December 19, 2018 Show with Jason Goodwin on “The Continual & Irreconcilable War: The Flesh Lusting Against the Spirit & The Spirit Against the Flesh”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 19th day of December 2018, and I am delighted to have a guest for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jason Goodwin, who is pastor of the

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First Baptist Church of Shady Grove in Laurel, Mississippi, and he's one of the speakers on the roster at the upcoming

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Deep South Founders Conference in Laurel, Mississippi. Today we are going to be addressing the continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jason Goodwin.

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Brother, it is a joy to be with you, and I'm so thankful to be a part of this conversation as well as the upcoming

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Deep South Founders Conference in January. Yes, I am looking forward to, God willing, meeting you and being in Mississippi for the very first time ever in my life, and from what

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I keep hearing, it is quite a beautiful place, and it's always a joy to visit some place in the

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United States where I have never been before, and I'm looking forward to it. We look forward to having you come and join us down there.

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It's personal testimony of salvation, which is something that I typically do when I'm interviewing a guest for the first time.

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Tell our listeners about First Baptist Church of Shady Grove in Laurel, Mississippi. First Baptist Church Shady Grove is a small church, but it's a church that's been in this area for well over 100 years.

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It was founded in 1888, and it's a beautiful church that's kind of been ministered to the

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North Laurel community for quite some time, the Shady Grove community. It's a member of the

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Baptist Missionary Association of America, as well as the Baptist Missionary Association of Mississippi and our local

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Big Freak Association. It's been a good beacon of the

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Gospel in this area for over 130 years now. Now, praise

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God. Tell us something about Deep South Founders Conference. We will be advertising this throughout the show, but tell us about it.

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Well, most importantly, I think one of the great attractions to the conference this year is going to be our keynote speaker, who is

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Pastor Conrad in Bayway. Yeah, my favorite preacher alive on the planet Earth. I've known Conrad since 1995, and from the first moment

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I heard him preaching on a cassette tape, I was totally blown away, and I have never stopped singing the praises of this dear brother.

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Now, I mean, anytime you can get the African virgin to be the main speaker for a conference,

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I think you're doing pretty well. I had the pleasure of hearing him at one of our local churches here last

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October that had him come in and do a Reformation Day conference for the 500th anniversary of the

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Reformation, and he did a fantastic job. That was my first time to ever hear him in person, and it was, of course, just fantastic.

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And so I definitely look forward to hearing him bring the word and to preach on the doctrine of sanctification for several messages.

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It's going to be great. Yeah, I am sure that our brother Conrad, although he is a native of Zambia, Africa, and still pastors there at Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, where he is also the

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Chancellor of African Christian University, I am sure that he has seen much, much more of the

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United States than I ever have. I think you're exactly right. I know for this trip, he's going to be at the seminary that our church supports.

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It is in Jacksonville, Texas, and he's going to be speaking at that seminary right before the conference.

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I think he's speaking at a conference in Atlanta early in January before the Deep South Founders Conference.

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Yes, I will be at that conference. It's the G3 Conference, and I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there.

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So, when he comes to the states, he packs his schedule full, and it's amazing how he's able to do that because with the travel and jet lag and everything else,

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I don't think it ever really slows him down. At least, it doesn't seem to. I met him when he came to preach at the church where I was a member before moving to Long Island.

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I'm sorry, moving from Long Island to Pennsylvania before I moved here to Pennsylvania.

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I was a member of Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, and Conrad preached for us in 1995, not long after we became a new church.

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Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville merged with First Baptist Church of Merrick, New York, forming

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Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island. Conrad had never been to the

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United States before, and he said it was all new to him, the luxuries and the advanced technology and all that.

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Now, as I said, he has probably experienced more of this country than I have in these years since 1995.

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Undoubtedly. Now, as I said before, I would love for you to give a summary of your salvation testimony.

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What kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

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Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you? I have a boring testimony.

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I had a mom and dad. My dad was the son of a BMA pastor, church planner, missionary growing up, and my mother was raised in a

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Christian home by Christian parents who attended church every Lord's Day, every time the doors were open.

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So when myself and my two sisters were born, that's the same kind of environment we were raised in.

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We were church attenders Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. We were always there.

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My dad was a deacon in our church growing up in South Arkansas, a little town called

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Magnolia. We attended First Baptist Church of Magnolia, and they showed us the gospel every day.

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They weren't perfect. They weren't innocent by any means, but they were faithful to the

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Lord and faithful to his church. They showed us the gospel.

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They gave us the gospel. So when I was around six years of age is when

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I made a profession of faith and followed the Lord since then.

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It hasn't been perfect. I struggled in the faith, especially as I got older, and the temptation grew, and there's a spirit and a war that existed in me between my flesh and how

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I've been raised. As those things began to conflict, it produced some hard moments, but it was the faith that I was raised in that the

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Lord providentially used to bring me to himself to show me his common grace of just faithfulness and having faithful parents, faithful church, friends, and faithful church members.

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It kept me in the faith, and it kept me grounded through my life.

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Praise God. Well, I don't think it's boring at all, brother, when you consider especially the religious climate of the world in the 20th and 21st centuries, that you were from a family that was preserved by God's mercy and grace and the faith, and that you were raised in such a

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God -fearing home. I think that that's a wonderful testimony of the mercy, grace, and power of our

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Lord Jesus Christ in a day and age when the majority of what we see around us is so hostile towards him and his word.

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So I often find myself correcting my brothers and sisters in Christ when they seemed reluctant to give their testimony because they were raised in a

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Christian home. No, no, you're exactly right. We almost kind of feel ashamed sometimes that we don't have a holy type of testimony or anything like that, but I think you're exactly right.

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I think it's just as much the providence of God to raise someone up in a Christian home as it is to call someone on the

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Damascus Road. It's how he works in the lives of unregenerate to bring them to the new birth and to, you know, calling out in repentance and faith.

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Amen. Well, today we are discussing a very vital aspect of the

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Christian life, the continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.

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Not only is this war clearly spoken of in the inerrant, infallible,

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God -breathed scriptures, but it is also a topic in our shared confession that we have, you and I, the 1689

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London Baptist Confession, which is just a summary of biblical truth.

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It makes no claim to be on the same level or even superior to the scriptures.

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It even states that in the very pages of the confession. It's merely a helpful guide and summary that unites brothers in Christ of like mind.

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And this is related to in chapter 13 of the 1689, or sometimes called the

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Second London Baptist Confession, in the second paragraph. Tell us about the

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London Baptist Confession of faith in summary form and why this is the particular subject that you would like to speak on today.

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Yeah, I think for all historic Baptists, especially those of us who are mindful of the importance of historic

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Baptist belief and faith and confession, the 1689 matters a lot because it allows us to point back to our roots as Baptists.

