Andrew and Matt disagree Charismatic Gifts and a Asian Hebrew Israelite | Apologetics Live 0025

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00:01

Dave on the home screen or at least yeah, whatever

00:07

There we go, okay This is

00:17

Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

00:25

Christian Podcast Community. Hey Matt, you know what's really good for me to remember to do?

00:38

What's that? Hit save on the link for where people can join us Well, you know what

00:44

I'm working on right now on Apologetics Live I just added the link now. So folks, if you want to join us, yeah

00:52

If you would like to join us, you could go to ApologeticsLive .com. The link to join is there.

00:58

We are live We answer whatever your theological questions, anything about God and the

01:04

Bible If Matt doesn't know the answer, he just fakes it. Just yeah. Yeah, that's true.

01:09

It is true. I just fake it What's going on behind you today, Matt? There's a lot of activity behind you

01:15

What's going on behind me, well as Many of you will know I'm moving and I got to move in basically four weeks at the beginning of May and my back has been out and so we've got

01:30

Cameron back behind me and he's a friend of mine and he goes, hey, I'll help you pack and he came over and this morning

01:37

I was using a cane to get around. I have a deformed bone in my back and Three days ago.

01:43

I picked out two little socks And my back went out just like that. You guys know how that happens

01:49

In fact, Nathan said that he reached in his truck. He reached over to get something and boom there goes his neck

01:56

So that was a week ago and you know, it happens. Well, I like the way that You know that Cameron is packing up.

02:04

I see him putting one book in your box and then one he puts on He says you're putting one book in your box

02:15

It was funny when Nathan and Matt got together because They both start talking it from my point of view.

02:22

It was like vapor shade is ejecting that boy How's yours doing on my next feeling awful?

02:29

It's pretty good old So he took a day off from work actually to come over and help out.

02:36

How about that? And Nathan was here We've got the couches out. We've got a bunch of stuff. We took to the dump. So moving suffered

02:42

We started from the process now. Yeah, and so that's what we're doing. He said he's a dynamo.

02:48

Yeah at this rate He's gonna have that whole office cleared out What was he which books is he's showing you now this is the secret history of Andrew Rappaport Wow And I witness account of the rise of Mormonism I don't know if it's good people give me books and I don't even know what they're any good or not

03:08

Well, then I gotta write that's right, we have a code thing I gotta write on this one tell Cameron to make sure to ship all those over to me.

03:16

I'll give you my hand What'd you just do it? Yeah, Cameron. I'll text him now

03:21

But my address is so he could just ship those over to me. Oh, he wants you to ship my books over to there

03:29

What's it is it this is all that book this is LDS So so it's those two.

03:34

I'll just say one two, three and four. Okay gonna be Trying to and actually it's getting closer and closer.

03:41

What is moving move? Isn't that like next month? Actually the yeah next month.

03:48

Let's see April the last Wednesday of April the pods will be here and what's gonna start loading stuff up and yeah,

03:55

I'm gonna have to ask a lot of help from people because my back's been acting up now for a while and and I'm the kind of guy as most of us are when we set our minds on something we work we work and we work until we drop and So it's really been difficult for me to watch these guys do my work and But it is entertaining.

04:17

I watched you get up out of your chair or tried to get up. Yeah lowly and it is entertaining

04:24

You know, I mean I I'm not at the point Matt where I need a cane to walk around like you know

04:29

And you don't have a fourth a formed fourth lumbar vertebra You're deformed in more than just your lumbar there buddy.

04:37

No, I got it. It's a birth defect And the doctor said I'd be having trouble later in life and here we are birth defects.

04:43

All right That's what the bother me most right now though. So okay, so we're gonna have people on we can talk cats here

04:50

Charlie's here in here For the folks who are watching live if you want to join just go to apologetics live

04:58

Calm and once you get there, there's a link to watch there or you could just watch it from there

05:03

But there's also a link to participate there. And so that is where you want to go

05:10

To join now Matt, I will say we had a Couple of things we do might have someone come in that wants to start a debate podcast

05:18

I told him about our show and he thought it was interesting So he may come in the other he wants to start a debate podcast.

05:25

He was a Christian atheist what? He I think he built. He's a Christian. I don't

05:30

I don't know him personally. So But wait, he wants to come in here and take over and do debates. No, no, no.

05:35

No, he wants to start his own Debate podcast system.

05:41

Okay, and so he was asking questions of how to do that and I'm So he may come in and someone else that I hope will come in as I was down in Florida this week and I Got together with my brother -in -law's family

05:57

And got to talk with A young lady. She's I think I want to say 16th and 18 somewhere in that time for that fringe

06:07

And she is the captain of her high school debate team And so we

06:12

I said, well, come on in and you know, cuz she she said that, you know She's always trying to prep for debate. I said, well, we we will disagree on many of the issues

06:21

She actually argued for lowering the the voting age to 16 and Her arguments actually made it to I guess that they're actually taking her arguments and using them in discussion right now in Congress and So we ended up frontal lobes of 16 year olds are not fully developed.

06:42

They're actually technically not full humans yet That's what her aunt said So her aunt was a is a science teacher in high school,

06:51

I believe and She so we ended up talking about gun control Obviously, I was outnumbered

06:59

We all know with the position I take on on gun control, you know,

07:05

I kind of am for these nice beauties but Yeah I'd love the debate gun control with people.

07:15

Yeah, so I did we did that then we got into a very extensive discussion on creation versus evolution here was the thing that got me

07:23

Matt is The amount of gaslighting that goes on in our public school systems to where people believe that What they're taught and because they hear it so often they think that is the only possible

07:39

Right way of thinking right Yeah, you're right. You did something with their microphone.

07:44

You changed it. Yeah, so that well I'll tell my microphone back on this so he can I can you guys can hear me. Oh, you can hear

07:52

Okay, good no problem then okay, I'll put it back where it was so Yes, we ended up it was interesting because the science teacher told me she

08:03

Didn't know there was anyone that she only says she deals with the homeschool moms and she didn't hear anyone actually give good arguments

08:10

Are you miss for what for? creation Against evolution and yet here's the thing.

08:16

I find is so many of them argue they argue for Adaptation and speciation something that we would agree with it and see in scriptures being of the same kind is the same kind of family animal family per se

08:32

That's You know, that's something we all agree on but what they do is a bait -and -switch.

08:38

They talk about special evolution and And they define evolution is just change. Well, everything changes.

08:43

I mean you a few years ago didn't need a cane to walk around You've changed. Yeah, no evolving. Yeah, that would be evolution.

08:50

But yeah, I'd be called devolving Yeah Yeah, but I mean that's the thing they end up doing a bait -and -switch where they say we'll see if it happens in in special evolution in the in the adaptation then you can suddenly change from one family of animal to another and Yeah, phyla change.

09:12

Yeah, and yet those that require two different things One is the loss of information in DNA and the other is the gaining of information in DNA We should have

09:21

Anthony on sometime we could talk about all of that kind of stuff I love to interact with that kind of information. Well, actually we will

09:27

I'm gonna be headed to the Philippines in May and he's gonna fill in for three

09:32

Thursdays. Yes so lots of Evolution debates that he needs to come on sooner because of the first week of May.

09:40

I'll probably not be on here because I'll be traveling Okay. Well, then maybe Eli and I will get on So I don't know if cat has any questions.

09:53

She's in here early. She likes to come in early So I've added her in cat if you have any questions,

09:59

I Wish I had something Absolutely phenomenal, but no, I just love listening

10:07

Okay, so maybe maybe Paul in in the chat would join us and because he's saying micro evolution is just More sorry macro evolution is just micro evolution over a long period of time

10:20

This well then if that's the case Then micro evolution is a reduction of the allele frequency where macro is an increase in it

10:27

The problem is that the people who say that kind of thing. They don't understand really the difference between them micro evolution is when you have

10:36

Say for example, there's a storm that blows a bunch of birds off the coast Hundreds of miles away to an island and there's no birds there

10:43

And so this is the only species of birds that's there and let's just say, you know 40 or 50 are blown off and now we have this new population of birds there.

10:53

Well, let's just further say that that island doesn't have much food that they like and Let's just say that In order to get the food that they have bigger bills and the bigger build ones will survive well, then the ones that the weaker smaller bills don't survive and they don't send out or descend or Reproduce and they as well and so they're eventually wiped out.

11:17

So their genetics are wiped out and so whenever a manifestation of that genetic information of a small bill manifests then

11:25

It's wiped out because they don't they don't they don't pass on their genes because they can't eat Well, then that would mean then micro evolution is in this sense the bigger build ones

11:36

But it's not because they have new information that makes their bills bigger. It's because whenever a small build genetic information

11:42

Rises it's removed. So it's reduction of the information. That's usually what speciation is in that sense

11:49

That's not always case, but there's there's variations like that macro evolution is a rather Humongous significant change and increase in genetic information

11:58

So, how do you change from a fish to an amphibian the genetic information that's necessary for that is is this phenomenal?

12:06

It's the amount of information called a phyla change. He's gonna do the tape on the box And So the phyla change is a body type change and that this is the fossil record supposedly so it's 530 to 550 million years ago the

12:22

Cambrian explosion where phyla body changes these phyla changes produced very very quickly and it's just not enough time for evolution to account for Absolutely, not enough time the amount of information necessary for that to occur is just way too huge It cannot occur even in that millions and millions of years people who say that just don't know the facts and In science classes, they don't talk about the counter in for information to To evolution none of its produced.

12:54

None of its presented and there is counter ever information And you bring up the point because when we talk about special Evolution, which is what some what he's referring to is micro in the small changes adaptation

13:08

Species and things like that is a loss of information in DNA that Christians Christian Christian scientists agree that that happens

13:17

That is the idea of natural selection that's the idea of being of what they refer to as evolution, but as this person says the

13:27

Assumption that those changes losing DNA over time the example you give with the the beak

13:34

The bird has the DNA for both a long and short beak It's it's in the

13:41

DNA Now over time it might lose one of those that information but That when we talk about what he's referring to is micro evolution or general evolution that requires new

13:57

Reproducible beneficial information in the DNA we see plenty of new information in DNA. It's called

14:03

Cancer, I mean, you know, we see mutations that occur the mutations we see

14:11

Most often are not beneficial There are some that are beneficial but those that are beneficial are not reproducible

14:20

For evolution to be true in what as they claim we have to have beneficial and reproducible happening

14:26

So often that we see it happening over time and yet we don't see evidence of any of it anywhere ever being both beneficial and reproducible in those mutations

14:40

Yep Evolution has all kinds of problems and I'd show you my books, but we're packing them

14:45

On evolution and various books that work against evolution that demonstrate a lot of the facts

14:53

This is what gets me is They don't teach both sides of the story in science.

