What is a Sin Nature? Laborers' Podcast #sin #sinnature #originalsin

Welcome to the laborers podcast. We're so glad that you could be with us this evening tonight. We're going to be talking about a Sin nature or the sin nature and why it's so important. We hope you'll stick around.

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Good evening up at the top. We have a new face. Matt breeding. No, Matt is not a new face. He has been with us and he's part of the truth and love Network. And I'm so grateful for him and thankful for him.

Especially all the work behind the scenes that he is doing know that nobody knows but I'm gonna give him credit and praise. He is he's been working so hard for the the laborers conference coming up in 2024 the end of April it's gonna be a reform out of Baptist Church and Matt has been working really hard to help secure some funds so that.

It will cover some travel expenses, it's it's a free conference. Go to laborers conference .com. Look at the schedule. There's some things to do. There's some hotels there on the website. There's a place several places where you can register.

We would love for you to come see us at the laborers conference and Fellowship with us learn with us worship with us the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But I want to thank Matt for all that he's done and all the work that he's doing to help us raise some funds.

So, thank you, brother.

Hey, we're having it in my town. I'm gonna try to help you guys out that are traveling in and like we discussed it try to Take care of that stuff so we can keep it free for everybody that wants to go.

I'm gonna have to.

That's right I've heard it said and it's probably true in some cases, you know, you you get what you pay for So that you you have a free conference. So that's gonna be the quality of the speakers in my case it that may be true.

However, that's not gonna be the case for the rest of the speakers. Um, you're not gonna. We're not gonna be lacking in quality. These men love the Lord. They love God's Word and and they love sharing God's Word and I'm thankful for my brothers in the truth and love network and the ministry that they're doing.

So we we're gonna be pointing to Jesus. We're gonna be looking at his word. And so we're not gonna It's not it's not gonna be low quality. Because we're gonna be pointing to Jesus and I'm thankful for them and and also not only has Matt been Working on some funds, but he has secured some free resources that Attendees can receive Matt.

Can you tell us about the the two books that we're going to get?

I don't sorry to run. I don't have it right in front of me the names of them, but one of them is from truth for life ministries Alistair Begg ministry. The other one is from banner of truth, so Two solid resources there again.

I don't have the names of the book right in front of me, but trusted resources there so I Trust that these are good books that will be beneficial.

Absolutely and We have with us this evening The Providence perspective with a reform. Rican Jay and tell. Oh, how are you doing brother? What's going on fellas?

Thank you for having me as always glad to be here.

Fantastic, so we're gonna start 2024 with the topic of sin and. And and what is the sin nature? I Think sometimes when I was thinking through this. This can be one of those Christian knees type words.

Christian knees is just language that Christians use that maybe an unbeliever or. If you're not in certain circles you you you're not familiar with the terminology. You're not familiar with that language and so.

And I'm sure I'm sure this this term has been used in some gospel presentations. You know, you you've got a sin nature and they're like what I've got a what. So I think it would be good for us to talk about.

What is the sin nature and define? Define this biblical doctrine and understand why it's important. So getting started. Matt you're at the top. We'll start with you if that's okay, just plainly in plain English.

What is the doctrine of a sin nature. Was it each? I? Think just.

Had it through to the simple definition is that we? All of us have a natural inclination to sin that Given the choice to do our will or to do God's will We're going to choose to do our will and go against what God's will.

Is that? Our nature Again has that inclination to go against what is God's will to sin against God. I think that's. We're going to expand out from there, but I think that it's at root. That's what when we talk about a sin nature.

It's that inherent inclination within us to sin and not to do God's will. Would you add anything to that Jay?

No, I think that's perfect, you know, I'm thinking of like Romans 14 I Want to say 23 if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it says, you know for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin, and so basically if I can lay out what what a sin nature is is a Nature that that doesn't put its faith as that doesn't put Its trust in God, right and I would say that not only is that a sin nature.

But you know to kind of start answering the first question who who does it affect who has a sin nature and why well I would say it affects all of us. Every single human being right. Romans 3 actually Romans talks a lot about sin and sin nature.

