December 14, 2020 Show with Dr. Joe Morecraft on “The Holy Trinity & Its Implications on Salvation, Politics & the Structure of Human Society”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

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We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this

14th day of December 2020.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program Dr. Joe Moorcraft, one of my favorite guests

of all time.

He is an author and pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and he is

going to be addressing the Holy Trinity and its implications on salvation,

politics, and the structure of human society.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back again to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III.

Well, as we always do, especially for the sake of those who are hearing you for the first time,

tell our listeners about Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

With all of our

efforts is evangelism.

Amen.

Well, it fits the description of a church I would certainly want to be a member of if I was

living in the Cumming, Georgia area, that's for sure.

And if you want to look up more information about this church, folks, you can go to

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch

.com.

Now, tell our listeners, for those of them who have not heard about your commentary

on the Westminster Larger Catechism known as Authentic Christianity, an exposition

of the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism, and this

very huge, really phenomenal contribution to the

body of Christ comes, if I'm not mistaken, in eight volumes?

Yes, sir,

it's eightvolumetary .com,

and you'll know.

Amen.

Well, it obviously means a lot to you to be bringing you to such an emotional state over this,

and it blesses my heart to hear that.

And I also want to read a plug for this commentary series, a commendation

by someone who I am confident will be well known to our Reformed

listeners, anyway, our theologically Reformed listeners, which would probably be the majority.

Dr. Joseph A. Piper, Jr., president of Greenville Presbyterian

Theological Seminary in South Carolina, says, Every Christian who is serious

about the Reformed faith and the Westminster standards should have and use this set.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis, as well as

historical and systematic theology.

That is quite a commendation from somebody of the caliber of Dr. Joseph

A. Piper, Jr.

Yeah, I really appreciate it.

Well, today, as I mentioned already in the introduction of the program,

we are going to be discussing the Holy Trinity and its implications on salvation, politics, and the structure of

human society.

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We have done quite a number of programs on the Holy Trinity and in

particular its implications on salvation, but to my knowledge I cannot recall ever doing a program that

involved the Holy Trinity's implications on politics and the structure of human society.

But if you could start the program with a biblical definition

of the Holy Trinity, and obviously you have

those who are in cults or in religions that deny the

Trinity, they will say there is no such thing as a biblical definition, and they will scoff and say the

word isn't even in there.

And I'm sure if they are hearing lectures or sermons or

whatever they call the messages delivered to those that gather

together in whatever religion they're a part of, or whatever they read as far as literature

promoting their religion, I'm sure that they're just not quoting the Bible word for word.

In fact, if somebody is to preach, they're supposed to exegete the Bible.

They have to use their own words as a minister.

In addition, of course, to Bible reading aloud and so on, I'm not trying to undermine

that, but even before you give us a definition of the Holy Trinity,

Joe, isn't what I'm said a very important thing that is a

guardrail of preventing the more

easy derailment of people into heresy, the fact that we need to use

words that have historically been developed to help us better

understand the Bible in a clearer manner, that are

using words that aren't necessarily in the Bible itself?

Yes, sir.

About a trinity...

Even the modern Roman Catholic catechism says that it is the same

God that they adore, which is obviously really seriously

heretical.

In fact, I had a Muslim years ago on my show to debate

a Christian apologist, and I asked him, do you

adore the same one true God as the Roman Catholics do?

He said, absolutely not.

Right.

They understand it's a different God.

Why?

Because the God of Christianity is what,

I mean, no human being in a million years would have...

Going back to just briefly why, or should I say biblical proof,

that when we teach what is in the Bible, when we teach what is

taught in the Bible, the need for using words that aren't

necessarily all in the Bible is that an elder, for instance,

according to the scriptures themselves, needs to be apt to teach.

It doesn't say he needs to be literate and able to read the scriptures

aloud, which of course he would, but he needs to be able to teach,

and teaching is more than just reading exactly the wording that's in the Bible.

It's exegeting it.

It's drawing out of the Bible the truths that are contained in there, which would require,

from time to time, using words that are not in there.

Am I right?

And civilianism, correct?

Yes, sir.

