TiL- Reformed Covenant Theology part 5

The Covenant of Works, Covenant of Redemption, and the Place of Covenant Theology

Welcome to the truth in love podcast. Thank you again for joining us. We are on part 5 also known as chapter 5 of Reform covenant theology by Harrison Perkins. Stick with us and We'll start the show.

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How you doing, Dan? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm doing good. Sorry for that I got stumbled there at the end because it's inevitable when you make changes. Something goes crazy the it's not streaming to it.

So there was a notification popped up. I was trying to see what it was saying. And so it stumbled me up a little bit. That's okay. Thank you for watching the truth along the way do what Elon Musk messing with us.

Well, I think when we have to postpone when things happen and we postpone. And we ask it to change days or times. We mess with it too much. Mess with a good thing. Oh, it's like feeding your mogwai after midnight.

I got you exactly and then you get gremlins. Yep, you never want to do that. Yeah, the comment line is open as always whether you're watching now, we'd love to hear from you. Tell us. Hello. Ask us a question try to answer that question if we can pray for you.

Let us know if you're watching later. The same thing still applies. Let us know that you're watching. Share. If you're so inclined, but we're grateful that you're with us Along this journey as we minister together for God's kingdom tonight, like I said we are going to be looking at chapter 5 in Reformed Covenant theology by Harrison Perkins and To open up I told them that I wanted to share a little bit of my thoughts going into this chapter.

This chapter was a little bit tougher for me than chapter 4. Chapter 4 was. To me such a delight and a joy to read after 5 was. Yes, it was. It was a joy to read. However It it was a little bit deeper.

It covered things that technical it was technical really really technical. Deeper it introduced some things that I wasn't familiar with so it was a little bit tougher to read for me. But it was it's still a good chapter and I'm looking forward to hearing hearing your thoughts on it.

Two things that I wanted to say first thing. That popped in my mind and of course, I'd love to hear your feedback. Which is why I'm posed these things to you. The first one is the covenant of works when it comes to Adam and I think I don't know if it's just me or If I can represent the majority or at least some people that have lived on this planet when you think of the covenant of works or You oftentimes hear think about the the warning that we often give we're not saved by works.

We're not we don't try to work to earn God's favor or to please God, you know, that was accomplished on the cross. It was accomplished with our Savior. So that's one of the things that comes to our mind when we think about the covenant of works however, as I was reflecting meditating contemplating on this covenant of works and And its relationship with Adam and God I was thinking.

You know, he wasn't trying to to earn anything. What he was trying to do was Accomplish something he was he was building a house. So to speak he had his God had given him his commands. This is what I want you to do.

Adam and he was supposed to do that. So he was trying to accomplish something. He wasn't trying to make up for something. He wasn't trying to work toward To earn something to earn God's favor. He was just trying to his.

His deal was that he was to accomplish the things God had told him to do. Does that make sense? Yeah, it was a.

Faithfulness. Mm-hmm. It was just here. I've set you up with everything that you need for success keep on doing what you're doing and we're not gonna have any problems. Yeah, and We didn't. Until yeah, right.

So I'm only to the third chapter of the book.

Well, I took a hard left turn hard left turn. So, I'm glad I was trying to you feel like I was tracking in the right direction with that thought. The the other thought I had specifically with this chapter going into it is um We're talking about the in this chapter he talks about the covenant of redemption.

Mm-hmm, and I Feel like that he brings he brings out scripture and he talks about scripture To support his view. But as far as somebody That's reading this coming in from the outside because I'm I'm kind of coming in Reading this from the outside.

He is a Presbyterian. I know that there was some Baptists who read this reviewed this and gave Good reviews about this book which which I'm agreeing with all the way so far. Still coming at it from the outside because I'm not a Presbyterian.

But somebody coming in from the outside reading this How would you answer? Or or how would you encourage someone who's reading it? With those lenses that He is is not just merely trying to Make an argument to make his covenant theology It What he's calling the covenant of redemption.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? He he's tried to Make it it and that might be the critique Of somebody who does a whole covenant theology.

Yeah, I could see where somebody would think that. What what he's trying to do is he's trying to take a very deep complex Subject and That it's not drawn from just one text of Scripture he's trying to take that idea.