You know Romans 3 talks about how no one is righteous. No, not one. No one understands. No one seeks for God all have turned aside together. They have become worthless so on and so forth, right like We as human beings are fallen creatures meaning that we have been separated from God and his will and Basically have gone our own way we have all gone astray.

Like Isaiah says hmm, and so When we talk about the sin nature. And we're just describing the condition that we as humans are in. I want to share something actually I don't know. I didn't think of this earlier.

But I had shared something that Vodie Bachum had said Not too long ago, I mean he may have said this a while ago actually put it. But I heard it on one of his preachings and I thought man that is so good and so precise.

Let me see if I can find it here. Here it is. So he said if only Christians can do good works. Then why do unbelievers do good things? Because in order for a work to be deemed good it has to be the right thing done the right way for the right reason right and so the problem that we as humans have is that in our Natural state We may do the right thing.

We may even do it the right way but We'll never do it for the right reason apart from Christ because we have that sin nature. So I Will leave it at that for now.

So basically you are you are pointing us to. This thing that happened has affected us on the Inside where we where we reason and where we make our decisions. I think that's where you're pointing us to our motivations.

You're pointing us to this this sin that yes. Yes, we're. You know, you will go back to Adam and Eve go back to Genesis this thing that happened that brought sin into the world. It affected us on the inside.

Correct. Yes, and it's exactly like you're saying, you know, like like I said earlier Romans 14 23 Whatever is not done by faith is is sin. And so When you are apart from God Your motivation is not to bring glory to God to obey him to serve him.

Your motivation is to please yourself right to to seek out whatever you feel is right in your own eyes. And Like I said, like Bodhi Bachman said you might do it you might do something that is right. It may be even in the right way though.

Not necessarily always but ultimately you're gonna fail in at least the third category, which is for the right reason. What is the right reason. I would say it's ultimately the glory of God. So whenever you don't do it for the glory of God By having faith in God you're still sinning in some way shape or form because you're being motivated by something other than God.

Mm-hmm. I like that word that you used. You talk about being a condition and that implies that there was a former condition and now we're in a different condition and I think that speaks to the sin nature and Where we are in our state that there was we're We're involved in this condition and.

And man, I like what you were talking about to you the inclination and and I've heard people use the word we have a bent we have a bent towards sinning and We don't have the ability to to unbend it to straighten it and point in a different direction.

We're permanently. I guess what I will say the sin nature means that we are permanently bent towards doing those things that. And with a motivation or without a motivation to glorify God and so I totally agree with everything you guys were saying, um the last part of yeah.

That's exactly what I was gonna ask. Yeah, I think both of you all touched on it, of course. Jay said it. Sin nature affects us all. You mentioned Rob back in Genesis the fall. Jay mentioned that as well.

We can look at Romans 5 12. Paul tells us therefore just as sin came into the world through one man Speaking of Adam and death through sin and so death spread to all men because all sin. So he's clearly telling us that through the sin of Adam that death entered through sin and that Infected us all right there.

Right. Do you think that the verse is speaking of? I Think there's two look I see two lanes in that verse and you guys can can help me out here and tell me what you think. But All had all of sin and so you have.

You have Adam who sinned and then we all have sinned. So, I think there's there's it speaks of Adam sin, which led to the the entering of sin into the world, but then you have all have sinned which also Doesn't throw all the responsibility on Adam it puts it on us as well.

I think it speaks of both there.

Yeah, we. Whether it was Adam or us we didn't we didn't done the same thing. So it doesn't matter. So he just happened to right be the one there. Yeah, so we if he started the domino effect if you want to say, but yeah, we're we're all guilty because we Ultimately sin as well.

Mm-hmm. We we we choose to send ourselves, right?

The other two lanes that I've seen the passage that you read which I'm glad you did When it talks about death We can reflect back on on Genesis when God told him you will you will surely die. Well when they ate the fruit they didn't they didn't die, so That goes back to what what J was introducing us to which was the effect that happens on the inside.

Did death come physically? Yes, so there's one lane and then you have the spiritual aspect of death that I think it refers to as well, which Happened occurred when they disobeyed God and then also we Experienced spiritual death.

