Jesse Lee Peterson VS Jeff Durbin (Kind of)

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That was how you'd come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with. That's me.

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I am not an African American. You're Oreo cookie. White on the inside and black on the outside.

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I don't have an Afro, I have an Amerifro. Talking that idiotic stuff you talk about,

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I will slap you. Go ahead, make my day. Black as the ace of spades, but 100, 100 %

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American. Heard around the world by everybody and their mama.

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The Jesse Lee Peterson Radio Show. Uniting the racist with truth instead of dividing them with lies.

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We're also rebuilding the family by rebuilding the man. I'm Jesse Lee Peterson. Welcome to the third hour of the show today.

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It's Manhood Hour. It is Wednesday. Manhood Hour.

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Manhood Hour. Rebuilding the family by rebuilding the man.

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And you can get involved by calling 888 -775 -3773.

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888 -77 -Jesse. Andre, could you come in and adjust this mic from the front of his face and stuff?

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I have an in -studio guest. He's been with me on radio before, but by telephone.

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I have with me Jeff Durbin. He is the pastor of Apologia Church in Tempe, Arizona.

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He's a pro -life activist, public debater, radio host, and world champion martial artist.

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His website is inabortionnow .com. Thank you for coming in, man.

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Thanks for having me, Jesse. It's good to meet you in person. Yes, it's a pleasure. You're a young man. Yeah, do

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I look young? Yeah, you do. How old do you think I look? Oh, man, I hate it when people ask me that. I'm now scared to go older than 30 -something.

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So I'll say about 30 -something. 39. I just had my 39th birthday. Right on. When I shave my beard off,

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I look like a child. And when was your birthday? End of February.

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Really? Turned 39. My kids always remind me. Happy to be late at birthday. Thank you. I pushed it 40.

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You're on a media campaign to fight abortion. Is that right? Yeah, that's one aspect of what we're doing.

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So exactly what are you doing? I know you're doing media stuff. Are you holding any rallies or anything like that?

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Well, we are trying to communicate the truth about abortion into this culture of death that we live in with the gospel at the center of it.

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We're doing it through our radio program. We're doing it through our television program, which airs three times a week on the

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NRB network. We also have a late -night talk show that we're beginning in about three weeks here. It's called

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Next Week with Jeff Durbin. And so the core of that show is End Abortion Now and communicating the truth about abortion in that area.

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We're also flooding the Internet with the content that we get from going to do ministry outside of the abortion mills. So this week we dropped one, over 100 ,000 views in about 24 hours, that essentially exposes what takes place at an abortion mill.

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It's not the political talking points you see on CNN or MSNBC. It is real, raw, uncut.

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It is the truth about abortion. You see women going in saying, I know that it's murder.

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I know that it's a child, but I ought to be able to murder my child. Amazing, yeah. That's the real face of abortion is people say, yeah,

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I know it's a child, and I should be able to kill it. So what kind of things happen in the abortion building, room, or whatever you call it, in the mill?

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Yeah, so if you take one quote -unquote provider, Planned Parenthood, the largest one, they have about 1 ,000 abortions a day that they do nationwide.

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That's amazing. Yeah, you have chemical abortion. That's via pill. So women will walk out of the abortion mill with a pill in a brown paper bag, and they kill their child via the pill.

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Or there's surgical dismemberment, and that is typically what takes place on surgical abortion days at Planned Parenthoods across the country where they go in, and they tear the arms and legs and heads off of little boys and girls.

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They disembowel them, and the really brutal aspect of that, not just tearing them apart, is that once they pull their bodies out piece by piece, they have to piece them back together on a tray again like a puzzle to make sure they haven't left any pieces inside the mother, which would cause infection.

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That's amazing. Yeah, it's a brutal process. Do you know how many abortions are performed each year now in this country?

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Well, there's over 3 ,000 abortions a day, so that's a 9 -11 every day.

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That's amazing. It is. It's somewhere around over a million abortions a year take place in the

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United States. Why do you think abortions happen?

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Why are majority abortions happening? For what reason? Well, I think that I would want to go to the fundamental, the bottom level.

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I think that the Bible says that we're all sinners, and we all are made in the image of God, but we rebel against God.