Put it together and say this is what I'm saying and this is why I'm saying it and here's a scripture behind it. So in order to do that, he says well, this is how it's it's been. Just see he's basically saying just so you know, I'm not out in left field that other people have thought this.

I'm not just making it up off the top of my head. Here's how it's been historically formulated. So the Westminster device put it this way other people put it this way. This is the idea that we're getting forward.

Here's a scripture where we pulled that from it. For some people they'd like to see it argued the opposite direction here's the scripture and then here's what we said, but I think sometimes when you have something as complicated or is not necessarily complicated, but Yeah, it's complex but when you're talking about about things.

That is basically the inner workings of the Trinity. Mm-hmm. Um you gotta You gotta be careful and tread lightly, you know, you've got a and so in order to do that. Historically there has been. In more liturgical churches, there's there's a Sunday where they preach on the Trinity.

Some of the some of the the pastors that do it will take that week off. Let their associate pastors preach and other ones call it heresy Sunday. Because because no matter what happens you're probably gonna say something wrong that's heretical.

Yeah, because You have to dot all your T's and cross all your eyes except you don't do that. You dot your eyes across your teeth so. So what he's trying to do is he's trying to tread lightly and carefully by using language.

That's been tried true and tested and then going back and showing you okay now that I've laid out. What we're aiming for this is why we're aiming in that direction is because the scriptures told us here here and here.

That God has gotten together amongst persons planned out what? God's going to do for Redemption and then here's how he accomplished it and we're calling this the covenant of redemption.

Covenant Theology, Theology Proper, and the Faithfulness of God

Yeah, one of the things that I appreciate about what he did his approach to this chapter is he doesn't he doesn't just say Here's the covenant of redemption and here's the definition. What he does is he he tries to not just define it but explain it and also he brings up Here's here's a conundrum.

Maybe maybe even if you are in in his I Don't want to say faith but his Tradition his tradition. Good word. Even if you're in his tradition or if you're coming from another tradition, you may have these thoughts.

Well, well, how do you how do you explain this? Because this is going to be a conundrum when you're trying to believe in or formulate covenant theology out of scripture and Covenant of redemption. How do you explain this conundrum?

And he he he spends a good a bit of time explaining that conundrum. Which I which I appreciate. You want you want to be to answer your critics? You want to be able to answer questions and be able to explain?

And that was one of the things I I really never had thought of. Until I read this. I didn't know there was this conundrum to answer really in its relationship to Covenant theology reform covenant theology and covenant of redemption.

So it was good to be exposed to that and and dive into it with him. Even though I still doesn't I definitely do not understand it as completely as he does or probably you do so. Looking forward to the conversation tonight.

You kind of wanted us to.

Sorry about that. My phone is connected to my computer because I got Apple products and so I got a spam call from things somewhere in North Carolina, of course and. And so when it rings on my phone and my phone is close to my computer rings on my computer, so maybe I will just Use this airplane mode thing right here and we won't have that problem.

Everybody everybody that I want to talk to is here at the house.

That's right. Well, I had you Robert, of course. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad you didn't leave me out. Yeah.

Especially on Something like the Covenant of Redemption. What you're doing is you're it it make. I think it makes sense. I think there's a scriptural basis for it, but there is there is a there is a sense a Aspect of it where what you're doing is you're peering into.

The inner workings of the mind of God and that's something where. No. His ways are higher than our ways his thoughts are higher than our thoughts why he did stuff even if he explained it to us, we probably wouldn't be able to understand it fully and completely and so because of that.

Because we are No looking at things that are that are absolutely beyond us my question is What place or how important or in what way should we utilize. Or out to what extent should we utilize? Covenant theology.

So obviously Baptists have one type of covenant theology. Presbyterians have another there's new covenant theology and there's all sorts of little variations in between but. Of all those things, you know, what place does it take in the the pecking order of our theology.

Is this an overarching hermeneutic that we use to interpret everything in Scripture? Is this just something that comes along and informs us about a certain aspect of God even though you know. It's throughout the whole of Scripture.

No, what? What exactly? What place do we give to covenant theology in the grand scheme of things. Because obviously we believe it's important enough to have a book and talk about it. We think we find it in Scripture.

So it's important because we believe God's revealed these things to us. But what is the position? What place should it take in? Our theology now is a question I wanted to ask you and get your thoughts on and then I'd kind of give some thoughts on it myself.