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And it's kind of funny, I say that as our roots, my tradition that I come out of or still am part of is more of a kind of a landmark tradition, you know, that wants to trace their roots back to the shores of Galilee.

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But when we see our first kind of documents as Baptists on what we believe, you know, the 1689, this kind of rings out as a testament of the faithfulness of early

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Baptist leaders and what they saw from the scriptures and they saw from, benefited from the other traditions around them and putting together, you know, the 1689 and how it's lasted.

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It just amazes me that here we are, you know, hundreds of years later, still delighting in the same truths that these dear brothers mined for us and brought out as being the hallmarks of what it means to be

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Baptistic, what it means to be, you know, covenantal, reformed Baptists and how these things still benefit our churches and benefit believers today.

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And the subject of sanctification that we'll be covering at the Deep South Founders Conference is so important, as we've already kind of mentioned in the day in which we live, because it is the work of the

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Spirit in drawing the children of God closer into relationship with Him through our growth in the faith, our maturity in the faith, realizing that we're not yet perfected, that we still live in this already and not yet in this fallen world, but yet we are pursuing the holiness of God, we are pursuing what is right, what is given to us in the

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Scriptures, and that this war that we're in is something we have to understand, because it's a tough fight.

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It is a hard fight for any believer, new believer, old believer. We are constantly dealing with our old man and trying to put him to death and trying to put the desires of the flesh away and it is this war that we stay with, and so that's really what appealed to me when

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I was presented with the opportunity to speak and given the choice of topics, because I know in my own life how hard this fight has been and how weary I've grown at times in fighting my flesh and fighting my old

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Adam and how important it is for us to understand today that what the world needs to see from believers is a willingness to fight against the flesh, to fight against these things that are wrong and live in the

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Spirit, and that's what I hope to convey when I have the opportunity to preach at the conference.

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You mentioned the Landmark Baptists, where your roots are. Were you from the branch that were

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Sovereign Grace -believing Landmark Baptists, because I know that they have a divide amongst them. There are some that are lovers of the doctrines of Sovereign Grace and there are some that despise those doctrines.

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I think my branch was somewhere in the middle. We have some that have always loved and enjoyed the doctrines of grace, while others kind of found them a bit stinging.

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So we're somewhere in the middle. Like I said, our current seminary and president, he's really done a good job of bringing these things to the forefront for our association and kind of reminding our people where we come from.

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You know, our statement of faith for the Baptist Missionary Association of America is based on the

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New Hampshire Confession of Faith, which is a

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Calvinistic Reformed Confession. I mean, some people don't like to admit it, but it really is. And we can trace our history through the

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New Hampshire back to, you know, the Philadelphia in 1689. So our roots are there.

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People may not like those roots, but that's where they are. Yeah, I always love sharing with my

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Landmark Baptist friends who hate the doctrines of grace. I love reminding them or informing them for the first time that a much -beloved book among them,

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The Trail of Blood by J .M. Carroll, I love telling them that J .M.

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Carroll was a thoroughgoing Calvinist. Yes, yeah, many of them were, and it may be hard for them to come to grips with sometimes, but yeah, that's the truth.

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In fact, I don't know if you're familiar with Jack Green. He used to be the editor of the Landmark Baptist Messenger, and he was a thoroughgoing

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Calvinist as well. I believe he's on the mission field now. I can't remember where exactly, but he used to be there in Texas editing,

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I believe, or managing the Landmark Baptist Messenger. But I've heard sermons by him that were quite powerful and quite saturated with the doctrines of sovereign grace.

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Amen, amen. Well, this topic really leads to a divide, actually, amongst

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Brethren in Christ about the issues involving the new creation that we are in Christ and how that relates to the old man.

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There are some complicated issues, some of which people have become decidedly on one side or another in these areas, and there are some that would say that there are things that are going to remain a mystery until we're in glory about this.

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But tell us about this. If we are a new creation in Christ, why is it that we sin every day?

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There's probably not a minute in our lives where there's not some kind of a sin that we are committing mentally or otherwise, but tell us about that.

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This is a very mysterious issue. No, it really is, because I think the clearest evidence for me is that our sin, our daily sin, is not tolerable.

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We readily admit that, but we have to admit that it's evident, and we know that it is, because we still fight the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, every minute of every day, and we're constantly giving in to these things in some degree or the next.

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And so we have to admit that sin is still ever -present in us, and as John tells us in his epistle, if we deny that we have sinned, then we make

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God to be a liar. And so we have to admit that our sin, while it's defeated on the cross through Christ, it's still a struggle for us, because we live in the already and not yet.

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We live in the fallen world, and we're still fallen creatures, and so we're still struggling with the effects of the falls in and around us, and we have to understand this, because if we get so focused on thinking that our only enemy is outside of us, that it's not our flesh, that it's not our hearts, then we begin to point at everything else as the problem.

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You know, if my wife were as sanctified as I am, if my children were as sanctified as I am, if my church members were as sanctified as I am, you know, if the news, if the president, if you name it, if everything outside of us is the problem, then what we're really saying, whether we realize it or not, is that,

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God, if you would just fix all this outside of me, then everything else would be great in my life.

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And that's not the truth. The truth is that I'm still struggling with my sin.

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The biggest problem in my marriage, as Paul Tripp likes to say, you know, I am the biggest problem in my marriage, because it's my sin in my marriage.

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It's my sin, even when I'm trying to parent my children, that causes the biggest problem, because I'm still not perfected.

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I may be covered in the righteousness of Christ, and none of us question that, especially as Reformed Calvinistic people.

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We know that we are saved by the righteousness of Christ, that it is His righteousness that covers us, that makes us able to stand in the presence of the

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Father one day. We know all of these things. But here, right now, on planet

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Earth, it is still this struggle that I have with sin, and I have to admit that, or I'm not going to fight this battle that I'm called to fight in Scripture the right way.

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I'm going to give our email address, if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for our guest today about this very important topic, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and I could readily see a subject like this, the continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh,

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I could readily see that lending itself to people having personal and private questions that would compel them to remain anonymous.

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So you may feel free to remain anonymous, but please only remain anonymous if it is about a personal and private matter.

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That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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We do have a listener, Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks, since we who are believers in sovereign grace do not believe that a truly regenerate, born -again believer can lose his or her salvation, it is problematic sometimes when judging whether oneself or a professing brother or sister is truly born again because they have fallen into a season of serious unrepentant sin.

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Since the Bible never gives us a timeline where we can say after a certain length of time a person who is still remaining unrepentant can be deemed as a false convert who is never born again to begin with, how do we determine whether we ourselves or those around us are truly born again and brothers in Christ?

