Discussed the False Teaching of Harold Camping then Calls

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Travel Plans, Blogging, and the Cost of Responding to Critics

That's how he planned it that I come in right at that great Drum riff there, you know, actually we didn't plan it that way. It just in fact when was run to the battle done that was done a long long long long time ago.

So we couldn't have planned it that way, but I I still like that song. Welcome to the dividing line. It's a Monday and if you're here, it's because you know why we're here. So I don't really need to explain it to you anyways, but we're here because tomorrow I won't be heading to st. Louis to speak at the founders conference there and Looking forward to meeting folks.

We've got it. We've got folks and this this part is the weird. This is really odd. We have folks from a church here in the valley who left today to drive to st Louis to hear me speak, but they've never come to my church.

Yeah.

Think about that one for a second. Mm-hmm, you know. You look out across the the vast expanse of the Worship Center of the Phoenix Foreign Baptist Church week ago this Lord's Day when I was preaching both services and if we had one or two visitors, you know, that was that was good and.

Yet, I know folks it'll drive for seven hours to go hear me speak when I travel. What is it about Phoenix? I don't that I Don't get it. It's it's odd. But hey, you know what? Always have a good time. Talking about the sufficiency of Scripture.

How do you just cram it all into into three sessions is the is the question I have.

But.

We will be doing that and then week from this Thursday heading for the United Kingdom and We we will we're gonna do our best we're gonna be on I think a week later Right as I'm getting ready to leave and that means I should have the best accent I could possibly have that Thursday I mean I will have heard I will have been in England for for a full week and we should be ready to go and I'll bring that back with me and all the complaints can stop and end and and it'll be great and genuine and authentic and All that stuff and everybody's going.

Yeah, right. Sure. Hey, I mentioned on the blog and by the way, I have not Forgotten there are a couple series on the blog. It's Some like the current what I'm doing on Islam. You can do very easily in pieces you can do with with you know.

You've got half an hour you go ahead and you you you put together an entry, you know right now going through the Bentley stuff decided by Saiful and Oz me and I can do a textual variant fairly quickly.

Thank You Carla. Dr. Oh, your accent is horrible. Thank you very much. But you know, this isn't a star search or what's that thing American Idol or whatever? I can do those very quickly some of these series is that you just can't do that.

You can't Just take half an hour out and and write one little section you have to write an entire portion that would be multiple blog entries and that frequently takes a pretty big chunk of time and so it's It's you know, some of them have fallen by the wayside, but I've got a stack of books next to me in a stack of printouts I've got stuff on particular redemption and I also have been informed by multiple ways.

You know when someone make sure that you get informed a number of different times that they have Responded to you in some fashion on the internet. They probably are there they're the folks that are really trying to you know, get a Some blog entries for themselves type of situation and it's starting to get to the point where I have to look at it And I really have to ask the question Where is the cost-benefit here?

Where's the line? The benefit to the people of God to see error Refuted and truth exonerated over against false accusations against it that's one thing and then the the that's the benefit part the cost being Giving any type of publicity to certain people, you know where do you draw the line and.

So.

You know, I've been informed that an associate of Robertson Janice has responded to a section on justification. Well. Congratulations. I mean it's not like some Janice doesn't have a book on justification out and I don't have a book on justification out and you can compare the two and and.

You know examine the the argumentation there.

But.

There's a I think it's about six seven pages and I just happened to be looking at I printed I was gonna take it with me see if there's anything new and It's sort of like the JP holding stuff. The older I get the less and I won't even use term enjoyable.

It's never been enjoyable. But the less I guess the phraseology the less stomach I have. For dealing with people that are just simply they like being nasty. They just like Spitting, you know, they they just they like to roll in the mud and they like to try to poke you in the eye and and Hey, I just don't think that that is how the issue of The gospel should be handled.

In fact, I was listening. I was listening to somebody else I won't mention any names here, but I was listening to somebody that would be considered primarily I quote-unquote on my side talking about a controversial subject recently and I just I I flinched numerous times at the terminology that This individual would use it was it wasn't it wasn't necessary it you could have said you could have Communicated the exact same stuff in the exact same way with the I think an even greater level of clarity without the the nasty part in essence and So, I don't know maybe I'm It as you get older, don't you aren't you supposed to get you know like that more Than the other way around that's not it's not working for me.

And anyway You look at some of this stuff and I was reading this this thing from one of some Genesis. And they don't have many of them left these days. I mean, they're pretty small little group and they're off on their own, but.

And that's another reason I mean if these people represent this really odd View that all the Roman Catholic apologists are saying hey, they don't they're not with us anymore. They're off on their own and all the rest of stuff.

