WWUTT 1905 Q&A (Part 2) Rick Warren’s Biblical Case for Ordaining Women Pastors

The Bible, Women Pastors, and the Questions Rick Warren Raises

What does the Bible say about why a woman cannot be a pastor? And what are the verses that Rick Warren uses to claim a woman can be a pastor? That's what we're gonna be examining today when we understand the text.

This is when we understand the text, a daily Bible study in the word of Christ. For he is before all things and in him, all things hold together. Tell your friends about our ministry at www .wutt .com.

Hey, once again, it's Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky. Today is the second part of a critique that Becky and I did of the interview that Russell Moore of Christianity Today did with Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Church and author of The Purpose Driven Life.

When Rick Warren gave his reasons for why he believes women can be pastors, he said he changed his mind about this a few years ago and that there were certain passages of scripture that convinced him.

Even the Bible says that a woman can be a pastor. So we're at the part of the interview where Warren gets to those passages and we're going to examine what those passages are and what the Bible has to say.

Now, if you missed part one, you can go back and listen to yesterday. It was in that part that I went through 1 Timothy 2, 11 to 14, so that you can hear what the Bible says with regards to why women cannot be pastors.

Let me go ahead and read that part again and then we'll jump back into the interview. 1 Timothy 2, starting in verse 11. A woman must learn in quietness in all submission, but I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

For it was Adam who was first formed and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into trespass. So Paul goes back to the creation story and the story of the fall in Genesis 2 and 3 to ground his reasoning for why a woman cannot be a pastor.

She cannot even function in the role. And then the instructions that are following in chapter three, verses one through seven, where you have the qualifications for a pastor, the qualifications a man has to meet in order to be a pastor.

It's clear what we're talking about there is a man. Only a man is qualified for that role. So Rick Warren claims that he's got different verses of scripture that lead to a different conclusion. So here we get to that part of the interview and then Becky and I will break in and offer our critique.

Here's part two of this interview.

Rick Warren’s Claim That Scripture Changed His Mind

Between Russell Moore and Rick Warren. First, I understand why people get upset about this because I believed the way they did until three years ago. And I actually had to change because of scripture.

Culture could not change me on this issue. Antidotes could not change me on this issue. Pressure from other people would not change me on this issue. What changed me was when I came to confrontation with four scriptures nobody ever talked about that I felt had strong implications about women in ministry and nobody had ever shown it to me.

I knew the Titus passage. I knew the Timothy passage. I knew first Corinthians. And every time people say, why don't you have women pastors? They say, show me a verse. You give me one verse, I'll consider it because I'm a Bible guy.

I can't just say, well, everybody's doing it. Or I've been to 165 countries and I've seen churches with 30, 40, 50 ,000 people led by a senior pastor who's a woman. That's not enough for me.

I have to have a biblical basis. Notice that he mentions, I know the Titus passage. I know the Timothy passage. I know the first Corinthians passage. Doesn't go to any of those passages. He's gonna mention these other verses at the exclusion of those verses that explicitly say, a woman cannot be a pastor.

So he's deciding to go with, this is my interpretation, my infallible interpretation of these other passages that therefore give me permission to appoint and ordain women ministers.

Three years ago, right after I had taken the leadership of finishing the task, and that's something else I hope we can talk about later on. During when COVID hit, I started reading every book I could find on the Great Commission and on church history.

And I read over 200 books on the Great Commission and on the history of missions.

This sounds like one of those Mark Driscoll claims where he used to say that he read like five books a week or something like that. It was like just some incredible amount that just could not have been true.

Going through five books, unless they're like 20 pages long. Well, that's what I was thinking.

They might have been like short novels.

Yeah, he's claiming he read over 200 books during COVID. So like in 2000, in a single year, he read over 200 books. I don't think I've read 50 books in one year. I don't know. I'm not that speedy a reader anyway, but.

I'm definitely not. That's a lot of books, over 200 books. I mean, the funny thing is he says that, but he never quotes any of them. He doesn't say like this author, according to this person. Did he just skim them then?

I have no idea. I don't know what he means by read over 200 books. Did you see that video of his that went viral a few months back where he like showed off his library? No. So this was on social media.

He pulls out this, he's in a small library. It looks like his small office. Okay. And he pulls out a book, which of course is The Purpose Driven Life. And he opens it up and the book's been hollowed out and he's got a button on the inside.

