Pastor vs. Ladies at a Protest

Apologia Studios

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00:00

Hey ladies, I'm Jeff. What's your name? I'm Jensen. Jensen. Brie. Brie. And Simone. All right, great to meet you guys.

00:05

So why are you guys here? I am supporting the I'm opposing the ban of abortions.

00:12

I think it's completely inappropriate. I believe that there's we're not we're lacking regulating guns but you are taking our rights from us and we've already as women have struggled with our rights and having the right to vote and now you are completely degrading our reproductive opportunities.

00:29

And kids are dying at a rapid rate anyway right now with the gun like the guns going on in the schools. There's like hundreds of thousands of kids in the foster home system that don't get taken for like they get taken for granted so it's just crazy that this is where we start with.

00:40

We're not taking any steps in educating people about sex. We're not taking any steps in contraceptives like birth control like none of that's being taken but we're going to these extreme measures to have these bans that are extreme and then not having to take steps forward to that it's just an extreme ban

00:53

I feel. I just I'm more of like it being a woman's choice I think the choice to have sex is both men and women the choice to carry a child kind of more falls on the woman because the man can totally just leave at any point and like if we're gonna make abortions illegal and have single women now raising children that maybe they never even wanted to have by themselves or maybe it's hard for them to have that child because of like mental illnesses or being raped or something like that so for me it's more of a choice rather than a political viewing and wanting to murder babies obviously.

01:28

So you mentioned that if a child has to be raised by a single mother or it's disabled that we should be able to kill it.

01:36

We're so advanced in technology and science that we know ahead of time before the baby's even born that what conditions they could possibly have so to be able to like prevent that ahead of time especially if you're a low -income family you know you're not able to take care of that baby if they come out with any kind of birth defects and there's no government assistance either to help that parent take care of it.

01:51

So again but found foundationally what you're saying that if it's disabled and we discover it's disabled in the womb we should kill the disabled children.

01:59

I'm sorry, I meant mental health and the mother and the parents like people who are just not suitable to be having kids and don't want to have kids for that.

02:07

Okay, I'm gonna answer. Thank you for clarifying that but it sounds like that's what you were saying if we discover in the womb through technology that they're gonna be disabled or something's wrong we should be able to kill that child.

02:17

I would say so it's the thing I don't think there's no programs to help this parent or these parents out when the baby's born so it's like you're kind of leaving this parent up to like you have to keep it until it's born and then you got to figure out yourself like we're gonna be in control of your body until it's born and then once you have it that's all you and I think that's kind of an unfair.

02:32

I do actually agree with you that we need to make sure that we're caring for women for for mothers and fathers for children we actually need to I think we're required and love would require that sort of a thing but I think foundationally we're not really talking about that in terms of the abortion discussion because we're talking about is the argument is is if something's wrong with the child in the womb we should be able to kill it and we're saying that if it's raised in poverty we should be able to kill it.

02:55

I don't think so I think that's an extreme like way to put it but I guess like I mean I just I just think there's so many more steps that can be taken like I think the topic of abortion is a very sensitive topic obviously but I think that there's so many other things like they were the band's going to an extreme

03:08

I feel and I feel like we're not taking steps like appropriate steps before getting to this band that need to be taken like I said

03:14

I think sex education is huge I think and any even in high school even in college

03:19

I did a presentation about it many kids don't students don't even know even the STIs or even just safe sex in general we have a

03:26

Walmart across the from our campus that doesn't even sell condoms so it's a lot I just think there should be steps taking it like forward

03:33

I think eventually maybe down the line if we were to take these steps in order to prevent this this final step of aborting like then maybe we could get to here but I think we haven't even taken like these baby steps to getting to that point and that's kind of where I'm at because like Planned Parenthood I know everyone's against them but they offer so much more than just abortions so I think they offer a lot and it's and it's cheaper so there's an argument that could be made in terms of if we think about this critically because I respect you very immensely and I believe that God's given us a mind to use it and use it well and to be consistent but if you think about what we're saying if we say things like Planned Parenthood also offers a lot of other services well my response is that Auschwitz served a very good chicken soup and they clothed and they fed people and gave them jobs but what's the main problem we all recognize is they were murdering people

