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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line

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The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence

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Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed

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Baptist Church This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with dr.

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White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll -free across the

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United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three -four -one And now with today's topic here is

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James white and welcome to the vying line on a Tuesday morning

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I predict computer catastrophe and failure today on the program The reason being when you ask your system to start up Bible works and it takes it two and a half minutes

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Just to find the program The system is confused and so I'm going to make a prediction right now that somewhere there is a hung process on this system and Right now

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I am thinking of the PC and Mac commercials Thinking of the

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PC guy one of the PC guys staying there saying I've been error -free for a whole week I've been error -free for a whole week.

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I've been error -free for a whole week And this isn't even a Vista machine.

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This is this is what's supposed to work all the time well,

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I Just hear all you Mac cultists out there right now going it's not gonna be long now

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He's coming Yeah It's gonna happen probably I guess

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I mean, come on, you know, if you can't produce a system that it's actually stable enough to work

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Someone's gonna buy another another system. But yeah, anyway Eight seven seven seven five three, three, three, four one.

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I've got a bunch of stuff queued up but I've also got Phone calls and I've got a situation where I need to teach rich has spells up to agent and You thought you'd get away with that didn't you

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I Couldn't but let's go ahead start with the calls. Anyways, then I've got a King James only preacher from Tempe Arizona lined up and he's gonna refute

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Calvinism for us and it's always Always good to have King James only guys

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Yeah This is the guy same guy that did the one the one video that I don't know how many people sent that thing to me

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Posted it where he was talking about. Well, you know, yeah, that's the guy. Yeah. Well, he's gonna review

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Calvinism for us, too So Wow, look at the phones today, what is this? It's too wait a minute.

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It's in the more Tuesday morning No one ever calls on a Tuesday morning There this is not possible, but we were filling up the phone lines like boom that fast.

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So some days Anyway, let's talk with Rob in st.

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Louis. Hi Rob Doing all right Today on John's gospel chapter 18 in verse 38.

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I was Discussing this chapter with a friend of mine recently and when we got to this verse We both my friend and I were wondering

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You know when when pilot asked his question, what is truth? The question that we were wondering was when he asked this question

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What's he saying? It's Sort of like a cynical politician saying, you know, what is truth?

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It's nothing or was he asking it more along the lines of what is truth? Well, maybe for the first time in his life maybe really

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Wondered about the question. Is there anything in the original Greek or in the in that verse or the immediate? Context would give any clues as to that well

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You know when folks ask if there's something in the original Greek that they don't say in English I always say well the

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English does a pretty good job. So no, there really isn't anything there. I think the only indication that that you're gonna find there is the fact that Pilot doesn't wait around for a response when he had said this he went out again to the

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Jews and said to them I find no guilt in him And I I think it would be significantly

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More more common to understand pilot is expressing the common skepticism of the philosophical systems of the day

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For there was a great deal of skepticism as to the very nature of truth the ability to know truth then just as there is

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Today, so the given the fact that he does not That there is no

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Indication that he said so what is truth and then Jesus refused to answer him anymore or something like that Then you'd have a reason for seeing something different in in his statement but the fact that he says something that would be common to the skeptical philosophical systems of the day and then immediately goes out and There's no further discussion would seem to indicate that the common interpretation that this is said in a cynical fashion

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Is the appropriate reading? They like to point to Pilot in the

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Gospels, they say well Yes, they say well this you know, the Bible can't be inerrant because they said the rest of the historical

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Record regarding pilot shows him as being very bloodthirsty and cruel and he never would have had any qualms about Sending an innocent person to death, you know, especially if it was somebody considered to be basically just another

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Jewish troublemaker I know you've debated a lot of liberals and skeptics Well, I know that you know,

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John Dominic Croson, of course himself questions that there was any connection whatsoever between Jesus and pilot for the reason that Someone like Jesus wouldn't get that far up the the ladder

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And so he just considers it all a a historical later edition.

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So on so forth. I don't know how much External sources can tell you about pilot because they're basically going to give you summary statements of things that he did obviously his his

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Job was to try to keep peace in the context of a very piece less area and so The way to do that is especially given the fact that he doesn't have

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I'm not sure what is there is there a sound or something behind you? It's it's it's really difficult Yeah, I must well then then your signal must be breaking up or something because it sounds like people are dropping dishes behind you

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Okay, but He would he he's in a context where he doesn't have legions at his command a lot of people think that there were

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You know Rome parked entire legions in Israel's and they didn't there was an it was a backwater area It's not until 80 70 with men

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Titus shows up and we see what happens when the legions show up They don't march into an area just to camp, you know, they're not coming in just to Sightsee, they're they're coming in to do some serious damage.