Okay. And so you push the button and then this bookcase opens up and it opens into this vast library. Like it's probably three times the size of our house. Oh, wow. It's a huge library. Goodness. And he's just walking past book after book after book.

And the whole time he's doing it, I'm just going, man, how do you just keep walking past all this stuff? I'm like, hey, leave me here for a little bit. I want to stop and read. Pick me up when you come back.

I mean, at least read through the titles or something. Yeah. But he's just walking and he's like, here's my Spurgeon and here's my Edwards. And he's got little busts of these theologians that kind of line the hall that he's walking down.

Okay. Just bookcase after bookcase after bookcase. He goes all the way to the very back where he's got this trash can and it's full of these tools, which he says are his pastor illustrations. And like, he pulls out a shovel and he's like, this is my shovel.

Because sometimes a pastor has to really shovel through the crud, you know, and all that. That's what he goes through with his bucket of tricks. Okay. And to me, it was kind of like, that was so indicative of Rick Warren.

Yeah. Like you're walking past a world of knowledge and you ignore all of it and just go to your quick bucket of gimmicks. Yep. Because that's all I've ever seen from his teaching is just a bucket of gimmicks.

And so, yeah, here he talks about, I read 200 books, which just honestly, it just sounds like he's bloviating and saying, so I am the authority on this issue because I read 200 books, over 200 books.

And I was asking two questions. One, why did the church grow fastest in the first 300 years? We went from 120 people in the upper room to becoming the official religion of the Roman empire in 300 years.

In my library, I have a Roman denarius of 87 with Caesar on the coin. But in 320, I've got a picture of a denarius with a cross on the coin. That's major cultural change. And the church grew about 50 a decade for the first 300 years.

Is that what he means by birth? Like the church was best at its birth?

Oh, so like in the very beginning of the church? Right. It could be. Maybe that's what he was referencing. But the answer to that question is actually very easy. It's the Holy Spirit. Yeah. How could the church have possibly survived its first 300 years when persecution against the church was at its worst in the history of the church?

How could the church have possibly survived that? Because the Holy Spirit. To show that this creation and this building of the church, this expansion of the gospel and people coming to faith and believing, even though it may cost them their lives, so that we would see and know that it was not by the work of man.

Right, amen. It was the Holy Spirit that did it.

So that no man may boast.

You give it to him, babe. Yeah, that's 1 Corinthians 1 31.

And I made a list of about 25 things that they did that we're not doing today as a church. I also made a list of the things that we have that we think we have to have that they didn't have. They didn't have planes, trains, automobiles.

They didn't have church buildings. There were no church buildings in the fastest period of growth of the church for the first 300 years. I've been in the oldest church in Malula, Syria, and a small little church seats about 50 people.

They had no pulpits. The idea that one guy would stand behind a pulpit and preach, that wasn't New Testament worship. Paul says, everybody has a song. Everybody has a scripture. Everybody has a teaching.

It was in a house and everybody shared. It wasn't one guy sits still while I instill. That's our cultural imposition. There's another one of his creed things. Sit still while I instill.

But yeah, that whole thing he's saying there about there weren't pulpits. That's not true. There were. There absolutely were pulpits. They had stands on which they would roll out the scrolls and then they would explain the Old Testament scriptures.

Sometimes the church would meet in the synagogue because that's where you had to go to find the scriptures, to find the books and the parchments and everything else so that they could read the scriptures aloud and then explain what it was that they read.

In the first church that's gathering there in Jerusalem, they're gathering where? Where are they gathering? In the temple. Yeah. They were in the temple. That's true. So yeah, people's houses, certainly.

There were people. There were churches that gathered at someone's home. It's understood that Lydia in Philippi, her home was the place where the church was gathering. Philemon was probably the guy who's hosting the church in Colossae.

It's probably there in his house. So yeah, there were house churches. That was definitely a thing. But there were also, guess what? There were elders. There were those who were actually appointed to teach and oversee the teaching.

Rick Warren's making it sound like everybody had their own teaching. No, they didn't. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14, that's chaos. And that's not the way that the church was supposed to be structured,.

Especially the worship service. And so what did they do? They didn't have printing press. They didn't have the internet. They didn't have radio, TV. And yet they grew faster in the first 300 years than the other period of time.

Then the next 1700 years, I was asking, what went wrong?