04:20

Planned Parenthood comparing the Holocaust to abortions well in the Holocaust we in the Holocaust we had a group of people who looked at Jews and said

04:27

I know it looks like a person it's not a person it's a Jew we're allowed to kill him and in the abortion discussion we're saying

04:33

I know that it technically is a human and it looks like a human but we are allowed to kill it and so in the situation we have around us we have that thought process that I know that it's a human being there's no disputing that it can't be disputed even

04:46

Planned Parenthood acknowledges that from the moment of conception it's human there's no denying that all it is is a human developing and so what we need to ask is when is it okay to murder a human being when is it okay to kill a human so I just had a friend who was her third child she just had to get it aborted because she had a cyst on her ovaries

05:06

I believe are her bladder and burst and she's in critical care right now but they had to abort the baby because he was either the baby was gonna die regardless but the mom was for sure gonna die if the baby wasn't aborted so my question is like so in that instance is that okay like I feel like we're saying black or white and I feel like there's a lot of gray area that needs to be covered and I feel like it's not a black and white issue

05:21

I think there's a lot of and that's why I'm kind of the laws are extreme too extreme for me black and white and I feel there's a lot of gray and there's a lot of ways that we can help stop aborting as much or stop like helping

05:32

I would we do that though I'm sorry is it a moral problem is abortion a moral problem we would want to lessen the amount or isn't it just something we just do no

05:39

I I don't like the idea of abortion I like the idea of a woman having a choice and I have worked at a child facility for about eight years and I've seen what it looks like what kids turn into when they don't have supportive parents and parents that don't want them don't really care for them and it it ruins their lives and that's where I'm like I would rather should they be dead then is that what you're arguing

06:02

I feel for you as a pastor we care for so many people in so many different situations poor families families with a lot of needs we've cared for tons of families that have considered abortion and then to turned away from the abortion clinic and now those children are alive

06:20

I've held them in my arms but if we talk if we talk about what's actually happening yeah

06:27

I respect the fact that you said I'm not I'm not happy about abortion but I just want you to consider why not if it's not a moral issue why not why not isn't it the same as removing a wart or a toenail or do we recognize all of us that it's really something different I think everybody here recognizes that it's more than removing a wart or a toenail what is it removing it's removing a life it is a human being no

06:54

I think that rapists deserve the death penalty but not the children that's okay no no no no you have to carry a baby to term is that not what it's all

07:08

I'll respond to that so so first of all and this goes back to one of the main points you made a minute ago sorry I missed it and that's that less than 2 % of abortions less than 2 % are for rape incest or life of the mother the rest are essentially elective so less than 2 % are for rape incest in life of the mother if we consider that what's that mean that the vast majority of abortions are done electively because they just don't want the child or different circumstances so in the issue you brought up where you have a life the life of the mother truly in danger you mentioned you said the child's dying anyways and so what you're talking about there is is is a rescue operation you're not talking about an elective taking of a human life you're talking about a mother and a child who are hanging off a cliff in a car and you have a chance to grab one of them but that's not what we're talking about we're talking about abortion here we're talking about the ability to just kill our children at will that's what everyone's here for is because we're saying this is a this is kill your children

08:01

March I didn't know well in the womb in the womb it's a human being from conception and it's a child someone's raped what do you think so that woman carried to turn that's all

08:11

I'm asking you I do appreciate the question if somebody's raped I think we should give the man the death penalty not the child the woman should carry out the birth is what you're saying

08:21

I don't think we should punish children for the crimes of their fathers no okay so so yeah and then let me ask you

08:27

I'll toss it back to you now so now in your worldview a woman is raped should the man get the death penalty should the man get the death penalty see that and I think that's another that's another life but that's a life thing too so he can die that's fine but then like because he's committed a horrendous wicked crime the child hasn't so in your in your in your perspective

08:48

I think pro -life pro -life for everyone not just like the no no I know

08:53

I'm hearing you that the difference is in terms of a category a human being who maliciously wickedly rapes a woman he deserves to die because he's committed a crime

