February 3, 2017 Show with Latayne Scott on “Just You, Me, & God”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister

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George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, We are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with, and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday on this third day of February 2017, and I'm delighted to have back on the program one of my favorite guests, a friend of mine since the 1990s when

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I began getting her guest interviews on the Andy Anderson Live program on WMCA when

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I was merely an account executive before having a talk program of my own, and I have also had the honor of interviewing her a number of times.

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Her name is Dr. Latane C. Scott. She is a Mormon convert to Christianity, the author of 16 published books, including the recently released

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The Hinge of Your History, The Phases of Faith, Latter -day Cipher, and The Mormon Mirage, which is a classic book on the false teachings of Mormonism.

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And she's also the recipient of the Distinguished Christian Service Award by Pepperdine University for Creative Christian Writing, winner of national awards and contests for poetry, humor, and radio plays, a public speaker nationally and internationally in Mexico and Cuba, and English and Spanish, and at workshops, conferences, special events, and guest speaker on over 60 radio and television programs, regional, national, and syndicated.

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Today she is going to be addressing a couple of things. She's going to be addressing the infamous

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Women in Pink Hats protesters, her response to that, and also the responses she has gotten, both pro and con, from a blog article she wrote about that.

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And we're also going to be addressing her book, Just You, Me, and God, a devotional guide for couples reading through the

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Bible in one year. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr.

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Latane C. Scott. Always a pleasure, Chris. I'm happy to be here. And Latane, there are, it seems, new listeners joining the

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Iron Sharpens Iron audience nearly every week. Perhaps it's even happening more frequently, and I don't know about it.

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But for those of our listeners, I know that you've given this account many times, but perhaps give our listeners a summarized version of why you came to leave

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Mormonism and enter into the Christian faith as it is defined in the

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Bible, and most importantly, how you came to embrace the true Christ of the

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Scriptures and His atoning death on Calvary. Well, it kind of happened in two stages,

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Chris. In 1973, I was the happiest Mormon that I knew. I was approaching my senior year at Brigham Young University on scholarship.

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I had done temple work, I had been an RA in the dorms, I'd been a teacher, and just absolutely loved

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Mormonism for one reason, because it was such a contrast to my birth family and the chaos that was in it, and Mormonism was order and beauty and answers to questions and absolute authority on issues, and I just loved it.

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I loved the Mormon lifestyle, I loved the Mormon people, I loved everything about it.

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And I came home to my home in Albuquerque, New Mexico, during the summer between my junior and senior years of college at BYU, and I met a young man who challenged my assumptions about the

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Bible and mainly that the Bible was incomplete and that there were other superior sources of information, such as anything that a

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Mormon prophet said, the Mormon Scriptures, etc. And he and I began, well,

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I thought we had a bargain. He said he would study Mormonism if I would study the

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Bible with him. And he didn't keep his end of the bargain on two accounts, because we never did get around to studying

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Mormonism, number one. And number two, he went to resources.

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He had a brother -in -law who just passed away, by the way, a good godly man who was very knowledgeable of the

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Bible and also had some good books on Mormonism that did not make the mistakes that many books on Mormonism make, which, in short, these books were helpful, kind, didn't insult the intelligence or the character of Mormons.

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And so I was able to listen to those and spent a horrific, horrific summer in agony, made the decision to leave

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Mormonism but to go back and finish my senior year at BYU. And I thought I could do that, but of course, everyone who knew me there,

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I'd written for BYU publications, I'd won writing awards, and anybody that had known my previous enthusiasm for Mormon doctrine,

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Mormon leaders, and that sort of thing, all those people were shocked and dismayed, and I was not able to keep undercover the doubts that I had and ended up coming back to Albuquerque, New Mexico, embracing our precious

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Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the Jesus Christ of the Bible, being baptized and starting a different life as a

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Christian. Subsequently, about three months later, I married this young man, and we have been married for 43 years now.

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And I say that my conversion happened in two steps, and I'm not talking theologically, but I'm talking temporally.

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While I made the decision to submit to this Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and to accept only the

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Bible as His written Word, to accept it as completely true and authoritarian, or authoritative, not authoritarian, to throw myself wholeheartedly into the life of a

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Christian body of people with whom I have associated now for those 43 years, the same group of people, who loved me, who accepted all my weirdness, who tried to make that transition as smooth as possible.

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But after a period of about 10 years, I felt very spiritually desiccated.

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And someone might say, well, you were so happy to get out of Mormonism, why weren't you happy as a

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Christian? And it wasn't that I wasn't happy, I was spiritually dry. And the fault wasn't the

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Lord's, the fault wasn't the Church's, the fault wasn't the Bible's, the fault was mine, because as I explain to people, once you find out that the being that you have worshipped and loved for the majority of your life doesn't exist, then you're not so anxious to love and trust and embrace another such being.

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And while I submitted to the Lord, I held myself at a distance from Him. And that second phase of my surrender to the

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Lord Jesus Christ, a vulnerability to Him, was every bit as painful and every bit as wrenching as the first phase of it.

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And I'm grateful for that, but it made me understand much more clearly some of the issues that other people have in leaving false systems of thought.

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And, well, I compare it to if you have loved someone and you feel as if that person betrayed you, then you're not anxious to get in another relationship.

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And the God of Mormonism, I felt, betrayed me by not existing. And all my time and effort, and I think

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Christians who are listening can identify with this, if you woke up tomorrow morning and found out that all your missionary work and all your contributions and all your worship and all your study of God's Word, everything that you poured your life into was for a being who didn't exist, you would feel betrayed, and that's the way

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I felt. So it took a long time to come to the realization that I couldn't live without relationship with Him, without vulnerability to Him.

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And my life has been very different since. Well, praise God. And before we get into the conversation of one of the latest books that you've written, the devotional that we mentioned at the outset of the program, where couples are guided through reading the scriptures in a year, just you, me, and God is the name of the devotional, there is a phenomenon that has developed where women are wearing pink hats and it has some kind of a meaning behind it that you find quite offensive as far as what they are trying to say about women's roles and so on.

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And you actually reacted in a way, totally the opposite of the way many

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Christians might think someone would when discovering something like this. And the way that you reacted was beginning a devotional life where you wear head coverings now when you are speaking in churches publicly and so on.

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If you could just tell our listeners in a better way that I could articulate about this story.

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Well, my first reaction was that a Christian symbol had been appropriated and maligned because the women who were wearing those pink hats wore them as a sign of rebellion, rebellion against a person, rebellion against our president.

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And I'm not going to make a statement or take a stand politically on this.

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I'm just saying what the people who wore these pink hats said. And they wore it as a sign of rebellion.

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And on my website, which is latane .com, on the Insight blog, there's a post called,

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About Those Pink Hats. My first reaction was when I found out what those pink hats really meant and the fact that no

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Christian woman I talked to had any idea what the stated purpose of those pink hats was, which was not just rebellion against a person or political system, but something even more than that.

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It made me mad enough that I thought, you know, in 1 Corinthians it talks about using a symbol to indicate submission instead of rebellion.

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And I now carry a scarf with me everywhere I go. When I pray in the presence of a man,

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I put it on my head. I covered my head when you were leading a prayer before we got started here on the air,

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Chris. And I have not spoken publicly in a church since the week before last when

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I made this decision, but I do wear a head covering when praying in church now.

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And not because I want to go back into an ancient form of subjugation, which is how some people might see it, but just because this is a symbol, a biblical symbol, that God did ordain and did talk about.

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And I do understand all the arguments about it was only cultural, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a

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Christian woman doing it for the same reason that people did it in the first century. And so I made that decision.

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But I don't know how many of your listeners know what that hat, the pink hat, represents.

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And it's not just political. It's sexual. It's a symbol of the genitals of a woman.

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And I didn't make that up. I went to the place online where people who have started that movement of making these hats, who give these sewing or knitting instructions for making these hats, posted their stated objectives and their stated meaning of that.

