Bad Counseling Strategies (Part 2)

No Compromise Radio

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

00:08

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

00:16

Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour ,� so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

00:24

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

00:30

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the

00:37

Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

00:46

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. Steve, we�ve been doing this for eight years. Can you imagine that? Is that true? Eight years.

00:52

It seems like 20. It does. It seems like 20 going on 30, but we�re glad you are listening.

01:00

I even got a text the other day or a Twitter response, you know, trying to download the show. Where�s the latest show?

01:06

Can�t live without it. And so that�s the way life should be. Can�t live without it. I don�t know.

01:12

Whoever you are, that�s just sad. I�m sorry. I think he lived in Kansas or something. He needs counseling.

01:17

Something like that. He does a lot of counseling. Steve and I just recorded a show, and we took, you know, literally a one -minute break, and I just looked down at my

01:26

Twitter account, and I just saw that Pastor Punisher started following me. I said to Steve, �I�m scared.�

01:33

I�ve got Pastor Batman following me. Oh, really? No. I�m just like, just imagine all the fun

01:40

Twitter accounts. I�m Pastor Superman. I�m Pastor, you know, whatever. Pastor Iron Man.

01:47

What do you think of these accounts that are anonymous? You know, is there any legitimacy for these anonymous accounts?

01:53

You know, I just, I know people who have fake accounts, and I can�t really, you know, totally �

02:00

I think it all depends on how you look at it. I think some people think, �Well, that�s like lying ,� and I�m like, �Well, or it could just be they just want to have fun ,� you know, so I�m �

02:12

Well, since we, you know, are having some Twitter friends, and we know identities of some real people, maybe we�re going to have an outing.

02:21

Not an outing like to the Seventh -day Adventist Church to see what they do on Shabbat, but we�re going to tell people�s real names.

02:28

Like Joel, not Joel. Not Chuck Finney. They are so smoked.

02:37

Now, last time, we, Steve and I, were talking about counseling, bad counseling advice, what to do when someone calls you or meets with you, they�re your

02:48

Christian friend or child or spouse or something like that, and you need to give biblical advice.

02:55

You are able to admonish one another, as Romans 15 talks about, and you know, you don�t need to immediately send them off to the pros, to the

03:03

Gnostics, to the dispensers of snake oil.

03:13

Well, sorry, but that�s what, you know, people are like, �I want to see a psychologist. I want to see a psychiatrist.�

03:18

That�s what they are. They�re dispensers of snake oil. I don�t know what to tell you. I�ve been studying Hebrews, as everyone knows, and it says in chapter 4, verse 12, for the

03:31

Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two -edged sword, and of course, that would lend us to make sure we talk about who

03:38

God is in the Bible, but it says piercing to the division of soul and spirit, and some people use that with 1

03:45

Thessalonians 5 .23 to say that people are tripartite, you know, trichotomous, body, soul, and spirit, versus having a body and then something immaterial, you know, soul slash spirit.

03:58

And it is typically the psychologist, the Christian who�s been influenced by psychology, to say body, go to a doctor, spirit, you know, you go to the

04:08

Lord, the mediator, or hear about him through a pastor, and then soul, that�s the psychologist.

04:15

The souquet. That�s right. I was reading Voss the other day, and Gerhardus Voss said, you know, does any person alive think to themselves, oh, you know,

04:25

I think I have a body and a soul and a spirit, versus I have a body, and then there�s something invisible, something immaterial, something where God breathed into Adam, right, this dual soul -spirit.

04:40

And I�d like to know why some people believe in soul sleep, but they don�t believe in spirit sleep. That�s a good question.

04:47

I think we could start a new religion. We are building a religion. It�s a ponderous thought there.

04:54

Yeah, I know. Something that you could probably spend a whole show waxing eloquent. Yeah. But anyway, what the writer is saying is with great scrutinization,

05:05

God�s Word can examine things that can�t even really be separated, joints and marrow, soul and spirit.

05:11

The old MRI. So, last time we talked, Steve, about giving people hope, and the way you would give people hope is by reading off your credentials and your education and showing them your plaques and such, right?

