Don Lemon Shut Down, A Promising Young Evangelical, & Mohler Goes Christian Nationalist

Conversations That Matter

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:11

Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast, I'm your host John Harris. To open the program today, we are going to watch a clip from Don Lemon on CNN interacting with Hilary Fordwich.

00:24

This is a point that's been made on this program before and I think it was articulated in a way Don Lemon was not expecting from a guest on his particular show.

00:35

Check this out. Well this is coming when you know there's all of this wealth and you hear about it comes as England is facing rising cost of living, a living crisis, austerity budget cuts and so on.

00:46

And then you have those who are asking for reparations for colonialism and they're wondering you know $100 billion, $24 billion here and there, $500 million there.

00:58

Some people want to be paid back and members of the public are wondering why are we suffering when you know you have all of this vast wealth.

01:05

Those are legitimate concerns. Well I think you're right about reparations in terms of if people want it though what they need to do is you always need to go back to the beginning of a supply chain.

01:15

Where was the beginning of the supply chain? That was in Africa and when that crossed the entire world when the slavery was taking place.

01:22

Which was the first nation in the world that abolished slavery? The first nation in the world to abolish it.

01:28

It was started by William Wilberforce, was the British. In Great Britain they abolished slavery. 2 ,000 naval men died on the high seas trying to stop slavery.

01:39

Why? Because the African kings were rounding up their own people. They had them on cages waiting in the beaches.

01:45

No one was running into Africa to get them. And I think you're totally right. If reparations need to be paid we need to go right back to the beginning of that supply chain and say who was rounding up their own people and having them handcuffed in cages.

01:57

Absolutely that's where they should start. And maybe I don't know the descendants of those families where they died in the high seas trying to stop the slavery that those families should receive something too

02:07

I think at the same time. It's an interesting discussion Hilary. Thank you very much

02:13

I appreciate it. We'll continue to discuss in the future. The context of the segment you just watched was a discussion about the royal family between Don Lemon and Hilary Fordwich who is paid

02:25

I guess to watch these things and to explain to news organizations the propriety of various ceremonies and she has knowledge about the royal family.

02:34

So she's there helping Don Lemon navigate this topic and Don Lemon it seems at least has an idea come to his head about reparations and should the royal family pay reparations.

02:46

And Hilary Fordwich I think did a great job. She made two basic points here that are very important.

02:52

One is that there is some complexity involved in this because social justice advocates like to paint with a very broad brush and so they would blame someone who benefited in their minds generations downstream from slavery let's say as much as they would or at least they would see that person as complicit just as they would someone who came from Europe to Africa with a slave ship in order to purchase slaves as if there's complicity all around.

03:24

I think some would probably even say there's equal complicity perhaps. There's a tendency within ideology to flatten everything and so it erases this nuance and Hilary Fordwich first makes the point that you can't actually flatten everything like that because look you had the

03:42

Royal Navy at a point in the history of the United Kingdom go out and actually round up slavers and impound slave ships.

03:53

So do you punish those people who are involved in that? And so I think this is actually a good point that could be articulated on other issues and even on that particular issue in other ways.

04:06

I know I've articulated that. I've said look there's a difference. You have to make some distinction between those in the

04:11

United States who inherited slaves and those who were on slave merchant ships going to the

04:20

Ivory Coast and purchasing slaves. There is a difference between these two things and that distinction was certainly present at the time slavery existed in the

04:29

United States, chattel slavery. We still have it. We still have slavery but in various forms but we don't think of it that way.

04:37

So we have rising civil slavery. We have the welfare state which in some ways functions like a slave system.

04:44

We have the this whole immigration debacle, illegal migration and that is the really the creation of a slave class especially when there's cartels involved.

04:55

We have sweatshop labor that goes into many of the products we purchase. I don't know we could probably go on but we don't think of those things as slavery but and of course the legal slavery that happens sex slavery which also is connected with the border issue but back when chattel slavery was more normalized these distinctions were more likely to be made.

05:18

Nowadays they're not made at all. You just look back and everyone was equally complicit. Everyone was guilty.

05:24

What a horrible time and isn't it awful that white people are still around because they're benefiting from this white privilege which is part of that.

05:32

They weren't there in Africa capturing slaves but because they're white they must benefit from that in some way.

