TLP 429: Creating a Family Tech Framework | Nathan & Anna Sutherland Interview, Part 3

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That's why we need a Family Framework, whether it's ours or someone else's. Again, when we went out and looked at Family Frameworks, we didn't find one to point people to.

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We're like, these are terrible. So that's why we made one, was because… Welcome to Truth.

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Love. Parents. Where we use God's Word to become intentional, premeditated parents.

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Here's your host, A .M. Brewster. If you don't do anything else today, please check out our giveaways page for an opportunity to win a free copy of the

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Gospel Tech Family Tech Framework online course. It is so good. And even if you don't win one of the two workshops we'll be giving away, the

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Sutherlands are still offering a 50 % discount to all TLP listeners through the end of April.

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So get your copy before you forget. And now, on with the interview. Welcome back to our four -part interview with Nathan and Anna Sutherland from Flint &

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Iron and Gospel Tech Podcast. I am A .M. Brewster and this is Truth. Love. Parent. On the first part, we introduced their ministries and discussed the two types of tech your family will utilize.

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On the second part, we discussed how to know if your family's tech usage is healthy and what you can do if it's not.

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I highly recommend you listen to those episodes if you haven't heard them yet. I also highly recommend you subscribe to the

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Gospel Tech Podcast and click the link in the description of this episode to learn more about the Gospel Tech Online Workshop.

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Now Nathan and Anna were gracious enough to offer TLP listeners a 50 % discount off the workshop through the end of April.

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The workshop, trust me, is well worth the full price. You'd be crazy not to purchase it at half price.

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But if you're interested in trying to win a free copy, because they also decided that they were going to give away two free copies, if you'd like to win a copy of the workshop, you have one week to do it.

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Next Saturday, we will announce the winners of our drawing. But again, even if you don't win the free workshop, you can still buy a copy for 50 % off through the end of April.

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Now, how do you enter the drawing for the free workshop? Well click the link in the description of this episode or navigate to truthloveparent .com

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forward slash giveaways to learn more. And lastly, Nathan and I would love to serve you, your family, your church, your ministry, your school, your organization by being invited to speak for an event.

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Nathan presents on the topics of technology and the gospel. Well, actually, if I'm being honest, it's probably just one topic he's presenting on, technology and the gospel.

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And I most often speak on marriage, parenting, family, discipleship, and worship. If you'd be interested in having

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Nathan speak at your event, head over to gospeltech .net to learn more. And if you'd be interested in having me speak at your event, go to ambruster .com.

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And, I'm sorry. And if you'd be interested in having us both speak at your event, you're clearly a refined and intelligent individual blessed with great wisdom and discernment.

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Or maybe not. Anyway, let's get to know our special guest a little bit more with another tech trivia question.

03:05

Nathan and Anna, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us. So glad you guys are back.

03:11

Are the kids being good? Yeah, we ran into a bit of a storm with the two -year -old this week.

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She turned into a bit of a human tornado, but it was good. Not to be unexpected.

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Yeah, that's awesome. They're great. It's such a dream. So, but you have a fantastic babysitter right now who's got the whole thing covered.

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Oh, yes. They are happy. They're like, can she stay longer and you be gone?

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That's what they say. They love her. That's awesome. They've been counting down for days. They're like, it's only three more days till Miss McKenna comes.

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Like, yeah. Okay. Like, all right. That's fine. We get it. We're here too. Remember us? We're your parents.

03:51

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We know. You're the one who got rid of the TV. Okay.

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It's hard to bring it up again. All right. Here's today's - Still too soon. Sorry. Sorry.

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Sorry. I can remember that. Here's today's tech trivia question. What was your favorite piece of tech when you were in high school?

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Now, I personally had a lot of favorites, but I remember how awesome it was when I got my first, ready for it?

04:16

My first Discman. It was amazing. Of course, you really couldn't carry it around very much because, you know, it'd always be skipping and whatnot.

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But - Yeah. It didn't have the anti -skip yet. That was a huge deal. Like the 10 second anti -skip. Yeah. It didn't have that.

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Not at first anyway. The Walkman was actually superior to that because of that. But you know what? It was a Discman. You know?

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Ooh. I was high class at that moment. How about you guys? Yeah. That's awesome. I really loved my car radio that you could take out of the car.

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You had to take it out when you got home so that somebody couldn't steal it. It was the one with the removable faceplate.

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Had like the - Somebody still - Like the glasses case you could like snap it into? Yes. It was just an illusion though because somebody still, I took that out and my radio still got stolen.