That it's like God

has

three faces,

and

yet

mysterious.

Yes.

There is a very well -known heretic who's an extremely popular author

and speaker.

In fact, he was at one time the best -selling Christian

author in the United States, if not the world, and obviously I use the

term Christian loosely, because that's the way he was described in this survey.

And his name is T .D. Jakes, and T .D. Jakes,

when Trinitarians have urged him and even pled with him

to be crystal clear on what he believes about God in reference to the Trinity,

he has continually said, acting as if he is taking higher ground and more biblical ground,

I will not be forced to use a man -made term like the Trinity, and this is what I believe

about what and who God is, and when he describes it in writing, it's not

the historical view that the Church has embraced for two millennia, over two millennia,

it is a modalist understanding that you were just describing.

And I've even seen on websites of churches,

sometimes I'll get, in fact I frequently get requests from

folks to be guests on this program, and I have to vet them obviously,

and I will typically go to a website and look up

the church where they are a member, where they may be a pastor, an elder, what their church

teaches, and when it comes to the description of God, you will find on some

occasions, again, a refusal to use the word Trinity,

and they may begin in a good way that sounds

orthodox, but then as you read on, you see things begin to fall apart, and you will hear very often

the Holy Spirit, for instance, not described in the language of a person, but of a

force, and the Holy Spirit will be referred

to it, rather than he.

In a way,

not

just one of

the names that only apply to God,

one Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of

them, and we may only worship God.

In fact, we have to pick up right where you left off on the point of worship, because we have to go to our first break.

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Joe Morecraft after these messages from our.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, the host of I Am Sharp in Zion Radio.

If you just tuned this in, our guest today is Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, who is an

author and pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

Today we are addressing the Holy Trinity, its implications on salvation, politics, and the structure of human

society.

And right before the break, Dr. Moorcraft, you were beginning to discuss how each of the three

co -eternal and equal persons of the Godhead receive worship.

And if you could, continue.

Yes,

sir,

I

understand.

We

call God,

given

the

names

of

God,

we

need

to

know

about

predominantly to God the Father, through God the Son, but to

Christ many times during communion.

Right before we read the scriptures, we pray to the Holy Spirit.

So, the implication of the doctrine of the

Trinity is for the way we worship God.

And the second is our understanding

of salvation, as

I'm

sure

you have

had a lot of

other.

Do not be

saved,

salvation.

Now, it's interesting going back to the whole aspect of worship.

I think one of the most clear proofs of the

deity of Jesus, when you are having conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses or anybody else

who has some form of view of God, of Christ, that they

think is a high view of Christ, but it is actually a heretically low view of Christ, because

Jehovah's Witnesses obviously do not believe in the deity of Jesus.

But one of the clearest proofs is the fact that he received worship,

clearly, in the New Testament.

It's inescapable, isn't it?

Preached on

John.

It's about

this.

And it was lying by

the pool

to get

in it,

because

everybody,

they

made

the

Sabbath.

You

couldn't.

In fact, we got a pickup right where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway break.

Yes, sir.

This is a longer than normal break, folks.

Please be patient with us.

Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, always requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show,

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So please keep that in mind.

And we'll be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III on the Holy Trinity, right

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.

I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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Perhaps write down that website and stick it to your refrigerator with a magnet or stick it

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tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio whenever you make a purchase.

In fact, there's a book that features an author.

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He is a contributor to this book.

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make your purchase.

Before we return to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, we just have a few very important announcements

to make.

First of all, tomorrow we have returning to our program a dear friend of mine, Dr. Tom

Askell, who is the Executive Director of Founders Ministries, which is a theologically reformed

ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention.

They are a minority in that huge denomination and have battlegrounds

on many fronts, and they continue to remain steadfast to the

truth, not only the truth of the Bible, which is first and foremost, obviously,

the truth of history, but the truth of their own denomination's founding.

That's why they call it the Founders Conference, because the Southern Baptist Convention, when it was founded, was entirely

comprised of thoroughly reformed men, soteriologically.

So it is quite amazing how that denomination, for the most part, as far as

percentages, has abandoned these precious truths, and some of the pastors within that denomination

have become enemies of these truths.