05:41

So she makes a great point at first and it's very concrete so it puts

05:46

Don Lemon in an awkward spot. Are you going to then punish people who were not complicit in taking slaves but in returning slaves or in ending the slave trade?

05:59

And then she does a second thing. There's two points she makes. So the second point is that and this is actually

06:04

I think the more important point perhaps is that if we're going to use equal weights and measures which is a

06:10

Christian concept God is without partiality in this way then we are going to have to apply if we want to apply this standard we're going to have to apply it to those at the beginning of the supply chain.

06:20

Wouldn't they be the most complicit in this kind of arrangement because they're the ones in Africa they're the ones who are the originators of this particular trade.

06:34

I mean look it existed within the continent of Africa before Europeans ever arrived.

06:39

When they arrived they took advantage of this but slavery had already been going on and the

06:46

Muslims certainly were involved even before the Europeans got there, the Middle Eastern Muslims.

06:52

So she's making the point where do you want to trace this? If we're going to go back to the beginning the people who actually were involved in the tribal warfare, the incentivizing, the capturing of slaves then you're going to have to also punish those in Africa and that's not something that social justice advocates want to talk about because in their scheme those people can't be guilty.

07:17

Those people in Africa that guilt must be minimized somehow if there is any.

07:24

It's got to be the fault of Europeans specifically Christian Europeans and so I think what she does is she puts

07:31

Don Lemon in a very awkward spot and he doesn't have a lot of time in a new segment to really even embrace or engage rather these arguments that she's brought up but they're helpful and so just stick that in your back pocket when you hear that argument again.

07:46

Two things to remember one hey it's more complicated than you think give a concrete example and then two well what if we applied the equal standard that you want to or the standard that you're advocating equally and you can do this on other issues too it doesn't have to be that particular one you can do this on a lot of other social justice kind of type issues.

08:07

Should we believe men who claim that they've been abused right I mean if we're gonna believe women why not men so you can do this on other issues but I wanted you to see that and maybe be encouraged by it a little bit.

08:18

I also wanted to let you know about this William Wolfe is a rising star in the theological and political conservative movement in evangelicalism it's called

08:27

Christian nationalism by the mainstream press but that movement he is a young face that was part of the

08:34

Trump administration I believe he was deputy secretary for the Pentagon he now is a student at Southern Seminary and also an intern at the seminary but he does he has done a lot of writing for places like Freedom Center and American Reformer and he's done some speaking and podcasts as well and he gave a speech recently at the

08:59

National Conservative Convention or conference rather in Miami that just happened about a week ago and it was interesting because a number of people were speaking there including

09:11

Al Mohler which I'll have some thoughts on at the end of this podcast but William Wolfe I thought did a great job he had a 15 -minute segment where he well

09:21

I'll show you I'll show you what he said let's just play it and hopefully this will bring you some encouragement just because I know many of you out there are discouraged and I don't think it's without cause many of you are feeling like I do sometimes and wondering how come there are serious

09:39

Christians at least I know of serious Christians in pews across this country but so few of them seem to make their way to the levels of authority in institutions and William Wolfe is one of these guys that seems to have some fight in him some also institutional credibility he's had previous management experience like I said in the

10:05

Trump administration and he's energized with a message of political conservatism and biblical orthodoxy at the same time and we haven't seen this a young energized voice advocating these things

10:20

I think often we don't see it often and we haven't really seen this kind of energy for a while so let me play this for you at least some of it it's 15 minutes we'll see how far we get and hopefully this is an encouragement

10:33

I'm here today in defense of common sense

10:38

I don't think I'm particularly brilliant or novel and I certainly don't intend to be

10:44

I hope to be a herald of sort of ancient wisdom that was often more caught than even taught in this country though it certainly was taught as well and in a world in a moment turned upside down and gone mad with the woke mind virus common sense can indeed sound crazy as GK Chesterton said we shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and to make four in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three -sided figure and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that the grass is green well that world has come to pass and if you doubt that I would refer you to my

11:25

Twitter mentions and the maddening truth that I'm here to represent is this is that American Christians should wholeheartedly support an

11:36

America first governing agenda platform and policy proposals in fact we shouldn't just support it

