November 22, 2017 Show with Ashley Null on “Reformation Anglicanism: A Vision For Today’s Global Communion”

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This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this day before

Thanksgiving November 22nd 2017.

I'm so delighted to have back on my program Someone who has been one of my most

fascinating guests, especially because the Topic that he has addressed and

will address is something that is not frequently heard discussed on evangelical Christian radio.

The subject is Anglicanism and today we are specifically be we're going to be

addressing a Reformation Anglicanism a Vision for today's global communion, which is also

the title of a book That is in print thanks to our friends at

Crossway and I'm speaking specifically of my guest today.

Dr. Ashley null who has his BD and PhD from Cambridge University is

MDiv and STM from Yale University and he's an Episcopal minister a speaker a scholar an author of

Thomas Cranmer's doctrine of repentance, which is the last

Subject we discussed if not the one before that, but it has been quite a while since we've had dr. No on

he is also the canon theologian for the Diocese of Western, Kansas the theological

advisor for the ACNA Diocese of the Carolinas and the canon

theologian to the Anglican Diocese of Egypt having received Fulbright

Guggenheim National Endowment for the Humanities and German Research Council Awards and as

I said Earlier just a few moments ago.

We are going to be discussing a new book that he contributed to Reformation Anglicanism a

vision for today's global communion and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.

After a long absence, dr. Ashley null.

Thank You Chris, it's a joy to be back.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

ch r is a r n z e n gmail .com and please give us

at least your first name your city and state and Your country of residence if

you live outside of the USA please only remain anonymous if the question involves a

personal and private matter.

And Before we even go into the main theme, which is your book a

reformation Anglicanism I'd like to know something even though you may have said this in one of our previous interviews.

It's been such a long time and we have so many new audience members Listening to iron

sharpens iron radio that there is a very strong likelihood that many people in my audience are

Discovering you for the first time today, but I'd like to hear something about your own upbringing as a child

what kind of a religious upbringing you had if any and How the Lord providentially

drew you to himself and saved you and then also how you became so highly

involved as a reformed Anglican.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that you could.

I.

Grew up.

He put his hand over there.

I just wanted to put my head over there to let him scratch and it was.

It was just a wonderful message about Dr.

No, are you still there?

Yes.

It was just a wonderful message.

Get to know Jesus.

Getting saved.

I wouldn't have had any idea what he was talking about.

To get to know Jesus better.

So tell us more about how you Knew that you were a child of God that you knew

that Jesus Christ was your Savior and what eventually drew you back into?

Episcopalian ism or Anglican ism.

Oh Oh, I see, but it was a Baptist minister though that had some kind of significant.

Oh

Yeah, I was a young boy in the In the late 60s.

I was born in 62.

So I do have some familiarity with the Jesus people.

And you know growing up in the 70s and so on.

So was the type of Anglican ism or or Episcopalian ism that you were raised in

More biblically faithful than you may commonly see today and and and many of our listeners

When they hear the term either Episcopal or Anglican they very often will jump to

One of two conclusions they will either think that you are an Oxford movement Romish type of Anglican or

Episcopalian That could be barely distinguished from a Roman Catholic or they will think that you are

A an apostate or a liberal depending upon who is being told that you are Episcopal

or Anglican.

If somebody is a conservative evangelical they may just think that you are a Person sold out to

the left wing and that you really don't even take seriously the scriptures, but there is that.

That.

But you are a Bible believing Conservative I'm assuming you might use that term.

But you are a historically faithful Anglican as well because I know that you adhere to the 39 articles

and you Uphold Thomas Cranmer as one of your heroes of the Reformation.

Being that you are actually to my knowledge one of the foremost living experts on Thomas

Cranmer.

And I know

that you're too humble to accept my compliment.

But to answer the question that I had what branch of Episcopalian ism were you

raised in?

I know where you are basically theologically now.

What was the the Episcopalian ism or Anglican ism of your youth.

Well,

when

was

it.

And when was it that you realized God had placed a call upon your life to actually be in

Episcopalian or Anglican.

Minister.

Dr. Null.

Are you there?

Yes, I have this incredibly irritating habit of pausing.

I.

You can watch the contortions of my face, but obviously on radio the fear is

although the transatlantic satellite has gone out.

Well, that's one of the reasons why dr. Sinclair Ferguson Rarely does interviews

especially live ones because whenever you even in a casual conversation Are speaking with them.

If you're asking him anything serious It usually takes 30 seconds for him to respond because he likes to.

