WWUTT 575 Q&A Woman Caught in Pneumatology Tattoos?

Does the story of the woman caught in adultery in John chapter 8 not belong in the Bible?

What does the Bible say about getting tattoos? And can we worship with somebody who has a different pneumatology?

The answer to these questions when we understand the text. You are listening to When We Understand The Text, a daily study of the

Word of God so we might know the mind of God. Find all our videos at our website www .utt

.com. Now here's your host Pastor Gabe. Thank you Becky. You're welcome. And the first question we have to respond to today actually has to do with the most recent what video.

But before we get to that I wanted to make an appeal to the listeners for financial support.

Oh yes. So at the church we had a rough November. Actually we came out of November $300 in the black.

That's not great. No. That's tight. Especially when you consider that December is usually a pretty tight month for our church.

The months of June and December in particular are when we have the most number of deployments or families that will be moving and then new families moving in.

Right. And so when those new families come in they don't quite feel at home yet to start giving or contributing to the church offering.

And so we generally have kind of a lag in the finances. So given that November was so tight

I would like to ask for your financial support to when we understand the text. When you donate it goes to our church which is a non -profit ministry.

It doesn't come to Becky or myself. Right. Becky or I. It doesn't come to Becky or me. That's it.

Yes. That's the correct. Becky or me. Okay. She's the one with the teaching degree so she can tell me when

I'm being correct in my English. Now I've placed a big target on you.

Oh dear. If you would consider a gift to the ministry you could send a check to First Southern Baptist Church 1220

West 8th Street Junction City Kansas 66441 and you'll make the check out to First Southern Baptist Church.

Right. Or you could donate online. If you want to donate with a check or a credit card via the internet go to our website www .utt

.com and you have that menu bar across the top of the page in the top right corner. And we've been calling it the give tab.

Yeah. We've been saying it's the give tab. But it says contact. Right. So if you click on contact it's got the church address there as well.

So you could send a check that way. Or click on the I think Simple Give is the name of the ministry that we use to receive donations online.

So you could give that way www .utt .com click on contact and that will that's the location where you could make a donation to the ministry.

And it would be greatly appreciated. Yes. Consider a Christmas gift. Yes. To when we understand the text.

And our church sees that giving whenever we do our quarterly meetings and we review the budget and things like that.

So members of our congregation know that there are listeners around the world who have supported this ministry.

And so we thank you so much for that. And helping us kind of pick up the slack when we hit these down months with families going out and new families coming in.

And don't forget giving to your own church especially. We don't want to take away from you doing that. Yeah no please.

So you should have your own local congregation that you're a part of that you are giving to. But if you have some extra then that you could contribute to this ministry we would receive it with Thanksgiving.

Yes. Every time you share a video online or you share a podcast episode or you tell a friend about us.

Those ways are how you can support this ministry as well. Just by word of mouth. And so we thank you for your continued generosity to the ministry of when we understand the text which we've always provided for free.

Yes. And as long as I can help it it will always be free. Amen. So we just posted a new video yesterday and it was related to the story in John chapter 8 verses 1 through 11 about the woman who was caught in the act of adultery.

She was brought before Jesus. The Pharisees said the law says such a woman is supposed to be stoned.

What do you say Jesus. And we just did a video about that. So here's the video and then the question related to the video will follow.

In John 8 we read the story of a woman caught in the act of adultery and she was brought before Jesus. The Pharisees said teacher

Moses commanded us to stone such women. What do you say. They were trying to trap him. If he said let her go he'd be ignoring the law of Moses.

But if he said stone her he'd be going against Rome and that would get him in trouble with the Romans. Jesus responded by writing on the ground with his finger when they continued to press him he stood up and said let him who's without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.

Upon hearing this the Pharisees left and Jesus said woman where are they. Has no one condemned you.

She said no one Lord. And he said neither do I condemn you. Now go and sin no more. This story is commonly used to say no one is without sin therefore no one has any right to judge.

But Jesus just said a few verses before to judge with right judgment. When Jesus said let him who is without sin be the first to cast the stone he was saying which one among you is the dude she had adultery with.