11:46

American Christians should demand that from our government and this isn't driven by racism this isn't driven by xenophobia this isn't driven by fascism or whatever new ism the left will come up with and sling at us like mud for Christians this is driven by love love for our national neighbor citizens our flesh and blood

12:09

American neighbors with whom we share this country this land this people this history this heritage and this future

12:20

I continue to have moments of radicalization throughout my life the first one is probably when my firstborn son arrived and as I've added two more sons to the wolfpack

12:31

I've just become increasingly radical because I've got I've got three white male boys so I'm probably on an

12:36

FBI watch list and I care about the country that they grow up in and I care that the government that they live under puts their interests first the great

12:50

English Baptist pastor and theologian Andrew Fuller who Charles Spurgeon said was the greatest theologian of his century delivered an incredible sermon in defense of love of his nation a primary love of putting it first it was in 1803 when the

13:05

British feared an imminent invasion from Napoleon we'd probably all better off if I just read the sermon but let me share a portion with it now it's entitled

13:14

Christian patriotism I highly recommend that you read it Baptists actually do have good contributions on this subject

13:20

Fuller preaches a sermon out of Jeremiah 29 7 where the Lord commands the Israelites who are in exile captives in Babylon to seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which

13:31

I've carried you into exile pray to the Lord for it because if it prospers you too will prosper

13:40

Fuller writes I do not suppose that the case of these people corresponds exactly with ours but the difference is of such a nature as to heighten our obligations they were in a foreign land a land where there is nothing to excite their attachments but everything to provoke their dislike now if such was the duty of men in their circumstances can there be any doubt with respect to ours ought we not to seek the good of our native land the land of our father's graves a land where we are protected by mild and wholesome laws administered under a paternal prince a land where civil and religious freedom are enjoyed in a higher degree than in any other country in Europe a land where God has been known for many centuries as a refuge a land where there are greater opportunities for propagating the gospel both at home and abroad than in any other nation under heaven now this was in the early 1800s so Fuller hadn't seen what

14:42

America became so I'd argue that's America now but the answer to his rhetorical questions is yes we should seek the good of our land he rallied his fellow countrymen his

14:53

Christian countrymen to be willing to take up arms and fight the French and I don't mean David but I don't also not mean

14:59

David if need be but if we listen to the leading and loud voices in the

15:05

Christian world today they would have us beat our ballot boxes into plowshares and retreat from the public square just recently a major Presbyterian pastor literally said worldly power is anathema and of course in Southern Baptist land we've been repeatedly harangued by leading voices telling us that we must content ourselves to a silo of prophetic witness where we stand outside the halls of power and we shout truth into these global elites ruining our nation and hoping somehow it pricks their conscience but we don't roll up our sleeves and get our hands dirty and take control of things for the sake of the good of our citizens so we should reject that and so my two very brief points here is essentially this that a

15:44

Christian case for America first government one rejects national Gnosticism it rejects national

15:51

Gnosticism and embraces order loves in order to help our nation flourish so first reject national

16:00

Gnosticism what do I mean well too many Christians continue to fall prey to this most ancient of Christian heresies you know various forms of Gnosticism I don't have time to go into all the depths of Gnosticism and what it means but essentially it's this idea that the material yeah we don't really have time to get into all that either today but I wanted to bring this to you and it we're probably a third of the way through it and he goes on he develops these points but have you heard a pastor or a

16:29

Christian leader of any kind articulate what William Wolfe was articulating here this is what

16:35

I'm asking because I think what he's saying is absolutely correct when it comes to the prevailing voice at least in the evangelical industry we hear this notion that Christians ought to we just heard it from Christianity today actually that Christians ought not get involved with a school board because they should be discipling their families as if that's a false dichotomy as if there's not a third option you can do both that Christians need to be peacemakers they can't view they have to somehow navigate these two contradictory political parties by forming a third way to approach politics the politics of Jesus and that means that we transcend these categories and we're not concerned with worldly power he's absolutely right that's what we hear that we shouldn't be focused on power or politics and wouldn't it be great if Christians were the ones who actually were involved with making laws and implementing laws because they're the ones that know the lawgiver they're the ones that know

17:48

Jesus Christ who laid down the law for so what he's saying should be kind of a big duh of course of course