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So the idea of Trying to contrast you don't get to my knowledge you don't have any

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Serious historical account where pilot is actually speaking and interacting with somebody you have summaries of things that he did

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Josephus tells us he did X Y or Z or something like that. Well, those are summaries It doesn't tell you much about what his attitude toward that was or how he got to that or anything else

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So it does come up, but I don't know that it's much of a valid argument to say

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Well, you know, he did some terrible things elsewhere. Yeah well if you just summarize what he ends up doing with Jesus you wouldn't include any of The process that came up to that point you just would summarize the fact that he crucified

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Jesus and so now he looks bloodthirsty so on and so forth and I Just don't see creating alleged contradictions out of that kind of stuff is really gonna get you very far though again

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You know on the internet today People are are gonna you know come up with anything. I was actually looking at what is that guy

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Oh Debunking Christianity who is that guy loftus? I was looking at a video that loftus put up and I think

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I downloaded if I have the time I'd like love to go through it just amazing at how completely

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Ignorant of the context of things he is and and how many times he shot himself the foot but those kind of people will dig up anything and They will put a tremendous amount of weight on things that don't really

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Bear a whole lot of weight. So yeah, okay Rob. Okay. Thanks your call Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

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I want you to go get a dictionary Ouch Ouch ouch riches riches thinking about taking a leave of absence, right?

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Oh, he's turning off all the microphones. Look at that No more dividing line today I Know if you're smart, you'd be grabbing the microphone saying look

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I just always use LXX and that would be a really easy way of getting around the you know

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That's how lawyers would do it. But anyways, we were talking about the septuagint with Bill Down in in God's country

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Hello Yes. Well, I wasn't it's I wasn't gonna force you to reveal your actual location

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Because for some people that that's not a good thing. So but that's okay. So he's down in Dallas Well, do you ever come down here?

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Uh About four years ago. I'll be in Houston in July Okay Well, you know you get the problem with that is

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I sort of need to have people who like me in the area Yeah, but you know,

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I haven't gotten any invitations from Dan either so Anyway, okay.

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Anyway, that's what I what I called about I know that you're familiar and I recently watched again the

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John Ankerberg videos having seen what's been going on on YouTube Not not about the

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Wilkins frog in the throat, but about the about the LXX. Yes Yeah, like that. Okay, and because I remember you pointing out that dr

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Strauss held a different position on the LXX then Sam get yeah, yeah, you know, it's been a long time, but my recollection is that Strauss isn't a part of the

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Septuagint didn't exist. It wasn't created till origin group Well, I'm I'm not sure on that and not speaking so much on Strauss but Jack Borman is a part of their group the

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DBS. Mm -hmm the deep the Dean Burgon Society Yeah and Anyway, there's a new thing or at least it's new to me kind of making the rounds somebody posted on one of the boards

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Where I post recently a guy named Will Kinney who he doesn't like you either, but I'm familiar with the name believe me

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Oh, yeah Yes, and it seems to me that the argument is a

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Okay, because he well for starters They're claiming that this guy and and it's

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DPS all I've taken at this point mostly is New Testament I haven't gotten really deep into the the Old Testament and the relation of the

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Masoretic text and the and the Septuagint but He Claiming there's an

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Old Testament scholar named Paul Kale and he's performing who has claimed

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That that claims that there was no archetype of Yeah of the

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Septuagint Well, but what I have discovered so they say that since he says there was no original full scale

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Septuagint that I guess it Coagulated together or kind of came together across They're trying to argue that he said that there wasn't any but when

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I looked him up He actually does he thinks that came from the Targums and he dates it around 150

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BC Yeah, well there there really isn't there really isn't a question about the pre -existence of the

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Septuagint even though the manuscripts that we have Come from after the time of Christ.

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There really isn't any question given the impact that had on people like Philo and and people like that in the in the diaspora and the fact that Look the

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New Testament quotes a Greek translation of the Old Testament and it does so consistently and it does so in such a way that There is no way that there was not a pre -existing translation from which these citations are being taken

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The to try to say otherwise is is just we have to bring you down something cuz we're at I don't know if it's our phone lines on spots what it is, but everybody's got a lot of noise in the background, so we'll bring back up in just a moment, but The the only and I don't even know what is accomplished for the

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King James only us by denying the existence of the Septuagint Because the King James translators themselves made reference to it and and certainly did not join them in their attacking it and People like Dean Burgon and others would would never they'd spin in their graves if people representing them engaged in this kind of head -in -the -sand anti -scholarship, but the fact the matter is the the text that the early church used in Ephesus and in Thessalonica and in Philippi that the

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Apostles specifically chose to quote from even when that Involved quoting a textual variant that differed from the

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Masoretic text and maybe that's why they do this Was the Greek translational

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Testament now does that mean that these stories about the translation the Septuagint are true?

