WWUTT 575 Q&A Woman Caught in Pneumatology Tattoos?

Does the story of the woman caught in adultery in John chapter 8 not belong in the Bible? What does the Bible say about getting tattoos? And can we worship with somebody who has a different pneumatology?

The answer to these questions when we understand the text.

You are listening to when we understand the text, a daily study of the Word of God, so we might know the mind of God. Find all our videos at our website WWW .WTT .COM. Now here's your host, Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky.

You're welcome.

And the first question we have to respond to today actually has to do with the most recent. What video?

Woohoo!

But before we get to that, I wanted to make an appeal to the listeners for financial support.

Oh, yes.

So at the church, we had a rough November. Actually, we came out of November $300 in the black. That's not great. That's tight. Especially when you consider that December is usually a pretty tight month for our church.

The months of June and December in particular are when we have the most number of deployments or families that will be moving and the new families moving in. And so when those new families come in, they don't quite feel at home yet to start giving or contributing to the church offering.

And so we generally have kind of a lag in the finances. So given that November was so tight, I would like to ask for your financial support to when we understand the text. When you donate, it goes to our church, which is a nonprofit ministry.

It doesn't come to Becky or myself.

Right.

Becky or I. It doesn't come to Becky or me.

That's it.

Yes. That's the correct.

Becky or me.

Okay.

She's the one with the teaching degree, so she can tell me when I'm being correct in my English. Now I've placed a big target on you.

Oh, dear.

If you would consider a gift to the ministry, you could send a check to First Southern Baptist Church, 1220 West 8th Street, Junction City, Kansas, 66441. And you'll make the check out to First Southern Baptist Church.

Right.

Or you could donate online. If you want to donate with a check or a credit card via the Internet, go to our website, www .utt .com. And you have that menu bar across the top of the page in the top right corner.

And we've been calling it the Give tab.

Yeah, we've been saying it's the Give tab, but it says Contact.

Right.

So if you click on Contact, it's got the church address there as well, so you could send a check that way. Or click on the, I think, Simple Give is the name of the ministry that we use to receive donations online.

So you could give that way. Www .utt .com, click on Contact, and that's the location where you could make a donation to the ministry.

And it would be greatly appreciated.

Yes. Consider a Christmas gift.

Yes.

To when we understand the text. And our church sees that giving whenever we do our quarterly meetings and we review the budget and things like that. So members of our congregation know that there are listeners around the world who have supported this ministry.

And so we thank you so much for that and helping us kind of pick up the slack when we hit these down months with families going out and new families coming in. And don't forget giving to your own church, especially.

We don't want to take away from you doing that.

Yeah, no, please.

So you should have your own local congregation that you're a part of that you are giving to. But if you have some extra then that you could contribute to this ministry, we would receive it with Thanksgiving.

Yes.

Every time you share a video online or you share a podcast episode or you tell a friend about us, those ways are how you can support this ministry as well. Just by word of mouth. And so we thank you for your continued generosity to the ministry of when we understand the text, which we've always provided for free.

Yes.

And as long as I can help it, it will always be free.

Amen.

So we just posted a new video yesterday, and it was related to the story in John chapter 8, verses 1 through 11 about the woman who was caught in the act of adultery. She was brought before Jesus. The Pharisees said, the law says such a woman is supposed to be stoned.

What do you say, Jesus? And we just did a video about that. So here's the video. And then the question related to the video will follow. In John 8, we read the story of a woman caught in the act of adultery, and she was brought before Jesus.

The Pharisees said, teacher, Moses commanded us to stone such women. What do you say? They were trying to trap him. If he said, let her go, he'd be ignoring the law of Moses. But if he said stone her, he'd be going against Rome, and that would get him in trouble with the Romans.

Jesus responded by writing on the ground with his finger. When they continued to press him, he stood up and said, let him who's without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her. Upon hearing this, the Pharisees left, and Jesus said, woman, where are they?

Has no one condemned you? She said, no one, Lord. And he said, neither do I condemn you. Now go and sin no more. This story is commonly used to say, no one is without sin, therefore no one has any right to judge.

But Jesus just said a few verses before to judge with right judgment. When Jesus said, let him who is without sin be the first to cast the stone, he was saying, which one among you is the dude she had adultery with?

According to Leviticus 20 .10, he's supposed to be stoned with her. Having been exposed that they were ignorant of the law, the Pharisees hightailed it out of there. Jesus, the author of the law, represented by him writing on the ground with his finger, forgave the woman and told her not to sin anymore.

