Bible Interpretation and Pricilla Shirer

Opening Banter and Bible Gifts

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Pastor Esteban de Cuyli is here. Si, como no. Steve, I think you did as well, but I got a Bible from evangelicalbible .com, a fine-crafted Bible. Did you get yours in the mail?

Yeah, and now it's locked in a vault, airtight vault, and nobody can touch it.

And that's the nicest Bible I've ever a-seen. Well, I saw the Gutenberg Bible in the museum. I saw Luther's Bible in Wittenberg. But in terms of mass-produced Bibles, that was a nice Bible. Very nice.

Yeah, and do you use yours, or do you use NIV, NES? Which version did you get? Well, I got the NES.

I did too. Yeah, 70, what, which one is it? Yeah, it's a 95. It's the updated one. Yeah, but I mean, the nice thing is I got in on the bit because they were about to change the page. You got the five-pounder, I think.

Yeah, so, yeah. That's nice.

Well, you can go to evangelicalbible .com if you want to see some super deluxe Bibles. They're going to be pricey, but they're fine-crafted. Very fine. Seriously. It's like a fine wine. I've never owned a nicer Bible, and I'm glad to have it.

I can't remember what particular kind I have. I have the NES, and it's goat leather. Yeah, what's the name of it? But it was like Krugel or Kindle. I got the Kindle version. It's really heavy. Super nice.

Really nice. Chali's had something the other day. He was going to go to only digital books from now on. He's going to get rid of his library.

Yeah, and then he said, like, almost. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. Although I think I am getting some kind of arthritis or whatever in my fingers, so it hurts to like, I have to like fold my fingers up, you know, and kind of so that I don't get pain.

For book reading or Kindle reading? Either. I mean, it's just the position and just holding it, you know, I have to be careful.

Priscilla Shirer's Hermeneutical Error

Steve, I have in front of me something from Priscilla Shire. And this is Jill Cox, she sent this in. And this is from Priscilla's book, Discerning the Voice of God, How to Recognize When God Speaks. Now, here's the thing.

I have to give her my compliments in the sense that if you think God is still talking today, giving revelation in addition to outside of the Bible, then somebody needs to help us figure it out because there's a lot of people that are saying the wrong things.

So at least he's helping us in this regard. It's almost like Third Timothy. Oh, yeah. Because you would need to know as a pastor how to discern the voice of God outside the scriptures.

And there's no one that I'm more willing to listen to than, you know, a charismatic woman.

Yeah, well, she's popular though. She's on shows and stuff. It's like Beth Moore on TBN.

You know, that last name, that's the name of the guy that wrote the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

I have that book. I wanted to read it for 20 years, but I have not, William.

Yeah, I think I read it like in the fourth grade or fifth grade or something.

Did you? Yeah. Okay, I have Mein Kampf too, but I haven't read that. I have not read that.

I'm really not, I mean, I'm not tempted to read that. What are you reading these days before we go to this thing? Well, you know, your book on, yeah, sexual fidelity.

My book on teen racism or something.

Well, I picked up, well, I was trying to decide whether I was going to also read a novel or a historical book, and I haven't really figured that out. I have several historical books. So maybe I'll read that.

I've got one on the Civil War that I wanted to read, so.

Sludge, Sewage, and the Boston Harbor Tunnel

Okay, I'm reading an interesting one that I'm trying to remember the title. It is about the 10 mile long tunnel that people made from Boston Harbor, from Deer Island out into the ocean where they put all the sewage.

So it's 10 miles out. So they, you know, as with the caucus, got slammed by Bush, you know, 20 years ago about gunking up the Boston Harbor. There were so much sewer stuff and sludge put in the Boston Harbor.

It was just awful. And they decided instead of like drilling a tunnel underneath the Harbor to Logan Airport, let's do a different one from Deer Island, 10 miles out and just dump the stuff out there.

Well, it got clogged up and these guys had to, in scuba suits, had to go unplug it. And it was basically like being on the moon because you could not be rescued if something went wrong and it went wrong.

So that's interesting to me on lots of levels. Wow. Yeah.

I, yeah, that's the kind of thing that I just, I would be like, I don't want to be that guy. You know, no way. There's no amount of money you could give me that.

Well, not only thinking about that, they had two Humvees, one backwards, one forward, hooked together. So they would drive as far as they could down the tunnel before they'd have to get out and then slide the boats.

And then they could drive back the other way because it was too thin to turn around. And you've got to have scuba gear on because you can imagine it wasn't the smell, but all the methane and other things.

Boston Harbor, the Harbor had a thick coat of black, weird substance on the bottom of everything. And it was known as black mayonnaise because there was so much sewer pumped into Boston Harbor in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

Pretty bad. It was weird. Anyway, that's what I'm reading right now. So I woke up this morning. This is going to be a great show. And I said to Kim, I have a headache today. I don't really feel that good, but I'm not trapped 10 miles outside of, you know.