If you respond to them the the mainline Roman Catholic apologists say well that's irrelevant because those people are off in the woods on on these issues and so Yeah, you just go. Well, you you go. Could I say enough that is positive here?

Could I do something here? That's gonna it's gonna help people to see a certain aspect of the truth and maybe communicate it to their their loved ones their neighbors their friends that they're seeking to share with if so, then Go ahead and take your lumps and do what you need to do.

And if not, then you just you just go on from there knowing inevitably that if you if you choose if you say that someone's response is not Worthy of a response itself if you just simply and this is something I've had to learn a lot recently you have to trust That good people are gonna be able to do good reading.

You just you can't force everybody to hear the truth. You just can't do it. Life is life is too short and and and you just you can't do it. If you make that decision that person is gonna crow. They're gonna they're gonna go.

I got you. I refuted you and You know, we've we've had a guy he's banned now, but we had a guy came in channel. He didn't last in process Paul Gann very long. We kicked him over to apologetics and he was there I don't know maybe for a week and Eventually, I just got sick and tired and everybody else did of the same old same old never hear a word.

You said hey Pete's in channel. Hi Pete. Never hear a word. You said just absolutely bloodying your forehead on the wall. Just just no communication here. Just the same Repeated blah blah blah blah stuff and so I I've banned him and in fact, he keeps sneaking in.

He snuck in again last night and I've set it up now. So I will I will see him when he comes in and he's gonna go. Bye. Bye real fast. But um, you know, eventually you just you just go Enough enough already there's just no reason to go back over the same ground over and over and over and over again if you're not gonna listen and You just have to trust that eventually, you know, and he was one of those folks.

He goes, I see. You know, if you all aren't coming over here to talk to me, it means I've refuted you. Haha, you know, this is like Oh, just give it up. So anyway, we'll I'm gonna be getting a lot a lot of time over the next three months to have nothing to do but Stare at a book or a piece of paper at 33 or 37 thousand feet or whatever.

It is. I've got let's see 24 plus And 50 60 hours easily. Well more than 60 not think about in an aircraft. So, you know, we'll we'll get plenty of time to decide Which sections look at and all the rest that stuff I did.

However on the blog mentioned I Made a mistake. I've Where was I doing? It was raining. That's not too unusual these days in Phoenix and.

I.

Was driving. Why was I driving the direction? I don't remember now, but oh, that's right. I was going down to a Certain gas station and I don't know why I did it but I hit Family radio. I haven't listened to fit.

I guess the reason I had been listening to family radio a little bit over the summer Was on the way down to church on Wednesday nights. It was on. On while I was driving and now that the time has changed.

It's not on while I'm driving down to church on Wednesday nights. So I haven't heard in a long time.

And.

There's Harold camping and Every time you turn the guy on these days. It's the same thing. Every time he's talking about the same thing. It's the church is dead. No one gets saved in the church. The Holy Spirit's ban the church.

You gotta leave the church that of that I mean talk about cult leader. I mean this guy's got well at least Joseph Smith as I understand. It was at least a passionate speaker. If not the most intelligent speaker on the planet.

Harold camping does not have the passion thing going at all and So let you know you listen to these calls and Some of them are trying to argue with him and you can't argue with Harold on his own program.

He just turns you down. He'll just as soon as you get. What however much he feels comfortable with he's gonna turn you down and he's gonna drone on and then say but thank you for calling. And sharing can we take our next caller, please?

And that's it. You can't that's not debate. You can't do hardly anything there at all. But worse than the people calling in trying to argue with him. Are the people who call in who have become? Sadly mind-numbed robots.

I mean these folks. There's no discernment here at all. It's just so sad anything. He says even if it's just so and we're gonna hear that. Outrageously ridiculous. It's like well Harold said it so it must be true man, it did that is just so sad, especially you realize these people used to be in The churches of many the people who are listening right now this program.

You wonder where some of those folks have gone, you know to think back over the past, you know five years and you all sudden. You realize hmm. Wonder where that guy went. Yeah, he's in fact I as I was for some reason I don't know if it was the server what it was when I was trying to get this clip I had to listen to the entire hour before it came on and There was a guy actually that not a thing about us listening this after this call, but there is a guy who talked about how After this teaching came out and he came to see that the Bible taught that the church age has ended.

He would go into churches with tracks. Specifically seeking to warn people to get out of that church I mean folks these are these folks are have made themselves enemies. Their enemies the church their enemies the gospel, it's so sad to see this stuff and so I was listening to this one and well, I'm gonna play this clip and we're gonna respond to it and Just listen to this caller it is just it's sad first of all.