According to Leviticus 2010 he's supposed to be stoned with her. Having been exposed that they were ignorant of the law the

Pharisees hightailed it out of there. Jesus the author of the law represented by him writing on the ground with his finger forgave the woman and told her not to sin anymore.

However there's a problem with this story. John didn't write it and your Bible will tell you that.

John 7 53 through 8 11 didn't appear in any of the earliest manuscripts and some put it in the book of Luke.

It's a nice story but it doesn't belong in the Bible. The greatest story of love and forgiveness is found at the cross of Christ when we understand the text.

So you're saying it doesn't belong in the Bible? That's right. Doesn't belong in the Bible. Okay. And this question comes from Jesse who says hey

Pastor Gabe first I want to say how much I love this ministry that you your wife and anyone else who helps you put it together.

Was that the correct way I worded that sentence? Anyway he loves the ministry. I can't tell you how helpful your videos have been.

I have recently discovered your podcast which has been very awesome a great way to start the day when driving to work.

Thank you so much and more importantly praise God. Amen. Soli Deo Gloria. Amen. I have some questions about your latest video let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I really did enjoy the video and it was as always very informative. I was wondering about your comment near the end.

It's a nice story but it has no original authorship and doesn't belong in the Bible. I didn't know that it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts so that was good to learn and see.

However I am unsure how to process what we do with that text then. Can we still use this text when studying the

Bible or on topics similar to this passage? Does the passage fall under what 2nd Timothy 3 .16

states that all scripture is God breathed? Or should we read this knowing that it was added much later and not allow this passage to be foundational when studying topics like what this passage talks about?

I hope my questions were clear and thank you again for all the work that you do. Blessings to you all.

I do not believe that this passage should received as something that is God breathed.

So just like it says in 2nd Timothy 3 .16 that all scripture is God breathed. We can only say that about the text that we know appeared in the original manuscripts.

That the original authors or what's called the original autographs were divinely inspired.

They were the word of God that was given to them to write down. But this story appears probably hundreds of years after that.

So we can't consider it God breathed scripture. So in your Bible when you go to John 8 verses 1 -11 it says it's got it in brackets it'll say the earliest manuscripts do not include 753 -811 and I believe that's in just about every

Bible that you own except the King James Bible. Oh really? I think that's the only place where that's not found.

And this is a hot button issue among King James only us. So they're probably fuming about this video right now.

Those who had seen it anyway. So your Bible will say there will be some sort of a note in there that will tell you that it didn't appear in the earliest manuscripts.

Now let me give you my theory as to where this text came from. There are different scholars that will say different things and I am not a

Greek scholar. But here's my theory. The earliest Greek manuscripts of the book of John would be

P66 and P75 the letter P stands for papyrus because that's what it was written on. And this story in John 753 -811 does not appear in any of those manuscripts.

In fact it doesn't come about until maybe about the third or fourth century that it starts showing up.

Oh wow. It isn't considered to be in canon until Jerome's Latin Vulgate which would have been in the latter part of the fourth century.

Now you've done this with the kids, the timeline with the kids. So could you tell me exactly when the

Latin Vulgate was? Oh I just know in the timeline where it's at. Oh in the order in the timeline. But not the year.

No. I think it's 383. I can go look. I don't remember that.

I have the resource. I don't remember that exactly. This particular section of scripture is called the Pericope Adulterae and it appears in four different places in the earliest appearances of this particular story.

It's in this location in John also after John 21 -25, after Luke 21 -38, and after Luke 24 -53.

Now there was a fellow by the name of Papias who in about 110 AD wrote a work called the

Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord, but we don't have any record of that work. So you can't go to the

Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord written by Papias and find evidence that this story is there. However Eusebius in the fourth century mentioned that Papias wrote about this story in his work

Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord. And so the likelihood is that this story was an oral tradition, but it was never written down.

So none of the apostles wrote it. It is not written scripture. It was just an oral tradition that was trying to find a home somewhere in the scripture.