14:59

They only teach one and When counter evidence is proposed it's knocked down and not allowed there are plenty of accounts where people will have to arrange debates in colleges between evolutionists and those who are intelligent design and there'll be people who will pick it and Say that intelligent design is not allowed to be even debated and they've actually had meetings canceled and debates canceled because Students and faculty have put on pressure to not allow it

15:33

Well, this is supposed to be an ecology where both sides are supposed to be presented information education So it just tells me that no really really what's happening is it's not an issue of Truth.

15:43

In fact, it's an issue of agenda. That is often the case for so many things. Well, it's censorship They they can't handle the debate and so they would need to censor and that's what we see over and over again

15:55

And and that's what's you know, you have a whole generation of kids that are unfortunately believing that they're right just because it's the only view they hear and They don't even know the bait -and -switch that's being played for them

16:07

That's right. Amen to that, you know Matt do you think there was a flood and the entire earth was covered in water and you say people don't know the facts?

16:16

well Paul the Bible says all the Mountains were covered. I have no problem with that.

16:22

And also Paul what you don't understand is that there are sedimentary Layers with fossils in them in high mountains all over the world all over the world.

16:31

How do you account for that? You can say that it just wasn't wasn't true You can mock it you can do whatever you want

16:38

But flood stories exist in every single culture around the entire world

16:43

Every single one has a major flood story not just the river overflowed three years ago no a a

16:50

Story their great history about a flood destroying everything and every culture has that something happened in the past Paul maybe you might want to stop

17:00

You know your mocking tone and do some homework do some studying Well, and here's the thing you just brought up the

17:07

Cambrian explosion Where all these fossils suddenly somehow we have all this fossil record.

17:13

Well, that would explain the flood I mean, that's that's basically what that is. We look at the flood.

17:20

That's what we end up clean we see a whole bunch of fossils that all come about in one time and There's the this is the problem with and Paul you're welcome to join us because what you end up seeing is people that make

17:36

Statements because they have want their gaslighted. They've they believe it's true because they've been told it's true over and over I'm gonna bring in I know his name is not amber.

17:46

He uses his his wife's account Let me turn his volume up. I believe and you could correct me.

17:53

I think your name was Steve. Yes Okay, I'm not hearing you

17:59

Make sure up. I didn't hear you now. I hear you Yes All right, it's not amber we're not gonna have a problem with where you're not sure

18:11

No, she's she's over there She's over there cooking the calzones She's over there cooking my mom and her cooking calzones for supper.

18:20

Oh, wow Yeah, I haven't seen you. I hope you're shipping some this way. No. No, the story is

18:26

I haven't seen my mom in 15 years. I moved here to Missouri and You know, she's a believer

18:35

My whole testimony starts with her. But anyways, we flew her out here She's gonna be staying out here for about a month and a half or so, so really good really good good

18:48

I'll give any could you ship some calzones over this way? I'm just saying so what what questions do you have tonight? So I I had a default for you know,

18:59

I I came to the doctrines of grace a while ago and the one the doctrine that I had

19:09

Kind of defaulted on basically like a default position was on the atonement.

19:16

I see exegetically from the scriptures, I think probably the one

19:22

I usually go to is the one in Colossians and the one in Hebrews were you know about the

19:30

What's that? Yeah, what's banging? Yeah, that's her chopping stuff up so my question is

19:40

I got it. Anyways, I got a preach tomorrow, but I'm trying to run. I'm trying to help my mom out

19:47

In what respect with the limited atonement, that's easy.

19:54

Yeah Sort of because she has a Independent fundamentalist background so do

20:03

I well, how about this after this ask her? Ask her what does it mean for Jesus to pay for for people's sins?

20:14

People we've heard this a hundred times. But what does it actually mean? and You know, they give all kinds of answers.

20:21

Well, it means he He paid for him. I got that he paid for him. What does it mean to pay for them?

20:27

Is you know, I need to start throwing out questions as a sin debt canceled But he he took the sins that we committed and paid for them

20:35

Well, what does it mean to pay for a sin you start asking questions like this because what does it mean to pay for a sin?

20:43

What's the effect once a sins paid for it's like a debt You know, you have a debt you don't lay away.

20:50

Whatever a dead something you a car and you pay it off So it's paid for does the debt exist anymore, you know

20:57

And when does it not exist when you believe or when it's paid for just questions like this get her thinking she go

21:02

That's right, you know Yeah, yeah, right on but I enjoy you guys

21:08

I tell I tell Amber all the time I'm gonna go check out my my new friend

21:13

Matt And she says I only spoke to you a few times. So we're not friends, but I don't believe her.

21:18

I think we're friends That works When Matt starts insulting you then, you know, you're his friend

21:28

That's why I don't insult Andrew I just tell the truth Yeah I'm just hanging out here.

21:43

I appreciate you guys though. I'm just Okay, well good man. So good. All right, then we'll

21:50

We'll so I'm gonna mute you if you want to come back in just I got say something out. You got something else

21:55

Hold on I got to go to this Recovery house and I got invited to minister there

22:05

Once a week, so just keep that in prayer because where you're going tomorrow night that you said you're gonna be. Yeah tomorrow night's gonna be my tomorrow night's gonna

22:15

Tomorrow night will be my first night. And if they if they want me to come back then it'll be one so once a week

22:21

Okay, so we'll keep that in prayer right on We will so I'm gonna

22:28

Down if you want to join back in just raise your hand. I'll see I Added Andrew in our friend from down under see if you have questions here for us tonight,

22:38

Andrew Yeah, you alluded to devolution

22:47

Don't know how to phrase it but I recall watching a DVD or a

22:53

YouTube clip of Australian who claimed to discover Some form of devolution

23:04

So the loss of information and then the like of this that comes in the steps

23:10

How is that even possible? Genomic entropy is what you're talking about Yeah, I was talking about some discovery of Different to different sort of species breeds of Humanity that they found in China or somewhere

23:32

And the only way that they could actually make it work was to take to a devolution level

23:38

So we've gone back instead of going up Yeah, that's who I checked it out who wrote it.

23:44

I Don't know. It was a YouTube clip. It was an Australian clip in China going in China.

23:50

There was a whole Drama put before it as They try to do to present the position of these two tribes finding each other and killing each other sort of thing

24:04

And or interact more well not kill but to in a way of interacting But it was kind of that was the first Place I've heard or ever heard really of the devolution in any serious

24:18

Format because I don't think there's any any Significant atheists.

24:24

I don't think you'd find Dawkins or even Hitchens Lay Hitchens or anybody else even supporting a devolution

24:34

I heard recently about genetic entropy and what it is is our code our genetic code with each generation is is a little bit less efficient and That that within 200 more generations.

24:53

Someone said 200 to 250 reproduction will be impossible Yeah, I forget that I forget the name and the book upstairs

25:04

I'm gonna research it and see The idea behind that are are the

25:12

DNA as it continues to be passed on keeps degrading and there Is a limit to how often how many

25:22

Generations you would be able to have before the DNA breaks down too much to where reproductions now

25:28

We know that's the case. We've observed that very phenomena with leftists because they have lots of kids really fast

25:35

There's been a lot of genetic Entropy in their line lineage. Yeah, but then they then they have abortion.

25:40

So they end up wiping out most of their voters that way Yeah, it's boy anyway, but yeah anyway, all right, so Anyway, I was gonna say in addition to that.

25:56

You've got the leftists like What's the name? I can't really I can't remember her name, but the senator Cortez whatever name is trying to say

26:05

Yeah, I see I see our Cortez trying to say that in 12 years we won't even be

26:13

Yeah, I know but you know what the problem is Al Gore said Here in 15 years and we're still here

26:21

Yeah, well I was gonna say about 30 years ago they said 12 years until the end of the

26:27

You know, it's like Overdouble that she does say a lot of stupid things, you know when when

26:35

Matt and I were kids We were supposedly going back into a global ice age and the solution was government control now

26:45

Supposedly we're going into global warming and the solution is government control There seems to be a pattern there and now that we're going back into a cooling phase now, we don't call it global warming

26:56

We call it well climate change, but you're not allowed to use that name anymore because now it's extreme weather

27:03

So what's the solution Matt? God no government control.

27:08

That's oh, yeah Sorry anymore government control government control because your government always works.

27:13

Well, you know always controls things better. We just look at Venezuela I'm trying I'm trying to be funny when

27:20

I said God, that's all. Yeah So I do hope that Paul will join us.

27:27

I see that he's active. He's been active on In the chat we already did

27:36

Sorry, what's Cameron doing some problems over there? Yeah, Nick wants me to get rid of more my books.

27:41

I'm like, uh, we'll talk I've already given away hundreds. You know,

27:46

I think I can make some room around here. My Mormon section can use some Expansion, you know what if I'd have known you're not gonna done what's gone through and taking some

27:55

Mormon stuff out But I get to a new place. I'll be Calling a lot of a books what

28:00

I've got Now I'll just have Cameron send them all here right over here so for YouTube my challenge is

28:10

Don't be a keyboard warrior. Yeah Stand on your convictions come in here and challenge us.

28:19

I mean don't just say that we don't know what we're talking about It's amazing how they you know guys like this guy

28:26

Paul who just doesn't want to Come in here doesn't want to actually

28:33

Challenge just wants to challenge online. I think it's because these guys know that their arguments are not sound they can't

28:42

Really make a good argument and therefore they're there. It's easy to type it and run away

28:49

You know I'm listening. I'm just watching the rain

28:56

The other day Malone had Johnson safari on and earlier this morning

29:04

He had him on as a part of a different interview one of these shows where it goes for a certain time and then ends

29:09

That's quite interesting so so Matt until we unless Andrew.

29:17

Do you have any other questions Andrew? Okay, so until some folks want to come in and maybe give some challenges here whoa

29:27

Hey, we got marble -sized hail happening here right now loving it Why didn't you bring your camera with you so we could see it?

29:34

My phone camera no on the computer bring the whole computer.

29:43

Yeah, that'd be funny That would be good so Matt Let's let's talk gun control

29:53

I'm against it. So why why would you I'm from Jersey? I must be for gun control

30:02

What would be your best arguments why you'd be against gun for one thing it's unbiblical

30:11

What verse Let us secure He's what he meant

30:18

Matt came in to a room to get his phone so he could take a picture. Yeah I'm hailing outside.

30:25

It's awesome. All right. Well I'm gonna so do you want to you want to give some arguments for for gun control?

30:35

If not, Brian just came in. He was one of the guys that was in chat so Well gun control.

30:43

I mean What happens generally speaking when you take people's weapons away from them?

30:48

They're not able to defend themselves and it's the wicked who Want the good to be defenseless so that the wicked are the ones who are able to Do what they want and the power -hungry sociopath in government, you know, they want to take away our guns

31:05

So that they can be in control of us you know what happened in and New Zealand the idiocy of them say well

31:16

Let's ban more weapons because that'll solve everything No, it's not gonna solve everything, you know in England, they don't you know, people can't have guns.