However, there's a problem with this story. John didn't write it, and your Bible will tell you that. John 7 .53 through 8 .11 didn't appear in any of the earliest manuscripts, and some put it in the book of Luke.

It's a nice story, but it doesn't belong in the Bible. The greatest story of love and forgiveness is found at the cross of Christ when we understand the text.

So you're saying it doesn't belong in the Bible?

That's right. Doesn't belong in the Bible.

Okay.

And this question comes from Jesse, who says, Hey, Pastor Gabe. First, I want to say how much I love this ministry that you, your wife, and anyone else who helps you put it together. Was that the correct way I worded that sentence?

Anyway, he loves the ministry. I can't tell you how helpful your videos have been. I have recently discovered your podcast, which has been very awesome. A great way to start the day when driving to work.

Thank you so much. And more importantly, praise God. Amen. Soli Deo Gloria. I have some questions about your latest video. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I really did enjoy the video, and it was, as always, very informative.

I was wondering about your comment near the end. It's a nice story, but it has no original authorship and doesn't belong in the Bible. I didn't know that it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts, so that was good to learn and see.

However, I am unsure how to process what we do with that text. Then can we still use this text when studying the Bible or on topics similar to this passage? Does the passage fall under what Second Timothy 316 states that all Scripture is God breathed?

Or should we read this knowing that it was added much later and not allow this passage to be foundational when studying topics like what this passage talks about? I hope my questions were clear, and thank you again for all the work that you do.

Blessings to you all. I do not believe that this passage should received as something that is God breathed. So just like it says in Second Timothy 316 that all Scripture is God breathed. We can only say that about the text that we know appeared in the original manuscripts.

That the original authors, or what's called the original autographs, were divinely inspired. They were the Word of God that was given to them to write down. But this story appears probably hundreds of years after that.

So we can't consider it God breathed Scripture.

Oh wow.

So in your Bible, when you go to John 8 verses 1 through 11, it says, it's got it in brackets. It'll say the earliest manuscripts do not include 753 through 811. And I believe that's in just about every Bible that you own except the King James Bible.

Oh really?

I think that's the only place where that's not found. And this is a hot button issue among King James only-ists. So they're probably fuming about this video right now. Those who had seen it anyway. So your Bible will say, there will be some sort of a note in there that will tell you that it didn't appear in the earliest manuscripts.

Now let me give you my theory as to where this text came from. There are different scholars that will say different things, and I am not a Greek scholar. But here's my theory. The earliest Greek manuscripts of the book of John would be P66 and P75.

The letter P stands for papyrus. Because that's what it was written on. And this story in John 753 through 811 does not appear in any of those manuscripts. In fact, it doesn't come about until maybe about the 3rd or 4th century that it starts showing up.

Oh wow.

It isn't considered to be in canon until Jerome's Latin Vulgate, which would have been in the latter part of the 4th century. Now you've done this with the kids, the timeline with the kids. So could you tell me exactly when the Latin Vulgate was?

Oh, I just know in the timeline where it's at.

Oh, in the order in the timeline. But not the year.

No.

I think it's 383.

I can go look.

Okay.

I don't remember that.

I have the resource.

I don't remember that exactly. This particular section of scripture is called the Pericope Adulterae. And it appears in four different places in the earliest appearances of this particular story. It's in this location in John, also after John 21 -25, after Luke 21 -38, and after Luke 24 -53.

Now there was a fellow by the name of Papias who in about 110 AD wrote a work called the Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord. But we don't have any record of that work.

Okay.

So you can't go to the Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord written by Papias and find evidence that this story is there. However, Eusebius in the 4th century mentioned that Papias wrote about this story in his work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord.

Oh, interesting.

And so the likelihood is that this story was an oral tradition, but it was never written down. So none of the apostles wrote it. It is not written scripture. It was just an oral tradition that was trying to find a home somewhere in the scripture.

Because it's a great story. Everybody loves the story of the woman who was caught in the act of adultery.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And Jesus making fools out of the Pharisees and then forgiving the woman and telling her to go and sin no more. Everybody loves this story. And so it likely was this way with the oral traditions as well.

We love this oral tradition. Why isn't this in the Gospels somewhere? Why isn't it in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John, any of their written accounts of the ministry of Jesus? And so somebody down the road thought, well, let's put it in there somewhere.