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And so it's got a word in it that I wouldn't say on the air, Chris. If you'll go to my

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Insight blog and find the post that's called About Those Pink Hats, A Christian Woman's Reaction.

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And what is the reason that they are symbolizing female genitalia through their habitatry?

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Well, two reasons, two of their stated reasons. And again, I urge your listeners to go to my website to see their own website where they explain it so that I am not taking words out of their mouth in explaining it.

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But their two stated reasons are that Donald Trump said that he groped the genitals of women.

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And so this is their way of protesting that. But it's also about sexual freedom.

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Which, sexual freedom, I am convinced, is at the root of much of our political unrest and our national unrest right now is because people are afraid that what they would regard as sexual freedoms are at risk because of a new political administration.

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And again, I'm not supporting anything other than what God would have me support, which is the support our leaders, as we're told in Romans 12, and to pray for them.

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And I do fervently do that. Well, for instance, when

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I first posted this article on Facebook, before I put it on my website, there were several women that said,

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I had no idea those hats meant that. And one woman actually said, I knitted three of these hats for women who went to the marches.

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And I had no idea what I was knitting. So my purpose was to educate and to point to authoritative sources about what they say the hats mean, not what

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I think they mean. And then, in reaction, my own... And it was truly a reaction against that to put a sign of submission on my head when praying or speaking, as it says in 1

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Corinthians 11. Yeah, I happen to have friends who are pastors who have adopted the view that that is a proper biblical sign of submission for women to wear hats in the public worship, although none of the men that are my close personal friends bind that on the conscience of the women in the church.

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But they have developed that conviction themselves, and many of the women in their congregations do do that, and some don't.

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And even in the congregation where I'm a member, there is a minority of women who do.

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So you're saying that this is something that you do out of a personal conviction, but not something that you necessarily want to convince other women to follow suit with this.

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Absolutely not. This was as much my sign of rebellion against the pink hats as it was my desire to participate in a biblical symbol.

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And, Chris, biblical symbols are so important. You can't rob a biblical symbol of its meaning and use it for something else and get away with it.

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For instance, the cross. Paul talked about how the cross can be emptied of its power and how it can be meaningless to some people, and yet it be very significant to others.

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And my contemporary example of that is, well, three examples. One is

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Mormons don't wear crosses. They don't have crosses on their buildings, because the atonement of Christ on the cross is pretty much meaningless to them because they believe the atonement took place in the

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Garden of Gethsemane and not on a cross. A Christian might wear a cross around his or her neck, and it would be a symbol of identification with Jesus Christ.

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A Ku Klux Klan member might put a cross in someone's yard and burn it, and it would have a completely different meaning.

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So it's very important that biblical symbols be viewed as the

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Lord wanted them viewed in the Bible and not appropriated. A head covering can't be appropriated by someone, a

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Christian woman especially, as a symbol of one's genitalia on one's head and get away with it.

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I don't think the Lord looks kindly on that. Yes, and I'm sure that the majority, if not all of these women, could care less how the

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Lord looks upon it. I imagine. I imagine. Yes, and, well, you know, you are quite an accomplished woman.

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You have your doctorate. You have written, as I mentioned in your introduction, you have written 16 published books.

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You are an accomplished speaker and so on, and I'm sure that you know that there does exist still an unbiblical concept of women where they are viewed upon as inferior, but at the same time there is obviously, it seems much more broad and widespread today, the opposite seems to be on the rise, the flipping or actually annihilating of any kind of biblical roles for the genders in the family and in the church.

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There seems to be, feminism is on the march, and it has really infiltrated many aspects of even conservative evangelical

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Christianity. But what is your response to the things that I've just said? Well, I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place, because one of the books

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I've written, Chris, that has not yet been published, it's written with the premise, the very ancient premise, that one of the books of the

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New Testament was actually written by a woman. By Priscilla, right? By Priscilla, who

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I believe wrote the book of Hebrews. Well, someone who is an egalitarian, someone who believes that there aren't, let me see if I can say this in a way that honors them,

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I believe that egalitarians would say that there is no difference in function nor value of a man versus a woman in a

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Christian church. And they would welcome that, of course. They would welcome such a thought.

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But I myself am a complementarian, which I believe that men and women are of equal value, but have different functions, especially in public worship.

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This is my stance. This is the way I've operated in my ministry, in my own church.

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And I would agree with you, and I think that those who oppose that view, the complementarian view, are hard -pressed to really logically and consistently get their view out of the

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Scriptures. But anyway, I'm sorry I interrupted you. That's okay. But I also do not bind that on people, nor would

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I withhold fellowship from egalitarian Christians, because I think that sometimes both sides have gone too far and been too extreme in their view of women.

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So all that said, I don't try to bind things where there is a reasonable way of looking at it two ways.

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I don't withhold fellowship, nor would I condemn someone if they wanted to talk to me about it.

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I'd love to do that. But I see the symbolism of male -female relationships being played out, and we're back to symbols again, throughout the

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Bible of the symbolism of Christ in the Church and the submission of Jesus to the

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Father, which all the way through John, Jesus says over and over again, I and the

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Father are one, but I do only what He tells me to do. I only show what

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He wants me to show. I only act in the ways that He wants me to do. And of course, from a biblical marriage point of view, that's a difficult one to pull off, you know?

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Yeah. Any Christian woman would say, you know, that's a hard path to walk. And I don't think men consider, for many women, how difficult a path that is to walk.

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Yes, in fact, whenever I go to a Christian wedding, especially in the churches where I predominantly fellowship,

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I always look around during the marriage ceremony after the pastor announces to the bride that she is to submit to her husband, and I look around to see the heads, like the angry looks, women whispering in their husbands' ears, and so on.

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Even as a man, I can empathize with the hardship of that, not as much as a woman who experiences it herself, obviously, but I have dear friends who are women who are treated horribly by their husbands, many of whom are not

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Christians. Sometimes these were marriages that took place because the woman was tricked into thinking that her husband was really a convert, really a born -again believer, and sometimes it was that the woman was actually thinking that she could, naively thinking she could change her husband through marrying him and bring him into the faith, or sometimes it's just women who come to faith later in their lives after they're already married.

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So I can definitely and certainly empathize with the struggle, witnessing how sometimes they are treated despicably and horribly, and it breaks my heart.

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And I have no little empathy for such women, because my mother herself was in such a marriage with my father.

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Yes, I remember your very moving testimony with the pro -life message behind it that you had given on the program.

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So, again, I hope that your listeners will hear me saying that my purpose in posting this reaction to the pink hats was to give a biblical view of symbols, especially women in head coverings.

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And one of the things that's most surprising, that most people don't know, is a woman wearing a head covering has something to do with the angels.

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And I've never gotten anybody to satisfactorily explain to me what that means, that it's right there in 1

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Corinthians. That we wear a head covering because of the angels. And it gives me the idea,

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Chris, that there is an unseen audience to our public worship.

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What we do, the symbols that we are, are not just symbols for the world, but we are symbols for an unseen audience of listening and watching beings.

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And I don't want to get too deeply into my views of the unseen realms, but we do know that angels do communicate with and travel back and forth and apparently view or witness or at least are aware of things.

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Because in the Old Testament, they longed to look into things they couldn't look into until Jesus came and exemplified them.

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Yes, in fact I was fascinated by a book that I actually had the honor of having a foreword in that I wrote many years ago, back in the 1990s.

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Do you know who Victor Knowles is? I do. Yeah, Victor Knowles wrote it. The Body of Angels. Yeah, but his original book was called

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Angels and Demons. That was the original book. And he actually honored me with the privilege of writing the foreword to that.

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But I was very fascinated by the very thorough study he did on that subject. And today

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I believe it's only available in the part of the book that addresses angels. He minimized the length of the book and turned it into a book just solely about angels.

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Well, LaGarde Smith has also written a very interesting book about angels. And it's written from the point of view in the voice of Michael the

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Archangel. Very fascinating book. Very fascinating book. Well, we're going to go to a break right now.

