Cultish: Exploring the Dangers of Yoga - Part 2

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Sermon: 3 Essential Christian Truths - Part 3

00:00

Alright, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults. My name is

00:05

Jeremiah Roberts I'm one of the co -hosts here as always. I'm joined by my trusty sidekick

00:11

Andrew the super sleuth the super sleuth of the show. How are you doing, man? I'm doing great I feel like I need a costume now that I'm a sidekick.

00:17

Yeah Like I was riding in one of those like motorcycle side carts, are you saying that you might need a mask?

00:25

That seems to be popular thing I hope not. I hope not.

00:31

Well, we are here back with Christine Schwann. How are you? I'm doing really good

00:37

Thank you. Good. Well good. Well, we had a good conversation with you and I it was we covered a lot of ground and And you had mentioned with we end the last episode

00:49

Talking about really some of the physical components. We're going over some of the physical yoga poses and we're explaining

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The origins is that every single one has to have a specific intent to move energy around the body to Release that one of the seven chakras that are in according to Hindu philosophy within the body so you're seeing it's an inherently spiritual practice now that's kind of the case that we're we're making here, but you said you had a couple points you wanted to make right before the episode had ended and this has to deal kind of with Who's in charge of yoga or they and that kind of leads into really another aspect that's connected to yoga

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Which is the whole almost like a guru industry and you'll you'll see that both in that Westernized version of that but also the

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Indian version of that is what the origins in India as well to like the version of the Eastern idea of that but also the

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Western idea of that but go ahead with what you're saying about that. Well, we had been talking and as you were showing all the different Physical asanas quote -unquote a posture and how they listed the benefits to the physical body before they then finally would talk to something about the spiritual aspect and In a what

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I needed to point out is in this Westernized type of yoga community that we have that the 200 hour teacher training is all it takes to go get to be teach become a teacher of yoga

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Of those 200 hours 20 hours is

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All that is required in the anatomy in the physiology portion now I'm I'm also perfect adjunct professor of an

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MA physiology. You are putting people in You know positions and your knowledge of the body

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You you have to check with your instructor is 20 hours or less and I know when

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I went it was simply here's some paper Look at it all Memorize them.

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We'll take the test and then you're done and it was very lax in that So I I think that from the physical aspect, you know

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You've got the bodies of like physical therapy or you've got you know, occupational therapy or a medical board

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They all have boards where they're regulated There is no regulatory body in America or Canada And that I'm aware of there there are none

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I don't say more there are none so this yoga Alliance which is now the place where You get your 200 hour teacher training because you've done their core curriculum from the yoga

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Alliance Which goes out and about 70 % of that curriculum. You're going to learn the history that you're gonna learn the

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Hindu religion It's what you're gonna learn and some Sanskrit So there is no regulatory body

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Nobody could come along and check with that. And oh by the way To go and just open up a teacher training school

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I could open up a teacher training school right now and and I'm supposed to be listening doing that core curriculum and Continuing to push that down the line.

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So I just want to comment real quick Jet pastor Jeff and I ran a karate school together back in 2004 and I mean if any of you seen the on our

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YouTube channel on apology studios Jeff was teaching the self -defense classes and I was sort of his

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Is glutton for punishment and that just because I mean, it's literally that's what happened I was sort of his demo guy to back when we were practicing

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What we'd see though is that I was we are Ranking as far as how long it took to to advance from belt to belt was a lot lot

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Longer than other people. I mean it was very much commercialized where people were getting a black belt like within a year

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I remember I went to the one of the one of Our competitor my friends who

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I became friends with I went to his school for his black belt his black belt test I remember seeing their their demonstrations and the kicks that they were doing in comparison to what we were learning just as yellow belts and Felt it looked like we were almost on par with them and I was actually nervous and concerned.

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I just said hey, this is Really bad and then he just said yeah, that's just how they are

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They're commercialized but they he was we had it we are we have this commitment to the stamp

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Do you have this gold standard? versus these people where it's that you have these schools popping up we'd see all the time where the people there'd be people that I Was training as a white belt now to see them as at a tournament

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Three to four months late is six months three to four even six months down the road where they're they're refereeing

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I'm in a sparring match where I'm Point sparring with someone else and this person has a black belt and is refereeing a match between myself and another person

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So you see like a lot and this is again. This is another martial We're gonna do we're gonna probably do episodes sometime of martial arts down the road on cultures as well, too.

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But You would see this art that originated in in Japan For example, you would see the purist but then you see the westernized

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Commercialized version of that so that just that just resonated me with me It's like the documentary that that we watch for this yoga

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Inc. Talks about mic yoga the fast food commercialized capitalized

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Yeah version of Eastern philosophy And Hinduism mic yoga and then like what you're just describing it there.

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There's actual commercial capitalized Companies that where you pay to get the black belt. They're gonna give you the black belts what they do

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We got McRoddy, too. So that's what it sounds like to me. Very similar No, you you make a good point as you as you were talking and describing that You know, we were looking you you saw those postures

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Austin is right there and you're looking at Putting a physical body and we all are built different.

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We have different restrictions we have different tightnesses injuries, you name it and we're if you might get instructors who have no knowledge of A man can't do that as well as a woman, you know, they generally get the

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Gumby's who who can flex and bend It's easy. I Sorry, I just you know

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Generalize that but that's that's what it is. And so the potential for Physical injury down the road is pretty prominent in the shoulders and the knees

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Vikram one because you had to say what Vikram says which is lock the knee lock the knee lock the knee and He meant it lock the knee.

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Yeah, and you and people blown out knees Well again, the pain is a spiritual aspect to yoga like the no pain

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No gain the fact that you're trying to overcome the senses in order to get more connected to this

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Universal Brahman that's that's the point to overcome. So yeah, they want the pain

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Yeah, so what would you say to what was your experience to is I want to kind of get into this a little bit because You know worldview.