17:59

Christians should care about their country they should care enough about it that they're not afraid of getting their hands a little dirty and that would include voting but more than that maybe that would include depending on your situation getting involved on the local level or maybe that would include writing or maybe that would include um i don't know it could be bigger it could be running for a bigger office than the local level it could be organizing just people in your vicinity for to understand to educate them about the our country and biblical principles when it comes to government i mean there's so many things sky's the limit but we're not being encouraged in those ways we're instead we're being discouraged from that and if there's any political encouragement it's for Christians to get on board with social justice type stuff and so William Wolfe is i think a breath of fresh air here in that he's someone that is coming from he doesn't represent southern seminary i'm not saying that but he he is someone who is surviving in an institution and he's writing for emerging

19:10

Christian conservative organizations and he's making a positive case here so just be encouraged there are people out there who feel very similar to the way you feel about everything that's going on in our country and they want to put a stop to it they want to be more aggressive about this they want to proclaim that Christ is

19:31

Lord and they want to follow his law they want to love their country he talks later in this particular message about the concepts of subsidiarity and how the ordering our affections the way

19:46

Augustine talks about or rightly ordered affections is means prioritizing in some way your people he says your nation but your people your people within your proximity i've made this point many times on this podcast before and ultimately that seems that concept seems to get people in trouble on the right because it the left hears that and they they the way what they're hearing is you are in league with racists the people who would think of their race as more important or better superior than other races or you must be in league maybe you're someone who thinks your family superior and and i mean i don't hear this one as much but it seems like all these different archaic uh barbaric things now people think of them that way but are archaic notions of family honor so you have dueling you have feuds right like that's barbaric you shouldn't have that uh the divine right of kings arranged marriages all these different social things that used to exist slave labor that all these things are remnants of a barbaric past and they're horrible and anyone who would invoke loving one's neighbor and defining neighbor as someone more proximate so loving those who are close to you loving those who are in your family loving those who are in your nation seeking to protect those things that you've invested in that would be that that in their minds they're associating with all the things i just mentioned and and so william wolf is he he knows he's treading into this area i think i mean he's coming from the political world into the theological world and he knows how high the stakes are and that's something that i've come to realize kind of through the opposite coming from more of the theological world and going into the political world now is or i don't know if i want to say i'm in the political world but i've i've certainly put my toe in and i've uh putting out content online and putting out content in books has opened me up to criticisms that would not be present in an insular bubble let's say in a theological world so so i'm aware of that to some extent i'm sure william wolf is more aware but he's coming from this world this rough and tumble world where uh you get smeared and pigeonholed right away by the left if you advocate for for this kind of love and yet he's doing it anyway so he's taking a risk here and he's absolutely right in framing it the way he frames it that this isn't about hating anyone this isn't about uh because that's how the left hears it the left when they when they hear you talk about loving your own they think of it as you must hate everyone else and and that's not what he's saying he's saying i'm loving my own and by the way when you love your own it makes sense why others might love their own he actually um references this at the end he quotes actually it's funny enough if you if you watch the whole thing he quotes doug wilson and uh it's a it's an analogy wilson makes which i didn't realize wilson had done this because i've made this analogy too and probably others have because it's a good one but uh someone in a hallmark store store getting a card for you know world's best mom or something like that and then someone else is there and they're getting a card that says world's best mom and do they get into a fistfight over it well no because they both understand that if if i think my mom's the best and you then it makes me i can understand why you might think your mom's the best because of that relationship and that's it's the same thing applies to other proximate relationships relationship to nation relationship to community relationship to family and that's what william wolf is talking about here this is a love thing it doesn't mean you have to go hate someone else in the hallmark store because they're saying their mom is the best when you think your mom is you don't hate that person in fact you probably empathize or sympathize with them more because of that so you can go watch the whole thing if you want it's that national conservatism's youtube channel william wolf a christian case for america first government and i want to say this too about al moeller so i'm gonna go to the uh if i can find it uh there's a lot of speeches on this particular let's see here if i go down i can find it al moeller's speech there it is was just put out and i listened to this whole thing this morning it was a really good speech and this is the interesting thing a few observations about albert moeller here albert moeller is a really good speaker when he wants to be he when he's off script and he's asked