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We don't want him. We don't want him in his ways. We want to live our own lives and be a law unto ourselves, and so when it comes to abortion, there's a host of reasons.

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People say, I'm not ready for a child yet. I'm too young. I don't have enough money.

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I can't provide. Women use it. I need to get my education, career, and all kind of crap.

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Well, it's a long time ago. Justin, I'm sure you're familiar with this. People used to sacrifice their children to Moloch.

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They used to take their child, and not just to Moloch. I mean, in pagan societies around the world, people would take their child, and they would offer it as a sacrifice to the gods to get a better crop, to have rain, those sorts of things.

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So what's interesting is in history, we mock these people, these pagans, for taking their children and throwing them to the crocodiles for a better harvest, but we do the same thing.

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We sacrifice our children and present them on the altar for what? For comfort? For happiness? Yeah. For an education?

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That's a good point. Yeah. It's just teased a little bit. If men were men, would abortions be happening in the numbers that they are today?

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I don't believe so. Yeah. No. And what is a man? Well, a man is the pinnacle of God's creation in terms of when he creates.

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Over the creation week, on the sixth day, he creates man in the imago dei, in the image of God, to be his representative in the world, to be his light into the world.

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He is a reflection of God, in a sense, in the sense of spraying out the light of God into the world, but also the woman is created to be his helpmate, and in the image of God, he created them.

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They make this perfect, harmonious image of God together. But the man is to be the provider, the protector.

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The man is supposed to be – well, let's put it this way.

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Man was the pinnacle representative of God's creation and the jewel of his creation, humanity.

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And man is the representative. So this is interesting, Jesse, is that in the Bible, when the fall takes place and our plunge into depravity begins, in Scriptures it says that it is because of Adam's sin.

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It doesn't point to the woman. She was deceived, according to 2 Corinthians 11. But Adam fell with a high hand, and when he fell, because he was the representative of God's creation, all of creation falls with him.

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So there's a lot that's supposed to take place with man in terms of representing God. Is there anything in the

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Bible where it says that you should not have an abortion? Yes. And where? And what does it say?

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Well, there's a number of places you can go to. I would say the first place I would go to is Exodus – well, I would go to the

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Ten Commandments. You shall not kill. And the word kill there in the Hebrew is ratzak.

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And the semantic domain of the word ratzak is murder. So the specific law against killing is against murder, unjustified taking of human life.

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And we know from the Bible that's Psalm 139. He knits us together in our mother's womb.

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We are made in the image of God, fearfully and wonderfully made. From conception, in the womb, God knits us together there.

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So we're human from the womb, and God says you should not murder. One more thing is there is a text in God's case law where he gives an example of a baby dying in the womb as a result of somebody's negligence.

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And he says – and this is amazing, Jesse – when people say life for life, tooth for tooth, eye for eye, that has to do with equal justice.

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So if somebody steals something, cutting their hand off according to the Scriptures is unjust.

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It has to be equal justice, right? Well, in the case of eye for eye, tooth for tooth, in that case, when that's said, it's said directly after, directly after somebody who causes the death of a baby in the womb.

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Life for life. Capital punishment according to Scripture. And that text is specifically referenced towards the killing of a child in the womb.

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There are a lot of Christian women who are having abortions.

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And a lot of men who say that they are Christians are encouraging it. Why is that? Sin? I think that –

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I mean, I can only answer that. Meaning that they are not Christians, they're sinners? I think that, yeah, I think that people – there's many people that profess the faith that do not truly possess faith, don't truly trust

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Christ. They don't have a living faith. Right. It's not alive. It's not real. It's just a profession of faith. And in those cases,

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I think that you can see that. You can identify that. And I don't know what's going on in every person's heart. I don't know, Jesse. And I want to give mercy and grace to everyone.

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I want everyone to know Jesus. But a mother and a father who walk their child into a place to pay an assassin, to tear their arms and legs off, they are engaging in an egregious sin.

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Yeah, yeah. Why is it that more churches are not repudiating abortions from the pulpit?

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Well, I think we have a problem in the pulpit, Jesse, and that is that we have a history behind us in the kingdom of God, God's church in history, where you have heroes of the faith in the pulpit.