So notice that his approach here is not biblical or spiritual. It's entirely pragmatic. What was the church doing in those first 300 years to make it so big?

I want to find out their formula so that I can duplicate it. Yeah, sounds like a Rick Warren approach. Yeah, exactly.

It's a new book. Now, what was the church not doing for 1700 years after that, that was such a problem and now the church hasn't been spreading, which is not true. Right. I mean, there's more people in the church today than there was 1700 years ago.

So it's kind of an absurd comparison to try to say that, well, they were doing it right 1700 years ago, but now we seem to be getting it wrong. Yeah, we're all wrong now.

In 1988, the IMB, International Mission Board, hired an Anglican scholar, David Barrett, to study. And he wrote a book called The 877 Plans to Complete the Great Commission from AD zero to 1988. I've used that book for the last three years as an index to study why we didn't get it done.

What went wrong? And it even tells you, the Catholics had this many plans and the Anabaptists had this plan and the Lutherans and Methodists. And you can look at them all. And I've seen all the things they did wrong.

And so FTT, we're talking about that. Well, anyway, in that study.

Yeah, I'm sorry. At some point, he's actually gonna get to these verses. Are you sure?

I'm not so sure anymore. In that study caused me to change my view about women. Nothing else could have studied it as I came upon three different scriptures. First. Three different scriptures. How many did he say before?

Four. Yeah, he said four. He couldn't recall all of them though. No. There were four scriptures and he's changed his mind now. I mean, honestly, that just kind of goes to show he's really not thought through this.

Cause he was so caught. He even held up the number four. You can't see that, but he held up four fingers earlier. There were four scriptures. Now it's three.

The Great Commission, Pentecost, and the First Sermon

The Great Commission. Now Baptists, Southern Baptists like to call ourselves Great Commission Baptists. And we claim that we believe the Great Commission is for everybody. Both men and women are to fulfill the Great Commission.

Well, not really. You don't believe that because it says there are four verbs in the Great Commission. Go, make disciples, baptize, and teach. Women are to go. Women are to make disciples.

Women are to baptize. And women are to teach. Not just men. Just because I obey the scriptures, which say that a woman cannot be a pastor, does not mean that I am opposed to women fulfilling the Great Commission.

Right. Warren's argument here is that a woman can only fulfill the Great Commission if she can be a pastor. So we just make all women pastors then? We make all men pastors? Cause apparently you can't do the Great Commission.

Unless you're a pastor. Well, how many pastors does he have now? 1 ,800, I think.

I don't have any idea. I'm sure actually That's not enough. Actually, I probably undershot that, knowing Rick Warren. Just wait a little bit. He'll change his mind. I mean, he is the quintessential.

He really is a quintessential Baptist. He's pedigree Baptist. He can inflate numbers with the best of them. That is a Baptist quality right there. Oh dear.

Now, this is one of the reasons why Saddleback has baptized more people than any church in American history. 57 ,000 adult baptisms in 43 years. Why? Because in our church, if you went into Christ, you get to baptize them.

So if a mom wants to baptize her child or a wife wants to baptize her husband that she led to Christ, anybody can baptize anybody they led to Christ. 57 ,000 baptisms. It's the reliberation, the emancipation of every member as a minister that truly, we believe in the priesthood of the priest most of the time instead of the priesthood of the believer.

Now that right there, that is an area where we can agree to disagree on. Like who gets to baptize? Does the pastor baptize? Can a deacon baptize? Can you let a woman baptize? Or does it always have to be a man baptizing?

I think that's an area where we can... Sir, you want to let a woman baptize? I honestly don't have biblical grounds on which to say that she can't. Right. Now, since that's part of our worship service, it's part of what we do in congregational worship, then it's always gonna be a man baptizing.

And at least as far as our church goes, it's the pastor, unless it's a situation where like one of our deacons, so you're still talking about somebody who's ordained, but they're ordained as a deacon and not a pastor.

Like say one of our deacons kids becomes a believer and they want to baptize their kid, we're gonna let him baptize their kid. Yeah. So it doesn't exclusively and always and only have to be the pastor.

But since that's part of our corporate worship, it's gonna be a man who does that because he also teaches from the baptismal in addition to dunking under the water and bringing back up again. Right. And now we've had this discussion before and I can't remember under what context, but it's come up before about, would we let a woman baptize, things like that.