Well, we're I guess we're born spiritually dead. We need to be made alive in Christ. So do you guys see that? Am I pulling too much out that other passage?

No, I I have 100 agree. I don't know if Matt is gonna disagree here. He looks like he's about to disagree. Maybe it's maybe it's just the lack of beard that just makes you look kind of suspicious. I don't know what it is.

What what is the original sin. Because the that term is Brought up in in this conversation as well. What is original sin and how is it related to the sin nature?

Um, I Think that we have to I want to try to be careful here Because I don't want to step into a heaping pile of heresy when I speak. So you guys you guys are older than me so you guys are gonna take care of me, right.

But but but this you know, I've thought about This problem of original sin because when we talk about original sin in some Way shape or form we are describing the first thing right Adams first sin. But I think we also use it to describe our sin nature.

I don't know if we can necessarily separate the two because the fact that we are Sinful by nature makes us sinners right. What what you are is what you are, right? And so if you are sinful by nature, you're you're a sinner.

Some people might object to well, you know babies and things like that. They haven't done anything bad but I Think we can we can make an argument that even babies are sinning just by the sheer Fact that they don't think of anyone except for themselves.

You might say well, it's a baby. How can you blame a baby for for being the way it is? Well, that's exactly the point. It's you know, they're not capable of thinking of anyone but themselves because they are sinful by nature right and so Again, you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that that in and of itself is already, you know.

Even even babies are without excuse now. I'm not saying right I'm not trying to get into the whole do babies go to hell then if they die in infancy I'm not gonna get into that right now. I Have my own thoughts about that.

But I would say that From the time I mean, you know, it's it's like David say in in or David said, excuse me In sin did my mother conceive me, you know from conception. He recognized I was a sinner from conception and.

So I think that definitely applies to the fact that we all have original sin, right? Like the moment that were conceived we sin, right? We are being sinful and we sin. Which ties into that sin nature I don't know if you guys get where I'm going with this if it makes sense.

Am I am I being radical? Hopefully my pastors are not watching right now.

We you bring up an interesting point. And so I'm gonna ask you something Hypothetical to get your perspective on it and it would be the flip or the opposite of what you just described so it makes sense what you're saying that and I think we've already kind of said it and pointed ourselves in that direction that Original sin sin nature it has affected all of us on the inside.

So therefore That nature that we have is going to have an effect on who we are and what we do even from the beginning. So who you are is going to affect How you behave what you do? So that I mean that to me it kind of begs the question or Pushes me to get your perspective on the flip.

So Let's say that how many did not disobey so it remained a garden of Eden it remained good and think about glory think about after all this is is finally over and done with and You you have if if there are babies in heaven Like we know them, you know now a Baby without a sin nature basically what I'm asking a baby without a sin nature would they behave differently?

Well. What about baby Jesus. Did he behave differently?

Hey, there you go that I don't know.

Doesn't say at least as far as I know if you guys know of a verse let me know. But that's that's that's a question. I thought about myself. Sometimes I've said that baby Jesus behaved differently than other babies.

I mean I. Obviously this is speculation, you know, and I try not to. Not to say something definitive. If the scripture is silent on it, right Calvin says. Something along the lines of like, you know where where scripture is silence, so I must be silent.

So I I would lean towards that but since we're speculating I think there must have been some kind of difference in how Jesus as a baby behaved. What all that entails? I'm not gonna even remotely attempt to define it.

But but yeah to answer the question, I think if if I had to guess right this is not scriptural so. Don't don't take my word for it. But I think that without a sin nature babies might behave differently.

I.

Think that was a safe answer. Very good answer.

I'm going with what's safe. I will not speak where God has not spoken. Hey, man.

Wow. You you can't help but agree with you that. An individual with a sin nature a sin nature is going to affect an individual. I Mean, that's just that's just the way it is. That's that is scriptural.

That is evident. From scripture and in in life. I mean you you visually witness it. Someone with a sin nature behaves a certain way so. You can't help but think you know the thoughts that you were thinking, you know.