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I think this is where the local church and meaningful church membership and meaningful church discipline all come into play.

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I think when you have a church that understands that it is our responsibility as local bodies to receive people on the testament of their faith.

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We baptize them if they've not been baptized. We baptize them with that confession in mind, and so they show that this is a sign of the covenant, that you're confessing

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Christ, you're coming and you're joining this body of believers under this confession with the agreement that of all the things that we may covenant together to believe.

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And if I as a church member, if we as church members begin to see things in the life of that believer that is not consistent with the gospel and not consistent with what they've confessed, this is where the church steps in.

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Elders and other brothers and sisters, and of course, you know, following instructions in scripture like Matthew 18 and others, this is where they go to that brother or sister and they say, hey, we think you're out of line with what the scripture calls us to.

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There seems to be some evidence in your life publicly, or however it may be manifesting itself, and in love and in grace and with the desire for reconciliation, you know, they go to that brother or sister and they work these things out, and hopefully that concern and that love and care for one another brings them back.

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But if it doesn't, there's always that step of church discipline, as Paul talks about in 1

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Corinthians and everywhere else, that have to be willing to say to that brother or sister, you're not aligning with scripture, and because we love you, we're going to need you to understand you can't be a part of this body.

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You can't be a part of this family if you're denying what we've covenanted together to believe and to practice and to look like as believers, and for their good, you must remove them from time to time.

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And hopefully, if they're genuinely converted, if they've been born again, being outside of the fellowship of God's people, the

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Spirit's going to work in their life, and they're going to realize, hey, I've made a big mistake. I need to repent.

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I need to go back to these people. I need to confess and tell them they're right. And yeah, it may take a little bit of time, but ultimately, if they're genuine converts, they're going to want to be in the church with the people of God, with their brothers and sisters.

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They're going to want to repent of that sin, because that's what the scripture calls us to. And I think that's the best way, through these things that the

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Lord has given us, the local church, the administering of the Word, faithful church membership, that's how we're able to kind of recognize, hey, is this person a genuine believer, or is this person outside of the faith?

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Yes, and wouldn't you agree that, since there are things involved in the human heart that only

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God knows, we as fallible, sinful human beings ourselves, even the most godly of Christians, cannot read the heart with infallibility, that we are commanded in scriptures not to make definitive proclamations about those things that only

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God knows when it comes to these matters. Even if someone, in theory, is truly of the elect and perhaps truly regenerate, but just in a season of sin, we have to treat them as if they are unbelievers.

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Not that we know that with a hundred percent certainty, but for their benefit, and for the benefit of the body of Christ, and for the benefit of the community around us, and for the praise, honor, and glory of God, to remove reproach from the church as much as possible, we have to identify these folks that are in our midst, put them under discipline, and if they continue in their rebellion unrepentantly, we have to go to the next measure of excommunication.

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I say this also as one who has experienced church discipline. I, after 18 years of sobriety years ago, fell back into the sin of drunkenness unrepentantly for a number of years, and it was increasing in its severity, and I thank

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God for the discipline that I underwent by loving undershepherds, whom the

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Lord used to draw me back to sanity, sobriety, and good standing within the church.

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And I also thank Hebron Colony Ministries, a non -profit

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Christian ministry in Boone, North Carolina, which is a drug and alcohol recovery ministry, and they also have a sister ministry for women called

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Grace Home in Santee, South Carolina. But isn't this the truth? Many Christians find this to be harsh, cruel, how dare you question this person's salvation?

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Because I've known them for years, and just because they're sinning now, I've known that they made believable professions and walked with the

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But even if a person has been walking with Christ for decades, he could still be a false convert, and other than that, even if he is a true convert, we still, according to the

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Scriptures, if this sin is severe enough and unrepented of, they have to be treated like unbelievers.

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Am I right? Yeah, I do think that that's the final step, definitely. I think there's kind of that in -between step that you're referencing that Paul talks about in 2

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Thessalonians 3, when he says, as for you brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him that he might be ashamed.

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Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. I think there is that period that you're still warning that person as a brother, but if they continue to show signs of not repenting, of rejecting wise counsel, of rejecting biblical direction on what they are to do, then yeah, then

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I think that final step, as Christ says in Matthew 18, you treat them like a tax collector and a sinner.

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You can't continue to validate their membership and their faith in Christ if they're not validating what that faith is supposed to look like.

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Because we don't serve them well if we're not being honest with how they're living.

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If they've given in to this fight between the flesh and the spirit, and if they're living as Galatians tells us, if they're living instead of by the virtues of the spirit, and they're living by the virtues of the flesh, then we have to assume that they're of the flesh.

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We have to, for their sake and for their good. Because if we assume the other while they're living in the flesh, we're not loving them.

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All we're doing is giving them an easy conscience as they continue down the road to hell. And if we truly believe there's a hell, then we have to, for the sake of their good, call them to repentance before it's everlasting too late.

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Yes, I might not be alive right now and conducting this radio program if it were not for the fact that I was placed under church discipline.

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And of course, there are churches, sadly and tragically, that have abused that necessary element of Christian life in a church, and who have been overly harsh, who have been dictatorial, and have even disciplined people for sins that aren't even really sins.

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Yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. But at the same time, I thank God for the discipline

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I received because I am alive today and may not be because of the severity of my drinking problem or sin of drunkenness.

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We're going to be going to a station break right now. If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, just like Arnie in Perry County, send us an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

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Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, God willing. We're going to be right back with Jason Goodwin, pastor of First Baptist Church of Shady Grove, Laurel, Mississippi, and speaker at the

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Deep South Founders Conference. On our theme, the continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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New Covenant Church NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

37:24

.nyc. Have a great day. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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Dan has a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

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Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the

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Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

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Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

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Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.

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Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

39:03

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. I'm Dr.

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Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

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In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

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Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

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What was I to do? Could I just say, God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

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As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

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The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

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If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

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So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans. In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

40:04

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or donate through our website bbclaurel .com.

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Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or bbclaurel .com.

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Thank you. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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So the more you help them remain in existence, the more you help us remain in existence.

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And please make sure you tell Solid Ground Christian Books that you heard about them from Chris Arnsen at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

42:41

We are now back with our discussion with Pastor Jason Goodwin of First Baptist Church of Shady Grove in Laurel, Mississippi, also one of the speakers at the upcoming

42:51

Deep South Founders Conference in mid to late January. And we are discussing the continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh.

43:03

If you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

43:12

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

43:18

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves personal or private matter. We have a question from John in Bangor, Maine, who says,

43:27

I know that there is a disagreement amongst Christians that even those who believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace and are

43:36

Reformed Baptists disagree over. This is the issue of whether in Romans 7,

43:43

Paul is speaking about in the present tense as a born -again believer and an apostle of Christ in regard to his ongoing sin, or is he speaking about his former life as the fire -breathing murderer and zealot soul of Tarsus before his rebirth?

