Is Russia fulfilling Biblical Prophecy?

Good evening, good evening to you now, if you're watching now live, or good morning or good afternoon, whenever you have chosen to listen or watch this video, but most importantly, we appreciate you joining us and letting us be a part of your life, sharing

God's word with each other. We would appreciate it if you would share this video, if you would let us know that you're watching, ask questions, join in the conversation, we would really appreciate it.

And with that being said, tonight is a good topic, it's a hard topic, and based on current world circumstances, a serious topic because there's war going on in the world today and people are losing their lives, they're losing family members and loved ones and friends, and there's evil in our world today.

It's a suffering thing, and we want to be in prayer for all those people and be in prayer about the situation, and we want to take that serious, and we want you to know that we do take it serious, and we are praying for those people, we're praying for Christians, we're praying for God's glory,

His kingdom, and God's will to be done. And so, with that being said, specific circumstances that are happening right now in the world are not new.

This conversation has come up plenty in the past, it just happens to be coming up again because a certain country is involved in these world circumstances.

And the world circumstances, this war that we're talking about, involves a country named

Russia. And so, like I said, this is not the first time this conversation has happened, but it's a conversation about Russia, and in times prophecy.

And if you're on social media at all, or if you watch some of the Christian television stations,

I'm sure before social media, the Christian television stations, they were all about it, all about these conversations, but now it's probably more prevalent on social media.

And you've probably seen it, that Russia is maybe fulfilling

Bible prophecy, and we won't talk about that tonight.

Is that actually the case? Is Russia fulfilling Bible prophecy? That's a good conversation to have.

And what we want to do, we want to make sure that we are accurately and rightly dividing the word of truth, to hear what

God is telling us, how He wrote the Bible, how He wants us to interpret it, and what

He wants us to get from it. And that's what we want to do tonight. And like some of the conversation we had earlier,

I think it was on the thread of the advertisement for this post, I made the comment that though we're talking about eschatology or end times, and I hope that's edifying for many people, what

I also hope is edifying for folks is our approach, our serious approach to God's Word, and how we interpret, because that method of interpretation can be used in all other areas of understanding and interpreting

Scripture. When it comes to church polity, your marriage, every other area of life.

We want to interpret the same way. We want to hear what God has to say about the situation. So with that being said, let's dig into it.

I'm going to tackle the introduction and let Dan tackle the popular verses where if you've seen posts or videos about Russia and end times prophecy, you've probably also seen

Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39 come up, and maybe some other verses, and I'm going to let

Dan tackle that and we'll talk about what that means a little bit later on.

But in the introduction, and I would encourage you if you've not already, go back and watch some of the other videos that we've done on Matthew chapter 24.

And it's a little more in depth than what we're going to do tonight, but it will give you the foundation and the point of reference.

I know that there's some people that we're friends with that, and I could be correct and I can always be wrong, but they don't understand how or where I'm coming from when

I single or focus down on Matthew chapter 24 and everything kind of revolves around that.

But I think it's, I think Matthew chapter 24 and what Jesus says in Matthew 24 is essential for pointing us in the right direction in all other topics of eschatology, even tonight's topic on Ezekiel 38 and 39,

Russia and end times prophecy. And what do I mean by that? Well, let's go to Matthew chapter 24, starting in verse 33 and 34.

That's the pivotal and key point. And I'll explain to you why after I read it.

So Matthew 24, 33 and 34, Jesus says, even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that he is near right at your door.

Truly, I say to you, verse 34, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

So what we need to know is who is this generation? Because all these things is this, this tribulation prophecy, the great tribulation and all that comes with it.

Everything when we can, when we think about end times, that's what Jesus is talking about. All these things that he's previously said in Matthew chapter 24, all these things must take place.

This generation will not pass away until all these things take place. So who is this generation?

I think Jesus is very clear. He is very clear who his audience is and who he is leading, who he is speaking to leading up to Matthew 24, 34.

In verse 34, he says, I say to you in verse 33. He says, you, when you, and he does that over and over and over again, if you go back to the beginning of the chapter, he's speaking directly to the disciples because the disciples are asking him these questions or at least three questions that are recorded.

So the immediate context is you, the disciples. And so that's, that's one, one verse, you know, one chapter and you have the other side that says, well, the way you should really interpret that verse is the generation that sees these signs is who they're talking about.

And so that generation hasn't come on the scene yet. But let's look at the greater context of Matthew.

If you look at Matthew chapter 23, verse 36, he says, truly, I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.

Well, who's the you in chapter 23? If you go back and you look at all these verses, it's

Jesus is very repetitive. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees. Woe to you, blind guides.

Woe to you, blind men. Woe to you, blind men. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you blind guides.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you blind Pharisees. Over and over and over again.

Jesus is very repetitive, very clear that his audience is the scribes and Pharisees to which he says, all these things will come upon this generation.

In chapter 24, the disciples, when you see these things, when you see these things, this generation will not pass until all these things come to pass.

If that's not enough, you can go back to Matthew chapter 16.

Go back a few chapters. Matthew chapter 16, verse 28, and it says, truly,

I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom.

And if that's not enough, go back a few more chapters to Matthew chapter 10. Matthew chapter 10, verse 23, and Jesus says there, but whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next.

For truly, I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the son of man comes.

So it's not just a one -off verse. It's over and over and over again in the book of Matthew, where Jesus is telling us these things, his coming, this tribulation, all these things are going to happen and take place in that generation.