Then we'll go we'll get into. That way I can delay myself long enough to where I can talk about the Trinity just a little bit and maybe not commit heresy myself.

Covenant Theology as a Hermeneutic and as a Window into Theology Proper

Yeah, we would like you said that's hard not to do because we Totally, we don't understand the inner workings of the Trinity totally and so you have to tiptoe carefully tread lightly when describing the Trinity.

I have from my understanding you. How you approach scripture? It's it's a it's a means. Is one means of interpreting Scripture? I'm understanding how God is is working and dealing with this creation and.

To the two of the biggest ways. You mentioned the there are different forms of covenant theology. But in opposition to that you have the dispensational view and and so how you. Whichever one you hold is going to affect how you interpret Scripture how now you see God dealing with his creation and so In it inevitably.

By doing that it's going to it's going to affect how you you view certain doctrines certain theologies. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I think it's I think it's a it's a pretty big deal. Some people you know, and and I would be I would lean more towards this direction just because I'm I'm not as like I'm not a studious but yet The I feel like the Spirit gives me just like he gives everybody else a desire to know him more.

So therefore I want to know about this to the best of my ability to to the greatest extent of that my brain Has capacity to understand it. But you know, you have that mindset. Well, I just want to read the Bible and get its application.

But but following that desire From the Spirit to know God more you're inevitably going to get into things and you may not understand the the terminology. You know, we we use we use this terminology like covenant theology reform covenant theology.

Dispensationalism and all these different terms for different doctrines and different parts of theology. They all have technical terms in their complex and so not everybody especially as a pastor you have to keep that in mind when you are preaching you have a wide array of levels of depth in study in theology.

So you have to keep that in mind. And and some people may want to stay where it's it's easier to comprehend and of course in my nature my Former nature wants to pull me back towards that and just be lazy and and not dig into it and Not do the hard digging the hard study.

And just say let's just read it for what it is, but as you learn and grow and you get into these things. You begin to see how important Using these terms are knowing what these terms are knowing what these different theologies are because it helps explain Who God is and how he is working and dealing with his creation?

And It has effects on us practically as well. You think about? Just like one of the things that's that's huge right now in some circles is eschatology. Eschatology definitely has an effect on how we live practically.

And so how we view How God is working with his people is going to affect how we live out that understanding. So that's kind of my initial thoughts on why it's important this To study this to dig a little bit deeper.

To have some kind of a grasp on on where you stand whether it be dispensational Of theology covenant theology reform covenant theology new covenant theology Presbyterian covenant theology. You know, we can get deeper and deeper into those things, but we want to know how God Is working with his creation because it doesn't affect us practically how we live that out.

Yeah, so I was I was thinking a little differently. Not that I disagree with anything that you said, but I was just thinking a little differently as as to what I meant by By important or what place should it have?

Okay. It was probably the way I asked the question because I don't know if I've kind of kind of put it out I was just thinking that. Maybe what what should be our central I'm gonna say them and explain it.

What should be our central theological motif or other words? What should be? Central in our theology and maybe what should be what should be what should be cast in the lead role and What should be cast in a supporting role?

And then what does that mean? For us so. For instance you see things like like Luke 2427 where Jesus is on the road to Emmaus. He's talking to the folks. They don't know who he is and he said He started with with Moses and the prophets and he talked about the whole Old Testament.

About how all of those things were about him. Um, you look at John 114 where it says that if you knew me you would know the father. You look at first John the fifth chapter where it talks about us if we if we know or one of the What are the reasons why?

We if we know Christ then we are knowing God that was part of the purpose of us knowing Christ. So Does covenant theology take that primary role or is it a secondary to some other doctrine which I would say maybe um Theology proper and Christology pneumatology, you know, basically a theology of the full orb Trinity especially our our Christ and then maybe covenant theology shouldn't be as central as.

As well some people have made it now it doesn't mean it's not going to inform just about everything that you read because No, it's it's throughout the scripture God deals with his people on the basis of covenant.

But what does that mean since God being? Perfect holy righteous triune. No immutable all of the the great incredible wonderful things that God is. Then what does covenant theology mean to us? And I think what we gain from covenant theology then Isn't so much a hermeneutic But an incredible Amount of assurance in the faithfulness of God to us.

Because what we see is God making and keeping promises to us from the very beginning of Scripture you know if you Covenant of works if you will Obey me and live With me, you'll be blessed. If not, don't eat your surely die.

