10 Reasons Porn is Wrong with Pastor Jared Moore

Pornography as Dehumanization and Idolatry

Welcome once again to the Conversations That Matter podcast. I'm your host, John Harris, with a guest that we've had on before. We have doctor and pastor Jared Moore with us. He is the pastor at Cumberland Homestead's Baptist Church.

And he is actually running for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, which we're gonna talk about a little bit today, but you can find him on Twitter, or X, I guess they call it now, at Jared H. Moore.

And you can also go to YouTube and go to youtube .com forward slash drjaredmoore. Welcome once again, Jared Moore. Appreciate having you on.

Yeah, John, thanks for having me, brother. I'm looking forward to our discussion.

With the recent controversy, I gotta ask you, Cumberland Homestead's Baptist Church sounds like there's a lot of trad wives there. Is that accurate? Ha ha ha.

There's some, there's some. There's actually, there's, yeah, quite a bit.

Yeah, with a name like Homestead's, you know.

Yeah, yeah, that's how they were founded. It's funny, it was Eleanor Roosevelt's pet project, you know, divvying up acreage and people applying for it to buy it, you know, work the land and pay it off.

And that's how our community was founded.

Well, so Homestead's, that is, obviously it's intentional that that's the title, but it literally, it was Homestead's at one time. Yeah, it was Homestead's.

People lived in a barn while they built their house, and several people in our community and in our church were, they were born literally in a barn. Wow. Wow, so, okay, you're the real deal.

And then, and that doesn't get much more Southern Baptist than that, which we're gonna talk about that later in the podcast, because I wanna hear your plans, you know, if you were to win the nomination or the, or I should say the presidency of the SBC, and then, you know, the ground game going into it and all that.

But originally when we decided to have this conversation, I didn't actually know that you were planning on announcing that you were running for president of the Southern Baptist Convention. And just to set the stage for everyone else out there, you've been kind of known as, I guess, the concupiscence guy or the guy that writes on lust of the flesh issues.

And so same-sex attraction has been what we've talked about. But of course, there's a whole slew of those kinds of things, pornography being one. And you wrote a thread on social media, on your Twitter account, and here it is, I'll pull it up for people so they can see.

It's 10 lies you must believe to look at porn. And maybe I can make this bigger for people. I hope that's bigger so people can see it. And it's not short. Like this is a blog on Twitter, right? I think you have 10 reasons here.

And it, you know, it's gotten some traction and stuff, but let's start there. And then maybe we'll transition to the SBC just because, you know, I'm sure that there's issues related to this that, you know, might even motivate you running for SBC president, I don't know.

You have a church, you know. I'm sure there's people in that church who have looked or are looking or struggling with this temptation, you know, to look at pornography. And so my first question to you before we get into the 10, you know, reasons not to, is, you know, what's your posture towards them?

Because I know some pastors, you know, they're very serious and intense upfront and trying to kind of like, you know, really persuade people, just almost scare them not to do this. Other pastors are, you know, a little more, I guess, encouraging upfront that, you know, you can do this kind of like a coach and stuff.

Like what's the tact you take when people come into your office with this?

When people come into my office, I would, you know, just love and encourage them, walk beside them. You know, it really depends on the posture of the person, right? If the person's coming in justifying it, then I'm gonna be more direct.

I mean, if the person's coming in repentant, you know, then I would, it's more walking alongside them in repentance. And so from the pulpit, it is a direct response, right? So it's, people associate today directness with a lack of love or lack of compassion, but I'm just masculine and I preach that way.

I think being direct is being biblical, being prophetic. And so I talk about, I mean, this post is very direct, but it's also very practical. Like the way that God has designed humanity, the way to flourish is by submitting to his ethic, his word.

And when you rebel against his word, it destroys you and your family and your society, your community, your nation. And so I think that this is part of the reason that we're seeing people wait so long to get married, you know, and it's gonna get worse.

It's gonna get worse.

Can you unwrap that for me? Like, what do you mean by that, that pornography is causing people to wait, you know, until their thirties or whatever to get married?

Well, they're lusting and, you know, they're getting sexual satisfaction, a counterfeit sexual satisfaction in fantasies, stories, pixels, and it's enough to lure them and entice them towards immorality to where, you know, marriage is kind of an afterthought where when in most of human history, if you had sexual desires that were springing up, your body was telling you to get married.