Because it's such a great story and we want to have it in the written tradition. So let's put it in there. And so that's why you find in those earliest manuscripts it popping up in four different locations.

It was not written by John or Luke. But you will find it in four different places in John or Luke.

Oh, interesting.

So traditionally, because of the Latin Vulgate, we have it where it's located in John 7 into John 8. Now, if you were to ignore that that is there. So you take out John 7, 53 through 8, 11. And you read John 7 into John 8 without the story of the woman caught in adultery.

The text flows way better.

Oh, really?

With that story in there, it totally breaks up the flow of John. So even using your Bible, your modern day English Bible, you can tell that story doesn't fit. It just breaks up the narrative in John.

I'll have to try that.

To take a look at it when you test it in study later?

Yeah.

Yeah, there you go, listeners. You can test yourself and see that story just doesn't fit in John. But your Bible will tell you. Unless you're reading a King James Bible, it will say that the earliest manuscripts don't include it.

I believe even the New King James Bible mentions early manuscripts don't have this story. Therefore, it's not divinely inspired text. It was oral tradition. And it may have actually happened. It may be a true story.

We just can't actually account for it being Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit because it wasn't written by those who wrote the New Testament.

Right.

Now, when it comes to preaching this text, because I had a couple of questions about this on Twitter and Facebook as well. When it comes to preaching this text, should we just skip over it? Since it's not God-breathed, therefore, can you truly preach this text?

Well, I kind of did in the video. I went about doing the exegesis to explain what was happening in the narrative. But I'm using text from other places in the Bible to explain what's going on. If it was something like a text that was inserted in there and you're going, I just can't make sense out of this whatsoever, then I would say, yeah, you could omit it and not preach it.

But I think as long as you're preaching it in light of what texts say elsewhere, then you're still explaining it according to what the Bible says about what's happening in the story, even if the story itself, which is a narrative, didn't actually occur, whether or not it actually occurred.

So you're using Scripture to interpret what's not Scripture.

Right.

Instead of using Scripture to interpret Scripture, you're using Scripture to explain something that isn't Scripture. And I would still go ahead and preach it simply because I don't want somebody to stumble.

There are people that may not understand things about early manuscripts, how we came about the Bible, original Greek, all these kinds of things. And so when they hear you say this doesn't belong in the Bible, they're going to go, did he just say there's something that doesn't belong in the inerrant word of God?

Right.

Oh, no.

Doesn't Revelation 22 say if you take anything out of the book, then I'll remove from you the tree of life?

Right.

So somebody might stumble if I just stand up and say this doesn't belong there. So therefore, I'm not going to preach on it. And there are some that have that conviction.

And you can still use the Bible to verify that that could have happened.

Right. The story doesn't.

It's not like it's heresy.

No. Yeah. It doesn't contradict.

Thank you. That's what I'm looking for.

The character of Jesus.

Right.

So we can verify. Jesus very likely would have responded this way.

Oh, yeah.

To this particular story. In fact, R .C. Sproul, when he teaches on this particular passage, he even gets a little bit more extra biblical than I did in my explanation in the video, because he goes into what would Jesus have said about this particular situation and kind of theorizes how Jesus might have responded based on what Jesus says in other places in the text.

So R .C. Sproul has a good message on this particular passage as well. But like I said, there are some teachers out there who are so convicted that this is not God-breathed Scripture that they won't preach on it at all.

And that's probably why if you have an ESV study Bible, it says in the study notes at the bottom that this is not a text that comes from the original manuscripts. The original manuscripts don't have evidence of this text.

And so therefore, there are no notes in your ESV study Bible on John 7, 53 through 8, 11. They just don't even bother to offer any notes on that section because it's not considered God-breathed Scripture.

And so there are some preachers that feel that way, too. I'm not going to preach on it because it wasn't breathed out by God. I would go ahead and preach on it as long as I'm using other scriptures to explain what's happening here.

But then I'm going to explain, this is not in the original manuscripts. And there are two occasions that I can think of in the seven years that I've preached, that I've been preaching, where I did reference this text.

And both times I said, this is not in the earliest manuscripts, so it probably doesn't belong in the Bible.

Right.

I think at the time I said it probably doesn't belong in the Bible. I've never actually taught through John, at least from the pulpit before. But if I got to that, the way that I would preach it wouldn't be too much different than what's in the what video.

It would just be 45 minutes instead of a minute.

A little lengthier.