How did Jesus behave or how was someone without a sin nature a baby without a sin nature? What would that look like? Interesting.

Maybe they wouldn't wake up their parents at 3 a .m. Because they're Oh.

Jay touched on I think Would be interesting and it's kind of from a personal perspective to using the term original sin I Think probably even like said for myself even probably up until a couple years ago when I heard that even not that I probably heard it that much but You I think my mind tended to go just to the sin of Adam just speaking of that first sin and obviously that's Part of it, but I don't remember where I got this Like this definition.

It said that original sin can be defined as the moral corruption We possess as a consequence of Adam sin resulting in a simple disposition Manifesting itself in a habitually sinful behavior. So again, it goes back to what you're saying.

It's tied to Adam sin that Term original sin is really speaking of that condition that we inherit and the consequence of what took place prior so I think for a Lot of people that term can be a little Confusing and they look at it too simplistic don't bring it full course, but again, I I would say I Thought that way as well.

This is what we tie this in. I mean I know I would but I'm just curious what everybody else tie this into the doctrine of total depravity or. Would you guys have some different views on that? Well, I think there's definitely A Connection there.

Because I guess what what what I'm you know there is that question right of like I'm sorry, Rob. I don't mean to take over but I'm just having some fun. I'm curious what you guys think of this. You know, there is that thought of like, okay.

Well total depravity. You know, I Might I might imagine somebody pushing back right and saying well if you believe in total depravity, then how do you explain like, you know? People who do good things then clearly they're not totally depraved.

I don't know. What do you guys think of that? I think that.

Again, kind of I think some people are kind of getting away from that term of total depravity because I think Anybody that's honest to say that We're not always Depraved as we could be it's the. What we're really getting at with that term is that our sin our depravity Whatever level that manifests itself that it affects all parts of it Us in total.

Not That it's as bad as it could be but that's the total of our person.

Like all our all our faculties. Like our mind our heart our soul.

Yeah, our body or all of that. Yeah, we because we can look at. Not that we want to be necessarily comparing ourselves anybody, but we can I obviously find other people that have done worse and more depraved things.

That and we have but we're not as bad as we could be. But that doesn't mean Like you said all of our faculty's all of our being. It's not affected by that depravity.

Okay, some degree do you remember the the new term. Because I think you're exactly right Matt that I think.

Are these pro use the term radical?

Yes, you're right. When you were explaining all of that I was like, I've heard this stuff before and I was like, I think he's he may have gotten that from Arcee's problem. Yeah, I don't know if you did or not, but I was like, okay.

Okay Okay. Well, I like Arcee so, you know, I'm I'm inclined to agree with you there. I do remember that he kind of he kind of you know in that series.

He kind of messes up the tulip because he doesn't like it. Yeah, it pretty much changes all of them.

There's another one that we that we talked about that we use different terminology and we've done it recently and I can't remember what it was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Preservation preservation. Yeah, exactly yeah, well.

Jay you and I were on the we were thinking on the same wavelength because that's. There's some of the other thoughts that I had on the questionnaire. How is it related to? The the doctrine of total depravity or radical depravity as we were just discussed and how much?

How much of man does they send nature? Affect. Which is related to that question and I was trying to think about how to word it but it it almost seems like We we are radically depraved because of the sin nature.

It's almost the sin nature is what gives birth or to radical or total depravity. That's why we are the way we are is because of the original sin because of sin nature and therefore. Maybe it's just another way another term that we use to describe Having a sin nature or the the result or the effect of having a sin nature is our radical depravity.

Yeah, I think it's oh. There we go.

It is our nature. It has to affect All of our total being. If there was One part that was affected by the sin nature and another part that wasn't we would. Biologic, I would think have to have two different natures.

Yeah.

Well, I think that that we have a certain. It's kind of interesting because in a sense, I guess you could say that that people are not Completely and utterly depraved in every aspect right like what we're talking about.

But I still think that that we can't say well It's a mix of good and bad right because it's like it's like the the rich man that comes to Jesus and says good teacher. You know and Jesus says what do you call me?