09:04

I just want you to consider something I don't mean this is an attack on you I mean this with true respect and love for you you had a hard time answering whether you thought the man should get the death penalty for raping a woman but you're this fast about the child should die like I said like with science and everything and look at the statistics like look who mostly effect is affected by people who have to care after their their pregnancies it's women of color and women who low income that's that's majority of the women who have to deal with these pregnancies and then don't get to like aren't we gonna be able to have these abortions and to me that's like crazy because it's affecting a certain group of people it's not affecting like you know

09:38

I mean a good look statistically like who's this is majority affecting as well you know that mark mark and you do you know the history of Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger with black people do you know that yeah you know that history that she was a very serious racist and she targeted

09:51

African -Americans and if you and this is what really bothers me and troubles me because I think racism is a wicked evil sin to look at another human being because of a difference in color of skin is a wicked evil thing well

10:03

Margaret Sanger was not only a rabid racist but Planned Parenthood since the very beginning has set up their locations closest to low -income areas and predominantly black areas

10:14

Planned Parenthood is actually responsible for wiping out much of our black brothers and sisters in this country

10:21

I think that's kind of like a dramatic just because no that's a that's a fact no and I believe that I believe that I mean

10:26

I don't know about that history like prior like I don't know anything about that but I'm saying like people evolve hopefully is what we're hoping and that you can like overcome like you can have a different perspective except that Planned Parenthoods are still set up in predominantly black areas and of low income right are they low in and and next to and next to female dorms predominant female dorms college campuses where the women are black areas where there's more of more of a black community and low -income areas yes because we because we've seen that that's usually the communities that are most effective

10:54

Planned Parenthood is predominantly killing black children I mean I don't know how statistics statistics on it like I'm not gonna answer that I don't

11:01

I really don't know like I haven't looked it up but I did all I know for sure is that those are the communities that are most affected by so and just in terms of what we're thinking about when we think about because you guys are obviously very beautiful people and you you're very loving and gracious but in this case

11:16

I just want to encourage you to see that maybe you've adopted a cultural perspective that you haven't fully thought thought through yet because you you acknowledge completely and I acknowledge that abortion we're not happy with that but I just want you to consider this if abortion is a moral right then there's no reason not to be happy there's just there's no consequence to it so what

11:38

I don't know if you went on camera okay so I know like a lot with like the Catholic churches and like a lot of churches that there's priests to molest children yeah and to me it's kind of like you guys are choosing and not you guys like I want to generalize like everyone like here but I'm just saying like a lot of people choose to look at this and say how are you guys killing children like why are you guys so blind like that's like messed up and it's like well we like I can look at that and say well you guys are turning a blind eye to a lot of the stuff that happens in the church

11:59

I'm really glad you brought it up because I think it's it's such an evil thing first of all I'm not Roman Catholic so I agree with you

12:08

I actually think that the Roman Catholic priests have involved in that deserve the death penalty I think they should be brought up on charges they should they should be brought up on criminal charges and they should be given the death penalty as punishment for actually doing such a heinous thing to a child because we should protect children you agree yeah how come you how come you believe how come not in the womb well and this is a thing so like it's like I said there's thousands of kids already in like the country who don't have homes who don't have parents and like to me it's like we could all be working together to help those kids and we should we're choosing to focus on this issue like and like I said like I'm all about like preventative and like education so like why are we not preventing or like educating people are preventing it it's like we're just choosing to can

12:47

I answer that just hopefully this is an encouragement not a point to make you feel small or to refute you but Alabama does the ban but Alabama is also leading the nation in adoption did you know that okay so they have a state who said that don't kill these children and we want all your children and I want you guys to hear from me just as a friend and as a pastor

13:09

I've I've been outside outside the abortion clinic for years now I've seen I've seen God saves hundreds and hundreds of children literally thousands across the country

13:18

I've held these children on my arms when the mom was on in pre -op on the table and she changed her mind when we're you know calling out and trying to help and I've asked hundreds of times outside the abortion clinics

13:31

I've said we'll adopt your baby we'll pay for absolutely everything you'll have no cost to you whatsoever and this is the most common response that we've gotten truly and I think it's heartbreaking they'll turn around and they'll say to me

