Should Parents Teach Their Kids to Punch Back?

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What I think they mean is just when someone hits you the one time You hit him back harder

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Their house will stand Welcome to Bible bashed where we aim to equip the

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Saints for the work of ministry by answering the questions You're not allowed to ask. We're your host Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett and today

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We'll answer the age -old question Should parents teach their kids to punch back?

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Now Tim as we open up this conversation that seems to be You know a common theme throughout parenting trying to teach your kids about how to handle physical altercations with other children

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What Bible verse do you have related to the subject? Yes, so Matthew 5 39 says but I say to you do not resist the one who is evil

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But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek turn to him the other also Okay, so Basically, no, don't fight back

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Okay, you didn't say that all right, so so explain it a little more for us then

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Yeah, I mean in order to understand what this passage is saying you do have to make certain distinctions between different kinds of Physical contact.

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So right now you're living in a world that basically Collapses everything that could be called physical contact under the language of assault, right?

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Mm -hmm. So I mean even words even words today are described as attacks. So You know, you have a lot of things that are put into the same kind of category

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I mean for many people words are violence even so yeah, if you say something mean to them, then you know, you could punch him back and Possibly get him thrown into jail.

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So there's that but yeah, I mean thinking about that though even like when you when you get to issues where People one person is laying like making angry contact with another person, right?

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Whether it's related to pushing or punching or slapping or Stabbing, you know, all of them are put in a similar category

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Essentially that they're all treated as if they're a crime and then that crime should be punishable probably by jail time

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Or you know something like that. So yeah, we were living in a society that isn't really able to make

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Distinctions between different kinds of physical contact. So when you read a passage like this, you may not really intuitively know what to do

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Now if you're if you're reading it in a straightforward way and then you collapse Every single kind of physical conduct our contact into the same kind of category

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Then you may adopt a very pacifist kind of stance. Okay, like meaning it, you know if if You may read this verse that says but I say do you do not resist the one who is evil?

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But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek turn to him the other also you may read that to say if anyone stabs

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You on the right cheek, then you turn to him the other cheek also like meaning, you know, anything that could be considered violent in any way you

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You put it in the same category and the answer is non -resistance But then yeah,

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I think in order to understand a passage like this You really do have to understand it in its context and understand what particular kind of physical contact is it talking about and You know make application to other

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Situations by virtue of other passages and other principles in the Bible if that makes sense. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of physical? You know in this verse specifically that you're bringing up.

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What kind of physical interaction is Jesus talking about Yes, so the

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ESV is rendering the word here as slap, right? So if someone if anyone slaps you on the right cheek turns in the other also the

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KJV says But I say unto you that ye resist not evil but whosoever shall smite thee on the right on thy right cheek turn to him

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The other also so, you know part of it. I think the slap Translation is somewhat instructive as to what we're talking about But then like the idea of slapping on the right cheek

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Does give a lot more clarity to people who? Are right -handed right as compared to wrong -handed

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I mean the vast majority of the world is right -handed So if you were to slap someone on the right cheek what you would be doing would be trying to embarrass them

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That's like that's a backhand, right? so if you're a backhand someone you used to be live in the world that would understand that that was not a

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Form of physical contact contact that Well Communicated essentially that you were trying to kill them.

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Does it sure sure like that their life was in danger Like if you were if you backhand someone, you know, if you're slapping him on the you backhand them, right slap on the right side

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The pimp slap slap if the heart if that's what you're doing, you're trying to embarrass someone

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Right, right. So you're trying to embarrass them. You're trying to degrade them. You're trying to humiliate them

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Now men like generally if someone slaps you you have You know, you have a natural impulse to go to blows, right?

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It's you know, it's time for fisticuffs here, right this is a Like don't nobody do me like that You know

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Them's them's be fighting words and all that. So yeah, I think in general men have an impulse to defend their honor and if you're going to Debase them in public right by trying to humiliate them

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Then the pagan understanding of that is there's some kind of moral Responsibility that you have to basically not be mistreated to defend your honor right, so in a shame honor society that would have been a act of public shaming and then you would have a

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Yeah, you would have a responsibility to defend your reputation your honor by Retaliating essentially, right?