It wasn't telling you to go find pornography. And today, pornography is so in your face through all the media. And I can remember growing up where, you know, even where masturbation was condemned by the church and it was even condemned in pop culture.

It wasn't something that was talked about at all. And just through the years, I've noticed in pop culture that it's become a normal discussion. Like, it's considered a normal thing that folks

Like on late night television and that kind of thing.

Oh yeah, I mean, any, I mean, it's everywhere. You know, when I was, so actually in Crossville, I served in Cross, I'm in Crossville now, Tennessee. But I served here as a youth pastor about 20 years ago at another church.

And I would go with the Pregnancy Resource Center at that time in our community was teaching in the public school system abstinence. And so I was going through that ministry to teach abstinence. And the lady who was over the Pregnancy Resource Center wanted me to teach that masturbation is a biblical alternative or a moral alternative to encourage abstinence.

And I wouldn't do it, I quit. And she gave me a tape by James Dobson that was arguing this. Yeah, I think I've heard,.

I don't know if I've heard the exact teaching, but I've heard that James Dobson does try to justify it somehow. And maybe it's different, you know, you could tell by your, you know, the accent difference here too, but maybe growing up, you know, my parents are from California, but I grew up in the Northeast, I grew up in New York.

And I guess it's more godless here in case you didn't know. And so, I mean, I remember in junior college, you know, the teacher telling people to experiment, that it was good for kids to do this, you know, that, you know, I don't know, it just seemed like it was such a normal discussion that you hear, at least in the world, you know, on the workforce or in school.

But, you know, you're right, I think, that even here it's gotten more crass, it's gotten, you know, and I don't know the stats, you might know more than me, but like people aren't even having sex like they used to.

I mean, I'm even talking about immoral sex, right? They're not even doing that, like they used to do. And even some secular psychologists attribute it to, well, they have all this access to pornography, so they're not, they don't even know how, that's the thing, like they don't even know how to approach someone of the opposite gender.

And that's kind of scary in a way, like we're losing our ability to even be human. Well, I mean, these guys can't even,.

I mean, they're saying that these guys, because of pornography, they can't even be ready to perform with a real person. If they get in that situation, their bodies and brains have been so altered by their consumption of pixels and fantasies and that the real thing is not even arousing.

And it's just, it's insane, man. And we're reaping what we sowed. I mean, we're at the lowest birth rate in American history and it's, and this is just the beginning, man. It's like, it's gonna get really bad, really quick.

And it's an opportunity for the church, get married young, have lots of babies, raise them in the word, and we're gonna take over the United States.

Yeah, well, that sounds too trad wife to me, I don't know. All right, so let's go through your list here, because you have the 10 things, and maybe we'll take this in other directions as well, but you have what I would assume are some like kind of demotivators, or I should say motivators, motivators for people to think about this in a negative way so that they might not do it, so that they'll get serious about it.

So 10 lies you must believe to look at porn. Number one, your object is not a person. And I don't know how you want me to do this, but we could just go through it step by step and you can kind of explain what you mean,.

Or you could read it, whatever you want. Sure, yeah, your object is not a person just refers to the fact that you have to dehumanize a person because there's no consents. Like for example, 1 Corinthians talks about mutual consent for the marriage bed.

Right. And there's none of that concerning pornography. As a matter of fact, depending on what you're looking at, well, I mean, you have to do something against the person's will. I mean, it's not like you've had a face-to-face conversation with someone.

They don't know who you are. I mean, you have to dehumanize the person because God has designed sex for marriage and there is a covenant that precedes sexual activity. And so when you separate that covenant, you literally dehumanize.

And the reason why I say that is because Genesis 2, 18 through 25 says, it's not good for man to be alone. God literally takes a piece of the man and creates the woman so there's something missing from the man.

His rib is gone and now his rib has been formed into woman. So he's got a piece of his body missing. She's got a piece, she's no longer part of her body. And so the two literally come back together in the marriage covenant and the one flesh act is sex.

And that is literally God's design. And the further you get from that design, the more detrimental it is to the person. And so for the person that you're lusting after, there is no covenant, there is no care.

There's no, how do I care for this person? There's no lifelong commitment. There's no concern for the person's wellbeing. And many times it's not even a person, it's pixels. And we're even getting more and more into that with the artificial intelligence that's coming.

The artificial intelligence stuff is terrifying because of the evil that it's gonna be used for. Because the way that the law is written right now concerning pornography, I mean, they'll be able to say, this woman they just met on the street, they'll be able to, if they can find a picture of her, they'll say, change the eye color and make a video of this person.