44:04

That's a very good question, and I happen to know that our listener is right, that I've even experienced and have been witness to a debate years ago between two brothers, or at least two brothers, who disagreed over this issue at the

44:21

Bunyan Conference in Pennsylvania, and I have heard brothers in Christ who disagree have loving but sometimes heated discussions where they disagree over this.

44:33

In fact, I'm going to turn to Romans 7 in the

44:40

New American Standard Bible, the updated edition, and we have, starting at verse 14, we have the

44:50

Apostle Paul saying, For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, so into bondage to sin.

45:01

For what am I doing? I do not understand, for I am not practicing that would

45:08

I like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing

45:14

I do not want to do, I disagree with the law, confessing that the law is good.

45:20

So now no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

45:27

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh, for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

45:36

For the good that I want I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

45:43

But if I am doing the thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin dwells in me.

45:51

I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

45:58

For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of the sin which is in my members.

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Wretched man that I am, who will set me free from the body of this death?

46:22

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then, on the one hand

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I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other with my flesh the law of sin.

46:43

Very powerful yet controversial passage of the God -breathed word through the writing of the

46:50

Apostle Paul in Romans 7. So if you could give us your take on that. No big deal, right?

47:00

No big deal. Here's how I think Paul's talking about a very present thing.

47:06

I think that the language indicates that. He changes his tone, or not the tone, but he changes the tense from 7 to 13 where he's talking about the past to verse 14 which seems to be very much in the moment.

47:21

And I know even great brothers have disagreed on this as you said, but it does seem that Paul is trying to get us to understand.

47:30

And again, it would make sense that he's talking about this struggle between the flesh and the spirit, the struggle of how do we continue to fight this flesh, the flesh that we're born in, this heart of flesh, this old man, this old

47:44

Adam, that we have to be reminded that this is a continuous fight.

47:50

And that although we've been redeemed, we've been saved, we've been regenerate, we've been born again, that we still have this old man, we still have this flesh that is fighting against us.

48:02

And this is a real and present fight. And this is the heart and crux of what it means to be sanctified, right?

48:08

That our sanctification, while it is a work of the Spirit, our sanctification is being worked out in our fighting against this flesh, this old man, this sinful nature that doesn't want to give up the fight.

48:27

And that's the real and present experience that all of us as believers have.

48:35

Again, I don't think that any believer, any true believer would deny that struggle that they continue to have with sin.

48:45

And so I don't think Paul is in any way excusing it. I don't think he's saying it's okay to give in.

48:52

I think that he's reminding us that even he, the Apostle Paul, fights against this flesh, and that we have to continue to fight against it, because we can't allow it to ruin our lives, ruin our faith, or ruin what we believe in our hearts and heads that God has done through Christ for us.

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Even though I agree with you, and I pretty much, for the entirety of my

49:25

Christian walk that I can remember, have agreed with you that this is a present tense description of the

49:31

Apostle Paul describing himself, there are words that seem to, at least on the surface, conflict with those of us who are

49:43

Reformed, who believe in what has now been nicknamed, since the 1980s at least,

49:49

Lordship Salvation. We believe that repentance is necessary for true salvation.

49:55

We don't believe that there are carnal Christians who are still in bondage to sin because they have been set free from their bondage through the death of Christ, and yet you have the

50:10

Apostle Paul saying, I am a flesh sold into bondage to sin.

50:17

And you have kinds of phrases that he uses that seem so severe. You wonder, is he using hyperbole because of the experiences that he is feeling?

50:26

He is so furious at his own heart and mind because he is an apostle especially, who has been given the very oracles of God that God breathed through him, which he in his own hand penned, or through a scribe, an amanuensis

50:48

I believe they're called. But how do you explain the severity of the language if he is speaking about himself as a new creation and born -again believer?

51:00

Yeah, I think to me the severity of the language is the reality that sin is still...

51:07

it's a big deal, right? I mean, sin should be mourned over. Sin of any degree should be grieved over.

51:15

It's only in our flesh that we become so okay with any level of sin.

51:26

I mean, regardless of how we want to categorize it, I think any sin should cause us to grieve.

51:32

I think any sin should cause us to want to use language like he does when he says this evil that is present in me.

51:40

This wickedness that is still here. It's very much the struggle that we have.

51:48

I think to downplay it, to pass over it, is not to do our sin justice.

51:56

Our sin that we commit, the sin that we struggle with, our flesh, it took the

52:02

Son of God on the cross to put away our sin and to appease the wrath of God that was against us for our sin.

52:10

How could we for one second not see that our sin is a serious issue, and that we have to fight against this flesh in the

52:19

Spirit each and every day as true children of God? I think that's the reason for the language that he uses.

52:28

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who asks,

52:35

I think that there should be a balance in the Christian life. On the one hand, if the sins we are committing are so severe and egregious and scandalous, we should question our own salvation and fall to our knees in repentance and cry out to God to be saved.

52:56

On the other hand, there are Christians who are going through a nightmarish existence constantly questioning whether they are truly of the elect and truly born again and have a joyless faith.

53:08

How do we strike the balance in this situation? Oh, that's such a good question.

53:14

I'm reminded of Piper when he did his biography of William Cooper, the hymn writer, who very much struggled with what was called back then melancholy.

53:28

He attempted suicide. Yeah, exactly. You're right. I mean, this is...and so, the very real presence of depression, anxiety, the weightiness of sin in this fallen world is always going to be a struggle.

53:48

And it's a reminder that, just as in Ecclesiastes, Solomon talks about the toil, the toil of this life.

53:59

Because we live under the fall. Adam in the garden, when

54:05

God curses Adam, he says, thorns and thistles, right, that is what you will reap from now on.

54:18

We struggle in this life because of everything around us that is affected and damaged and broken by the fall.

54:28

Every relationship, everything that we see, everything that we know, and even the best of us, so to speak, can still be overwhelmed by all of the brokenness that is around us.

54:45

And the constant toil of seeing thorns and thistles produced when we're working hard, when we're reaping, when we're sowing, when we're doing the things that we're supposed to do, and yet the scripture reminds us not to lose heart.

55:03

What is required of you, O man? To love your God and to obey His commands.

55:09

We mustn't think that this world in which we live, no matter what eschatology you hold to or anything else, we mustn't confuse this world for the one that is to come.