I know, it's awful. So back to this book here. By the way, the sludge sewer motif is working perfectly with this new book by Priscilla Shire.

Self-Referential Bible Reading and Narcissus

Yes, because it is sludge. Here's what she says.

As I meditate upon a verse, I will often insert my name or a personal pronoun into it to make it more personal. If I'm reading and meditating on a Bible story, I will become the main character so that it is not merely someone else's experience with God, but my own.

I often ask myself what God would have me do as a result of what I contemplated, end quote. Now, if that's not Narcissus, I don't know what is.

Narcissus, I like that. Well, I'm like, you know, because I am, because I am preaching through the Gospel of John. And I'm like, you know, I just can't help thinking about the Feast of Booths. And you know, when Jesus goes up on the Temple Mount and starts preaching, well, who's she playing?

Is she the crowd? Is she, you know, the Pharisees, the Jewish leaders, or is she Jesus? You know, which one is she?

Well, I was just looking at Luke 5, 6, 7, and 8 this morning, and I just had my Bible open to Luke 8. Soon afterward, Mike went on through the cities and villages, proclaiming and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God.

And the 12 were with Mike, and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits. You know what? I can really attract a crowd of followers.

That is just silly. That's just silliness. I mean, that's what, you know, where's Priscilla might be worse than where's Waldo. So, I mean, this is, where am I today? Oh.

Applying Scripture Without Making Yourself the Main Character

Now, there are a couple exceptions to this. I mean, this is awful, and this is mystical. This is, this is just the wrong way to go about interpreting the Bible. But if I said to myself, to the saints who are at Ephesus, right, and you've got, you know, it's blank in the best manuscripts, a circular letter, to the saints who are at Bethlehem Bible Church, that would, this would be a, this is a truth for Bethlehem Bible Church.

So, that's correct. These things are, you know, watch Paul praise God. This is the way Bethlehem Bible Church should praise God. Blessed be the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is that okay to do?

Well, yeah. And I think, you know, this isn't exactly the same as that, but I think in 1 Timothy where Paul says, you know, he's the worst of sinners and all that kind of thing, if you put your own name there and go, or, you know, just think of yourself, I don't think that's terrible because it's good for us to think of ourselves as the worst of sinners, you know, so that we have a right view of God and a right view of our sin and, you know, and a right view of what Christ has done for us.

If we ask ourself the question, what does the text say and mean? Then we would talk about, oh, look at Paul as he writes 1 Timothy. See how God chose him. See what Paul received on the Damascus Road. See how Paul was the persecutor of the church.

See where he was when Stephen died. And look at, here's this Christian killer, essentially, and look at how God saved him. Isn't that the way God does things? And then we say to ourselves, you know what?

Thinking about my own sin, Paul says he's the worst sinner. I think, you know what? I'm close. I can give him a run for the money. I think that's an applicational issue. And she's trying to make it hermeneutical and she's trying to make the Bible, she basically doesn't like the Bible.

It's not personal enough. She reads the Old Testament and it doesn't speak of her. If I read Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd. And I think, you know, the Lord is my shepherd too. Look at all the personal pronouns.

And if you say the same shepherd Jesus is your shepherd, not just David's shepherd, but your shepherd, there's a way to go about it, but it's not Priscilla's way.

Well, and it's understandable from this sense. If the evangelical mindset is, you know, Christianity isn't a religion. It's all about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It's not a big jump to, you know, the Bible is all about my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

And where am I in this passage? And how do I fit in? And me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

See, here's the thing. In her book, Discerning the Voice of God, if she were to say, when I read the epistles, I say to myself, do you know, I don't want to be ashamed of the gospel either. Paul's not, I'm not.

And look at, look at, this is an epistolatory message. Or my pastor, when he reads 1 Timothy, and he says, don't let anybody despise your youth. And he's a young pastor. And he says, you know what? What pastors need to receive is such and such.

But that's not what she says. She says, I'm meditating on a Bible story. And so then I think, you know what? I just insert my name, you know? And so instead of Cora, you just insert yourself. I assembled myself together against Moses and against Aaron.

And I said to them, you've gone too far. How does that work?

Is that a good way? I don't know. Then the, you know, I was judged by God and killed right on the spot.

And Moses said to Mike Abendroth and Steve, hear now you sons of Levi. It is too small a thing for you that the Lord God of Israel has separated Mike and Steve from the congregation of Israel to bring Mike and Steve near to himself.

Foolishness. Why is it that we have this where's Waldo hermeneutical mentality where we're trying to find ourselves in the Bible? Steve, I think it's the same thing that drives, well, you know, I have a personal relationship with Jesus.

And that's why he talks to me outside the Bible. What kind of relationship would it be with your wife if you never talked to her on a regular basis?