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I mean, there's always a worldview behind something and also there's there's also a byproduct

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Usually when you there's always a fallout of or a logical conclusion a lot of times that worldview will come to So if you look for example, like Jim Jones and the aspect of divine economic socialism and how that Ended up anything.

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We're getting we're getting an extreme example here of What happened in Jonestown in November 18th, 1970 it's an extreme example

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It was a byproduct of a worldview, but a lot of times what you'll see too is the whole guru industry like the yoga gurus

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They're very egotistical as if they have the knowledge you have to follow them and do what they say in fact

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And that's why I can I started to mention Bikram in that documentary by it's I'd hold out until this episode

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So in the episode in that documentary that's on Netflix Extraordinary fascinating, but it dealt with just really heartbreaking because there there's a lot of real at that time young women who were

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And all of them were in similar experiences There was something that happened in their life and they found yoga and that from their perspective as a positive outlet and then they got

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Into Bikram, but then specifically they want to become a part of the Bikram yoga Become an instructor.

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So what was the there was a level of truth? They talked about the documentary my mind's running a blank here But what was the amount of training they had to do in order to become certified because then we're talking about this is the mic

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Yoga thing, but it was this long Seminar that would happen at his hotel And One of the hotels that he would rent out

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But just talk more about that or that initiation process that you're aware of and I'm not from the

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Bikram So I wasn't there but what I had heard only in so far as the the person who

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I got trained from Jimmy Barkin was his master teacher. Hmm, so We we learned some things but at usually you at the end of the night you'd have from like, oh, let me step back

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I believe Bikram back then in the early 2000s his training instead of like a

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Four week intensive his was something like nine weeks I mean it was it was a crazy amount of time where you'd have to be in there and go through it and he would

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Can you generally do a practice in the morning of practice in the afternoon? You're learning in between and your evening then is was spent on Listening to the guru talk or About anything, you know philosophy

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Hindu all around the Hindu religion But I heard he would take them through past midnight just to keep a lot of them up just to kind of wear them down Knowing they had to get up there.

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There was a lot of that that had gone on in that in that particular

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Training and he would do that purposely because they were learning his words his postures it was very didactic and he was he was in charge and It would lead to other things in the evening

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From what I heard. Yes that they talked about that in the in the documentary. So a lot of times you almost see that Isn't it?

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It's almost like he thought he was God and he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it.

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Mm -hmm And isn't it interesting where you literally are your own

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God? In in Hinduism and that you can be and that's that's an aspect of it

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And so it's almost that the the practice of yoga I would say was almost the the outcome of what you saw in the documentary

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Bikram was almost sort of Hinduism in a way Working out towards his logical conclusion with the fallout and the abuse that happened one

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Talk about bad theology hurts people Bikram was a theologian. Mm -hmm. I would say yeah

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And yeah, then you then you see the fallout but also I just I found it intriguing you haven't seen the documentary was fascinating but you talk about nine weeks and Extensive training especially and I know to just working for it back when

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I was doing it Working for an hour and a half. It just felt like you like death afterwards like literally you're just Drench in it.

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You just like this is so but afterwards You feel just like almost Literally, you know doing those poses not really knowing what they were right and thinking

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I was totally fine But yeah, you know you definitely You know, we would see how you could use someone like that especially doing a session for multiple hours at a time for multiple days would get the person just from a social a sociological point just in a very vulnerable in state of suggestibility

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Mm -hmm. So yeah, you'd see that a lot too. That is what that is. That is what would happen

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You know, you'd start the morning with your morning meditations your practice and you always honor when you go to trainings you honored the gurus above them and this was a mantra that you had to do so I had to Worship, you know,

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I can't even remember them anymore and you'd faced east to face the Sun Syria That's why the

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Surya namaskar practice like gosh don't guy, you know, you actually are doing all this but Back to that you and I don't know not having been

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Called you guys are the experts here. But you know, you're there from you know, you might go to bed at 2 a .m

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You're studying you get up early at 6 a .m You're begin your day and it's the same group of people and it's you have to do it my way

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You have to do it my way meaning you you're not going to get a quote passing grade or if it didn't pass the muster of what the guru or the person training you wanted

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You weren't going to get it, you know, and and you know, you'd you'd get picked on or you'd get no do it again

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You know do it again So it wears you down I guess in all essence to say that and then you're you've created your own little community

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Where you are isolated from the rest of the world for a good I was first four weeks

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They were nine weeks like, you know aside from a phone call or something You're in your own little world and your own little culture.

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Hmm. You were you are Wow. Yeah Yeah, they're taking it to online a lot now

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But that was that was the intensive that they went through and he wasn't Vikram wasn't the only one there was another big

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A Guru of a yoga lineage that went down.

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Yeah. No, you'll you'll see that a lot too I mean, it's that like Bikram is one like people look at the extreme example and so Bikram as of right now

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I think what happened that after he had multiple lawsuits filed against him And if I recollect

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I think he had like those yoga studios are still around But they had the name Bikram removed on because it's almost tainted because a lot of it just went around they was publicly documented that these

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Sexual and physical assaults happened on multiple occasions and that's his name was pretty much tarnished

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For what? I know from what I remember in the documentary. He's still running schools He's still out there like teaching somewhere, but he's kind of lost that Giant popular reputation that he once had

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But yeah, I mean you'll you'll definitely see that I mean it reminds me to of you know, a lot of similar aspects of the documentaries like holy hell

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With that was one. We was a cult called the Buddha field but and I don't know if they're necessary practice they might have had yoga as one of like an extension of just some of their spiritual practices, but It just what's interesting too.