55:23

And then here in this world, in all of its fallenness and all of its brokenness, and with our in -between already and not yet, there are going to be times, seasons, where we have to fight for joy, and it may seem like joy never comes, and yet the scripture says joy comes in the morning, and that we have to continue toiling, and we have to continue fighting for these things, even though they may elude us until we stand before the

55:57

Father. Amen. We have to go to our midway break now. It's a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, I'm sorry, what am

56:08

I thinking of? Yes, Grace Life Radio. I got distracted by an email from a listener that came in.

56:16

Because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, which airs

56:21

Iron Sherpins Iron Radio Daily, they have to localize this program to the Lake City, Florida area with their own public service announcements and commercials, so therefore they require of us this midway break where they air their own content.

56:38

So please be patient with us as we take this longer than normal break, and use this time wisely to write down questions for our guest

56:46

Jason Goodwin on this very important topic of the war between the spirit and the flesh, and also please write down the information provided by our advertisers because that will enable you to more successfully and more frequently patronize them, and if you do that we are more likely going to remain on the air because we rely on the advertising dollars of our sponsors to exist.

57:11

So please patronize our advertisers as much as you can, and to do so please write down the information that they provide during this break.

57:20

And of course, once again, if you have a question for Jason Goodwin on the war between the spirit and the flesh, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

57:32

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

57:42

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back with Jason Goodwin and our discussion on the war between the spirit and the flesh.

58:10

James White here, co -founder of Alpha and Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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I'm so delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme,

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A Biblical Understanding of Missions. Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, yours truly, and many more.

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I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event. For more details, go to g3conference .com,

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that's g3conference .com. One sure way all

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01:04:51

Hello, I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, senior pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, and I'm hoping that many of you who listen to Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program will join

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Chris and me at the Deep South Founders Conference, Thursday, January 24th, through Saturday, January 26th, here in Laurel.

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If you love God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached, I can assure you that you will not be disappointed.

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Our speakers at the Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and our keynote speaker all the way from Zambia, Dr.

01:05:28

Conrad Mbewe, who has received the nickname the Spurgeon of Africa, and I, for one, believe it's a very accurate description of Brother Conrad.

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For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com. That's deepsouthfounders .com.

01:05:46

I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners,

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January 24th, through January 26th. Thank you. My name is

01:05:58

Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

01:06:04

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

01:06:10

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

01:06:16

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

01:06:23

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

01:06:31

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

01:06:37

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:06:54

.nyc. Have a great day. Hello, my name is

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You'll find more information at irvsseminary .org. That's irvsseminary .org,

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two S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

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So, just keep that in mind for your Christmas shopping needs. We just have a few announcements to make about some upcoming events that we want you to be aware of before we return to our discussion with Jason Goodwin on the war between the spirit and the flesh.

01:11:24

First of all, tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my two very dear friends going back to the 1990s,

01:11:33

Dr. William Webster and Rev. David T. King are returning to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for part two of The Lie of Rome that Sola Scriptura was invented by the

01:11:46

Reformers. Dr. William Webster is the pastor of Grace Bible, Church of Battleground Washington, and the founder of Christian Resources, and he's also the author of The Church of Rome at the

01:11:58

Bar of History and Salvation the Bible in Roman Catholicism, which are two titles that Banner of Truth publishes.

01:12:07

And Rev. David T. King is an ordained minister having served in the Presbyterian Church in America, otherwise known as the

01:12:13

PCA, and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, otherwise known as the OPC, and he's the co -author with Dr.

01:12:19

Webster of the massive, monumental, groundbreaking, three -volume work, Holy Scripture, the

01:12:26

Ground and Pillar of our Faith. So, make sure you mark your calendar to join us tomorrow for part two of The Lie of Rome that Sola Scriptura was invented by the

01:12:36

Reformers. Then, as far as an actual event you can attend, on Thursday, January 3rd, from 11 a .m.

01:12:45

to 2 p .m., Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is having our next free luncheon for men in ministry leadership.

01:12:52

This is being sponsored by our friends at BatteryDepot .com, LinbrookBaptist .org, and NASBible .com,

01:13:00

the publishers of the New American Bible. It's going to be held at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and our featured speaker is my friend

01:13:10

Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

01:13:16

He's going to be speaking on the theme, The Meaninglessness of Life and the Destruction of Western Society Without God.

01:13:22

This is absolutely free of charge. There's nothing for sale at these luncheons. There is no hidden agenda or ulterior motive.

01:13:30

This is purely intended to give men in the ministry a time of rest, relaxation, fun, fellowship, and a powerful message from the

01:13:39

Word of God that will help further equip them for their ministerial duties. And also, most of the major Christian publishers in the

01:13:48

United States and the United Kingdom over the years have donated to us brand new books to give away to each and every man that attends.

01:13:57

So you don't want to miss out on this opportunity. If you could get there to Carlisle or should I say get here to Carlisle, Pennsylvania by train, plane, or automobile, please

01:14:07

RSVP by January 1st. But send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com if you'd like to attend.

01:14:13

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put luncheon in the subject line and we will have you registered for the free event.

01:14:22

Then Dr. Costa is going to be sticking around this area for the next few days after the luncheon.

01:14:29

From Friday, January 4th to Sunday, January 6th, Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary will be speaking at the

01:14:37

Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania. And this is an event that I helped arrange with my friend who is the pastor there at the

01:14:48

Enola First Church of God, my friend George Jensen. This conference will be on the theme

01:14:54

Contending for the Faith, The Church in a Postmodern World. And as I said, that's January 4th through the 6th,

01:15:00

Friday through Sunday. It's also free of charge and unlike my pastor's luncheon, this event is open to everybody, man, woman, or child,

01:15:09

Christian or non -Christian. We would love to see you there. In fact, we'd especially love to see you there if you're not

01:15:15

Christian at all. But for more details, go to enolacog .com, that's e -n -o -l -a -c -o -g .com

01:15:25

forward slash bible -conference. And you could also call the

01:15:31

Enola First Church of God for details at 717 -732 -4253, 717 -732 -4253.

01:15:38

Or you can email me, Chris Arnzen, at chrisarnzen at gmail .com and put the conference or Tony Costa conference in the subject line.

01:15:50

Then coming up later on in the month, the G3 conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically

01:15:57

College Park, Georgia at the Georgia International Convention Center where I will be manning an exhibitor's booth,

01:16:03

God willing, for Iron Trip and Zion Radio for the third year in a row. I am so excited about this event from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th.

01:16:13

There's actually going to be a pre -conference event featuring my friend James White and others on Wednesday, the 16th of January that involves the

01:16:22

Social Justice Warrior movement, so you might want to make sure you attend that. If you have

01:16:28

Spanish -speaking friends or bilingual friends that speak Spanish, you might also want to tell them about the exclusively

01:16:35

Spanish -speaking edition of the conference on that same day, Wednesday, January 16th. But the English -speaking conference itself from the 17th through the 19th of January includes

01:16:45

Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

01:16:50

Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson. We have Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio and Stephen J.