So is it just in the gospel of Matthew? Are there any other places where we see this terminology, this reference to things happening quickly or soon, maybe in their generation?

Since we're in eschatology, talking about eschatology, why not look at the book of the Revelation chapter 1, verse 1, the revelation of Jesus Christ, which

God gave him to show, to show to his bond servants, the things which must shortly take place.

And then chapter 1, verse 13, excuse me, verse 9, note, verse 3, my apologies.

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy and heed the things which are written in it for the time is near.

And then verse 9, I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation.

So you have it in Matthew, the whole book of Matthew is very consistent. You have it in John, in John writing the book of the revelation.

And even in Peter, first Peter chapter 4, verse 7, the end of all things is near over and over and over again in the

New Testament. It is, it is clear that this partial preterist interpretation of Matthew 24, 34, that all these things, these tribulation things must happen in that generation.

The New Testament supports that interpretation, the whole of the

New Testament. So what does that mean for our looking at Ezekiel 38 and 39 and our understanding of Russia and its potential place in end times prophecy?

What does that mean or how does that lead us or help us encourage us to look at those things?

This is what it does. If those things, those things that I just said are true, that all these things, these prophecies were fulfilled through and up to AD 70, then these things that we're looking at with Russia and these things that we're looking to happen in the future, that we're pulling

Ezekiel 38 and 39, and we're putting it into the future. And we're saying this, this involves

Russia somehow cannot be accurate. If Jesus said that all these things must take place in this or in that generation.

To me, that's the best starting point is to start there with Jesus.

And when he says these things take place so we can end the conversation right there.

Because we are talking about, or we're seeing all these articles, we're seeing these videos that involve this thing with Russia.

And Russia is a part of end times prophecy. And we get that from Ezekiel 38, 39.

But if it's the case that all these prophecies were fulfilled, then the conversation is over.

We're not looking for Russia to fulfill any prophecies from Ezekiel 38 and 39.

So there's my argument. Dan, I know that was a mouthful, but do you have anything to add to that introduction as Matthew 24 being our starting point,

Jesus, his words being our starting point with or for eschatology?

Nope. You do that to me all the time. No, I don't have anything really to add.

I think what's really important from a Bible exposition, a

Bible exegesis, a hermeneutic, a interpretational standpoint, the real important thing about what you said was that you started from the beginning of the passage.

You walked through to the end, applying the same hermeneutic, the same principle the entire way through.

And when you come out the other side by taking things at face value, saying what they say, writing scripture, interpret scripture, things are less clear.

When you pop out the other side, what you arrive at is a partial preterist position on that passage, which is really what you want to do with every passage, whether it's eschatology, preteriology, history.

It's a little tricky when you get into poetry, but really it's the same principle. You will, excuse me, walk from the first to the end, and you don't change.

You listen to the different principles of the genre that you're interpreting. You understand the parallelisms and the things, the adding and subtracting.

It makes more sense in my brain. With the Hebrew poetry, it builds off of itself in a contrast and compare and stuff like that.

So when you come to something like Ezekiel, you want to do the same thing. You want to run from first to last with scripture, interpret scripture.

When you come through it, I don't see

Russia anywhere close to being in Ezekiel. Maybe 1

Corinthians 15, Christ is putting all of his enemies under his feet, but it's still not individually mentioned there.

Well, let's go there and let's talk about, and we don't want to cause an offense to anyone who holds that position.

We want to share from our studies what we see, and maybe we'll edify you and encourage you to take a look at the scriptures and see and take what we say, compare it with scripture, and see if it lines up.

See if we're being consistent, because we want to be consistent in our interpretation of God's word, but that's what we would desire of you as well, which is the reason for this video and the reason for this conversation, is because we want to hear what

God has to say and not us reading the newspaper and seeing what's the latest trend and putting that into the

Bible. We want to hear what God has to say. So, let's go to Ezekiel because that's where they get

Russia or that's where they put Russia in and see how we interpret it and what we see in Ezekiel.

So, Ezekiel chapter 38, and I don't think there's really a whole lot of verses in 38 -39 that we have to look at, but I'm going to let you definitely be in charge of this, and I'll follow along.

All right, well, I think it's kind of helpful to look at first what the claims are when somebody says, hey,

Russia is found here in this particular portion of scripture.

They'll look at different words, different descriptions of where stuff is happening and try to assign to a place in the world, basically what's being described here, and they'll call that Russia.

For instance, to start off at the first of it says, the word of the

Lord came to me, being Ezekiel, son of man, set your face toward God of the land of Magog, of God being a person, the land of Magog being a country.

And then in the ESV, which I'm using, it says, the chief prince of Meshach and Tubal, and prophesy against him.

Now, other translations will say it a little bit different.

They'll say, Rosh of Magog, or Prince, or what does yours say,

Robert? It says, the Prince of Rosh. Right. That right there is where they get the idea of Russia.

It's not just because of the word. There is some other talk where it describes of the north.

And so, they go north of where Israel is located, find a country that is located up there.

And it gets kind of confusing. It's said that it doesn't necessarily depend on who is in a certain area at a certain time.

Say 500 years from now, Russia is no longer there. And there's some other country that's up there.

It's still going to be talking about that country up there. It's the land that we would know as Russia. It could be further along.

It could be somebody else. But this doesn't make a lot of sense because that word Rosh is not a place.

The word Rosh in Hebrew means head, but your noggin.