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So then what you have here is Jesus saying don't retaliate for that Does that make sense?

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Yeah. Yeah, so either there's any number of I think there's any number of bullying encounters where You need to use that word

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You know that icky kind of word that we're trying to respond in horror from yeah I mean, there's any number of encounters like that that could happen that may not be communicating

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I'm gonna kill you, right? So, I mean growing up. Yeah, I mean you have bullies who would you know do their bullying and all that But I mean it may involve the bully just pushing you right something like that So you can imagine the bully coming up to someone and just pushing them, you know

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Like maybe even smacking them or whatever, but then they're standing there. Their posture is not communicating

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I'm taking this to the next level. There's no a knife is about to come out, right? You're not necessarily being curb -stomped on the ground, you know, so like you watch a lot of the videos today

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With the bullies that are happening and they're very different than the kind of bullying that I remember growing up I can't make these are you know,

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I'm trying to kill you kind of bully Over and against I'm trying to embarrass you encounters

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So, you know, none of it's good. But you know right now when you see these videos of You know groups of people basically crowding around someone kicking them, you know kicking them in the head, you know things like that when they're knocked out and unconscious curb -stomping, you know that kind of stuff just Wailing on someone, you know over and over and over again.

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I'm not saying that didn't happen before I'm just trying to say that there was like right now. It seems to be escalating

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Straight to I'm trying to kill you mode like in a way that growing up there was degrees of these

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I mean you might have to like what growing up you'd have when you have someone bullying someone you might have like Hey, they're fighting back kind of moments, right?

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Like to where it's an equal footing and both people or I mean they're ticked off at each other, but they're you know

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I don't know one was in danger of like being in a coma and having severe brain damage or something like that In the same kind of way, you know, but today it's normally you have someone who is

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Wailing on someone who is completely unprepared to fight doesn't even know what fighting is

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Has never been punched before punched anyone before right? They're just passively taking it over and over and over and over again

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Yeah, so I think in just the point here is just to say you we used to have categories for escalating of physical conduct our contact in the beginning category being

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Like an embarrassment kind of thing and that's what this is talking about like a shame embarrassment kind of thing in that kind of Situation.

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No, I mean they just you know, take the loss man, you know So are you basically just trying to make it does you're you're saying the

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Bible it is assuming that we understand a distinction between essentially like vengeance versus self -defense

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Is that sure that what you're getting at here like vengeance meaning hey, I'm a you've dishonored me in some way

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You know, you've challenged me maybe and in some public way and now

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I'm going to get back at you you know for challenge me challenging me in that way versus you know a situation where you have have the

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Person just getting completely wailed on kicked in the head curb stomped, you know stabbed whatever you want to say

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And they're they're fighting back Because they understand this is a fight, you know for my own safety.

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Is that what you're getting at? Yeah I mean so the slap language and then on the right side on the right cheek language is describing a very specific kind of act

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Which should be pretty understandable to people, you know, and then when you think about The Sixth Commandment the

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Sixth Commandment is relevant to this topic as well, so It You know, the

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Sixth Commandment is thou shalt not murder But then, you know, if you look this up on you know, Baptist catechism org, you know the question number 73

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It says what is required of the Sixth Commandment? And the answer is the Sixth Commandment requireth all lawful endeavors to preserve our own life in the life of others

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Mm -hmm, you know and I mean this is just reflective of a biblical worldview over and over again as you read the

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Bible You'll realize that there is a doctrine of self -defense In that doctrine of self -defense is related to You know all lawful endeavors to preserve one's own life and the life of others

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So, you know, you have the Jews at various points in particular. I mean just read the book of Esther They predict there's a plot that has been hatched to destroy the

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Jews And so Esther asked the king for permission for the Jews to defend themselves And so that was that God put her in that situation, you know

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Mordecai tells her in order to preserve life, right? and so like the whole point of the story is that they like God answered their prayers for self -defense and they were allowed to take up They couldn't reverse the law right because the law had already been made and there's no rescinding it

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But they were allowed to defend themselves and defend themselves. They did you know, you look through the Bible you'll see that You know in Ezra Nehemiah They in Nehemiah in particular what you'll find is there's enemies surrounding them

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So they posted a guard right and they prayed so yeah They're building the wall with the sword and in one of their hands as they're building, right?