01:16:57

Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that roster.

01:17:05

Go to G3conference .com to register. There may be some free seats available because somebody donated a block of seats for those of you who have not yet been to the

01:17:21

G3 conference, who perhaps can't afford it. Ask them about that to see if there's any free seats left.

01:17:27

Also, if you have a business or parachurch organization or a church or a special event that you want to promote, because there's going to be between four and five thousand people expected there, register for an exhibitors booth if there is still room in addition to registering for your attendance.

01:17:44

That's G3conference .com, G3conference .com, and remember the G3 stands for gospel, grace, and glory.

01:17:50

And then the conference that we have been discussing with our guest today, Jason Goodwin, the

01:17:56

Deep South Founders Conference, is coming up from January 24th through the 26th at the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi on the theme of sanctification.

01:18:05

And the conference includes such speakers as our guest Jason Goodwin, Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Bobby Crenshaw, and the keynote speaker

01:18:15

Dr. Conrad Mbewe, whom I believe is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet Earth. For more details on registering, go to DeepSouthFounders .com,

01:18:24

DeepSouthFounders .com. Last but not least, if you want Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio to remain on the air, we have some crucial bills that need to be paid that are still unpaid.

01:18:35

We need your help more than ever. We are entering into another scary time financially, so please help us out with as much financial support as you can muster by going to IronSherpa'sIronRadio .com,

01:18:47

click support, then click click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card that way, and you could also mail in a check to the address that appears on the screen when you click support at IronSherpa'sIronRadio .com

01:19:04

if you prefer snail mail. Keep in mind I never want anybody siphoning money away from the regular giving that they're accustomed to to their local church where you are a member in order to give to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio, and never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

01:19:20

Those two things are commands of God to provide for your church and family. Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, please give as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can.

01:19:34

If you love the show, go to IronSherpa'sIronRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now, and you could advertise with us as well if whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe.

01:19:45

You don't have to believe identically with what I believe, but you need to be promoting something that's compatible with what I believe.

01:19:51

If you are without a church home and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you're living in rebellion against God, please send me an email if you need help finding a church home wherever you live, anywhere in the world.

01:20:01

I have lists of faithful churches all over the globe. I can help you find a church. I've helped many in the

01:20:06

Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio audience find churches near them. Send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:20:12

and put I need a church home in the subject line or something like that. You could also use that address as I said before to send in a question to our guest

01:20:21

Jason Goodwin about the war between the spirit and the flesh, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

01:20:27

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:20:33

Otherwise, please give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

01:20:43

USA. We do have an anonymous listener from overseas who has a question for you

01:20:50

Pastor Jason and I'm just enlarging the font on the email so that I can read it.

01:20:59

Okay, anonymous asks, hi Chris, thank you for your show. Sometimes I cringe at the phrase church discipline as I and many others have been spiritually abused by Christian leaders in their zeal to purge the church or group of those who disagree with them not on major theological issues but just their own interpretation of scripture.

01:21:22

I have seen and experienced horrendous damage done by power -driven men who are not trained in the ministry but were self -appointed.

01:21:31

Many of the people I know back then have turned their backs on the Lord as they were young Christians and looked up to these leaders.

01:21:40

They are damaged and abused Christians. I believe that if a leader does not deal with his own issues there is a great possibility that he will eventually damage one of his flock if not many.

01:21:53

Thanks be to God through their expulsion of me I have come to know the doctrines of sovereign grace and see

01:22:00

God's sovereign rule over my life. I am truly blessed. Anonymous from overseas. So do you have an answer for that abuse that does go on under the name of church discipline?

01:22:14

Yeah I think again it's evidence of all of our ability to to misapply the scriptures or to even go beyond that to be abusive in our application of scriptures.

01:22:30

I think this is why we need churches that have faithful elders and accountability to their elders.

01:22:39

I think anytime you have a church structure where the congregation is removed from decision making and being able to rightly hold its leaders accountable while leaders also work to hold the church accountable, that there has to be a mutual trust and a mutual understanding between the two.

01:22:59

I'm a firm congregationalist so even though I believe that the scripture is clear that the church should be led by a plurality of elders, number one

01:23:09

Christ is the head of the church, number two the church has authority in all these matters because we see

01:23:16

Christ in Matthew 18 ultimately where are those who are being disciplined, where are they to take the discipline?

01:23:25

Not to the elders but to the church and so it is the church that practices this and if merely an elder or an elder board is disciplining members according to their whim and it's not the church that is taking a part in this, that's where I think abuse happens more times than not.

01:23:49

When you have a congregation that is still voting, still checking and providing kind of a checks and balances to the elders,

01:24:00

I think that happens less and I think that kind of helps pastors stay accountable to the word and to the church and to one another when there's that mutual respect and mutual accountability.

01:24:17

Yes and I'm sure you would agree that the Christian life is not easy and just because we have been sinned against even in horrible ways that does not give us liberty to abandon the church.

01:24:31

The apostle Paul was persecuting the church when he was soul of Tarsus and when

01:24:40

Christ appeared to him on the road to Damascus he said,

01:24:47

Saul why dost thou persecute me? And yet the Lord had already been crucified and risen and ascended into heaven.

01:24:56

Paul was persecuting the church and yet Christ equated his church with himself in this instance.

01:25:03

So we cannot take lightly opposing or abandoning or being at war with the church even if there are false churches.

01:25:10

In fact when we encounter a false church or false leaders it just once again proves the reliability and truthfulness of the

01:25:19

Bible because the Bible contains instances of false teachers and false churches and so on.

01:25:25

So as I have said to people who have given up on the church some of them have been members of cults or some of them have been members of churches that were even confessionally faithful but acted like cults in the way that they had authoritarian rule and harsh discipline beyond what the

01:25:43

Bible permits. I've told them that they cannot reject Jesus because of Judas.

01:25:50

I mean if Judas was one of the 12 apostles and he is the one that turned over Christ to his executors and betrayed him, why would we think that that could be impossible in the 21st century for men who claim to be pastors to be wolves in sheep's clothing?

01:26:10

No and I think you're exactly right and that's where you know the Christian faith is not a Lone Ranger faith, right?

01:26:17

I mean it's not a faith that is to be lived out individually. It's a faith that calls us into fellowship with other believers, with other brothers and sisters and you cannot neglect that need for accountability because in fighting this war, this war between the flesh and the spirit, you need the help of a local church.

01:26:39

You need the help of brothers and sisters. You need the help of faithful pastors and other people who are going to hold you accountable and who are going to preach the word to you.