It could also be like, I don't know what the rest of the country does, but I know when

I was living in North Carolina, you talked about a creek.

Where does the creek start? The head of the creek. The head of the table, the head of the bed.

It's the top, the front, the beginning, the primary portion of it. So, you can go one of two ways.

You can either head like this ball thing up here, or you can think of it as chief or principal or head, headmaster, that type of thing.

So, the ESV actually translates it really well when it says the chief prince of Meshach.

There's one called Gog, the land of Magog. The chief prince.

So, he's way on up there. Not the king. One step below the king.

One step below the king. And so, I don't know where Russia comes in there.

There's a lot of things that it could be, but Russia is not one of them. That right there is not pointing to anything to do with former

Soviet Union, Russia, or anything like that. I think it's important to emphasize those two things that you said.

It's not Russia because it sounds similar. Roche and Russia, people have said that before.

And then, it can't be Russia because Roche is not a place. It's a title.

And so, for us to put Russia in there just doesn't make sense.

Right. Is what I'm hearing. Okay. Yeah. Now, I mean, if you were to look at the

Hebrew word in modern

Hebrew, and you look at the word for Russia, and then you look at the word Roche, even then, it's not the same.

So, yeah, I don't know. It does go on though, and it speaks of different things.

It says, thus says the Lord God, I am against you, O God, the chief prince of Mitech, or it'll say prince of Roche.

He's talking to that highest prince, the second in command, so to speak,

Antubal. And I will turn you about, put hooks in your jaws, and will bring you out, and all your army, the horses, and horsemen, all of them clothed in great armor, a great host, all of them with buckler, and shield, and wheel, and swords,

Persia, and Cush, and Put, are with them, all of them with shield, and helmet, and gomer, and all his hordes, and Beth Togarma, from the uttermost parts of the

North, with all his hordes, many peoples are with you. And what he's talking about there is he's talking about these nations from all over the place.

There's no world at that point. He's saying, all of these, they're going down with you. You think you've got something great going on, but you don't, and you and them are going down.

Yeah, we'll just leave it at that for right now.

Is this a good time for the map or not? Yeah, bring up the map. Can you see the mouse?

Can you see my mouse? You probably can't. No. Okay. All right.

So right there in the middle, you have Roche. And we've already discovered that Roche is not a place.

It's a title for the chief. Right there, it says the chief.

It's not a place. But if this thing was just about Russia, you've got all these other folks that Ezekiel mentions.

Right. And what they're trying to say is that there's going to be a worldwide attack against the nation of Israel.

And I understand where they get that, because right here you have described a whole bunch of people from all over the place who are supposedly going to be battled against by God because they're about to do some sketchy stuff.

And really, it's not entirely wrong to say that all those nations are going to go against Israel.

But what is wrong is to say that the map as it's written right there is exactly what is being talked about.

It's kind of weird. Think of it this way. These are nations from all over the place with one prince.

There are several times in world history where this has been the case. I think the one that lines up here the best, and there's reasons for it.

We'll get into it later. I think this is the Medo -Persian empire that he's talking about. And so in the

Medo -Persian empire, you have people scattered across the globe, different provinces, different governors, but you've got several people who are in charge and one who is a prince.

He's right below the main emperor, main dictator, whatever you want to call him.

I really think that what this is describing are the events in the book of Esther. So you would still have these nations in play, but these nations would be different provinces under the care of the

Medo -Persian empire. The prince who tried to destroy all of the

Jews, we know this. The Jews still celebrate every year the destruction of that guy.

It's during the festival of Purim. It's the destruction of the wicked evil

Haman during the time of Esther, where he hated the

Jews. He went throughout all the land, the whole kingdom, the whole known world at that point that was under Medo -Persian control and said,

Hey, we're going to just wipe these folks out. We hate them. We want them gone. God said that he was going to fight for them.

It's interesting that there's no mention of the name of God or the word God or Lord or Yahweh or anything like that in the book of Esther.

But I think that's on purpose because they would know this prophecy from Ezekiel and they would find it later on.

They would know, Hey, God said that this was going to happen. And when it did happen, he said he was going to take care of us.

And look at this. He did. He took great care of us. No God said he was going to do something and God did it.

But when you run through these two chapters, the consistency between the events of the book of Esther and this prophecy remain even to the point where we're almost down there already.

Go down to verse 10. It says, Thus says the Lord God on that day, thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil scheme.

There's the plan of Haman. And say, I will go up against the land of unwalled villages.

If you remember, the nation of Israel, most of their walls, most of their villages were unwalled.

Why was that? Because God was supposed to protect them. I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls and having no bars and no gates, to see spoil and carry off plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places that are now inhabited.

And the people who are gathered from the nations have acquired livestock and goods who dwell at the center of the earth.

Now that speaking of Israel, the land of Israel, the center of the earth, the place where God has set his favor on those people.

And the Sheba and Eden and the merchants of Tarshish and all its leaders will say to you, have you come to seize spoil?

Have you assembled your host to carry off plunder, to carry away silver and gold, take away livestock and goods to seize great spoil?

That verse right there is amazing. When you look at the book of Ezra, which took place after the book of Esther, I'm going to flip over there real fast.

The book of Ezra chapter one, he's starting off, he's trying to give people an idea of what part of history they're at.

This is what's been going on and this is what's happening right now. All right.

