Scott Butler's Response: Melt Down

One of the things that I wanted to point out, Mr. St. Genes had talked about Dr. Harnack, a liberal theologian, but here's what he says. He really doesn't have a bias either way as far as a Protestant or a Catholic position, but he says this about the 2nd century.

Now, it is a priori a probability that the transformation of Christianity into an organized Catholic Church, which was simply the adaptation of the Gospel to the then-existing Emperor, came about under the guidance of the Metropolitan Church, the Church of Rome, and that Roman and Catholic had therefore a special relationship from the beginning.

It can however be proved that it was the Roman Church, which up to about the year 190 was closely connected with that of the Age of Minor, that all the elements of which Catholicism is based first assumed a definite form.

From these considerations, we can scarcely doubt that the fundamental apostolic institution, the laws of Catholicism, were framed in that city that in other respects imposed its authority on the whole earth, that it was the center from which they spread because the world had become accustomed to receive law and justice from Rome.

Again, after the exposition of the arguments, all these causes combined to convert the Christian communities into a real confederation under the primacy of the Roman Church. Mr. White had said that there is no papal jurisdiction in the East.

This is the Bishop of Rome intervening. Peter, the successor of St. Athanasius of the Alexandrian Sea in the year 370, was thrust out of the Arian party. Pope Damasus armed with letters which claimed the power of restoring him to his sea.

Why does he have the power to do that? About the same time, Pope Damasus, writing to the Numidian bishops, commended them for the care in observing the ordinances of their forefathers and referring all doubtful matters to the head so as to avoid all departure from the regulations of the apostolic sea.

In the same letter, the Pope claimed to hold the chief helm of the Church. In another letter to the Oriental bishops, he claimed that the opinion of the Roman bishops ought to be sought before that of all others.

In the year 386, Pope Circius, writing to the Bishop of Tarragona in Spain, claims the inheritance of Peter's government and lays down a rule which must be observed by all priests who do not wish to rent from the solid apostolic rock on which Christ constructed his universal Church.

He also calls this rock the head of the body. Pope Innocent, in the year 410, writing to the Bishop of Rouen, sends a book of rules to be communicated to his fellow bishops. It's on and on to the Bishop of Gubbio, condemning those who think that the custom of any other church than that of Rome should be followed.

In the same letter, he asserts that no precedence prevails against what has been handed down to the Roman Church through Peter. To the Bishop of Carthage, he writes, asserting that the whole authority of the Episcopate is derived from the Apostolic See and claims that according to the Fathers, no local action should be counted as completed till the entire sentence is confirmed by the authority of the See.

Hoseus, one that had been at the Council of Nicaea, he was the Bishop of Cordoba, writes that you must submit to the Holy Pantos. That's the Bishop of Rome. This whole thing about all these different popes that have committed this great heresy.

We're not going to be able to have time to cover that, but all those different popes in the Lutheran Catholic Dialogue on Liberius, Vigilus and Honorius, they say that they do not affect infallibility in any way.

This is the largest Protestant group saying that it has nothing to do with infallibility, these three different cases. I would love to go into those because I could prove that there is nothing that infringes on infallibility at all.

One of the things that's kind of funny about St. Augustine, at the Council of Milibus, this is in Africa, and the Council of Carthage, they write to the Bishop of Rome to resolve a situation. Then what happens is Augustine, with five other bishops, writes to the Bishop of Rome to resolve the situation on Celestis and Pelagius.

Why would somebody from another western sea, from the African Sea, be writing, asking for the Bishop of Rome to take control of the whole situation? Robert Zins talks about the Seventh Ecumenical Council.

It's almost unbelievable. The Seventh Ecumenical Council says this, The sea of Peter shines as holding the primacy of the whole world and stands as head of all the churches of God. And blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, who first sat on the apostolic throne, left the primacy of the apostleship and of his pastoral care to his successors, who shall always sit on the most sacred chair, to whom he, by divine command, left the power of authority given to himself by God our Lord and Savior.

And the Holy Synod answered, The whole most sacred Synod so believes and so convinces, so teaches. And another time says, We follow, we receive, we accept. At the Sixth Ecumenical Council, Pope Agatha, which is the eastern pope from the, he, the eastern and western fathers were saying, Agatha has spoken on this issue.

It is resolved at the Council of Leon in 1274. The east and the west had split. At the Council of Leon, they affirmed the Roman primacy when they tried to get back together. At the Council of Florence in 1435 to 1439, the one thing that is affirmed by the eastern and the western church is that the Roman primacy is true.

Now, the east backs out of that situation later on, but at both of those councils, it affirms the principle. In every council that's coming down, we see this language about the Roman pontiff. The amazing thing in the Council of Chalcedon in 451, we have the Empress Pulcheria saying this, By the authority of Blessed Peter the Apostle, we utterly revoke it by the general decision.

The Patriarch of Constantinople, he says, he instantly obeyed, he says, all the pope's injunctions, the canon was not the work of blame is to be laid on the clergy of Constantinople, but even as the whole force and confirmation of the acts was reserved to your holiness.

Point being is, he tries to make it out, this Theodore the Elector is in 550, 100 years after the council, is an eastern historian. John Skolotikas, he's an eastern historian. This Dionysus writes in the Greek canons and different things.

He affirms there's only 27 canons. These are people from the east. Mr. White says they're all from the west. I have 40 pages of stuff just saying that Peter is the rock here. Bob had quoted you one on Tertullian.

What kind of man are you subverting and changing what was the manifest intent, the apostles, so they govern? You cannot deny that you may know that in the city of Rome, the chair was first conferred on Peter, who was the prince of all the apostles.

The point being is, Tertullian, as a Catholic believed in the primacy, and as a Montanist, after he leaves 20 years later, believes that he's the rock too. St. Gregory of Nicaea says, that unbroken and most firm rock upon which the Lord built his church.

St. Gregory of Nicaea, seeth that thou of the disciples of Christ, all of whom were great and deserving of the choice, one is called the rock and is entrusted with the foundations of the church. This is the year about 350.

St. Basil, 371 says, one also of these mountains was Peter, upon which rock the Lord promised he'd build his church. Ambrose said it was right indeed that he, Paul, should be anxious to see Peter, for he was the first among the apostles and was entrusted by the Savior with care of the churches.

St. Epiphanius, and the blessed Peter, who for a while denied the Lord, Peter was the chiefest of the apostles, he who became unto us the truly affirmed rock upon which is based the Lord's faith, upon which rock the church is in every way built.

St. Ambrose, I mean, St. Athanasius and St. Ambrose presided over the majority of these different councils, and Mr. White would say that they didn't, they had to accept what the council said, at each one of these different councils.

They were the presiding person, the head guy, and each one of those councils said that Peter had this role in the church. St. Ambrose says this, therefore where Peter is, there is the church. St. Jerome says, this is Peter, to whom he said, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church.

Where therefore Peter is, there is the church. And in accordance with the metaphor of a rock, it is justly said to him, I will build my church upon thee. I have 91 quotes from St. Christoselum. Bob was only able to fill, give you like 14 or 15.

I've got 91 quotes from a Greek father, the largest Greek father writing on the primacy of Peter. Now this will all be in a book, and everybody will be able to analyze it, but the point being is, he's the largest Greek father.

He's affirming this principle. He's the largest father that we have the most writings from. And Mr. White would put it as if there's no writings affirming this principle. And I have not yet heard the, before the year 400, Matthew 16, 18, give me one father that says Jesus is the rock.

We asked him for three, then we asked him for two, now we've asked him for one. Give us one. That's what we're asking for.