Very seriously consider his words before he speaks.

But when was it that you had that.

When you realize you had a call to enter into the ministry.

As one

does but

in

the end,

you know

many other ways.

And

I want your

beauty

dawned on

me.

What a privilege I had.

Well some of

our.

Non -episcopalian or non -anglican listeners may be wondering about Some of the

titles and roles that you have.

First of all, what is a canon theologian?

Ha ha ha.

Yeah, you are.

You are serving the role of Thomas Cranmer himself, I guess in some sense as he served

King Henry the eighth.

Thomas Cranmer's is a walls like anyone else

and creature the six.

Not everything in his day

but I do

think.

And

one

thing

that I

failed

to mention in introducing you because it was not on the crossway bio.

Sketch of you, but you are and have been for the last decade at least a professor in

Berlin.

If you could tell us something about that.

Is

there

a

denominational

or religious affiliation to the university.

Did you just combine ya and nine.

Yeah.

Now when someone thinks of Germany, I'm assuming that

Anglicanism isn't the first thing that pops into their head.

It hasn't been the first thing that ever popped in my head.

How did you?

Providentially

wind

up there

when

the role that

you are

serving

being

an

Anglican

and some

of

these

new

developments.

I'm assuming involved Thomas Cranmer because when you wrote Thomas Cranmer's doctrine of repentance.

Weren't there things uncovered about Cranmer that were not previously widely known.

Well more

about that.

Yes, definitely.

But secondly.

And

I

know

that

we have

discussed

this

in

greater

length

in

previous

interviews.

But I think it might be at least in summary form helpful For our listeners to understand

who Thomas Cranmer was.

I know that he was the Archbishop of Canterbury.

He served Under the reign of King Henry the eighth, and of course you will have many

Roman Catholics or non Anglicans mocking the English a

contribution to the Reformation because they will relegate it to the

the lust of a man who merely wanted to get divorced and remarried.

And they will Focus solely typically these these people speaking in ignorance

they will focus solely on King Henry the eighth who even Thomas Cranmer did not view

as a Regenerant person until the time of his death as if I'm remembering correctly.

But if you could tell us something in summary about Thomas Cranmer and his contribution

to the Reformation including the 39 articles of religion.

You've given me a 30 -minute assignment in three minutes.

Well, in fact if you if you could.

If you could if you could start that because I don't want to interrupt you mid -sentence if you could start it when we return from our first

break.

So we're gonna go we're gonna go to our first station break right now.

And if anybody would like to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back with.

Dr. Ashley Null and our discussion on Reformation.

Anglicanism a vision for today's global communion.

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Eastern Time For a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor and welcome back our

guests today.

If you just tuned us in as dr. Ashley null He is an Episcopal minister speaker

scholar author of Thomas Cranmer's doctrine of repentance.

And today we are discussing a new book that he has contributed to Reformation

Anglicanism a vision for today's global communion, which is a book published by Crossway

involving a number of Contributing authors.

If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris arnson at gmail

.com chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if It's about a

personal and private matter.

And dr. Null right before the break I was asking you to give us a summary of who

Thomas Cranmer was because There is a very strong likelihood that many non Anglicans and non

Episcopalians listening Do not know of him and it is a

tragedy That those who love the the Reformation and consider themselves heir of

the heirs of the Reformation Would be ignorant of this great figure.

And one of the reasons dr Null that I asked you to give a summary of him is because I think it is key to

understanding where you are in your Anglican faith and those

who would be Your brethren in a similar understanding of

Not only biblical biblical theology, but Anglican theology because as you would I'm sure readily agree that today

it seems that very few Anglicans and Episcopalians at least comparatively

would mirror Thomas Cranmer in his theology and Interpretations of the

scriptures.

But

going

back to

Cranmer

he was

other

than that

brief period

when he

out

of fear for

his life.

Recanted his Protestant beliefs and and returned to Rome and then Would

later recant his recantation and while being burned alive or before being burned alive requested that

his hand that signed the recantation be burned first.

But he spent most of his time as the Archbishop of Canterbury as a Protestant

correct as a Reformational Christian.

That was a

lot

that was in my view by the way

that I was saying.

You were clear that it wasn't your view.

Right, right, right.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

And there's four parts that we're gonna have to deal with to put Henry appropriately in this context.

But I'll pause after each one if you have a specific question on that part, but there'll still be others coming.

Is that okay?

That's completely fine.

Okay, great.

You have to understand Henry VIII.