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No, the stories being that there were 70 scholars of 72 scholars who Got together and they went into separate rooms and they translate either a portion of the

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Old Testament or all the Old Testament and they all came back and all of them had translated Exactly the same and this was divine providence

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And that means and and Christians even believe things like that early Christians in the first centuries Actually believed that that was how the

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Greek Septuagint was was put together Well, that's not the case anyone who's looked at the Greek Septuagint knows that for example the quality of translation found in the

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Pentateuch is Considerably higher than that found say in the Minor Prophets or in some of the historical books

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And so it wasn't just a single project done a single time you come out with a single version and boom here it is

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It's being done as the Jews are encountering Greek culture Starting probably 250 years before Christ up to 150 years before Christ And and so, you know the question can't can't be it

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Wow We're just gonna wait, hey a bill it sounds like Air Force One just landed on top of you, so Can you still hear me?

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Yeah, I can hear you fine. Yeah, we're getting a horrible when you hear the recording You'll see that we're getting a horrible sounds from your your phone line.

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I'm not sure why but anyway, so there there's actually a number of excellent books in the

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Septuagint that have come out recently and You might find them to be useful and looking at there's one called invitation to the

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Septuagint These are not books that sell real well, but they are they are well worth looking into especially given that that area of textual history of the

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Old and New Testaments is I think apologetically One of the richest to be prepared for objections to from the enemies of the faith

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Well, can I just a real quick a couple things on what you had said, yeah It wasn't that I disagreed with anything

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But what the what the way they argue it is they take what you were just saying for example, like there's references

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I think in Philo and martyr and what they say is that the only source that they had was the letter of Aristeas and That that is a spurious letter and therefore they were just passing on fairy tales so they can't be considered

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Well, I said the passing on the stories of where it came from is irrelevant

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But you don't make up stories about a text that isn't going to be created until origin comes along That's that's the problem.

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I Certainly the stories themselves I don't give any weight to at all even though the early

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Christians did but the fact the matter is you don't make up stories about the inspiration of a text that doesn't exist the

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Jews used the Greek Septuagint until The Christians started using it and that's when they went to a different Greek textual platform that varied from the

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Greek Septuagint so the to Again, you're faced with a New Testament That quotes not the

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Hebrew Masoretic text, but a Greek translation of the Old Testament Are we actually supposed to believe that those translations were freshly done by the

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Apostles? Even when they're writing to churches that therefore would have no text that would match that When you're writing to the church at Philippi you write to them in the language that they are going to utilize

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That they have available in their own translations and that translation was the Greek Septuagint It is just it's pure sticking your head in the sand to say otherwise

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The other two things they did was the Mention you talked about because it is mentioned of course in the preface to the 1611

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King James It states about the Translation of the 70 dissents from the original in many places right and yet that Christ and the

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Apostles used it well, they write that off and Sort of I guess an irony or something.

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I mean the ways they come up to get around They're just really interesting. Well, I'm sorry, but I the the the single most common

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Elements of King James only ism is pure irrationality. That's just that's just all there is to it

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And so when someone is absolutely wedded to that system, it does not matter what facts you demonstrate what things you show them there's always a way around any factual evidence as long as You really don't have a love for truth.

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And that's unfortunate what you encounter in a lot of these situations The conspiracy my you know, everything that is evidence against the conspiracy is actually evidence for it

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Oh, of course, anything can be turned into that you bet right you bet. It doesn't matter So the name of the book is an invitation to the

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Septuagint. Yeah, I'm I've got my library I think it was Moises Silva. I could be wrong about that.

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But some reason that connections taking place in my brain So maybe somebody in channel will

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Amazon it real quick or Google it real quick and I can mention But I think it was Moises Silva, but invitation to the

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Septuagint. Yeah Thanks a lot bill. Thank you. All right. God bless. Bye -bye. Bye -bye 877 -753 -3341

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Is an phone number. Let's talk with Jonathan. Hi Jonathan Good My question for you comes from October 31st.

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So dividing line of 2006 on your commenting on a Jerry Vine audio clip

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He was mentioning the three wills in the Bible You started kind of critiquing his comments and the verse that actually came to mind was

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Luke 22 42 When the Lord is praying and he's saying you nevertheless not my will but by will

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And the comments you made were you know, you said that that God is not limited to his creations will

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That he would not be diminished That his will was still stand so I guess the question is what will is

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The Lord's will and what what will does the father have at that moment? well,

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I Sort of chuckled because there's only one person on the planet that actually remembers almost anything about whatever

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I said about Jerry Vines From two years ago, and that would be algo He will undoubtedly remember exactly what

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I said, I certainly don't have any recollection of that I I don't listen to myself actually, so I don't remember what the context of Whatever Jerry Vines was saying or anything else is so I can't comment on any of that But but Luke 22 42 is talking about the fact that the the

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Sun is facing the cross and He's facing becoming the substitutionary atonement for the sins of the world

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Jews and Gentiles and there is a Certainly a divine mystery in the struggle.

