Lecrae and the Woke Parade

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00:01

Non -rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it! Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite?

00:12

Delusional. Delusional is okay in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional.

00:19

You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

00:25

She hung up on me! What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

00:38

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

00:45

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

00:52

Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

00:59

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

01:06

Take an all -easing journey, so you will never be the same again.

01:21

How could a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word. With my whole heart

01:27

I seek you. Let me not wander from your commandments. I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.

01:34

Blessed are you, O Lord. Teach me your statutes. With my lips I declare all the rules of your mouth. In the way of your testimonies

01:40

I delight as much as in all riches. I will mediate, or meditate, excuse me, on your precepts and fix my eyes on your ways.

01:48

I will delight in your statutes. I will not forget your word. There's only one mediator between God and men.

01:56

Mary and Luke. Thanks for joining us. And we're done. Psalm 119, 9 -16.

02:03

You know what's amazing? People that get mad at us for liking the law of God, they've never read Psalm 119.

02:10

You know what I'm saying? They must not have. It's law -heavy, baby. He loves it. It's his delight.

02:17

Not everyone's perfect. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio.

02:24

I am in the captain's chair again as Pastor Jeff is in California for the

02:30

Bonson Conference, which is a heavy lineup. Almost went to that myself. Here I am.

02:35

You did almost go to that. We're in Christmas season again, a few minutes last week, so we're just going for it.

02:42

You guys are doing Christmas stuff? Christmas is a very big deal around here. I don't think you understand. We'll get into that one.

02:48

Not for me personally. I love Christmas, but they like in advance. We're already doing Christmas along with the church.

02:54

Yep, November 1st for me. Pray for you guys. We're all in. Actually, if it was up to Pastor Jeff, we would have started doing

03:01

Christmas probably in July. Yeah, he's next level. But here we are. So he's at the

03:07

Bonson Conference, which, by the way, we love the Bonson family. David Bonson has been amazing to us and has given us his dad's library, which you can sign up for free at BonsonU .edu.

03:20

Oh, no. Is it .com? That's going to be Apologyistudios .com to get to all that.

03:27

Just go there. Yeah, if you want to bring it on down to Bonsonville, then you've got to go to Apologyistudios. Bring it on down to Bonsonville.

03:33

I have too many things in my head right now. Forgive me. So, yes, I go there.

03:39

It's cool. Don't miss out. I also want to mention our partners who are sponsoring us and partnering with us in ministry.

03:46

That would be the Armored Republic and New St. Andrews College in Moscow, Idaho. We love them all.

03:52

They're amazing. We're excited to be partnering with them. If you need body armor, if these elections got you scared, we're not even going to get into that today.

04:00

We'll save that for a later date. That's for a separate show. Yeah, we're not done with the votes yet, apparently, in Arizona.

04:07

So we'll get into that later. But if you're scared, go get yourself some body armor at ArmoredRepublic .com.

04:12

Actually, it's AR500 .com, but AR500Armor .com. My websites are all wrong today.

04:20

Anyways, NSA .edu for New St. Andrews. Actually, I do know for a fact, we won't have a show next week because of Thanksgiving.

04:28

But the following week, we'll have Dr. Ben Merkle in studio with both eyes operating.

04:33

Oh, right on. Yeah, he's a beast. I'm glad to hear he's doing better. Yeah, he'll be here in town in studio. I think that's the 9th of September.

04:41

That was a gnarly photo we saw at ReformCon. Yeah, that was awful. He's like, maybe I can make it out.

04:46

I don't even know this guy. I don't want to tell him straight up no. Yeah, take it easy. It was bad. So, anyways, you probably are wondering who this good -looking dude to my right is with that amazing hair.

05:00

This is Jon Root. If you missed ReformCon 22, he was the emcee and he killed it.

05:06

And we're very excited to have him in studio today. He works for Turning Point Faith. So, Jon, welcome in studio.

05:14

Tell everyone about yourself and how you got your hair to look so good. Well, a lot of prayer and product.

05:23

But, yeah, I work for TPUSA Faith. So, if you've heard of Turning Point USA, you guys know Charlie Kirk right here in Phoenix, Arizona.

