The Doctrine of Decrees (02/16/2003)

Park Meadows Church

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:02

Today, well, first of all, what is the providence of God?

00:18

What is the providence of God? Dennis? Does it work?

00:28

Well, not exactly. David? Move up.

00:39

You're saying that the sovereignty of God is... Move up here. I will. I can't see you back there at all.

00:48

The providence of God is

00:56

God's sovereign control over everything. All right.

01:09

I want some verses looked up. B, take Psalms 37, 31.

01:21

I think that's Proverbs or Psalms. David, Proverbs 16, 9.

01:40

I can't... Go to Jeremiah 10, 23. And Dennis, go to Daniel 4, 35.

02:00

Now, you have to remember we're looking at everything from God's viewpoint. All right.

02:18

B, what is Psalms 37, 31? What does that mean to you?

02:42

All right. Proverbs 16, 9. What does the word but mean there?

03:03

What? It means there are two things happening, not one thing. What are those two things?

03:14

A man can think and his ability to think. Therefore, he must think as he does.

03:25

At the same time, he can think and plan his own future as we all think we can do that.

03:32

We know what we really know we can't. We all act like we think we can. At the same time, all that's going on inside our head.

03:39

The Lord is directing the actual things that happen. All right, hold on to that thought.

03:46

Jeremiah 10, 23. Now, Daniel 4, 35.

04:17

What's that mean to you, Dennis? It means that people in the ark are nothing and nobody...

04:40

All right. Now, still from God's viewpoint.

04:50

Debbie, did you know, did you realize, were you cognizant of the fact that there is no such thing as being late?

05:07

Do you really believe that? Well, I'm glad John doesn't.

05:21

Does he? Do you always remember?

05:39

It's a strange paradox. As David said, we are responsible for what we do.

05:48

But it's all done by God. Now, only God could arrange something like that.

05:58

Now, come some questions. David, I may have asked these before, but if I did, act like I didn't.

06:08

Can God forgive without satisfaction? And explain your answer.

06:15

He has to have his justice satisfied with the payment of sin before he can be forgiven.

06:36

Satisfied means to be gave. Satisfied means to be sent to death and to be paid by his son.

06:45

But therefore, how can he be free from sin? Yes. You'll have to pay attention and think.

07:09

Is a foreknowledge of future events which is not based on the decree, well, possible in God?

07:25

Is a foreknowledge of future events which is not based on the decree possible in God?

07:38

Yes. So you're answering yes or no? No, I want you to think about it.

07:49

Is it possible? Nothing happened in the past without his knowing it and decreeing it.

08:06

John, he has decreed everything. What does decree mean? Kind of like law.

08:21

All right, yes. Yes, they do.

08:59

That's right. That's right.

09:21

Predestination, not foreknowledge. Predestination, predetermination, forewarning.

09:28

Those words are different. In fact,

09:33

I took all these questions from your sermons of the last few weeks.

09:45

Next one. What is the inevitable result of basing

09:52

God's decree on his foreknowledge rather than his foreknowledge on the decree?

10:01

What is the inevitable result of basing God's decree on his foreknowledge?

10:11

David? That sounds pretty good to me.

10:20

You mean

10:30

God does not respond to John? Well, what would it be like if it was the other way?

10:47

Foreknowledge. What is the inevitable result of basing

11:02

God's decree on his foreknowledge? Did you answer that? All right.

11:12

Now, what is the inevitable results of foreknowledge on his decree?

11:36

Just think of foreknowledge as not existing. The only reason that it was put in the

11:41

Bible is for man. Debbie, how does the doctrine of the decrees differ from fatalism?

12:09

All right, let's start there. What is fatalism?

12:32

Dennis, what is fatalism? Well, you can't use the word in defining the word.

12:56

Well, fatality means death. Is that so? I don't know.

13:05

Why is that confusing? I just think up these questions. David, tell us what is fatalism.

13:17

Well, here, fatalism is not a philosophical term.

13:27

The philosophy of fatalism is hate the rock, the rock, whatever it will be, will be.

13:33

But fatalism does not think you have to do anything because God will come out and reward faith and do that.

13:43

They would think that your faith is already determined, therefore there's nothing that you do. Is that not true?

13:51

It's a false philosophy. Not true. And if that were true, then we would walk out in front of them and we would say it won't happen.

14:05

But your question was, where is it? How does the doctrine of decrees differ from fatalism?

14:15

Well, it differs because God is bigger than man's mind.

14:21

In man's mind. To man, if you put forth a proposition that God can free from everything, then one would have to be fatalistic in man's mind.

14:35

However, if you study the scriptures, you see that that's not true because God is bigger than that.

14:40

He is able to both determine every detail of everything that will happen and also allow us to have freedom of thought and freedom of expression and to be responsible for everything that we do.

14:57

And he holds what he says in terms of running out in front of them and we're now outside of them.

15:05

The Lord is our God. So he puts responsibility in your life not to live faithfully.

15:14

So that's the only difference. If God is able to accomplish both of them, we don't understand how. All right.

15:22

Is not everything already decreed? Then you're running in front of the truck was decreed.

15:32

It is. All right.

15:37

How does the doctrine of decrees differ from determinism? Dennis?