So remember what it said? Have you come to seize spoil? Have you assembled your host to carry off plunder, carry silver and gold, take away livestock and goods and to seize great spoil?

Now look at how Ezra described this in verse four. All right. Yeah. Four.

And let each survivor, whatever place he sojourned, be assisted by the men of his place with silver and gold, with goods, with beasts, beside freewill offerings for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

He's talking about the time where they plundered the people of the

Medo -Persian empire. He's saying to them, hey, when Esther was there, Esther spoke up for us to the king.

Um, Haman was put down and we were able to, uh, we were able to, to get like, we want who got all sorts of cool stuff.

Um, now some people may be saying, well, where do you get that? How do you know? How do you put down that Haman is

Gog, the prince? Like, it sounds like you just reach in. Uh, well, we're chapter 39, like it says his name.

Uh, really interesting in Hebrew because in Hebrew originally there were no vowel points. Uh, so his name is in the

Hebrew of Ezekiel, same as the Hebrew of Esther. Now look here at verse or 29, uh, 39 verse 15.

Uh, and when you travel through the land and anyone sees a human bone, then he shall set up a sign by it.

So the barriers have buried in the valley of the big nasty war battle.

Lots of death. If you find a bone, you're going to put the bone where the bones belong.

The bones are going to belong over there in that pile, that heap. And the name of the heap is

Haman Gog. Tell that Gog of Magog, the chief prince,

I'm coming for him. And after I came for him, when you find bones, go put it in Haman's valley.

Right. Haman Gog. Uh, the next verse, Hamona, which, uh, it means multitude, also has

Haman's name, like right there in it, uh, is also the name of the city, the little city right there where all of the bones are going to be piled.

It's named after him and thus shall they cleanse the land.

The land is going to be cleansed. So what you see there is a picture of God's faithfulness, excuse me,

God's faithfulness to God's people through a time in history. There's no need for us to take this and throw it 2 ,020, what at that point, 26, 27 ,000 years in or 2700 years in the future.

Right. 26 ,000. Wow. But there's no need for us to do that. Right. We don't have to do that because he's describing things that are going to take place in, in their time period.

Um, and, and that's, that's really what most of Bible prophecy was about.

God telling his people what's about to happen. Um, one thing that they didn't get was marching order.

They would get prophecy. You know, this is about to happen. That's going to happen. You done messed up, repent.

They didn't give marching orders like the church did. The church received, uh, go into all the world, make disciples, baptize them in the name of the father, son, the

Holy spirit, and teach them to obey all that I've commanded you. It's, it's not really the same thing.

The most that, that the church got was that at the very end, um,

God will return. He will judge the living and the dead. And those who are found to be righteous will be, uh, resurrected to everlasting life.

And those who were found to be wicked will be resurrected to everlasting torment. I see that in John five, especially, um,

Jesus says it like straight out verse 29. That was in my sermon tonight.

I better remember that. What, what I find fascinating is that the pre -trib pre -millennial dispensational view is an actual industry.

And it's, it's a money -making industry. And the, the partial preterist position that we're looking at right now is, is free.

You don't have to buy a book series. You don't have to buy, buy movies. The partial preterist position is free.

All you have to do is take the time to interpret scripture with scripture and look at the prophecy and see where it's been fulfilled.

If it's been fulfilled yet. Um, so, so basically, uh, I want to try to make it easy thinking about the timeline that you just gave us.

Um, and, and we can even go back to Daniel because you and I have, we've walked through the book of Daniel. Daniel was, um, he was part of the first dispersion into exile.

Ezekiel was part of the second dispersion into exile and Ezekiel was prophesying about something that is going to happen for what was going to happen in his future.

All right. So then you have these folks in the exile. Um, they're away from their, uh, land that God had given them in exile, but God had promised that he will send them back.

And he did. And so you have, um, Esther, Nehemiah, and Ezra, those three books are that time period of the end of the exile and post exile.

And so these things that Ezekiel prophesied, you'll find fulfilled like Dan was showing us in Esther and in Ezra, where you find, you find

Haman in Ezekiel, you find Haman in Esther, you find, um, what, what these, um, what these countries were going to be coming after in Ezekiel, these, the silver gold cattle goods, you have the same exact wording in, in Ezra, that these were the things that they were bringing back from their return from exile to be rebuilding

Jerusalem and the temple and to have her sacrifices. The same exact words, the exact fulfilled prophecy you find in, in Ezra chapter one.

And so, so there's, there's your timeline. And, and that that's prophesied in the end of Ezekiel 39, because it runs through the timeline.

So Paul, then he says, what's going to be the result of all this stuff of Haman being put down of, you know, the

Jews being able to plant and plunder and take whatever they want to. What's going to be the end result?

It says, therefore, thus does the Lord God. Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel.

And I will be jealous for my holy name. They shall forget their shame and all the treachery they have practiced against me.

They will dwell securely in their land with none to make them afraid. When I brought them back from the peoples, gathered them from their enemy's land and, and through them have vindicated my holiness in the sight of the nations.

Then they shall know that I am the Lord, their God, because I sent them into exile among the nations and then assemble them into their own land.

I will not hide my face anymore. And when I pour my spirit upon the house of Israel declares the

Lord. There's two parts there. The first one, he says, he'll bring them back.

He will vindicate himself from among the nations. Where was it?

Then verse 28, then they shall know that I am the Lord, their God, because I sent them into exile among the nations and assemble them into their own land.