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Is that when it comes to that whole guru industry? It's incredible to see how how much people are spiritually hungry and that in the same way we've talked about it before how

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Maybe you could you could resonate with this telling me your experience, but it seems that right now we are in Western civilizations and freefall as far as its core

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Christian Judeo principles And so we're we are just running towards secularization as fast as we can

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But because we're made in the image of God we have a Jesus shaped hole And if we don't have

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Christ, we're going to try and fill it with whatever it is so that's where as Secularization is becoming the norm

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That's where people are just running towards anything that they can find When it comes to any sort of guru any sort of enlightenment anything that's spiritual that's there

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So that's what you see right now, especially like in today's society but you just that's kind of ways what do you see like maybe going back to yoga with like when you you were a practitioner and You were having people come into your studio and you were teaching

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Would you say that people were were they were they just there to look physically to get physically fit or were they were they kind?

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Of a spiritual journey was a little bit of both. What was that like? from getting to know some

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At the studios that I would teach at there were those who were the physically fit and they generally it's interesting they generally go to like Different teachers would give you a more physically fit class other teachers would give you a more spiritual based class if you will and I What I mean by that is when you're when you're going through the hour -long class

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The postures that you're doing when we were going through them you're being taught by the instructor

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So I would usually teach the the physical anatomical Educate you blah blah blah, but then there are those

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Instructors that you could go to and you're going to get the complete This is the opening of this and the complete spiritual

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So you you'd you'll be able to find the one that speaks to what your needs are at this point

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Are they different know that the bottom line? you're still doing the the yoga the asana practice for the purpose of Yelking and you creating the body the mind and the spirit all is one so That's yeah

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Yeah, it's it's you know, and it's really scary. And I I wanted to step back

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I forgot to say it early on and you know, this is really Bible based with us We believe in Jesus Christ is our

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Lord and Savior and All that I'm saying and sharing what we're talking about is just to like remove a veil

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I was telling you that was what I felt like I had a veil put over me and I could not see and I Didn't know but but if somebody hears

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Deuteronomy 18 and you read it again or somebody just hears this something inside might just Waken them up to the fact that this is an abomination to Jesus and we're commanded

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Not to have any other gods before us and to love the Lord the Lord God With all your heart your mind and soul period yoga is loving yourself told two totally different things

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Yeah, Jesus says pick up your cross and follow me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I know I want to actually

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Transfer kind of transition into like the next segment and just when you're talking about loving yourself Like loving yourself and you see a lot of time a lot of times to now with us, you know self -love self -care

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Self -esteem self -esteem, you know, it just goes on and on very selfish. Yes but when it comes to you know from a biblical worldview and just knowing how it's it's self -centered so one of the popular terms that happens to in yoga studios is

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Namaste, yes, I pronounce that correctly, right you did Yes, you did and so but however people will say it's one of those things where it's this is so inundated with our culture

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That people you've probably have heard this. I remember going I think like I said, I was any of the whole any sort of Whole Foods holistic

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Anything you will probably see that on some sort of product piece salt lamp candle

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Bottle of kombucha or something like that So explain to him like what that means and then

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I wanted and we know we're going out I did I do know and everybody who's listening who has taken a yoga class or is a regular practitioner understands and namaste the exact meaning of Out -of -sanskrit,

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I don't give you I will give you what I was kind of taught and I'm going to paraphrase it but in essence it's just saying to the person that you're in front of I Honor the light and the light in me the

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God in me the light in me honors the light the God in you Wow and at a class

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That is normally said You begin your class with a beginning

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Meditation maybe some scriptures from the Vedas or something. Who knows and Then you go through the asana practice and then and that's about 45 50 minutes

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And then you get to the point where we'll take you down to the final corpse pose, which is called shavasana corpse pose

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And then you're you're taught you are told I was I would tell them just imagine like you're dead

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Let go, you know and that became a meditative place With music maybe in the background depends on where you were and that's when things would get interjected

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Bringing you out of that then because you can't just leave the instructor is just taught to bring you all just come to a seated lotus position and You know, then she would its hands to heart which is the

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Anjali mudra the angel mudra Anjali mudra Which is what I as a

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Catholic I always my prayer position. That's my prayer. I put my hands together you are taught that that connects the energy and you pull it in and it anchors in your heart and then the yoga instructor would will say many things and then end it with namaste and It's kind of if you're a teacher out there and you're listening you might understand this may be some students

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But behind the scenes as you know, you're out in life. You're out and about it was also used for Well namaste bit

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Fu is really what it was meant. So the intention of the heart to use that namaste was not reflective of what it was that they were saying and that's

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That's just kind of the way to get around and I'm being spiritual. I didn't do anything wrong My heart is saying like, you know,

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I want to just cuss you out, but my heart I'm saying namaste namaste and inside And you walk away and then the superlatives would come out.

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Mm -hmm. That's what I witnessed. Yeah so you yeah, so you would just see like a lot of just the egotistical aspects of all this and it newest newest so crazy is

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That again, I'm coming from someone who's not by any means an expert on on all of this

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But I just this goes to remind me though. Is that again my perspective? I'm coming from someone who is just Christian who was doing this as as an eyesores exercise where I thought

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I was fine It was thought I was doing it for reading up on the health benefits and things like that Like I said,

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I got into it because I was doing home I was doing the Tony Horton home workout system and when the

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P90 X versions There's a couple different ones out there, but the yoga his yoga training I remember

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I was so that was one of my favorite ones to do but the reason what the appeal of The whole yoga workout was getting to shavasana shavasana

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Okay. Yeah Good enough. Yeah, so but it was interesting too because I had no idea that it was the corpse pose

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Especially when in its origins and relations to India So I remember just talking about it casually when we're just in the five minutes that we have a

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Doreen and part three of Bethel in the New Age, and I remember when she told me that I My mouth dropped open.