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What? But until that point, it felt really fancy to be able to take it out. Nice. Just out of spite.

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I don't know. It was just a spiteful steal. It is. It's terrible. It seemed like a good idea. That was such next level though.

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I didn't have any of that kind of customized technology in my car. I'm so hip. I would say mine was definitely my

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Nintendo 64. It comprised a major part of my high school experience.

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There was a lot of friends made and lost through gaming competitions through that thing.

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A lot of NFL Blitz, shout out to some old school football games and some

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GoldenEye comprise a lot of, yeah. Definitely actually cost my parents some furniture as well.

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There was some impromptu acts of physical combat that came from that and my parents couch may or may not have made it through that.

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That's awesome. That is so totally awesome. I love it. I actually never made it past the original Nintendo myself. I never had a

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Super Nintendo. I never had a 64. I was probably jealous of guys like you, but I always had my

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Discman to console me. What were you listening to on your

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Discman? I got to know what was going into the ears of A .M. Brewster. What my parents knew

06:18

I was listening to or? Yeah, sure. We can go with that. Okay. What my parents knew I was listening to was a lot of soundtracks.

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I actually really love Christian music. Back then I was, and still today, I listen a lot to the Steve Pettit Evangelistic team and things like that, kind of that Appalachian sound, but then also the orchestral stuff as well.

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A lot of soundtracks. I remember when I got Jurassic Park. That was awesome. Oh, yes.

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I had one of those big CD players, like those three disc CD players with the detachable speakers and I remember turning up Jurassic Park.

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Oh, it was beautiful. Such an epic soundtrack. Oh my word, yes. I love them. My kids love it.

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I actually play it for them and they love it too, so there's that. But otherwise, other than that, I definitely fell into the alternative rock genre.

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I had a rock band at the time my parents didn't know about, so I was listening to all the stuff. Oh, here it comes.

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This is coming out now. You failed to mention that last episode. Oh, did I? Did I? I forgot to mention. Hey, we're from Seattle.

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I feel like that was the thing. Oh, yeah. Nirvana? Sneaking. Sneaking. Weezer. Oh, yeah.

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Weezer. Radiohead. I actually know Weezer. Modest Mouse. Weezer and I, we hung out.

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Yeah, we hung out a little bit. Back in the day, I hung out with some people who are actually famous now.

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I never quite got there, but Weezer actually was in Michigan when I met them. They were doing a show at a

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Harmony House. You guys remember that, when they sold music in malls? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. They were at a

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Harmony House and I met them there and we hung out and we got to know each other and stuff like that. We did some little shows together and stuff.

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That's awesome. Yeah. That makes our Northwest hearts very, very happy. There you go. Yeah. That's fantastic.

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As a timeframe, this was, they were promoing Pinkerton, their second studio album after the

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Blue Album, but nobody should be listening to most of that, so, yeah.

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Sorry. That's on me. Yeah. What in the world? Anyway, that was - You're singing the sweater song right now.

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I have zero regrets. All right. Now, let's say - I was actually singing

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Float On, but okay. Okay. Well, great. Great. Awesome. That's fantastic. All right. Let's go ahead and let's be serious.

08:26

Focus. Focus. Here we go. We're going to be serious now. Okay. At least try to. Let's go ahead and jump into the material today.

08:34

I'm being told that my internet connection is unstable, so hopefully we don't break up too much, but stick with me, you guys. It'll clear up in a minute.

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All right. Let's say that our listeners have been listening to the show, okay, and they have used the tech reset to determine if their family's tool and jewel tech are being used in a healthy way, aka not listening to Weezer.

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Of course, by healthy, what we really mean is in a Christ -honoring way that is going to build us up and help us to mature in godliness as opposed to tearing us down, stuff that's going to help us be conformed into the image of Christ.

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However, these same listeners, during the process, they discovered that there is definitely some unhealthy not -Christ -honoring tech usage going on in their home, and they believe in what we talked about last time, this idea of radical amputation, because it's a very biblical concept, and they are ready to cut out the tech that's creating the problem, quote -unquote.

09:24

Now, I've heard enough of your content, and I know enough of the scripture to know there's a really dangerous temptation that may enter the situation at this point for most parents.