31:25

Well, wow, look at that cool, here's the Hail that we're having out there

31:33

Pretty cool. And you know, it's neat about them. You are cold that it's not even melting in your hand

31:41

And So in England actually what's happening is there's what a knife attack every five minutes or something like that You know, what do you do outlaw knives now?

31:52

No, it's just ridiculous So I want to be able to defend myself and defend my family

32:00

Yeah, I think baseball bats are the actually number one weapon of violence in America Can you do that in there?

32:07

So I'm going to add Brian in here He was one of the guys that was chatting in the chat room

32:15

It sounds like it looks like he may be in a warehouse. So I'm hoping

32:22

So you're now added Brian. Let's see if we can hear you. You gotta unmute yourself, though Good so it sounds like you might be in a warehouse or something there.

32:35

Yeah, I'll stay muted until I'm speaking Sure, so go for it. So what questions do you got?

32:42

Well, I just got timed out in the chat. What's up with that? Are you the one who was insulting or what?

32:50

Well, I can give you the answer to that he was timed out for mocking and distracting it's only a timeout

32:58

Okay Okay He just proved it

33:05

I think yeah I'm going back to me. So Brian, do you have a question?

33:12

He can be on timeout if he's gonna cuss That's it. No, I think he can be respectful

33:17

So only if he agrees not to cuss not to be insulting and if he doesn't agree, he's gone

33:23

This is a grown -up conversation. We want to have we don't want to have Purell conversation and foul language

33:29

So are you able to do that Brian? Yeah, but the problem with that is there are multiple studies that show the intelligence of people who use profanity on a regular is that?

33:39

Okay, I'm not gonna play with him. He either agrees or he doesn't have a conversation in here I don't want to have someone come in and justify why it's okay to have foul language

33:48

So I'm not interested in having a conversation with Brian. Do you want it? Do you have some questions? Yeah Is that okay?

34:02

Yeah, we're waiting Yeah On Facebook You seem to have a hard -on for Okay, get rid of them.

34:14

Get rid of them. Please get rid of them Okay. Yeah my guess is my guess is just by You know the group that he's referring to There's a there's a guy who

34:29

Wanted to debate me Matt based on things that Anthony Sylvester said things that you said

34:36

When I said I didn't say them so I'm not gonna debate things I haven't said it was exposed that I was right and he was wrong and to save face his

34:47

Argument was that I ran from the debate three people set up tried setting up a debate with the guy and he denied all three times the reality is is that His argument because I'm guessing since he was

35:02

Starting to refer to homosexuality these guys came up with an argument. This is their logic Matt if you group other letters with LGTB there

35:12

I was asked to speak on LG TP and plus One of the things that some people want to add to plus is

35:20

M which is maps minor attracted people Their argument is that I'm claiming if I add an

35:26

M that all homosexuals are pedophiles Ridiculous.

35:31

Yeah, it wouldn't be because That's the case. They wanted to say L's all L's are

35:37

B's and all B's are G's That's what was the problem in the logic The if the gay stands for males and homosexual and the

35:46

L stands for women who are homosexual you you can't have those two then because They would be mutually exclusive, right?

35:54

I mean, that's what shows that the illogic of it That this is they each letter has a separate meaning

36:03

There the fact is they're the ones that keep coming after me I'm not I don't bring up the issue and what they're responding to the irony is they're responding to a message

36:11

I gave where I talked about how showing respect and compassion Something they have yet to do Yeah, well, you know how the leftists are there the hypocrisy of leftism is

36:23

Profound they want freedom of speech, but not for you. They want respect but not for you They want fairness but not for you.

36:29

That's just how it is with them. They're You know, I never really understood seriously and I'm not joking when

36:37

Jesus would say to the Pharisees you hypocrites. Oh, I went. Okay, we're hypocrites. I don't quite get it now.

36:43

I'm getting it Why it's so important about hypocrisy and it's the left that is really show me that Well, you know, it's interesting and traditional

36:56

Catholic is in we'll bring him up in a minute. But you know when we look at Politically, this is what we see.

37:03

We see censorship that you know, they talked about tolerance and being open -minded and being

37:11

You're not judging other people Until they felt they had enough of the control of the culture to then say now anyone that disagrees was had to be silent

37:20

It shows that they really weren't interested in tolerance. I mean Trump had to actually do an executive order

37:26

To say that colleges that receive government funding have to be open to free speech

37:34

That's where they used to argue for free speech when they were trying to push liberal ideas now that they Have the the liberal ideas kind of entrenched they don't want to open and free discussion anymore

37:45

Yeah. Oh, yeah, the you know, the colleges are agenda factories are not higher higher education factories when

37:53

I went to college back in the 80s The left -leaning this was just there and the lack of ability of critical thinking was profound among the faculty

38:03

I've got stories about my interaction with some of the faculty that are at a secular college and and Let's just say

38:10

I had a reputation at this one junior college But I went to for a couple of years had a reputation there and they were afraid of me and it's not because I was

38:18

Mean it wasn't because I was threatening. I just be in a class. I Want this what about that? What this question? I would just do this

38:23

I just ask questions and I'm like, well, I don't agree with that and and they didn't want to to talk with me after a while Because I was a student who who actually said what about the other side about this about that?

38:34

Well, they can't teach critical thing, I mean you can't teach critical thinking and evolution because They're mutually exclusive you you know, you know, but basically what you end up seeing is that they're not really interested in Free thinking they're not interested in opposing views

38:51

They want to shut it down because they they can't they just can't win in the debate of ideas right, they can't that's why

39:00

I say it's agendas and It's what that's why they they put up you know promote

39:07

Legislation like the Green New Deal and then go, you know, oh we don't actually want that voted on.

39:14

What is he doing? during the Door off or something

39:21

Because my back is gone he's come over he took a day off from work to color and help me and so he's doing all

39:27

The work it's great. Well, it's it's good that Cameron's finally working Yeah, probably getting done, yeah, he's taking

39:35

She look there's no Look like that before he really left a mess there.

39:40

Look at that. Yeah, there's oh, yeah they have been in here for 15 years books and stuff like that and we're moving and My back is out.

39:49

So I haven't been able to do much. We got guys coming over this could be and so anyway All right.

39:56

So I I brought in a traditional Catholic He's been here before bringing his volume up and so Sorry about this.

40:07

I forgot your name. I want to say it's Peter, but I can't remember James I'm sorry.

40:14

Forgive me. So James go ahead with what your question Yeah, there was another well,

40:19

I had three questions if that's okay. It's shouldn't take that long to answer but but There was another hangout group that was on YouTube where they were supposedly white nationalists and I don't know if you heard the news about Facebook banning

40:34

Censoring all white nationalists. It's it's been reported today But if you go on Facebook and you type in black nationalists a whole bunch of you know pages will come up But I'm against all you know, whether it be black nationalists white nationalists or any other kind of nationalists

40:51

I think it is all racist but in that hangout group They said that uh, and I can't remember what

40:58

Scripture that they they presented but they said it's actually biblical that Different nations meaning and they said that the different nations are referring referring to different peoples, you know, like black white, etc

41:12

And that it's specifically saying that they should remain separate or something like that That's called kinism.

41:20

They think Yeah, they quoted the scriptures. I can't remember which ones and I told no that's not biblical and they quoted it

41:26

And I I didn't know exactly what to say once they quoted it. So maybe you might be familiar with that You know, it's you go to Genesis 125

41:35

God made the beast of the earth after their kind This is one of the verses they use so blacks with their kind whites with their kind, which is it's horrible exegesis

41:47

And so kinism is The idea you stay within your own race and economic structure that is race oriented as well

41:58

So there's a certain website that talks about it is our white peoples have an in an

42:05

Inalienable that is God -given right and duty to seek their own prosperity and existence as distinct nations

42:10

Apart from all other genetic and ethnic families. We believe the cultures of our European ancestry to have achieved a similarity

42:18

Which allows them to seek unity where unity is conducive to the glorification of God We further recognize the value the uniqueness preciousness of all the families of man of God are equal a theoretical

42:29

Participation of salvation offered by God through election. So they they sound good a lot of areas both I do

42:34

Blacks blacks white with white and things like that and economic diversification also based in part on that I Figured they were trying to twist scripture and I have another question.

42:47

You had said that you before that you've had experience with Apparitions demonic activity.

42:55

Yes The the last apparition that you spoke of you said that it turned into a cross

43:00

Yes, and I was wondering do you believe that that was? An angel from God or was that or do you believe that was some sort of demonic being demonic?

43:13

okay, and My third question is this in context with the whole moving that's taking place

43:19

I'm sure you've seen movies like the conjuring I don't know if you've seen them or not the conjuring Amityville horror, you know movies about where paranormal activity is

43:29

In a home whereby the people they moved right this home that other people there was a history in the home Right off the home that you're moving into is something that other families lived in but in Catholicism usually we have a home blessed with holy water and You know, we we call on the

43:47

Lord's name in the Trinity. Oh, you know in the name of the Father the Son Holy Spirit Can we rebuke any demonic entities that's in the home and That's when we move into a home that's been used at least, you know, some

44:00

Catholics do that But What's in Protestantism? What is what is the process and with Protestants whenever moving into a home?

44:10

There is no official Protestant methodology Like that, but what

44:16

I will probably do when I get into the home we eventually buy is I'm sure it'll be used and what

44:22

I will do is go through and take oil and just Anoint every single wall every single room every single door every single window

44:31

Just very lightly it'll take me an hour or two go through the entire house praying out loud and just asking the

44:38

Lord to bless And to bind any potential evil that may have occurred, etc, etc That kind of a thing

44:44

I've done it in houses before then it to this house. In fact in this house here We started having a few years ago.

44:52

We started having issues odd things that started becoming more prevalent in the house and even to the point where one of my daughters said that she saw a figure in a hallway and What so, you know, it wasn't much.

45:06

It's like there's anything is this anything and then it's our he starts We started, you know more and more things a little odd things.

45:12

Where's this? This has been you know, I put it right there It's not there anymore. Where's that? Why did you show up over here?

45:18

Just so that you wonder about and then when she said that someone else actually said that they saw a figure and then she saw

45:24

Figure then my other daughter said she saw something. I went. Okay, so my wife took everybody away went out and saw a movie or something and I anointed the entire house all of it and I mean everything took me about an hour and After that, we had no problems.

45:42

I'm not saying you do some mystical thing like that. Things are gonna work But I'm just telling you that that's what I did.

45:51

Okay, and I just wanted to say That's all the questions I have but I just wanted to say that We Catholics agree with you

45:58

Matt with the whole covenantal covenantalism We reject dispensationalism

46:04

My history. Oh, you know, let me say something about this. I'm actually working on an article On divine simplicity two articles.