05:30

I've been involved with them for about a year and a half as a contributor. So, I'm a contributor and then creative producer on the faith side.

05:38

So, I think Charlie obviously talks about it a ton. It's like making sure that a foundation,

05:43

God's word, is established a little bit more in America. Because, obviously, there's so much going on now, like HR 8404.

05:51

And people are just like, well, why are you getting so up in arms about marriage? And it's like, well, it comes down to just what's the truth?

05:56

What's the foundation? And I think we put on some incredible events that I've been happy to be a part of.

06:02

Like AmericaFest is coming up next month. Where's that at? Is that here? It's at the convention center.

06:07

So, it's like 10 ,000 people inside the convention center. And, sure, it gets you riled up in a good way.

06:14

Like empowering and equipping and getting people so excited about America again.

06:20

And we've got 10 ,000 people around. And it's not just a super heavy political conference. But even at these conferences, people are so gung ho for conservatism.

06:28

Like we're all going to be similar in the way we view politics. But people have a

06:34

God -sized hole in their heart. And starting to realize, okay, how do we make sure that we're connecting with the right pastors?

06:40

Who kept their churches open to connect them with other people. Because so many times, I think the world wants them to feel like they're on an island.

06:46

And, for me, as a contributor, I work more on the media side of stuff. I'm building out a show. Our good friend, John Cooper, he's going to be involved in that.

06:54

That show is coming out early next year. We're super excited. Because it's a little bit more like, not like, hey, let's sit down and let's chat about CRT.

07:01

It's more just like, hey, your skill set, we're talking about how you use that for Christ. And being a part of TPSA Faith has been pretty incredible.

07:08

You may be shooting some things I heard, too. We're definitely shooting some stuff. That's awesome. Oh, yeah. I got that KSG shotgun from Caltech.

07:16

I felt like John Wick Root out there. Oh, baby. Got eight bullets in that baby.

07:23

Two -way all day. It's like that video where Keanu Reeves is, like, practicing, right? You've seen that?

07:28

Where he's, like, warming up on those targets and stuff. And it's like, dude really is Neo. Yeah, he's legit. Like, he is

07:33

Neo. For sure. Yeah. I think there's another one coming out I saw, isn't there? Yeah, number four.

07:40

Can't get enough. I got enough of the Matrix movies. I didn't even see the new one. I was like,

07:45

I'm not even. Don't waste your life. I heard. Wow. Coincidentally, that will lead us into a beautiful segue.

07:52

Wow. How about that? That was incredible. Well played. Did you do that on purpose? No. It just happened naturally.

07:57

It just came right out. It was organic. Organic. Well, I guess we'll just go from there. We're talking about Lecrae today.

08:03

Can't pass that segue up. Yeah. I have listened to Lecrae off and on over the years, so I'm not, like, a huge Lecrae fan.

08:12

You definitely know him. You as well, I think, know his music inside and out. Yeah.

08:19

So if you guys didn't see, he came out with a song. It just was a couple weeks ago. I think I sent it to you. Brand new album. Yeah. Brand new album.

08:24

Church Goes Four. And the song was still in America, which... Sorry. Bug flying on my face.

08:31

It's going to be a crazy show today. And this doesn't happen at Turning Point.

08:36

They don't have bugs flying around. They know their websites. It's all good. So, I'm going to let

08:43

Zach kind of set up the background and the history to this conversation as far as where...

08:51

I mean, one thing about Lecrae is which kind of skyrocketed him, which we've done shows where we praised him, where he was in the public sphere, in the public square, basically, with his music, standing up for Christ and not being afraid to...

09:07

Unashamed, right? Unashamed, exactly. Yeah. And then the

09:12

Woke Parade started, and he kind of fell into that, and it's going to kind of bring us to where we are today.

09:18

So, I'll let you kind of give some history as... Yeah. I mean, in terms of music, Christian hip hop is his flavor and where he comes from, and he really kind of came up...

09:28

I think 06 was his first album, 05 or 06. So, him and Andy Mineo and Trip Lee and Tadashi and KB, all those guys kind of run in the same camp,

09:41

Christian hip hop. And when their music first started, a lot of people gravitated towards it.