13:42

I couldn't give my baby up for adoption and then they turn they go inside and they kill their baby do you think that's an easy like I'm just understand do you think that that's an easy to know

13:51

I don't I don't so I just feel like when she's like they're in that decisions made um I just feel like we shouldn't be like telling her what that's like that's where this all stems from like the whole abortion thing like do

14:00

I think we should kill kids like obviously not like I worked with kids my whole life like I don't think that's an option but I think women should have a choice that's my whole thing

14:06

I think a choice to kill their kids if you want to call it that and you can call it that I think that's isn't that the truth oh yeah but like I'm saying like I think there should be steps like and like and it's sad that we've gone to this like this far this extreme because we haven't come up with steps to get there yet now shouldn't shoot shouldn't we say together though I mean

14:21

I'd be willing to work hand in hand with you we shouldn't kill any children but we also need to work together to care for all these children that have needs

14:29

I think we should give them a choice but I also think we should help them have decisions like hey this is sex education first and foremost because majority of people

14:36

I'm sure don't know much about any like much about that like that's truth like I never had sex education ever in college high school anywhere like never you go to public school

14:44

I did go to public school I'm a university right now and so it's just like you didn't get sex education in public school we learned about our period you got an elementary school it was menstruating and that was that was the simplicity of it yeah anything outside of human sexuality

14:58

I've had to take interest on my own and do my own research and then hopefully been able to spread that to my friends and I think that with the whole we don't we aren't happy about aborting a baby it's not that it is the fact that choosing to have an abortion is not easy for women as well and it's a hard decision and so believe that because I think anybody who's a mom is gonna struggle morally with the issue of taking the life of your own child so of course it's it's a hard decision to make it all

15:28

I'd say it ought to be a hard decision to make but can you guys see from even our discussion here that if we're all we all know we're talking about a human being if we all know that we don't want this as a good thing then the solution can't be well let's just let it happen because she has a right over her own body

15:44

I think we all recognize because we're admitting is what's inside of her is not her body I think there's more like it's more than just that that's in these laws is that that's my issue so like the problem having with it is that like the you're gonna go be sent to jail for having abortion like I just think like those are kind of extreme and I what should a mom get who kills her child

16:02

I don't think mom should get anything I think what I saw the woman who the woman who drove her children into a river her two kids into a river first breath of air

16:11

I don't think that that counts as a living breathing life okay so that that helped that helps me to see your perspective okay so if if a person is in the hospital they've been in a horrific accident and they're required to be on a ventilator to survive so we have to mechanically make sure they're breathing they can't breathe on their own can

16:30

I kill that person because they can no longer breathe on their own um yeah yeah they have wills are not wills but they have stuff written out for the situations like that I've had my own made that if I am on like a breathing system or if I am unable to make my own choices

16:47

I have it written down what I want and I have my parents you know your choice to determine what happens with your boss yeah because I've had a life and I've had the womb isn't isn't being allowed to have that but I've had the life and I've had the opportunity to to make that choice but not the baby so just kill you're making it so like but I'm just saying like you wouldn't know you know what

17:11

I mean and like so if I fell over right now and I stopped breathing would you guys come help me yes but your argument is if you're not breathing you're not human but you've already taken your first breath of air you've already you're here you are here so you have a you have an arbitrary standard that once you breathe you're human

17:29

I think I think the whole thing I think we're trying to get to is that we necessarily like we think when we just have their own choice like we understand where you're coming from I totally respect that like I totally get that I think that's amazing that you should a man have his choice to rape a woman if he pleases that's his choice

17:44

I'm not so I mean I think that's so different why it's you it's a person just to think about the parallel now a man is doing something to a woman's body it's his body he's saying

17:55

I have a choice over my own body but he's doing it to somebody else's body you're saying he he has no right to do to somebody else's body things without their permission but the woman with the baby in her womb you're saying she does have permission to violate another person's body without their permission

18:12

I'm just really quick you're comparing rape and abortion like you're saying I'm saying in terms of a category in a situation of rape the man is doing making a choice with his body what he wants to do to another person's body right you're saying no to that but you're saying yes to the mother who does something to another body within her that's not her body