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I had no idea but the draw of just getting to that feeling of just Emptying myself, you know, there's aspects of the honestly

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I think that are the were truly physical because you're working strenuously in the same way If you run up a mountain you're gonna be huffing and puffing your blood's gonna be pumping

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But I generally wonder if now in hindsight of those times where you're there with a bunch of other people if there was in fact something that was

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You know there and it's just one of the things especially knowing knowing the origins and stuff, too I think you bring up a good point

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I mean that that what that was the sole purpose of doing the awesome a practice to get you to that state and Who knows you're right.

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What did it open up? Right? I I just I really cringe when I think of it now.

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I mean I Do but yeah, and I guess and again what I want to do too

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Is you want to think through this just biblically because you know, some people are asking, you know Well, well, will this open up?

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Will this conjure up demons or will this allow me to get demonically possessed and you know It's one of the things we're like,

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I don't know. I mean if you open the gate Do I know what's going to go through but I don't know but the reality says

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God just says don't Don't cross these boundaries. Don't open these doors. So there's levels in which in the same way that I would say like you wouldn't have

26:01

You wouldn't have like a Ouija board in your house, right? Just just something that's decorative or you wouldn't have it's just a board game

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Yeah, it's just it's just a board game or tarot cards Like I just have those just some cards and then they got they have some cool like looking paintings on him

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Like there's an aspect you understand the biblical worldview. This is something that God says don't do and isn't it interesting to that?

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one of the big commands in In Romans and it talks about presenting your body as as a living

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Sacrifice holy and blameless before the Lord holy and blameless before the Lord and it just so happens that it's almost every single religion requires some sort of Sacrificial or giving over of your body, right?

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So in other words, this is I would say that the yoga practices was was really the

26:46

Hindu version of prevention Present your body as his living sacrifice. Yeah, it's a submission you've seen the poses. Yeah.

26:52

Wow. Yeah Powerful, you know You know you

27:01

Do we know we don't know Does the devil come to kill steal and destroy and deceive?

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Absolutely what I can tell you for that whole time I've been in it I had met more people who after doing yoga many many men in this aspect either wanting to completely change their life after some yoga classes getting divorced or affairs going on or Divorcing and the whole family structure falling apart

27:34

Yes things happen that that's that is I won't even name names, but it's it's out there and it happens a lot.

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So it's again so subtle Oh, well, that's not from yoga, you know again week Everything they're gonna say is well, you can't tie that to yoga.

27:51

Um, I yeah, I can I've I've had three men tell me Yeah, I won't ever do yoga class again after two classes

27:59

I decided I didn't love my wife and I divorced her and I went and it's scary shit scary stuff

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You know, and I mean they were just being real honest so and then many women to I Again, so you don't know and you're so under a veil of fog.

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I feel so good No, of course you do you're being stroked by this

28:21

This deceiver. Yeah. Yes, you are Yeah, it's a it's a it's a heavy one to think about especially to and we're getting posed with a question

28:30

We're getting asked questions specifically by Christian people asking if they can become Possessed or maybe demonically possessed by doing yoga.

28:38

I'd say well greater is he who's within you than he who's in the world, right? But where does your conviction come from? It should come from the

28:44

Lord and Ezekiel 36 chapter 27 this is what it says about regeneration

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It says and I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes to carefully observe my ordinances

28:57

What are some of God's ordinances? Well, we can go to Deuteronomy Chapter 18 and this is what it says

29:03

It says when you enter the land The Lord your God is giving you be careful not to imitate the detestable customs of the nation's living there

29:10

Then there's a list right of these detestable customs. It's not exactly an exhaustive list, right?

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But it's many of the ones that the Lord finds as an abomination before his eyes, right? So the question is is that Why would you want to pursue something?

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That is not spiritually healthy for you. That's actually at war with God What's one of the practices of the pagans?

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Why would you want to imitate it? You know, yeah, you can't become Possessed but you can be up oppressed.

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You can slow your sanctification in your relationship with the God with with With God growing more in the image of Christ through suffering.

29:49

Are you gonna experience those things? I'd say it would slow those things down You know so Though you may not become possessed.

30:00

It doesn't give give someone the Liberty to practice a pagan a pagan custom in a sense

30:07

Does that does that make sense and I kind of pose a question to you Jerry to this is one of the questions that We got from the one of our

30:15

Facebook posts. It does say this It says where does the law of Liberty come in right in Romans with the explanation of the food?

30:23

Eating sacrifice food sacrifice to idols. Well one I'd want to say we look at with any well first of all if we're gonna

30:30

We're talking about food Well, first of all Well, if you want to know a lot of times a good thing if you want to eat healthy is to look at the ingredients

30:38

Think about that not just eating food, but you want to be healthy you want to have you the food supposed to be good

30:44

To you. What's the purpose? What's the purpose of food? It's supposed to replenish you It's supposed to cure that hunger to allow you to you know, continue throughout your day

30:52

There are you know, there's there's a difference between having a jelly donut Versus having a kale shake.

31:00

There's difference in regards to like it's just food. Is it is it healthy? So I guess where I'm I don't that's the best analogy

31:07

But when it comes to the law of Liberty, you need to understand like what actually is it that you're consuming? And so yeah,

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I think the first thing is that you know as a goal and for Christians you need to think critically but also

31:19

Understand what what is what is it that I'm actually doing? Like where does this come from? you know, I think there's a

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Verse and Proverbs says it's the glory of Kings to seek out a matter And so you want to look at it truly

31:30

I would say research it thoroughly. You'll look at the history We'll post more stuff on our social media and we didn't go we could do also do a whole podcast

31:39

We did more prep time on just the his just the origins in India on it

31:44

We only briefly glossed over it. I would say Research it thoroughly.

31:49

Look at the history behind the origins of it. Don't take our word for it It would say it's an it's an inherently spiritual practice

31:58

And again, you want to just ask yourself? the body, you know, it talks about The body the

32:04

Bible does talk about physical discipline, right? So there's aspects where that is good It's a good beautiful and wonderful thing, but it also talks about not being unequally yoked

32:14

And not have and don't I don't do idolatry like don't go after other gods, right?