09:46

And a lot of Christians did, I think, lyrically, because they were very, very talented, and they were producing good content, good music, and it was very explicitly scriptural and Christian, right?

09:57

So, you have... And it was good beats, too. Yeah. Quality. All we had was Toby Mac. Yeah. Who's your hip hop guy?

10:04

Togg, yeah, all that stuff. Yeah. You know D .C. Togg, right? You know them better. I'm older than all of you.

10:09

Yeah, yeah. They were before my time. Anyways. So, yeah. I mean, when I first, you know, I would say the

10:15

Lord first got a hold of my heart, like, I stumbled onto Lecrae and, like, that whole genre. And I loved it.

10:20

Because I love poetry. I love spoken word. But that kind of music in particular, you know, people were being bold with their faith, talking about Jesus, talking about, you know, being unashamed of the gospel and how to live in the world and not compromise and all this stuff.

10:34

And then, I'm not quite sure, you know, when it happened, but there was a shift, you know, in the focus of their music.

10:42

So, it went from being, you know, more explicitly Christian, scriptural to what

10:47

I think they would have referred to as, it's not just music for the church that we want to make.

10:53

It's music from the church, right? So, in other words, we want to talk about things that are other than just, you know, explicitly scriptural, right?

11:01

We want to talk about fatherhood and absence of that kind of stuff and, you know.

11:06

Which I think is great. It is. It's all good. If you're coming from a biblical perspective and grounded in scripture.

11:12

Yeah. It just kind of, you could tell there was a shift and, you know, Shilin and some of those guys started to point it out, you know, like, hey, the whole mission of your record label was a lot more explicit.

11:24

And now, it kind of moved into this direction where, you know, it's hard to tell. So, what's up?

11:30

Like, what changed? Reach records started getting bigger and bigger. Right. And then, obviously. Broke over into the mainstream, you know.

11:36

That's really where he, you know, started collaborating with different artists, too. Like, people that would be mainstream hip -hop artists, pop artists, that sort of thing.

11:45

Yeah. Because even Church Closed, when it was initially announced that, like, Lecrae was going to start going, like, into the world,

11:51

I guess. Or have some sort of crossover with mainstream hip -hop. I remember, like, I was actually a huge proponent for this.

11:57

I was like, I'm actually fascinated to see how this interaction works. Like, make sure that this project is still glorifying to God.

12:04

We're not going to get sound theology from some of these guys. But, like, how can you create music that is still glorifying, but you're still telling a story about, like, where he grew up and the struggles of that.

12:17

Everything, but not in the sense of, hey, let's glorify drugs and alcohol and disrespecting women.

12:24

And, I mean, when the first Church Closed came out, I was like, this is cool. This is good beats.

12:30

This is an interesting connection here. And I was hoping that would lead to more conversations about, like, where are these guys at on their faith journey?

12:38

What's going on in the hip -hop world? And we're always trying to figure out how to insert ourselves in those conversations and in those spheres.

12:47

And I was like, Lecrae's probably going to be the guy. Yeah, he's doing it. It seems like he just got totally influenced by the fame and marks.

12:56

And you talk about the idea of being, like, from the church. I think it turned into being like, yeah,

13:02

I'm Christian, and my music is Christian, but the better question is, are you godly, and is your music godly?

13:09

I think that's where they fell off a little bit. And you mentioned our friend John Cooper earlier. I think that's one thing

13:15

Skillet has done amazing. He has found the balance. He's never compromised once, and if anything, he's gotten even more sound in his theology and his songs and stuff.

13:25

They're touring with Korn and all these major new metal bands and stuff.

13:33

He's done really well. I forget which song it is. It has one of the most downloads ever on Spotify.

13:40

I think it's insane. Anyways, not to derail the conversation, but I think that's an example of how you do that appropriately.

13:48

And clearly what we're going to get into here is I think Lecrae has not done it the best.

13:56

Well, since then, the music, there's still references to the Bible and references to Jesus and even the titles of the albums and whatnot, but I think it's been more of the ideologies that are coming through what he's saying.