18:31

I think there are gonna be ways to twist it and we could probably go back and forth all day there's not a parallel isn't that a parallel though I mean

18:37

I I don't see it like that because we have different views and I see your side and I appreciate how nice and how like how you're going about this conversation and I'm I appreciate that your views but I think that we can will probably just end up going back and forth all day because we both respect each other's views and we can have conversations but there's so much gray area and there's so many ways to twist things that I ask you one question and again this is not this is not to create conflict between us but just to ask you this with honesty and integrity here is it possible that you have that perspective that we just have different perspectives because you can't answer the challenge that it's it's it's a person doing something with their body as a choice to another human being's body against that person's will so I'm not me

19:26

I'm not gonna say rape and abortion are the same or at least in that in that instance like a man's taking hit like whatever able to control woman's body then why is that any different maybe

19:34

I help maybe clarify what's wrong with rape that it's not it's unwarranted sex sexual intercourse it's not wanted obviously it's someone who is forcing themselves on someone else like it's not what's happening in abortion

19:47

I'm forcing myself onto another human being I mean I'm just curious I haven't looked at the statistics like what are the statistics of like you said 2 % people who get less than 2 % is is announced as abortion is for rape less than 2 % is life incest or sorry life of the mother incest or rape what is gonna happen with all of the children that are no longer allowed to be aborted they're gonna be had and if their parents don't want them what's gonna happen to our adoption sister in foster care

20:14

I've seen so many kids get the worst shit under the stick of foster care and like it breaks my heart to put the point that like why bring them into this world if you're not gonna be there and care and love for them and you can't assure that somebody else will you seem like you seem no no no you seem like a very compassionate and a very bright person

20:33

I mean that sincerely so just consider this one thing one is that if I take your argument as you stated because the child is poor and it's a rough life we ought to just kill them there are so many children who are from rich homes who just get ignored

20:50

I grew up in Scottsdale with kids who have drug issues alcohol issues because they have no attention they had no support ever by their rich parents so they'd be better off dead they might think so and some of them end up like that because of the choices that they make because of the lack of choices they and because the choices they make yeah but it's still the same result because of the lack and love of support and if those parents would have just known that they wouldn't be able to offer that and can't assure that they anybody else can then maybe they would have saved those kids a whole lot of hurt and a whole lot of pain in their life to the fact that they had to take their own life or they had to get involved with things that did take their life so would you agree that we should have a council of people to determine whether you should live

21:30

I don't even know if it should come up you mean like in the womb well like what you're arguing is that people should be able to make the determination that your life's gonna be too hard all decide for you you should die oh no absolutely not because there's no way to predict that which is you just said that's what you would do if parents would have known and could predict that children would be raised and have difficulties they should be able to kill them no

21:52

I didn't mean predict like that I meant like if the mother carrying it is not going to be there and offer that support and know that or know that it has the possibility of get getting that which

22:03

I'm not saying it doesn't because they totally there are some great my stepmom was adopted I'm not against adoption at all but our adoption system and our foster care system is so messed up right now adding millions of children into that is just can

22:16

I so one thing just to go look this up because I think it really bless you in Colorado the

22:21

Christian Church in Colorado worked together in Colorado's adoption system and they cleared it out right and I saw

22:29

I want to say this and this is just probably something I don't know if we'd agree on it or not but it's it's it's I think it's it would be solid early on in American history it was the

22:37

Christian churches that actually owned the orphanage and adoption care system and we were doing amazing with it when the government stepped in and took over the adoption system and the agencies and everything else the way that they have now we've seen this catastrophic situation with the adoption care industry and the orphanages and all the rest so I think when you allow the state to get involved and what the church should be involved in and they control it it creates massive conflict but I think that's when you see the

23:05

Christian church is working together in the orphanages and the adoption care industry we're actually we're actually owning that and we're doing a good job when we're in control of those those things so the