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So you just want to ask yourself look at the read do the research look at No, don't you look at the practice yoga?

32:27

Look up look at the spiritual gurus the people who are actually practicing Hindus look at what they're doing and ask yourself

32:34

Can you genuinely do that? Again, I'm not going to play Holy Spirit with someone

32:39

I would just say look at that and I'll just seek the Lord about it and look at that. That would be my answer

32:44

Yeah, what it makes me think about too is what was Paul actually practicing the ritual? Was he going in there and practicing the ritual?

32:52

Is he just eating some of the meat, right? I don't think he's going in there practicing the ritual and with regards to the weaker brother

32:58

Why would it make him stumble if he sees him eating the the meat from the set from the the ritual?

33:03

Well, because maybe he thinks Paul then is actually allowed to pursue a pagan ritual

33:10

That's why yeah, right. So what's the pursuing of the pagan ritual to imitate pagan practices cough -cough yoga?

33:18

right like We have the freedom now in Christ to not be bound

33:24

This is this is where our Liberty comes in we have the freedom to not be bound as a slave to sin or a

33:31

Yoked with an entity that is the exact opposite of the biblical

33:37

Definition of who God says he is and how you can have peace with God. That's our freedom

33:43

That we have in Christ, right not to actually pursue the rituals

33:49

Yeah. Yeah, I You know, I want to tag on to both of you and simply saying if these

33:56

Christian people who've asked that question, you know How much time do you spend if you're currently doing a yoga practice?

34:04

How much time do you spend in a week in a yoga practice or a day? And how much time are you in your

34:09

Bible and how much time are you really studying and researching in the

34:14

Bible? What Jesus says? I mean I think that's one of the things that just struck me because you're we were given so many books to read from and learn and And It just took me away.

34:26

I just what you fill your mind with You're gonna start to see things, you know coming through that are reflective of that So I would ask that Christian person, you know

34:37

Yeah, you need to spend more time in the Bible and I say that lovingly Yeah, excellent.

34:43

So let's just let's do this. Let's spend a couple. Let's spend the last couple minutes Just trying to answer a couple questions that people have asked.

34:49

This is actually I think a fantastic question because again you're You have a lot of expertise on Physiology physical fitness and a lot of aspects outside of yoga.

34:58

So I think this is a probably one of the best questions I've seen Posted this person asked us as many yoga poses slash stretches

35:07

Have been incorporated into physical therapy programs for recovering from injuries and also physical therapy programs designed for injury prevention

35:15

Some of these programs do not mention that it's a yoga pose They basically say do this stretch it works this muscle group and This is how it will help you slash prevent injury

35:26

So I guess my question is if someone is doing a recovery slash injury prevention workout or program with a few yoga poses

35:34

Without knowing it. It's still stolen slash modified from yoga Is it still wrong to participate even though there's no spiritual aspect whatsoever?

35:43

So yeah, and that's a good question and I was mentioning at the beginning of the podcast I just noticed that there is um

35:49

I started doing some some stretching and I was following a YouTube workout video and all of a sudden it had me do

35:55

That was like a cobra pose and that's halfway into him like oh, that's a yoga pose And for a second, I was like confused like wait, is this they're not coming across that It just happened to be incorporated and I don't even think the people who did it had any intentions of doing so But um, but anyways with that question, that's a good load of question.

36:11

I think it's perfect for your expertise So, how would you answer that just yourself given what you know? Like I I would love to answer that and that is an excellent question and I kind of giggle in so far as You're assuming and you just stated it as well.

36:26

You're assuming that physical therapy brought in a yoga pose You're assuming that that person brought in a yoga pose.

36:34

But if you look back and I've talked with Physical therapists

36:40

I've worked with them my whole practice They will tell you and I talk about I've talked about yoga with them we went through the whole thing the history of physical therapy those those will

36:53

I'm gonna call them a Physical stance that I put my body in has been around forever and each

37:04

These these yoga people have taken it and made it into their awesome as labeled it identified it tagged it

37:11

So I know that the physical therapy association what they've that board has been around and since the 1800s

37:20

They've been doing these before yoga the way when you're telling me yoga pasta even was in the

37:25

States So to put the body in a natural position that we know

37:31

Releases the certain muscle that is tight or needs to be rehabbed or needs to go through the range of motion

37:36

We're going to be using that Yoga actually they have been utilizing a lot of that and this is very

37:44

Americanized then and westernized It's like we think that the physical therapists are doing yoga. No, it's you got to consider.

37:52

It's not that way Now what would you should you go and do and stand and balance on one leg and you're rehabbing?

38:00

Absolutely, you know you were saying something, you know about Jesus, you know You you're it's where's your heart and you're doing it with a physical therapist and and I don't want to freak people out and think you can't you know, stretch a body in a certain way

38:16

I'm always moving. Oh, yeah body. So it becomes no We need you to be aware of the physical practice of yoga

38:27

Absolutely, that is an abomination But God says you're God built us

38:32

God built this incredible body that was meant to move And it gets tight at times because we overuse and depending on this westernized society so if you feel you need to stretch and I start to go like that because my right side hurts and literally it does right

38:47

Now and I stretch that and you go. Ah, that's a yoga pose. Well, excuse me I'm moving my body and if you're calling me out on that You don't know my heart and you don't know where I am.

38:58

I don't mean that to get this confused at all, right? I'm saying that physical therapists have been doing their prescribed routines since the 1800s

39:08

So what's the yoga pose? Correct me where the you're standing we may have looked at the image where you're standing on one leg and you're grabbing the back of Your leg and you're stretching it back as far as you can like like a bow.

39:20

Yeah, what's that? What's the name of the yoga? What's the name of that yoga pose? Well, it depends on the lineage. You're in right?