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You have men that are willing to lay down their lives. There are men who took the call of Jesus seriously where he says,

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Woe unto you when all people speak well of you. There are men who told the truth from the pulpit because it was the truth, and they wanted to love people enough and love

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God enough to tell people the truth. To tell the truth, yeah. And I think that the problem is in the pulpit. I think we have a lot of cowards in the pulpit, a lot of people who are not willing to stand on what

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God says. And what are they afraid of exactly? Well, I think we love comfort. We love ourselves.

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We love the praise of men, the applause of men. And think about this, Jesse, and again,

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I know you're familiar with this. In Galatians chapter 1, when the apostle Paul confronts the church in Galatia for this false gospel that had crept in, these people that were trying to mix, you know, faith and works and Jesus for justification before God, he says,

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If I come back and preach that to you, let God curse me forever. Let me be anathema. He says,

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Do I seek to please men or God? He says, If I still sought to please men, I would not be the slave of Jesus.

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So these men who are preachers, they're afraid of the women. They're afraid to offend anyone.

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And so... Yeah, well, I think, I mean, I would go beyond, I mean, women, yes, but also men.

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Especially in the 21st century evangelical West, we have this rich history behind us,

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Jesse, of fighters and warriors. 21st century evangelical West.

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We have people who just want to be loved and praised. Amazing. I'm talking to Pastor Jeff Durbin.

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And we will take some calls at 888 -773 -773.

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Back in a moment. Talk with in -studio guest,

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Pastor Jeff Durbin. He is the pastor of Apologia Church out of Tempe, Arizona.

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He's on a, he's doing a media campaign to fight abortion.

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And we got to get to all of your calls. This is Manhood Hour, 888 -773 -773.

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I want to ask, you believe that the death penalty should be given to folks who have abortions, for doctors performing the abortions, women, of course, who have them, and for guys who pressure women to have an abortion.

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Is that true? Well, I believe, yeah. Anybody who engages, I think that in any other case in our judicial system, anybody that engages in the unjust taking of a human life is culpable for murder.

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In the case of, say, a mother and a father who pay an assassin to kill their child.

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That would be considered murder. And they would be held in any other case guilty of the crime of murder.

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And in terms of what we talked about last time, I believe, of course, that abortion is murder. And I believe that we should treat it like murder in any other case.

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If a mother and a father kill their five -year -old, I want them to have to stand before justice for that crime.

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And in terms of moving forward, we, of course, hope for state legislation that would criminalize abortion at the state level so that moving on, we would see it in a consistent way, in a real way, that makes sense and say this is murder.

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And we would treat it as murder from that time forward. And so, of course, we're not looking to have us go back in time to see everybody that's had an abortion.

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I want grace and mercy for everybody who has had an abortion and to be forgiven in Jesus Christ. But moving forward, we want to see the civil magistrate uphold justice for these fatherless children.

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How about are you working on laws right now that would cause abortions to become illegal so that they can be punished?

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Well, one of the things we're doing at EndAbortionNow .com is we are doing the frontlines work of going to the abortion mills while it's taking place to love these women and men and to give them the good news of forgiveness and salvation, but also to say we'll help you.

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That's one aspect. The other aspect is exposing abortion for what it really is nationwide through the media. And the final aspect is, well, you're talking about the legislative aspect.

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People can go to EndAbortionNow .com right now, and we have a special service on there we've taken care of for you where you go in, you put your information in, and you literally just click a button, and it sends a letter off to your legislators in your area that lets them know you'll stand with them for the immediate criminalization of abortion.

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And how does it take place? We believe things like what's happening right now in Texas, HB 948.

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It's very simple. It says that that's a human being from conception. That's life. That's how Texas has defined it.

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And if you take the life of a human being in Texas in an unjustified manner, you're guilty of murder.

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That's the kind of legislation we're looking for. So you're just working on this on a state level. Have you spoken to President Trump or anyone connected to him about this?

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No, I haven't yet. We hope to, of course, one day. We do believe, Jesse, I will say this. We do believe that the way that we fought against abortion for the last 40 years, 40 -some -odd years, in terms of fighting against Roe v.

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Wade, has been an abysmal failure in terms of saying we just need to overturn Roe.