And then under current law, that's gonna be permissible. Because it's a different person because it's a different eye color. And I mean, it's just, it's terrifying with where folks are headed. And with those fantasies at the click of a button, literally men are not gonna be able to even, they're gonna totally lose the ability to even pursue, like talk to a woman.

Like it's bad now, but it's about to get really, really bad because everything's easy. You click a button and dating, man, dating was miserable. I hated dating. I mean, my wife, she didn't talk a whole lot.

That's probably the only reason we're married is nobody knew, she was a homebody and nobody knew this beautiful lady was home. But our brother and I were big buddies and long story short, our first date was like, what's your favorite cereal?

It was just painstaking and it was rough. But, cause I never knew, I still, I never knew like, does she like me? Does she, everything was fine. And anyway, she kept going and she said yes. So it was almost 20 years later, man.

Yeah, but I mean, imagine being able to just click a button and you have no moral grounds to do otherwise, right? Instead of having to go through the phone calls and the rejection and the, and like, I always hated dating, always hated dating.

And once you're in love though, man, it's wonderful. But before then, man, I can't imagine trying to date today. Like, and I can't imagine waiting to in my late twenties where all the baggage that everybody's got, you know, and that I would have by then.

And I mean, that would just be brutal.

So is what you're saying that there's a disincentive to date and this is kind of like with AI, especially, this gives men all the reason not to go venture outside into the sunlight and do what they need to do.

Yeah, absolutely. And you're going to see more and more kids. I mean, less and less kids and the kids who are there growing up without fathers, if the mothers decide to bring them to term.

Yeah, so sad. And I relate to what you're saying about dating a bit. I could think of some awkward encounters that I had, but you learn in that. And I think that's what you're trying to say. Like, this is how you, whether it's awkward or not, you know, you have to know how to live with your wife in an understanding way, as scripture says.

And it starts with talking to them.

A godly woman is worth pursuing. She's worth the awkwardness, she's worth the pursuit and the pursuit is miserable in the beginning because it's just, and she was young and I was naive. I mean, just, but it's a beautiful thing when two young naive people believe the covenant, come together, cut that covenant and pursue one another the rest of their lives.

I mean, that is the ideal and raise children. And we've got four children. I'd love to have more, but she's very tired. And she does like 90%, she stays home. So she does like 90 of the work, man. And so.

Well, not everyone has the same experience Jared Moore had with dating, just so people know, don't be afraid, go out there. But I, you know, your point is well taken about, you know, this isn't a person anymore when it's just pixels.

I mean, you could go back in time and say like, you know, what if it was just caveman drawings? This is just a greater, you know, complicated form of that, I suppose. And it would be silly, you know, why would someone be in love with caveman drawings?

But yeah, that's essentially what's going on here. It makes no sense. Two, your object is less valuable than God's image. So not only is it not a person, but it's less than a person, you know.

They're not meant to reflect God, which is the reason why God made all humanity for the purpose of reflecting him. And so by you using another person or another person's likeness in a way that God did not design, you are de-imaging him or her.

You're saying they're less valuable than God's image. They do not need care. They do not, you know, they're not meant to reflect God. They're meant to reflect your, or to appease your lustful, let's just call it what it is.

It's satanic, right? It's the only reason that lust exists in the heart of sinners is not because of God's design. It's because of the fall. It's when Adam and Eve, particularly Adam, began to image the evil one, began to submit to the devil's authority.

And as a result, the devil's authority, the devil's way of viewing the world and creation has been put into mankind through Adam's sin. And now all his posterity are born in the likeness of the evil one, even as we're still creating God's image, but it's a marred image.

And Christ has come to restore that image to what God intended. But whenever we participate in sin, in lust, and bringing that lust to fruition is even worse, through sexual morality, we de-image whatever person we're lusting after.

So this is interesting because we were talking about, yeah, it's not a person, but in a sense, and with AI, I guess that could certainly be the case. It's pieces of people that they brought together, but with, now I'm using the word traditional, which is kind of weird, but with traditional pornography, right?

So you're talking about images and pictures, right? It reminds me of, there was like a meme that it was like, it was conservatives in like 2024 that had a rainbow flag and it said, and it had a trans flag.