14:13

That's really where things have started to transition now to where you would see a desire to make the biblical worldview secondary or supplemental to my own experience.

14:30

So, you know, reading everything through a racial lens and having that be the framework through which you interpret and see everything else because all these guys,

14:42

I'm sure they have very valid experiences, like things that really did happen to them and things that they know happened to other people in the neighborhoods they grew up in and that's a very real part of their experience.

14:52

But that has seemed to supplant having the biblical worldview as the foundation for everything that they see through.

15:02

And I think you kind of see it come through in their music, but also where it kind of turned the corner, at least in Lecrae's journey, what seemed to was the incidents of Michael Brown and the shooting and everything that happened with him, which led to speaking out about police brutality and the fact about there being partiality towards black people and inequity.

15:26

And once that kind of came to the surface and more of a public platform, it sounded a lot more like these foreign worldviews that we've seen infect the church the past several years.

15:39

So, of course, critical theory, offshoots of Marxism, critical social justice theory, critical racism, everyone that would popularize this kind of teaching, that's what seems to come through now a little bit more, especially.

15:55

And speaking out against those things publicly kind of has really taken things in a different direction.

16:01

And now you see with his music, kind of where his music's gone, it's a little bit, especially with the newest one,

16:08

Church Closed 4, it seems to be a little bit schizophrenic. Yeah. Because he's saying good things.

16:14

Yeah. But he's also saying things that line up, that wouldn't line up with the

16:20

Christian worldview, I don't think. Well, he mentions Michael Brown. Right. He mentions Breonna Taylor.

16:26

So if you listen to the first song of Church Closed 4, it's basically like, hey, I'm here and I'm going to bring up these names and I'm going to stand by it, like, you know,

16:35

Warnock's not my guy, Herschel Walker isn't my guy, so it seems like I'm playing in this camp a little bit, but I'm also playing in this camp.

16:42

That's what he desperately wants people to think about him, and I think that's even where we'll get into my interaction with him, is he doesn't want to be seen as like, oh,

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I'm not progressive, I'm not liberal, I'm not conservative, you know, I'm just, I'm kingdom.

16:56

Right. That was a tweet. Yeah. He tweeted that. He put that out there and it's like, well, it's either you're with God or against him.

17:03

Exactly. It's like, I could care less people can get into the whole Christian nationalism thing or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but like, you're going to be known by your fruits.

17:10

It's like you've hung out with Stacey Abrams and basically promoted her and said that she's someone that your daughter should look up to.

17:15

Raphael Warnock, you've connected with him to try to push the vaccine and his platform some more, and you're connecting with people on one side of the aisle.

17:24

Yeah. But you don't want to be put into a certain box. Yeah. I'm sure it's very difficult for him to try to navigate this space while his platform grows.

17:33

Of course. I don't envy that at all. No way. But like, if people have questions, you're probably going to need an answer, especially when it comes to this

17:43

Christian circle. Yeah. It's like, I don't care if you are like so on board with the

17:49

GOP. It's like, none of us are going to say like, oh, the Republicans are really doing something great. It's like, no. It's what you're promoting and the way you're living for God or not.

17:59

Right. And why do you support these people and not others? Yeah. Do you feel like they're going to help, you know, grow the kingdom here in America or at least point people to the right direction?

18:09

And then like, not like objective truth, not subjective truth, like all this stuff.

18:16

It's like we have questions, but we're not getting answers. And then he seems like he's just subtweeting people consistently. And I think you raise a key issue in all of this is the reason we're demanding clarification is because his language and the language of others has been intentionally equivocal.

18:35

It's been, in many cases, ambiguous on a lot of things. Like it's, I don't want to say it's necessarily doublespeak, but it's just unclear.

18:44

And so you have to be clear with what you're saying. And so I'm not conservative.

18:50

I'm not liberal. I'm kingdom. It's this effort to kind of find this third way in the middle, which is popularized by a lot of the elite evangelical class that is pulling one way politically.

19:03

So when I hear you talking like they talk, that's concerning because they're pulling the church ideologically, politically, theologically in a certain direction.