15:57

All right. It's a very simple, good answer. If we determine something, that doesn't change

16:05

God, does it? Does the decree of predestination necessarily exclude the possibility of a universal offer of salvation?

16:23

Does the decree of predestination necessarily exclude the possibility of the universal offer of salvation?

16:40

David, you're up. Well, go ahead.

16:52

Does the decree of predestination necessarily exclude the possibility of a universal offer of salvation?

17:29

Well, when we try to answer the question of the universal offer,

17:58

I would say it does exclude that possibility.

18:07

We can say that it excludes the possibility of a universal offer. Now this is from God's viewpoint.

18:14

The word offer, it does not...

18:35

That's what I was after. We know that election confers also...

18:49

That's right. All right. Yes. ...therefore

18:56

universal... Would be what?

19:09

No. But they do. Do you all understand what he was saying?

19:17

Yeah, most people believe that God requires to be excluded due to Him, but God can't afford it.

19:40

Just like I wish everybody was here this morning, but I can readily see why not.

19:47

Now, are the decrees of election and reprobation equally absolute and unconditional or not?

20:03

Are they equally absolute, John?

20:13

Are the decrees of election and reprobation equally absolute and unconditional?

20:34

That's what David's been talking about. That's right.

20:45

Does the decree of election, decrees of election and reprobation equally absolute and unconditional or not?

21:06

Dennis, what do you think? They're equal. He thinks they're equal.

21:13

I'm not sure. Debbie, what do you think?

21:19

What? Me? Back there behind John.

21:41

Kim? Kim? Now, you may find yourself in an awful predicament if you follow the crowd.

21:57

Well, tell us, David. Yes. Both absolute.

22:07

When He chose you for heaven, He did not choose

22:12

X, Y, Z, just as surely as He chose you for heaven.

22:21

He did not choose X, Y, Z. Do you understand?

22:29

Just as sure as I'm going to heaven when it's all over, and I'm in heaven, those in hell, it's just as sure that they're in hell as I am in heaven.

22:47

All right. Now, this election and reprobation, are they alike in being causes from which human action proceeds as effects?

23:06

Debbie? What? All right.

23:14

Gladly. Are they, meaning this election and reprobation, are they alike in being causes from which human action proceeds as effects?

23:40

Let us help her out. All right. Well? If I'm understanding, it sounds like we are the people.

23:56

No, you did not. All right. Is the decree of election and reprobation, you know what reprobation is, are they alike, are they the same alike, being causes from which human actions proceed?

24:22

Not knowing for sure. Right? I can't see you.

24:34

All right. Dennis? That's the question.

24:58

All right.

25:11

Kim? All right.

25:36

David? What is effect?

26:07

David? All right.

26:14

Dennis? Can I do something that is a cause?

26:35

All right. Everything I do is an effect. Whether I think it's...

26:52

All right. But really, that's an effect. Just write it down someplace where you can see it.

27:02

All I do is effects. Now, what does that mean,

27:10

David? All right. All right.

27:15

But how is the doctrine of predestination related to the doctrine of divine sovereignty?

27:25

John? How is the doctrine of predestination related to...

27:50

All right. How is it related to the doctrine of total depravity, which belongs to man?

28:04

Dennis? How is it related to the total depravity of man?

28:34

All right. John, you want to say something? Your hands fly up when you think.

28:47

How is the doctrine of predestination related to the doctrine of total depravity,

28:58

David? All right.

29:23

All right. How is this doctrine of predestination related to the doctrine of atonement?

29:55

David? David? So it is related.

30:20

That's what I was looking for, the method. You know, it's nice to be saved, but it's just as nice to do it his way.

30:30

In fact, that's the only way, is his way. He did not leave it up to man to decide anything.

30:37

All right. How is the doctrine of predestination related to the perseverance of saints?

30:50

Kim? How is the doctrine of predestination related to the doctrine of perseverance of saints?

31:35

Debbie, how is it related to the doctrine of perseverance of saints? I can't understand that.

32:01

It was predestination. All right. Lee? All right.

32:26

David? You all have passed 100 percent, and I dare say that there are thousands of seminary students, theologians, professors, that could not answer these questions.

33:19

I'm so proud of you because you think, and that's what

33:24

I want. I want you to think. Well, we've got a few minutes.

33:36

Rather than opening the seventh chapter of Acts, can you think of another question,

33:44

David? Or do you want to elaborate on any of these? They would struggle with the question, does

34:15

God think? Does God make decisions?

34:24

Does God react? All of the simple things.

34:31

They'd stumble. All right.

34:42

Dennis, have you learned anything? All right.

35:16

I get it. I get it from my father. The way

35:35

I struggle with it, but then you ask that question.

36:11

Now I ask that question to myself all the time. You ask that question, why do you think? Yes. That's the big question.

36:26

Why? Well, when you get to heaven, you can answer the question, how many were called?

36:49

Because that's all that'll be there. I've thought a lot this week about my life, what it has meant, what it has not meant.

37:04

I've come to the decision that I couldn't change any of it, even if I wanted to.

37:16

All right, this has been a different class, but I think it's good that we take time to touch on some of these things.

37:31

Anything from anybody? Dennis dismisses, please.