46:13

What is divine simplicity a little bit of its history a little bit of this explanation But I'm writing a divine simplicity as it relates to the doctrine of the

46:20

Trinity and one of the statements I made is you know, the Catholics and the Protestants both affirm

46:27

In divine simplicity and I went to oh, I can't believe I remember this I think was paragraph 43 in the

46:32

CCC, which I thought was good enough and Then out of the Belgian convention convention confession

46:39

Wow a part of certain thing Anyway, so Catholicism has a lot of good stuff in it to Trinity hypostatic

46:45

Union Communicati with your Mottam has various things, but it also has its heresies as well.

46:50

So not everything in Catholicism is wrong and I tell people that every now and then they're surprised to hear me say that but You know, they can do some things that are on the right side, but that's about it

47:05

And for folks CCC you're referring to the Catholic catechism that came out under John Paul the second

47:12

Yeah catechism of the Catholic Church CCC and it has Neil Loebstadt in the imprimatur, which means it's official and For certificantists,

47:22

I'll just have to find more information in out of cancel it council at Trent and Things like that, but the

47:27

CCC is just easier to work I have the entire Council of Trent online on my computer and stuff like that can go through things

47:37

Anyway, all right. So name to get anything else for us tonight He's still muted.

47:46

So I'm gonna sit think that's a no. All right. I just I added Chris Harris We always get some good reformed discussions when he has questions, so I've added him

47:56

I checked to make sure his Volumes up. So Chris if you want to unmute yourself Unless of course he won't nut.

48:05

There we go Good okay Didn't have any questions.

48:13

I just came in to See you guys, but I mean if you'd want something I guess I can ask you mad about you brought up the atonement earlier

48:21

About what? You bought it. You brought up the atonement earlier. Yes, right as far as limited atonement and it was gonna ask you about that When you when you say that he paid the debt

48:33

What exactly do you mean that he paid the debt on the cross? What I understand it to mean is that sin is a legal problem

48:38

First John 3 4 says sin is lawlessness and laws by nature have punishments.

48:44

So there's a consequence so it says it's a debt and You've heard the phrase, you know paid our debt to society well society

48:53

Takes the place in this issue of the issuer of the law and in the biblical sense

48:58

God is the issuer of the law. So when we lie, we offend God's character We're saying that it's okay to lie.

49:04

Oh, it's okay to be contrary to him If he were to not deal with that he would be permitting evil and unrighteousness

49:12

To occur without dealing with it and that would be unrighteous in itself. God deals with us So nevertheless sin is breaking the law of God first John 3 4

49:21

Jesus equates sin with legal debt our father heart in heaven. Hallowed be thy name in Matthew 6 12

49:27

He says forgive us our sins our debts in Luke 11 for forgive us our our sins.

49:32

So he equates legal sin with debt and Legal sins could be transferred Our debts can be transferred

49:38

So he bore our sin in his body in the cross since breaking the law of God the breaking of the law

49:43

That issue is a legal debt transferred to Christ on the cross first Peter 2 24 So when he paid it at the wages of sin is death

49:51

Romans 6 23 Then he paid the requirement of the law of sin, which is death

49:57

So by imputation our sin was imputed to him 2 ,000 years ago And then he died with that sin so that that sin debt is now paid and because it's paid it's canceled at the cross the

50:10

Colossians 2 14 and Therefore it cannot be the case that The sin debt that has been paid which is also canceled.

50:20

It cannot be held Against anybody whose sin debts actually been paid and canceled

50:28

Yeah How's it to become to limited atonement by that so Did Christ pay a certain amount of the cross

50:43

I'd like to phrase certain amount. Let's do it this way Did he the question, you know

50:49

There's two questions he either paid for the sins of everybody ever lived or it's not the case that he paid for this is everybody

50:54

Ever looked both of them cannot be true So if he paid for the sins of everybody who ever lived that he paid their sin debt

51:01

If a debts paid the debt doesn't exist anymore So if the debt doesn't exist anymore

51:07

That means a sin that they are that they've committed has been satisfied has been removed. It's been taken care of So, how can anybody then go to hell?

51:16

Because it's been removed Right. I see what you're saying there. So how is it that from a limited atonement position we escape eternal justification?

51:27

Not shooting me my eternal justification we're not eternally justified in the sense that we're justified back then because what happens is

51:34

Our sin that is removed at the cross, but we're not justified until we believe It's a now and then not yet.

51:40

So Jesus removed our sin. That's why federal headship is Necessarily part of the atoning work in concert with limited atonement

51:48

Federal headship is the doctrine at the male represents a descendants Jesus represented His people all that the father gives me will come to me

51:56

The ones are given to him by the father are the ones who will come to him And so he took care of their sin

52:04

And it cannot be that he took care of everybody's sin Because if he did then nobody could go to hell since people do go to hell and are judged it's logically necessary to say that he only bore the sins of Certain group of people and so we would say that the blood of Christ and this is what

52:20

I say I'm one who says this or nobody else who says it Doesn't mean others theologians haven't but I say the blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse all people of all sin

52:31

But legally he only bore the sin of the elect because his own the only actual transfer of sin debt was was

52:40

Of the elect and the way that the Puritans would say it is that it was sufficient for all but effective for few yeah,

52:50

I see the blood of Christ and I separated a little bit the blood of Christ from the legal transference because Sin is a legal problem a legal debt

52:59

Jesus said in John 19 30 it is finished to tell us die in the Greek which has been found on the bottom of ancient Tax receipts handwritten a legal debts been paid in full.

53:07

That's what it meant And that's how it was used in many contexts. And so we have that Jesus saying on the cross

53:13

So he he paid for it now his blood because by the nature of it being God divine It's infinitely capable but if it's infinitely capable in that sense that It's combined with the payment of sin.

53:27

Well, then who's sin and here's another thing it's a problem with open theism is that the open theist can't really say which sins are imputed to Christ because I'm gonna kill two three birds with one stone here.

53:38

The idea of open theism is that God knows? Generically what will happen in the future but not specifically because he can't know

53:45

Exhaustively and specifically the free will choices of all people throughout all time. Otherwise, you're not free which is stupid

53:53

So I asked the open theist I say then what sins were imputed to Christ 2 ,000 years ago of the people who specifically were going to do various things later on and They really can't answer the question.

54:06

Well, it's just generic sin. What does that mean? What's generic sin? What is generic sin?

54:13

No, it's actual sins that we have committed that had to be dealt with Not generic sin sin is a generic thing.

54:20

There's some sin out there in the world. Let me catch up with but okay Got some right here some generic sin. It doesn't make any sense

54:26

So when we understand that Jesus 2 ,000 years ago bore our sin in his body in the cross first Peter 2 24 and It says in Romans 6 6

54:35

Romans 6 8 that were crucified with Christ. We died with Christ The only way we can you know

54:41

I ask people I say when were you crucified with Christ when you believe or when Jesus died in the cross and they say we Don't believe I believe no.

54:47

No, no, you're crucified with him You died with him

54:53

Romans 6 8 Romans 6 6 correctively. So when did he die 2 ,000 years ago?

54:58

So when did you die with him? 2 ,000 years ago. Well, when were you crucified with him? 2 ,000 years ago this because they can't get it because they don't understand biblical theology regarding the doctrine of Federal headship and the only way we could have died with him is if he represented us.

55:15

That's what federal headship is so that means that the ones were given to him by the Father were the ones that he came to redeem or the ones the

55:22

Sins that were imputed to him on the cross and he canceled their sin debt at the cross Colossians 2 14 not when you believe

55:30

So your sin debt is canceled at the cross God infallibly brings people that are elected for salvation and atoned for into the faith

55:38

They are then justified by faith when they believe so what I say is that 2 ,000 years ago your sins were removed and When you believe you're justified so we have a person right here.

55:52

This sin was removed taken away 2 ,000 years ago and Salvation occurred or justification occurred when you believe and it makes sense

56:06

Yeah, um, but one of the question like if we're gonna say that Christ bore the sins of the elect only he paid for the sins of the elect only

56:15

How do we escape like if we say that he only bore the sins of the elect and how do we escape a commercial view of the atonement versus a penal substitutionary view virtual view that he would generically bore the sin of everybody no, no commercial view would be like if cry it like like say like say sin was like canned goods in a grocery store and Jesus came into the store and he was only gonna purchase certain items

56:41

And so he Pays a certain price for those items only and that would be a commercial understanding of the atonement

56:52

Commercial theory of the atonement By Anselm that sin robbed

56:58

God of his honor Therefore is necessary to have God's honor restored by either punishing sinners or through an atonement

57:05

God chose to atone by the death of Christ which brought honor to God the problem with this theory is that the motivation of God's atoning work is holiness rather than love and That's it goes into compartmentalizing

57:17

God I'm not sure what the commercial theory is in That context

57:33

Well when we say he only spilled a certain amount of blood that's a meaningless kind of a statement because Well, you know, the human body only has so much volume of blood

57:41

So what would I mean a certain amount of you know? Well, okay, but he only he only he only bore

57:49

X amount of sin or he only paid for X amount of sin When he could have paid for more would be the partial view a penal substitution well

57:59

Yeah, I mean you only paid for the sins of the elect as a limited amount of sin Right, right, but I think and you brought up Owens Owens Dilemma I think is what it's called earlier with if he only bore the sins of some of the people

58:13

And so forth the way that Owen laid it out, which I agree with. Um, I think people confuse that with a commercial

58:20

Commercial understanding of the atonement where Owen himself would have grounded the limitation of the atonement in the intention of the

58:27

Godhead so he'd have pushed it back to the covenant of redemption and who it was that the father elected and that was the

58:33

That was the ones who Christ would procure their salvation Right, but but they would say that that work on the cross was sufficient to pay for all the sins of This world plus an infinite amount of others.

58:49

It doesn't make any sense It was when people say it was sufficient for all on the cross What does it mean and what way was it sufficient?

58:58

Sure. I'll explain it real quick So, you know, if we look at the what would the death that we owe is a penal debt right

59:04

God is a judge We have to stand before in order to have judgment on our sin Well, the judgment for that sin is death right the wages of sin is death so Christ paid that judgment with his death and and the idea is is that even if Even if the elect consisted only of one person that had one sin

59:27

Then the work that Christ did would have had to been the exact same that he that he did Same yeah, he would have had to done the exact same thing that he did

59:37

Even if you had to pay for the sin of one person and that person only had one sin that makes sense.

59:44

I Think so but I don't see a differentiation between the penal substitution or atonement theory because it's it just and Limited atonement.