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Roe v. Wade is not, according to our government system, the

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Supreme Court does not make laws. Congress makes laws. And so the Supreme Court's opinion in Roe v.

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Wade was based first off of a false premise. It said that what's in the womb is potential human life. We know, as a biblical fact, that's not true.

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And as a biological fact, it is irrefutable. It is human life from the moment of conception.

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You don't become human in the womb. You are human from conception. I agree with that. And so Roe v. Wade was based off a false premise.

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And Roe v. Wade cannot subvert the laws of the states. The states, like Arizona. Right now,

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Arizona has a law. It says abortion is against the law. It's a crime. It's never been repealed. It's never been adjusted.

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It's never been changed. It's currently a law in the books. And according to our constitutional system, the

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Supreme Court does not create laws that can subvert the laws of the states. And so that's important.

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So we think we should do it at the state level. Are you happy about the new Supreme Court Justice Gorsuch?

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Are you happy he's been appointed? I don't know a lot about him. I've tried my best to try to understand what his position is.

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And so I'll say this. I'm open to listening and seeing where he's at. I don't know if you told me last time you voted for the president,

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President Trump. No, no. We had a discussion about it. You said I sounded like a Rand Paul guy, you said. Oh, yeah.

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So you're a Rand Paul guy. How can you be a Rand Paul? Are you a

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Rand Paul guy? You don't look like one. You said I sounded like a Rand Paul guy. You might look like one. Yeah. Well, no,

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Jesse, I think my hope is, and I think you and I would probably be right in agreement on this. I believe that our history is rich and amazing and beautiful.

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It wasn't a utopia, but it was awesome. And it's essentially Christian in many ways. And our governing documents, all that stuff traces right back to biblical principles.

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And that was the zeitgeist. That was the spirit of the age, was biblical worldview. It was in the atmosphere.

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And those documents, those governing documents that we have, I think we need to get back to that. I would like a candidate to get us back to that.

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So you're not a Trump guy, you're not a Rand Paul? Well, you know, I like – can

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I say I like Ron Paul? He's not running. Right. But I like – in terms of – I don't like everything about him. I don't agree with everything he says.

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But in terms of small government – Ron Paul is the son? Rand Paul is the son of Ron. Right.

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Or Rand is the son and Ron is the daddy. So you are for the daddy but not for the son?

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Well, I like them both. But my hope is – and this is essentially it – constitutional, republic.

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Oh, okay. I think that's important. So did you vote for the president? No. Oh, man.

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No. You didn't vote for anyone. I would have – if I could have chosen, I would have said maybe closer to Rand Paul.

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I like Ted Cruz. You and I said this last time. I like Ted Cruz a little bit near the beginning, but I think it got weak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he did.

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Yeah. I was a little surprised but not really surprised. About? Because most republicans are weak.

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Yep. You know, they're rhinos and weak. You and I wouldn't have any disagreement there. The last time we talked,

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I asked you about sin. Yep. Do you remember that? I do. That was a fun discussion we had, don't you think?

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Yeah, it was interesting. Yes. And so I asked you, as children of God, do we still sin?

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Yeah. And I believe you said yes. Yes. And so you said yes, right? Yeah.

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Because the Bible says that Christians sin. As a pastor, you've been called by God, right?

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Yes, right. You've been called by him. So that means you represent the truth. Yes. And are you a son of God as well?

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Yeah, as a child of God, yes. You are a child of God. You are his son. Yes. Not in the sense of as Jesus as the divine son of God, but a son in terms of adopted as sons.

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Yeah. Brought into God's family. So you're returned to the Father and you're now his son. Yes. And that means that you have a brand new nature.

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That's right. You now have returned to your father, God's nature, right? Yes. And in his nature, is there any sin?

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Does God sin? No. God by nature does not sin. So there's no sin in the nature of God, your father.

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That's right. Right. And so as his son, how are you able to sin? Well, there's a tremendous philosophical mistake to make a parallel between God and his own nature who fundamentally does not sin, cannot sin, and a human being like myself who was created in the image of God and was fallen and has been redeemed, raised up to spiritual life.

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We still live in a fallen world, and the New Testament teaches that people who say that they know

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God and they practice sin, they live in sin, they pursue their sin, they show that they lie.