01:26:49

Just the common means of grace through preaching and singing and prayer and the observance of the ordinances when we gather together on the

01:26:57

Lord's day. These are all things that the scripture, that the Bible, that God himself has instituted to be that which aids us in this fight against the flesh and when you forsake that, the gathering of the saints, either because somebody has been abusive either in some sort of manner, you are forsaking the means in which

01:27:21

God has given to his children to prepare them for what they will encounter in the world and that's why churches need to be places where they are healthy and faithful because it's where God has instituted for his sheep to be taken care of.

01:27:42

Well, thank you Anonymous. Keep listening to Iron Sherpa's Zion Radio and keep submitting excellent questions like that to our guests.

01:27:52

Thank you very much for sharing that personal matter with us and once again our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:28:00

If you have a question that you'd like Pastor Jason Goodwin to address on the war between the spirit and the flesh.

01:28:11

Let's see here, we have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania and Susan Margaret says that very often

01:28:27

Christians use the term we need to forgive ourselves when they are plagued and tormented perhaps by past sins and so on.

01:28:41

I do not believe this is a biblical concept of forgiving yourself but there is some truth connected with it in that if we are repentant believers following Christ and have lives marked with obedience albeit imperfect, we should be trusting in Christ's forgiveness of us and that he has paid the penalty for our sins on Calvary.

01:29:04

What way would you correct well -meaning brothers and sisters in Christ who use this term of forgiving themselves?

01:29:13

I think you go back to the apocryphal. Forgetting what is behind,

01:29:19

I press forward. That's kind of our call as Christians. You know, sufficient for the day is its own trouble, is what

01:29:28

Christ says in the Sermon on the Mount. Whatever mentality allows you to understand if you're in Christ, your sin is under the blood.

01:29:39

I don't live in the past. I live going forward. The race that I run is a forward -running race.

01:29:46

We're not running in reverse. We're going forward always. Then I have to focus on that, that the prize is forward and so whatever is in my past or whatever sin

01:30:00

I've committed, if I've truly confessed it, truly repented of it, turned away from it, going after Christ, I leave it there.

01:30:09

Yes, Satan may try to bring it back to me. He may try to use it to remind me of why I'm not qualified to be a pastor, why

01:30:16

I'm ill -fit as a husband, why I do a poor job as a father or whatever the case may be, but if I truly believe that it is under the blood and that Christ has put it away and is putting it all under his feet, then

01:30:30

I've got to go forward with firm confidence that that's the truth because that's the gospel and that's how we have to live as believers today.

01:30:43

Amen. Thank you, Susan Margaret. Can you continue to spread the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio there in Delfin County, Pennsylvania and beyond?

01:30:53

We are going to our final break right now. It's going to be much more brief than the last one. Now is the time to send us a question before we run out of time.

01:31:02

So please, if you want to ask a question, send in an email immediately because the time will be over for you to do so before you know it.

01:31:11

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

01:31:17

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter.

01:31:26

Don't go away, we're going to be right back with Pastor Jason Goodwin and the war between the spirit and flesh right after these messages.

01:31:36

Gotta tell you for my money, Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

01:31:42

Iron. Criticizing. Iron. I think that's what it's called.

01:31:47

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace to You, inviting everybody to come to the

01:31:54

G3 conference which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country. And it is.

01:31:59

It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnzen was there last year. He's been there I think every year.

01:32:05

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place which is a highlight.

01:32:11

Tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers and no matter where you are in the building you will hear Chris Arnzen's laugh.

01:32:18

And that's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com,

01:32:31

g3conference .com. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

01:32:44

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

01:32:55

And besides that they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

01:33:02

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

01:33:12

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

01:33:18

Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my

01:33:27

Nestle All in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a

01:33:33

French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

01:33:44

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

01:33:55

For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

01:34:02

That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am

01:34:17

I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

01:34:24

I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a

01:34:30

Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

01:34:37

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

01:34:45

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

01:34:52

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

01:35:05

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

01:35:10

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750.

01:35:17

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled

01:35:23

Resting in Grace. You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org. That's providencebaptistchurchma .org

01:35:31

or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor

01:35:36

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

01:35:45

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

01:35:51

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

01:35:57

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the

01:36:03

Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

01:36:11

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many

01:36:17

Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

01:36:23

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states.

01:36:36

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

01:36:46

Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,

01:36:53

I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.

01:37:00

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.

01:37:08

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

01:37:14

That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225

01:37:23

Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a

01:37:30

Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:37:36

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:37:43

We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

01:37:50

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:37:56

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

01:38:04

Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. I'm Dr.

01:38:09

Gary Kimbrell, pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows in their affliction.

01:38:19

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

01:38:24

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

01:38:30

What was I to do? Could I just say, God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

01:38:36

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

01:38:42

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

01:38:48

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

01:38:57

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans? Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838

01:39:05

Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or donate through our website bbclaurel .com.

01:39:13

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or bbclaurel .com.

01:39:23

Thank you. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

01:39:33

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

01:39:41

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture, and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

01:39:57

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

01:40:10

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

01:40:32

Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually. Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup, sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

01:40:46

If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org.

01:40:55

They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness, such as Dr.

01:41:04

W .R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters, Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Dalcor, and more.

01:41:13

Firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Trepans Iron Radio program daily.

01:41:19

Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Trepans Iron Radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

01:41:30

Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. Welcome back.

01:41:43

This is our final segment of our interview today with Pastor Jason Goodwin, pastor of First Baptist Church of Shady Grove in Laurel, Mississippi, and speaker at the upcoming

01:41:54

Deep South Founders Conference we have been discussing and will continue to discuss the continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh.

01:42:05

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Please do so quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:42:14

We have a question from Jane in Huntingburg, Indiana.

01:42:20

That's Huntingburg, Indiana. Jane asks, let's see, I've got to enlarge

01:42:26

Jane's email because the font is very tiny. Let's see here.

01:42:33

Jane, and by the way, while I'm doing this, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com if you have a question. So please send it in quickly if you have one.

01:42:41

What is the best answer to Nazarenes on this? I have friends who are adamant that they get through days on end without sinning since they are sanctified.

01:42:55

And also, Jane said that she hasn't received a book or a Bible in the mail that she won, and I'm sorry about that because I do have you on our winners list, and I don't know where the mix -up occurred,

01:43:05

Jane, but I'll make sure that we look into that and at least send you out another

01:43:11

New American Standard Bible. I don't understand what happened with the last shipment, and I will check with you later about making sure that the mailing address that we have is correct.