59:51

It just says that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. That's a limited amount of sins right,

01:00:00

I Really think that sometimes I get put gets pushed into the commercial view. But anyway All right,

01:00:08

I'm trying to understand the commercial it's what allows it's what allows for Well, I'm being told this

01:00:16

I think it was I think there's been some new look into hypothetical universalism where or that the work of the cross was hypothetically or is hypothetically available to all people because the atonement was made for all people in the sense that The work of the cross was sufficient for our people so the no, no, no,

01:00:34

I Wouldn't buy that. He's a propitiation for our sins by definition. The atonement is a propitiation

01:00:39

The propitiation is the thing that turns away wrath. It doesn't make it possible. It actually does remove it. So if That would be the argument that if it does remove it and you're gonna fall back into the eternal justification like the no, no

01:00:54

No, they're not No, they're not No, I've never thought that eternal justification.

01:01:01

They don't even exist. How can they be, you know justified? Well people say well, then how could they have their sins born?

01:01:07

That's you know, that's a toughy But I understand the idea of eternal justification because but it's the problem is justification

01:01:17

Occurs upon belief so they've not believed they can't be justified So there's a sense in which you could say they're eternally justified in the sense that God has decreed that they are to be justified.

01:01:30

And so in his mind sufficiently they they have been just as in Romans 9 28 Romans 8 28 29 those who before knew you also also predestined and also glorified in the word glorified

01:01:43

There's in the past tense and that's a future thing So God sees us as already having completed that in his mind because it's so complete and true

01:01:51

So there could be in that sense that we're justified. It's guaranteed even though in time it has not yet happened

01:01:57

So it depends on that. I think that what they mean by it. Yeah, I agree with that That's the way I've always explained it in the past There's always been that it's always been that you know

01:02:05

That it is good as done in the when it was when it was decreed in the Godhead, right?

01:02:10

So it's an already already not yet type situation. Yes, you it's realized temporally upon faith in Christ Which I think that's a great way to do it.

01:02:20

But lately I've been looking Looking into the atonement itself more and I just had some questions about it

01:02:28

Yeah yeah, it's uh, yeah, I think the The way to weave through some of the issues is to be more precise in our definitions in those kind of with those kind of things

01:02:42

It's you know, it's more sophisticated discussions getting more nuanced concepts on the nature

01:02:47

But limited atonement makes perfect sense to me any rate because since a legal debt legal debts transferred legal debts are canceled at the

01:02:55

Cross the wages in his death is done So who do you do if he paid for the sins of everybody and that means that all their sin debts canceled

01:03:02

They can't go to hell. We'll see and they would they would also look they would also push back to like John John chapter 1 where it says that John the

01:03:11

Baptist preached that or John 2 actually now John 1 John 1 119 through Okay, 28, but anyway, it's when

01:03:21

John the Baptist preached that this here's the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world Yeah, John 129

01:03:29

Then I ask when I asked to take away the sin of those who are damned It doesn't say that but doesn't say that right it says he takes it away presently he takes it away though the whole world

01:03:44

That's one one question. Well, did he take away of the what people who were in hell and the answer has to be no

01:04:03

No, John 129 he takes away the sin of the world now, there's two questions that need to be asked here

01:04:10

What does it mean to take away the sins, you know of those of people in hell? And what does the word world mean? They're gonna be saying that means every individual

01:04:18

If it means every individual who's ever lived then he takes away the sin of every individual whoever's lived

01:04:25

Right, and this is where Owen comes into play because that's Owen's Owen's dilemma once again So and remember that I told you because it's it's hard not to get

01:04:33

Owen confused with the commercial aspect of the atonement He would say that that limitation of who it was that the sin was taken away is only limited in the intention of the

01:04:43

Godhead You know in eternity in their decree in the covenant of redemption

01:04:49

So the limitation comes there and not in the work itself of Christ on the cross now that's an interesting thing because that's what

01:04:56

I've been wondering the kind of a thing because What does it mean?

01:05:03

To actually pay someone's sin debt or debt So if you and I are in a restaurant and we over here someone a mom with two kids and she lost her wallet and the manager is getting upset and we just say hey

01:05:14

Let's pull our money and pay your debt. We pay the meal, right? So we can understand what that is We're it's a limited debt payment.

01:05:21

We're not paying for everybody in the restaurant so we can understand that there's a an abstraction and And It's an intention in that we are paying that debt

01:05:33

But it works out in the real world of putting cash down for this theoretical thing called debt that she's incurred for food

01:05:42

At a restaurant. Well, this is all abstraction. And so we're making real time of it

01:05:47

Well, how does that work with with God, you know that Jesus only bore? This is a question

01:05:53

I was you know, these people who are against limited atonement could ask a question. What was it mean to bear the sin?

01:05:59

I think we should ask the question. What does it mean to bear the sin which it works either way?

01:06:06

Jesus can't it is he bearing in an abstraction? Or is there this intention of God only for the elect

01:06:16

What does this mean that he bore our sin in his body or what about first Samuel 3 14

01:06:23

Where it says God says I've sworn to the house that the house of Eli will not have the sins

01:06:30

Iniquity atone for by sacrifice or offering forever What does that mean? You know you really think about these terms?

01:06:37

what does it mean when the high priest would go in and it takes blood and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and Then they were propitiated to the people of Israel What's happening conceptually?

01:06:48

Intentionally, I think these are good conversations to have I don't know all the answers

01:06:54

But I do know spiritually something happened and it only makes sense to say that he bore the sin of the elect which means there has to be an intentional accounting of That person right there.

01:07:05

Just the same as you and I pay that bill of the woman at that table But not the bill of the next table.

01:07:13

We're actually doing that So I think there's a similar occurrence in the spiritual realm, which

01:07:18

I can't prove or describe but That's it this issue of the abstraction of the nature of the atonement

01:07:24

I've been thinking about recently and it's I'm coming up to raise more questions than I can answer right now True truth see

01:07:31

I'm in that same boat, right? So I think that when we look at it from their perspective of the limitation comes in the

01:07:37

Godhead right in the covenant of redemption So like I said The father chooses the people to elect the son the son is sent to procure their salvation and the spirit applies that salvation so if we if we put the limitation in the

01:07:50

In the intention of the Godhead rather than in the work of the cross then we can allow for the work of the cross

01:07:55

To actually be sufficient without having but I don't know some commercial way but what does it mean to be limp to be efficient and I When I I'm gonna ask a bunch of questions and on this not to be just annoying

01:08:09

It's what does it mean to be efficient immediate questions? I would ask myself. I was doing an article.

01:08:15

Okay? What does it mean to be efficient? What does it mean to bear our sins? What does it mean to cancel the debt?

01:08:20

What does it mean to have a sin debt? I mean, these are things, you know,

01:08:25

I'm gonna work through these things because the answers to those things Are going to provide a better holistic answer, but I don't know if it's if it's worth it and furthermore

01:08:36

I don't know how really valuable it is to argue about limit atonement to begin with Yeah, but I agree with you.

01:08:42

I agree with you on that now some of this started when I looked into Calvin's understanding of the atonement

01:08:49

Because a lot of people try to put Calvin on one side of the particular redemption debate of the other which is really an anachronistic

01:08:55

He he never wrote of the atonement He there was a formula called the Lombardian formula that he was that was the formula of the day and it allowed for the sufficiency of the atonement but only efficacious for the elect so It wasn't till 27 years after Calvin passed that his successor and Theodore Beza Started the whole particular debate because he took that formula of Lombard and it had a preposition in it he was a he was a

01:09:20

Latin linguist and he said when he saw the preposition that says for because it had that the Christ died for he said that can only apply to the elect and that sparked a whole particular universal debate of the atonement, so the

01:09:37

Lombardian formula is what is what's used for the reform today to bring in the

01:09:43

The the model that Christ's death is sufficient for all but only efficacious for the elect

01:09:48

It can only be efficacious if there was somehow some way An intention to see this we get it to have to it's too abstract

01:10:01

Just I guess too many abstractions on this Yeah, well look into it more and check out if you have some some access to some journal articles.

01:10:11

There's one called the the Forgotten Let's see. How's it?

01:10:17

How's it worded? I'm outside. Sorry my kids my kids would be too loud So I'm not on my computer, but it's called the the the forgotten atonement the forgotten understanding atonement of Calvin I think it's a really good journal article by RuPaul's I believe it's got mm -hmm

01:10:35

It's a really good article on it and just check it out sometime It'd be worth checking out yeah,

01:10:42

I've been thinking more and more about this whole thing and You're questioning or our comments together

01:10:49

I should say are broaching that at that issue Yeah Yeah, seriously

01:10:59

All right Me too. All right, so Before we get we got another

01:11:08

Roman Catholic who's in here before we add him in. Oh, yeah, please. He's His name is

01:11:14

DL. We'll have to ask what his real name is Matt. You got something new from my pillow this week, haven't you?

01:11:21

Yes Hold on one second so so So Matt got himself the new my pillow

01:11:33

Sorry about that. Okay. Yes, I did. I got a new Bedtopper thing. Yep. Yeah, and so and you know folks who who listen regularly, you know that we are we were here by my pillow and Check out this picture man.

01:11:48

Let me share something on my screen here this is some of our listeners who got themselves a new my pillow and What they said they actually loved about it was what was included was some scripture references in the box so but they are very happy my pillow customers as you and I are and You got you got the new pillow topper.

01:12:13

Yes, I did. You're gonna you're gonna have to wait till it to use that Yes, is why am

01:12:18

I gonna have to wait to use it because you're too old to put it on your bed. That's Now actually

01:12:25

My yeah, I I actually used it one night got up. I feel good. This is it's nice.

01:12:31

It's really great I've been down to pick up two socks and my back went out and It's been happening more frequently the older I get and I've got to do something to strengthen it

01:12:44

So I'm gonna wait a few days put it back on and stuff I'm only starting to be able to walk again by myself without a you know, a cane or something just today

01:12:55

It was bad. I was crawling on the floor yesterday to get her out.

01:13:00

It's only way you move around Hey, look folks getting old is not for sissies

01:13:09

So so folks we do love are my pillows It's not just that they're a product that they advertise on Matt's look live.

01:13:17

We really do like it. We really enjoy our pillows And both of us have taken them on trips.

01:13:22

I take them on almost every trip I'm Probably gonna have to figure out how to fit it in because I'm probably limited in size when

01:13:29

I go to the Philippines But I'm gonna have to bring it to the Philippines You have to get one of those those suction things out and whatever

01:13:35

I had figured out, you know comes No come with it They come at least mine did came with the travel bag that you roll it up and so it

01:13:42

Vacuums it out and it's amazing because it sucks out all the air and then all you gotta do is open that bag Shake out the pillow and it's it's firm sure to go amazing

01:13:50

So if you want to get a my pillow Matt and I you can call 1 -800 -944 -5396

01:13:59

That's 1 -800 -944 -5396 Let them know that you heard about it on apologetics live and make sure you get yourself a my pillow

01:14:10

And so with that I'm gonna add DL into the group here into the room I make sure his volume is up You can unmute yourself and I don't know what his real name is.