But Tom Askell has a big surprise that I don't even know what it is, but he is going to be announcing

this big news tomorrow on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

Then on Wednesday, we have a guest that was actually referred to me

by Dr. Joe Moorcraft, my guest today.

His name is Phil Kaiser, and I don't know yet what we're going to talk about.

I'm going to have to straighten it out with Phil tomorrow, most likely.

But he has degrees in education, theology, and philosophy.

He was ordained in 1987 and currently serves as Senior Pastor of Dominion Covenant Church,

a Presbyterian church in Omaha, Nebraska.

And he also serves as Professor of Ethics at Whitfield Theological Seminary and President of the

Providential History Festival.

And Dr. Moorcraft, could you say a few more words about Phil Kaiser, since you were the one that urged me to interview him?

He's one of my very favorite.

People.

Oh, praise God.

Well, that's this Wednesday,

so mark down your

calendar.

In

fact,.

I think I'm going to urge him to discuss December 25th,

Jewish style, the ancient Jewish celebration, anticipating

the birth of Christ.

So that should be very timely.

I don't know if he'll agree to that, but that's one of the booklets that he wrote.

So I'm going to see if I can get him to discuss that.

On Thursday, we've got Ryan Denton returning to the program to discuss his book,

Even If None, N -O -N -E, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism.

And the forward is by my very dear friend, Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa,

where he serves alongside Vodi Baucom and also serves alongside Dr. Baucom

at African Christian University there in Zambia, Africa.

So that should be a fascinating interview if Dr. Mbewe wrote a forward to this book.

It must be excellent.

I have not yet read it, but I'm looking forward to discussing it with Ryan Denton on Thursday.

And then on Friday, we've got Dr. Michael Haken, who is a world -renowned

Baptist historian, and we are going to be addressing his book that he

contributed to with other authors, Strangers and Pilgrims on Earth, Remembering

the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.

And it actually features a contribution by the late Dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones.

So I'm really looking forward to having Dr. Haken back on the program as well.

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Joseph C. Moorcraft III and the Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, for once

again sending in a very urgently needed and very generous gift financially

to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And let me thank you again, Dr. Moorcraft, for actually being a key figure behind that donation.

And I just cannot even describe in words how much I thank you and your congregation for that.

I wish it could be more.

Well, it was plenty.

I'll tell you that much.

It was a very generous gift.

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tens of thousands of you are downloading the show, the audio off of the website, and yet

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I can't wrap my head around that, how we can have so many listeners and so few contributors.

And please, I don't mean to undermine or devalue those few or comparatively few listeners who do

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They have been a godsend.

They are generous and loyal and faithful and they lift my spirits to heights I cannot even

describe.

The encouraging words that often are sent to me by email by these contributors have

delivered me from the depths of depression at times.

So I do want to make sure that my regular donors and even new time contributors never

forget how much I thank them for their sacrifices and their loyalty.

But if you listen to this program, though, and you have never given, please prayerfully consider giving.

That is if you are blessed above and beyond your financial ability to provide for your church and family.

If you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

We would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we truly do need your advertising dollars.

And last but not least, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches

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I may be able to help you find a church, as I have already done, for many people in our audience in all parts of the globe.

So send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address to send in a question to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III on our discussion on the

Holy Trinity.

And the full title of our theme today is The Holy Trinity and its Implications on Salvation Politics and the

Structure of Human Society.

And if you could pick up where you left off, I believe you're talking

about the pool of.

Bethesda.

And

just

if

you

don't

mind

me

inserting

here,

as you

know,

there

are,

though,

libertarians.

Who are strongly pro -life.

And I know that you even supported the presidential candidacy in the past of Rand Paul,

or Ron Paul, I'm sorry, of Ron Paul, who is a very pro -life

medical doctor.

Well, my answer to that is viva la inconsistency.

Well, they would say that the individuals being murdered are a part of the individuals whose.

Rights they're trying to protect.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So praise the

Lord

for

those

libertarians

who are not

consistent

in

human

society.

And

equal

if

they said

the white

race, that

you are a

racist

by

virtue

of being a

member

of

that

group.