Good? No one is good. But God right if we define what is good by God's standards to be good is to be 100 good. It's not well, sometimes you're good. And sometimes you're not. I Mean that's that from a human perspective.

We would put it that way I suppose but but when the reality is that Either you're all good, or you're not good at all, right? You're only less bad or more bad. I guess you could say No, I think.

Go ahead, man. Yeah, I think when yeah when you're talking about not as being as bad as you could that I Think from a human Perspective obviously because yeah, like you say you're you're either in Right standing with God or you're not you're not it's there's Separated from God.

You're not just a little separated or a lot separated. You're yeah, so I think that Kind of fleshing that out Like they just from a human perspective Kind of the levels of Depravity and I think I just the word scroll used was radical corruption.

Hmm, that's a good even got away from those depravity word.

Yeah, um, you know, I I pulled up the the confession the 1689 confession. I know that we don't all. Necessarily. Oh Matt. Are you 1689?

Yeah, our church. I 10 that's not our confession, but I'm good with the 1689 for sure. Okay.

Okay. Well, this is not scripture. But I think the 1689 does shed some light into what we are talking about here. So this is from chapter 4 starting in paragraph 2. It's talking about Adam and Eve. I'm not gonna read the whole thing.

But in the what is this like the third or fourth sentence? It says they Adam and Eve had the law of God Written in their hearts and the power to fulfill it even so they could still transgress the law.

Because they were left to the liberty of their own will which was subject to change and then in paragraph 3 It says this in addition to the law written in their hearts. They received a command not to eat from the tree of knowledge and good and evil.

So You know even after Adam and Eve fell I think there's something to be said about the fact that We have in a sense the law of God written in our hearts and in our consciences, right? And so Romans 1 I think Talks about this as well.

So when people ask the question like well, why do people do good things if they don't You know believe in God. Well, ultimately they're not good, right? Like we talked about because they're not for the right reason.

But everybody does have a sense of morality the problem is is that it's corrupted. So it's kind of like a computer that has a virus, right? It functions sometimes right sometimes my computer that is infected with a virus will actually do what I wanted to do.

It may not do it perfectly. But sometimes it will do it and ultimately it always crash and do something that will make me say something I shouldn't say because I am a Christian. But I think that's that's kind of how how it works, right and I think that's kind of how I've made sense of it like We have this virus called sin and it has affected everything within us right like Matt was saying, you know, our mind our Our body right like death came in through sin, you know into the world through sin, right?

The fact that we get sick the fact that we die all of that is because of sin. Ultimately. It's a total corruption. So I think that's probably for at least for me the best way to to kind of like make sense of it all.

Would you guys disagree or agree? I don't know. Yeah.

It's so hard to define it really good and I'm sitting here trying to think about how to Analogies that I can make and how I can define it help even help myself Understand it because we're in one aspect.

We're talking about different levels of bad and on the other side We're saying that we can't do anything. That's that's good ultimately but we do We do realize that from a certain perspective those things can and look good like be good actions.

Oh, yeah, helping someone out. So there's there's There's an array or a levels levels of good and there's levels of bad but But the thing about the sin nature and our radical corruption radical depravity that that we have within us being dead spiritually inside we have to stay within that circle of our nature that even those even those things that Perspectively look good.

They're ultimately evil because they They're from a dead sin nature that a sinful sin nature or a sinful nature, excuse me. Yeah, and so what I'm trying to I'm trying to get to the other side after we are born again after The Holy Spirit has made us alive our our circle changes.

We We're still we still have the ability to do those things that we did before Either good or bad but what changes is The ability to please God in those good things. Yeah, and The other thing that is is going through my mind is the fact that we're I guess the scripture calls it flesh still still have a flesh that We're drawn to.

We're tempted you're afraid to like the the remaining corruption of sin in the flesh. Yes. Okay, so it's not totally gone.

I Didn't want to get it. I didn't want to get myself backed into a corner where I was. I was saying that we We have a simple nature and then After we're saved now, we somehow have two natures. That that compete with one another.

It's that that aspect of this conversation is so hard to define and understand. Do any of you have any more clarity than what I could give just now. Post salvation and what that looks like. What our sin nature.