But then listen to the responses offered by camping. They are absolutely positively Incredible listen to this.

Good evening, welcome to open forum. Yes, brother camping. I have a question for you. Yeah, I can't really hear you but coming out the gospel is.

Yes, that's right.

We deny ourselves and and make ourselves available to share the love of God with others. That is and God defines this in Isaiah 58.

Now let me just pause it there because I at first it took me a while to catch this. Because I hadn't I had no idea this was his position. I Had never heard him address the issue before. But fasting isn't fasting.

Fasting is is not denying yourself food. Fasting for herald camping is witnessing. Don't ask me. I you know, I. At first it I was like what what is he babbling about? I you know, did I miss something while passing that last car or something?

I what is this and.

Then he goes to well listen, right? I guess my question is that I Totally understand that I guess I'm trying to understand that in the light of Matthew 16 verses 16 through 18.

Matthew 16 verses 16 to 18 which isn't the right. And Simon Peter answered Thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God. Is that the verse. And you know, I'm sorry. Matthew 6. Oh Matthew 6. Oh, yeah.

Verse 16 or 18. Okay. Moreover when he fast be not as the hypocrites of a sad countenance. For they disfigured their faces that they may appear unto men to pass. Verily I say unto you they have their reward.

In other words now, it's God. Christ so far is talking about physical Fasting where people are bragging to each other about how they how they Went through the pain of not having food and and look how Bad I look and so on as a result of that.

In other words for me Look how I suffer and on behalf of Christ. It's a kind of that kind of an idea. But it says when thou fastest Anoint thy head and wash thy face. Now. What does he say that? To be anointed and to have her face washed is a language of Salvation.

Make sure that you are Anointed with the Holy Spirit that your that your sins have been washed away. That's the first requirement for Fasting. And what is the fasting. That thou appear not unto men to fast but unto thy father?

Which is in secret. In other words, it is God who sees us. As we as we he is the one who has saved us and prepared us to send forth the gospel.

I'm going to stop right there. I Just finished going through this section in Sunday school and the context is so clear. The the whole point is not that you don't fast. There's nothing in the text that that.

The transitions from the one meaning to the next meaning. What he's talking about is not doing your religious deeds fasting or prayers or giving or any of that? for the purpose of receiving Man's approbation you are to do it with only one, you know.

It's it's a little bit like Steve Camp's ministry name audience one an audience of one. You do what you do for an audience of one and that's God. That's your first and foremost concern. You don't the rest of stuff isn't the issue and It's just so clear and I I guess I suppose if I suffered through listening to this frequently enough Maybe there's there are people who regularly call in say that's not what it's saying.

But again, you can't do that with Harold. Most these people is just like hmm. Oh, okay I've never never thought of it that way. There's a reason you never thought.

It's.

Like when you listen to Joseph Smith talking about what the Bible allegedly said there was a reason nobody came up with that before. There's a reason why when LeGrand Richards the one of the Apostles of Mormon Church quotes Isaiah 29 for It talks about is one speaking law the dust with a familiar spirit and he says that's the Book of Mormon.

No, it's not. That's a demonic spirit. Look it up man. Yeah. Reason why nobody thought of these things is because it's wrong as a matter of fact.

You remember that other passage work where they said to him? Well, why why don't your disciples fast and and then Jesus said how can they fast when the bridegroom is still with them? But when the pride bridegroom has left them, then they will fast.

And what was he talking about? Well, the fact is that the time to send the gospel out into the world by the local congregations. That that gospel explosion that would begin with Pentecost in AD 33 Had not arrived yet until Christ the bridegroom had gone back to heaven and then then they began to pass.

That is then they began to send out the gospel in earnest.

Alright, so there you get this utterly Explanation as to Fasting okay. No connection to the text but hey if if you if you've never heard of Harold camping before I wrote a little book called dangerous airwaves and The one thing you will you will never find with Harold camping is sound exegesis because he doesn't know how to do it he's in the numerology and all this weird wacky stuff and and It's it's way out in left field.

So you get this weird thing now. I don't know if the guy who's called up is friend or foe, but I discover in the next few seconds in the next minute. He's friend he's a follower next 45 seconds. He's gonna explain something to camping.

That shows a he's he has accepted without even the slightest bit of discernment what camping has said about fastings. Oh. But then what he says here and listen and that this is the main thing. Listen to what camping says About Christ Church, and I know he's saying Oz's isn't really Christ Church anymore and the Holy Spirit's left the church and all the rest of stuff.