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Right, right Yeah, and so I mean Jesus tells his followers at different points to go and buy swords Because there's a difference between you know dying to mindless purposeless

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You know evil and being persecuted for your faith, right? so like if someone is gonna take your life for the gospel and Like like a lawful authority is gonna take your life for the gospel and they have you you know

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There's nothing you do about it You don't need to pull Peter and pull your sword out and try to chop their ear off or something

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You should be willing to suffer for the name of Christ but I mean you just some random robbers on the road who just want to kill you and take your money and you know,

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Throw you on a side of a ditch. I mean there's there's no sense in all that, right? So yeah, the sixth commandment requires all lawful endeavors to preserve your life and the life of others

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That's an entailment of the sixth commandment that I think is right for sure

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Well, I you know, I was gonna ask yeah bringing up, you know Old Testament examples I think

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David might be another good example, you know, like if you look at first Samuel chapter 23 verses 1 through 5 it says

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Then they informed David saying behold the Philistines are fighting against Kayla and are plundering the threshing floors

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So David inquired of the Lord saying shall I go and attack these Philistines?

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And the Lord said to David go and attack the Philistines and save Kayla Yeah, it seems like it's seems like if the interpretation of of turn

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The other cheek is, you know, never respond with violence ever in any situation whatsoever

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Then God God is contradicting himself right here Yeah, God specifically says it yeah the same thing with like Abraham taking up arms to defend a lot, right?

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Right, right yeah, he go he goes and you know, he rescues his own family and whatnot and I guess

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I guess there is a question though and Maybe it's you know, maybe it's not really

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Related but I'm I'm assuming there might be someone out there wondering this, you know bringing up an example of David for example

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I mean God clearly tells him go attack the Philistines, right? But then at the same time, you know

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David wants to build a temple for the Lord and He tells

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David no because he's a man of bloodshed. So is that a is that roof, you know, is that?

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Reflective of passages like 1st Samuel 23 where he I mean he is going to shed blood

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He's going to go attack the Philistines and defend His people or is he reference is he referencing, you know other actions of David?

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Aside from something like this that has been specifically sanctioned by God No, I I think well,

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I think there's a lot to that passage Okay, and that's one major component of it But I think there's a lot to it as well

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Like meaning like David God is the God of us 80. God doesn't need anything from us. We don't offer anything to God in general so like we we can't

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Bless God like in the sense of add anything to him or give him anything that he needs or anything along those lines

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So David he wants to build God a house and God looks at him and says did I have

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I ever commanded you to do? This right? I've never commanded you to do this. I've never commanded you to build me a house, right?

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And in fact, I mean, I'm gonna build you a house so the whole point part of the whole point of that narrative is to say that God's saying

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I I'm gonna make an everlasting covenant with you and build you an eternal house You're not building me a house, right?

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Like I don't know from you. But I mean at the same time yeah, no, I'll let Solomon do it and Because you're a bloodthirsty man, and I do think that's because David was primarily known as a warmonger, right?

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I'm starting to finish so I mean you think about what David what you know brought David to fame or whatever is killing

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Goliath and All the you know, four skins of the Philistines and all that right in order to get a daughter

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Yes songs written about him slaying tens of thousands. Yeah, David Yes, all those slain his thousands

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David is, you know slain his tens of thousands and all that so yeah, I mean David's reputation is that of a you know, a war a warrior and That's not a rebuke on him.

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It's just to say that God Wants Solomon's reign to be characterized by peace not by war, right?

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And so he wants the building of a temple to be a symbol of peace not to be a symbol of conquest and war

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So it's not it's not a it's not a condemnation against David at that point.

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It's just a statement of purpose So if you were to build the temple Under the reign of David who was a you know,

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I mean that he's fighting the battles that they should have fought in the book of Joshua right, right

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I mean, they should have completely driven out the inhabitants of land in that way They shouldn't be fighting these battles, but they didn't listen to the

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Lord So David's having to clean up like do the cleanup operation now the Philistines are a thorn in their side for in perpetuity forever because they didn't obey and that was

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The lesson through Joshua and judges and all that but so you think about that? Yeah, this this definitely isn't

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Like a repudiation of war their war is That it has its proper place.