39:26

That was a that was a bow pose because you're like a bow and right right there. So done

39:34

But it was a bow pose, okay, so yeah, you're just asking about that or well, yeah

39:39

Well, just that for example, that's just well, I guess the point is that it's one yoga pose that In regards to the lineage it's still some aspect of yoking or lineage to to a

39:51

Hindu Yes at the end of the day. That is a correct statement Yes, each each each position you see a physical therapist put you in and you say that's a yoga pose

40:00

Well, yeah, they'll have a name to that and that that practice Worships that God and they these guys worship a different God because they've come from different gurus.

40:09

So yes that happens But the you know physical the physical therapists they understand the benefit of the breath and the calm and just to get a

40:22

Person go through but they do a lot of that in their in their facilities

40:27

I mean I've worked with them. So they're gonna have you balance someone like what look at the athletes, you know

40:33

You got to balance on one leg to strengthen it, etc. But it's the focus your intent where you're from and Those those have been around Before yeah.

40:43

No, that's a good. That's a good. That's that's a great answer and it's good And one thing I wanted to kind of bounce off of that too

40:49

Is that for example a yoga pose where you're in the bow position like in contrast, you know, you're doing things that You'd say you you're getting health benefits

40:59

You'll be getting health benefits is talking You might be stretching the organs or you might be doing these sorts of you might be have like some sort of balancing act

41:07

Right, so but it again it's it's a byproduct that pose is it isn't isn't like they're the strategy

41:15

I mean, that's a bite that whole pose is a byproduct of a whole worldview. That's Antithetical that's that is against Christ.

41:23

Yes, that is that is promoting idolatry like that's where I come from That's a that's a fallout of that.

41:29

I mean every single rule every religion demands its worship and allegiance This is the byproduct of what that is and like I said when

41:36

I think of physical fitness, I mean I love the fact that when whenever I've gone to we have a

41:41

Chiropractor at church when I've gone there and she explains what is happening Like why this line how how the body works together and how something?

41:51

that is often one of your vertebrae spines will affect an impingement in your shoulder or possibly your foot and It just amazes me

42:00

This amazing body that God has created like what the Imago Dei like actually is and it's it's wonderful thing

42:07

And you think about like one of my favorite workout Piece of workout equipment is a BOSU ball, right?

42:13

And I love the ability for example, you're standing on a BOSU ball and you're standing on one leg You're having wobbles like half a medicine ball and you're standing you're stabilizing it

42:21

You're trying to lift and so your whole body is trying to adjust and you're trying to balance and you're working all these muscles

42:27

And it's like wow, this is just amazing the way that God made our bodies in this wonderful way so there's nothing wrong with that is it's a matter of having that difference and again, when it comes down like a lot of these questions are really about the found of the biblical worldview like what

42:44

Everyone where all of us are worshipers, right? And so the question so the question is

42:50

Look at the foundation of yoga. Like what is it? It's Fundamentally worship.

42:58

There's no way you can get around that and this is just the extension of Presenting your your bodies as a living sacrifice.

43:05

The question is look at the origins come because all the a lot of these questions are Just all of them seem to be focused in on the physical aspects

43:13

Yeah, so I would say look at the origins because the physical aspects are just a byproduct of What this is saying?

43:20

So Yeah, it makes me think of like makes me think of this just to put it to put it this way

43:26

So if it's a religious thing, right if there's theological implications to yoga let's say this you wake up and You get on your priestly garbs your nice little workout

43:41

Outfit that you have separated from the rest your holy workout outfit. You grab your mat

43:47

You get in your car You have separated time out of your day to head to this specific location where you gather with other people in their holy garbs

43:56

You walk into that place You roll out your worship mat you get on In your poses, sorry,

44:05

I'm not a very good yoga person I don't really know but and then you go ahead and you have your allotted time where you get spiritual regeneration and You walk out feeling refreshed and ready to take on the world

44:20

What have you just done? you literally have just worshipped

44:25

So in the terms of what I was hearing about physical therapy It's it's it's like this.

44:33

So you were saying essentially that they've created new routines Now after being in the

44:39

Americas probably let's say for the last Mmm, I think the late 1800s and then the early 1900s that yoga was really coming to America's in full speed and They've created new routines now to match more things that the biomedical industry has already deemed as safe things to use

44:56

So there always are new poses coming out by other gurus what you're saying, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's traditional yoga poses

45:04

Right. So if you go and you look at yoga poses and you're someone who is injured Is a physical therapist gonna make you put your leg

45:11

Over your head and pull it to the utmost extreme or make your body look like a pretzel or a triangle

45:17

No, you're gonna hurt yourself It's a you got to really think about what what's going on in the situation, right?

45:24

Yeah So one of the that's a great point excellent point and one other question that was also

45:32

Again, a lot of the other questions were almost sort of sub relate to the whole aspect of it's of a stretching physical component

45:37

But I think you did that last analysis was really excellent. And so I thought it was fantastic One of the other main questions was can

45:45

Christians practice yoga more specifically what about Christian yoga and So that's a good question, too

45:53

And I would just say I'll just say this because I'm again I've been hit I've been trying to hammer down the point that it's fundamentally a spiritual practice a

46:02

Un -christian spiritual practice that's what it fundamentally is and it's fundamentally spiritual in nature.

46:08

So here's the question There are a lot of Christian athletes out there. There's there's Christian. I mean there's

46:13

Christians who play basketball There's a basketball you have CrossFit you have You know different all sorts of different types of workouts sports different types of fitness that are out there

46:24

Why is this? Why does yoga have to be Christian? Why does it have to be Christian yoga? Like what white there's a re

46:31

I would say there's there's a reason it has there's a reason why they have to do that Because it's fundamentally spiritual.