a hard question oftentimes it's a word salad he actually writes in a lot of word salads you can't make heads or tails about what he's saying but he is a he's good at the art of speech making good analogies good well -timed jokes good uh stories he's got that baptist kind folksy preacher thing going with the stories i was realizing because the speech he gives is very similar to a speech that i've given before in fact someone texted me and that's one of the reasons i watched it or i mean not to find out about whether or not this accusation was correct the accusation being that he plagiarized me but i i watched it just to because i was curious i'm like this must be a good speech if someone thinks that al moeller is taking information from me and i don't think he was i i mean who knows maybe he's familiar with what some of the things i've done but i don't think that's why i don't think he would do that um he and there's no evidence of actual plagiarism or anything so but what he said sounded so similar to things that i've said let me give you an example if you go to and it's not just me a number of people i think have made this observation but the person who texted me was more familiar with with uh my work on this but he he goes to i'll just play you this you're kind of riding on the the wake of strong theological arguments you are living off the capital of the old and the new testament of israel in the christian church and that witness we see the great alternative before us the post -christian religion of the woke demonstrating again the amago day demonstrating the fact we will worship something we will we will be religious that religion is going to work its way out and by the way predictably as others have noted throughout time in very religious form the new woke religion has its own liturgy it has its own doctrines it has its own catechesis it has its own cathedrals it has its own doctrine of sin its own promise of salvation it has its own notion of sanctification it has its own written canon of scriptures and slogans it has its own crusading flags and choirs it has its own inquisition and holy office it has its cherished dogma and it enjoys the right of excommunication now this is an observation that i think i first made in 2017 i put a blog out there and i and i called it uh the gospel of racial reconciliation and i started making all these parallels and i'm like this is a religion this is and i didn't know about critical race theory really at the time but i was pointing out a lot of the things that al moeller's talking about and this has been more developed in in the book uh christianity and social justice religions and conflict which by the way is on sale today the sale ends today 11 50 for a signed copy so go go to the link in the info section you can find out more about that but uh this is something that other people i i came up with that on independently but other people have uh made the same observation and it's a very good observation and so i started wondering what why is al moeller making this observation so i watched the speech and it's really good he goes after social justice he talks about he doesn't proclaim himself in this particular speech to be a christian nationalist but he he's at national conservatism that that's the conference he's at and he makes the case that christians a little bit similar to what william wolf was saying actually not quite as aggressive as william wolf and what but but he makes the case that christians do need to be involved and they need to uh see a place for christianity in in society they need to loving your country is a good thing and all these social justice advocates are in the wrong now here's the interesting thing to me if you watch this great speech i think it is good he there's a stopping point for al moeller i mean i think he maybe he criticizes richard i don't even know if he criticizes him actually he just cites an observation from richard taylor i think the person he criticizes the most recently is like gramsci it's he has to go to like the 1930s and he doesn't want to get it seems like on the social justice issue he doesn't want to go too far beyond that it seems or he just doesn't i don't know why he doesn't i have a theory though that might make sense of it but he what he doesn't do the weakness is this because his presentation does not take into account modern thinkers who are pushing the left instead it's this academic treatment of really people who are dead from the past who aren't here to defend themselves you avoid some landmines by doing that because if you're criticizing marx and hegel and foucault and gramsci and i mean who's gonna come and get super offended someone on the left might but you're not gonna have people at your institution coming at you and getting really offended by that but if you start going after kimberly uh williams crenshaw williams crenshaw uh if you start going after kendy if you start let's let's get a little more if you start going after tisby you start going after i don't know someone at your own seminary like jarvis williams if you start talking about people who are still alive who are the actual ones that are pushing this stuff right now then you're gonna get in trouble more there's just no doubt about it that i know that firsthand so i'm not saying that is his motive that might i have a theory about that but it it certainly does he he is able to avoid some of those awkward situations especially when it it comes to the the point that people at his own seminary including himself in the past that's the funny part are have pushed the needle in the social justice direction and now he's on a stage saying it's this religion we must reject and get back to christianity and a a national uh the concept he's talking about is kind of what's developing as a as termed christian nationalism so it it's unusual but i wanted to commend it because credit where credit is due doesn't mean that i'm oh john you're so naive you're now trusting i'm not saying i trust al moeller at all he's either he might just be a really really good politician i've described him as an opportunist before at least that's what makes sense