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We already do have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answered. And we will take your questions as soon as we can.

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Perhaps we'll get a little bit more into the devotional book before we take your questions, because it seems that the questions predominantly are in that realm of thought.

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But if anybody would like to join them with questions of their own for Dr. Latane C. Scott, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

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chrisarnson at gmail dot com. And please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

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USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Latane C. Scott after these messages. Hi, I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors Study every

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Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio.

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www .wlie540am .com

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We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in with your questions.

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Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon

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Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors Study because everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back, this is

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Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the full two hours is my old friend,

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Dr. Latine C. Scott. She is a published author. She is a Mormon convert to Christianity.

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If you'd like to join us on the air, we are right now on the tail end of discussing her reaction to the women in pink hats, feminists who have been protesting the election of Donald Trump and other things.

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We are going to be moving into, in the very near future, within a matter of probably 20 minutes or so, we're going to be discussing her book,

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Just You, Me, and God, a devotional guide for couples reading through the Bible in one year.

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Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com chrisarnzen at gmail .com

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Latine, the thing that baffles me is the blindness that many feminists seem to have when they are trying to push through the establishment of things, the legalization of things, the acceptance and celebration of things in our culture that actually, in many ways, harm women.

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You have, first and foremost, the abortion issue. Well, they may look at that as a personal reproductive right issue, but we all know that millions of little girls are being murdered by this, and on top of that, men have become more emboldened not to care about the consequences of impregnating women.

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Hey, get rid of it. I don't want anything to do with that. I'm not taking care of that. That kind of an attitude, where men have been given more of a freedom to basically act and behave like misogynist pigs, put it bluntly.

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And then even you have the feminists pushing for all of these transgendered right issues, like unisex bathrooms and so on, when they are more than likely going to be the victims of assaults in situations like that, and where their rights to privacy is being robbed from them because of men sharing those kinds of facilities with them.

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And even in every other realm, where a man who believes he is a woman and has certain, perhaps, superiority when it comes to strength and other issues, is going to be considered just as if he is a real woman in engaging in all kinds of athletic competitions and other things in life.

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All these things just seem to be oddly detrimental to the things that the feminists are vociferously fighting for.

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Am I making sense here? Well, let me bring it back to the discussion of the pink hat.

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Women in the feminist movement object to being seen as sexual objects, and that is right and good.

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God never portrayed women as sexual objects. He doesn't want them portrayed as sexual objects.

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But for the life of me, Chris, I can't figure out why wearing a symbol of your genitals on your head is less of a sex object.

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I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Yeah, that's ridiculous. I mean,

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I can understand some of the other things. I can understand their reasoning without agreeing with them.

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But that one was so over the top and so crazy. And in fact, Chris, some of the other ways that women, some of the other things women wore during that march were just absolutely disgusting.

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And so, the pink hats were the tip of the iceberg, the mildest form of that kind of rebellion.

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So, yeah, I'm sorry. The Lord looks down in sorrow on the things that are actually putting women back and actually not letting them have the glory and the honor that God intended for them to have in their uniqueness.

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And in fact, you have feminists in the very odd position of protesting when a man murders a pregnant woman and he is being charged with double homicide.

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You have women, ironically, infuriated and wanting a lesser charge brought against him.

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He's not guilty of double homicide. He's guilty of murder, but not double homicide because that thing in the woman's belly is not a human, and therefore you can't call it murder.

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These kinds of things that actually backfire on women, in my opinion. I agree with you.

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I agree. And so, you are a woman who has accomplished much and has earned a degree.

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What practical advice... earned a doctorate degree, that is. What practical advice would you like to share before we move on to the other subject?

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How women can remain faithful to biblical concepts of complementarianism and so on, and yet still use their gifts, use their minds, use their abilities to bless the church.

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And obviously, this would not only be exclusively a word to women, but to men who are even pastors and others who allocate specific duties and use particular people in the congregation, in the flock, to use their gifts for the blessing of the body of Christ.

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Just give us some practical advice for all listening in this area. Well, this is not a strategy, but it is a principle.

39:43

Jesus said, if you want the best seat, then you take the least seat. If you want to be considered greater, you have to think of yourself as lesser.

39:56

And, by the way, I am all over this craziness of telling every child that they are the best thing in the world.

40:05

You know, they are the most wonderful thing that ever hit humanity, that sort of thing. So, Jesus said that if you want to be great, you have to be least.

40:16

That's not a strategy, but in my own life, by not pushing my agendas, my self, my presence, my opinions, for instance, in Bible classes,

40:31

I'm often called on to give an opinion, which makes me feel really good, and it honors the study that I have done and the research that I have done.

40:42

But nobody likes a man or a woman that tries to take over any corporate situation.

40:51

And so my advice is that if women want to be listened to, they have to listen first.

40:58

And you earn the right to be heard in most situations.

41:06

I'm not talking about corporate worship. But in most situations, you earn the right by not insisting on your rights.

41:14

And that's my advice. Amen. And, of course, there are even men who have extraordinary gifts, who might even be more gifted in oratory or homiletic areas than their own pastors.

41:31

They may be even more studied and more brilliant than their pastors, but they may not have a calling as a shepherd or an overseer, and it may be for clear reasons or not so clear reasons, but there are men who even must recognize that not everyone is called to be an overseer or an elder or a pastor in a congregation.

42:00

And so the jealousy that may rise up in anyone, whether it's a woman or a man, because they may feel,

42:07

I have a superior gift than this person, that doesn't necessarily mean you're qualified to be that elder or overseer or shepherd or pastor.

42:17

Well, how that works out for me is my minister doesn't have the same theological degree that I have, and yet I go into any corporate worship where someone's speaking, no matter what the man's skills, no matter what his educational level, no matter what his level of preparation for whatever he's teaching.

42:40

And I say to the Lord, Lord, I want you to give me what I need today out of this lesson, and I will listen carefully, and I know you'll give it to me.

42:48

And he always does. And I tell other people, you want a lesson from the Lord? You want something that you can use in your life?

42:54

You can pray that same prayer, and you'll get something too. And that keeps me from ever wanting to correct or upstage or anything like that because I need to learn.

43:05

You know, I need to be said. We are put in corporate bodies and bodies of believers so that we can perform different functions and help each other.

43:16

It's always through the building up of the body, and I need to be built up. You know, Chris, our family's going through a very difficult circumstance right now with my husband's ongoing long, long illness and now a crisis with his heart, and I need to be built up.

43:33

I need messages from the Lord, and I'm not talking about individual revelation. I'm talking about that the

43:40

Word of Life is broken open for me. You know, break thou the bread of life, dear

43:45

Lord, to me. In fact, I don't know how much detail you'd like to give for the purpose of prayer requests for our listeners, but if you'd like anything that you'd like to share about your husband,

43:56

Dan, and his health battles that he's going through that require fervent prayer from the body of Christ?

44:04

Well, we'll just leave it with the amount of detail that I have. And my sincere appreciation and thanks to those who hold up our arms and keep us strong through these difficult circumstances.

44:16

We are very grateful for the body of Christ. Amen. Well, you have written this book that we are going to be addressing today,

44:27

Just You, Me, and God, a devotional guide for couples reading through the Bible in one year.

44:33

If you could tell us something about what led you to write this to begin with.

44:40

Well, I had a friend who was teaching at a ministry training school, and he noted a phenomenon that these young men would come to this school to be trained, and although they had a parallel track for wives, if the wives were able to attend the school as well.

44:58

Some of them worked to support their husbands to put them through the school, but they had a parallel track for them.

45:04

But he noticed, my friend noticed, that while the men were, in all cases, gaining all this

45:12

Bible knowledge and all these insights and being around spiritual leaders and spiritual mentors and just growing spiritually, many times the women were left behind.