It said, reject modernity, meaning reject the trans flag, embrace tradition. It was the rainbow flag. I feel like that's the world we're heading towards here. But my point is though, that there is a person behind, right, even though you're looking at pixels, if you're the one that's engaged in this sin, you're also looking at what's supposed to represent an actual person made in God's image.

So I think that's what your second one kind of gets at here. And that kind of is serious that your object is, it's less valuable because it's pixels, but it's also like, I don't know, how would you say it?

Like, it's fooling you. It's trying to deceive you into thinking that you're with a person who's not there, that kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, it takes a person's, an image bearer's likeness and devalues it, uses it in a way that is satanic, not godly.

Right, doesn't honor them. Number three, your object does not need a spouse.

So they don't need you. Yeah, that goes back to Genesis 2, where Adam's missing something until his wife is brought back to him. And at the very end of that passage in Genesis 2, God says, for this reason, right?

A man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. Right, for what reason? Well, it's not good for man to be alone. There's something missing from man till he is joined to his wife.

That is the default setting of, according to the creation order, according to God's design. So you don't need porn, and you don't need a sex object, and you don't need, you know, I don't wanna be crude, but you don't need an orgasm.

What you need is a wife or a husband to covenant together with, to be one flesh with, and ultimately to show and demonstrate a real life example of Christ's love for the church and the union that the church has with Christ.

And so it's ultimately a preparation for an eternal fulfillment in the church's love for Christ and Christ's love for the church. And it's literally supposed to be a living example of that. And so just think of it, if you view marriage, so if marriage is meant to ultimately display Christ's love for the church and the church's love for Christ, and then the sexual act is meant to demonstrate the union, the intimacy that Christ has with his church for all eternity, the oneness.

And so now you take that unity and you bring it together with pixels or with AI or with fantasy or something less than human like it's just, if you understand that it's meant to display something greater than just a man and woman coming together in the sex act, it's meant to display something eternal.

Like it's meant to have an eternal fulfillment. And then to take that, and this is something Paul gets at when he talks about taking the temple of God and joining it to a prostitute, right? There's something seriously heinous in us being involved in dehumanizing another human being, but also what it does to us and also what it does to our relationship with God.

And I mean, it's just, it's awful, but we often don't frame it this way. And it's because of the evil one, it's because of the deceitfulness of the flesh. The justifications usually, I'm not hurting anyone, no one even knows that I'm doing this, but it's impossible though to, well, to compromise on God's word in private without also compromising in public.

And we've all seen this, right? We've all seen, if you'll dehumanize someone in private, you'll dehumanize people in public.

I remember when I was in junior college, we had someone come in to talk about abstinence, STDs, abortion, all that kind of thing. And the only, it was kind of frustrating, the only reason they could give to not engage in intercourse before marriage was look at all these diseases that you can get.

That was it, right? And I had pointed out to this person afterward, I was kind of like, this isn't a great argument against pornography, which I know is a big issue in this age group. Because you're just giving them these physical consequences, they're spiritual consequences that we don't fully even comprehend.

And I think that's what James Dobson was getting at when he tried to justify masturbation because he was seeing guilt in young men over doing this. And he thought, well, let's just kind of take that guilt away by saying it's okay.

It doesn't take the guilt away. And there's a reason that you're hardwired with that. There's a reason you feel bad if you do that kind of thing. There's a reason that God put it in men to be with women and women to be with men and not to have a counter, to partake in a counterfeit.

There's like a design here. And it's a compassionate thing for, I think, you as a pastor, to tell people in your flock, a warning, this is a cliff, you go over this, it's gonna hurt. It's not just gonna hurt the person, if there's a person, but it's gonna hurt you.

And I don't know fully how to even understand that because as you said, Paul even says it's a mystery when a husband and a wife come together in that union, there's a spiritual thing happening and I can't even put words to it.

Sorry, I should probably have let you talk. I'm doing most of the talking here. Helpful. So your object needs, does not need protection. That's an interesting one. So one of your roles as husbands, I guess, is not fulfilled when you engage in this.

Oh yeah, and you're actually using your object against his or her will. Especially, so men think of, you notice a pretty lady, but you notice your flesh says she is sexually attractive. And so you lust in your heart towards her.

When you do that, you're doing that one against her will. I mean, it's, you are taking something, even if she doesn't know it, even if it doesn't affect her, you're taking something that she has not given and that you do not have a right to take.