05:24

That�s what I do. That�s what I do. Well, you have no room for books in your office. I�ve been wanting to talk to you about that.

05:30

They�re just plaques and such. Well, you know, they�re mostly diplomacy plaques.

05:35

I was going to say, but I thought you would have gotten mad and we would have needed counseling to repair our relationship.

05:42

Do you think I have to overlook more of your mistakes or do you have to overlook more of my mistakes, sins, transgressions?

05:50

I don�t even want to go there. Because things are fine between us, but we might as well start something.

05:55

It�s ruckus time. You want to be starting something. I mean, you�re more out in the public.

06:04

People know you, you know, more and whatnot. So I wouldn�t say

06:10

I have to overlook things. I think probably, you know, maybe you take more flak and more shots and whatnot, so.

06:18

All right. Well, that�s because the pastor punisher is after me. And we also talked a lot about telling people who

06:28

God is, reminding them that He�s in control in Romans chapter 8, not just 28, but 31 and 35 and 39.

06:36

We talked about that some. And in this part two of kind of counseling stuff, should you and shouldn�t you when it comes to dealing with folks, empathy, sympathy, we talked about.

06:51

All right. Now that all leads us up to this. Steve, someone comes to you and they�ve fallen into some sin, they�re ensnared in a sin,

06:59

Galatians 6. They did something really, not just stupid or foolish, but very sinful.

07:05

What�s a bad way to respond to that? And then what�s a good way? And I�m thinking, to let you know, I�m thinking about gospel stuff because we are too sinful.

07:15

Well, the bad way to respond is, okay, thank you for telling me that,

07:20

I�m now going to C -clamp you. You know? That would be bad. I�ve come up with Hino and forget you, but Steve has

07:28

C -clamping to the gizmoid, or gizroid. Sorry, gizmoid was a pinball parlor in Omaha.

07:37

You don�t want Steve to C -clamp either your gizmoid or your gizroid. Yeah, that�s cop talk.

07:44

But yeah, I mean, here�s what you don�t do. You don�t go, well, that was sure stupid.

07:50

I mean, sometimes if it�s me and you, and we�re just talking, and I look at you and go, okay, all right,

07:56

Mike, you know I love you, but that was dumb. Okay, that�s one thing. But it�s another thing to just have somebody come to you, and they�re hurt, and they�re in repentance mode, right?

08:07

In other words, they know they�ve blown it. And they come to you, and you just go, well, that was sure stupid. Here, let me just kick you a little bit while you�re on the ground.

08:14

Yeah, I think they already know it�s stupid. Exactly. So that�s not the right way to go, and I know this is where we�re going.

08:23

I just did this a couple weeks ago. I�m meeting with somebody, and I�m just like, I listen to what they�re telling me, and my response is the gospel.

08:33

You know, in other words, I�ll say, well, here�s the good news, and I give them the good news, because I want them to say what?

08:42

You know, when I say, well, the good news is Jesus died for sinners just like us, you know, and I say,

08:50

He bore the punishment that I deserve, that you deserve on the cross.

08:57

And if you believe in Him, if you trust in Him, and you�re trusting in His life,

09:03

His death, His resurrection, then you�re already forgiven for these things, but we still need to work through the ramifications of them.

09:11

Right. And I think even as you were talking with the volume and your demeanor and how you were trying to talk kindly to people, that really helps, and especially when we�re talking about, listen, friend, you are here confessing this,

09:30

I appreciate you doing that, but I just want you to know the line for sinners in this church is really long, and you�re pretty much towards the back of the line, and I�m in the front, and I�m not shocked,

09:43

I�m not surprised, I�m not, you know, I�m just� I�m not offended, right? Yeah, because you know what, really, okay, 1

09:52

Timothy and Titus talk about qualifications for elder, and neither one of those lists does it say sinless and perfect and, you know, strong in their own strength.

10:05

I am very much sinful, and if you knew the things that I had done, the only thing that would keep our relationship together would be

10:12

Jesus is the Savior of sinners, and so that�s what I�m thinking. And I want you to know that when we�re done with this, and I see you on Sunday, I�m not going to think, ah, that�s the guy that did the stupid thing.