Because it's a great story. Everybody loves the story of the woman who was caught in the act of adultery and Jesus making fools out of the

Pharisees and then forgiving the woman and telling her to go and sin no more. Everybody loves this story. And so it likely was this way with the oral traditions as well.

We love this oral tradition. Why isn't this in the Gospels somewhere? Why isn't it in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John, any of their written accounts of the ministry of Jesus?

And so somebody down the road thought, well, let's put it in there somewhere because it's such a great story and we want to have it in the written tradition.

So let's put it in there. And so that's why you find in those earliest manuscripts it popping up in four different locations.

It was not written by John or Luke, but you will find it in four different places in John or Luke.

Oh, interesting. So traditionally, because of the Latin Vulgate, we have it where it's located in John 7 into John 8.

Now if you were to ignore that that is there, so you take out John 7 .53

through 8 .11 and you read John 7 into John 8 without the story of the woman caught in adultery, the text flows way better.

Oh, really? With that story in there, it totally breaks up the flow of John. So even using your

Bible, your modern day English Bible, you can tell that story doesn't fit.

It just breaks up the narrative in John. So you'll have to try that to take a look at it when you test it in study later.

Yeah. Yeah. There you go, listeners. You can test yourself and see that story just doesn't fit in John. But your

Bible will tell you, unless you're reading a King James Bible, it will say that the earliest manuscripts don't include it.

I believe even the New King James Bible mentions early manuscripts don't have this story.

Therefore it's not divinely inspired text. It was oral tradition. And it may have actually happened.

It may be a true story. We just can't actually account for it being scripture inspired by the

Holy Spirit because it wasn't written by those who wrote the New Testament. Now when it comes to preaching this text, because I had a couple of questions about this.

I posted this on Twitter and Facebook as well. When it comes to preaching this text, should we just skip over it?

Since it's not God -breathed, therefore can you truly preach this text?

Well, I kind of did in the video. I went about doing the exegesis to explain what was happening in the narrative.

But I'm using texts from other places in the Bible to explain what's going on. If it was something like a text that was inserted in there and you're going,

I just can't make sense out of this whatsoever, then I would say, yeah, you could omit it and not preach it.

But I think as long as you're preaching it in light of what texts say elsewhere, then you're still explaining it according to what the

Bible says about what's happening in the story, even if the story itself, which is a narrative, didn't actually occur, whether or not it actually occurred.

So you're using scripture to interpret what's not scripture. Right. Instead of using scripture to interpret scripture, you're using scripture to explain something that isn't scripture.

And I would still go ahead and preach it simply because I don't want somebody to stumble. There are people that may not understand things about early manuscripts, how we came about the

Bible, original Greek, all these kinds of things. And so when they hear you say this doesn't belong in the

Bible, they're going to go, did he just say there's something that doesn't belong in the inerrant word of God?

Right. Oh, no. Doesn't Revelation 22 say, if you take anything out of the book, then I'll remove from you the tree of life, you know, so so somebody might stumble if I if I just stand up and say this doesn't belong there.

So therefore, I'm not going to preach on it. And there there are some that have that conviction. And you can still use the

Bible to verify that that, you know, could have happened. Right. The story doesn't like it's heresy.

No. Yeah. It doesn't contradict. Thank you. That's what I'm looking for. The character of Jesus. Right. So we can verify

Jesus very likely would have responded this way to this particular story. In fact,

R .C. Sproul, when he teaches on this particular passage, he even gets a little bit more extra biblical than I did in my explanation in the video, because he goes into what would

Jesus have said about this particular situation and kind of, you know, theorizes how

Jesus might have responded based on what Jesus says in other places in the text. So R .C. Sproul has a good message on this on this particular passage as well.

But like I said, there are some teachers out there who are so convicted that this is not God breathed scripture that they won't preach on it at all.

And that's probably why if you have an ESV study Bible, it says in the study notes at the bottom that this is not a text that comes from the original manuscripts.

The original manuscripts don't have evidence of this text. And so, therefore, there are no notes in your

ESV study Bible on John 7, 53 through 8, 11. They just don't even bother to offer any notes on that section because it's not considered

God breathed scripture. And so there are some preachers that feel that way, too. I'm not going to preach on it because it wasn't breathed out by God.