45:23

And it wasn't because they were less spiritual than the men, but they were not being fed in the same way. So the very first version of this book

45:30

I wrote for that ministry school so that men and women together could read through the

45:36

Bible in a year's time with a New Testament passage and an

45:42

Old Testament passage each day, and then get together one day a week to discuss what they'd read.

45:49

I think in our society, unless you know people that can do this, I don't know anybody that has the freedom and the time to sit down and read the

45:57

Bible through with just their spouse every day. But everybody can squeeze in their own

46:04

Bible reading. And then the idea is that if you have small children, that you get a babysitter for them and mom and dad or husband and wife go out together to a separate place and they talk about what they read.

46:20

And so I include in the guide the Old Testament and New Testament readings and then a series of questions that the man and the woman on their date night and they can go out and make it something special, go out to dinner if they want to, that they can discuss.

46:38

And the reason for that is it's one thing to read through the same passages and kind of be on the same track mentally.

46:46

But it's another thing to deal with some of the stormy, thorny, knotty things that are in the

46:54

Scripture. And by knotty, K -N -O -T -T -Y, although there are some knotty things in Scripture too. But for instance, in the very first week, one of the discussion questions that I offer is what is the theme of rivalry?

47:11

How do you see rivalry playing out in these Old Testament and New Testament passages?

47:17

Since rivalry was an issue that God chose to portray and show as a problem, what are we feeling?

47:28

What presence of rivalry are we feeling with each other?

47:35

If the man's in ministry, is he feeling rivalry with others on the church staff?

47:42

Is he feeling rivalry at work and in a secular job? Are they noticing rivalry among their children?

47:51

Child to child, are they noticing rivalry that their son or daughter is inordinately motivated to achieve on a sports team or for a scholarship?

48:03

How do we deal with that? What does the Bible have to say about that? So each week, the man and the wife aren't only on the same track with the material in the

48:15

Bible. They're also led to or encouraged to talk about those things one -on -one with their spouses.

48:26

The other thing that the book does is that it teaches and encourages a skill called generalizing.

48:36

Because although we could, my husband and I might both read the story of David and Goliath, the fact is that we're probably not going to have a one -to -one correspondence of that situation in our own lives.

48:50

I don't think either one of us is ever going to meet a giant on a field without weapons that we came prepared to fight with.

49:05

On the other hand, we can generalize about that circumstance that physical conditions don't determine the outcomes of the situation.

49:17

I guess you better be prepared never to wander out in the middle of the field during the Super Bowl or something.

49:23

Well, that might be one place where you might be in that circumstance.

49:31

A man and a wife need to be able to extract generalizations from these passages that allow each of them to be able to utilize those principles in their lives and to make

49:50

Scripture not... I don't want to say make

49:56

Scripture personal, but make the principles and the generalizations you get out of the grammatical structure of the

50:03

Bible something that you can put in your own pocket and then when you're in a circumstance you can say,

50:08

I need to remember material circumstances don't determine the outcomes of a situation.

50:15

The obstacles in a situation don't determine how it ends. And if you remember that, and when you go into a medical situation and the doctor tells you, as the doctor has told me over and over again,

50:27

Mrs. Scott, this is the end, prepare yourself, you know, pick up the funeral songs, then

50:32

I think to myself, no. The circumstances, the situation and the circumstances do not determine how this is going to end.

50:41

And they don't. Only the Lord determines that. So I teach or encourage that skill in this reading as well, and Chris, I am so adamant about Biblical literacy.

50:58

We would not have the problems in our churches today if people actually sat down and just read the

51:05

Bible and just talked about it with one another. And you know, in the book of Malachi there's an enormous promise.

51:14

In Malachi, I think it's chapter 3, there was a circumstance just like we're facing in the world today where everything's in turmoil and people are saying to one another, you know, it doesn't really matter whether or not you serve

51:25

God because you're going to get the shaft anyway. And it says in the book of Malachi that those who love the

51:32

Lord got together and talked about Him, focused on His words.

51:38

And it says that the Lord watched, He thought, He did two things,

51:44

He made a book of remembrance in Heaven of those who honored His word, who talked about Him, and He made a difference in their circumstances.

51:54

So I'm utterly devoted to the idea that we must be spending time not in external things about the

52:06

Bible but in actually reading the Bible. And that's why this book is so important, or books of this type.

52:11

I'm not the only one who's read this book. But it's why books of this sort are so important to get people to say no to worldly activities at least once a day and read their

52:25

Bibles. And, Chris, I didn't let our children leave our home until they had read through the

52:31

Bible with me at least once before they left for college. Our daughter, the overachiever, read the

52:39

Bible through seven times on her own and didn't... We would discuss things but she did it on her own.

52:45

Well, our son was normal. He said to me one time, Mom, do you have any idea what it's like growing up in a household with a

52:54

Virgin Mary? I said, I know. Your sister's not normal and you are.

53:00

But he and I, it took us over a year to read through the Bible, but we read it out loud and talked about it.

53:08

And I think that made a tremendous difference in this young man's life. I think he would say it made a big difference.

53:15

One of the perks was when he got to Lubbock Christian University where he went to school, he showed up in his

53:22

New Testament class and answered all the questions and the professor said, you obviously know your

53:29

Bible. He said, yes sir. My mom made sure he read it through with her before I left home. And he says, well, if you're confident of your knowledge you don't have to attend class, you can just take the final.

53:39

And he did. So see, there are perks. There are perks. Yes. We actually have to go to a break right now because we have to keep our hours to 54 -minute segments now.

53:48

So we're going to be right back after these messages. Don't go away. We'll hear more with Latane Scott when we return.

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01:03:28

This is Chris Arnzen. Before we return to our interview with Dr. Latane C. Scott on the subject

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Just You, Me, and God, a devotional guide for couples reading through the Bible in one year,

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So, please, I ask you to not only donate to Iron Sharpens Iron if you're able to, but also pray that the

01:06:06

Lord provides for this ministry. We are back now with Dr.

01:06:12

Latane C. Scott. We are discussing her book, Just You, Me, and God, a devotional guide for couples reading through the

01:06:21

Bible in one year. And we do have a couple of listeners, or actually a number of listeners, who have responded already with questions.

01:06:33

And let's see, our first question is from Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker, who is the pastor of Shepherd's Fellowship of Greensboro, North Carolina.

01:06:48

And Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker has a question.

01:06:54

Many marriage encounters used in the Christian church are unbalanced with respect to the authority of the instructions for how to have a good marriage.

01:07:04

Pragmatism is offered as a basis for a good Christian marriage. The title of your book is refreshingly different.

01:07:13

Would the book be a reasonable document for Christian marriage lessons? Well, thank you, first of all,

01:07:23

Pastor, for that insightful question. Of course, every mother crow thinks her babies are the blackest.

01:07:34

So, of course, I'm going to like my book. But I don't believe you can have what

01:07:42

God would regard as a solid Christian marriage unless the basis of it is not your relationship to one another, but your relationship to the

01:07:51

Lord and it being reflected in your relationship to one another. And, of course, you can't have a relationship with the

01:07:59

Lord unless you know what He likes and what He doesn't like. And I would tell my students, if you want to know what the

01:08:07

Lord likes, what makes Him happy, what makes Him sad, what makes Him angry, what does

01:08:13

He remember for generations, what does He choose to forgive, how does He choose to forgive, you've got to look at the

01:08:20

Bible across the board, see how God has dealt with human beings for thousands of years of human history to find out what

01:08:27

He's like. And then you'll know how to relate to Him. And correlatively, you'll know how to relate to one another.

01:08:36

I think in Christian marriages, we might talk about why we're mad at one another and for what

01:08:42

He's calling pragmatism, what works, you know, what will make us be able to get along.

01:08:48

And many times we don't address the issues of what is God's will in this matter, which may be something quite different from what the husband wanted and from what the wife wanted.

01:09:00

And so for that reason, you can't know what He wants if you don't sit down and read it for yourself.

01:09:07

I believe that God's Word is of such enormous and unique power that it is unlike any other book ever written.