He's talking about your church. He's talking about your your elders your pastors your deacons your fellowship. He's talking about you here. Keep this in mind.

When you listen to what this man has to say, okay. Thank you. Um, I actually have another question for you. Yeah. In my walk With the Lord. I've learned that I should be removing myself from the church as a worshiper now up until both worked in the church as a sound engineer and I have worshipped in the church and Now that I'm come down that I know that I'm commanded to come out of the church.

I wonder where my position lies as far as Having a job at the church I know that you said that it's a dangerous place to be in but I guess I was looking for a little bit of your.

Why why would you want to be a contributor to a situation? That is ruled over by Satan and work or God is not working to save anyone. Why would you want to make be making an assist there? That that doesn't fall follow at all.

You know that you have to come out and and you can't give any assistance there anymore. I would I Don't know why you would want to do that to help perpetuate.

Something that you have learned your I've some reason cut off there. I learned yourself as false. I Ruled over by Satan the Holy Spirit said that no salvation in the church and I've heard all this before I.

You know, I put together an entire presentation on this presented a number of years ago In at Grace Foreign Baptist Church in in Merrick, Long Island. He said he's been saying this For a number of years now and as most of you probably know.

And if if you're not up to speed on this Let me just make sure you catch up.

I.

Even predicted this. Everybody predict this. I'm not special of this but I Predicted many others predicted. That what camping would do is once he came out and maybe he had already decided to do this before I you know.

Who knows. But it's the it's the way false prophets of false teachers work. When he came out with this church ages ended stuff I said what he's gonna do is he's gonna go back and he's going to rescue his 1994 stuff and he's gonna rework it and He's gonna he's gonna fit it in to this new teaching and that's what he's done.

What he's does. He's gone back and say oh, see I wasn't wrong about 1994. We just didn't have enough light yet To understand that. What was going on in 1994 was the end of the church age see and the entrance into tribulation and We didn't see the connection here and now he's come up with a new date.

For the end of the tribulation which is 2011. Now don't ask me how you get 18 years between 1994 and 2011. 17 17 18 years depending. I counted but The you know I haven't bothered to even invest the brain cells it takes.

Yeah, six plus six plus six that makes sense. That's good. That's you're starting to think like oh, you're starting to think like Harold. That's a bad thing. Get some sleep immediately and and seek medical attention.

But.

Now it's 2011 and of course he's hedged this bet big time. You know you've been through this before you know you've done the the false profit thing before and you eventually learn and maybe 2011 is far enough out that Harold ain't gonna be around to have to answer for it one way or the other but.

That's that's what you've got got going on there, so he's he's putting all the dates together. And you know I'm sure he's gonna have if he hangs around till.

2011 then in.

2012 he's gonna be making the same excuses. He was making in 1995.

And.

But you're still gonna have people who in 2010 and 2011 are selling their houses and they're gonna be showing up at your churches and With their little tracks. And Right in front of us there it is folks.

You know we we sometimes reads read books, but how the Jehovah's Witnesses acted in 1913 or in 1925 or especially the most recent one in the early 70s. And We it's sort of history for for most people even though I remember the 70s one.

And Here it's happening right in front of us and This guy this guy runs sound at a church somewhere and most of Harold Camping's people are not coming out of What we would call our minion evangelical churches.

When I did that pastor's conference on Harold Camping's new teaching back in January of whatever that was as least three or four years ago now I think almost every single pastor in the audience was from a Reformed Church of some sort.

And so these people as we get closer to 2011 are only going to become more emboldened by this whacked out teaching and So when you see someone Passing out anything from family radio. I don't care if they're ignorant of it that maybe they have a bunch of old stuff from back before 1994 or something.

Doesn't matter if you see someone putting out any Family radio stuff any kind of camping stuff. Do not hesitate do not sit there and be a postmodernist and go well. You know I don't want to offend anyone here if you're not offended by these statements want to be a.

Contributor to a situation that is ruled over by Satan and work or God is not working to save anyone.

That's what he's saying about your church. Your children aren't getting saved. Your friends aren't getting saved. The Holy Spirit's gone your worship is empty. It's dead. It's not pleasing to God. The truth of God is no longer there.

If you're not offended by that then you're dead. You have no love for the church. Hello earth to everybody. This man should offend you he offends me and So who should you be more concerned about. Offending this person walking in with the family radio stuff or The offense to God and to the Church of Christ that he represents.

So when you see somebody coming in you see him in a Bible study. See a lot of them. They're sneaky. They don't they don't just come blowing through the back door. You're all you need to flee the church.

You know there are a few of them like that.