I would go ahead and preach on it as long as I'm using other scriptures to explain what's happening here.

But then I'm going to explain this is not in the original manuscripts.

And there are two occasions that I can think of in the seven years that I've preached that I've been preaching where I did reference this text.

And both times I said, this is not in the earliest manuscripts. So it probably doesn't belong in the

Bible. I think at the time I said it probably doesn't belong in the Bible. I've never actually taught through John, at least from the pulpit before.

But if I got to that, the way that I would preach it wouldn't be too much different than what's in the what video.

It would just be 45 minutes instead of a minute and a half.

So anyway, I hope that answers your question, Jessie. And like I said, my theory on the text is that it was an oral tradition people loved, tried to find a home for it in the scripture.

It ended up in four different places. And traditionally where it's ended up now is John 7, 53 through chapter 8, verse 11.

If you go to our website, www .utt .com, you'll notice that there's transcripts for all the videos.

That's what pops up first when you come to the page. So at the time of this recording, the first transcript that you're going to see is this most recent video.

In that transcript, there is a link to an interview with Dr. James White that he had on Apologia Radio, or sorry,

Apologia Radio. You actually pronounce the word Apologia, but they say Apologia.

But anyway. You do that every time. I think I do. I think I do. Anyway, go to that transcript and click on that link, and you can watch a longer interview with somebody who is more scholarly and more expert than I am explaining this particular text, how it came about, how we're supposed to argue for or against it, that sort of a thing.

Anyway, Dr. James White does a pretty thorough explanation of that. All right, this next question comes from Daryl.

He says, hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky. I hope you are feeling much better. You sounded like you were having a pretty rough day on Tuesday's podcast.

Yeah. I think I only went like 12 minutes. Poor guy. It was 13. Well, 13 minutes.

Okay. Thank you. But that's including the intro and the outro. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I think it was 14. Anyway. I think I only recorded like a dozen minutes or something like that.

That's as long as my voice could go. I couldn't make it go any longer. And even then, I paused it several times and coughed.

Yeah. So you might have noticed some edits in there, trying to blur everything together. I have a simple question that seems to be a pretty controversial topic.

Is getting a tattoo sinful? I've heard arguments from both sides of this topic, and I'm undecided on what to believe.

I have a tattoo of a cross on my arm from when I was 19, long before I was ever convicted of sin. I personally don't feel convicted that I have it.

And I actually would like to get another one in remembrance of a good friend of mine that passed away. I just want to know beforehand, if I would be sinning by getting another one,

I would like to know your view on this subject. So Becky, is it a sin to have a tattoo or not?

Mmmmm. No. Why am I asking you that question?

I don't know. Why are you? Between my wife and I, we have two.

Yes. Two tattoos. Mm -hmm. And she has them both. Yes. I do, though.

I've never had a tattoo. I have no desire to get one. And if you have them, that's fine.

I don't see any reason why you would have to go and get them removed. Right. And that seems to be the question that I field more often than, is it okay if I get a tattoo?

Usually the question is, I have a tattoo. What should I do with it? You know? You lame it? I mean, unless it's something that's extremely vulgar and it's in view where everybody else can see it.

Right. Right. There have been a few. There have been a few that come about that way. Here is the passage of scripture that I've used to explain that.

And this doesn't have exactly to do with tattoos. Mm -hmm. I know in Leviticus it says, thou shalt not get a tattoo, but not exactly that way.

But that's a completely different context. It was talking about, don't look like the pagans in the land that you live with.

And somebody might take that and go, well, yeah, but it's a bunch of pagans around here wearing tattoos. True. That's up to you.

That's up to your convictions there. Here's the passage of scripture I've used to explain this.

And it doesn't exactly have to do with tattoos, but I think it's relevant. So this is 1 Corinthians 7, starting in verse 17.

Let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which

God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised?

Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised?

Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.

Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. Were you a bondservant when called?

Then do not be concerned about it, but if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity. For he who was called in the

Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise, he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ.