46:39

It's fundamentally worship So the Christian yoga, there's a reason why they have to put the label

46:44

Christian in front of it Because they can't escape the fact that it's fundamentally spiritual right and they know it they're not saying stretching

46:52

Right, like you said they have to put the term Christian in front of it So almost almost the fact that it's just stretching the fact that the that there's

46:59

Christian yoga Almost refutes the claim because when you look at any of the Christian yoga websites In fact,

47:04

I have one in front of me I'll point in a second is that they are appealing to it as a fundamentally spiritual practice and you can't get away from that So it's almost the idea is just stretching the existence of these

47:16

Christian yoga Clinics almost in many ways from just an evidentiary standpoint refutes that claim

47:22

So I want to actually read this this is about Yahweh yoga I read I read this to you during the podcast So you can kind of give me your perspective on this.

47:31

This is the about section. This is that Yahweh yoga .com So there's always different, you know

47:37

I think they always had to come up with some sort of creative name that you'll see in many of the sort of Christian yoga here yoga

47:43

Institutions, this is just from their website. This is the mission statement. This is the mission and vision of the

47:49

Yahweh yoga It says the mission is to reach invite and inspire and train as many people as possible to experience personal health and inner peace more deeply through the practice of Yahweh yoga and to help others do the same our vision statement is to increase the kingdom of Jesus Christ by establishing and providing and maintaining a

48:09

Christian yoga studio and teaching Academy that honors God in all business and ministry endeavors.

48:17

Yahweh yoga seeks to empower Men and women to de -stress to grow in their relationship with Jesus Christ and to improve their mind body and spirit by providing

48:26

Various types and levels of yoga classes healthy living workshops helpful DVDs and books and organic products

48:33

Opportunities to take streaming classes online at our shop. A lot of people probably doing that these days with a coronavirus

48:40

And also to train and develop accredited yoga teachers to duplicate these excellent

48:45

Christ centered yoga classes throughout the United States and overseas offer students the highest level of distinction and safety as licensed private post -secondary education institution and with a registered yoga school with yoga alliance

49:01

So just give me your thoughts It just seems it's an oxymoron

49:09

Christian yoga Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh There is no that is a holy holy name

49:18

You just paired it with yoga, which is to yoke or bring together the union of the body of the mind with a spirit

49:26

It's an oxymoron. I don't see anything Good in that.

49:31

I mean, I I'm I'm I'm angry. I mean when When you want to pair a

49:39

Hindu based Religion with God why I go let me ask you a question

49:46

Why what is it that you need that you want to pair God and Christ in with this

49:53

Hindu religion? You answer that don't me I don't need to answer your question the Bible does right and if you're in the

50:01

Bible like that that Stated in the about us then by golly, you'd know Deuteronomy 18.

50:06

Yeah, and on and on And yeah with the yoga Alliance, would you say with any familiar are you familiar with that very familiar with the yoga lines?

50:15

Yes, what what's the prominent worldview or philosophy that's taught within the yoga Alliance? I mean they're seeking accreditation through the yoga

50:22

Alliance, but well, you know very quickly You know, I brought up before that physical therapy has a regulatory body as does every you know medical

50:31

I went through that before the yoga Alliance. There is no Regulation on that Nonprofit organization there is no one going in there and telling them and making sure everything is okay

50:44

There is nothing they are free -for -all. Anybody could go in there and do

50:50

Anything and it's it's if I I highly highly recommend if you are a yoga student

50:56

And if you're a yoga teacher you go now on to their website and you look at what is posted at the very top

51:02

That's all I will say it is it is an unregulated Entity that is that everybody thinks they have to go to when they don't there because it's not required a gym might say we need certification or a studio might say

51:17

We need certification and you've gone through your 200 hours And oh this this entity called yoga

51:23

Alliance proves that I've done that and that's now my my my my credential

51:29

There's nothing behind it, right? Let me tell you if you're a Christian and let's say you you proudly say you're part of the yoga

51:37

Alliance in this Yahweh Yoga, this is an event that they're hosting. Let me just read to you some of the description

51:44

Let's see if I can pronounce this right Pratyahara The fifth limb of yoga is the practice of using the senses to access the deepest layers of consciousness

51:50

So the lasting changes can occur within us in this class participants or participants Practiced gentle Hatha yoga while weaving and longer holds deep rhythmic breathing and Pratyahara Sounds great

52:02

Sounds definitely sounds like something a Christian would want to be associated with right and yeah And again, the question is when you look at it fundamentally this whole conversation is

52:10

What is what does God say about? spiritual practices to access knowledge

52:18

Outside of him. What does God call that? That's that's the question. What does God say about other spiritual practices outside of what he says is good and holy

52:27

You call it God, yeah, God calls it abominable And so and so the question is is that you can't can you mix together?

52:35

Can you you can't mix together? What is what is tarnished with what is holy? You can't you can't you can't separate the two so in the same way when he's talking about When this website is talking about and again, these people might even be

52:48

Christians and they're just not really and again I'm not trying to condemn them I just I'm just giving them as an example as a whole of a broader conversation

52:56

But I guess we have to ask the question when they're making the claim though that we can use yoga to Enhance or get have a closer relationship with Jesus Christ How can you how can you you how can you have a relationship with Jesus Christ by by a practice that Jesus Christ died for that basically say that this is the only way to access the heavenlies in a way that that I mean

53:23

This is and I'm paraphrasing it but this is what something Walter Martin said in in Kingdom of the

53:31

Kingdom of the occult. He said that if If it if it require if accessing the heaven the heavenly realms required

53:42

God to Sacrifice his own son on the cross in order to Get past hell's dimensions essentially again

53:52

I'm paraphrasing it that it should be avoided at all costs like the access the ability to access

53:57

The gap between us that all these other pagan religions had tried to get to cross and attain knowledge from but through satanic power

54:05

It was accomplished through Christ as far as the only way what they are striving to do because people are made in the image of God they're strived to worship, but they're worshipping the creature rather than the

54:14

Creator and Satan has taken advantage of that through all of these different pagan practices and that's that's the reality and so there's no way you can't

54:24

Use a practice that is meant to yoke with a demonic entity because again You just biblically top biblically speaking.