He says that they're going to have trouble, but brought back, they're going to get brought back. Things are going to be set up.

And we saw that, Nehemiah and Ezra, the whole thing was kind of tumultuous there for a while, but towards the end, people were very serious about their faith.

I mean, so serious that they took the people who they couldn't find pure Jewish bloodlines and put them away.

They said, no, we're taking, we're taking God serious. God made us a promise. He said, you've been wicked and I'm putting you out, but I'm bringing you back.

Here we are. We're living in the land. God has brought us back, but also listen here and not hide my faith from them anymore.

When I pour my spirit upon the house of Israel, declares the Lord. I believe he's talking about the, uh, uh, the dead

Pentecost. So what's the end result of all of this?

He's saying the trajectory, the, the, the history that's going on here is going to lead you from exile back into the land.

You're going to seek me with your whole face and you're going to find me. And especially when

I pour out my spirit and look at the, what happened in the time of Jesus, there was a lot of people who followed

Jesus, fell away. And then at the day of Pentecost, the people, uh, the

Jewish people from all over the place, the 3000 who were there, heard Peter speaking and flocked back to Christ.

The spirit fell upon them. And then the spirit went out from them to the

Gentiles and to everyone who would believe because the promise it was given way back.

The promise was to the Israelites and to their children and to, um, all who are far off to everyone who would come and believe in the

Lord God. So what I would like to do now is if you hold to the pre -Trib, pre -millennial dispensational position, um, we would just humbly, lovingly ask that you be open -minded to, to a critical look at that interpretation and see that from our view, there's some inconsistencies in that interpretation.

Um, especially in this conversation that we're having right now. Um, let's look at a couple of those inconsistencies.

Um, that one of the claims to fame of that camp of interpretation is the fact that they interpret the

Bible literally. Um, so here, what we're looking for in this battle is for, um, these armies to be using these, these ancient tools, these ancient weapons.

And if this is Russia, we're not going to be seeing shields and helmets and bows and arrows and swords.

I don't think that's going to happen. If we take the Bible literally. Right now,

I have heard that there's going to be destruction beforehand. That's so bad that all that technology is going to be lost.

So they're going to revert back to the old weapons. Okay. But it's also the same camp that talks about the mark of the beast being a microchip.

Right. Gotcha. So another possible inconsistency in the interpretation is we want to see

Russia in this text, but not only have we shown that, that Rosh cannot be

Russia. Um, we going back to the map, all these, um, all these names, all these people are real people.

If you go back to Genesis chapter 10 verse two, these are, these are descendants of JPEG and they're known as the

Scythians. And if, you know, we say that name come up in the new Testament Scythians.

Um, and so these are real, real people, real descendants, real places. And if we take the

Bible literally, then, you know, the, these names, um,

Tarshish, Gomer, Magog, Meshach, Tubal, uh, they don't exist anymore.

So now there is one thing, and this is one of the, one of the arguments. Um, uh, if you go to Russia, um,

Russia does claim to be of Scythian descent and I have no reason to doubt that.

Right. Um, but they wasn't Scythians weren't living up in Russia at the time of that prophecy.

They had migrated there afterwards. Right. So I don't, it takes a lot to get to the point where you'd consider that but, um, it, it doesn't seem it's, it seems that this prophecy would mean absolutely nothing to the people of that day.

Right. And yet he was expecting them to gain great hope by telling them that they were going to be restored.

Right. Well, if, if you're getting to that point anyway, then you're, you're really, really pushing things to the, to the edge because we've already looked at Matthew 24, which, which should close the conversation.

Um, we we've already looked at how, um, Rosh is, is not Russia. Um, so if you're pushing it, you know, that, that far to say, well, it might not say

Russia, but Russia is descended from the Scythians, you know, we, we've already stopped that conversation kind of way back.

Yeah. Um, and just because they're from their Scythian descent doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that Russia is in huge fear.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and another place that we've stopped the conversation too is what you just did.

You, you've shown where this prophecy has already been fulfilled. Right. So we don't need to be looking for these, these

Scythian descendants. Um, so you, you have that. And I, I have it written down here and I forgot to mention it to you before we went on.

So I don't know if you've, you've looked at it or not, but if you, if you look in Ezekiel, um,

Ezekiel chapter, um, chapter 39, um, and, and I don't want to put you on the spot.

So I apologize since I didn't bring it up. Um, you know, you love doing that. I love doing it because you're smart.

And, uh, and I appreciate your, your study, uh, your scholarship on this. Um, but this is just something that I heard as one of the, uh, possible inconsistencies because, um, the, the timeframe seven years is mentioned here in Ezekiel 39.

And so they, they want to say, Hey, look, that's the seven year tribulation. So you have a chapter 39 verse nine, then those who inhabit the cities of Israel will go out and make fires with the weapons and burn them both shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, war clubs, and spears for seven years.

They will make fires with them. And so they say there there's the seven years there, you know, that's part of our interpretation.

But if you go a little bit further, um, and I was reading an article where they said they don't take an account for swell where you have seven extra months.

Um, have you looked into that at all? I have not. Okay. That's fine.

But, but, um, if they're pointing back to Daniel, uh,

Daniel doesn't explicitly say years. Uh, Daniel says, uh, 70 sevens, it doesn't say weeks just as 77 are declared.

Um, so there's no real need to throw a definite time period on, on that.