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It's just a matter of God does God is Jesus's Prince of Peace He's not wanting the temple to be

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It's a symbol of peace. It's not a symbol of conquest, right? So so don't so essentially what you're saying is don't take

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John Piper stance sure just because Jesus said

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You know if someone if someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also Yeah, I mean if someone wishes to rape your wife and just you know, let him rape her again, you know

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I mean, that's ridiculous So that's not what it's talking about at all Sixth Commandment requires all lawful endeavors to preserve her own life and the life of others

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That's what the Bible teaches. So yeah, I mean to answer the question then should you teach your kids to punch back?

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Well, I think I would teach my kids to willingly be embarrassed assuming that's what's happening, right?

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so And there's you know, you can escalate a situation in the moment.

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They smack you upside the head, you know, whatever you can Get mad and you know turn it into a brawl or whatever

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So this shouldn't be about preserving your dignity, but I'm not sure that most people right now the videos

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I'm watching You have a lot of people who are getting like sucker -punched when they're not looking and it goes from 0 to 60 right away

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And I would encourage my son in that kind of situation to go out swinging great

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Yeah, I mean because if you know that I mean you If you get knocked out

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You may have a group of people who were kicking you on the ground and end up with brain damage, you know

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Like or dead, you know, so I mean I've seen New story after new story out of big men and women, you know like young girls who are just getting beat on by multiple people and you know have a significant brain damage and killed even you know, because Yeah, they they just have no category for this type of aggression that has such a hair -trigger, you know

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With it. So yeah, I mean with my sons, I would say hey You know

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Always watch your back Know where you're at Make a reasonable inferences, right like make reasonable.

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I got use your brain I know you're not allowed to make generalities, but make all those generalities And you know always have situational awareness and if someone you know is taking this from 0 to 60 then yeah,

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I would I would tell them to get a you know, go after the biggest one and You know hit him as hard as you can and you know, see if you can scare off the rest of them, you know if nothing else like, you know

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See if he can hurt a few on the way out, you know, but who knows? Yeah I mean, so I think that's very different than I Say to you if anyone slaps you on the right cheek turn to another also, that's just different situations happens

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No, yeah, and it kind of seems like and my experience dealing with dealing with parents it seems like a lot of them kind of struggle with with Differentiating those two categories to their kids and my experience.

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It's been a lot of You know parents telling their children hey if some you know, if someone hits you you hit back and It's and it's unclear if they it's unclear at least to their children and normally it's it's unclear to me as well

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What they mean by that if they mean hey if someone if they mean what you're talking about like hey, you're

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I mean you're getting pummeled They're not stopping unless you stop unless you stop them.

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So you've got to try You know, they could mean that more likely what I think they mean is just when someone hits you the one time

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You hit him back harder, you know, and and and and the problem with that is and probably part of why

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Jesus said what he said in Matthew 5 is It doesn't seem like that really ever

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De -escalates the situation You know, it seems like that only ever makes it worse when it's a

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I mean you can you can punch someone and it not be like a What what you're describing the pummeling this comment, yeah,

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I well, I think the punch is somewhat significant in general, but I I can give you some stories at this point, so I mean growing up I I I Was in a few fights growing up None of which

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I started but then okay, there's no There's no one -size -fits -all

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Approach this I don't think okay. So meaning like they're There's one time that I was playing basketball and there was a guy who was

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Not intimidating at all to me, but he had He could say what he was not intimidating at all

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I was not even remotely afraid of him but he had a bad temper and so You know

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There was a time where he sucker -punched me And my thought after that was like he's really mad

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But that did not hurt at all right That was my thought my thought was that this did not hurt at all and If I let myself get me go there with it, you're in trouble, right?

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But I thought there's no There's no point to this, you know, so I just looked at him.