23:15

Christian churches and Christian agencies across the country are the ones who are actually leading in the orphanage care system and everything else we're the ones that are doing the most and I think when you give it to the state you create devastation awful stuff that you and I would probably be standing outside together fighting against but I just want to I want to just show you something this means so much to me you guys hear this you guys are lovely bright compassionate people you have so much concern for children that's amazing why not for the children in the womb so I just have a question this is a kind of like a side note kind of thing do you think there should be any steps like honestly like any steps before there's any kind of like the abortion factor gets in there do you think we should educate like children on sex and like do you think contraception should be available to like more people

24:03

I think okay I appreciate that question yeah yeah so I think that we I think we need to get back to a place in our country where we actually recognize that we are not a law unto ourselves that there's a law higher than us and we should teach people about the value and beauty and dignity of life and sex because our kids are being taught in public schools now any any form of sex that you desire whatever your affections are that's that's what you should do you should go for it there's no pure standard of sexuality you should do whatever you whatever you please whatever your affections are we're teaching women that they're not so valuable as to actually preserve themselves for a man that actually commits themselves to them

24:44

I think you should definitely have like we've adopted a mindset that women are not so valuable and their sexuality not so amazing that it should be reserved for a person who is actually in love with them and committed to them for life we teach women that you can give yourself away to whoever and if they if they throw you away later hey at least you got to enjoy yourself or something to that effect so I think we should teach people that that they're that they are valuable their image bearers of God and sex is actually a beautiful amazing powerful thing that is should be protected and it because we don't teach that of course we have girls with all these guys who are just deadbeats taking advantage of girls taking advantage of their bodies for their own pleasure for their own joy and then just kicking them aside and so you have yeah the abuse of women in our culture

25:30

I think it's because we've abandoned a view of sexuality and women but do you think that fits everyone

25:36

I mean so we know it's not realistic for everybody because every like you said like not everyone has that mindset so what would be more realistic step to take

25:42

I mean obviously no not everyone not everyone's gonna wait until marriage to have sex but so then what's your what's your other solution my secondary solution besides coming into a relationship of peace and forgiveness with God through Christ is that we absolutely should tell people if you're going to go that direction and devalue other human beings in this way and your sexuality of course

26:04

I would prefer someone wears a condom so they don't risk actually creating another life but if you do create a precious human being in the womb you can't kill it yes do you think that anything should happen to the men who then leave their children yes yes yes so okay so I don't want to get into a big but labor detail story of American history but in American history when you had people who were essentially looking to like God's Word and God's law as the standard they saw people as having dignity respect value women were were seen as equal to men and in terms of their value and the human dignity and all the rest and yes actually in God's law if you get somebody pregnant

26:50

God's law commanded that you actually are now required to take care of that woman you can't be abusive to her now leave her in an

26:57

American history if there was a deadbeat dad he can be brought up on criminal charges he had to actually flee to another town if he wasn't going to take care of his kids he had to leave his town because that town so valued the woman and the baby that they would say you are morally responsible to take care of that child we don't even care about that anymore what about the men who leave they we get 99 years for an

27:20

I I'm so glad you asked that can I I I think that the

27:26

Alabama law had a lot lacking and I think one of the things that should be clarified is that anybody who's involved in the murder of an innocent human being anybody should be criminally punished as well well that's what

27:41

I'm saying should be added you need to be in they need to be clear it's not just the it's not just the abortionist but if the father is bringing the child and he's equally guilty he's guilty and that needs to be clarified a lot of situations women are pressured by men to get abortions very much so I'm glad you see it but can

28:06

I just want you guys to this the I think the reason that we all see that together and we despise that kind of hypocrisy is because we're all made in God's image you're all uniquely made by God we all know the same

28:17

God ultimately but I want to say that the reason we know that it's wrong is because we have his law written in our hearts we know that we ought to love other human beings we know that we ought to hate hypocrisy and that's why we do but what

28:29

I'm arguing for is as a Christian is that the answer to our nation is through faith in Christ knowing him having peace with God through what he's done for us is his cross and resurrection that's the ultimate answer is that we need to be changed from the heart up from the heart up one more thing to say and then

28:47

I think we want to go join everybody I get it yeah um but oh my gosh I just totally forgot it's okay take your time feel free no rush no rush like communities used to like what do you say like shun kind of like the husband they would if the guy actually the guy had to actually sorry the guy had to actually leave the town to escape because if he stayed in town he would be put up on criminal charges for not taking care of his child but because we've abandoned