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Is the word practice in there? Yeah. Do you read Koine Greek? No. Okay. So I would encourage you to get a

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Greek translation and look at the etymology of the words in terms of practice, habitual, it becomes your, like the words that Paul uses are in terms of employment and identifies who you are.

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Is sin the nature of God or the nature of the Prince of Darkness, better known as Satan?

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Is that God's nature or Satan's nature? Well, I would say Satan is the father of lies, and he's the one that was a deceiver that brought sin into the human family, but God does not sin, no.

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So is it Satan's nature? To sin? Yes. Yeah. And yours and mine, too, without Christ.

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So, right. So it's Satan's nature, and if it's Satan's nature, you're no longer of your father the devil, how are you still sinning after this break?

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Got it. 888 -775 -3773. And we're also going to take some calls when we come back, folks.

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Back in a moment. Okay, folks.

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Welcome back. I am Jesse Lee Peterson. We got to get to all of your phone calls here in a minute.

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I do want to say that there is some news out there, according to Drudge and New York Mag.

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Is that right, James? They are reporting that sources says Fox News has decided

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Bill O 'Reilly is out. They have prepared an announcement before he returns from vacation

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April 24th. They are still negotiating his exit, debating whether to allow him to say goodbye to his audience.

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If this is true, folks, this is not good. It is not good for men around the world.

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And we'll get into that, see where this goes, but it's not good if it's true.

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And by the way, we have brand new merchandise for the first time on the

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And every dime we get goes back into the nonprofit. It goes back into our nonprofit organization.

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Here is the commercial for the brand new merchandise. I am so excited.

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I can't believe it. Finally, the FallenState merchandise is here.

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Look at this beautiful shirt. We have red, white, and black. Comfortable.

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You're going to love it. Order them now. Go to the FallenState .TV. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

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Yes. This is my first time seeing it. This morning. Weird. Did you have fun? That's your...

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After you give a 30 -minute cringeworthy interview and lay into somebody, you go, but did you have fun?

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Is that right? Well, I ask in every interview on the TV show, did you have fun?

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Yes. Because I saw one recently where I was squeezed up the whole time while I was watching it because you were laying into some people.

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Did you have fun? It doesn't feel like laying into me. It just feels like conversation. Yeah. That's just who you are.

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I get it. This is Pastor Jeff Durbin. What's your website? Well, apologiaradio .com.

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A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A radio .com. That's our TV show, radio show and stuff. But endabortionnow .com

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is the site for gathering the church across the

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United States to speak into this issue consistently. And I was talking to you just before the break, prior to the break, about sin.

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You say you still sin. What type of sins do you commit? Well, Jesus says, love

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God, love neighbor. He said that all the law and the prophets are built upon that. And all of the law, all the little parts and pieces of the law are extensions of love for God and love for neighbor.

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They're just fleshing out what it means to love God, love neighbor. And so fundamentally, you and I and everybody who knows

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God and does not love God perfectly with their heart, soul, mind, and strength, or love their neighbor as they love themselves perfectly, evidence of that is throughout the

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New Testament. But I would say specifically 1 John chapter 1 verse 5, starting there, he says, if we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

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There's that walking in darkness. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, his son, cleanses us from all sin.

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And if we say we have no sin, that's present tense, by the way, it's speaking to Christians. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

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Well, really it says if we say we have not sin. No, if we say we have no sin. No, we,

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I mean, of course the Bible has been each generation down through the generation is perverting the

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Bible by rewriting the Bible in their own image based on what's happening in the culture.

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Well, that's interesting. But if it says we have not sinned and we all have, we all have sinned and that's why we need to repent and be born again.

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The problem is that... I still want to know what type of sins do you commit? Well, let me, let me just address that real fast if I could, Jesse. The problem is in how you just quoted that it's in the present tense in the

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Greek, because he says right after that, just to show you. I know, but the reason we were repentant because we are sinners, we recognize that we are sinners and we realize we were wrong.

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So we repent for that, from that. And then once you're born again of God, there's no need to keep repenting because you're not from that point forward, you're not sinning.