of his actions more than anything but i mean this is a guy that can get on a zoom call with nam and talk about every institution in america being systemically racist somehow two years ago to now i mean he gets in a different room where it's national conservatives and he sounds i mean you just want to play the national anthem in the background as he talks it's just it's amazing to me so he may just be a really good politician but i'm hopeful here that maybe because of the way things are going if he is an opportunist maybe that's a sign that that things are going in a a little bit of a better direction and he wants to get out in front of it and so that should encourage you i think as well even if you don't out there uh it's you you want everyone to be speaking in these terms i mean look if jd greer or matt chandler or even tim keller or you know if some of these guys started speaking this way it's not like i'd give them a pass and be like oh well you know we can all trust you now or you know here i guess you've you've left those those woke kind of notions behind i wouldn't say that at all but i would be approving of it so it's like i wouldn't you know want the guy to take on more power or influence necessarily but hey if he's gonna have influence and if that's what he's saying good you know paul said if even if the gospel this isn't the gospel here but if the gospel was preached from so the truth of the gospel from ill motives then hey at least the so i think we can have that that view of it so i here's what i also did i looked up i just wanted to know on the briefing when has albert moeller talked about christian nationalism because i'm like is he a christian nationalist now like what is he where is he at and this was interesting to me because it shows i think the pivot here's what al moeller said about christian nationalism in january of 2021 and just remember what was happening in january of 2021 here's al moeller says this and it exudes a certain level of caution about christian nationalism here it is what we are seeing is an effort to try to dismiss or to marginalize american evangelical christianity by identifying it as some form of christian nationalism that's a very loaded term we need to unload it understand it take it apart we need to recognize where the critique is appropriate we also need to recognize where there is an effort to try to silence public christianity in the united states and as christians biblically minded christians theologically serious christians we understand that there is a lot of bad theology out there and when it shows up we need to recognize it so this is after the january 6th situation which as i remember i talked about it on this podcast al moeller somewhat misrepresented and just the lack of proportion to me was staggering at the time he went after it hard what happened that day and of course was not he did not say the same things as harshly and as quickly as he did about some of the blm type shenanigans the summer before so i remember that distinctly in my head and this is one of the briefing episodes after that happened well he says this that we do need to recognize where there's bad theology we do need to to see these things and uh and there's somewhat of a i think a lot of what he says is absolutely true there but i but you can tell that there's a bit of a hesitancy about that that this we need to look look into this term more and uh and the critique is appropriate so to some extent that there there is theology that's not good out there and we we do need to admit this and so so that's what he says at that time check out what he said recently this past summer on his thinking in public podcast here's the clip nationalism has been given a bad name i mean even conservatives who who once would have identified themselves clearly as nationalists they're now running scared from the term and we have the left routinely speaking of me and of others as as christian nationalists as if we're supposed to be running from that and uh you know uh i'm not about to run from that uh i'm i'm not about to join their one world order so obviously there's a difference here a year and a half downstream from january 6th with al moeller not only embracing the term but without making the qualifications he said were necessary a year and a half before i know because i at least he hasn't on the briefing because i searched the archives there uh he's willing to just kind of kind of use that term and and he's speaking at the national conservative meeting or conference and giving a message that would be very in line with this developing movement i think the dust hasn't settled so i don't know where it's all going but he's definitely part of the development of it or wants to be and uh is this good or bad i think some of you are probably very skeptical i just want to say though that overall i think i'm encouraged by this kind of thing everything we've talked about on the podcast today it's it's a it's a white pill wednesday as they say i want to give you some really encouraging things for the middle of your week here that there are people out there like william wolf who see what you're seeing and they want to do something about it and you're not the only one out there trying to make a difference there are others and i hope you don't feel that way and i hope you you are trying to make a difference though even if in your mind it's small whatever god's given you that's the lane you need to run in and it's important it's a matter of obedience to your creator he's he's injected this world with the meaning and transcendence and the just the motivation for a daily life is there as soon as you get up and open your eyes in the morning because he is the creator and he has put you in a place the place he wants you to be in and you have tasks to do you have missions to fulfill that is life and sometimes those missions are you just need to get up and make a meal for your family and maybe homeschool your kids or drive them to school or make sure that the errands are done and those things i know can be mundane but those are part of the mission your creator's given you the problem has come in i think when