Well, this is what does the Bible mean to me? You know, not what does the Bible mean? It's not, has nothing to do with authorial intent or anything else. This is just all, you know, what do I get out of it?

Steve, I don't know what I'm going to say on Sunday in terms of what passage to preach because we're having some colossal snow storm downgraded now. But I have a backup sermon for the snow sermon. The Hebrews one sermon though, I'm thinking to myself, people need to understand what's the difference between revelation, inspiration and illumination.

And I think Priscilla has more problems than that. You know, is she regenerate? That'd be probably be a fair question. When you receive revelation from God versus, you know, the spirit of God is illuminating the already received revelation.

I think that's the problem. They're wanting more revelation, but God's only giving illumination through his spirit.

Christ Has Spoken in These Last Days

So would you say that God has spoken to us through his son and he's done speaking?

I would say, well, if it's in these last days. Okay. Assuming that's the case, he's spoken to us in the quality of son and that's why we should listen to him. Actually, you know, I was thinking about her hermeneutical horror here.

And this is my beloved son in whom I'm well-pleased. Listen to Mike Abendroth. That's a lot of power. It's a lot of blasphemy too. How can I have so much power, Steve, and still drive a Pinto? Is that what you're doing?

It seemed like it. All right. Mike Abendroth here with Steve Cooley on No Compromise Radio. Steve, one more thing before we turn the page on this hermeneutical horror show. When you're reading the Old Testament narratives, let's say it's Numbers or let's say it's First Kings, Second Kings, Samuel, Chronicles.

Judges. There's nothing about us in there. So how do I work through, how does this apply to me? Is it a fair question? Is it the first question?

Talk about hermeneutical. Well, it's not the first question. The first question is what is the, what does the text mean? What was it intended to mean? What's the setting and all that kind of thing. So you want to give the information, you want to explain the text rightly, but how does it apply?

Well, a lot of things have changed over the last few thousand years. What hasn't changed is the nature of mankind. So whether they're making idols or whatever they're doing sinfully, we still do the same thing.

And I say, we, it's the condition of man. It does not change. And so, you know, God doesn't change and the nature of man doesn't change. And so that's why the Old Testament is still relevant no matter what.

I mean, these problems are not unique to a particular time in history.

Steve, when I read Psalm 139, after listening to Abner Chow's lectures on 2 Samuel, I read it differently and I'm convicted because I think for years I fell into a trap that Priscilla has fallen into.

I think my trap was not as devastating, but I'm reading Psalm 139. And of course, there are so many things in there that make it worshipful, that of course they do apply to me. And he's talking about, you've searched me, you've known me, you know when I rise up, when I sit down, you discern my thoughts.

I mean, think about later in verse 13 of Psalm 139, you form my inward parts, knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you for I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Don't you think about that when you think about your own three kids and your five grandkids and how God just has knit them together and God is a wonderful creator.

That's all true, isn't it? Yes, it is true. And I love that from Psalm 139. But then what do we do when it comes to verse 19? Oh, that you would slay the wicked, oh God. Oh, men of blood, depart from me.

They speak against you with malicious intent. Your enemies take your name in vain. Do I not hate those who hate you, oh Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with a complete hatred.

I count them my enemies. Now, what do we do? Just kind of shift gears. Yeah, yeah. You should have seen Steve. He just kind of shrugged his shoulder. Not both shoulders, but a one shoulder shrug. It was actually more like a nervous tic.

Oh, see, I did not know that about you. Some people think, Steve, in Psalm 139 that actually David was sinning there and he then writes Psalm 139, verse 23, search me, oh God, and know my heart. I shouldn't have been hating them like that.

That's interesting. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. But if you say to yourself, this is a Davidic Psalm. Who is David? What about the royal line of David? What does God do with this Davidic throne and what should he be thinking?

And ultimately, I think this is a good place to say to ourselves, what does this tell us about the ultimate David? Because last time I checked, even though David was nice to Meshibbapheth, he failed when it comes to Bathsheba and he is not the true Davidic ruler.

Well, clearly he's not the true. I know, I know. Clearly. Just seems deep. Was Solomon? No. Yeah, I don't think Solomon made it. It's like when you read 1 Kings and 2 Kings, you should say to yourselves, if someone asks the question, the ordination question, could you please tell us the theme of 1 Kings and 2 Kings?

They did not choose wisely. Yeah, I know. Nobody is good enough to be the Davidic king. That's the answer. You say, yeah, but what about some of those things? Yeah, but he did good in the sight of the Lord.

Steve, when my kids were little and we would go through all the different bad kings, and this king did, and I would pause and they would all know what to say, evil in the sight of the Lord. It was awful.

Even if we read Judges, tell us a little bit about Judges. And if everyone does what's right in their own eyes, what's the application for us? Is there something we should think through or this is only back in those days?