54:31

It talks about behind every idol. There's a there's a demon demons and idolatry or Paraphrasing that we can give a whole index if we wanted to That's what so we have to be focused in on here and that that's the point of this whole

54:43

Conversations just laser is definitely laser focusing on that. That's huge bro. And it reminds me of this too

54:49

It's like oh man, man. God is just such a he's just so Such a fun killer doesn't want me to do yoga, you know doesn't want me to access this information these spiritual realms

54:59

God's such a fun killer well no, actually he's protecting you because he loves you and cares about you and if you think that yoga as this abomination that God Right, like Jerry said died on the cross to save us from himself

55:11

Let me ask you that if that's redeemable if that's a redeemable practice Can you go ahead and just use a Ouija board to contact

55:16

Jesus? Can you go ahead and sacrifice your children to the glory of God These are all abominations to the to the

55:24

Lord of Glory. Can you practice divination to the glory of God? Why are you holding this on a different level?

55:30

What's so strongly about it that that you hold so strongly to that? You don't want to give up that that's that's the question

55:36

I I want to jump in on this too Jesus tells us

55:41

I am the way I am the truth and I am the light I Pulled this out of Wikipedia.

55:50

Okay, just Yoga is a form of experimental mysticism the

55:55

Hindu religion again, you cannot pair Christ Yahweh with yoga and That's it's that's an idolatry

56:09

Abomination Yeah Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, I think that's a good point

56:15

So I think this is I think this is really kind of a good almost sort of introductory as far as like where we stand And again what

56:21

I want to say to I mean, there's there's people who are gonna listen to listen to this And I think I'm very strong and passionate about my point and again

56:29

But what I want to say if if you're kind of like, you know If I'll call you skip if you're skepticals on if you're not buying what

56:36

I'm saying or if you're just still holding on You know still have whatever your objections are to it

56:41

You know and you're a Christian like I'm not here. My goal is here is not to condemn you what

56:46

I want to say is just I want to just lovingly challenge you to think critically and When it talks about not being conformed to this world

56:55

But be transformed by the renewing of your mind and also you think about taking every single thought captive You know think about that.

57:01

You want to be able to think critically We want to analyze the world around us and find out what is good and what is bad and God's Word is the objective standard so I would say do your research think critically look at the origins and history of yoga look at what it is and I Don't see any other conclusion asides from they would it's fundamentally.

57:21

It's fundamentally a spiritual practice with Physical components as a byproduct of that and you just have to ask your question

57:29

Can I do this filled with the Holy Spirit being the temple of God?

57:34

Can you be yoked with something that is antithetically opposed to it? and all in exalts

57:42

Deities and practices ultimately that lead into something that God calls an abomination that's the

57:48

I think that's the question you have to you really have to ask when you like look at it and understand it and if you wouldn't light a scripture and just Like I said,

57:57

I'm gonna leave that up to you It's not my it's not my job to play Holy Spirit or try and like guilt -tripper over you

58:02

Well, it's like what's like the Ned Flanders where he's like Jesus is watching, you know Yeah, like from The Simpsons like I want to do that These are the fat look at the fat just the facts

58:11

You know and look at it. That's that's my challenge. So that's all I got to say. It's good Any final thoughts we got to wrap things up here.

58:18

We've been going a while. I have a final thought So sorry, I think it's just a good thing to say. I mean it says

58:24

God says this in Deuteronomy 18 verse 13. It says you shall be blameless before the

58:29

Lord your God This is after his condemnation on the pagan practices that the Canaanites were doing

58:35

He says this is what happens to them for these nations, which you are about to dispossess Listen to fortune -tellers and to diviners

58:42

But as for you the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this the land is spitting them out the

58:47

Lord is taking away from them the land to give to the People of God because they practice these things what happens when the church starts practicing these things look at our society today

58:57

Look what's going on? We need to repent and we need to be holy and blameless before the

59:03

Lord about relying on the Lord Jesus Christ I'm listening and obeying what he says not

59:09

I mean, we're not perfect. We're not legalists, right? But yeah, we have clear Direction through scripture and we should definitely obey it.

59:17

I'll add another one Colossians 3 Whatever you do work at it with all your heart as working for the

59:23

Lord not for human masters Since you know that you will receive inheritance from the

59:29

Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving Amen, there you go.

59:36

Yes, it's a good way to wrap things up Christine you have been you have been boatload of joy and And fun, so it is made it very much very well worthwhile

59:47

I feel like finally as we progress I've gotten a little more more energized and focused and that's just something about Camaraderie and and having a conversation even spite of in spite of a few short hours of sleep.

59:58

So Thank you again so much for coming on and I really appreciate your heart and it just and it goes to show you never know

01:00:05

The ripple effect, you know, you're up here telling your testimony being sincere You never know the ripple effect that you're going to have because you know you think about it

01:00:13

Doreen was on dream virtue. She was on a podcast she listens in and I see her interacting with it with even like our social media posts and things like that and There's been a lot of people both in our that have commented it's in this messages and and even people who have a previous guest

01:00:28

Who were very highly influenced by her coming to Christ and now having that amazing change of heart in which

01:00:35

I have so much Gratitude and appreciation force and she has had the ripple effect on you on even a lot of a previous guest

01:00:42

So it just is going here. So you just being sincere and sharing your heart just want to encourage you You never know how far that's going to go as as this conversation is going to go all across the world so All that being said including speaking of all going across the world.

01:00:54

We now have been with cultish We've been around for almost two years. Now. We're kind of you're getting up towards our two -year anniversary

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Being a husband to an amazing wife and she's awesome. Okay, so there's a shout -out for you Thanks for taking care of Andrew when he's not here

01:01:27

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