01:09:15

That it contains within it the power, through the Holy Spirit, to talk to people of all ages, of all educations, of all cultures, and of all time.

01:09:27

No other book can do that. Only this book can do it. So therefore, if you take a step away from it and you talk about it and don't read it, you're always one step away from knowing what

01:09:39

He really wants and needs and what He wants for human beings. So yes, I do understand the value of marriage and countertype seminars and retreats and that sort of thing.

01:09:53

I know people who would say their marriages have been saved by that sort of thing. But, not all of us can go to a retreat.

01:10:02

But every one of us can find some time during the day to read God's Word and to make it a point to do what it says in the book of Malachi, to talk to one another about it.

01:10:13

And there's no replacement for that. There's no replacement for that. Well, thank you,

01:10:20

Pastor Sterling. And guess what? You are getting a free copy of this book by our guest,

01:10:25

Dr. Latane C. Scott, Just You, Me, and God, a devotional guide for couples reading through the

01:10:31

Bible in one year, just in time for Valentine's Day. So, we hope that you and your wife,

01:10:38

I'm assuming you have one, will be blessed by this book. And, we do have a list...

01:10:47

Chris, can I point out one other thing? Sure. The book is also available in Kindle format.

01:10:53

So, those of you who are interested in this could actually download it on your

01:10:59

Kindle devices, or your phone, or whatever, or you have a Kindle app. And the husband and the wife would have the reading materials and the questions available to them without having to carry a

01:11:11

Bible around. And if you're like me, I have a Bible on my phone, and I also have the downloaded version of Just You, Me, and God, so that I don't have to carry those things if I'm caught in...

01:11:26

You know, I sat at a doctor's office for two hours the other day to see a doctor. Well, guess what? I had my

01:11:31

Bible and I had materials to use there, because I had my phone with me. So, if you go to Amazon .com,

01:11:38

this book is also available on Kindle at a very reduced price. We have an anonymous listener who wants to know,

01:11:47

Latane, do you have any advice for a Christian woman married to an unbeliever as to how to gently convince him to join me in this study?

01:12:03

I think there is no greater witness to a non -Christian husband than a wife who makes it her priority, not taking time away from her husband in such a way that he would resent it.

01:12:15

But he... When a man gets up in the morning and he sees his wife has gotten up specifically to read the

01:12:22

Bible, and he sees her face as she reads it, he sees her head bowed in prayer, she can be one, as Scripture says, he can be one without a word, just by observing your conduct.

01:12:37

And your conduct is that of reading Scripture and letting him see that you read it.

01:12:45

And I've said that for years. There is no greater witness to your family. Don't hide from your children you're reading the

01:12:51

Bible. Let them know that Mom... I always tell my kids, don't interrupt me when

01:12:57

I'm praying unless there's blood. If there's blood, knock on the door. Otherwise, Mom is on her knees and she's praying.

01:13:04

My children know that. They grew up knowing that. And our families have to see us doing that, and you can do it in a way that's not ostentatious, but that is to be the most powerful witness.

01:13:17

And then a wife could, reasonably, after a period of time, say, you know, it's really about this woman

01:13:24

Esther and how she managed to get a king to change a political ordinance.

01:13:33

Right. You think such a thing is possible in the world today? Questions like that can be asked.

01:13:39

Also within this book, there are questions that are asked of the readers, but things like, when

01:13:51

Jesus healed a woman who had the issue of blood, he said he felt power going out of him.

01:13:57

What do you think that would mean if God himself has power going out of him and feels drained by it? Things like that are not pushy or anything else, but they're things to think about, things to talk about with one another.

01:14:10

So in other words, you don't advise the wife throwing the book at her husband's head while he's sitting on the couch or lying on the couch watching the football game and screaming at him, you promised me you'd go through this devotional with me, and snatching the remote out of his hand and so on.

01:14:27

You don't... I think that would be counterproductive, my wife. To a guy that likes this remote pretty well.

01:14:36

You lazy slob, don't you want me to be submissive to you? But anyway...

01:14:41

No, and it's that, you know, if one person gets behind, the other person can say, hey, you know what, I'm just going to re -read that section that we were just on and you can catch up.

01:14:50

Is it going to hurt any of us to read a passage twice? I don't think so. Of course not.

01:14:58

And by the way, Anonymous, if you email me your full name and mailing address, obviously

01:15:03

I will not identify you on the air at all, but if you give me your full name and mailing address,

01:15:08

I will send you a free copy of this book that we are addressing today,

01:15:14

Just You, Me, and God, A Devotional Guide for Couples Reading Through the Bible in One Year.

01:15:20

So keep your eye open in the mail for that. And by the way, whenever our listeners win books,

01:15:29

Bibles, CDs, DVDs, or whatever they win on Iron Chirp and Zion, by submitting questions, they are shipped out to you, free of charge to you and to Iron Chirp and Zion, by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

01:15:48

CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service, dot com, who are sponsors of Iron Chirp and Zion and alleviate the shipping costs from us, which obviously amount to a great deal of money we give away books and Bibles and other things every week.

01:16:10

Sometimes we go weeks giving things away every day. God bless them.

01:16:16

God bless them. Yes, so I hope that you also remember them for other gift purchasing needs whenever you're looking for a special gift that actually has eternal meaning to it for any holiday coming up, including

01:16:31

Valentine's Day. This is a question that goes back to something you said earlier.

01:16:39

Now, you have the liberty, Latane, to keep this as lengthy or as brief as you want because I'm not prepared to have a whole program dedicated to this or have a debate of any kind, but we have

01:16:53

Jerry in Charlestown, New Hampshire, who says, I am very much enjoying the discussion with Dr.

01:17:01

Scott. Her commitment to the beauty of biblical femininity is very apparent, and it is refreshing to hear.

01:17:07

If I may, I did want to follow up on Dr. Scott's belief that the book of Hebrews was written by Priscilla.

01:17:14

Certainly, Priscilla was a woman wonderfully versed in Scripture, who, with her husband, helped instruct

01:17:21

Apollos regarding the faith. But a couple of points seem to indicate the author was male.

01:17:27

First, the author uses a masculine participle in chapter 11, verse 32, would fail me to tell you.

01:17:36

Second, the author indicates to his audience that he planned on visiting the church to whom he was writing in 13, 19, and 23, and it was very rare in biblical times for a woman to travel by herself to the diaspora of Christians in biblical times.

01:17:54

And I'll stop there because he has more. Do you care to comment on any of that? Oh, I'd love to have a whole show on that.

01:18:02

The first person who dealt with the, at length, with the idea that Priscilla was the author of the book of Hebrews was

01:18:14

Harnack, and I do not remember his name, his first name. And then secondly was a woman named

01:18:21

Ruth Hoppen, H -O -P -P -I -N. And Ruth Hoppen's book, I think it's called

01:18:29

Priscilla's Letter to the Hebrews? Anyway, her last name is Hoppen, H -O -P -P -I -N.

01:18:36

Both of them deal with the male participle argument. Even though I read the biblical

01:18:43

Greek, I'm not an expert in it, but I would have to bow to those who are more adept at that.

01:18:50

I can say this, the second part of his question was about a woman traveling alone.

01:18:56

We don't know at what point that Priscilla and Aquila stayed married, and I don't mean that they got divorced.

01:19:05

I mean, it was quite common in biblical times for the husband to predecease the wife, as it is in our culture as well.

01:19:16

So it's possible that she could have traveled in the company of other people as a group, perhaps without her husband, and have written it that way.

01:19:25

It's my opinion that by the time the end of the book of Hebrews is written, that this couple,

01:19:36

Priscilla and Aquila, worked together, and may have even switched back and forth with some of their comments, kind of like when we see

01:19:47

Paul conceding to one of his scribes saying something as he's writing.

01:19:54

The other thing that everyone, almost all modern scholars agree on is that Paul himself did not write the book of Hebrews, because I think in Hebrews chapter three, the writer indicates that he or she was not a witness of the resurrection.