09:32

I think it's a temptation to take a machete to the problem without actually recognizing what the problem is, so what guidance would you guys give to parents when they've recognized that tech use is a problem, and now they're trying to figure out every way they can of putting filters on the internet and getting rid of tech left and right, and if we become

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Amish, everything's going to be okay? What do you guys say to parents like that? Well, I think we have a couple little pieces we want to address with that, and one, just to start, is to come at it, if you're a single parent or you're married and you're making these decisions,

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I think the first place to start is from a place of prayer, and with your spouse or by yourself saying, okay,

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Lord, I need strength and wisdom as I execute this plan that we're trying to implement.

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Our kids are still pretty little, but I know a lot of our big parenting transitions go a lot better when we are a united front enforcing this new transition, and when

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I'm ready to go in strong, right? I can't halfway take away, this is a very juvenile example, but with our baby, okay, we're going to get rid of the bottle, we're going to get rid of the binky,

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I can't halfway do that. If I'm not committed to this fight and we're not a unified, this is it, we're going to do it, and we're going to go after this thing that we see as a problem in our house, we got to be on the same page and be ready to go.

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I feel like the parents we've talked to that struggle are not in that place, and then they're trying halfway remove some of the tech.

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Maybe good intentions of like, we know we need to get rid of video games, we know we need to remove this app, whatever it is, but they're maybe not, they don't have their heart in the fight to go after it, because it's not going to be easy.

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Okay, so you're saying that maybe one or both of them is kind of half -hearted, they're not 100 % sold, or are you talking about a situation where one person is completely sold, this is what we have to do, and the other one's not so sure?

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Yes. I think both of those happen. Yeah, yeah, like one, I think it's important for spouses to be like, is everybody on the same page here?

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Right? Because if I'm just the one going after the video games, and dad's over in the corner like sneaking his games, and the kids know if I go ask dad, that's sending a very mixed message.

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For moms who are gaming, we know you're out there, so this isn't just coming after dads here. Yes, but whatever the situation is,

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I think we need to be united on it, and then also just ready to, it's going to be, there's going to be pushback, so just to be ready for that, and to know this isn't going to be one conversation, one time, and we're done, and I don't have to deal with this again, it's going to be, there's going to be some struggle.

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Yeah, and that really is why, I mean, today we're talking about the family tech framework, and that's why we made this resource for families, was we don't want this conversation to be, well, we're going to give you all the ammunition you need to win this fight, and somehow you're going to now step out and fix your kid through proper tech management.

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That's not what Proverbs 22 .6 is talking about. When it says, raise your child up in the way they should go, we're talking about modeling that, and that's going to start with humility first.

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So when Jesus, we talked last time about removing the log from your own eye so you can help with the spec, we need to recognize that we need

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Jesus. Maybe it's not in the area of tech, but the need is the same. And then when we help our child, the purpose of the reset isn't,

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I'm going to go find the tech that bothers me most, and this is just my excuse to go after it, right? It's not a warrant, right?

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This isn't your opportunity to go and meddle in their life. It's looking at your child and going, man, I can see these specific things impact these specific areas, and now

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I'm operating out of hope. Now the steps I take, sure, maybe cutting off radical amputation may be a thing, but now that's out of love, not out of punishment, right?

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I didn't just cut off your hand because you bother me. As a certain old Disney movie said,

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I didn't cut off your hand because I didn't like your face. Or no, they cut off your ear because they don't like your face.

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It's not in the new version. It's not in the new version. No, it's not. I cut it off because it was very not PC. It's not okay.

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But the idea is that sometimes we... Oh, but sometimes we do that as parents, right?

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Like you're making me mad, so I'm taking this thing away. And we just need to recognize that your anger is okay because often it's because your child is giving up some part of their potential or stepping away from who they could be in Christ.

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That anger is all right, but let's make sure we direct that back to what's our end game here? Where do we want to point our child?

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It's not just about crush this problem in front of me, which is your child. It's let's lift my child back out of the mud and put them in front of Jesus and reestablish that relationship and that hope there.

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So that's the reason for the framework. So incredibly important. And that's what I try to do in counseling as well, one -on -one, realizing that technology is not the problem.

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Your child is not the problem. Sin is the problem. We always have to address that. And of course, we definitely want to put up roadblocks.

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We want to put up things that make it hard to do wrong and easy to do right. But a lot of times it's just so much easier to say, okay, we're becoming

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Amish. All the technology is gone and we think we fixed the problem, but we didn't. We didn't even start addressing it.

14:50

Okay. So let's get back to this fictional family, right? They've recognized that there are issues. They understand that the real heart of the issue is an issue of the heart.

14:58

Okay. They recognize that and that's good. And so they've been addressing that in their family, but they also want to put off the unhealthy tech use as well as put on the healthy tech use.