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I said I said man That didn't hurt It you need to figure out how far you want this to go

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Because because you're not gonna come out on you like this isn't gonna go well for you So you better calm down right kind of thing

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Yeah, so, I mean I didn't I didn't have a impulse. I didn't I wasn't intimidated by him

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I didn't think he had a reasonable chance of harming me. Sure, you know, so I chose a de -escalation tactic largely through just Taking it and you know saying something intimidating back, right?

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So I didn't feel like I need like if he would have kept going at me at that point right if he would have kept going at me

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I would have Thought well, I probably need to make an example I mean, I wasn't gonna let him well on my face, you know

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Even if I didn't hurt it because at some point he may get me and you know Get my nose or something like that. So that that wasn't gonna happen.

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I mean, but then there were other situations where you know guys who were

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Bigger and stronger or whatever are Coming after me and in those kind of situations.

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I never I never had to punch him But there are other ways to restrain people too, right?

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so I mean in those situations like I I I mean there were several times where I Restrained them very quickly

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It told them you need to give up, right? I'm gonna make it hurt if you don't

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Like that kind of thing, you know but I mean I so I've never I've never been in a situation where I thought

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I had to really punch back because I Just handled it in other ways right now.

26:21

I mean, maybe not everyone can do that. I don't know, you know so I'm not trying to say that there's a Like if you don't think you can handle it, right?

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You see what I'm saying? And the only thing you're like it they're just throwing wild punches at you or whatever and You don't you're not calm in your brain, right?

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You don't know how to handle the thing then Yeah, I mean you may have to punch him back just to get him to stop, you know But I mean the situations

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I was in I was in the kind of situations where I thought I could handle it you know, and I did handle it without necessarily harming them, but I'd you know one is

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Just through taking it and then the other is the others were more through like wrestling them and you know

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Restraining them and getting him some kind of submission hold or something. So yeah,

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I mean, I think that there's other ways to Keep yourself from getting like completely physically haunt by harmed, right?

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Assuming you know how to take care of your like, you know, you know how to handle yourself a little bit, right? But then a lot of people don't so it's just you're just wild punch

27:26

Okay, okay hoping something lands I mean, I do think people should make reasonable efforts to try to Be reasonably competent in these areas so that they do have options like that, you know now if you don't then you know

27:41

They're swinging at you. And I mean, I you can try, you know, I mean if you have a group of people coming after you then

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You're in a different situation for sure, right? Yeah, because I mean it may not be that It may not be that you have those kind of options, right?

28:02

Mm -hmm. So I mean I was in I was in a situation like that before too which was kind of funny because I mean is that a mall and a group of guys kind of had me surrounded or whatever and they

28:13

What were you doing growing up? Grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.

28:19

No No, I had a group of guys at a mall once who had surrounded me and you know, so I They were talking all kind of stuff to me and I was like you guys need to stop this, right

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I was like this isn't gonna go well for all you, you know It's not gonna go well for you, you know, you need to think about what you're doing here

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And I had it played out in my mind, you know, cuz I had all the unrealistic Courage of a stupid young kid, you know, no,

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I I knew who I was gonna punch first and I knew it was gonna I had it played out in my mind, you know Like the series of moves is like one of those

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Chinese Fight scenes or something, you know You're gonna go Jackie Chan on the sleeve.

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I had it played out, you know, but I gave it at some point, you know I mean, I I just I I I talked to them and I told them like you you don't want to do this, you know

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You don't want to do this and they got up like a police officer to come and like this guy wants to fight us

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And he's like, do you want to fight them? I said there's 12 of them. There's one of me. What do you think is happening? He's like, yeah, you're right and then he got him

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But no, I mean I think that there are things like that that can happen But if you have like a bunch of people attacking you like there's you know de -escalation techniques are not

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Are pretty unrealistic, you know, like I don't think that that Really happens in most situations.