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That is the Messiah's at this point. That is To be handled I think very carefully and certainly not to be extended beyond the unique situation that it represents that is

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We deal here with issues relating to the human nature of Christ the relationship of the divine and the human in Christ the relationship of the

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Father and Son in the Trinity and specifically here the Son incarnated right before doing the greatest act of obedience to the

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Father's will and all the rest of these things so it's obviously an absolutely unique situation and I would argue

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Precludes it's being used as a paradigm for anything else because they're just there's no

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Parallel to it to be seen anywhere but within this context you have the distinction being made between the

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Father and the Son and the recognition that there is because the

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Son is a true human person the existence Is a not just human person, but of course in the incarnate state

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But is not just a a body without a will so on and so forth And so he makes reference to yet.

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Not my will but yours be done. So there is This this really is a key proof text.

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I would say against modalism against those who would Try to say that the

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Son is two persons and and so on so forth the Father and the Son things like that if if if it weren't if we didn't believe in the deity of Christ if we were looking at Isaiah saying something in regards or Jeremiah in regards to the ministry that was being given to him or a

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Message he was to deliver to the people this wouldn't be difficult to understand at all because it's one person a direct addressing another person but since this is in reference to Christ then

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The the issue really becomes well wouldn't Christ will Always be in perfect harmony with the fathers and it is it's not stating that Well, I don't want to do this or I reject this or anything else instead.

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You have a submission here You have the the the perfect voluntary Submission of the incarnate ones will to that of the non incarnate one, which is the father and So I'm not sure what that has to do with Jerry Vines because I honestly have no recollection whatsoever to anything

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Jerry Vines was saying about anything so if I were to Go back and listen to that then

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I might see where the connection is, but I have no recollection of that at all

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Well, it really just talked about him Trying to find that there was three different wills occurring in the

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Bible and in the world and a permissive Decree the permission something like that.

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I was he making that statement as it was he criticizing Calvinism for Having a secret will yeah, he was criticizing

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Calvinism and yeah contradicting himself quite a bit too, but But yeah, my question was just is are there three wills are there for and was this just that unique situation where that's very unique Yeah, no, there's very very unique and I think it represents the fact that Christ is truly

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The incarnate one and what you have here is what enly any godly man should do

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Just as the Son prayed and worshiped the Father So to you have the submission of his will to that of the divine will of the

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Father Okay, all right, thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. God bless Eight seven seven seven five three three four one we continue on with the phone calls and talk with Medford.

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Hi med Hey at least the last two callers, so don't have 747s revving up behind them

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You sound fine, okay Preaching a sermon series this summer and The way that the series is going is

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I'm allowing the congregation to write questions that they have about the faith anything that they particularly

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Passages that they have problems with things like that. Yeah, they did that Mars Mars Hill. So you must be sort of emergent, huh?

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No, the folks of Mars Hill would say they're reformed.

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Oh, they're just Just Our church is not reformed

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I'll be very honest our church comes out of the old disciples of Christ movement Oh, okay, and they called me as minister here.

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They actually sent me to school I grew up at this church and when I was finished with seminary our pastors really retire so he they called me and I came but I came telling them that I'm coming to bring a

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Reform message I'm coming to bring a you know, hopefully the Reformation in this church That's why I'm here and I want to know what the people are thinking what questions they have so that's what

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I can be exceptionally dangerous Yeah, but a trinity hymnal with a good flick of the wrist can be really dangerous

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Here's the question I got a sweet lady she's wonderful and she asked I thought was a very good question

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It's one of those why questions and sometimes the why questions are the hardest one to answer because there's you know Sometimes there's not a clear answer, but I want to ask you what you thought about this she's talking about the the tree in the garden the tree of knowledge of good and evil and of course the question is, you know is what was the reasoning for even giving the potentiality for evil and of course my

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You know in the sermon, I've already written the sermon But the thing that I kept running into when

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I was when I was kind of searching out Learned people and what they had to say on that was they kept talking about God wanted to give man a choice

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God wanted to give men a choice and Of course, you know, I'm In my sermon

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I'm dealing more with the fact that God has a purpose for all that he does and is to bring himself glory and God has purpose in and even

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Allowing the evil in the world that he has but it still doesn't answer the question I think that she's asking is why why even produce the potential and I was just wondering how you would

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Like that and if you've ever had that question before Well, I don't remember if I've had the question before probably in some context.

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I don't know but two things first I think there is

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Wisdom in teaching folks that There there needs to be a proper boundaries in reference to our questioning of God's Revelation that is

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I've often pointed to the contrast between two great men of the faith John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards Calvin seemed to be much more

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Quick to say that we must make an end of speaking Where God has made an end of speaking and therefore to speculate about things that he is not specifically spoken about Can often lead us into far more dangerous ground and then we actually want to be in and So as a result of that You then compare

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Jonathan Edwards attempting to figure out the exact nature of Adams will that would allow him to fall while in a state of perfection and Even a great fan of his like John Gerstner As a result saying that's the great man found himself in a morass of self -contradiction

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He went beyond where God had made an end of speaking. And so there is wisdom in Pointing to pointing that out and saying we we need to be careful that we do not

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Try to speak when when God has not spoken at the same time It's it's not wrong to ask a question as long as one is willing to allow the secret things to belong to the

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Lord our God and the things to be written that are revealed belong to us and to our children as long as they'll allow God To determine what is appropriate for us to know and not know rather than us and make their faith dependent upon that You know, that's that's an important issue.