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They want to be balanced. And yet they've hit a brick wall. Okay. They know something's wrong because they've seen the calamitous effects in their, like the reset, right?

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Relationships, enjoyment, sleep, emotions, and time, but they don't really know what the right balance is.

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They're renewing their minds according to God's word to see the situation through God's eyes, but they don't really know what they need to put on.

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They don't really even know how to take the first steps. And as you've already mentioned, you have this amazing tool called the

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Family Tech Framework that helps people take those next steps in achieving Christ honoring tech use in their home.

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So will you talk to us about that? What is the Family Tech Framework? Yeah. Do you, do you want to start on this or should

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I? I can give a little overview and then you dive in.

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I think the framework is a tool to navigate a conversation with your family to establish like a baseline.

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It's not meant to be something that just mom and dad do. And then you bring it to the kids and say, here are the new rules.

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Maybe if you are starting out and you have babies and you want to have a game plan ahead of time for your tech, even for your toddlers, that would obviously be a conversation just for parents.

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But I think as early as early elementary school, we can start involving our kids in these conversations and not that they're going to have the final say and get to make all of the rules, but especially as our kids get older, it's so important for them to feel like they're an actual part of the conversation.

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So the framework is somewhere to kind of just establish some norms for what is tech use going to look like in our house.

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Yeah. Yeah. And that really was the heartbeat behind this resource and why we're so excited that it's a thing now is

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I'm, so I'm going to, I'm going to actually hold this little booklet up. So this is the booklet that goes with it. So it's not very thick.

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It's not intended to be intimidating. What it's intended to be is really two things. The first part is it gives the parents an opportunity to set kind of common language.

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So it walks through the tool and the drool tech for your family. And you'll actually assess like how much tool tech and drool tech do

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I use in a day? Like just really practical stuff. And then the second half is actually we're going to make a framework and the framework based on the research that I've read really needs to cover six areas.

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It needs to cover the ground rules. So this is where we connect it practically. So we know what the gospel is.

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We know what our technology is, but how are those two going to tie in? Well, you're going to go through Ephesians two, one through 10 and go, all right, we're sinners.

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What does that mean in light of our tech? Right. We've been redeemed for a purpose. What does that mean in light of our tech? Like that's kind of the ground rules piece.

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All the rules apply to all family members. That's going to be a key ground rule because we're all sinners and we all need this in our lives.

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So parents aren't somehow, you know, getting diplomatic immunity because, well, I'm an adult and you can do this too when you're an adult.

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Like there might be different expectations because, well, mom and dad probably need to see each other. So they might stay up later than 830, right?

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Like there are those things, but the general understanding, like dad can't be unhealthy, mom can't be unhealthy.

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They can't be on social media at dinner. The gospel foundation needs to be the same. Needs to be the same. So then we go to the time.

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So not just when are we going to use it, but how often, how much, those expectations need to be set.

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We need to establish the place. Where can we use tech? Does it change when we go to a friend's house? Does it change when we go to school?

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Does it change when we're on vacation? Like we need to talk about that stuff. We need to talk about our priorities. So if family time is important to us, where does that show up in our calendar, right?

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Where does that show up with our resources? Like where are we making space for these things that we say matter more than tech, but tech magically is seeping into all these cracks because we're not prioritizing what is important.

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Our content, we need a Philippians 4, 8, that stuff, right? So when we watch our shows or we play our games or we listen to our music or we're on social media, right?

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None of those are bad in and of themselves, but there comes this place where like, man, that doesn't line up with what the

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Bible says we should be setting our minds on. That isn't, that doesn't line up with things of the spirit, right? That is things of the flesh and having those conversations is going to be critical.

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And then finally, we need to talk about safety. If we're giving our kids access to the internet, we need to talk about bullies.

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We need to talk about pornography. We need to talk about depression. We need to talk about suicidal ideations and self -harm and just generally this idea of a broken world and how can we be a resource, right?

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How can we be someone who acts in hope towards people who are unhealthy and hopeless? And what does the gospel look like in that?

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So not that I have to go save anyone, but I need to, I need to know what I need to do, right? When I see this stuff, who do

19:35

I go tell? How can I do it? So that's the second part of the framework. And again, I would go ahead in here real quick because you just said something that's really important.

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Listen, Nathan and Anna do a fantastic job of doing their research. And I'll tell you what, really this device right here is so much identical to a drug, okay?

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When you're using it, like, oh, this is so good. This is, I love it. It's so helpful. It's so productive. Everyone else loves it.