10:22

Or can you imagine coming to�because I actually had this happen early in my adult life. I went to somebody and confessed something, and here was the response.

10:30

How could you? Right? Gotcha. Yeah, that is not going to help.

10:39

It's not pointing people to Christ. It's not giving them hope.

10:44

It's not empathizing. It's not sympathizing. It's not helpful in any kind of way. I think a show like this is helpful for me to think about, and hopefully for you listeners as well, because when people do come to you and tell you that they've done something against you or against somebody else or against themselves or something, against the

11:02

Lord ultimately, it could be our natural reaction, our self -righteous reaction to kind of say that or think that.

11:11

But to know ahead of time, all right, how do I minister to them, and how would Jesus minister to them, and how does

11:17

Jesus minister to those? Well, we could ask them and answer the question. How did

11:22

Jesus minister to people who were self -righteous and thought that they didn't need any of Christ's righteousness?

11:29

Well, He whacked them. How did Jesus deal with people who knew they were sinful and knew that they had no righteousness?

11:36

He was very kind. That's right. And the hardest thing to deal with, and I'm sure you'd agree with this, the hardest thing to deal with is people who think they know the solution to their problem, and they're just way,

11:52

I mean, they're just completely anti -biblical. I mean, not just unbiblical in their thinking, but they actually go against what the

12:00

Bible says, and that's when I'm like, are you sure you believe the gospel? Let's kind of review that, you know?

12:08

That's so true. Do you think there's anything to be said, Steve, for when you get yourself into trouble, and then you say to yourself, hmm, all right,

12:19

I think I should probably, you know, I need to find someone who's spiritual, Galatians 6, who can help restore me, but I'm going to pick somebody who

12:26

I don't really think I would originally pick because I think they're going to give me advice I don't want to hear, but it will be biblical.

12:33

That might be a good strategy. It's a great strategy, and, you know, what you don't want to do, like, you know,

12:41

I don't know, let's say you have a problem with getting drunk, you know, you don't go to your buddy at the bar and go, hey, you know what,

12:47

I really blew it last night, I got drunk, because he really is going to be kind of indifferent to that.

12:53

No, that's okay. Have another drink. We want people who are going to kind of grab us by the stack and swivel, you know, just kind of, what are you doing, man?

13:07

You know, turn yourself around. You've sinned. You know, we want Nathan to get in our face, as it were.

13:16

We want somebody who's going to correct us, reprove us, but also help us.

13:25

Steve, as I studied Hebrews 4, Jesus, the great high priest, who has been tempted in all things, but has no sin, therefore

13:34

He can be a sympathetic high priest, and we can go to Him with troubles and trials, and He understands what it's like.

13:40

Here's what people were trying to do. They're trying to argue that, you know what, unless Jesus actually got tempted and then fell into the sin of, you know,

13:51

I don't even want to say anything, because I don't want to despair Jesus in any way, but whatever that blank is, then they can really relate to Jesus, because Jesus really got tempted and then sinned, and then

14:03

He's more relatable. You know, it's like the pastor who falls into sexual sin. The congregation restores him because, hey, don't we all do that?

14:12

Well, one of these writers that I was reading this week, he said, listen, the one that really has the most sympathy and empathy and who could help you the most is the one who was tempted and didn't fall.

14:25

And then they related Galatians 6. You go to the spiritual ones when you're having a hard time and you're struggling with sin.

14:32

You don't go to people who have the same struggles that you do and are still in the process of repentance and restoration down at the bar.

14:40

Yeah. I mean, I'm a sinner, and, you know, but there are some sins that I've not committed by the grace of God.

14:52

Does that mean that I can't relate? You know, here's something, it has never occurred to me, honestly, as long as I've lived, it has never occurred to me to get high.

15:01

I just, I have no desire to do drugs. When I was in high school, my friends were, like, experimenting with different drugs, whether it was peyote or whatever it was, and they would say, hey, you want,

15:10

I'm just like, I was always, I think, afraid, you know, of that and not really wanting to get involved in it.

15:20

But I have a lifetime of being around people who have abused drugs, and I see how it wrecks their lives.