Instead of a minute and a half. So anyway, I hope that answers your question, Jessie. And like I said, my theory on the text is that it was an oral tradition people loved, tried to find a home for it in the Scripture.

It ended up in four different places. And traditionally where it's ended up now is John 7, 53 through 8, 11. If you go to our website, www .utt .com, you'll notice that there's transcripts for all.

The videos.

That's what pops up first when you come to the page. So at the time of this recording, the first transcript that you're going to see is this most recent video. In that transcript, there is a link to an interview with Dr. James White that he had on Apologia Radio.

Sorry, Apologia Radio. You actually pronounce the word Apologia, but they say Apologia.

But anyway.

You do that every time, too.

I think I do.

I think I do.

Anyway, go to that transcript and click on that link, and you can watch a longer interview with somebody who is more scholarly and more expert than I am explaining this particular text, how it came about, how we're supposed to argue for or against it, that sort of a thing.

Anyway, Dr. James White does a pretty thorough explanation of that. All right, this next question comes from Daryl. He says, hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky. I hope you are feeling much better. You sounded like you were having a pretty rough day on Tuesday's podcast.

Yeah.

I think I only went like 12 minutes.

Poor guy.

It was 13.

Well, 13 minutes. Okay, thank you. But that's including the intro and the outro.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

I think it was 14.

Anyway.

I think I only recorded like a dozen minutes or something like that. That's as long as my voice could go. I couldn't make it go any longer. And even then, I paused it several times and coughed.

Yeah.

So you might have noticed some edits in there trying to blur everything together. I have a simple question that seems to be a pretty controversial topic. Is getting a tattoo sinful? I've heard arguments from both sides of this topic, and I'm undecided on what to believe.

I have a tattoo of a cross on my arm from when I was 19, long before I was ever convicted of sin. I personally don't feel convicted that I have it, and I actually would like to get another one in remembrance of a good friend of mine that passed away.

I just want to know beforehand if I would be sinning by getting another one. I would like to know your view on this subject. So, Becky, is it a sin to have a tattoo or not?

Hmm.

No.

Why am I asking you that question?

I don't know.

Why are you?

Between my wife and I, we have two.

Yes. Two tattoos.

And she has them both.

Yes.

I do, though.

I've never had a tattoo. I have no desire to get one. And if you have them, that's fine. I don't see any reason why you would have to go and get them removed.

Right.

And that seems to be the question that I field more often than, is it okay if I get a tattoo? Usually the question is, I have a tattoo. What should I do with it? I mean, unless it's something that's extremely vulgar and it's in view where everybody else can see it.

Right.

There have been a few.

There have been a few that come about that way. Here is the passage of scripture that I've used to explain that. And this doesn't have exactly to do with tattoos. I know in Leviticus it says, thou shalt not get a tattoo.

But not exactly that way. But that's a completely different context. It was talking about, don't look like the pagans in the land that you live with. And somebody might take that and go, well, yeah, but it's a bunch of pagans around here wearing tattoos.

True.

That's up to you. That's up to your convictions there. Here's the passage of scripture I've used to explain this. And it doesn't exactly have to do with tattoos, but I think it's relevant. So this is 1 Corinthians 7, starting in verse 17.

Let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision.

Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called.

Were you a bondservant when called? Then do not be concerned about it, but if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity. For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord.

Likewise, he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. You were bought with a price. Do not become bondservants of men. So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.

And so here's how I've applied that text to getting tattoos. If you had tattoos before you became a Christian, there's no reason to have to try to remove them. And don't feel like you're obligated to do so.

But if you are now a Christian and you're asking whether or not you should get more tattoos, my advice would be don't. Remain as you are.

There are other ways to spend the money.

Yeah, because tattoos are expensive.

They are expensive. But, I mean, like.

You could give money to when we understand the text. No, no.

Not what I was going for. In remembrance of your friend, you can donate to World Vision or something like that. That will have a lifetime effect on somebody who's in need. And you can do that in their name.

And that way you still have the permanence of that and the remembrance. And they even send you, like, sometimes they'll send you a picture of, you know, how your offering helped them and that sort of thing.

That would be something that you could hold on to and look at, you know, and show people.

Right.

So you're responding to doing something in memory of a person.

Yeah.

Yeah, right. So rather than getting a tattoo, donating money to a ministry in their name.

Right.

And then they'll send you a letter as to how that money worked.

And that way you're not just helping yourself and your memories and everything like that, but you're also helping somebody else.