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Well, I would say that the apostle John would disagree with you there. Where's John now? Where is

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John? No. He's with Jesus. That's right. He would disagree with you in 1 John 1, he says in the present tense, if we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us.

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If we confess our sins, present tense, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Also, I would,

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I would encourage you. What type of sin do you commit because of time? Any sin, not loving my wife exactly the way

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God calls me to, being selfish, being prideful. Those are all sins with a high hand against God.

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So when you were born again, nothing changed. Oh no, yeah, absolutely. You were a sinner prior.

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I used to be a drug addict. You were a sinner prior to the repentance. And after you repent, you're still a sinner.

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You are still a sinner, right? Born from above, just like you, Jesse. So let me ask, you were a sinner prior to your repentance, repenting, right?

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And so after you repent, you're still a sinner. So what changed? Well, I would say

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Ezekiel 36, new heart, the law of God placed within me. I would say what

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Jesus says, born from above. Ezekiel 36, God puts a new heart within you. And what's your new heart?

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Well, the text says in Ezekiel 36. Because you said you're still a prideful person. You don't love your wife perfectly. You're still a sinner.

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I hate my pride. So it sounds like you have the same heart. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. My old heart would have loved my pride and would have been fine with it.

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My new heart despises my pride. It despises my selfishness. My new heart desires to love

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God and to pursue holiness. My new heart repents, and it repents because of the grace of God, because he's there.

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But if you are still a sinner, because of time, I can't keep harping on that. So let me ask, how do you explain 1

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John, where it says, Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his nature remains in him,

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God's nature, and cannot sin, because he is born of God.

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That's right. That was first, it was the reference for that is? John, 1 John 3 .9.

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1 John 3 .9. Well, I would say you need to read 1 John chapter 1, where he specifically addresses the fact that Christians do sin presently, and they need to confess their sin.

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And the text there in context. He doesn't say Christians sin. Well, I would say we need to read John. He did not say that Christians sin. Well, this is the danger of reading the

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Bible by proof text. You need to read the Bible in context, and in 1 John chapter 1, he lays down that Christians do sin.

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And he would actually. He doesn't say Christians sin. I would say this, Jesse, with love and grace to you and respect, he would identify what you say as the truth is not in you.

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Right. If you are a sinner, then the truth is not in you because you are of your father's devil. When you identify, when you say that Christians don't sin and we have no sin, he says the truth isn't in you.

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But you're missing it up there and you're confusing it because you have sinned.

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That's why you need to repent. But once you're born again of God, you no longer sin. But I think what it is, what you might not realize is that real

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Christians don't sin. Those who have been born again. Is Donald Trump a real Christian? Those who have returned to the

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Father. Is Donald Trump a real Christian? Those don't sin. Is Donald Trump a real Christian? I don't know yet. I'd have to ask Donald.

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Does he sin? I'm not aware. I could point to a few things.

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When I come back, we'll take some calls. But you do sin and you're a preacher. That's my belief.

31:46

I walk in the truth and I hate my sin, yeah. Back in a moment folks. I want to get you some calls.

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I'm looking at the clock. The time is going by fast. I just want to be clear that we're all sinners who need to be saved.

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But once you're saved, then you no longer sin because you become a son or daughter of God.

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So we all have sin. So if you look at my past history, it's a sinful history.

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But the moment I was born again of God, all that changed and you won't find that.

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Let me ask. What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law of God. What does that mean? Well, the law of God is representative of God's own character.

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And so when God expresses his law, he's expressing what's consistent with his own character and attributes.

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And so sin is falling short of the mark. It's falling short of God's standards.

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It's lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness. Sin is man playing

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God. That's one aspect of sin. That's it. And once you realize that and you overcome that, then everything else falls away.

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All the habits you picked up as a result of playing God disappear. Let me ask. The last time we saw,

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I asked, are black people suffering due to racism? Not all, not all, not all, but most.

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Are they suffering due to racism or the lack of moral character? What did you tell me about that? I think there's a host of issues.

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I don't think that institutional racism is the primary problem of black people suffering today.

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I think that the black people suffering is the same as in terms of white people suffering.

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And that's what we're just talking about, lawlessness, falling short of God's law. I think that fatherlessness in the black community is heartbreaking.