But even then he makes the promise and I'm going to crush the or the sea. The woman's gonna crush the head of the sea of the servant Abraham. Through you all the nations of the earth will be blessed. He goes on to to to Isaac and Jacob Jacob in chapter 28.

I just found out I'm preaching on this the next Presbytery. So I've been looking through it. I don't know how I'm gonna fit it on the time frame. They gave me but They the same formula given back to Jacob.

Jacob I'm gonna make you like the sands of the sea. He and then Jacob turns around and says or he says I'm going to take you. I'm gonna have you return to your father and Jacob says well if God returns me to my father in peace I'm gonna follow him and then the next few chapters like everything looks like it's gonna fall apart.

He goes to find his wife. He's given another wife. He has to work for 14 years instead of 7 now. He has two wives. What I'm gonna do with two wives and a bunch of bunch of kids I got I don't have any wealth of my own.

How am I gonna go back home? Then he works for for for labor and he changes his wages, you know. He says you change my wages, you know, seven times ten times but in each and every instance and then he the reason why I left in the first place he goes back and he saw and He saw it doesn't hate him anymore.

God was faithful To the covenant they made with his people and we see that happen over and over and over throughout scripture God was God made a covenant. God was faithful. God made a covenant. God was faithful.

So what does that mean when we come into contact with that? Holy God? It means that we knowing Christ know that everything that he has promised us is real and true and sure. The things that he has promised us He will follow through on and that's incredible because even when we are unfaithful even when we were sinful We were still made right with God through Christ based on his promises and not our own actions.

So I Almost think that while it's really great to study covenant theology It's better to place it in a subservient role to knowing our God. Know as a as a second not necessarily second tier of importance, but a second tier below Who God actually is and then this is how we know he's faithful because because covenant theology proves the faithfulness of God throughout history and The faithfulness of God on into the future.

So that's why my mind was going I was thinking through that it was.

Just Interesting to me. Well, I would say that your conclusion brings the two together. Yes, if we look at covenant theology as just a hermeneutic then yes, it's going to be it's you know It's always going to be a secondary issue.

Because we're gonna we're gonna differ on on hermeneutics to it to a degree not in a way that changes, you know, our core fundamental beliefs of the faith, but But when you Bring that thought that that you were talking about that aspect of coming theology to me it brings covenant theology or that aspect of covenant theology to that other level of Helping us understand Theology proper we're understanding who God is because of our understanding of covenant theology.

And you were talking about his faithfulness is He's he's always going to be true to to his word his promises he's going to keep those. It helps us understand, you know Anthropology who man is but also it helps us understand who God is and so when it comes to looking at scripture and we see that God is always going to be faithful.

He's always going to keep his promises. We learned that he's the only one that can do that. We learned that man could never do that man always failed at doing that and and God Always kept and always will keep his promises and to me.

It's it's It's tied into our understanding of his sovereignty. That God has got a sovereign God is in control and This covenant that he makes with himself it which is something we learned in this chapter.

I never put those two things together. He talks about the the plan of salvation. That's that's the terminology that we're familiar with terminology that we use plan of salvation. What in other words? We're talking about the covenant of redemption what he says in this chapter planet salvation is the covenant of redemption and so Only for us to be saved a covenant has to be made By somebody that can keep it and That speaks to the character in nature of who God is that he has the ability to to not only plan it and Fulfill it but to keep it.

So it speaks it speaks to who God is to to a great degree. Which to me. Yes, if we kept it in that hermeneutical hermeneutical area. You know, it would always be more of a secondary issue than theology proper Christology but like I said that aspect of covenant theology helps us to Glean a little bit about who God is.

That's the real purpose of it. Now, here's where it gets a little dangerous if we invert the importance If we invert the importance of say the doctrine of God and covenant theology and instead of covenant theology serving To show us an aspect of God in his character we then look at The doctrine of God To tell us about his covenant and what it means for us.

When you get the cart before the horse, it seems like you you almost could have a you could have a Potential pitfall where you're placing yourself a lot closer to the center of your theology and Could because you're you're you're kind of roping your redemption into the center aspect when your redemption isn't the center of reality God is.