19:13

So is that the way you're pulling them? Because you talk like them. That's why it matters. Yeah. No, that's great.

19:20

And I think let's just, let's just play off of that a little bit. You know, this idea of I'm not conserving the liberal kingdom.

19:26

Like, well, yeah, so are we. Right. But, but the problem is that, you know, and where you can interact with them is, you know, you start promoting leftists like hardcore leftists that are very much anti Christ's kingdom, you know, and in very much in support of the culture of death.

19:48

Like you can't sit there and say, well, I'm for, I'm the only kingdom when you're promoting people that are like the, the leaders in wanting to kill children in the womb.

20:01

Yeah. Well, destroy the family and destroy all of their platforms run on a destruction of the family unit, which is

20:09

God's basic building block for society and postmodernism. That's it. Yeah. And then it gets into deconstructionism.

20:14

Yeah. And then deconstruction is actually the name of one of his songs in the album.

20:20

It's the final one, right? Yeah. On the album, yeah. It's the final one. And what you were saying before about him being so ambiguous and just kind of like,

20:27

God, like you're wishy -washy about this stuff. And then you feel like, oh, like God, only

20:32

God can judge me. Like, I'll just talk to him. But he had a tweet six days ago.

20:38

And I thought it was interesting because it goes exactly off of what you're saying. He tweeted, some people have asked why

20:43

I named the last song Deconstruction on Church Goes 4. That's a long conversation, but the people who need to hear it are hearing it.

20:51

And for me, I was like, I've listened to the whole album. I was fascinated because I've actually chatted with a bunch of different people in the hip hop industry.

21:01

Be like, hey, here was my interaction here. Let me get a better understanding of how he could view it. Because we were his demographic when he was getting big.

21:09

Yeah, sure. Young, white evangelicals. And then I think some of them were saying he feels maybe disrespected in some way.

21:18

And they're never going to understand what he went through growing up. And then even the social justice stuff. But I think that started getting into the racial representation over godliness.

21:28

But even this year, I responded to him like, hey, brother, why leave the details of this song up for interpretation?

21:35

We know what deconstructionism is. And is this really what you believe?

21:40

What do you think about fault lines by Votie Bauckham? Who do you go to for spiritual mentorship? There's plenty of questions.

21:47

Might as well clarify. Sure. Why leave it up for people to be like, well, this is what

21:52

I got out of it. This is not an art piece. The Bible is not like an art piece where you're like, hmm, I'm kind of getting this out of it.

21:58

I kind of like that little bit here. Obviously, people do that. But the Bible is in context.

22:04

And then if you're going to be representing God, it's got to be plain. What are you saying here? Is deconstructionism something that you were dabbling in?

22:11

And not anymore. Just tell us. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can get a sense of it from the lyrics. Like where he's coming from, kind of.

22:18

There was hardship. Then he kind of questioned the way people treated him, the decisions that he made.

22:25

And now he's seeing the scriptures in the context in which they were made to be seen, like in the ancient

22:30

Near East context or what have you. And so you can kind of trace some of his journey. But again, just be clear.

22:38

Like mean what you say. Say what you mean. Tell us what it is. Tell us what the truth is that you're trying to convey.

22:44

Because we can't—I don't think it's acceptable to say, well, it's art. Like art is objective.

22:51

It's either good, true, and beautiful, or it's not. And so as a Christian, which is what you're saying, you know, still you are.

22:59

And I don't see any reason why I wouldn't call him a Christian still. Like he professes faith in Jesus.

23:04

I'm sure he loves Jesus. And so the issue is what's your music communicating?

23:10

Is it truth? Does it accord with the truth? Does it line up with the truth?

23:15

I think that's what everybody's wondering. And when it seems to be this constant guesswork game, or it sounds a lot like these other evangelical leaders that, you know, promote the third way and try to ride this middle line of neutrality to not fall off of one end or the other, we would like a little bit of clarification.

23:39

Yeah, well, it's this whole idea of the myth of neutrality. Yeah, let's appeal to everybody. It feels like, and that's why when

23:46

I saw this song come up, I immediately sent it to John. I was like, because, you know, for a while he seems to be, you know, pulling left, right?