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So is there any specific discussion of The original purpose and intention of the tree

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For and placing it within the garden. No that there isn't and in fact It is very similar to the

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Adam situation and that is To try to expand much on almost anything the first two chapters of Genesis Given that the entire

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Context of those first two chapters before the fall is Completely outside of our experience and we have nothing else to shed any light on it at all

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Is often very dangerous ask Benny Hinn when he had Adam flying to the moon and things like that You can you can really go way off track with stuff like that if you're not careful at the same time

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There are general principles that should that can be applied in the sense that the judge of all the earth will do right there is a purpose why this was there was there a it could there have been a submission of in in growth of Adam and Eve to where That Prohibition would eventually be taken away

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No way of knowing since that's not what happened and there's no discussion about it and it's all speculation

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It's I don't know that it's fair to say. Well, why create the potentiality?

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Well, if you're the potentiality is is created in the creation of man himself Yeah, and unless you're not going to have any limitations on man, then there's going to be a potentiality

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For for rebellion it you know, the text doesn't just simply state. Well, this was done so that man could fall well, that's not what it states that's not where it's going, but If you're going to create man, the potentiality is in the creation of man not in the giving of law

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So, you know that just happened to be the object of the law that is given and that is do not

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Do not partake of this tree. So yeah beyond that. I don't know that you can give much of a

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Biblical answer you can give a philosophical answer a speculative answer you can Write fiction stories about what

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Adam and Eve were like before the fall and all the rest that kind of stuff But none of that is actually the same thing as giving them a real biblical answer

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So exactly my focus in the message is that evil itself is not a created thing

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It's a negation of God's perfection that evil originates in in man and not in God and that in that God has a purpose for decreeing

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All things so that's really where I'm trying to focus with the sermon is not not so much giving the why answer

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But just giving what we do know. Yeah, well, that's and that's all you can do, especially with almost any

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Genesis 1 & 2 speculative questions, it's We it, you know, we like to speculate about such things and yet generally, my feeling is

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I Don't necessarily get upset with the speculation But it is upsetting if we spend more time speculating about that than actually learning what is clearly revealed in Scripture for us

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And so yeah when I find folks that are always speculating, but they don't they know almost nothing about what's actually been revealed

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That's generally a problem. Yeah, that's generally a problem. All right Thanks for calling 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 let's go ahead and talk with Bob.

33:44

Hi, Bob. Whoops. There we go. Hi, Bob Hello, dr. White. How you doing? Good good.

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I have a question concerning John 1 14 and when you're dealing with someone who is trying to present the strawman argument that God is

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Not a man and therefore The word cannot become flesh You've ever if you've ever heard that objection or if you've ever dealt with that I was wondering well, yeah

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I I'm not sure give me a little more information about what kind of person I mean a Muslim is gonna make that argument they they use the same text that I use and talking to Mormons, so they have 11 9 and Passages like that numbers 23 19 guys not a man that he should lie.

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No, it's not a man He should repent they use all of those But they are of course Misunderstanding what the doctrine of Trinity is stating because we're not saying that God has eternally been a man

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In fact, the important thing to to recognize is that in the prologue of John up until this point

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John has utilized the imperfect form of I mean In referring to the

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Logos the Logos is eternally existed everything else He uses again at all the earth's form of get am I to refer to these created things or came a man sent from John?

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It's in verse 14 that he changes that and says kaha Logos arcs again at all and that is the word became flesh

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So there was a point of time in which the word entered into Fleshly existence the word has not eternally existed as flesh and no one is saying

35:16

That God is man We are saying God is spirit God is God God created man and God has the capacity and ability to enter into his own

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Creation should he chose to do so which he did in the person of Christ Jesus, but man is not a definitive defining attribute of God Instead one person the

35:39

Sun entered into Human flesh it was not the father became incarnate.

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It was not the spirit who became incarnated and so it that still does not

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Become defining of the nature of God outside of the Sun Being the God man.