there are moral dilemmas and situations that we need to address and confront and then we don't do it because we're scared we're we think it'll hurt us we're afraid of what's going to happen and i would just encourage you that don't let that happen when the time comes when the lord is giving you an opportunity to be a daniel be a daniel and there are others out there who want to take a stand who are disappointed just like i am and like many of you are with evangelical institutions with local churches even and i don't know the cdc the government and hollywood all of it they're just they see failure in in every elite institution out there and they're doing what they can and we're going to see in the in fact i was just reading andrew torba's book on christian nationalism which is interesting i might talk about it on this podcast but beyond the the content there's i'm looking at the spirit here the motive we just haven't had motivation i think that's what i am i'm encouraged the the get up and go hasn't been there it seems like for years while all the social justice stuff was happening sometimes i felt a little bit like a lone voice i know there were others ad robles was probably one of the most encouraging people in my mind just because he was out there saying stuff that needed to be said it was like where are the pastors and the people with influence that already had shows like why isn't the white horse in kicking this thing out of the park right i these are the thoughts i was having um i know james white did a few episodes on the dividing line about james conan that really encouraged me because i thought where where's everyone else why isn't al moeller really kicking this stuff out of the park well now you see al moeller starting to hint towards that i don't know how far he's gonna go is he gonna fire jarvis williams you know if he doesn't do that if he doesn't repent of some of the things he's advocated himself then i mean it's i don't consider it necessarily all legitimate but but it's moving the needle in a different direction than he has been moving it that is key that's important to realize there that there's something in the water and i don't know exactly what it is but there's a get up and go there's a motivation there's an energy uh moms for liberty right there's there's the working class and the uh just stay at home moms and soccer moms they're they're getting motivated to do something because i think they realize the institutions have failed so it's up to us and that's a good thing when we realize that all right god's given me time and talent and i'm going to invest it for his purposes and part of that means taking a stand for the things that he's entrusted to me to preserve those things good to take moral stands when they're necessary i think there's there's an energy that's coming it's a reaction to perhaps what we've seen in 2020 and though there's a lot of dismal things to point to i just want to highlight this silver lining because there is something moving in a better direction here and let's i'll just put it this way if al moeller's truly an opportunist then and things were really going way more in a woke direction at least in evangelicalism i think al moeller would probably if if that's who he is he would be moving that direction but he's not so you got to wonder what's in the water what's going on and so hopefully that encourages you uh hey whatever you can do be part of this i'm not saying call yourself a christian nationalist or anything like that you don't have to if you want to go for it but uh just get involved in your community and if you've been sitting on the sidelines and you've been watching other people and it's time to stop it's time to do something about it and uh and that might look different for different people i want to say this one last thing not everyone's going to be a podcaster there's a place for it obviously you're listening to this podcast there is but god's given you a unique set of abilities and a unique audience to influence and i would just take inventory of that maybe that is starting a podcast it could be but i just have noticed a lot of people think oh i want to make a difference let's start a podcast that's that's not always the right move or that's not always the way you're going to make a difference it might be good to have a podcast for educational purposes or something but it you want you want to think through how can i invest to the best of my ability the abilities of god's given me so hopefully uh you are all energized ready to go and encouraged by that get out there and do something more coming later in the week last but not least i almost forgot to mention it but this is the last day that you can get christianity and social justice religions in and social justice goes to church for only 11 50 and i have to say this i totally forgot to say this but i have to say it now um i something happened with social justice goes to church so i limited the inventory because i know knew i was running out people were just ordering so many i was actually surprised so i have to put another order in so i just did that today put another order in but it kept selling on the website even though i limited the inventory for some reason it kept selling them so those of you in the last two days who have ordered social justice goes to church many of you are going to be waiting probably uh two weeks before you get your order in everyone else if you just order christianity and social justice you're going to get it within like two or three days probably but if you ordered social justice goes to church it's going to take a little time and if that's okay with you then then great if not you can reach out to me but this book uh both of these books i think are very important to understanding what's happening in the church the threats we face from the social justice movement first one is more of a history social justice goes to church christianity and social justice is more the apologetics of it it's the newer book that i've written but they're both important and and people have told me very helpful so you're going to want to get these books go to worldviewconversation .com