01:14:23

So if he could tell us his real name when he unmutes himself Excuse me,

01:14:28

I don't know that I can unmute him. I can't Well, that's gonna be a really short discussion if you don't unmute yourself we're gonna type his question in Yeah Well, he was a more you had a question for him there.

01:14:44

There he goes. No, no, he did that's someone else coming in No, I thought he had

01:14:53

DL are you there? We'll give you a couple more seconds And if not, maybe he walked away and we'll go to train the thought who just came in Yeah, he's been texting with me

01:15:03

DL perhaps he was like me initially I didn't see that little navigation bar at the top with the microphone with the slash in it perhaps

01:15:12

Yeah, he's in a he's on a phone. So oh I see okay, what you have to do if you're listening and you're trying to figure it out just tap the screen and it should be a

01:15:22

Microphone button. I think it comes up as red when you have it muted and you just got to click the microphone button and start talking

01:15:31

Glad you said that I would have never figured it out on my phone Yeah So what we'll do is

01:15:39

I will add in Train of thought I know he's been commenting online on Google and There's Cameron.

01:15:50

There's Cameron taping up another box of books for me. Thank you, Cameron It's loud, yeah

01:15:57

It's horrible So for folks to know I I was trying I was texting Cameron over there and trying to say, you know

01:16:04

Get Cameron come up behind Matt and choke Matt out Why for everybody poke him in the eyeball?

01:16:14

I React people do things to me automatically. I just do an aggressive thing I laid my brother out once he did that and I was just telling

01:16:21

Cameron about maybe he's I don't know. Anyway, go ahead. So so yeah, so DL said

01:16:27

Andrew. Yes to accept or reject. Well just I guess I'm not sure what the what he's asking just unmute yourself.

01:16:38

I'm not sure what he's asking with the accept or Or reject so we're gonna go

01:16:51

We'll go over to train the thought let me make sure his volume is up so train of thought you can unmute yourself There you go

01:16:59

Okay That's good, that's good,

01:17:04

I was just texting in the chat and I had a question Right, and it might sound like it might it might have sounded dumb.

01:17:13

I don't know but I was just curious as to why Persecution exists like what what does

01:17:22

God use that for because you know, I see loneliness and persecution and these things and It makes me curious because I really

01:17:31

I don't know how God can use those things in a good God Can use persecution in several ways one to bring about his will

01:17:38

Sometimes when people are persecuted they suffer and when they suffer They cry out to God and that's a good thing

01:17:46

Sometimes people suffer and are persecuted because it's greater reward for them in heaven based on that Sometimes we're persecuted because we need to be purified in the church and that's another good thing

01:17:58

People are persecuted because that's the nature. Yeah, that's gonna keep that's right. Thanks What book is that that should go to me to the stars

01:18:11

George Takei and It's autographed And he wrote, you know to Matt to me and I have a letter from him, too so persecution can be used by God for different reasons, but it's often to purify and Plus there's just a nature of unrighteousness persecutes righteousness and It's just part of the nature of how it all works.

01:18:41

So there's some of the reasons I Guess I can kind of Understand it's just it's difficult because it's a it's a painful thing and for the most part.

01:18:55

It's like it's not good I guess there can be some some good in it. Oh Yeah that's you know, one of the things

01:19:02

I've been thinking about recently is You know, we don't want to suffer here now what if hypothetically, you know, we did we existed before we came to earth that's we don't but let's just say, you know, this is the case just for an issue of a discussion and And And God said look

01:19:22

I can arrange it your life so that you have a really nice life. It'll be comfortable You won't be persecuted Or I can arrange your life to be have some difficulties and persecution but in that persecution

01:19:33

You'll be praising my name and glorifying me and the result will be a higher reward in heaven a greater reward in heaven

01:19:41

Which would you pick? Me I would have been hesitation Let me pick that which will bring greatest glory to you and greatest reward

01:19:50

Admit I want that forever versus 70 80 years on life of life so persecutions a small fraction of eternity and It can be used to glorify

01:20:02

God to purify us to Bring about his will Also to demonstrate the goodness of good and the evilness of evil and things like that there's lots of reasons

01:20:15

Okay Cameron's awesome back there working for help is a great guy

01:20:23

He could hear me say that dang it He and I are shipping those books to me so he is a great guy

01:20:32

I like Cameron a lot Oh you all my books, huh? Maybe you know, I could ship a lot of amount of people.

01:20:38

I got way too many So did you have more train of thought that you were you sound like you unmuted yourself there for a second?

01:20:46

Yeah, I was just saying that was a good proposition when you put forth about You know having eternal life and going through Suffering compared to having you know, no pain in in this life and then dying, you know, right?

01:21:01

I was that was a good proposition Yeah, and I wonder about that, you know,

01:21:06

I mean, what's the greatest good for us is Your best life now the greatest good for us or is the greatest good for us

01:21:17

Closer to Jesus forever There's no comparison

01:21:22

I know what the greatest good is and I know exactly what I want I want to be with him if it means I got to suffer more here then so be it so That's how

01:21:34

I see it All right No, not nothing at the moment that was the main question and I Thanks.

01:21:47

All right. I'm just gonna cuz you get some kids in the background. I'm gonna turn you down and DL I turned you up if you want to go ahead and ask your question now,

01:21:55

I don't have any questions Okay, what's your name? It's my name

01:22:01

Well, I don't know. I don't feel really comfortable saying it Call you D. So are you a

01:22:07

Roman Catholic? Yeah, but Is there any point in talking about that?

01:22:14

What You're a Roman Catholic, right? Yes. Okay You're to die right now

01:22:22

He sounds very familiar do you wouldn't happen to argue for Jesus being a

01:22:32

Asian would you know? Oh Wait a minute. All right.

01:22:38

Are you Ben? Yeah I don't know why

01:22:47

Same guys last week. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, maybe he came back with notes Why do you think so?

01:22:54

I mean Yeah, same guys last week So, what are we going to move along and have a conversation with some others?

01:23:05

Yes, really So you said I'm the same guy as a guy from last week You certainly sound like it.

01:23:10

What do you think Andrew? It sounds like someone trying to get a little bit of a deeper voice

01:23:16

But the same inflections on certain words. I Agree, and I took no

01:23:23

All right, let's just move along then all right we'll go over to to John I'll put bring

01:23:32

John in and He can only turn him up here. He was down.

01:23:37

You can unmute yourself John. I already have how you guys doing? The right

01:23:44

John buddy, how are you doing man? Exhausted tell me the work of a postal carrier is tough

01:23:51

You're a postal carrier, yeah That's what he does Yeah, and look at why he's a good shaping people

01:24:02

Yeah, but it looks like he probably walks a lot I don't I'm gonna be driving a truck so okay, well, that's good

01:24:11

Anyway, hey I came across the situation where somebody told me

01:24:21

Basically about the whole issue about Calvinism, and how it's related with Double predestination, and I've always thought that that's a straw man

01:24:31

And I mentioned that in one of the groups that I was in on Facebook, and they all said no That's not a straw man, and that's actually accurate so I was wondering was

01:24:41

I missing something there I mean double predestination is is when somebody When God Predestines people to hell is is that the true

01:24:54

Calvinism stance? There are a lot of Calvinists who hold to it, and I lean towards it okay, and I mean,

01:25:04

I have no problem with it, but I'm just just kind of wondering what exactly is the official Calvinistic Position well you can be

01:25:12

Calvinists have different views on things like I'm a Calvinist who believes in a continuation of the gifts not all Calvinists do some

01:25:18

Calvinists are dispensational some are not so you can have what's the official well you know?

01:25:24

We would just say basically that That that there's a very variety of beliefs

01:25:34

Within the reformed theology that would allow people different views but nevertheless

01:25:40

God does say in Proverbs 16 for he makes all things even the wicked for the day of destruction So he that's what he says that implies double predestination right there

01:25:49

Go to Romans 9 22 What if God although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

01:26:00

Well the implication is there to be prepared for destruction, so we do have

01:26:06

Verses for that first Peter 1 or first Peter 2 8 Jesus is a stone of stumbling and a rocket of offense for they stumbled because they are disobedient to the word and to this doom

01:26:16

They were also appointed Now what does it mean? They were appointed beforehand, or does it mean they're appointed because they are

01:26:25

Rejecting God, but it says a stone of stumbling in a rock of offense and to this doom they were appointed so it's a

01:26:35

You know, it's it's a bit of a difficult thing to kind of easily get at least I'd let first I don't use that verse for that very often.

01:26:41

But since we're talking about that's it is another verse that is kind of implied there Mm -hmm

01:26:47

Okay, double predestination. Actually, it is the it is the the the standard

01:26:54

Calvinist stance, but it gets misunderstood. It doesn't mean a lot of times it gets it gets

01:27:01

Conflated with what's called equal ultimacy. So right From our standpoint is just this it is that God has elected a people and by electing of people he has passed over some so so he's predestined those to to salvation and because he's predestined these and passed over those than the others are predestined to damnation that Doesn't mean that equal intimacy would mean that the way that he predestines the elect works in their lives.

01:27:28

The spirit comes in applies Salvation the regeneration this this and that that on the other side of the coin that he actively reprobates the

01:27:38

Non -elect which is not a that's a Heretical stance equal ultimacy is heretical.

01:27:44

So it's just double predestination. It's just that because God Passes over the others

01:27:51

Yes, so it's it's somewhat of a logical Conclusion that people come up to is right because but but the real thing that it's the starting point

01:28:00

For people is that not neutral and not heaven the starting point is because of the sin nature

01:28:06

Their starting point is deserving hell. Yeah, that's the starting point And so the idea that people will have with double predestination is that if God elected some he chose some to be redeemed

01:28:20

Therefore by definition they would say he therefore by not electing some

01:28:26

Elected the others to be damned. That's basically the argument and where it comes into play is people will say, okay, but then you have people who

01:28:38

Will say but God can't tempt and so they they will use that verse typically I've seen to argue against it

01:28:45

I I would not hold in in double predestination in the sense where God Selects some and says, okay, you're gonna be damned and then selects others and says you're going to be elect

01:28:56

They're all damned and he'll he selects some to be elect Amen a lot more sense

01:29:04

Andrew That makes yeah much more sense. So then those two who don't hold to like original sin

01:29:11

They're the ones who really have their their theology really wonky. Oh So when people ask me about this

01:29:21

What I'll do is I'll say well, but God absolutely does actively do is elect people to salvation

01:29:28

Then the question is does he actively? Force people into damnation.