You understand this whenever you hear of another man looking at your wife the way that perhaps you've looked at other women. You understand what this means that, no, no, no, you're one flesh with your wife.

You have covenanted to care for her. She is under your care. You've covenanted to provide for her and all those things. And then this sorry piece of trash man looks at her and he has not signed on the dotted line.

He has not covenanted to her. He has not cared for her. He has not loved her. I mean, we understand how heinous that is. But when we do it towards someone else, we self-justify. The flesh lulls us to sleep so that it can slay us, hates us.

And so we need to see that as a serious offense. And we understand with our daughters, with our loved ones. I mean, we understand that, but there's a disconnect when it comes to other human beings with other image bearers.

And we should still have that biblical mentality like 1 Timothy 5 to Paul tells young Timothy to view older women as mothers, younger women as sisters in all purity. And so that is how we must view older women and younger women that we're not married to.

Absolutely.

Yeah, good point. And your next point, I think you may have already kind of covered, which is that your object was not made in God's image, which is similar. I'm trying to look at the difference here.

So you started out with your object is less valuable than God's image. So your object, what's the distinction here that your object was not made in God's image, what you're trying to say?

Well, this is a statement against God. So not only have you said something against the person who is not, you're saying he or she is not made in God's image. Now you're also making a negative statement about God.

You're saying that God did not create him or her in his image.

Gotcha, gotcha. And then six, this one I want to hear you talk about. Your object diminishes God's glory. And I think, you know, the young man, let's say who has just partaken in this, he might be scratching his head and saying, well, I know it hurts me.

I know it's, I feel guilt. I know it's wrong, but how in the world does this diminish God's glory?

Yeah, when I say diminish God's glory, what I mean is it hides God's glory or, you know, veils God's glory because God's glory is not in making a woman for you to lust after. That is not why he created the woman that you're looking at or that you're using or abusing in your mind.

And he made her to reflect his glory, to be a woman for his glory, not to be some object for you to use contrary to that glory. And so you must call God a liar in order to treat his image bearer as something less than what he created her for.

Gotcha. You say number seven, your object is not human.

So it gets to like animalistic desires where you disconnect, distinct, you know, think of a human reason, love, all those things are thrown out the window, right? Because sin is irrational and, you know, you're now treating this person.

I mean, and many times it's not, I mean, you know, basically it's based on, you know, pornography. I mean, it's not like, how do I care for this person or this person's an image bearer, any of that. It's looking at blinkless faces or actors or actresses or people who are deceptive and lying about who God made them to be.

You know, it's all this, something less than what God intended for image bearing.

And, you know, it's Can I ask a question? So this is something I could see someone pushing back with potentially. We do watch movies, right? I mean, I don't know if you do. I watch them occasionally, I'll admit it, right?

With actors and actresses, they're not actually doing the things that they're portraying. They're mimicking behavior. And some of them are good. I mean, I think there's actually some good Christian efforts that have been made to, you know, like show Moses.

You know, it's not Moses, it's an actor that's portraying who Moses is or something like that. And of course you could say, I mean, that's fantasy, right? But I mean, it teaches kids moral lessons, right?

There's good things I can see coming from that. You know, obviously this is much different, but how is it much different? I guess this is the question. How is this, when you say this, it's not human, this isn't the image of God, it's all those things.

I mean, those things could apply to you're watching a television screen too, right? So how is this different?

Well, it's gotta correspond to, you could say natural law. It's gotta correspond to what God has designed. Like it's similar when folks talk about attending a gay wedding, right? They're like, no, no, no, Jesus hung out with sinners.

Well, Jesus hung out with sinners doing what they were designed to do. He ate with them, right? Eating is not sin. Good point. Right, it's a good thing. God literally designed mankind to partake of food.

And so Jesus did things that were in line with God's design and he did those with sinners. So it's like working with sinners, playing with sinners. And so when someone is acting, we would need them to act according to their design, right?

So it's similar to like, we wouldn't go to a drag event because you've got a man dressed up like a woman, doesn't matter if he's acting or not, unless it's, you could make the argument for comedic effect, but even then it would be comedic effect.

Like it would be saying this is preposterous, right? So it's in line with God's design. I see what you're saying, yeah. And so sexual morality, pornography, or sex scenes in movies where they're actually participating in sexual situations would be sin to view and partake in.

And even for those actors, you're watching them sin. Like you're watching them participate in something that should be done in a marriage bed behind closed doors, only that it's really the, Adam and Eve were ashamed.