I don't think that the church would like, okay, now we got to shut our doors or we got to split because suddenly women want to baptize. I don't think that's the direction our church would go if some sort of a conversation or issue were to be drummed up like that.

I don't see that being a split. Yeah. Because we're somehow arguing now over whether or not women can baptize. That's certainly an area where we can agree to disagree what he's talking about there. Where I don't agree, I don't agree that his 57, is that what he said?

Because he said it like 20 times. So surely it's got to get into my head. 57 ,000 baptisms. I don't believe that those are legitimate baptisms. Yeah. Because I know what Rick Warren's taught at his church.

And there are many, many, many, many who were baptized and never heard the gospel. Yeah.

Now, Great Commission, go make disciples, baptize, teach. You can't say, well, the first two are for men and women, the last two are only for men, or maybe just ordain men. That's eisegesis. You got a problem, who authorized women to teach?

Jesus. All authority is given to me, therefore teach. All authority is given to me, therefore baptize. You got a problem with the Great Commission. I had to repent when I actually looked at the Great Commission.

I had to say, it's not just for ordained men, it's for everybody.

And I don't disagree with that. So he's creating a straw man. He's saying that our argument is, the Great Commission is only for men. I have never, never, never, never heard anyone say that. Yeah. I've never heard that before.

Me either, honestly. Yeah. I don't know. So he's positioning a straw man and he's kicking it over. See these people who say that women can't be pastors, they're preventing women from the Great Commission.

What? No. Yeah. That's never been the case. Titus 2, 3. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips, nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may instruct the young women in sensibility to love their husbands and love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands so that the word of God will not be slandered.

Amen. Is that what Rick Warren's women at Saddleback have been teaching the women at the church? No. Because that is the context in which women teach, according to Titus 2, 3. The older women teaching the younger women how to care for their homes and be subject to their husbands.

Yep. And I've always taught that. So you can't tell me that I've been keeping women from the Great Commission.

The second thing that changed my mind was the day of Pentecost. Two things happened on that day. We know the first day of the church, the church as its birth is the church at its best. On that day at Pentecost, we know women were in the upper room.

We know women were filled with the Holy Spirit. We know that women were preaching in languages that other people couldn't hear to a mixed audience. We know women, it wasn't just men. Women were preaching on the day of Pentecost.

How do we know that? Because Peter felt obligated to explain it. And so in Acts 2, 17 and 18, he goes, hey guys, these people aren't drunk. What you're seeing was foretold by Joel. It was gonna happen.

And so he explains why you're now seeing women preaching on the very first day of the church. He explains it. And he says, this is that that Joel predicted. And here's what he says. In the last days, and clearly that means Peter thought the last days began with the birth of the church.

We're in the latter of the last days now. We don't know how many more there will be, but the last days began with the birth of church. Peter says, in the last days, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh, all flesh.

Your sons and daughters will prophesy. That's different than the Old Testament. Russell, I've looked at over 300 commentaries on those verses. And it's interesting to me that almost everybody goes, yep, in the church, everybody gets to play.

Everybody gets to preach. Everybody gets to prophesy. And the people who don't like that, ignore that verse. John MacArthur doesn't even cover that verse. He just skips over it.

That's a lie. I was gonna say, in all the years that John MacArthur has been preaching.

He's got commentaries covering every single verse in the Bible. Yeah.

What is he talking about? Apparently that was not one of the 300 commentaries he looked at.

I've heard John MacArthur talk on Acts 2 and explain how that prophecy applies. And it shall be in the last days, God says that I will pour out my spirit on all mankind and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams.

Even on my male slaves and my female slaves, I will in those days pour out my spirit and they shall prophesy. Now then, just because it says that in Acts 2, that does not mean that there were women at Pentecost who were preaching to the people, to the Jews that were there at Pentecost in Jerusalem.

That's not what that means. Warren is, now he's being eisegetical. So he made that comment earlier about that's eisegesis. That's exactly what he's doing. He's reading something into the text that it doesn't say.

Peter is simply quoting Joel, but he's not explaining, hey, you guys are wondering how there are women out here teaching. Well, let me explain to you from Joel. That's not what Peter is doing. He's explaining to the people how they're hearing what they are hearing and he's showing them this is now the fulfillment of what Joel had predicted.

It's not exclusively there at Pentecost. We see later on in Acts that Philip's daughters are prophesying. They're prophesying together among themselves. They're not prophesying to men. So just because it says your daughters shall prophesy, it doesn't mean, that means they get to be pastors.