Or

if you

are

a

member

of a

non

-white

race,

whatever

you

as an

individual

experience,

you

are.

In fact, we got to pick up because we got to go to our final break.

It's gonna be a lot more brief than the others.

And we'll pick up on that phrase tolerance there.

Very frequently heard word today.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back with more of Joe Morecraft right after these messages.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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Today and always.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and this is the final 15 minutes or so with our guest today, Dr. Joseph C.

Moorcraft III, and we have been discussing the Holy Trinity

and its implications on salvation politics and the structure of human society.

If you have a question, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

We do have a few people waiting to have their questions asked, but I wanted you to finish your thought

on compromise, not compromise, tolerance, where people are demanding

tolerance in a day and age when those very same people refuse to tolerate the existence of a

voice for Christianity in the Bible in the public arena.

Okay, well,

let's

take some

listener

questions.

We

have

Christopher

from

Western

Suffolk

County,.

Long Island, New York.

In fact, he's asking a question that you

actually confirmed.

What he is asking about is a very good book last night

during our private phone conversation on the phone.

Obviously, every phone conversation is on the phone.

There's a redundancy there.

He asks, Christopher asks,.

I have heard about a book by Dr. James E. Dolezal titled

All That is in God, Evangelical Theology and the Challenge of Classical Christian

Theism.

Is this a book you would recommend if you have ever heard of it?

Magnificent

it is.

God

loves

you.

He

doesn't

have...

Well, Christopher, you can also hear an interview I did with James

E. Dolezal on that book.

I did it, we conducted it on August 28th of 2017.

And if you go to irontriponsirenradio .com, if you go to the

podcast past shows section, type in D -O -L -E -Z

-A -L, that's how you spell his last name, you will get that interview come up the audio link.

Also, you could purchase the book from cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, one of our sponsors,

cv as in Cumberland Valley, bbs as in Bible Book Service .com,

cvbbs .com.

We do have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,

just for the sake of clarification, in the event that any of the listeners

misunderstood you, when you were trying to say we should not emphasize whether we are

conservative or liberal when we are Christians, there are some who might

wrongly think you are saying that we should be moderately conservative, but I know, having

heard you on this program, that it has nothing to do with what you are saying,.

So

please

clarify.

I think we

should

be king

of kings, it's

got to be that.

Well, thank you, Ronald.

We have Arnie

in Perry County, Pennsylvania,.

Who says, I know that you just earlier were talking about not being

conservative or liberal, but don't you think that the term conservative is helpful when we are

actually addressing political areas outside of our own congregation or outside of our

conversations with brothers and sisters in Christ, especially because labels can be helpful in

differentiating us.

From other

people?

I'm not

conservative,

I'm distinctively Christian, and that's the way

we must begin.

If we're going to conserve anything, we want to

conserve the Trinity and Christianity.

How would you respond to a person who

you're trying to get people to vote for, let's say you have a

candidate that you are supporting, and perhaps this candidate is a Christian,

perhaps even a Christian from your own congregation, and you are trying to get people in the

community to support him, how would you convince non -Christians

to vote for this person when you're emphasizing, in fact, even exclusively saying, well, we want

to preserve Trinitarian.

Christianity, so that's why we want...

Well, that's a very good question, and a person...

I

remember

that.

And

Jay

Adams

wrote, you

never want to...

I

said,

no,

are

you

as

an

atheist

trying

to get me as a Trinitarian Christian elected

because I know you as a

Christian would preserve.

My wealth and the liberals are robbing me blind?

Well, we are actually out of time, but that was an excellent way to end the program.

And if anybody wants to find out more about our guest, Joe Moorcraft, go to heritagepresbyterianchurch

.com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

You could also go to comprehensivechristianity .com, comprehensivechristianity

.com, where some of Dr. Moorcraft's books are published and offered.

And then don't forget about westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com,

where you can purchase Authentic Christianity, an Exposition of the Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Lord of

Catechism in eight volumes, is it?

Yes, sir.

Eight volumes.

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Moorcraft, for being such a superb guest again.

Thank you, everybody who listened today, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far

greater Savior than you are a sinner.