Well, I mean, I think there is a lot of application even for the church today because the tendency is to try to be more like the world. And so often that was the problem in Judges where they were just like, you know what?

We need to be more like these, you know, maybe like the Philistines, like the time of Samson. And, you know, the Philistines aren't so bad. So let's just kind of, you know, get together with them and set aside our differences and what difference does it make if we worship their God or our God or what, you know?

Hey, you know, Allah is just the same as, well, I mean, isn't that what a professor at a Christian college said? I mean, these issues come up time and time again where, you know, issues that we think are fundamental become negotiable because liberalism and other things creep into the church.

If you haven't read Judges lately, you should read Judges because it basically epitomizes our culture today. And when I read Judges, I like to read it this way, Judges 4, and the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord after Ehud died.

And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin, king of Canaan. Now, Mike Abendroth, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth was judging Israel at that time. I just insert my name into some of these things.

Yeah, it really works. Man, this is so good. What if I just opened up randomly, Steve, and said, I'm just gonna insert myself into one of these passages. And then it says, Isaiah 40, comfort, comfort my people, says Mike Abendroth.

What if I insert myself into God for God? Well, I was wondering about that a little bit. Well, it doesn't say your gods, aren't you? The scriptures, you know, in Psalm 82. 82, yeah. Yeah, no. And yeah, but then it says, nevertheless, you will die like men.

Let's not forget that part. I don't like that part. So if you'd like to hear from God, the point is you just should read your Bible. And Steve, we've got a few minutes to go. Talk to us about contentment with the revelation God has given.

Contentment with Scripture and the Work of Hermeneutics

Well, here's what I would say, first of all, if you're not content with the word of God, well, then my question to you would be, so you know everything about it. You've completely plumbed the depths and the riches of God, because the Bible says you can't do that.

You can't know everything, you know, even in his revelation, let alone know everything about God. And so, why wouldn't you be content? Well, I'm gonna give you the primary reason is because you're not doing the work.

You know, you want something easy, you want something simple, you want something new and exciting because you don't wanna do the actual labor that is required to learn the word. Let's say there's a brand new Christian.

And they're taught by someone, here's how you interpret the Bible, and they start jamming their name in everywhere. By the way, Steve, they have those computer programs where you can get the New Testament with your name in all these personal places.

Yeah, and print it out. I don't wanna, don't give it to me. Awful can awful.

That's a Heno moment of all time right there, Heno. I had a Twitter exchange with somebody a while ago, and I thought they were going after me for something. And I usually don't involve myself in any Twitter debate type of thing.

And I just said, well, I think you should reread the article. And I thought they were saying something bad about equipping Eve and Aaron's show, so I was gonna stick up for her. But I misread the conversation, and so it was actually my fault.

And I said, you know, it was my bad. I thought you were critiquing something else when I said, read that other article. And then they wrote back and said, I just have one word for you, forget you. And I knew they were a listener.

So, and I probably thought, you know, they're a big donor too, so I had to be careful. Big donor, really?

We have one? Yeah, I know. I have one word for you, forget you.

Now, I was thinking about something a second ago. Oh, yes, isn't contentment related or possibly related somehow to laziness? In other words, we say to ourselves, it takes hard work to study the Bible.

There are hermeneutical issues. There are issues of history, culture, language, time, you know, everything else. It's hard to study the Bible. Space, is that right? I almost said, it's about time, it's about space.

It's about time to slap your face. Actually, when I got to the church here 19 years ago, there was a guy that said, when Jesus said that I have sheep that are not of this world or whatever, it was kind of UFO.

They've just found the ninth planet, Steve. I thought Pluto was a ninth and this should be the 10th.

Yeah, they've got a name for it too, Death Star. If you read your Bible,.

You're going to realize pretty quickly it's going to take some work. Now, I love the work, but you think, okay, it's going to take some work. So, I do think that many people are not content with the Bible simply because they just read it in a cursory fashion and they're like, you know, this doesn't apply to me when they won't see past some of these characters thinking the faithful, immutable God who is the God of Abraham.

Well, I don't have a covenant with me that's unconditional in Genesis 15. I am the recipient of said covenant.

Yeah, the message I would say of the Old Testament is what a patient, loving God and what a sinful, rebellious subject he has in man and then, you know, you just think, well, how are these two ever going to be reconciled?

And then we have the New Testament, but yeah, we have to look for larger themes and, you know, stop looking for ourselves in the white spaces of scripture. Mike Abenroth here with Steve Cooley.

If you want to buy a hermeneutical book, what's a good book on hermeneutics to buy?

There's one by R .C. Sproul called, is it Knowing Scripture? Oh yeah, Knowing Scripture, that'd be a good one. And then the one by Dick Mayhew too. How to Rightly Divide the Word. That's it, there you go.

Closing Station ID and Program Disclaimer

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abenroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE in staff or management.