01:29:35

Well, that's the question There's an is there an active work or a passive work of God? He could actively fix it so they can't they aren't saved but by doctrine of total property.

01:29:44

They already are not saved So, how could he forcibly so to speak or actively bring them to that place of not being saved the only

01:29:54

Place in the scripture that I could find that would support that would be Jesus speaking in parables So people will not be saved and it seems to be in Mark 4 10 through 12 where he says that that it there seems to be an active choice there, but then again

01:30:09

What's the context the context is Jesus is speaking with people and since he's God in flesh and people are the

01:30:15

He has the elect whom he's come to say the ones given to him by the Father John 6 37

01:30:20

Well, then if that's the case, then if he were to tell people to be saved who were not elect

01:30:25

They'd have to be saved. So they're not elect. So he speaks in parables so they won't get saved And so do you go?

01:30:31

Okay, how's that work? And so it can get a little complicated and So on Tuesday, I lean towards a real positive

01:30:41

Active double predestination and on Thursday, I lean more towards a passive Double predestination and sometimes on Friday.

01:30:50

I'm trying to decide which one again and it's because the scriptures are Not exactly clear and and how you define things, of course can have an emphasis on which part you're going to take a look at But equal ultimacy deals with the issue of God actually choosing you're going to go to hell

01:31:07

But if you have five people and you only choose two out of the five in a sense

01:31:14

You're choosing the other three not to be with you but but are you it's so It's just not easy it's not an easy discussion.

01:31:25

Well, and I think part of the problem in the discussion is all of us here are

01:31:31

Creatures bound by time we think within time frames and God is not he is Eternal and Therefore he's he's outside of time.

01:31:40

He can work within time He's omniscient. We're not we learn through observation and this is a big thing

01:31:48

Everything that we learn we learn through observation God never learned anything.

01:31:54

He knows everything and there's a huge difference between those two and We cannot comprehend that thinking so what we try to do is in our finite minds that are bound by time

01:32:06

That have to learn things we end up in a position where we're trying to understand an infinite mind

01:32:13

Who's omniscient? I? Tried that once Yeah, I got down the infinite long trail

01:32:23

I got down about three feet and then my brain went But I mean that is that's really where a lot of this comes down we are trying in our finite minds to comprehend the infinite and We can't and we explain it five -year -old

01:32:38

That we bet we try the best we can to explain these things But a lot of times what happens is in the explanation of the terms people then

01:32:49

Draw conclusions from those explanations that may not have initially been there

01:32:54

I mean Calvin never explained double predestination Those were from his followers that that argued for that and it was a logical conclusion.

01:33:03

They came to and understandably But the question is does the scripture support that that well,

01:33:09

I don't think so It supports that he's in control of all things. It supports that you know, he's sovereign but when we talk about it, we often talk about it as if God is observing us and reacting to what he observes or that he is

01:33:28

You know bound by time as if you know in time I do this and then this happens

01:33:34

And so though those things are things we have to think through to realize that that's where a lot of this problem ends up occurring

01:33:40

From right? Yeah, that's one thing. I came across also is if God is omniscient Then he would obviously know who goes to heaven and who goes to hell if that's a true if that's the case then

01:33:53

It was an issue of him knowing who goes to hell because that's implying I'm writing on boxes

01:33:59

Yeah, that implies then that he's looking into the future to see what's going to happen Okay Well, yeah, this goes all the way back to the

01:34:10

This goes all the way back to the to the charge against the Calvinist with the problem of evil, right? So a

01:34:16

Calvinist would make the claim we would make a claim called an asymmetry claim So we would give God all the glory

01:34:21

Good and none of the blame for anything bad and that that's where the charge stems from which

01:34:27

There are a number of different ways to to answer that charge But I think that's where it comes from.

01:34:33

I myself don't have a problem with Holding to a double predestination when it's properly understood and I think that Matt was in the exact right place with the active versus passive There there's a another way to explain it is the causation of God that it's a hyper physical compared to our physical

01:34:52

So it's a it's a problem that or a question that comes up quite often. There's been a lot of ink spilled over it

01:35:00

The other has been it's not an easy one. It's just not an easy one and I don't want to sound like hey

01:35:05

We know I can't solve it. So I'm just gonna make it up and I don't know what I'm talking about No, it's just you get down to these discussions and it can

01:35:14

You know, like I said on Tuesday I'm this way on Thursday on that way and what I mean is You know, you really think through these things you're gonna come up with some variables in them

01:35:23

How deeply you think about particular instances or definitions within it? But just like what he was saying,

01:35:30

I agree the active or passive issue of predestination of the non elect We know that God is actively predestining the elect

01:35:38

Active does he need to actively Unpredestined or reprobate the unbelievers, isn't it need to?

01:35:45

No, no, no, not at all and and it's actually gonna it'll all work back to if you go back far enough to it to the to the claim of You know that that determinism is incompatible with moral responsibility

01:35:57

So that's where it'll end up getting back to because they're like well If God has determined that all these people do

01:36:03

X Y or Z, then there's no way that they can be held morally responsible Which is uh, which is completely wrong, right?

01:36:14

Yeah, I was gonna say Chris, you know, I enjoy your input you you're more educated about this stuff than I thought you were

01:36:22

I mean that in a good way though because it's not used to people nailing these things. So well, so good for you, but I've been in seminary for a little over three years now.

01:36:33

Yeah, which seminary you're going? That's right. I forgot SBTS Southern Baptist Theological. Oh Man, well close

01:36:46

The whole determinism versus indeterminism argument libertarian free will versus a compatibilism

01:36:53

So I've really got a good I've got a good solid base there. Yeah He's now following after Leighton flowers and Probably close to eight years

01:37:15

You know, I do enjoy talking to him

01:37:22

But I want him to see because because this whole this whole deal with libertarian free will this going because they the indeterminist takes libertarian free will and they say that is just necessary for more responsibility when and then when they go to Argue against the compatibilist.

01:37:37

They will say since determinism is incompatible with libertarian free will which it is We'll agree with that.

01:37:43

That means that can compatibilism in a deterministic Framework is wrong

01:37:48

But see they beg the question from outset because that's the question is what type of freedom is necessary for more responsibility and and so they beg the question from the outset and then they they come with charges that include a lot of equivocation and I've Explained all this to to a latent and actually to a few others

01:38:06

Some philosophers some P of something have some PhDs in philosophy and I had some really good talks with them about that But they they just don't want to see it

01:38:14

Even though that the top proponents of libertarian free will admit that it's just assumed right?

01:38:21

It's a it's an intuition All right, it's intuitive and that's what they claim But they claim that since we don't ascribe to that intuition that our system must be wrong

01:38:31

Well, let me ask you this Chris And John 5 19 and 30.

01:38:36

I'll read them to you here in a second She's something Jesus says but I asked people did Jesus have free will and they'll say yes

01:38:43

Okay, what kind and they'll say well libertarian. Okay, great Jesus says truly truly

01:38:49

I say to you the Son of God can do nothing of himself Unless it is something she's a father doing for whatever the father does he sings the son does in like manner

01:38:57

So Jesus could do nothing of himself in verse 30. I can do nothing on my own initiative

01:39:05

Wait a minute if he had libertarian free will he has to be able to do everything on his own initiative So if Jesus has free will and it was libertarian

01:39:14

How then can it also be that he said I can do nothing about my own initiative? Right, that's an actually an argument that uh, you may be on uses in his book

01:39:24

Excusing sinners and blaming God if you haven't read that man, that would be a really good pickup It's probably the best money

01:39:30

I've spent on a book in five years. And what's the name of the book? Called excusing sinners and blaming

01:39:36

God. Oh, I think I've heard of that It's amazing. It really is. Okay See if I've already got it or not

01:39:45

Excusing God, you know, excusing sinners blaming God. Yeah. Yeah, it's a play off of the

01:39:50

Romans the two questions that that Paul Anticipates in Romans, right? Is there righteous?

01:39:55

Is there unrighteousness in God which would be blaming God and then um, and then Well, if I'll do his will then why does he find a fault, right?

01:40:03

So he's excusing sinners. Yeah, I did buy it Kindle It's Really Yeah, I'm gonna oh

01:40:15

I already have been reading through it she's got so many About that thing

01:40:20

Matt's getting old Mmm, look at all this stuff. I've already read through a lot of it.

01:40:25

I got stuff highlighted Matt. What do you have breakfast this morning? Eggs I had scrambled eggs or four of them with two pieces of toast buttered and a glass of water and I sat

01:40:36

Next to the water cooler on the table on the far side left next to the refrigerator And I made a neek two eggs and a waffle

01:40:45

Which I put butter in from her dish that was not contaminated with my butter because of wheat issues

01:40:52

BAM Now ask me what I had for for lunch

01:41:00

What do you have for lunch Matt? Four pieces of pizza which my wife ordered because the guys were here working and she did she got man pizza it had really nice chunks of sausage really nice chunks of sausage with With pepperoni and we had

01:41:16

I had like seven or eight I shouldn't have that many cinnamon roll things and a couple of garlic bread little things with some more water

01:41:27

So, hey Matt check this this is what's just sent to me as someone's gonna send me this

01:41:32

For me you're gonna ship this up to me. What exactly is are we looking at right there?

01:41:39

That's Kittler It killers right here look at this since you got that right there look hold on a sec our place is trash we're moving

01:41:50

There he is. That's Kittler. Oh Look what you did. He's where's Kittler. I don't see him

01:41:58

There we go, I See a mess, I don't see a cat. It's a mess.

01:42:04

All right. There he is right Sam. There he is So so I was just told that that's coming my way

01:42:12

I should be receiving Why is why is he called Kittler because he has a mustache and a hair part like Hitler?

01:42:22

Yeah, and he makes the other cats bow down to me go That's right, that's so true.

01:42:28

Oh, I'm messing this up speaking of pictures and stuff like that Did you see the one of the baptism I did

01:42:33

Saturday? Yeah with them with the other big foot find that I meant

01:42:39

I meant to open the show with that. Where is that? That was fun. It was so stupid right

01:42:48

You got to get that up on screen and share that that was great, okay, so I can find it really fast

01:42:55

I got it right there. Okay, share screen ready. Here we go. Share screen. So so I'll describe this while you put it up there

01:43:06

Okay, so that is from it says believe and it's a picture of Matt slick after he went into the into the water and on a cold three 43 degree water 43 degree water and and if you look at the picture on Matt's face, it looks just like a picture of Bigfoot And My left arm we were goofing around after the baptism.

01:43:27

Oh, it was so cold. It really was My legs stopped working for like an hour we went over to Nathan's house, so we're all eating sandwiches and a whole bit and everything and The guy baptized his girlfriend took that picture and she just goes hey

01:43:43

She didn't know she could she could she was I took it by accident and she showed us and we're we're just howling

01:43:51

Right, she thought it was funny and and then you were there right

01:43:57

Cameron Yeah, we can't hear

01:44:03

Cameron but We can't see him either.