You were bought with a price. Do not become bondservants of men. So brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.

And so here's how I've applied that text to getting tattoos. If you had tattoos before you became a

Christian, there's no reason to have to try to remove them, and don't feel like you're obligated to do so. But if you are now a

Christian and you're asking whether or not you should get more tattoos, my advice would be don't. Remain as you are.

There are other ways to spend the money. Yeah, because tattoos are expensive. They are expensive.

But I mean like... You could give money to when we understand the text. No, no. That's not what

I was going for. In remembrance of your friend, you can donate to World Vision or something like that that will have a lifetime effect on somebody who's in need, and you can do that in their name.

And that way, you still have the permanence of that and the remembrance.

And they even send you like... Sometimes they'll send you a picture of how you're offering help to them and that sort of thing.

That would be something that you could hold on to and look at, you know, and show people.

Right. So you're responding to doing something in memory of a person.

Yeah. Yeah, right. And so rather than getting a tattoo, donating money to a ministry in their name.

Right. And then they'll send you a letter as to how that money worked. And then that way you're not just helping yourself and your memories and everything like that, but you're also helping somebody else.

Contributing to somebody else in someone's memory. Yeah. That's great. I think that's a great idea. Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

So anyway, there you got a couple of answers for you. How you can honor a person's memory in a right and God -honoring way, and also whether or not you should get a tattoo.

Right. So you got answers to both issues. So I hope that that was beneficial to you, Daryl. And thank you for sending in your question.

So again, my personal advice is that you not get any more tattoos. I think that there's a huge craze to get tattoos, and it's really a

Western world phenomenon. If you can resist, remain as you are when you were called.

Okay, last question that we have here comes from Patrick, and he says, Hi, Pastor Gabe. A few weeks ago,

I listened to your podcast where you suggested a number of websites for good worship music. Do you remember that one?

I do remember that one. A few weeks back. One of them is sovereigngrace .com. I've checked out some of their music, and I really like it.

As I've studied and researched much of the popular Christian music out there today, I've become more aware of the lack of, or just plain bad, theology in much of the music put out nowadays.

Good job. So thank you for covering this topic and giving some resources to check out that are sound doctrinally.

I wish I had gone back to that episode and grabbed those resources again. I don't have them right here in front of me.

But anyway. You had three. I think it was like four or five. Four? I had quite a few. Yeah, I know City Hymns was one of them.

Sovereign Grace obviously was one of them. Anyway, in researching Sovereign Grace. Seeds Family.

Seeds Family Worship. Yeah, that was one of them too. In researching Sovereign Grace, there was one thing that gave me a little pause.

In their seven shared values, the third value states that they hold to a continuationist pneumatology.

Basically, that means that they still believe in speaking in tongues, miraculous spiritual gifts, things like that.

I would consider myself reformed and cessationist in my theology. In other words, the miraculous spiritual gifts have ceased.

So things like speaking in tongue, miraculous healings, and new prophecy. In the past,

I've listened to many artists and groups that after learning more about them and their beliefs, I now avoid.

So I'm wondering what your take on this would be in terms of the value of continuationist pneumatology of Sovereign Grace Ministries.

Thank you for all that you do with what, and thank you in advance for your time and for considering my question.

Well, Bob Kauflin is the director of Sovereign Grace Music, and I know that he tends to be a little bit charismatic in his theology.

But Bob Kauflin was one of our worship leaders at ShepCon this past February at John MacArthur's church.

Oh, wow. Now, if there is anybody that's opposed to continuationism, it's John MacArthur. Right. And yet Bob Kauflin is regularly one of the invited guests to the

Shepherds Conference to lead worship. And so just because he holds to a continuationist pneumatology, that has not excluded

Mr. Kauflin from leading worship even at John MacArthur's church.

And Dr. MacArthur has said that he's listened to Bob Kauflin's CDs in the car and worshipped along with Sovereign Grace Music.

So he's obviously a very well -received worship leader, even in cessationist circles.