01:20:15

My tact that I took in this novel, and it's not nonfiction, it's a novel, was that Priscilla, a learned woman and an intelligent woman, was a convert to Christianity from her

01:20:33

Roman background, and that she was literally overcome by Revelation in the same sense that many of the

01:20:39

Old Testament prophets were picked up, carried off, and that visions or burdens were placed upon them.

01:20:47

So that book, Jerry, and again, I just really appreciate your comments and questions, because they're things

01:20:56

I've wrestled with, too. The novel should be out in about six months, and if Chris, if you will forward his address to me and he would like to read the manuscript copy of it,

01:21:11

I'd be happy to let him read it. Sure. And wow, that's a very nice honor to be able to read a manuscript like that.

01:21:20

Well, that's great. Jerry, just his final comment or question in his email is, third, it seems as though God has designed that the biblical headship of men in the church, especially in 1

01:21:32

Timothy 2 .12, would certainly apply to spirit -inspired authoritative books written for the edification of the church.

01:21:43

And so I think what I hear Jerry saying is that perhaps that would preclude a woman from writing it, but we do see in the seven,

01:21:53

I think there are seven examples where Priscilla and Aquila's names are mentioned together, and I think it's four out of seven her name is actually mentioned first.

01:22:03

I don't think that's an indication that she was not under her husband's authority, but perhaps that she, in her role as a prophetess, and we know there were prophetesses in the

01:22:14

New Testament, that perhaps she held that role while her husband held a different function in the church that didn't include as much teaching as hers.

01:22:24

It is interesting that there is so much mystery behind the author of this letter, and that it's, you know, purposely unidentified.

01:22:43

But anyway, well thank you, Jerry, and guess what, Jerry, you are getting a free copy of the book we are addressing today, just you, me, and God, A Devotional Guide for Couples, Reading Through the

01:22:55

Bible in One Year. Thank you very much for your insightful question, and even written with much grace and humility, even though you were in disagreement with my guest.

01:23:08

And let's see here, we have

01:23:13

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks, don't you agree,

01:23:21

Latane, that a key to surviving the battles and disagreements and hardships of marriage is always to recall the fact that you are a sinner saved by grace, and remembering all the things that Christ Jesus has forgiven you personally for, and then in turn realizing that the things that you are typically forgiving your spouse for pale into insignificance when compared to the forgiveness you have received yourself from God.

01:23:58

Arnie, you put that better than I could. I just remember that I was catastrophically wrong about things for ten years of my life.

01:24:12

Catastrophically wrong. Put my own soul in danger. So when I remember that, that I can be so wrong, so informed, and yet so wrong, it makes me be more understanding of my own husband.

01:24:26

And as I said, he married a weird lady.

01:24:34

I mean, I was so messed up, you know, coming from a bad home life and coming from a cult.

01:24:43

I mean, my goodness. And so I never forget that, and he will tell me, you know, that when he apologized, that you need to forgive me.

01:24:54

And I remember that. I always remember that. Jesus said, if I don't forgive, then I can't get forgiveness.

01:25:00

And Chris, I have so many sins that I've got to have forgiveness for. I can't afford not to do that.

01:25:06

I can't afford not to forgive. Amen. Well, thank you, Arnie, and you are getting the last copy that we have available to give away of this book by Dr.

01:25:15

Latane C. Scott, Just You, Me, and God, A Devotional Guide for Couples Reading Through the Bible in One Year. Thank you very much for writing, and please give us your full mailing address so we can have cvbbs .com

01:25:29

ship that out to you as quickly as possible. And we do have, let's see, we have another listener,

01:25:37

Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York. We have Tyler, and I have to enlarge

01:25:44

Tyler's question because the font is so tiny I can't read it, and I need to get new glasses.

01:25:52

Tyler says, Is it important for single men to be accustomed to devotional time on a regular basis in preparation for marriage later on?

01:26:06

Oh, what an insightful question. I think the same principle applies to what

01:26:15

I said earlier to anonymous who ask about how to witness to a non -Christian spouse.

01:26:24

I think if you're not in the habit of devotional time and time alone with the

01:26:31

Lord, building your own mental library of the words of God in your mind, that it's going to feel unnatural to you to impose that on anybody else or to ask it of anybody else.

01:26:44

So I'd say, yes, absolutely, get in the habit first, and don't think that you're going to reform yourself and your wife once you get married because, hate to tell you, that doesn't usually work.

01:27:00

And sorry about that, I had you on mute accidentally, or should I say had me on mute. It seems to sound better when

01:27:09

I put my own microphone on mute for some reason. In fact, I think many of my listeners would prefer that I always have my microphone on mute.

01:27:19

I don't think so. But, Tyler, thanks a lot for listening and for the great question and please keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron, spreading the word out there in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, about the show.

01:27:37

In fact, every person should, when they are single, should be living in preparation for life as if they would be married, if that is indeed something that they believe that they want in their lives.

01:27:56

Obviously, there's nothing sinful or wrong or inferior to prefer remaining single for the rest of Of course, motives are always key in anything like that.

01:28:10

Obviously, a person could have selfish and sinful motives for that, but, obviously,

01:28:17

Paul didn't think that there was anything dishonoring about being single. But, if you are intending to be married, obviously, living with great preparation to be a blessing to whatever spouse

01:28:35

God may give you, it would be very wise. And one of the reasons I even bring that up, in fact,

01:28:41

I'll let you answer when we return from the break, is I can recall prior to my own marriage during a time of courtship with my late wife,

01:28:54

I can recall some women who we would have fellowship with, you know, when we would have fellowship with other couples, telling my fiancée that she did not need to submit to me until after we were married, and that we would have like examples in our little public gatherings of when perhaps my late wife did not want to be submissive on this or that, and I was demonstrating some kind of an authority over the subject, and the woman would chime in and say, hey, you shouldn't be telling her what to do, she's not your wife yet, don't you think that even during the courtship stage that these kinds of things should already be, we should be, you know, preparing ourselves for that, those days ahead, and I will have your answer when we return from the break, so if anybody else would like to join us on the air, we do have at least two more people who are waiting to have their questions asked, but if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com, don't go away, we will be right back.

01:30:09

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01:32:33

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every

01:32:38

Saturday from 12 a .m. to 5 p .m. to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am

01:32:49

.com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the

01:32:54

Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

01:33:01

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study because everyone needs a pastor.

01:33:08

Welcome back. This is Chris Armstrong This is Chris Armstrong This is Chris Armstrong This is

01:33:20

Chris This is

01:33:30

Chris Armstrong This is Chris Armstrong This is Chris Armstrong This is

01:33:35

Chris Armstrong This is Chris This is Chris This is Chris This is Chris This is Chris Armstrong This is

01:33:59

Chris This is

01:34:06

Chris Armstrong This is Chris Armstrong This is

01:34:18

Chris This is Chris Armstrong to air each and every one of those interviews

01:34:40

I conducted. And I thank you so much for sitting down with me at G3 and taking the time to conduct those interviews.

01:34:49

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know, how do you go about writing a devotional guide for reading the

01:34:58

Bible in one year with an emphasis on couples reading it when not everything in the scriptures is involving that issue of marital relationships, et cetera?

01:35:15

Is there a temptation for eisegesis where you're inserting meanings in various passages to make them accommodate the subject of couples when that was never the author's intention?

01:35:31

Oh, that's a great question. Just I'm thumbing through the book right now. Almost every question there is a question that for a couple to discuss that doesn't have anything to do with marriage.

01:35:43

For instance, in Psalm 173, I ask, what conclusion did

01:35:49

Asaph draw about the question about why wicked prosper on earth?

01:35:55

Well, that doesn't have anything to do with marriage. The purpose of the book is not to get people to focus on marriage through scripture.

01:36:01

It's to get them focused on scripture that helps their marriage. Quite a different thing.