And some of them was broken in the marriage bed with the fall, but with a Christian couple being married, there's supposed to be this restoration of what Adam and Eve, that shame, that shame is not supposed to be there in the marriage bed.

And these actors and actresses who are acting these things out, there should be shame. There should be shame because they're not in the marriage bed and they're doing this for public consumption, which is detrimental to them.

And so when I say it's not human, it's just, it gets down to chemical reactions. Like it gets down to, I mean, what separates it from, what ultimately separates us humans concerning sex from the animal kingdom is the covenant of marriage.

And I mean, animal kingdom, they're just roam around and sleep with whoever, you know?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, so we only have a little bit of time left. Let's, I'll read the next three and then I'll let you go whatever direction you wanna go. Number eight, your object is not an avenue through which to enjoy the Lord.

Number nine, your object reflects your image. And then number 10, your object is merely one of many objects.

Right, so, I'll leave it up there. It's not about worship. It's not about, you know, when we get saved, we build our lives on worshiping Yahweh by the Spirit through the Son to the Father. And literally our whole lives are acts of worship.

That's, we're under the Lordship of Christ. And, you know, when you look at another image bearor in a sexual way that is not your spouse, you view him or her as an avenue through which not to enjoy the Lord, but to enjoy something counterfeit, to enjoy something evil.

Really, it's satanic. I mean, you know, it's not overtly satanism, but it's the equivalent when Jesus tells the Pharisees, you are of your father, the devil. And it is of the devil to use God's creation in a way that God did not intend or design.

Your object reflects your image because you are sinning. Now you're using your object as a way to sin, right? It's no longer just you sinning. It's you're trying to get someone else's likeness to participate in your sin to reflect your image.

So your image, by you sinning, you're reflecting the devil. And you're trying to get that person to reflect the devil's design as well by involving him or her in your mind in something that is contrary to God, contrary to his design, contrary to marriage, contrary to the marriage bed.

And then your object is merely one of many objects. This just means that if you're willing to dehumanize another image bearer and use him or her for your own glory in a sinful fashion, then you will do it in other ways as well.

If you're willing to devalue another image bearer in your mind, then you will throughout your day. It won't just be something that you participate in private. You will de-image your spouse. You'll de-image other individuals at work, your coworkers.

I mean, just everyone else because you've already shown that you're willing to use another image bearer against his or her will in a way that does not please the Lord, in a way that reflects the evil one.

And you're willing to do all that in private. You'll also be willing to do that in public. And you'll find that you can't compartmentalize your sin. You'll find that it will negatively impact your view of image bearers across the board because it's ultimately selfishness, right?

It's my way, my will, bending God's creation to submit to me, and you'll do that in other ways. And so it's a very serious thing. It's sin is always serious, but this particular sin is evidently something that has run rampant throughout the church just based on stats we have, right?

Like, what is it, 90 or something of Christian men.

Deal with pornography? I would assume, I haven't looked at stats lately on it, but that would be my guess. It's common. And one of the things, you might, I don't know if we're the same age, you might be a little bit older than me, but I think we grew up, when I was a kid, I didn't have, we didn't have smartphones, right?

There was no dial-up. You had dial-up internet, right? With a, and I don't know, some people, my friends didn't even really have that. And then of course, into our teens is when you start seeing smartphones and this kind of thing.

And I consider myself, I guess, fortunate. I didn't realize, because my parents, my dad would say that, well, they just had, the only access in the 70s and 80s was you had to get magazines and you had to actually go to the store and buy magazines if you wanted that.

You couldn't just turn on the television and see advertisements that are semi-pornographic. And so he was kind of lamenting the era which I grew up, but I feel like I'm fortunate because it's the Zoomers now, they are equipped with smartphones and technology at such young ages, they have access to all this stuff and it's everywhere.

And if you're not looking for it, it'll pop up. And they're at ages where they certainly don't know what to do with that. And so the thing, this is, I guess, where I want to kind of land the plane if we can, is maybe some encouragement because I know that guys who are teenagers or in their 20s now have been so affected by this, many of them, at least, that they don't even know what to do.

It's just like, it seems hopeless. And so what do you as a pastor, Jared Moore, have for them on this?

Yeah, so the first thing is realizing that you are more valuable. You're too good for pornography. Like you're an image bearer and if you're a Christian, you're the bride of Christ, you are a son of God.