35:56

So well the argument the argument that they posed was Of course,

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I'm saying The word who was God took on flesh Therefore the nature of God did not become the nature of a human right, you know within the incarnation

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But they utilized then John 114 and say well here if you logically put together

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The word was God and the word became flesh and therefore they try to argue that God became

36:27

Humanity as to his nature. Yeah So I'm going to refute the doctrine. Yeah, some kind of essential change in the nature of God and you simply go

36:36

Why are you forcing that on that especially in light of the fact? that the you are in in essence introducing a

36:46

Contradiction that does not need to be there if you force a writer to contradict himself then you are obviously missing the intention that the the writer initially sought to Provide in the first place you are you are in essence going beyond what they are trying to say

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So when they say the word sarks again, it's all what they're trying to Smuggle in there is that he ceased to be

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God and given that The very next verb that is used

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He dwelt among us as in it's the very same same term

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Skaino to to dwell within a tent He dwells with us.

37:29

We saw his glory the glories of the only begotten for the father full of grace and truth So that even here you have noggin issues the unique one who comes from the father, okay?

37:38

There's there's nothing if he had ceased being God then you would not have

37:44

Our gazing upon his glory You the very term doxa that is used there full of grace and truth.

37:52

You would not have the description I think a 118 the rest of the book and might be useful at that point

37:58

Because it says no one has ever seen God any time, but the unique God the monogamous they asked he has explained him

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He has revealed him. He has made him known he could not do that if he ceased being God I risked the nature of God changed, so you know it's

38:14

John commenting in past tense upon the whole prologue that he just introduced well

38:20

John the entire prologue 1 1 through 18 is is meant to be I think the lens through which the rest of the gospel is

38:27

Read and 118. I think is a bookend 1 1 1 they're both giving us the same information and in different words, and they're elucidating what each is intending so Anybody you know

38:38

I remember once talking with a friend And he was talking with a Jehovah's Witness and this certain Jehovah's Witness was making an argument about One particular text about the

38:48

Holy Spirit, and I said well you can't refute that and he was like what do you mean? He can't read that so well There's not a refutation

38:54

For every single misuse of a single verse the truth of Christianity is found in the fullness of the revelation of God Not in any one single verse and so hang on the doctor in the tree does not hang on one verse well

39:07

I'm five seven for example right, but not just that it's also that sometimes

39:13

People involved and interested in apologetics like I am You want and you can hear it in the voices and the tone of voice and the words that people use even when they call this program they want a magic bullet from the original languages and sometimes and sometimes it's there sometimes the

39:33

Misunderstanding that someone has is clearly contradictory to what the text says, but leaving that aside for the moment

39:41

Sometimes there are ways in which texts are twisted That if all you had was that text if you didn't have the rest the

39:50

Word of God if you did not have Teaching elsewhere in the Word of God if you don't have context flow the author whatever there would be no way to say that just given these 20 words that that interpretation is impossible, but it is

40:05

Important to remember that that God's truth is not found in only 20 words

40:10

It is that analogy of faith that that wholeness of the revelation and which is right yeah, that's the important thing to keep to and and sometimes we end up honestly misrepresenting the scriptures when we try to Refute things that are actually not refutable because we don't keep that in mind, and we don't recognize that so got to be careful

40:35

Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you very much, and God bless you in your ministry. Okay. Thanks a lot Bob. Thank you

40:40

Bye. God bless. Bye. Bye Wow I don't think we've had that many calls in ages What what was that all about that was that was great?

40:47

I mean, I had all sorts of stuff queued up here. We'll never get to all of it for now, but We'll get to some of it, which is you know

40:56

I've got two Clips here, and I okay. I'm out of the loop.

41:02

I will confess. I'm out of the loop I'm You know

41:07

I was sitting at Denny's last night with my Arabic tutor, and we're we're working on this

41:14

I'm gonna do a video on this, but we've got more translation work to do and some other things to find out

41:19

But we're looking at this Small piece of small it's fairly decent sized piece of parchment

41:27

That I have come into possession of from 1453 and It's written in Arabic And it is a

41:34

Christian who has collate has brought together the crucifixion accounts from Matthew Mark Luke and John and so We're sitting there, and I imagine the people sitting around is probably wonder what in the world this guy's over there

41:44

And he saw I'm Syrians, so they're probably going When you get the kids away from the bald guy, that's right, that's right and So you know that's that's where I am right now, so I I've been hearing about this

41:59

Bentley guy this Todd Bentley guy and So there's a bunch of discussion about this today in channel, so I had queued up some stuff from this

42:13

Todd Bentley guy Down in Florida someplace that why is man a lot of weird stuff comes out of Florida?

42:21

That was where the Pensacola revival was and Brownsville, Nebraska, Texas was there's a

42:27

Brownsville there Brownsville in Florida I don't know it. I think it ended up going over to Florida eventually but Just some weird weird stuff, and I'm watching this guy on YouTube going

42:39

Come on People can't be going to attend this kind of stuff.

42:45

I mean how just how gullible can you be? But sadly it's it's out there, so I I queued one of these things up and Yes, flamey just reminded us all in channel that he actually came out of Abbotsford, British Columbia And flamey being the

43:05

Canadian that she is living there Would know this so anyway

43:13

But given her advanced age she might have forgotten it by now, but anyway Someone's about to kick kick that channel.