19:59

Everyone else talks about how many days go by without you using the words Facebook or Google. I mean, really, it's all out there and we all like, this is okay.

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But real research is being done, okay? Real studies are being published that are showing exactly how destructive these can be specifically in the lives of younger children.

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So all those things that Nathan just mentioned, so incredibly important. We can't just sit back foolishly and say, oh, it's not a problem.

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It totally is a problem. And it's not just about pornography and bullying on the internet, it's about the fact that these things can have a dramatic effect on you psychologically, a dramatic effect on you even physically.

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And so one of the things I love about the Gospel Tech podcast is the fact that by going and listening to it, you don't have to go and do all the research.

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Nathan and Anna are really fantastic in delivering it to you and helping to inform you. And so I love that you guys are doing that for us.

20:51

Thank you. Thank you. And yes, I'm trying not to too deep dive, but a lot of that is in here, and it's in there's little three to five minute videos then that you'll watch and you'll apply.

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And so that's kind of the idea behind this resource is to be, I kind of see it as the gym where you can go with your family, you can fight for them, not just with them about technology, right?

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So now we're showing up together. We have a common goal. It's always to point our eyes back to the

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Gospel, back to Jesus, and let that kind of seep into the un -Gospel parts of our hearts.

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And that's really the point of this framework is that, and those are just happen to be the six areas that I would strongly encourage families to do that in.

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But like we said earlier, isn't it just easier if we just kind of like tell our family what to do? This is what we're going to do.

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And the answer is it might be easier, but it doesn't make it right. Having the family on the same page, being able to talk about this, onboarding people is so super important.

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You can tell your kids, don't do this, or you can show your kids the truth and encourage them to interact with it and then have them go, wow, we probably shouldn't do that.

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And that is so much better, such a better way to go for us parents. So I think you've already answered this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway, just so I didn't miss anything, because I want everyone to understand this is not just, this is a process.

22:09

Okay. It kind of steps you through having this family tech framework. Why is it so helpful for our family to truly be successful?

22:18

What are we missing out on if we don't go through either your family tech framework or our own version of it?

22:23

What are we going to miss out on? I think the default in our culture is it's just easy to hand our kids tech and it's easy to hand over an iPad.

22:34

It's easy to hand over the phone. And like you were saying, these devices have a real impact on the conditions of our hearts and our brains.

22:43

There is a lot of research that shows, especially in young children, but I'd say probably all the way through the brain is developing at 25, that their brains are so malleable that every decision that they make and every time they pick tech over picking something else, that little pathway is getting carved out in their brain, right?

23:05

So every time I decide I'm just going to watch a show or I want to just play on the iPad because that is what

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I want to do right now, like, okay, that's fine. But now that pathway is getting established and that is going to be the easier choice because that's where those little circuits are going.

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And as opposed to if we pick a more enriching activity of, okay, I'm going to learn how to read or now

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I like reading, every time I choose reading, that pathway is getting established. And obviously, this extends to much more than just screens and reading, like we can carve pathways in our brains for anything.

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And I think we're just missing and forfeiting a lot of opportunities for relationship development, for spiritual development, for connection when we choose the path of least resistance with tech.

23:52

Yeah. And I'm, all right, I'm going to try to keep this short. I get fired up about this because this is really like the, this is the reason we've made

24:01

Gospel Tech a primary focus right now is because this isn't being said in a way that's helpful.

24:07

There's a lot of stuff out there that'll make you very scared of technology. And basically, like, if you watch The Social Dilemma, it's a ton of truth and not a lot of help.

24:14

You just kind of like, oh my goodness, like, let's throw this stuff in a lake. We are in so much trouble.

24:19

We are in so much trouble, which isn't wrong. Like that's, that's accurate. It is an accurate picture of what's going on, but there's no hope step.

24:26

And so the reason we're doing this is when Anna mentioned, like your brains are malleable, here's where we're coming from.

24:32

So in the 1940s, a guy named Dr. Donald Hebb established what's now known as the

24:38

Hebbian theory of learning. And the idea is that neurons that fire together, wire together. Fast forward 70 some odd years, and we now know that there is this idea of neuroplasticity, that you become good at the stuff you do repeatedly.

24:50

So what your coach used to tell you, or what your PE teacher used to tell you, that practice makes permanent. That actually is backed up by science to an extent, not permanent in a you can never change, but permanent as in you do it once, it becomes really easy to do.

25:04

The idea of like walking through a field. If you walk through a field of tall grass once, you'll see your footsteps for maybe the rest of the day.