01:36:08

And no, and I would feel very ingenuine trying to write a book that just tried to get you to drag a marriage theme out of every scripture, every scriptural passage in the

01:36:20

Bible. Not the purpose of many of them to do anything like that.

01:36:26

So no, that was a good question. And the purpose of the book is for a man and a wife to both know the scripture well enough to talk about it to each other, to be comfortable talking about it to each other, and for the man and a woman to stay on the same spiritual wavelength.

01:36:43

It's also, I have had many single people read through this book and read the questions and just apply them to himself or herself alone without it having anything to do with marriage.

01:36:56

Oh, by the way, I forgot about my own question. Oh, that.

01:37:06

I was hoping you forgot about that. You're gonna try to get me in trouble, aren't you,

01:37:13

Chris? Thanks a lot. No, I'm not trying to get in trouble. And by the way, I did not mean by that that a woman who is not married yet to her fiance is obligated to submit in every area of life just as a wife would.

01:37:29

But don't you think that that should be a developed habit of life if she intends to marry this man to begin even before they're married and in many areas of their fellowship?

01:37:43

I'll answer that in two ways, Chris. One is if I felt uncomfortable submitting to a man spiritual leadership before I got married to him,

01:37:53

I doubt I would feel a lot more comfortable afterward. Yeah, right. I'm just speaking as a woman. I don't know about the specifics of how you grow into that, but I do think that would be a warning flag for a spiritual young man if his perspective wife is not interested in spiritual things and doesn't understand what

01:38:16

I'm about to say next, the principles I'm about to explain next as well. And part two, what

01:38:22

I was about to explain next is in teaching, I use something called the 3D model of reality and it shows that there's a seen and an unseen side to reality.

01:38:32

They're not two realities, but there's only one reality, the part you can see and the part you can't see.

01:38:38

We can't see the unseen principalities and powers and we can't see the angels, we can't see

01:38:44

God, but they're just as real as what we see. Well, just as Christ on earth being visible, submitted to an unseen

01:38:52

God, he showed a structure, shall we say, that is reflected in the church submitting to Jesus Christ and in a marriage and in a corporate worship, this is my opinion,

01:39:10

I know I'm gonna have egalitarians be very unhappy with this, but I believe that it's the same symbol, the same reflection of submission of one to another.

01:39:21

Now, Jesus Christ did not submit to the Father because he was inferior to him. They made a decision to do that and they made a decision to do that because they wanted to show something to the world.

01:39:36

When I sit in a corporate worship and don't take the podium or the microphone away from the preacher, it's not because he's better,

01:39:46

I'm better, or anything else, it's because I want anybody else there that comes into the congregation to see that I'm participating in a symbol that is very, very important.

01:39:56

And in 1 Corinthians, it says that outsiders come into a congregation and they draw conclusions and they say, surely

01:40:04

God is among these people. And what I wanna show in my submission to my husband and to male leadership is, yes,

01:40:14

I want you to see that there's more going on here than meets the eye, that I'm doing things not on the basis of what

01:40:20

I think oughta happen, or who's best equipped, or who has the most education, or who's the best speaker, or who's the best singer, or whatever it is.

01:40:29

I'm doing it because I wanna picture something that God himself pictures, that the unseen has a tremendous power over the same.

01:40:39

So I don't know if that answered the question or not, but that's how I. Well, I think you answered it very well.

01:40:46

And let's see, we have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and BB wants to know, what advice could you give to women of faith in order to prevent them from making foolish decisions by thinking they can develop a romantic relationship with an unbeliever with the mindset that they can lead that person to Christ?

01:41:16

Some religions have even called this kind of thing missionary dating, but I'm actually just speaking of women who are more naive, who perhaps are attracted to men who are more gregarious or outgoing than many of the shy

01:41:32

Christian men are prone to be. Do you have any advice for these sisters?

01:41:39

I hear where BB is coming from, and I do understand what she's saying, but I am an example of someone who was dated by a

01:41:52

Christian, and I was an unbeliever with the thought of bringing me to the Lord. However, we didn't get married until I had made that commitment to Jesus Christ.

01:42:02

I think the danger, the big danger, there is a danger of unprepared, scripturally unprepared personalities trying to, through attraction or dating or whatever, trying to woo someone who's not a

01:42:20

Christian. That is the danger, but the real danger is marrying such a person and thinking you're gonna convert them later, because statistically, that doesn't happen very often.

01:42:31

Right, and I'm sure that although you had a very wonderful outcome to your situation, just because something has worked out well by God's mercy in a certain circumstance doesn't mean it's a model or pattern to follow.

01:42:48

I'll give you an example. I know at least one woman who married an atheist.

01:42:55

She was a Christian when doing so, married an atheist, and the man eventually did repent, believed, was baptized, is an on -fire

01:43:07

Christian, very involved in the church now, and some might view that example as, hey, see, she did it, and look what happened to that guy.

01:43:16

But obviously, just because somebody's experience was blessed by God in spite of it being perhaps disobedient, that doesn't mean that people should follow that example.

01:43:30

That's basically what I'm trying to say to you. Would you agree with that? I don't, yes, that's why I'm saying don't use me as an example.

01:43:37

Don't tell your daughters and sons to go date Mormons thinking that they converted them because I was converted.

01:43:43

I often think of myself as an anvil on which God hammered out so many things in my life, and I'm not saying it wasn't worth it, but boy, what a way to get there.

01:43:59

I wouldn't wish this on anybody. I wouldn't, I'm grateful for what the

01:44:04

Lord has done, but wow, no, I wouldn't advise anybody to try to do it the way my husband and I did it.

01:44:11

He will admit that it was just dumb luck that he knew who to ask and who to get me and that sort of thing.

01:44:18

No, he would say that because he himself did not have the scriptural tools to deal with it. So grace of God is absolutely the grace, the mercy, and the sovereignty of Almighty God who saw in this situation something he wanted to use and praised his name for doing that because he didn't owe me that at all.

01:44:41

We have another anonymous listener who asks, why is it that so many

01:44:47

Christian women seem to be drawn to unbelieving men? Is this failure completely on the part of Christian men who are not appropriately trained in etiquette and socializing skills, or is it something that innately is wrong in what these women are desiring, or could it be a combination of both?

01:45:14

I'll tell you what I told my daughter, and I told my daughter's friends, and I'll just address it if I was addressing my daughter.

01:45:23

I told her, you are a sweet, beautiful girl. You're a spiritual girl. There are men that would benefit from being in a relationship with you and might be made better, but you don't rescue anybody.

01:45:36

That's not your role is to go rescue men through marriage. Your role is to be a

01:45:42

Christian woman and to seek a godly mate so that you can be equally yoked for the rest of your life, and I told her friends the same thing.

01:45:51

I don't care. It would be wonderful to rescue somebody, but you have no guarantee of that, and I do not want you wasting your life trying to convince some man to come to the

01:46:03

Lord when he wasn't inclined to do it to begin with. Amen.

01:46:08

It is odd how, I don't know if it's supernatural forces in the demonic realm or what goes on, but it is amazing when

01:46:20

I have seen people that I know personally who, I'll give you two different examples.

01:46:27

One, a woman who became a Christian. She was not a born -again believer prior to her marriage, and when she became a

01:46:36

Christian, she actually was trying her best to be a more submissive wife than ever before, something that you would think every man would be dreaming and hoping for, and she was not pushing her faith down her husband's throat.

01:46:55

She would only politely ask him on occasion to accompany her to church, and the man got sick of it and abandoned his wife, and he said, if God is in that house,

01:47:11

I'm the other way, I'm leaving. And I've heard the same with a couple of men that I've known who, when they became believers and became more devoted to their wives than ever before and stopped flandering and stopped flirting with other women and on and on and spent much more time at home, the wives left them.

01:47:36

It's just amazing that that can happen, and I don't know if we will ever know this side of glory, why those things happen, but I can't help but sometimes think that there's actually the demonic realm at work in things like that.