We're gonna platform them as pastors. Because otherwise, is Paul contradicting what's happening in Acts 2? Peter's reference of Joel, is Paul contradicting that then when you go to 1 Timothy 2 and he says, I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man.

Yeah, and it doesn't say anywhere in there talking about how women are being the pastors and leading the churches.

Yeah, and every time you hear this argument, every time you hear somebody talk about how women can be pastors and they try to explain it biblically and say, well, they do what Warren's been doing. Like, well, if women can't be pastors, then you ignore the Great Commission.

What? How did you get there? Yeah. Like we've leapt over all kinds of biblical instruction to get to where you just said, to whatever it was you just said. I mean, there's always just this twisting of, you know, well, that has to do with women and if you don't let women do this, well, then you're actually going against scripture.

Explain to me 1 Timothy 2. What does Paul mean there? And why do you not have a single example in the entire New Testament of a woman as a pastor? Culture. Yeah, right, culture. That's a common, that's another.

I actually had to respond to that earlier today. Well, it's clear to me, and he was referencing 1 Timothy 2. It's clear to me that what's going on here is a cultural issue. Paul goes back to creation.

How can you say it's a cultural issue? Yeah, he does.

And then the third thing that changed my mind, see, none of this had to do with culture. Had to do with scripture.

I thought I spoke too soon there. That's funny. Yeah, no, his answers here have everything to do with culture. It doesn't have to do with scripture. He has decided that he's gonna ordain women pastors and I know everybody's gonna get on me.

Yep, everybody's gonna get on me about those passages that say that you can't, you can't, a woman cannot teach or have authority over a man. And so I'm gonna ignore those. I know the Timothy passage. I know the Titus passage.

I know the 1 Corinthians passage. I'm gonna go to these other ones though and it's because of these passages. Otherwise, if you don't ordain women pastors, you ignore the Great Commission.

Yeah, these three or four verses.

Then for 40 plus years as a pastor of Saddleback, I mean, really he incriminates himself there. Yeah, he does. For 40 plus years at Saddleback, he was not fulfilling the Great Commission. Well, he said he repented.

Yeah, well, that's still your entire pastoral ministry. You were not doing the Great Commission. So who are you to be boasting about all these baptism numbers if you weren't even doing the Great Commission right?

And then all of a sudden I noticed that the very first sermon, the very first Christian sermon, the message of the gospel of good news of the resurrection, Jesus chose a woman to deliver it to men.

It wasn't a sermon. That's what I was thinking. Come on, all you guys gather around, sit down. I'm gonna preach to you. I'm gonna take you through all the Old Testament scriptures. And now I'm gonna show you that Jesus Christ has risen again.

And it's a woman that's standing among them and delivering these scriptures.

No. He had Mary Magdalene go and tell the disciples. Now that clearly wasn't an accident. It was an intentional. It's a whole new world, baby. Now he has a woman delivering the gospel and a woman go tell the apostles.

Can a woman teach an apostle? Evidently did it on the first day. He chose her to be the first preacher of the gospel.

So you would, after the last three years, you would support men and women as elders, a senior pastor, as everything within the church? I would, I would, I would.

But here's what I'd say. Because I have to say, this is my interpretation. I have to say with humility, it doesn't bother me if you disagree with me.

Yeah, it does. It very much bothers him that you disagree with him. That's what I was thinking. I mean, why are we even having this conversation? That's what I was thinking.

I'm like, what's the point of your platform right now?

Yeah, that's absurd. It's especially, I mean, if you're watching the video, he's looking dead eye into the camera. And he's like, if you don't let women be pastors, you disagree with the Great Commission.

Yeah, that's a guilt trip. This is not his interpretation. He's gaslighting. Yeah. He is heaping condemnation on you because you disagree with his interpretation of the Great Commission. This is pharisaical.

He is adding to the scriptures what is not there. This is the tradition of man, not the tradition of God.

For 2 ,000 years, the church has debated the role of women in culture. But to make it a litmus test for are you a Baptist or not is nonsense because the very first Baptist confession of 1610 says the officers of the church are elder, not pastor, and deacons and deaconesses.

That's the original Baptist confession. So do you wanna go back to the original or not?

