukuyama, the end of history, and that

Western democracy had won.

So the heart of

democracy is

in

retreat.

Authoritarian, educated, emulated,

is being presented as a model in

democracy in very challenging times.

And I'm not a political

peak into this world, but one of the ways is to remind me, read

me, as I say,

it's not window dressing, it's

at the heart

of men

and

women who...

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, why

did the Puritans so harshly persecute the Quakers?

And can we actually consider Quakers a

legitimate Christian group?

It is tragic to see how today, the main denomination of Religious Society of Friends

has actually become full -blown in support of homosexuality.

And although I know that there are evangelical offshoots of that group, should we view

historically the Quakers as bonafide Christians?

Um, yes, I think so.

There's no kid that

would be off...

Was the listener correct in saying that the Puritans harshly persecuted them?

Yes.

Yeah, I've even heard that the Baptists, on occasion, were drowned in a mock baptism.

Is that true?

Not, as far as I know,

paranoia that grips Massachusetts and maybe parts of Connecticut as well.

It's an irony, and it's a sad irony, that these men and women who came for religious liberty...

Well, we are out of time, and I could speak for hours and hours with you, brother, and I'm looking forward to your return to the

program in the future, God willing, in the near future.

I want to make sure our listeners have this website again for H &E Publishing.

It's hesedandemmett .com, H -E -S -E -D -A -N -D -H -E -M

-E -T .com, and you can purchase all of the books published by Hesed and

Emmett from cvbbs .com, who actually sponsored this program, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

cvbbs .com.

If they don't have what you're looking for in stock, they will order it from Hesed and Emmett.

I want to thank you so much, Dr. Hagen, for being such an extraordinary guest, as always.

If you could hang on the line, because I do want to schedule you for another interview.

Okay.

I want to thank everybody who listened.

Don't forget about Monday's program, being hosted by James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Bill

Shishko of the Haven Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, New York, who are filling in as

hosts of the program.

I want you all to have a blessed and safe and joyful and healthy and happy weekend,

and Christ -honoring Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.