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I mean if you have a significant strength advantage on them You can restrain him without hurting them I think you should take that if you can if it's pretty equal, you know, or you're outmatched, you know you

30:00

I think you gotta Play dirty Yeah, I was gonna

30:07

I was gonna ask our kit our kicks to the gonads allowed can Christians kick others in the gonads for in self -defense man, that's

30:19

That's a tough one That's a tough one. Yeah, you said cheap shots

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There's other cheap shots, you know, that's a tough one so I mean you have the Old Testament law where the

30:31

Like if a woman grabs a man like if two men are fighting and you know The wife is presumably grabs a man by his genitals or whatever you cut her hand off or whatever

30:41

Yeah, because I mean I think you're Like that what's happening there as the men are fighting

30:48

This is not This is not a death moment, right? Sure, like this isn't like we're gonna curb stomp you

30:57

Like there used to be breaks What I'm trying to say is there used to be breaks to these kind of thing where you had Like a gentlemanly fight that no one was really trying to kill each other with right?

31:07

Mm -hmm There was there was like there was an understanding that yeah, we're gonna fight But I'm not trying to give you brain damage knock out all your teeth, you know kill you

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I'm this is just a Test of masculinity kind of contest kind of thing, right?

31:25

So you like in that kind of setting you have two men fighting you're not like two men are trying to kill each other

31:31

And then a woman does that you're killing its heritage by harming his Family jewels, right?

31:39

Yeah. Yeah, so I I think if you're yeah, if you're not in a life -or -death situation

31:47

That's inappropriate. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm asking more about the life -or -death situation if you're in a life -or -death situation then all lawful measures to preserve

31:59

Yeah, I mean Yeah, I could get there, you know, but I mean that's the last resort

32:05

I mean you could do it. You could do other things to hurt people, too Okay, final question Why didn't

32:12

Paul fight back when he was getting whipped or getting stoned?

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You know any any of those things? Why didn't he fight back? Yeah, so Yeah, that's the distinction.

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I was trying to make before where if they're going if you have a lawful authority that is unjustly punishing you for the sake of the gospel

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Then you accept your fate in that way, you know, so you're not like this is a different situation than just a random stranger on the street who is

32:45

Trying to kill you for no reason, right? Okay. So even if the authority over you is incorrectly using their authority that still wouldn't be the same category as You know the group of 12 guys

32:59

You know trying to get if you have a lawful authority who is using their authority lawfully then you

33:06

You accept it, right? You accept your punishment because it's a just punishment if you have a lawful authority who is using their authority unlawfully

33:16

In general right to take your life. I think yeah, you try to fight back, right? Are you try to stop them?

33:22

You know if they're using the authority unlawfully if they have a lawful authority using their Authority unlawfully to persecute you for Christ then you say

33:32

I'm happy to suffer for the name of Christ, right? Now that doesn't mean you don't flee in Trying to get away from that situation.

33:39

You just say okay. I'm hey Let me tell you where I'm at, you know

33:45

Like you make okay. So so for for the sake of the gospel is its own category essentially is what you're saying

33:51

Yeah, so lawful authority using their authority unlawfully to persecute you for the sake of it and you're backed in the corner

33:57

There's nowhere to go. You know, there's nothing to do you at that point you rejoice You're kind of worthy to suffer you take no thought as to what you're gonna say in that hour, right and you testify

34:11

You know, so I mean Paul was slapped and then he rebuked the high priest until he realized it was the high priest

34:19

And then he took right back Even though the high priest was wrong Right.

34:24

Okay. Okay. Well, that's a good. I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on so thank you

34:31

Tim for answering all my questions related to that and it is certainly a pretty interesting topic and You know one that probably most kids interact with at some point and you know adults too for sure

34:44

And yeah, I think you're right a lot of them number one don't even know How to defend themselves and then beyond that they don't know what

34:52

Situations they need to defend themselves in and what situations they should not defend themselves in so hopefully this has been a helpful conversation for you know, parents and and Children and you know adults who are thinking about all these things for themselves and as certainly our hope is that You know

35:10

God uses this to bless you guys and and equip you for the work of ministry and and I do think that is a pretty interesting

35:18

Category you're mentioning here at the end about hey when it comes to You know when it comes to physical harm when it comes to You know being embarrassed or being shamed

35:31

For the sake of the gospel that is a different category than just getting you know

35:36

Bum rushed on the street somewhere wherever you were when you were a kid But But yeah,

35:45

I do think that is a helpful distinction to make so I appreciate you for pointing that out

35:50

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