25:10

If you walk through it 100 times in a week, that's going to last for a while, right? And if you go through it with a flamethrower, that's going to be a really permanent scar, which would be a concept for later when we talk about game design and some of the things we're doing.

25:24

There are flamethrowers in some of our tech. You team that kind of information with something like B .F.

25:31

Skinner's operant conditioning. He trained a rat to press a lever on command. He trained a pigeon to play ping pong.

25:38

And the idea is you give a carrot or a stick if I were to really dumb this down. But this is exactly what a lot of our technology does.

25:45

It's the reason for the like button. It's the reason for infinite scroll. It's the reason for levels in video games. It's the reason for leaderboards.

25:51

It's the reason for pay to play. It's actually the reason slot machines work. It's the entire basic premise behind most of our apps and most of our games and actually quite a few of our shows now, especially as they get more interactive.

26:03

So when we're talking about this, we're saying we need to be intentional, not fearful, but aware, right?

26:10

This would be the wisest serpents, innocent as doves. We don't need to go spot the devil under every rock, but we also don't need to make excuses for some of our poor behavior and some of the things that are distracting us.

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We need to be humble. We need to prayerfully approach this in light of the gospel and allow God to shine a light in the areas we're not healthy.

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And as our families, really the only way to approach this conversation, hopefully, is with the gospel.

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It's the only way to not get crazy freaked out because when you get close to God, the light of God exposes this stuff in our lives.

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And we realize like, man, that used to be super important to me. I used to think I was going to get my identity or my purpose or my value or my love, right, from this thing, whether that be technology or something else.

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And now in light of the gospel, like I realize that's a lie. Like I need to pursue

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God with everything. And then from that, I can go use whatever he's allowing me to use, right, through my conscience, reading the scripture and listening to the

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Holy Spirit. So I think that's why we need a family framework, whether it's ours or someone else's.

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Again, when we went out and looked at family frameworks, we didn't find one to point people to. We're like, these are terrible.

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Like, so that's why we made one was because there was this whole, like, we didn't magically have this great idea. It's just,

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I feel like we were able to find like some list of rules or like a contract, but they're not the why are we doing this and where's the heart change coming from.

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Which to Christians is the ultimate thing. It's the thing where the motivation is the deepest, most important thing that we need to address with ourselves and with our kids.

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So I love that. Now, before I continue, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Skinner train one of his pigeons to actually beat

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GoldenEye? Wasn't that a thing? I hope so. That would be science well spent if that happened.

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Did you ever beat it? Like, was the pigeon, did he beat you or no? I don't know. Yeah, he definitely, he would beat me at GoldenEye. I didn't say it was good.

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I just said I liked it. And the reason I think that this is so incredibly important and valuable to have this family tech framework, really, it's exactly the type of thing that we're always talking about on the show, okay?

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Being intentional, premeditated, disciple -making, ambassador parents. You have to have a plan.

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No parent improvises well, okay? We just don't. We need to have a plan. But this still, though, is really, as we're talking about, really only one side of the equation, okay?

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The family tech framework will assist in educating the family and helping you all have a singular conversation that creates space for discipleship, more conversations, and planning.

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But what do you do when you realize that once you cut out all the unhealthy tech, you have all this time with which you don't know what to do?

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Well, on the fourth and final part of this interview, we're going to talk about analog adventures, what they are, how they work, why they're so important, and how you can create them for your family.

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Nathan and Anna, thank you so much for coming back on the show to help us understand the value of a family tech framework. And thank you for the time, really.

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You've invested in creating the Gospel Tech Online Workshop to help families like mine love God and use tech.

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Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us. Now, once again, I need to encourage all of you listeners, please follow the links in the description of this episode to learn more about the

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Gospel Tech Online Workshop. And then I encourage you to use the link at TruthLoveParent .com to purchase it for 50 % off.

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But if you're interested in trying to win it first, head over to TruthLoveParent .com forward slash giveaways to learn more.

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But I will give you a hint. You're going to need to be a follower of TLP on Facebook, Instagram, and or Twitter.

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So that's the first step. And then all the other requirements are so easy. You'll have your name entered in the drawing in no time, and you can enter your name up to three times.

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Now, Flint and Iron and the Gospel Tech Podcast, Evermind Ministries, and the Truth Love Parent and Celebration of God Podcast exist to help you and your family be everything

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God called and created you to be. So make sure you subscribe everywhere you can, consume the material, and then really most importantly, put it to use in your home as you parent your kids to life and godliness.