Um, it looks out from Daniel, um, the seven years, let's look at it for seven years, but, um, yeah,

I don't see where Daniel really fits in there. All right. So basically what we did there is just, we, we wanted to encourage everybody to examine their interpretation with scripture and see if it lines up, see, see which is the most consistent, um, consistent, hermeneutic, consistent interpretation all the way around.

Um, now Dan Gogg and May Gogg are mentioned again, but before we go there and let you talk about that,

I want to ask you from the pre -trib, pre -millennial dispensational position, those folks are still looking for this

Gog and May Gog war battle against Israel.

And they think it's Russia. When do they say this event will take place?

Well, it depends. Okay. Um, from what

I understand, uh, that is supposed to take place either before or during the tribulation period.

Um, a lot.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Somewhere in there.

Yeah. So we're right in there. So when I, when I realized that I saw a problem because we were looking at Ezekiel and we've discovered that Ezekiel was fulfilled post -exile in Esther.

The second mention of Gog and May Gog is in Revelation chapter 20, Revelation chapter 20.

So if it's in Revelation, you know, it's gotta be in the future, right? Revelation 20, I think it's 8.

Yeah. Revelation 20 is the least debated chapter in the whole Bible, right?

Right. But the problem with Revelation 20 verse 8 and the mention of Gog and May Gog there,

I don't think that there's any debate that the reference to Gog and May Gog in that event is post -millennial, after the millennium.

Right. It, it, it seems that, that this reference to Gog and May Gog is going to take place at the end of the millennium and really is going to usher in the, the final state, the final judgment, the final, yeah, it's like final judgment, everything, like it's going to end right there.

So even if this prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and 39 was referring to, to Russia attacking

Israel, Ukraine is not Israel. Right.

And that would also mean that this particular attack is taking place at least 1 ,007 years premature, or at least we're looking for 1 ,007 years prematurely.

Right. So now some people are going to wonder, Dan, you just got done telling us that Gog and May Gog had to do with Esther, and now we see it right here in Revelation talking about the end of the millennium,

Gog and May Gog, what gives? Fair question. But look at the way that, that Gog and May Gog was used.

Sorry, the other verse seven, when the thousand years are ended,

Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth,

Gog and May Gog. To gather them for battle, the number is like the sand of the sea.

From what I understand at the end of recorded history, there's a little time at the end called

Satan's little season. This is describing that season where he's let go to deceive the nations once more.

Right now we're kind of doing a pretty good job of it. He will gather them together for war.

There will be people who want to see extinction of all

Christians, complete, utter extinction. To gather them for battle for the number is like the sand of the sea.

And they march over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city,

Jerusalem. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them. What happened in Esther?

You have Haman, a type of Satan, I would say.

He plots and schemes to have the Jewish people completely wiped out, wiped off the face of the planet.

God's chosen people nixed, never to take another breath. And God intervened.

He talked to the king at the time, or through Esther, after saying, hey, king, you don't want to kill your wife, are you?

He's like, no. So the Jews went out and plundered all the people who were going to kill them, wiped them out, destroyed, took their bones, threw them in Haman's valley.

So what is happening here? He's saying, just like Gog and Magog, when Prince Haman tried to oversee the complete extinction of God's people,

Satan is also going to try to oversee the extinction of God's people. And God will not let that happen.

So I don't know how many folks, I don't know exactly how that's going to play out.

But what I do know is that Satan is going to fail and Christ is going to win. And the fire that comes down is going to be final judgment.

This is going to enter into the eternal state. We're going to see judgment, the righteous are going to be raised to eternal life, whipped to eternal death.

So that's my response to that. But hey, I'm down with that.

I think that's very clear. I think it's very understandable. I think it's consistent with the text and I'm on board with you and I agree with that.

All right. Well, one thing real quick, you just popped into my head. While we're explaining this, this principle of seeing something spoken of the

Old Testament as describing something that's going to happen in the book of Revelation, or did happen in the book of Revelation.

The book of Revelation has tons of these allusions to Old Testament passages.

If you want to understand Revelation, learn your Old Testament. You get very familiar with Old Testament prophecy, the book of Genesis, especially, the law of Leviticus, the different sacrifices.

When you come to the book of Revelation, you'll be able to see that it's speaking in the language of the

Old Testament. Because think about when it was written. It was written, even if you disagree on the date, it was written somewhere between 67 and 95

AD. Real close, tons of Jewish people, written by a

Jewish man, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They were living in a

Judaistic area. This is Israel. They breathed this stuff.

They knew the Old Testament. The written down portions of Scripture that they had, that everybody had at that point, was the

Old Testament. For the Old Testament to be mirrored all throughout Revelation is no big thing.

That just makes sense. If you're going to talk in language of prophecy, it's going to be that looks like the

Old Testament. When you see something like this, Gag and Magog, see what Gag and Magog was all about in the

Old Testament. Not as it pointing to Revelation, but see what it meant to those people back there. You've got the same thing going on with...

I just have one in my head, just left. Say it again.

Something in my head, it just left. When you look at the different bowls and vials and stuff, you see them talking about blood and sun, moon, and stars and all that.

Go look through the Old Testament. The Old Testament has those exact things. Isaiah 13 .10,

talking about the destruction of Babylon, talks about the sun, moon, and stars falling out of the sky. You see that again in Revelation?

What is it talking about? It's the judgment of a nation. It's just a little interpretive tool, especially with the book of Revelation.

Know your Old Testament, find out what it meant there, and then see what it's trying to tell you here about the new revelation that's been given to us.