01:47:49

No, I would agree. I would agree. We have, I usually don't allow our listeners to have more than two questions, but I'm gonna let

01:47:58

Tyler ask another question. Tyler from Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York says, recently my twin sister was engaged to her fiance on our birthday a week ago.

01:48:10

Is there any practical biblical advice I can give them since they are both Christians? That's a very broad and general question, but a very good one.

01:48:21

Believe that the best advice is to love the

01:48:28

Lord first and have every love they have for one another be downstream from that.

01:48:36

Amen. Obviously, this being his sister, perhaps you have any advice for him when he has private conversations with her because I'm sure you would agree that we shouldn't just automatically throw our hands up and say, well, they're getting married.

01:48:56

There's nothing we can do about it. If they are not yet married, Tyler hasn't said anything about his sister's fiance.

01:49:04

Don't you think that perhaps we should be more bold with people that we love when they are announcing that they're getting married to really start, become thoroughly more examining of this person that your loved one is going to marry and so on?

01:49:29

Obviously, people could take that too far, but is there any advice in that way for Tyler in regard to the protection of his sister?

01:49:41

Tyler, some of the deepest and most grievous regrets of my life are times when

01:49:49

I could have spoken up when I saw a marriage about to happen.

01:49:55

It shouldn't happen. And I feared hurting relationships.

01:50:03

I feared hurting people's feelings, but oh my goodness, how I wish I'd spoken up. Oh my goodness, how much

01:50:10

I wish I had at least said, please don't do this, and here are reasons why.

01:50:16

I will love you to the moon and back forever, no matter who you marry, but please,

01:50:23

I ask you to consider this. I so regret not doing that, Tyler. Amen.

01:50:30

Well, obviously, this is something that has triggered a deep emotion in you, so I am praying right now for this situation, whatever it eventually came to be.

01:50:44

And I would like you to now have at least five minutes of uninterrupted time where you could summarize what you most want our listeners to walk away from this program with in regard to just you, me, and God, and devotional guide for couples reading through the

01:51:00

Bible in one year. I believe God cries out from his heart from heaven, saying my people are destroyed by the lack of knowledge, and that he has given us his personality and his mind in this written record of how he deals with human beings.

01:51:21

He has condescended to let his infinite intelligence be put into our puny human words so that we can understand him.

01:51:32

People throughout history have fought and died for us to be able to have this book.

01:51:40

It is, as the psalmist would say, the words in this book, the words of God's law, the words of God's mind, are the greatest treasure on earth besides our own salvation.

01:51:54

We cannot escape if we ignore this great salvation that is given to us.

01:52:01

Any obstacle that stands in my way or your way of getting to know the

01:52:07

Lord through his word must be removed from your life. You don't have to read my book.

01:52:14

You don't have to have my book. Pick up the word and start reading it. Devote yourself to it, and insist that anyone under your power and authority do the same thing.

01:52:25

If you're a father, set a time that you and your children read the Bible together, you and your wife, let your children see this.

01:52:33

Grandmothers and grandfathers, let your grandchildren see this. Choose books and movies and activities that encourage them to talk about God's word so that he can make that record in heaven, as the book of Malachi said, so that he can make a distinction on earth between those who love his word and those who don't.

01:52:57

He yearns to have this with us. His son has given his life for us, and valiant

01:53:06

Christians through the ages have paid with their lifeblood to give us this book that we so undervalue and we so diminish.

01:53:15

It's the greatest treasure, physical treasure we have on this earth. Amen. Amen.

01:53:23

Well, Latayne, I know that your website is latayne .com,

01:53:30

L -A -T -A -Y -N -E .com, and I'm sure that you post on there any upcoming writing projects that you have, and you have a blog there as well,

01:53:46

I understand, correct? Yes, there's a blog on there, and I'm also on Facebook, and I like interacting with people on Facebook.

01:53:53

To me, that's the social media I'm most comfortable with, and so if someone will ask to friend me, and as long as that person's friendship doesn't become their platform on my page,

01:54:09

I'm happy to interact with people, happy to interact. Yes, Facebook and all that kind of social media can be an extremely valuable tool.

01:54:20

I know that I probably would not have nearly as many listeners as I do without it, but it can become a leech for your valuable time.

01:54:31

It can suck the life out of you and monopolize you, and can distract you, and you can actually turn it into a curse into your life if you allow yourself to get overly wrapped up in that.

01:54:47

That's the truth. And I definitely want our listeners to know that they can hear other interviews that I've conducted with Letain in the past on various subjects, including her conversion out of Mormonism, and also

01:55:05

I highly recommend that you listen to an interview that I conducted with a co -author of hers,

01:55:13

Dr. Stephen Collins, who is a Christian archaeologist, and they,

01:55:18

Letain and Dr. Collins, wrote a fascinating book titled Discovering the

01:55:25

City of Sodom. And I'm assuming, since you co -authored this book with Dr.

01:55:31

Collins, that you are quite as certain as he is that he has indeed discovered that very site of the ancient and wicked city of Sodom, that this is not just a theory.

01:55:43

He really believes with certainty that he has discovered it. Oh, I think when you've got people as authoritative as Dr.

01:55:52

Lane Rittmeyer, who does all of the official drawings for the Israeli government of archaeological sites, he is convinced it's the city of Sodom.

01:56:01

Many other people are coming to see that. Established archaeologists are seeing that this is the only explanation for what they're finding there.

01:56:11

And yes, absolutely, I believe that. And Letain also has a book on hospitality that we discussed on the air.

01:56:19

She has a book on poetry, Passion Power Proxy Release, which we've discussed.

01:56:25

So you can find all of that information at letain .com, letain .com.

01:56:32

And she even wrote a thriller novel that my nephew, who is an award -winning writer of horror fiction, wrote a glowing commendation for.

01:56:48

And he was not expecting to write a glowing commendation for it because my nephew,

01:56:55

Michael, is not a Christian. He's got his doctorate in American literature and he teaches courses at Seton Hill School and Seton Hill College on screenplay writing and other things.

01:57:10

And since he is not a Christian, he had a bias against the kind of literary work that a

01:57:19

Christian might produce, especially in the genre of writing that he champions.

01:57:26

And he was pleasantly shocked by Letain's book and wrote a very, very glowing commendation.

01:57:33

And he did not just write it because he was my nephew and he was trying to make me happy because he even told me beforehand,

01:57:41

I'm gonna tell it like it is, Chris, because the opinion of my readers and fans is very important to me and I don't want them to think that I've slipped in my discernment.

01:57:52

So if I don't like this book, that's what I'm gonna write. And he, sure enough, wrote a wonderful endorsement.

01:57:59

And I know that you hold that endorsement as quite a wonderful gift that you received from him.

01:58:09

Oh, I treasure it, I treasure it. Well, thank you so much, Letain, for being on the program.

01:58:16

I want to let our listeners know that next week our guests include

01:58:22

Joe Carter and Jim Neuheiser and Steve Cooley and Ryan McGraw and Chuck Volo.

01:58:29

Chuck Volo is sure to be a fascinating interview. I had

01:58:35

Chuck on once before, but we had problems with the equipment here and the recording did not come out.

01:58:42

So I'm looking forward to Chuck coming back on. Chuck is one of the very few evangelicals I know who has a ministry to the

01:58:50

Amish and he has led many Amish folks to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

01:58:56

A lot of people just think that the Amish are Christians who live in a unique way, but they have a very, very works righteousness religion that has nothing to do with salvation by grace alone through faith alone.

01:59:10

It's a very meritorious centered works salvation religion where men can even go to hell for wearing the wrong suspenders.

01:59:21

So, I mean, I'm not even joking. But I'm sure you'll be blessed by that if you listen to that a week from today.

01:59:27

But I wanna thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.

01:59:41

I hope you all have a very safe and blessed weekend and Lord's day. And I look forward to hearing from you next week with your questions for our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.