15:27

So can I have empathy and sympathy for people? Yes. I don't look at somebody who's struggling with that kind of situation and go, you're so stupid.

15:36

How could you, you know, do that? I just think, oh, man, that, it's hard.

15:42

And I know what it does to people's lives. I've dealt with, I remember once talking to a guy who was in his 70s and still addicted to heroin.

15:53

And I'm like, that's pretty remarkable to have lived this long. And he's just like, well, you know,

15:58

I just know what I'm doing. And I'm like, okay, you know. Well, he probably thinks in his own insidious way, you know, most people die at 35 as heroin addicts because they, you know,

16:11

OOD, and I'm not doing that. So I'm smarter than the average doper. I beat the system.

16:18

Steve, how about when it comes to helping other people? Let's talk about that difficult subject, helping someone from the opposite sex.

16:27

I didn't say from opposite sexes. I said opposite sex. It just happened the other day.

16:35

You've got, you know, two people working together in legislation and they spend a lot of time together.

16:42

And then the mayor runs off with the AG or whatever, you know, the particulars are. I don't know. I think it was security guard.

16:48

Yeah. And that happens too. And you just think, okay, two people, they spend a lot of time together. And the counseling setting, discipleship setting, whatever you want to talk, however you want to claim it with nomenclature of your own, sitting talking about these deep issues, spiritual issues, frankly and openly and honestly, it, you know, these are sometimes talks that only a husband and wife should have that would help their intimacy.

17:17

And then now the intimate details talked about between a man and a woman in a counseling setting. No wonder it goes awry so often.

17:25

What kind of a barrier should we have with these things? Well, it is difficult.

17:31

And you know, one of the barriers is you don't want to meet with somebody from the opposite sex alone. Right? I mean, that's just kind of basic.

17:41

But I think it is difficult, especially, let's just say, in abusive marital situations and things like that, it's difficult not to identify with the people in there and not to form some kind of bond.

17:59

And so there really has to be that there's going to be empathy and sympathy and compassion, but you kind of have to draw a line too.

18:09

When I first got here 21 years ago, I didn't meet with ladies alone. There was always a secretary or another staff person in the building and I had always my door open.

18:20

And that's when I would meet. But I don't even do that now. It's, you know, if I need to meet with a lady,

18:27

I'll bring him in or I'll bring you in or somebody else. I don't even need to, you know,

18:33

I just don't want to do it anymore. But Steve, I was thinking when, I mean, contrary to popular belief on No Compromise Radio, I do occasionally have a compassionate, you know, empathetic, sympathetic hospital bedside.

18:49

And so I'm sitting here, it would happen to be in your office, you know, with the door open to the secretary.

18:55

And then you've got a lady in your office crying about something that's cry worthy. And so what would

19:01

I want to do? I tell you what I want to do when the lady's crying and I'm there and I'm trying to be sympathetic and empathetic,

19:07

I want to give her a hug and say, it's going to be okay. You know, like a father to a daughter or something, but you can't do it.

19:14

Why? What do you do? I just think I offered them some Kleenex or something, you know, stop your bubbling.

19:21

Want some water? Yeah. Yeah. And it just doesn't work out that way. So I like to have typically from Titus 2, ladies can help ladies, men can help men, that we don't have to do all this, you know, there doesn't need to be any kind of, oh,

19:35

I feel close to the pastor now because do you know what? My husband doesn't talk that way. My husband doesn't pray.

19:41

My husband doesn't point me to Christ. My husband doesn't read the Bible. My husband doesn't want to talk and share and communicate.

19:47

And before you know it, watch out. It's true. It's true. And I mean, it's just human nature, right?

19:57

To find attachment in people that are giving us what we need, you know, that sympathy, that empathy, that emotional bonding.

20:13

So, yeah, and I think we have to really guard against that. Not that we don't...it's just easier to kind of point them in the right direction, talk to them about the big issues, and then, you know, with the women, find ladies at the church who can disciple them and help them to deal with whatever issues they need to deal with.