You have to understand what was Spiritually happening in England in

the 15th.

What was happening Academically on the continent in the 15th

and 16th century.

Then

you

have

to

understand

Henry's

own

to

enable you

as

if he

was a bit

he

not

only

you

mean

in my

daily

life.

Yeah, yes.

No,

you

could

you

could

continue

the

roses.

How

did

they

begin the

time

though

that

this

is

going

on

in the

politic

moon

humanism

based

out?

We've got

a sure in

the early rhetoric.

Very familiar.

Yeah,

it

doesn't

surprise

me

because

I know

that

he was.

Declared to be defender of the faith in regard to Roman Catholicism.

That is.

He was he was

a no.

I did not

know that

off the top of

my head.

And in fact I want you to pick up right there when we return from our midway break.

Our midway break is typically longer because of Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida's requirements that we

have a 12 -minute break In between our hours, so I hope everyone is patient with us as we go to our midway break

and God willing We'll be returning any moment with our guests.

Dr. Ashley null and Reformation Anglicanism.

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Now we are finally back To our discussion with dr. Ashley null.

And we are discussing a book that he contributed to Titled Reformation Anglicanism a vision for

today's global communion and this is a book that was.

That involves a number of authors.

We have Michael Nasir Ali.

We have John W Yates the third.

We have Michael Jensen we have Ben Quashie and I may be

mispronouncing that name and as far as Dr. Ashley Null's contribution.

He wrote the chapter on the power of unconditional love in the Anglican Reformation.

He wrote the chapter on Sola Gratia, which is salvation by grace

alone.

He wrote the he co -wrote or co -authored the chapter on a manifesto

for Reformation Anglicanism with John W Yates the third.

So if you'd like to join us with a question on this subject our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and before the break as you may recall, dr.

No, we were Talking about or you were talking about a similarity that Henry the eighth had with

Fred McMurray.

They both had three sons.

That's the last.

That's the last thing you said or you didn't say the Fred McMurray part.

But you said that Henry the eighth had three sons and if you want to pick up where we left off there.

15th century English spirituality emphasized the supernatural power of

Henry

become

gave him

permission

to marry

him.

Yes.

I do

remember

you saying

it's

hard to

forget

that

one

I

mentioned

that

his

lands

include.

I

don't

think

you

mentioned

that

yet.

Yeah, and

that yeah, you haven't mentioned that yet until now.

Yeah.

So.

Obviously not.

But do you think he wants to insult Henry and get Henry mad?

He would most likely be fearful of that as well.

Which infuriates Henry and so Henry Henry in 1532 sends a

Cambridge scholar Who like himself is a liberal Catholic and

Erasmus humanist?

Scripture

is

more

size

logic.

Is

that

what

Erasmus

said?

Pursuing godliness.

Pursuing godliness.

Right through persuading

rhetoric, right.

The most important the most.

Cop.

The most popular book on rhetoric in the first half of the 16th century was by Erasmus.

But guess who was the author of the second most popular book on rhetoric would have been Melanchthon.

Melanchthon.

And what Melanchthon ingeniously does is explain

Luther's theology in terms.

He basically

says that sounds like

Luther, right?

Yeah, other than ourselves

our heart.

God is preached free

salvation.

Are they

known

and

enables

love for God do their

neighbor.

When Kramer's in Germany?

He decides that it's not enough just to meditate on the moral

example.

Yes, the faith that that saves.

We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is not alone.

It seems to be that was what was rising up.

Oh, I'm laughing because that's exactly the words the Kramer

Interrupted,

but I

get

people

to

love

God

more

than

in

fact

great

surprise

to

Kramer.

Yes, is this the clean -shaven one the clean -shaven Kramer?

Amen, and we have to go to our final break right now.

It's gonna be very brief and we'll take our as many of our listener questions as we have time to.

And if you want to get in line, I can't promise that we'll have time for your question.

But if you want to get in line, send us an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

God willing with dr. Ashley.

No.

And Reformation Anglicanism.

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Welcome back.

We are now in our final segment of today's interview with dr Ashley know on his book that he

contributed to Reformation Anglicanism and we are going to now read some of

our audience questions.

Our listener questions.

First of all, I don't normally give full names when our listener is right in but since this.

This brother has a church that I would be more than happy to promote.

Pastor Jeffrey C Waddington, he is the pastor of Knox Orthodox

Presbyterian Church in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.

He has a question for you.

He says what about the acts of supremacy and Uniformity are these

biblical?

Three politics.