23:54

At least center left on things. And then all of a sudden he drops this song and it was like, he's like trying to walk down the middle somewhere, you know?

24:02

And it was like, you can't be neutral on all these things. Which, you know, we talk about that all the time, just this myth.

24:10

And, you know, in the song, it seems like he doesn't want to get political, but it's like, bro, like everything you're saying is political.

24:18

And we talk about this all the time. Politics is just legislative morality. Right, but whose morality? Exactly. The question isn't, are we going to legislate morality?

24:27

It's whose morality we're going to legislate. And if he's promoting those that are trying to legislate things that are clear cut immoral, according to God's standards, that's a problem.

24:40

Yeah. You know, and so you can't, you can't try to play neutral and act like, you know, you're not going to go one way or the other and be just kingdom because kingdom is our standard, right?

24:52

That's right. And so like, we have no problem calling out those in the conservative side and the Republicans that are, you know, we've been doing a lot of it actually when it comes to ending abortion.

25:02

Like, you know, those in the, on the conservative side that are not acting or not putting in just laws according to God's standards, we're going to call you out for that because we are kingdom minded, but you can't, you can't, you can't try to walk down the middle and play both sides.

25:17

And that's the problem. That's the point. I think you just nailed it right there is we would not sit here for one moment and pontificate on this idea that the

25:25

Republican party is the Christian party. Right. Not for one moment. However, what you just said is the key.

25:32

We can look at that party, look at their professed values and hold them accountable based on what they say they believe.

25:39

Exactly. I can't do that with the other party in the same way because their platforms are completely antithetical to the truth.

25:46

Yeah. I can call them to repentance and call them to obey Jesus and say what they're doing is completely evil according to God's objective standard.

25:51

But I can look over here and say, listen, you guys say you're about preservation of the family. You guys say you're about limited government.

25:59

Um, you know, you guys say you're about, uh, you know, protecting marriage, protecting life, uh, protecting, um, you know, the right for us to defend ourselves.

26:07

All of those things I can look at and say, okay, that's, that's consistent with God's standards.

26:12

So why aren't you doing that? Why aren't you doing what you say you were going to do when I voted for you?

26:18

Right. That's, it's perfectly normal. I can do that. So while we're sitting here, not saying that this is the

26:23

Christian party, we are saying like, these are the values that they say they still run on. So we have that leverage to be able to grab them and say, look at your feet is what you're saying consistent with what you're doing.

26:34

And we can't do that with the other party in the same way. And then if you have a public platform, they're going to be called out.

26:40

And if people are seeing like your fruit, and that is connecting with just people on the left that are clearly not

26:47

Bible believing, like Warnock is not a pastor. You can't be pro abortion and then call yourself a pastor.

26:54

That's right. That's just, it's not true. So you can't say, and like, it's funny right now, like obviously like we can go into, uh, the

27:05

Mormon church in a lot of different ways, but specifically right now, with this respect, respect for marriage act. Yeah.

27:10

They're trying to say, Oh, the marriage is only between a man and a woman, but we're going to support this law.

27:17

Like you can't serve two masters. You can't be wishy -washy here. And, um, even the

27:23

Republican side of things here, I have talked to people so much about it during the midterms. And I think Lecrae was dropping this album at a specific time.

27:31

And I know with my interaction, there was a reason why he wasn't going to get on a podcast and chat like this.

27:37

Um, because number one, I'm sure there was maybe a fear of man involved. Sure. Number two, maybe he's looking at me as a, maybe this guy's just trying to win an argument.

27:46

Obviously I think with my interaction with him, I showed that like, Hey, this is good faith. You were very gracious.

27:52

And everything, but like number three, it's like the Republican party has a ton of corruption. There's some evil people in the

27:58

Republican party that are just C -nos. They're Christians in name only. But I, that is the only place

28:04

I see in our politics where there's actually Bible believing in Christ -centered Christians there.