He didn't make it so difficult to understand that we can't go in there and find it.

Exactly. You've given me a visual. If you're standing on the shore of Revelation, skip a stone across the water, and you'll hit...

Let me go this way. You'll hit Matthew 24. You'll skip again back to the Old Testament.

Learn the Old Testament, skip back to Matthew 24, and then go back to Revelation.

That's basically what you're saying to help you understand what's going on. All right.

Well, I think that was very helpful. I hope it will be edifying to many other people.

I do want to end on this, though, and get your thoughts on this. Somebody might ask the question, all right,

Rob, all right, Dan, why don't we just let... If you hold the pre -trib, pre -millennial position, dispensational position, if somebody holds that, and then you guys hold the partial preterist, post -mill position, what's the harm?

Why don't they just hold that position? You hold your position. Why talk about it? What's the big deal?

Well, Dan, tell me if you think... What do you think about my thoughts on this?

That position, especially in this conversation, talking about Russia, talking about Gagame Gagame, potentially could be a dangerous interpretation to hold.

Because if you're in our context, in our country, and you're looking over there, and you see what's going on, you have a heart for the people.

You want to pray for them. You want to pray for peace. You don't want there to be war. But in your heart of hearts, you're holding the pre -trib, pre -millennial position.

In your heart of hearts, it's inevitable. And so to me, to be consistent, it's almost a dangerous interpretation.

Because it will eventually be hands -off and say, it's going to happen anyway.

God's going to use those countries, or those countries are going to destroy each other.

They're going to destroy Israel. It's just inevitable. And so we'll just eventually be hands -off and won't help those in need.

And we won't stop the wars that we could prevent. Do you feel that way?

Is that thinking consistent, or am I just off base? Well, it can be dangerous.

I don't think it necessarily has to be, but it can be. We know that some of even

Ronald Reagan's policies were based upon that interpretation of sculpture.

I don't know of anyone who said something like that, but it would stand to reason that if you see in the scripture that Russia is going to attack somebody, going towards Israel, and then it's going to continue on down, it's going to attack

Israel, and then it's going to usher in the last days. And we're two months out from seeing all this happen.

Why would I plant a church in my town? Hey, man,

I'm not going to give you a blanket, but you need to repent of your sins because the end times are coming, and you're not going to like what's about to happen.

To me, it's the same argument that we talk about when we talk about evangelism and church planning like you're talking about.

Number one, the method is different. We use a fear tactic. The Lord could come any minute, so you need to turn to Him.

And then we don't evangelize like we should because we're so worried about the rapture happening at any moment.

It just leads down all these paths.

I think even more than that, one of the things that's been the most damaging to Christianity has been that these sorts of predictions and sorts of looking at the newspaper and allowing the history that's in front of us, the current events to color or dictate the way that we read

Scripture, is that we've had a lot of prophecy from modern

Christians about what's going to happen. 88 reasons the rapture is going to be in 1988.

And when they were wrong on that, they got the dating wrong, 89 reasons why it's going to be in 89. Hey, look,

Russia's coming to take Ukraine. They're going to start going down into Israel.

They're going to start World War III, and that's going to be it. 60 years from now, if that doesn't happen, people are going to look at us like we're kooks.

I mean, honestly, even if you still hold to that position, we should keep our mouths shut, preach the gospel, baptize people, teach them to obey everything that Christ has commanded us because that's what he's told us to do.

Because if we're wrong, if we're missing things, then we hinder our witness because we say,

God has spoken clearly, and this is what he said. Where's your God at now? Because what you said was going to happen didn't happen.

And then we end up looking like the Jehovah's Witnesses, they all had the same thing happen, false prophecy where they were proven false, and they're viewed as cults.

We have a nation that wants to see Christianity in America squashed.

Why would we give them a reason to think that we're like one of those cults? I mean, they're going to hate us anyway, right?

Why give them a reason? Well, they've been prophesying falsely. Clearly, they're just a people full of lies.

We slander the name of Christ when we tell false prophecies. Yeah. And there's one other thing that they're going to have to face eventually, and I would think sooner than later, and it's that idea of the generation.

I mean, you can't keep stretching what a generation means.

Right. Eventually, you've got to come to reality that a generation can't mean 200 years, 250 years, 300 years.

Their timetable was 1948 with the reestablishment of Israel as a nation.

How long is a generation? It can't keep going on forever. So that interpretation is going to have eventually face that reality.

Should face that reality. Well, let's go ahead and wrap it up.

I really appreciate all your help, Dan, in tackling this conversation. If you guys have any questions or comments, we are open to it and we hope we can help in any way that we can.

First and foremost, yeah, go ahead. Before we go, can I have a little bit of time to respectfully say what

I feel pastorally about this situation with Russia and Ukraine? Absolutely.

And while you're doing that, share the gospel. Okay, I got you. You want me to do that now? Yeah, do it all.

I got a bunch of backlash for this the other day, and I don't see why because basically reading scripture.

I'm going to point this out. During times of war, so, and you've seen the

American media lately, there is going to be misinformation, disinformation, stuff that is untrue, stuff that is true, it's going to be mixed up.

We need to act wisely in anything that we do. So remember this, this is from the book of Proverbs, chapter 18, verse 17.

The one who states his case first seems right until the other one comes and examines him.

In other words, saying, you've got two kids that come up running up to you, you know, one of them's crying, and the kid that's not crying says,

I don't know what happened, he just fell down. And then I've got two boys so that you can imagine.