John Knox had a significant difficulty

with the act of uniformity.

That's

code word

folks

for good humanist.

He knows

that

it's a

change

point

that

was

because

of the way

they were

reclined

at

the

Last

Supper.

I'm assuming.

Yes,

I was a

Cub Scout and a boy Scout.

My father actually was a Cub Scout master.

Okay, did you ever eat with your fingers on a campfire around a campfire?

I think that's the only way we hate.

Is that immoral?

Of course not.

Why not?

Because it's just food.

There's no biblical law against Eating food with your fingers, especially there's no

ceremonial law in the New Testament.

That's Kramer's whole

point of a meal.

You couldn't kneel because

standard

standard on a cultural practice.

Whether you were trying to couch or sit down at a table to

worry, right?

Yes, but wouldn't Knox's problem really be because of the fact that Rome worships the elements and therefore

kneel.

Yes, but

in the

end,

I'm not

sure.

They're treating the silence of Scripture in two different ways one viewing the silence as a prohibition to do

some Thing and the other viewing it as a license or a liberty I should say.

Well, thank you.

Well, thank you pastor.

Jeff Waddington.

You have received a free copy of Reformation Anglicanism a.

Vision for today's global communion and this is volume 1 in the Reformation Anglicanism.

Essential library.

This book is a hardback retailing for $35 so make sure we have your full mailing address

and we also want to thank the folks at Crossway for providing these free books and Also CV bbs .com

for shipping them out to our listeners who win them.

We also have Zachary in Rippon, California.

And I think I believe I'm pronouncing that correctly, but I may be wrong on that but Zachary says

In the recent work of dr. W Bradford little John the case is made that Richard Hooker

Undoubtedly falls within the broader reform tradition in your view.

Dr.

To what degree do Cramner and Hooker align in their views regarding the main tenets

of the Reformation?

That's interesting because I remember an Anglican minister years ago complaining that I was over

Calvinizing Anglicanism and he was trying to appeal to Hooker as being more in a

line with a Via media position between Roman Protestantism.

But anyway, if you could if you could Respond to our friend Zachary in Rippon, California.

Hesitating

to

render

him concise with

appropriate first

of

all

reason

Lawrence

Kirby

has told mystic in

a plate

to this but that's actually the philosophy.

Yeah, typically humans.

That would be the typical thought.

Hooker

what he

means

by

so

that

week.

Not

sure.

Well,

thank

you

so

much Zachary.

You have also won a free copy of Reformation Anglicanism and since you were first time Questioner,

you're also receiving a free New American Standard Bible.

We have Danny and Kirkwood, Missouri.

Who says one area that has caused great fractures throughout the Anglican Communion concerns sexual

ethics.

However, many of my Roman Catholic friends argue that the 1930 -lambeth conference which ruled in

favor of the permissibility of Contraception and resulted in the Anglican Communion breaking away

from a common consensus shared among both the Roman Catholic Church and most Protestant denominations

concerning the impermissibility of contraception sowed the seeds of this chaos

by separating the unitive and Procreative ends of the conjugal act.

Can you speak to this charge in three minutes?

We're gonna be running out of time very shortly.

Anglicans or so -called white consensus on this moral

issue.

Well, thank you.

You've also won a free copy of the book and also a free New American Standard Bible.

Since you are a first -time questioner we have Melinda in Peekskill, New

York who says In what specific ways do you think the Anglican

Church today is in conflict with its?

Reformation roots and that will be our only.

That's the only question that we have time for today.

And

I really

can't

answer

that

because

it

all

depends which

area

I mean, well.

I want to thank you so much for being on our program today.

Rod McEwan I mean Ashley, I don't know if you've ever heard that before.

Your voice sounds a lot like Rod McEwan, but I want to.

Yeah, well, I actually always liked the sound of Rod McEwan's voice.

I want to thank Melinda.

Also, you've won a free copy of the book Reformation Anglicanism and you're also getting a free New American Standard Bible.

Do you have any?

Contact information that you care to share with our listeners.

Dr.

No, I would

ask them to deeply pray for me.

Okay, we will do that.

And if you would like to order the book if you haven't haven't won it today You can go to CV BBS

calm CV BBS calm and ask for Reformation Anglicanism a vision for today's global mission.

I hope that you all have a safe and God glorifying Thanksgiving.

I look forward to having dr No back in the very near future because we still have quite a number of listeners whose

questions were not Read and answered because of the lack of time and what you all to always remember for the rest of

your lives that Jesus Christ Is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.