What was done with that signature? I think Romans 7. Right. Romans 7 I think makes it abundantly clear. Right, like let me I'm gonna look it up. But basically I'm gonna lay it out like what Paul says in Romans 7.

He says that what he wants to do is what he doesn't do, right? But what he doesn't want to want to do is what he keeps on doing and so he goes on to say that. If he is doing what he does not want to do then he agrees with the law that it is good, right?

So he's saying there's already a change in me. Right, which is eternal in internal. Excuse me, not eternal internal because. When we are apart from Christ what happens is we are actually. Not only do we sin, but we love it right like we we love to sin.

We don't love God like we were talking about earlier. Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. When you don't have faith in God, well, guess what? It's clearly sinning. You love to do it. It's it's what you want to do.

But now when you're when you're nature your core right at the heart you are changed now. All of a sudden you don't like doing the things that you used to do. Now there's there's in the flesh right like your flesh may enjoy it and in you are we are.

You know body soul spirit like there's a component of us. I guess you could say that that Gives into sin because hey, we like it right like we do. But in our core in our in our inner being as Paul puts it we are grieved by this sin that we that we still sometimes fall to and It's kind of it really is kind of a duality because I.

You know, the Bible says that we are sanctified but also that we are being sanctified right? We're being made holy. It's that already not yet kind of idea, right like. We're we're a work in progress right, and so It's not that.

It's not that we're always gonna do things the right way. But you know how we would we hit, you know, I had to use that example of Odie Bockham who said that you know. For something to be good. It has to be the right thing done the right way for the right reason.

Before we are changed before we put our faith in Christ. We may do it the right way or we might do the right thing and even the right way. But not for the right reason all of a sudden now that last component the right reason is there.

And so that I would say is what changes it's like yes, we become capable To do thing the right thing the right way for the right reason. Do we do it perfectly all the time? No, because again, we still have remaining corruption in the flesh.

But I do believe. Let me actually why do you guys want to you guys jump in? I'm gonna look up Roman 7 because I don't want to butcher it. I want to make sure that I say exactly what it what Paul said there.

We are regenerated and we have been changed that Again, we we're still gonna stand but when we do that Through God's grace. He convicts us of that said we are grieved over our sin whereas Our old sin nature.

Not only were we not agree. We actually loved everything as you said, so I think even though we're still we should be sinning less and progressing in our sanctification when we I Think it was When I heard I think it was John MacArthur somebody was asking about that and he said as Gotten older and said as a Trajectory in my life.

I have sinned less But the sins I do commit grieve me more so it's a Lessening of sin, but a grieving war over those fans because of that new nature.

And I'm also curious about the balance between because I I'm sitting here looking at Galatians. And I'm curious about the balance between What Jay's getting ready to read in Romans 7 and where Paul's at and then where Paul is in.

In Galatians 5 19 through 2021 he says these are the deeds of the flesh. And then 20 1 22 through 23 This is the fruit of the Spirit. And in 24 He says now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. And so I'm curious about that that tension there between here and Romans 7 that balance.

Do you want to jump into that right now, or do you want me to read? Yeah, go ahead with seven. Okay. So this is what I was referring to that Paul says right starting in verse 21 of Romans 7. He says so I find it to be a law that when I want to do right.

Evil lies close at hand for I delight in the law of God in my inner being. But I see in my members Another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

Wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of death. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself serve the law of God with my mind. But it with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

And so again that just kind of falls back to This this war that we have in turn eternal. Internally, excuse me. Where you know on the one hand we want to do what is right and and in in some cases we do right and it we?

Do progressively get better at doing what is right and in fighting against sin. But we're still gonna sin from time to time sometimes, you know I I think we even have to make Clarification because I don't want somebody listening to be discouraged who might think well I don't feel like I'm progressing right now, right?

What do I do? What does that mean? Am I am I not saved? Well, no, not necessarily you but you might not be saved. If you're not trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation, but at the same time, I don't want to terrify you right either because sometimes Sadly, even a Christian can fall into a very grievous sin sin, you know, it's it's not.