29:13

God's word in our country and we don't have a Christian worldview anymore predominantly nobody thinks like that so secular secular legislators don't think with a biblical worldview where they actually say no there's a standard here and the woman has to be loved and respected and the child we don't think like that anymore

29:32

I've always learned that women were always subservient to men until recently

29:37

I feel like this is a time where actually women have more control and more power and to me this is where I'm feeling more equal to a man then I mean obviously

29:42

I've been around for years but like I just feel like there's more of a time you know what I mean no I'm so glad you asked that and this is I think important because there's a lot of propaganda on both sides by the way

29:51

I'm not I'm not I'm not going Republican at all there's propaganda on both sides of the aisle and the whole idea of like women and our culture now being seen as having more rights and everything else but it's important to note that the worldview taught in schools today doesn't teach that you're valuable it teaches that you and I are the products of purposeless evolutionary processes that didn't have us in mind our ancestors were fish and then we were apes and now we're here we are there's nothing different between you and I and rocks and snails and horses and dogs that's the worldview promulgated in our world today the idea of equality between men and women isn't even historic in in and really most cultures except Christianity because the

30:35

Bible says there's neither male nor female in Jesus Christ and then we're all created as the image of God together so in the biblical worldview from literally

30:44

Genesis chapter 1 men and women are the image of God equal from the start now we do have different roles like I'm a dad my wife's here somewhere there she is she's a mom right we have different roles but according to God's Word from the literally the first chapter we're literally the same there is no one higher or lower we have different functions but think about this the worldview that you and I are taught in public school because I went to public school the worldview that we're taught is that you're a cosmic accident no different than dirt rocks fish literally

31:20

I didn't learn about that in school I never felt that way or felt like that like I never because you're in the image of God and you're not that but that is being taught in school and I want to say that that that worldview so debases you as women it ought to be abandoned and I want to say that what's happening here

31:38

I love and respect you but I want to just suggest you one thing and that's that I can be impacted by my surroundings no question

31:47

I'll confess something I wasn't raised in a Christian church so when I first became a Christian at 16

31:52

I went to a church that actually taught me some things that just weren't even in the Bible and it's I had to actually come to grips with the fact that I was impacted by my teachers and my traditions and I had to ultimately abandon them because I saw that's not what the

32:05

Bible says and I had to turn away from it but I just want to suggest to you in the same way we're all impacted by our traditions and culture and is it possible that you've been impacted by cultural apologetics and propaganda to the degree that you have three beautiful wonderful thoughtful women who love children so much and have so much concern for them but in this case you've adopted a position that comes right in a conflict with that we both agree that there definitely needs to be laws to be helping these mothers and families with who may be thinking about getting an abortion but until that is seen

32:40

I don't think it's okay to take away a woman's choice and not even a woman's a man and woman's if they both decide that they cannot have a child then

32:50

I don't think it's fair to take that away without any other laws being put in place to help them first I think yeah yeah and I think like I said like if I think there was more steps taken ahead of time maybe we'd be on the same side like if there was more steps taken on the say like like I said my whole education and like contraceptives like and those are still disregarding there's like thousands of abortions still happening then maybe be like wait a second there is something still like kind of off and then

33:12

I would probably on the same side like talking about it but as of right now I think there's so much like gray area still like I see you're saying like is murder okay in like the womb and I'm like I see what you're saying

33:22

I don't want to say yes yeah but like I don't want to make that but in this in these circumstances you think we should be able to kill humans in the womb yeah

33:30

I yeah I think that's what we're here for and that's it's our choice and that's a choice that we are allowed to make for now and until then we will fight for that choice until laws are put in place to help us instead of just hurt our families and children coming into the world can

33:47

I just say one last word as you guys go I don't believe that you really believe that here's why

33:52

I believe that if we went out together for the rest of the day to go eat together and hang out together and we saw another human being abusing another human being we would all stand up together to get in their way to stop them but in this case you've adopted a position that says but in this isolated set case we ought to be able to kill the most innocent and defenseless among us okay there you go okay all right it was