The Covenant of Redemption as a Subordinate but Important Doctrine

Now and that's why I wanted to bring it up. Yeah, I don't have an answer to this one but have have people in the past Put covenant theology or dispensationalism in that place that's Too central To the exclusion of things that are more important.

It's just one of those things to watch out for. Yeah true to Constantly keep the main thing the main thing to trust in our God and who he is.

Got him. Yeah, I hope so.

No, I didn't rip there instead of anyway Instead of making it all about us because if there's one thing that we know through scriptures with we're a bunch of bums. Right, so we don't need to be putting ourselves in the middle.

We can get ourselves in a lot of trouble in that way. But when we allow covenant theology to inform The faithfulness of God it gives a lot more pastoral Comfort to us that the God who exists When he does reach out Toward us to act is going to act.

Faithfully, it's going to act if he's made promises. He's gonna keep them. It's also scary because he's also promised to punish sin. But there you have the two sides of the coin. You have your law and gospel to where the law can either condemn you the law can be.

Something fulfilled in Christ for you where your righteousness is comes from him. Yeah, so, uh, maybe maybe I'm you know, I'm making mountains out of molehills or something but I think it's it's it's kind of it's important to To roll around in your head a little bit just to make sure you got your your.

You don't have the trailer before before the truck. I guess no, I think that's a great warning. I think it's something definitely talk about because you just look around and Look through history. The central motif.

Has been man even even in churches and. And I can reflect on. Goes back to the sinker sensitive model. Just just as one example the episode that we did on a seeker sensitive church model. You know, you would speak to a leader in that church you speak to a Leader or church member in in any church and and I feel like the the words that we would say would be the right words.

You know, we we want to glorify God. We want to be gospel centered but then. To weigh our words with our decisions and how we Model things how we plan things. Is it matching up with our words? Because it seems like a lot of our decisions that we make.

The consequence of those of those decision makings would be that. No, your central motif your central motif is man. It's man-centered. And so this you know, this is a great warning even coming at theology could be Man-centered.

If you if you leave out that aspect that we're talking about of learning who God is and letting God tell us about who he is.

Well, yeah, even if it's not man-centered if you if you place Something other than God in the center of your In your primary center of importance when you when you think about things you you go off the rails even if it's it's close.

You can overemphasize certain things which I think is probably where most Most Real Christians who have some issues that we would point out. That's probably where they go off. They have taken some aspect that is true and it's somehow at least in practice kind of cornered out.

Or at least I don't know. It's kind of taken Focus away from where where it should have so I mean, I don't know what that would look like. So you may be in a in overthinking I don't know infant baptism or something.

Not that I'm changing my position on infant baptism I'm just saying you know, maybe you you overemphasize it to a point where you you start making some wild claims or maybe you under-emphasize The Sacraments because you think that it doesn't matter as much or I don't know I mean it could it could go a whole bunch of different ways and it looks different for for different errors, but it's just it's just What what Christ has made central is? himself.

So I think we should we should strive and everything that we do to make him central as well, right? Totally agree now.

24 Minutes left we get to describe the Trinity and what the Trinity thought. When I wasn't there, so no chance of getting in trouble on this one. I.

Do want to say this look at one of the things that I highlighted Before we jump into the Trinity. This was this was I Feel like I'm tracking in the right direction because something he says here is is Very close to how I was thinking about Governor works about about Christ earlier On on page 102.

This is what he says the covenant of redemption Being a covenant of works for Christ, but a covenant of grace For us explains how Christ will fill the covenant of works for believers rescued in the covenant of grace, so You know me digging more into the covenant of grace covenant of works covenant of redemption and trying to figure all this out understand it in my own mind and I Can see now how the covenant of works in its relationship with Adam, you know Ended ended with Adam, you know That was kind of coming to works was this that's that was the sphere of the works was in with was with an Adam And so that the covenant of works is not not necessarily With Israel trying to earn their salvation through the law covenant of works ended because That was his deal.

He was trying to accomplish something.

It it did end and it didn't. Because Mankind believing and trusting in God without sin is Is Righteousness, it's because you've been they've been given righteousness in creation and then you Have faith to trust in God that if you follow him and don't eat from this tree You're going to gain a reward from it.

That's that's a. That's the covenant of works it never really went away. It's just that we all have sin. Right, and that's what I think he's getting at is that with the second Adam He accomplishes that covenant of works, but then the benefits that come that he secured We can't gain by works.