28:09

Yeah. We need to call them out. And then Ali Besteki had a really good tweet the other day where someone's like,

28:15

Oh man, you're, you seem to be so like pro -Trump right now. Like why don't you ever call them out? It's like, here's this, here's this, here's this, here's this.

28:22

Like we have, we have the receipts. We call these out. We're going to call it the rights. We're going to call it the wrongs, but also it just comes down to, we don't bow down to the altar of conservatism.

28:30

We don't bow down to the GOP. We bow down to Jesus Christ. And we want people to have power that are actually making sure they're living up to God's standards, not our standards, not apology as standards, not

28:43

TV USA, faith standards, God's standards. Amen. All right. Well, amen to that.

28:49

Let's go. So tell us about your interaction. I guess it was about a month ago or so, right?

28:55

Cause it was right before reform con, which by the way, I forgot to mention, I'm wearing my woke as broke shirt, but you can find it at a shop that apology is studios .com.

29:04

Hopefully I got the website right on that. Um, actually, so I, I meant to mention this at the beginning. We have a bunch of merch leftover from reform con.

29:13

Um, so I've been getting a lot of questions about this. Our woke is broke shirt, which we actually made a year ago for, um, the old, uh, flip full, uh, conference in Tennessee.

29:24

That's fight left. Oh, Um, and so we had a bunch left over. I have still, still some have left over.

29:31

I know people were asking about those and I didn't wear it today, but my new favorite shirt, probably the, my favorite shirt we've ever done is the

29:37

Moses, not marks. Um, it's a great shirt. I was completely by accident too. It was seemingly not in God's council.

29:44

We actually, you were on that show. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff accidentally came up with it right on the fly and I was like,

29:50

T -shirt, that's just how things happen around here. I'm just glad to be along for the ride. And you know, I was like, man, that was good. So those are available.

29:56

I love those shirts. Those are on, on the shop as well. And, um, if you met, if you're at reform con and weren't able to get a shirt, we have some leftover limited supply.

30:06

Those are half off right now. And if you weren't at reform con and want one, go get yourself one.

30:11

Christmas is coming up. Um, for those who like us and want to help support what we're doing.

30:16

So, uh, anyways, I meant to mention that earlier. Sorry. I know that it seems like I forced it in there, but, uh,

30:23

I may have, um, okay. Uh, well, I forgot what we were going to say. Oh yes.

30:28

So tell us about your interaction. Yeah, I'll give you, I'll give you the breakdown, um, as clear and concise as I possibly can.

30:34

Cause there were so many just different threads and then it got, it's messy Twitter to, I decided to put on Instagram and then we had a

30:41

DMS, but basically it started with Lecrae's tweet. Like we were mentioning earlier, I'm not progressive. I'm not liberal.

30:47

I'm not conservative. I'm kingdom. Yeah. And then Sean Foyt, uh, worship leader, um, decided to put an old

30:55

Instagram photo of Lecrae and Stacey Abrams and just had a caption that said, really?

31:02

Question mark. Yeah. And that's when I was like, that's how it popped up on my Twitter feed.

31:08

I was like, okay, this is interesting. Again, like we talked about, you're not trying to get put in a box, but I'm looking by your free.

31:15

This is, this is what I see. So I, um, um, decided to respond after he responded to Sean.

31:22

He said, Hey, I'll be the first to admit. I didn't know her stances. I did know that my daughter needed to see representation of herself in society.

31:30

Now I would, I would, now would I trade unbiblical views for representation? No. If you didn't grow up without healthy representation, you probably wouldn't understand.

31:40

So that gets into like a multifaceted thing of yes, representation over godliness.

31:46

And I can, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the lens through which he sees reality. And obviously we just saw what happened with the election here with Kamala Harris.

31:53

And it's just like, Oh, it's so great to see a woman up there and a woman of color, blah, blah. It's like, as Christians, like, are they living up to biblical standards here?

32:01

You're supposed to be living your life off biblical standards. And he put in the caption and that's what I ended up calling them out for.

32:07

I was like, Hey, I'm a little confused. Uh, I was, I was poking a little bit, but not in like trying to annoy him.

32:13

Like, Hey, I'm actually generally interested in getting some clarity to this here. So I just said, I'm confused.