43:21

I guarantee you just won't be me So here's I'm gonna play something.

43:27

Maybe you've not heard this guy but you know we've had laughing revivals and we've had fillings changing to gold and All this kind of Incredible stuff and now we've got and now we've got the

43:47

I don't know The the biker revivalist dude the violent biker revivalist guy so this guy's actually stand up allegedly preaching at this point and So here's here's this well

44:02

You just have to hear it for yourself the woman was standing in the back of the room when the faith of God hit the meeting

44:08

And her tumor exploded out of her right leg Slid down her leg onto the floor.

44:16

I said God I've prayed for like a hundred crippled people not one He said that's because I want you to grab that lady's crippled legs and bang them up and down on the platform like a baseball bat

44:29

I Walked up, and I grabbed her legs, and I started going I started banging them up and down on the bus.

44:37

She got healed And I'm thinking God. Why is not the power of God moving? He said because you haven't kicked that woman in the face

44:46

And there's this older lady Worshipping right in front of the platform and the

44:54

Holy Spirit spoke to me the gift of faith came on me He said kick her in the face with your biker boot

45:02

I Inced closer, and I went like this and just as my boot made contact with her nose

45:13

She fell into the power of God, and I saw him in the gift of faith came on there So what which is probably why she didn't sue this

45:21

I Do God and God told me to just run him down So I jumped up in the air, and I went down and I hit him to the ground

45:30

Jumped on to it and got into a full mount ground and pound

45:35

I Jumped on this and I was in a full mouth and something came over me and instead of punching

45:41

I grabbed him by the neck and started choking me, and I said come on now I said another meeting one time and I Called out this

45:51

Chinese gentleman. Have you noticed um which is it with his mouth hanging open already?

45:58

Have you noticed that? You know I've said as many times And and I guess it's one of the reasons that I get this terrible reputation of being a terrible horrible

46:08

Nasty unloving unkind person, but I said many times sometimes I will turn on the television and you find this stuff

46:16

And I'll be sitting there watching it and the thought will cross my mind That there is absolutely positively no connection whatsoever between my religion and That religion whatever that is now he he may talk about the spirit once in a while, but There's all sorts of religion to talk about spirits and things like that that's hardly relevant, and he may be in a allegedly evangelical church or something

46:48

But this isn't preaching This you can't call this preaching this isn't ministering the word of God or anything like that.

46:57

It's a guy telling silly stories To get attention for himself

47:03

As if somehow this is this is relevant to something

47:09

I guess and you know so I watch this this stuff And I said there was another clip that I saw that Lane put up Where Todd Friel was talking about this guy

47:20

And he put up some some of these clips and and there's this healing stuff going on and this guy just Falls down on the floor this

47:30

Todd Bentley and his head's jerking, and then he gets up, and he just starts cackling

47:38

And you just sit there watching this going Okay Wow that really seems like demonic to me lack of Control and no focus upon truth, and it's all focused upon individual and hmm

48:10

The pastor was lying on the floor

48:16

And I was standing up on the platform, and I said God I want revival He said these words to me leg drop the pastor.

48:27

I said what he said leg drop the pastor So we didn't get to find out you know what happened after that He looks like a big biker dude looks like my older brother or something if I had an older brother

48:46

But you know all this all this you know Violence and leg drop the pastor and punch the guy and and all the rest of stuff and you you watch the camera

48:56

Panning the audience and you look at these people and you just go What does someone have to be looking for?

49:05

To Even I mean honestly if if by some mistake

49:12

You know I mean I haven't posted this yet, but I don't even think

49:19

I told you about this. I used on my little blackberry here I used Google Maps to sort of Follow my path down to Brigham's wedding one of my ops and channel

49:29

Sean Burke got married down in Sierra Vista on on Saturday and So I was sort of following my progression all the way down to Sierra Vista, which is just north of the

49:39

Mexican border on Google Maps on my Blackberry and Few folks a channel will testify that once I got there

49:48

I went inside the church, and I opened it up and looked at the last thing and I couldn't read any of the names of the cities and so I start backing out to try to get a bigger picture of where it thought

50:00

I was and Finally got far enough out to realize that Google Maps thought

50:05

I was about 20 miles inland in Thailand And it literally had me in Thailand That's how far

50:14

Sierra Vista is Yeah, so so I was

50:20

I was I was way out there, so maybe if by some mistake Google Maps led me into this place

50:27

You know I'm supposed to be going someplace else to watch a friend speak or something like that I ended up in here, and this guy comes out and starts talking

50:37

I'm gonna last about 30 seconds and The first time

50:43

I probably wouldn't have made it through the music anyways, but the first time That this guy starts pointing to himself and talking about how he has these conversations with God You know he is the personal walking 28th book of the

50:57

New Testament getting personal revelation from God constantly and And that God's telling him to go beat people up He obviously watches way too much mixed martial arts programming and You know

51:17

I'd last about 30 seconds And I would get up and I would turn my back on the man, and I would walk out

51:23

Now he may come if he if he comes running after me To try to hit me He's gonna miss

51:32

So I just you know I wouldn't I wouldn't be there, so what are these people what kind of Spiritual abuse are you looking to heap upon yourself to sit in this stuff?