The other one comes running up and says, no, he, he pushed me.

Oh, well, see, I thought you just fell down. But now since he told me, you got pushed.

It can be the same thing with world events. We need to reserve our judgment on the political aspect and the historical aspects of this until a time when all of the facts can be sorted out.

And here's why. It may look a certain way. One way or the other,

I'm not taking sides on this. It may look a certain way to us and we may be wrong.

We might not be, but we may be. And the thing that Christians should be most concerned about is not whether we're right or wrong quickest, but that we ascertain the truth and act accordingly because God is a

God of truth. Number two, second bit of scripture

I want to bring. Psalm 115 verse three.

And I'll say this because in uncertain times, this is something that we have to remember because we don't always know what's going on or how to respond to it.

In Psalm 115 verse three, it says, Our God is in the heavens. He does all that he pleases.

Our God is in the heavens. He does all that he pleases. He is sovereign over every single thing.

The heart of the king is like water in God's hand. He's like water in a pipe.

He directs it wherever it wants to go. All of these things are happening. God knows exactly why and he knows exactly the outcome.

Because he knows why, because he knows the outcome, we can trust him that no matter what we face, we don't have to be afraid.

We don't have to be scared. And he says explicitly in Romans 8.

Romans 8, starting in 35, Who will separate us from the love of Christ?

Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

As is written, For your sake we're being killed all the day long. We're regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

We see stuff going haywire. There are folks dying. There is war, turmoil, danger that could very well be pointed in our direction before too long.

What do we think of it? The Heidelberg Catechism in question one put it this way, that all things are subservient to my salvation.

God and his plan are working out everything for my good and for his glory.

So what does that mean? What do we do? Practical steps. Pray for peace. We want peace.

It's ridiculous to have death in a world where God created perfection.

So no matter who's right, no matter who's wrong, pray for peace. Because peace is what we should desire the outcome of any conflict to be.

It's peace. And know that the peace that we want isn't peace that the world has to offer.

Oh, there's a verse that says that. It's a song too.

Randall Goodgame on Slugs and Bugs did a song about it. He sings the scripture.

How's it go? Jesus says, he says, my peace

I give to you, my peace I leave with you. Not as the world gives, let not your heart be troubled.

We have a peace that passes understanding. It's not a peace that the world gives where they sign a treaty and then you wonder for the next 60, 70 years, what's going to happen.

We want them to find a peace that is a peace that comes from them knowing Christ and his gospel.

So pray to that end. Pray to the end that they would have peace from war and that they would have peace from the payment and penalty and the wrath of their sin because they have found salvation in Jesus Christ.

And that's it. Do not be afraid because God has got you and then pray for peace everywhere you go.

And you know, it came from the scripture, but also it fits every context. It's one of those timeless truths, trusting

God, pray for peace and expect him to do glorious things with his gospel through anything that takes place in this planet.

That gospel being that Jesus Christ has come to die for sins. The sins of people, whoever may be wrong in this conflict, those sins are not so great that Christ can't forgive them.

And let's not face, let's not trick ourselves. Even those that we consider innocent, they're still human beings marred by sin and death themselves in need of a savior.

Let's pray there for their salvation, because just like us, we need to have our sins taken care of.

And our sins are only taken care of because Jesus took upon sins to himself, went and died on the cross, jumped into the grave with those sins and killed them.

He now raises up with life. Remember Colossians 3 says that we have died with Christ.

The me that sin, me that is debaucherous and hateful and causes wars and rumors of wars, that me in Christ has been crucified, nailed to the cross, put down in his life that he laid down has been substituted for me in place of that death and sin and filth that I brought to the table.

That is the gospel that we trust in a Christ and a God who has sent us a solution, his own son to die on the cross for our sins.

And then raised him up and giving him a crown to rule over us good and rightly, not like the rulers that we see in the world, but a good righteous

God, a wonderful King who will always take care of his people. And it's good to forgive them of their sins.

Amen. Let's pray to that end. Father, we come to you now thanking you for this time that you've given us to have together to look at your word.

And we pray, we desire to hear from you and not us. We're not seeking our own interpretation.

We're seeking your interpretation, what you have to say. So Father, that's our heart's desire.

And we hope that that comes across as we make these videos.

And Father, we want to pray to that end as Stan was talking about what you've done and your plan and your kingdom work.

What a glorious plan, what a glorious savior. And we give you all praise and we give you all honor and glory.

And we boast in you because your ways are the highest, your ways are the best, your mercy and your compassion are the greatest.

We thank you. We ask for your help because in and of ourselves, we look at the turmoil, we look at the evil in this world, and we can say, trust in Jesus.

But in and of ourselves, we can't. We need the Holy Spirit.

We need your help because we want to trust in the promises. We want to trust in the savior.

The promises says, you will never leave us and you will never forsake us, that nobody can separate us from your love, as Dan quoted to us.

And so we pray that you would help us to trust in the promises, trust in that savior and look forward to the good things for your glory that you're doing in this world.

And we pray all these things in Jesus name. Amen. All right. Thank you, Dan. And everybody, thank you for watching.

We pray that you will come back and join us again on this coming

Thursday night. Hopefully we will have the Pastors Panel Podcast. Remember that Jesus is

King. You'll live in that victory, speak with the authority of Christ, live with the victory of Christ and continue to go out there and share the gospel of Christ.