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And I think that's a primary problem in the black community is fatherlessness. I agree.

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What is it now? What is it? Over 70 percent? Yeah. Some say 73, up to 73 percent are born out of wedlock.

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So you threw in institutionalized racism. So my question, though, are they suffering due to racism or the lack of moral character?

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Well, I think that the suffering, most, I mean, asking me to give a hundred percent what percentage,

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I'd say most of it is to do with the destruction of the family. It has to do with sin, fallenness generally.

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So it's not racism. I don't believe that the institutional racism is the primary cause of black people suffering.

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Do you believe that there is such a thing called, does racism exist? It's hatred.

34:53

So does racism exist? Hatred exists, yes. And that's race. Racism is hatred. Hatred for another person because of the color of their skin, that's hate.

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So just to be clear, it's not racism, it's hatred. Hatred. There's no such thing as racism.

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Well, we're all of the same race, the same human family. Is there anything such as racism?

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Well, in terms of how people generally speak about it today, when they say racism and they're talking about color of skin,

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I would identify it as a minister of the gospel as the primary problem. The Bible doesn't say racism, it talks about hate.

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So does racism exist? In terms of hatred? If I define the word as hatred, do people hate one another and are there white people who hate black people and black people who hate white people?

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That exists, yes, that kind of hatred. Does racism exist? Are there people who could be called racists?

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Why are you not giving me a yes or no? I'm giving you the definition. No, no, no. I didn't ask for the definition. Oh, okay. You have to define terms.

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I asked, does racism exist? Does racism exist in terms of hatred? Yes. I didn't ask that.

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But that's what I'm telling you. Oh, you're having fun. I'm having a great time. No. I'm ready for two things on the

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Jesse Lee Peterson show. One is, am I the head of my wife? And the answer is yes.

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Two, do I still sin? Every show will have at least a segment there. So now you've got me stuck on, does racism exist?

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Well, because I want to— You want to give me a yes or no? Because I'm a minister of the gospel, yes. Unless you ask to be yay or nay. Yes, in terms of hatred.

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Listen, I have to address it, Jesse, here's the thing. I'm a minister of the gospel, and so I have to address it in terms of the gospel.

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The problem is hate. Hate. So if it's hate, that means no racism. It doesn't exist.

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It's a made -up word. It's a lie. It's an illusion. Well, yeah. No. Okay. Now I see what you're getting at.

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You've got to help me, Jesse. You've got to give me some definitions and explain things. But no, I need to know what you think. There is only one human race.

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Only one. You and I have the same parent. Adam. Right. We go back to the same God. Well, I don't know. If you're sinning, we might not be serving the same

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God. Well, I would say, Jesse, and I mean this with respect to you, if you say you don't sin today

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John says you're a liar and the truth isn't in you. And where's John now? Well, John's with the

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Lord now. And God said that if you sin, there's no truth in you. I can demonstrate to you that you just said today.

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For this reason, Christ— Well, watch me show you. Let me finish this point now. Okay. For this reason, Christ came that you might be born again of him, right?

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I am born again. Because sin is of your father, the devil. Yeah. And so if anyone says that he's of his—if anyone says that he's of God and he sins, he's a liar and the truth is not in him.

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And that has to do with living in darkness, living in your sin, unrepentant, not confessing.

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Because what you just did is you proof text, Jesse, a portion of John, and you didn't let

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John speak in full context. He says—he identifies what you say as not walking in the truth.

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Well, I'm talking about what God said, not what John said. So wait. Okay. Now we're getting to some more fundamental issues.

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So you don't believe that the New Testament is the Word of God? The Word of God—the New Testament is the

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Word from God, but the Word of God is written in our heart. 2 Timothy 3, 16 -17 says,

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The Word— The Word— All Scripture is theonoustos, breathed out by God. Right. That's why I said— And it says, Holy men God spoke as they were carried along by the

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Holy Spirit. So this is the breathed out Word of God from the Spirit of God. Yeah. That's why I said the Word in the

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Bible is the Word from God, but the Word of God is made flesh. Yeah, that's it. The Word is in our heart, and it's that Word and those words that we should live by, and the

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Bible clearly says that the kingdom of heaven is within, and that we should go there. That was an amazing string of proof texts,

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Jesse. Let me do this. I would point you to theonoustos, what God says in this Word. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I want you back.