It's a secondary doctrinal issue. It's not an essential doctrinal issue. So I don't think in any way it disqualifies somebody who's a worship leader from being able to worship

God in a right way or excluding us from being able to worship God with them. So if you're listening to somebody who accepts more of a continuationist theology and you're listening to them in your car stereo,

I don't think you should have an attitude of, I don't know, I'm just not connecting with the Spirit with this guy because he's connecting with the

Spirit in a different way than I am because our theology is different. Right. We can all worship together. We hold that Jesus Christ is

Lord of all and through Him our salvation is guaranteed by His death on the cross and resurrection from the grave, that He's ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the throne of God, and is interceding for us.

And it is through Christ that we offer right worship to God. We might have different opinions about the way the

Holy Spirit moves, but all of us who believe in Christ are indwelt with the

Spirit of God so that we might lift up right worship to God. And I think that we can do that regardless of what your belief is on the spiritual gifts.

Nothing else to add? Well, I was just going to say those are the essential doctrines, but you kind of skipped over that.

I skipped over that. I mean, you didn't skip over it. I frolicked through it. You skipped over my opportunity to pitch in and say that.

Well you were fading and I know that we needed to wrap this up because you're just passing out on me over here.

I am tired. She had some smarties. I did. Like the candy smarties. She's a smarty pants anyway, but she had some candy smarties and the sugar was supposed to keep her going.

But we knew we had like a window of 20 to 30 minutes before she hit a sugar crash. So here she is on her crash.

Yes. I'm sorry guys. And we're going to be wrapping up. So thank you so much for your questions. And again, you can submit questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com.

We'll be back again next week. Same bat time. Same bat channel. God willing. Amen.

And we'll resume with our study of First Timothy on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Where are we going in the Old Testament study? Oh, I've got First and Second Chronicles coming up next.

But my study through First Chronicles is going to be different than the way that I went through First and Second Kings.

Because some of First and Second Chronicles is exactly what we read in Kings. So I've got to,

I have to kind of plan ahead and decide we're going to go through this section. So we're going to go through it section by section.

I'm going to skip around a little bit in First and Second Chronicles. I know. It's sad. I'm not going to do entire episodes going through all those names that are listed.

You and the names. Hey, if my name was in the Bible, I would read it every day. Your name is in the

Bible. I know. And she does read it every day. All right.

Let's. I do. Let's pray. And then, and then you may go your merry way.

And enjoy your day. Dear Lord, we thank you so much for your word. And I thank you that it is this word that trains our minds and hearts to be more like Jesus.

And I pray that what we've studied and what we've considered today, we would indeed take seriously as the authority of God on our lives.

Guide us by this, grow us in it, and let us be filled with hope, knowing the promises that have been given to us through your word, that there is an everlasting kingdom that awaits us if we endure in Christ Jesus to the end, all of the things of this world are going to pass away.

It is your eternal kingdom that endures forever. And your word will never end furthermore.

So what we store up in our hearts that we study while we're here in this life is what we will continue to dwell upon for all eternity in the very presence of our

God and King. It's in the name of Christ Jesus we pray. Amen. Amen. I thought you said you were ready.

I am. Uh huh. If I left you too long wherever it was that you were, you were going to fall asleep.

I was up above you. Well good, you didn't have to go far to get my Bible. Live tweet the podcast to stay awake.

Who was that? Hey Mr. Neal. Okay. I'm going to live tweet the podcast.

I have to type and talk at the same time? You know how I am with multitasking. I think they meant live.

Like how you can do the picture, video, or live? No, we would be recording the podcast, but we're live tweeting as we're recording it.

So they're seeing... Are you sure it's not live as in like... No, the tweets would be as we're recording it.

The recording of the podcast itself would not be featured live. That's what live tweet is.

You get what I'm saying? Okay. No, I understand what you're saying. I just thought live...

What's that called whenever you do the... It's just a live stream or a live podcast or something like that.

It's not a live tweet? No. Because somebody will be sitting in a movie theater. See, it says live.

Somebody will sit in a movie theater and they'll live tweet the movie they're watching. You know what I mean? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I gotcha. Well, I know what you're talking about. I just... I thought that was...