20:35

That's right. Mike Gabendroth here with Steve Cooley, The Tuesday Guy. Your Twitter handle is what? At The Tuesday Guy?

20:41

At The Tuesday Guy, yes. And have you sued the guy in Pennsylvania who goes by The Wednesday Guy yet?

20:48

No, I haven't, but I've retained, you know, legal representation. We're looking at it.

20:54

Yeah. Well, what do you do if somebody comes to you for counseling and they said, well, I'm getting bullied?

21:00

What do you do? I'm getting bullied by The Wednesday Guy. Acquit ye like men.

21:08

Well, you know, I don't know what, you know, bullying means. I mean, bullying can be sinful, right?

21:13

I mean, certainly if that's...you know, but sometimes people just kind of make it up.

21:19

But I'd listen. I always listen, you know, especially if it's younger kids, you know.

21:26

In fact, it really has been a burden on me lately because I just think when we grew up, right, when you went home, you were alone.

21:33

There was nobody to bug you, you know, you didn't have to worry about bullying. But now because, you know, parents often give their kids smartphones and access to the

21:42

Internet and all that, that bullying can go on 24 -7, text messages, Facebook posts, all these kind of social media that I don't even know about, you know, and they just get barraged with it.

21:54

And I'm like, to me, it depresses me just thinking about the kids who are given too much freedom.

22:01

They're given more adult status than they're ready for. Their parents just turn them over. Steve, as you were talking, it reminded me, there are so many new platforms for social media.

22:11

I can't keep up with them. I have no idea. Right, right. I'm old school. I basically

22:16

Twitter, you know, I do Hootsuite that posts to Twitter and to the No Compromise Facebook page.

22:23

But in terms of, you know, accounts and all that stuff, I don't have them in Instagram and Snapchat and everything else.

22:28

I said to my daughter the other day, I said, I think I have your old passwords for this, that, and the other, but just so I have an updated list,

22:38

I need all your account names and passwords for all your social media, just so I have them and, you know, if I want to check here or there.

22:45

There's Snapchat and Smackchat. I want to be part of the pastor -punisher

22:52

Smackchat. You can't handle my smack.

22:58

Most of the pastor -punishers that I know in my life are myself. I punish my own self, sadly, self -inflicted.

23:05

You know, it just occurred to me, maybe he's out to, say, pastor -punisher. I just wonder if he's out to punish pastors.

23:12

That's what I mean. He's after me. He's following me. I should have blocked him. See, I thought he was like pastor and then his last name was punisher or something like that.

23:19

No, no, he's out to get them, I think. Oh. But I think he's got quite a few followers after our show today.

23:24

That sounds dangerous. I don't know if I, I would, I don't think I'd follow that guy.

23:30

He might show up at my house. Is his first name Frank? Steve, in the old days, if someone would come in and they'd confess, you know, whatever, pornography or something,

23:41

I think probably if I think about law gospel paradigm, I probably went after them with the law for 55 minutes and then

23:49

I tried to remind them of the gracious gospel for the last five. And these days,

23:54

I don't know if it's switched around completely because of course, I still think you use the law, but it's a lot more talk to a real

24:03

Christian, a lot more talk about who the Lord is and how He forgives and how

24:10

He knows and how you can't unadopt yourself. Well, that there's, you know,

24:17

I think the other thing for really repentant people is they get this idea in their head that there's some sin they could have committed that is just so bad, you know,

24:26

I mean, and that's the right mindset, right? I mean, if you're in true repentance mode, if you really recognize the gap that exists between you and the

24:36

Holy God, that's when you're face down on the, you know, on the ground, really in repentance mode, then that's when you're open to, you know, hearing the truth and the gospel and need to be encouraged by it.

24:51

Steve, when you went outside the other day at your home and fell on the ice and slid all the way down the driveway, were you face down or was that...

24:58

It was on my back. No, I, yeah, all I heard was the snapping of bones. But the good news is you're grown in grace and you didn't swear.

25:08

My first thought was, you know, am I going to be stuck here? That was my first thought. Mike Abenroth, Steve Cooley, No Compromise Radio.

25:16

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abenroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

25:22

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

25:32

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

25:39

You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.