01:44:10

Yeah, so we were We were at Nathan's house and somebody showed me that picture like oh, look at this hilarious picture where Matt's all cold

01:44:18

But she was kind of Embarrassed that it might make mad embarrassed. So she's gonna delete it. I'm like, no they got a picture of Bigfoot Nathan showed to a couple others and after Matt started laughing one of the other guys sitting down there

01:44:31

Did the dual picture with Bigfoot and the believe while we were sitting there? Yeah So Matt drops his microphone.

01:44:44

Yeah, but it was so stinking funny that I read everybody Everybody was belly laughing. It was just one of those stupid fun things, you know

01:44:52

Hey, look at Cameron doing what Matt can't do picking up that box Anyways, I just want to say thanks guys for the the answers and all that and Chris Chris is definitely one of the guys who

01:45:08

I hand -picked For the council at the very beginning. So yeah, he's he is definitely

01:45:15

Someone who I cherish a lot when it comes to these kind of questions Before I go,

01:45:21

I'm gonna let everybody know I'm gonna start the after show What's that? It sounds like Chris is coming more and more to my views on more things before you know it

01:45:30

He's gonna be dispensational if he if he keeps studying Dispensational just go to LDS org

01:45:39

Wow. I That's not even like logically valid, but hey, no, they're dispensational is

01:45:50

All right. I was gonna point out that this is probably the only time where Andrew has actually has more books than Matt That actually and This is that I have way more books

01:46:05

However, Matt will also admit that he has given away a lot of his books over the years

01:46:11

So you mean hardcover books you have more books on Lagos. That really doesn't kind of count.

01:46:17

Well, yeah Lagos I totally have more than you but oh, you'll love this one Matt. This was funny. So we're at a shepherds conference and We're sitting there and Pastor was telling me his his books in Lagos.

01:46:30

And so he was telling me he's he's like, yeah I have like I forget it was like 6 ,000 books in Lagos and I just sat there and looked at him and Guys looked at me and he realized there's something that was up And I go yeah,

01:46:48

I have like 51 ,000 But no

01:46:54

I do I do have more books than Matt it's just that Matt's given a bunch away So you had even seen the stuff in the garage?

01:47:02

I got books in the garage and I have shelves of books in the garage But you haven't seen my basement and I got all my

01:47:10

Kenneth Hagen and Kenneth Copeland if there's a flood like Yeah, those are real books

01:47:17

I'm trying to get rid of His shelf it's all

01:47:22

LDS stuff He's got an entire bookcase just of LDS stuff and it's all from their perspective.

01:47:29

So come on What are you gonna tell me that LDS is better than Kenneth Hagen and Kenneth Copeland?

01:47:35

They're on the same level This is a book I've found recently on the next to the trash can

01:47:56

It's good that he actually found it, you know, actually got a few other shelf over there

01:48:02

By the way, it really doesn't you look worn in That reminds me guys

01:48:08

I get I got a new book out now Let's talk about your new devotional book you have a 30 -day devotional book that just came out this week,

01:48:18

I think right Yeah, you just said it. There you go. Yes Traveling and forgot about it.

01:48:25

So, um We can get that on karma .org. I believe let me go check

01:48:33

Matt should know if we can get it on karma. Where's the store? Let's go to a convert slash 30 and it'll take you down to the page or you go to Amazon and look up.

01:48:43

I think it's on Let me see 30 days Slash 30 if it's there

01:48:52

It's gone through there motion by Matt slick You can order that at karma .org

01:49:02

slash 30 $10 For 10 of them

01:49:09

That's what comes in as defaults, that's so it's a the price is a dollar book. Is that right

01:49:14

Matt? Wow, I don't know can set it up All right. It says get get the new book from karm 30 30 days of devotion for a donation of less than $10

01:49:27

You can edit the quantity, but the default quantity is 10 So it's a dollar book.

01:49:33

Hey, that's pretty good. So get 10 and give them away Better hurry up before it changes.

01:49:41

Yeah So so talk us through that book, what are we gonna learn in that book man?

01:49:48

Devotion stuff. Yeah, I knew that was coming And how many logically sound devotional how long will it take to get through that?

01:49:58

I'll depend how fast you read but probably 30 days if you do one in a day Look at what Cameron is doing.

01:50:04

That is classic for folks who are not able to walk Cameron he moved the box to be right behind Matt's head so that he could pull the tape and Matt can hear it at its loudest.

01:50:17

That is very nice of Cameron. He's he's making sure that That Matt hears the tape

01:50:25

I'm sorry. Yeah, because I have to write on them. We have a little code. Oh, no, it's not for the writing.

01:50:31

He did that He was doing the tape further away before he moved that that box up close so you could hear the full

01:50:42

Sound of that tape they're Going so that's pretty good so It's j -dubs, which one so, uh,

01:50:51

I don't know if any of you guys who are here have any other questions you got about About ten minutes left for the show about eight minutes left.

01:50:58

If anyone has anything if not I have Someone someone's talking but I don't know who that I don't let me see

01:51:15

Yeah train of thought what's it what's your name Hey, my name's mask, it's what my real name ma

01:51:22

SS IMO Massimo Massimo and before before you ask it, let me just give a quick shout -out to Jason Manning who just gave $10 for Cameron to sneak up behind Matt and tape his head

01:51:35

So not happening. Not a good idea There it is someone gave $10 for you to sneak up behind Matt and tape the back of his head.

01:51:44

No not happening Okay, so meso mispronouncing give it to me again

01:51:51

Mastro, okay So, what's your question

01:51:57

I Was I was just gonna ask, you know, I miss this this is kind of related to the other question

01:52:04

But there might be a different answer. So that's why I'm asking why does um doubt like Why does doubt exist and like how would someone be able to handle doubt exist because of our sin so doubt

01:52:23

Like is there any benefit to having doubts? There's like when I look at the Bible, it doesn't seem like there's any

01:52:29

Benefit what we could say There's a benefit to doubt but doubt is because of our sin But then when we doubt we could make a choice to trust

01:52:36

God anyway Even though we might doubt how things might work out. And so we're trusting him above our doubts

01:52:42

So then that could have a that wouldn't be able to to occur unless we were having the actual issue of doubting

01:52:48

And then we could bring glory to him by saying even though I doubt ABC I'm gonna trust you Lord to work through that don't know how it's gonna happen

01:52:55

I have my doubts, but I'm gonna trust you anyway, and so, you know, those kind of things can happen.

01:53:03

I Hear what you're saying. So you're saying that doubt would bring about more More faith because they're it could

01:53:10

I'm just saying in that particular, you know thing maybe that's that's a Way to look at it that it could be a good thing in that sense.

01:53:18

I think it is but you know It's it's a possibility, I mean there's there could be several reasons for doubt

01:53:27

You know doubt could cause you to go and study and research and figure out answers yeah and That would strengthen

01:53:39

Thinking so a good idea, you know So it's the question is what do you do with the doubt?

01:53:45

What do you do? When you have some of the things that you bring up with and the struggles do you? run away or do you embrace them and and Deal with them, you know, and I think you know scripture makes it clear

01:53:58

We should come in reason together. And so that's what we should do We should we shouldn't run away and turn our brain off.

01:54:04

We should Interact with it and ask why are we having these doubts? Most of people at least look for for believers

01:54:13

When it comes to doubt with their salvation, it is most often because of sin

01:54:18

It's most often because there's sin in their life. That is keeping them from wanting to Read God's Word to pray because of that.

01:54:28

They're not Their their doubt is caused because of sin in their life and really what they need to get rid of is the sin

01:54:39

You know and start thinking right? Yeah Yeah, good stuff, man.

01:54:44

So I hope that helps we're gonna we're gonna wrap up tonight and So folks if you've

01:54:50

I hope this has been it's kind of a lot of different things tonight. We've had a couple of trolls in tonight but You know, we got to watch

01:55:01

Cameron work do Matt's job. That's nice. I appreciate that Cameron. That's awesome. Keep up the good work

01:55:06

Yeah, he's like got all your books gone. Yeah, I'm gonna help him here a little bit if my back will let me Yeah, don't be dumb.

01:55:13

Don't don't throw your back out more. So So folks some good sites for you if you're watching this live in the

01:55:21

YouTube chat You see our friend Charlie who puts out like probably about a thousand different links to karm

01:55:29

He's got them all Charlie is like the karm master. I think he knows karm better than Matt himself is getting there

01:55:35

Yeah, he just knows where every article is on karm and could just drop it in there He's dropping in right now some information for folks who want to listen to Matt's like live and you can listen to Matt's like live

01:55:45

Monday through Friday from 6 to 7 Eastern Time You can get the details at karm .org.

01:55:53

You can if you so choose subscribe to the podcast Matt slick live just do a search for Matt slick

01:56:02

It's hosted on Sermon audio and you can just actually get search for Krishna projects research ministry or Matt slick and that will come up You can also subscribe to my podcast

01:56:14

Andrew rap reports rap report. There's two of them. There is a daily Which is

01:56:19

Monday through Friday two minutes long and then there's a weekly that's Usually about an hour long.

01:56:24

We just got another super chat from Jason Manning He says thank you for the show. God bless praise

01:56:30

Jesus. So thank you Jason for that I Would say that for others who want to do super chats,

01:56:36

I think there's a little dollar sign button down at the bottom That's how you do it if you want to donate and that donation goes to karm

01:56:44

That doesn't go to striving for eternity, but some ways you can support both

01:56:49

Matt and I or really our ministries you could support karm at karm .org and Let's hit the donate button

01:56:57

It was be good to donate monthly so that because kind of the bills come in monthly you can go to striving for eternity org slash donate and Donate there that goes right to striving for eternity both karm and striving for eternity are 501c3

01:57:14

Organizations if you want to support us at our patreon You can go to patreon .com

01:57:19

if you look for striving for eternity that will go to striving for eternity But if you would like to support

01:57:25

Matt personally not karm But Matt you can search for Matt slick on patreon and that goes directly to Matt that is not tax -deductible

01:57:35

Because Matt personally is not a 501c3, but if you want to support him you could go there

01:57:43

So next week, I think we don't have anything out of the ordinary next week.

01:57:48

We Trying to set up some debates But some people say they want to debate and then they don't set it up so right we will see

01:57:59

My challenge for people to come in one guy said he could destroy me and in Catholicism. I said good. Come on in and I haven't seen him.

01:58:06

So, you know, we'll see Carmen's what was that?

01:58:12

He said he could destroy me with a tape He terrible. Yeah, he could oh my goodness.

01:58:18

Look at that. It is so strange. Oh Yeah, it's looking naked your office is looking naked