By the way, the 1610 Baptist confessional does not say that. It doesn't? Nope. What's it say? It says that the officers of the church are elders and deacons. The word deaconess does not appear in the 1610 Baptist confession.

Interesting. So yeah, no, he's just inserting that in there. And this is what I said before. He's gonna get to some of these confessional things as well read as he claims that he is. Did you not really read the 1610 confession or are you being deceptive?

Yeah.

Go read the preamble of the Baptist faith message, which it says, this is not binding on anybody. It says it in the preamble. This is not binding on any church. Always sounds like he's saying Baptist.

When he says Baptist. It does. Anyway, the BFM 2000 does not say that in the preamble. It doesn't say that this is not binding. Oh, really? That word binding doesn't even appear in there. So I don't know what he's referring to.

Interesting. The preamble of the BFM 2000 says, the committee rightly sought to identify and affirm certain definite doctrines that Baptists believe, cherish, and with which they have been and are now closely identified.

Our living faith is established upon eternal truths. Thus, this generation of Southern Baptists is in historic succession of intent and purpose as it endeavors to state for its time and theological climate, those articles of the Christian faith, which are most surely held among us.

So if you disagree with this statement, guess what? You're not. You probably shouldn't be part of the fellowship.

But now we're turning a confession into a creed and we're weaponizing it. We're starting an inquisition. And if this now falls into place, any pastor each week can stand up and say, I wanna kick out that church because they disagree on dispensationalism.

No, you can't because dispensationalism is not in the BFM 2000. That's what I was gonna say. And I don't even read it. You can kick out a church based on that, but you can remove a person from the fellowship because they disagree, or rather because they ordain women pastors.

It's under the article on the church, Article 7. It says, its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by scripture.

So if you start ordaining women, you put yourself at odds with the statement of faith that defines the Southern Baptist Convention. And so therefore the convention is right.

To disfellowship you. Yeah, there's other denominations and conventions and all that stuff that would align with you. Go to another convention. I just don't understand what the big, it's obvious that the SBC has put out there what exactly it is to be SBC.

Right. And then, so if you disagree, you're not SBC. I mean, why is there any gray area with this? I don't understand.

Some of the people that are listening here, you may not be Southern Baptist, and that's fine. If you're part of another denomination or order, or maybe you are totally independent. Sure. Maybe your church is independent.

That's fine too, as long as you stand on the word of Christ. But this matters because the Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Protestant denomination. Yes. I know technically it's a fellowship, not a denomination, but it's still the largest collection of Protestant churches in North America.

So as goes the Southern Baptist Convention, that's gonna be reflective of the rest of evangelicalism. Right. It should concern you about what's happening here. Now, I'm not Methodist. I've never been Methodist.

I've preached in Methodist churches before when I was growing up as an itinerant preacher and was traveling around to different places. I've been in several Methodist churches. But even what's happening with the Methodist assembly right now concerns me.

What's happening with the Anglicans right now? What happens to the different sects of Lutheranism? Oh, yeah. I watch all of that. I mean, all of these things are important because where you see a politic or body of churches going in a particular direction, that's going to affect many other churches, even outside of that particular fellowship.

And so this one's hugely important since the Southern Baptist Convention is the largest one. Yeah. And of course, there are people on the outside that are trying to infiltrate what's happening at the Southern Baptist Convention.

Oh, yeah, big time. Scott McKnight, he's a leftist. He's a liberal. He's pro-LGBTQ in addition to being egalitarian, which means he believes women can be pastors, but he's passing around on social media some document that he wants people to sign so that the Southern Baptist Convention will ordain women pastors.

Scott McKnight's not a What does that have to do with him? Yeah, he's not a Southern Baptist pastor, but he's satanically trying to disrupt any sort of biblical obedience that still exists in the Southern Baptist Convention.

If we can just get them, if we can just get the Southern Baptist, then we can get everybody else. And what Rick Warren is doing here is demonic also. Yeah, when it comes to the issue of women pastors, this is not a salvific issue, but what he's doing is still demonic.

This is the teaching of demons. It is not the teaching of scripture. Satan knows the Bible really well, but he twists it just like Warren is doing.

We should kick out churches for sin. We should kick out churches that harm the testimony of the convention. This isn't harming the testimony of anybody.

What's my favorite passage about adding to the Bible?

You shall not add or take away from scripture? That's in Revelation 22.

But what's the next verse? What happens to you whenever you do?