51:50

It's it's hard to say absolutely hard to say just just amazing stuff and like I said

51:55

Todd Friel where the where the master radio has

52:02

Started talking about this guy, and and I that's where I started hearing about this stuff and This you know it's another one of these revivals and five years from now

52:13

Is anything gonna be happening about this? It's probably no one probably hardly remember. What was

52:19

What was the laughing revival dude? Who Rodney Howard Brown yeah, you know where's he now?

52:27

You know is he is he filling 20 ,000 seat auditoriums no no you know that kind of stuff.

52:34

It's a flash in the pan happens You know and footnote in in the wacky history of Christian in America.

52:40

Here's um. Here's the beginning This is this is that cackling stuff, and I'll just just play this for you here if it

52:49

What's happening? I'll tell you what's happening people are getting healed in Lakeland.

52:56

You need to come and get some Yourself for this this is the

53:10

Rev and that was not Todd Friel That was that was Bentley on on the floor that has been going on down in Florida We we're we thought we

53:21

Let me see if I can play this where he goes back to that because he then gets up and they say really here

53:29

No, no, he's not gotten back up. He's got some still pictures. They're sort of scary of the Holy Spirit So yeah, that's the violent stuff.

53:37

Oh, yeah here we go Let's see My ears to the fluid wouldn't drain and then when you're praying over ears like my ears got really heated up and started

53:48

Oh It's time yeah there you

54:08

Wow There you go,

54:15

I look at that that kind of stuff, and I and I just go you know

54:22

The world looks at that and yeah They associate those people with me, it's it's

54:31

At you you would hope and pray that if you have an opportunity to actually speak to someone you could make a clear differentiation

54:38

But goodness that stuff's out there. I Listen to that and the only thing

54:44

I can think of is Jesus calling the people of his day a wicked and perverse generation in They this stuff so far beyond that What The common term in channels been demonic yeah,

54:59

I mean that's the kind of manifestation you expect crowds Pursuing this wickedness.

55:07

I know demonic activity, and that's what's freaking me out the fact that these these alleged churches would be willing to even

55:18

Allow that kind of thing to take place is is unbelievable What's this

55:25

Lane go to the end of the video time stamp 945 now? This is dangerous. I have to trust

55:31

I have to trust Lane here, but he's he's Okay, oh, there's there is a whole section here.

55:38

Okay, all right. Let's back it up here. Let's go about 914 here We go been leg -dropping the pastor out there

55:45

Oh Wait wait

56:17

She's healed Debbie Debbie, why don't you tell us what happened?

56:24

I've been coming here and watch now. Let me just mention for those you not seen this is on YouTube and Lane CH, Lane Chaplain has this up.

56:36

It's called Todd Bentley's Violent Ministry, W -O -T -M -R, one of two. It's right at the end of that.

56:42

This is a huge place. I mean they've got, they got money because they've got big screen projection and and I don't know how big the place is but this is this is a big place.

56:56

Now of course you walk into that place with a tie on, they'd probably cut it off of you but it's a big place.

57:02

Somebody had to put some money into this stuff. I actually believe this is what God's doing. And it's been 27 days that my issues resolved and I was coming here because of a car accident.

57:13

You're healed. And on the stairs my arms started to get on fire where I'm having the pain from the car accident and I'm fine.

57:21

While I'm standing there I got healed in my shoulder and my neck. Hey guess what. You feeling a little drunk right now?

57:37

Oh my God. Just knocked her over. He's blowing at her.

57:46

And then laughing hysterically. Something's happening.

57:53

He's shaking like he's got epilepsy. There you go folks.

58:02

There's what is seen as revival in quote -unquote evangelicalism today.

58:12

Wow. When we pray for revival, one of the results of that revival would be more and more people willing to stand up and say that that has nothing to do with the gospel of Christ, Christianity, and we will have nothing to do with it either.

58:30

Wow. Weird, weird stuff. Anyways, we'll be back again Lord willing Thursday afternoon here on The Dividing Line.

58:38

And that dividing line is an important thing we've been talking about for many years. But it becomes more important as time goes on.

58:45

We'll see you Thursday. God bless. The Dividing Line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega Ministries.

59:39

If you'd like to contact us call us at 602 -973 -4602 or write us at P .O.

59:44

Box 37106, Phoenix, Arizona 85069. You can also find us on the

59:50

World Wide Web at AOMIN .org. That's A -O -M -I -N dot O -R -G. Where you'll find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates, and tracks.