Contributing to somebody else in someone's memory.

Yeah.

That's great. I think that's a great idea.

Thank you.

Yeah, thanks. So, anyway, there you got a couple of answers for you. How you can honor a person's memory in a right and God honoring way. And also whether or not you should get a tattoo.

Right.

So you got answers to both issues. So I hope that that was beneficial to you, Daryl. And thank you for sending in your question. So, again, my personal advice is that you not get any more tattoos. I think that there's a huge craze to get tattoos.

And it's really a Western world phenomenon. If you can resist, remain as you are when you were called. Okay, last question that we have here comes from Patrick. And he says, Hi, Pastor Gabe. A few weeks ago, I listened to your podcast where you suggested a number of websites for good worship music.

Do you remember that one?

I do remember that one.

A few weeks back. One of them is SovereignGrace .com. I've checked out some of their music and I really like it. As I've studied and researched much of the popular Christian music out there today, I've become more aware of the lack of, or just plain bad, theology in much of the music put out nowadays.

Good job.

So thank you for covering this topic and giving some resources to check out that are sound doctrinally. I wish I had gone back to that episode and grabbed those resources again. So I don't have them right here in front of me.

But anyway.

You had three.

I think it was like four or five. Had quite a few. Yeah, I know. City Hymns was one of them. Sovereign Grace obviously was one of them. Anyway, in researching Sovereign Grace.

Seeds Family.

Seeds Family Worship. Yeah, that was one of them too. In researching Sovereign Grace, there was one thing that gave me a little pause. In their seven shared values, the third value states that they hold to a continuationist pneumatology.

Basically, that means that they still believe in speaking in tongues, miraculous spiritual gifts, things like that.

Okay.

I would consider myself reformed and cessationist in my theology. In other words, the miraculous spiritual gifts have ceased.

Okay.

So things like speaking in tongues, miraculous healings, and new prophecy. In the past, I've listened to many artists and groups that after learning more about them and their beliefs, I now avoid. So I'm wondering what your take on this would be in terms of the value of continuationist pneumatology of Sovereign Grace Ministries.

Thank you for all that you do with what. And thank you in advance for your time and for considering my question. Well, Bob Coughlin is the director of Sovereign Grace Music. And I know that he tends to be a little bit charismatic in his theology.

But Bob Coughlin was one of our worship leaders at ShepCon this past February at John MacArthur's church.

Oh, wow.

Now, if there is anybody that's opposed to continuationism, it's John MacArthur.

Right.

And yet Bob Coughlin is regularly one of the invited guests to the Shepherds Conference to lead worship. And so just because he holds to a continuationist pneumatology, that has not excluded Mr. Coughlin from leading worship even at John MacArthur's church.

And Dr. MacArthur has said that he's listened to Bob Coughlin's CDs in the car and worshiped along with Sovereign Grace Music. So he's obviously a very well-received worship leader, even in cessationist circles.

It's a secondary doctrinal issue. It's not an essential doctrinal issue. So I don't think in any way it disqualifies somebody who's a worship leader from being able to worship God in a right way or excluding us from being able to worship God with them.

So if you're listening to somebody who accepts more of a continuationist theology and you're listening to them in your car stereo, I don't think you should have an attitude of, I don't know, I'm just not connecting with the Spirit with this guy because he's connecting with the Spirit in a different way than I am because our theology is different.

Right.

We can all worship together. We hold that Jesus Christ is Lord of all and through him our salvation is guaranteed by his death on the cross and resurrection from the grave, that he's ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the throne of God, and is interceding for us.

And it is through Christ that we offer right worship to God. We might have different opinions about the way the Holy Spirit moves, but all of us who believe in Christ are indwelt with the Spirit of God so that we might lift up right worship to God.

And I think that we can do that regardless of what your belief is on the spiritual gifts.

Mm-hmm.

Nothing else to add?

Well, I was just going to say those are the essential doctrines, but you kind of skipped over that.

I skipped over that.

I mean, you didn't skip over it.

I frolicked through it.

You skipped over my opportunity to pitch in and say that.

Well, you were fading, and I know that we needed to wrap this up because you're just passing out on me over here.

I am tired.

She had some smarties.

I did.

Like the candy smarties.

Mm-hmm.

She's a smarty pants anyway, but she had some candy smarties, and the sugar was supposed to keep her going, but we knew we had like a window of 20 to 30 minutes before she hit a sugar crash. So, here she is on her crash.