So he has to give them to us on the basis of grace. Right, and the grace that he gives us is to have faith in him and he washes away our sins. Yeah, no causes us to be everything that we weren't in the garden.

Right, and that's kind of where I was going with it in my mind. Yeah, I don't know that I even was thinking about Adam. I will my relationship with covenant works in my mind. I was thinking about Israel and the law and that it ended At the cross and now we have the covenant of grace.

You had the covenant works and you have to come to grace. But him so with me trying to piece all this together. I would. What I was singing scripture was. The covenant works and coming to grace kind of run a parallel line and this is kind of affirmation to a degree with that line of thinking because the second Adam Jesus like you were talking about.

He what he didn't have to earn anything. He wasn't trying to make up for anything that he had done. Um. He was. His mission was to accomplish something just like Adam was to accomplish.

He did have to make up for something, but it wasn't his deficiencies. It was ours, right? That's right.

Yeah, and so his mission was to accomplish that.

Accomplished that mission kind of what it was saying. I forget where I said that he he might it was it was fitting that. How they put it is fitting. The son of glory would be made perfect through suffering.

We've been made perfect. He is perfect. Mm-hmm. But what was he being made perfect? He was accomplishing our Active the act of obedience that would be given to us. Yeah, because we we don't we can't have that we don't have a righteous standing before God.

We have to be given that righteous standing before God and that's something that Christ came to the earth as as God and man to accomplish for us to to to grab for us so that he could graciously give it to us and that we could we could receive by faith, which is incredible because you know Faith and he gives us that too.

It's really the grace of God is that we would believe and trust in him when we don't want to.

And so in my mind that covenant of works has ran this this line throughout or continuously and then full, you know. We'll build in Christ and continues in Christ, but also even though it's accomplished its out workings are still being.

Here's the thing the way that we see the covenant of works actually laid out and spoken to us in In scripture is is when we hear things like like this. Um I'm gonna get that guy. I don't. If y 'all are listening about audio, there's a fly I'm gonna get him.

But the one who who the one who says you have to be circumcised needs to keep the whole law. One is going to be justified by works needs to Needs to do so completely the one who You know if you don't follow me you're going to be punished as he told the the ones in in the Old Covenant those things where you see the law and how the law is held over us as Something that points to us and says you were imperfect and you deserve death.

That right there the law to us is the reminder that we have broken that covenant with God in the garden because We can't go back and unbreak the covenant. We can't unring the bell We can't on you can't take the toothpaste put it back in the tube.

We can't do anything like that. We can't undo this sin. We can't uneat the fruit so each time we run across the law and the law shows us it shows us that we are sinners that we Have done something wrong.

It is a reminder to us that that covenant of works has been broken and that Somehow else if we're going to find redemption at all It's can't come from us doing anything because we have already that ship has sailed for us.

Yeah however Christ did keep the law. He did accomplish the rice righteousness. So we gave away so because he's done that We can have righteousness and that's what they're the Trinity was planning out amongst themselves in eternity past.

Was we're gonna do with these guys, you know, not because it was a surprise to him. Yeah, well because I don't know why I was trying to say because but God glorified himself it pleased him to Be the lamb that was slain before the foundations of the earth to choose a people to be You know brought together and purified in himself Adopted his sons it pleased him to do all these things I'd like to say I know why but I don't I don't know his ways or why he did it.

Yeah.

Other than What you said which comes from Scripture, you know to things that it pleased him it glorifies him. Yeah. Yeah. The flip side of that coin is the the covenant of grace which I said Didn't just start at at the cross but it has pair is parallel the covenant works and has run continuously from the beginning and Harrison Perkins even touches on that towards the end of this chapter that he's trying to answer the question Well, how can Christ fulfilling this mission this outward mission?

Be effectual for Old Testament believers and he goes on to explain that because it's the covenant of redemption. It's the covenant grace even.

The the covenant of grace is simply the covenant of redemption announced To sinners who are in need of grace. Yeah.

The Trinity, Inseparable Operations, and the Covenant of Redemption

So dive into the Trinity. I know that's where you wanted to go now. You saved me a whole nother.

15 minutes worth of Having to hear about it at Presbytery, so. So we're we're good, but the Trinity. Very basics the Trinity is the doctrine that God one God. Eternally exists as three persons. Those persons are the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.