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Yes. All right. So we'll get you back. I want to go to the Bible Go -To guy out of Los Angeles. Oh, the Bible Go -To guy is gone.

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Let's go to Las Vegas and talk to Ethan. Ethan, good morning, sir. You're on the air with Pastor Jeff Durbin.

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Good morning, Jesse. Good morning, Jeff. Good morning. Thank you, Jeff, for what you do.

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I appreciate people who take a stand against abortion. Yeah, me too. I wanted to share.

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Yeah, that's actually why I left my church. I became a

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Christian last year. Ethan, I'm sorry. Hold on. Hold on to that thought. Let me take a quick break, and I'll let you finish that point when

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I come back. All right? Quick break. Back in a moment. Not anything else but being with you.

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Don't need to see the art of the picture and love of the screen.

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Don't let them say, we told you so. They tell me you'll love me.

40:07

So, Jeff, it's amazing that we have about three minutes left here in this episode. Jeff's website is inabortionnow .com.

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Inabortionnow .com. Give me yes or no. Does God tell us to be perfect as He is perfect?

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Yes. And does God tell us to be holy as He is holy? Yes. Those who sin, are they being perfect and holy?

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No. All right. That's why you need Jesus, Jesse. Because He's perfect. But if you sin and you've got

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Jesus, you're still not perfect. Not according to John. Let's go to the Bible. But John didn't say what you said he said.

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I'm going to have to have you back about John. You have to have me back about this. I want you to stew on this one thing. Ready? Okay. I will demonstrate to you that you sinned on the show today.

40:52

All right. You said that God's Word has been corrupted. I said the Bible has been. Right. And it shows an ignorance.

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Because people have read it. For example, they put in the word, don't practice sin. No, no, no. How do we get the

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Bible? Let me ask you that. How do we get the Bible? That is deceiving. That is deceiving. How do we get the Bible transmitted to us? It was inspired by God. No, no. The transmitted text.

41:10

Tell me about the transmission of the text. Let me do this. I can't even get into it. We have three minutes. I want to go back to Ethan, just to be fair to him.

41:17

Ethan, yes. Yeah. Ethan, we have about two minutes now. Go ahead. Okay. So, I was going to a church, and it was like my first church.

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And there were a bunch of nice people over there, and I liked it. But I was starting to wonder, why don't they take a stand on moral issues like abortion and things like that?

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And I went on the website. And I was like, I don't know. of the church. And it says that, you know, abortion is bad, but women, it's her choice in cases of rape.

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Goodness. Things like that. And I was just flabbergasted. And I don't want anything to do with that church anymore.

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And I just think that that, and I think a lot of churches, they stay away from moral issues out of cowardice, but mainly for political reasons, because I think there's a bunch of Democrats who go to the church, and they just don't want to alienate them and lose their tithes.

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Yeah. We talked about that earlier. There are a lot of preachers and pastors who would not stand against abortion in the church.

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Do you support same -sex marriage? No. No. Is homosexuality wrong? Absolutely.

42:21

Yeah. It's a sin. But, Ethan, you're absolutely right, man. If they're supporting that, it's time to take your hat and run.

42:30

Yeah. I think I tuned in to your church. Oh, great. There are good churches.

42:35

You said Las Vegas, right, Ethan? Yes, sir. Get a hold of me at ApologiaRadio .com. I can point you to some solid churches out there.

42:43

Okay. Thank you, Jeff. Absolutely. Thank you, Ethan. All right. Thank you, Ethan. Jeff, it was fun, as usual. I had fun,

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Jesse. You should have me back. I will. We'll talk about the transmission of the text. We'll go at it with each other.

42:53

We'll make everyone cringe. There are over a hundred Bible transitions.

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Now, don't drop that right now at the last minute, because I'm going to have to spend time refuting it. So, you know, out of a hundred transitions, there have to be several.

43:07

The original Greek language. Thank you for tuning in, folks. And thanks for calling in. I'll be back tomorrow. Brotherhood Organization of a

43:14

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For more information, call 1 -800 -411 -BOND. That's 1 -800 -411 -BOND.