These folks are sneaky.

They go to the Bible studies and They get to know people and then they start they can tell who the disaffected people are. They can see the people who are maybe just on the edge, you know, and those are people they're going after those the people that they're gonna slip this information to those the people they're gonna try to help them in their discontent and.

So when you see these people you go to the elders immediately. And if your elders Don't understand it get them some of the some of campings information play some of this stuff for him. You only only have to listen about one night to get plenty of stuff his stuffs on the web.

You can grab it and play it for them. So if they have some idea What on earth this man is saying and Shut it down. Let me tell you something a camping night walks into the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

We're gonna a talk to him and be when as soon as they start arguing about it. The statement will be the doors over there. Don't let it hit you on the way out. You protect the sheep. You say wow, you take that rather seriously.

Yeah, I do I I talked to those pastors that conference and it was heartbreaking this guy's on a staff someplace. This guy's they're gonna show up one morning and the pastor's gonna be sitting the back trying to put the sound system together.

Because he's not there anymore. We saw churches deeply impacted and damaged by this stuff. You know, we'll get passionate about all sorts of stuff, you know. We'll get passionate about the Phoenix Suns being 45 and 14 and we'll get passionate.

When I was back in North Carolina my daughter and I had to drive to a certain place about three or four times in one day we kept passing the Seventh-day Adventist Church and There is a Saturday so it was their day and they were having a Prophecy conference the people were there for like 12 stinking hours.

And my daughter kept going. Oh, man, every time we drive by she's just like, oh that must be torture. 12 hours at a prophecy conference. Yeeh. People get passionate about all sorts of stuff. Why why not get passionate?

About the church that Christ gave his life for how about being passionate about that? You know, I mean if someone walked up to you and insulted your wife. The way that herald camping insults the church you'd punch him in the nose and rightfully so.

But because it's a theological issue. Somehow we can't be passionate about that. Give me a break. Speaking of breaks. 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. Hey, if you're a camping I out I will. I don't care if we are listening to a next a clip.

I'll break in. If you think you can defend this this absurdity. Call in but I'm gonna tell you something right up front. I'm gonna hold you the Word of God. We'll be right back after this.

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WindowBlinds, Chat Banter, and the Show's Return

Man, every time I make some noise, what was that? What was that sound that there you just made there on the webcast? All right, so I have window blinds, okay, and it's really neat program, especially when your Windows installation is is like fresh and There they've come up with some awesome skins for Windows.

Now if you're stuck with Windows XP in that that same old same old look I don't know how you do it. I could not stare at the same thing all the time. Every day it just it it wouldn't work. So I have this program called window blinds and they've come up with some awesome skins recently a skin is a all my windows everything, you know look completely different see and They have sounds and so for example when I minimize a window that's what it sounds like and so I forgot about that and so I minimized a window and that's what you all heard was a window going bye-bye and The volume was still up and that's that's what that that was and So I'm used if anyone cares.

I'm using the gt3 skin. It is really really sharp I mean this stuff is really cool and see I've got a double monitor set up here and So what's really nice about it is it's it's a dark. It's a very dark skin and the backgrounds are dark and stuff much easier on the eyes if you have a bunch of white.

You know bright white windows open on a two monitor setup. This is my blind you and So it's really it's really cool. Do it again. Why in the world would you want to hear? That again, that doesn't that doesn't that doesn't make any sense.

I just it's it's close but not quite. It's more of a the the Star Trek sound was more of a you know thing with the doors. We can come up with that too. I assume we could we could do that. It doesn't make any sound when you open a window, but anyway, I I Don't look like we have any camping.

I it's calling in because Scott from Canada One of our regulars and channel who's a little bit like E Nielsen I don't know if he wears plaid or not, but he's a little bit like E Nielsen so he he frequently just sort of zooms in with a with a cool Statement then zooms back out again and and hides in a corner someplace.

Anyway, he he he asked a sort of rhetorical question if I was seriously thinking that we had any camping night listeners. How could they survive the excitement? It's true I mean I modulate my voice Significantly more often than than Harold does and speak at about 14 times.

The rate of speed that he does and so it would be very difficult for a camping. I'd to listen. I'm sorry, but I.

Think we need to get some your clips. And then play them for camping nights and see if they can understand. Tell the difference of who's speaking.

Thanks, Richie. You're gonna get the emails on this. I don't. Send them to me. Don't send them to me. Send those to Chris. Send those to Chris. Because Chris did a song once about camping nights. I saw it and it was absolutely hilarious and I'm gonna have to ask him to To record that one again because it's only gotten worse since since he did it.