01:43:21

But if you could respond to Jane's question about the

01:43:27

Nazarene denomination, which is a Wesleyan denomination, Wesleyan -Arminian denomination, and some of them,

01:43:35

I guess, believe in John Wesley's belief that a person, a

01:43:41

Christian, could live a sinless life. I don't think he ever claimed he achieved that, to my knowledge, but he believed in theory that it was possible.

01:43:50

If you could respond to that kind of thinking. Yeah, no, I probably want to shake that person's hand, at least have some further conversations, because that's a pretty lofty accusation.

01:44:05

Well, I think, number one, let's go back to the

01:44:10

Catechism. You know, what is sin? Do they have a right understanding of what sin is, or are they making more of a fair vehicle view of sin?

01:44:20

Is it just, you know, for them some sort of outward violation of the law? Do they not really understand inwardly how we sin in thought, word, and deed every single day, and how our lives are overrun with the consequences of sin in so many other areas?

01:44:40

So that's how I would first push back on it, is what do you think sin is? And then secondly, I would say, if you have a right understanding of sin, then you see areas of your life where you commit sin.

01:44:52

And if you're going to continue to tell me that no, I don't sin every day, then again,

01:44:58

I'm going to have to go to 1 John and say, hey, he who says he has no sin is a liar. So we need to work this out as well.

01:45:06

Yeah, don't you think a lot of times Christians have a far too unbiblical concept and understanding of what sin is to begin with?

01:45:16

They may think of the scandalous sins only. They may think of either sexual lust or actual participation physically in fornication and adultery and pornography.

01:45:31

They may think of theft and they may think of murder and they may think of slander and all kinds of things that are more overtly scandalous and sinful and even in the minds of many non -Christians.

01:45:49

And yet, in fact, I don't know if you've ever read an excellent book by Jerry Bridges, the late Jerry Bridges, but he had a book called

01:45:56

Respectable Sins and he was saying that tongue -in -cheek, obviously. He was basically warning

01:46:03

Christians about continuing in sins that have become to be embraced as very much approved ways of thinking or behavior even amongst

01:46:18

Christians and people might be unconscious to the fact that they are actually violating the will and law of God.

01:46:25

People might, for instance, be racist and they don't even really think of their their sin as anything consequential.

01:46:34

Of course, the sin of pride can manifest itself in many ways. There are so many ways in which we sin every day that to our neighbors might not be viewed as anything that great, but in the eyes of God it's would send us to hell if it were not for his blood covering us.

01:46:54

No, that's exactly right. We tend to forget that it's our hearts that have to be transformed.

01:47:03

That everything that we do, everything we say, everything we think is a direct relationship to the wickedness of our hearts and this is why we need to be born again.

01:47:15

We don't just need behavioral modification. We don't just need our minds to be changed from one degree to the next in regards to the the veracity of the resurrection of Christ or anything like that.

01:47:27

That what Christ demands of us, as he said to Nicodemus in John 3, is you must be born again.

01:47:32

That our hearts must be transformed from dead hearts to living hearts, hearts of stones to hearts of flesh.

01:47:40

And because our heart is the problem, that is why sin is always an issue.

01:47:46

Because even though we can be born again and even though we can be given hearts of flesh, that inside of us, that old man, that old

01:47:54

Adam still wars against us and we cannot, cannot for one second neglect that reality because it does lead to this perfectionism, this hyper view of sanctification and everything else or even justification that if I've been declared righteous then

01:48:16

I am completely righteous. But no, we're covered in the righteousness of Christ and I'm still working this out, as Paul would say, working out my salvation with fear and trembling under the blood of Christ.

01:48:30

Well thank you Jane and please keep your eye open for an email from me. I'm going to be sending you the mailing address that we have in file so you can confirm whether or not it's accurate and I once again apologize for any mishap that may be our fault over here and we'll make sure eventually that you get the book that you want and the

01:48:50

Bible that you want. So sorry for the inconvenience and so sorry for not living up to our promise to you.

01:48:57

Please continue nonetheless to listen to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio and submit your excellent questions.

01:49:03

Let's see here, we have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York who says,

01:49:10

I constantly hear from many of my Christian friends and even members of the congregation where I attend that sin is sin is sin and we should not be overly judgmental against someone who sins and for instance if a pastor commits adultery we should be expecting him to be restored to that position after he repents because after all we are all sinners and therefore an adulterer who repents should be considered no different than anybody else who sins and all of us sin.

01:49:49

Yeah I've heard that too and I think sometimes people are overreacting to the

01:49:54

Roman Catholic understanding of venial sins and what is the other word that they use

01:50:03

I can't I can't remember right now and I was raised Roman Catholic but venial sins and mortal sins mortal and and they're people sometimes run too far the other way now it's true

01:50:18

I'm sure you agree that all sin without the blood of Christ condemns us to hell so all sin is equal in that sense but I think that the listener is correct that foolishly

01:50:32

Christians speak in unbiblical ways and and in fact if you were to press them on it they probably really don't even believe what they're saying you're not going to treat someone in your congregation who is a glutton at a picnic in the same way as if that person had molested a child raped somebody or murdered somebody

01:50:52

I mean that these things are not to be treated the same way they weren't even treated the same way in the old covenant in regarding to the penalties that people received so if you could now

01:51:03

I think you're exactly right and you get to the heart of penalties that there that while we don't we don't suffer penalties for our sin that's what

01:51:09

Christ does for us so all the penalty for sin is is covered in Christ if that person is repented of that sin there still is consequences and when he gave the example of a pastor who commits adultery

01:51:21

I think the consequence to that sin is you have you have violated your your calling as a pastor and you violated what the what the standards for an elder in in the

01:51:34

Lord's Church is and and the consequence to that is that you've disqualified yourself now we could we could have different discussions about does that disqualify a man forever or whatever else but I think

01:51:46

I think it does have to bear in there some consequence and it's not because we're trying to punish people it's not because we're trying to add add to them what only

01:51:55

Christ can can do but it it has to be we have to understand that sin is a serious thing and that there are consequences for different types of sin and and that some of those sins demand immediate um discipline uh either by a local church or in in in in in the biblical form um or or they demand immediate repentance um by the person who's done it to to someone or to a group of people uh and that the consequences for sin um cannot be ignored just to throw grace over everything because that doesn't serve the sinner nor does it serve the people that he potentially has sinned against in his action excellent uh we have cj in lindenhurst low island new york and cj says sometimes

01:52:50

I believe that we who are reformed and do conduct church discipline may go overboard in refusing a person who has sinned even if it's been a scandalous sin ever to be used in a ministry fashion of any kind even if many years have passed since that sin was committed and the person has proven themselves to be truly repentant with a restored life and a track record of repentance and obedience do you think that there can be heavy -handed treatment of of christians who have committed even egregious sins in the past and have proven themselves to be obedient and repentant yeah