32:18

You mentioned her stances in the caption of the Instagram photo. So you can't play the ignorance card at all.

32:27

And then he responds to me. It's just like, uh, that was the point, not because she knows your stances.

32:33

And then I shared it and he ended up saying, dear Stacey Abrams, my daughter looks up to you and she's nine, not because she's familiar with your stances.

32:41

So, and that's where he got into another thing of like, okay, like, Oh, you need to read the whole post.

32:47

And I'm like, I'm happy to read the whole post, but you took it down for some reason. So like, let's get a little bit more. Yeah. Let's get some clarity.

32:54

Let's make sure that like, I'm not looking at it in a certain way because I got my own biases. No doubt.

32:59

We all do. So just put it out there and explain it. Not for me, but for everybody that looks to you.

33:06

Cause that's the big thing. It's like, I am nobody in this conversation. You don't speak to me.

33:11

We, we speak to God on these issues and we're supposed to be representing him. And then it was one of those like,

33:16

Hey, you had a deleted tweet and he had a deleted IgE posts. Like I I'm just interested. Um, and I was like, would you denounce her stances now?

33:25

So I'm going to ask that question. And then, um, radio silence. Yeah.

33:31

And then I asked him something else. Too, when he had a, so I was like, all right,

33:36

I'm going to keep this train rolling. And I ended up saying, uh, Lecrae, uh, a lyric he had

33:41

Lord kill me if I don't preach the gospel. Also Lecrae. Uh, he promoted this guy that went to, um, he got his master's in theology at the

33:50

Southern Baptist theological seminary. It's Kyle Howard. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and he ended up saying that in may of 2021,

33:56

I graduate, uh, I graduate with my master's in theology today. I won't be there to, uh, to walk down the aisle to get my diploma, because even in the site of my seminary's campus is trauma triggering, triggering to me.

34:08

And my wife seminary was a dehumanizing and traumatic experience for me and my family.

34:13

And then Lecrae ended up saying, congrats and consider yourself Moses for being schooled by the

34:18

Egyptians. So you can help with the Exodus. So it was all these things where it's like, Hey, I I'm seeing all these things that just don't line up.

34:27

Biblically theologically they're off. It seems like there's a racial representation over godliness.

34:33

And he said to me that he still stood by that tweet. Okay. And at that point it's like, okay, explain like,

34:41

I'd like to hear. So it's not just, Hey, we have 140 characters, right? Like let's, let's actually go to this. So he didn't answer to that one.

34:48

And then I decided I'm taking it to Instagram. And then he basically just tried to tell me like, you wouldn't have it.

34:53

Like we hear from tons, tons of people. There's no way that you're, um, thinking we could have a fruitful, good conversation.

35:01

All you want to do is just call me out. It's like, no, like I think that's probably the best way to love you.

35:07

Yeah. Do I go about things perfect? No. Do I have a little bit of pride about this stuff and let that rule me?

35:13

Sure. Um, do I have a major zeal for the gospel and Jesus Christ? Of course. But like, let's have a conversation.

35:19

Then it turned into him responding in the comments and then we took it to DMS and it was very condescending in the

35:25

DMS and very much like a, Hey, you don't even know the origin of woke. Um, read this book and educate yourself and then maybe we'll have a, yeah.

35:34

And that's where I was just like, Hey, I understand where woke came from and I understand how so many things have been redefined and weaponized.

35:44

But like when people think of woke here, that's what matters. Obviously we know where marriage came from, but that's been redefined in a lot of ways.

35:54

So that's when it was like, we know what love is. That's been redefined. So like we got to talk about the definitions of terms here.

36:00

And all I'm trying to do is, Hey, let's have a conversation. What do you think about abortion? Why do you support

36:05

Stacey Abrams and Raphael Warnock? Um, why do you believe that you're going to prescribe to this one way of thinking and think the other way is, is so bad.

36:15

And then it turned into, I don't really think you're educated on this. You're not really worth my time.

36:21

That's it. It was, it was a huge bummer, but I think it turned into like, all right, wow, this actually led to a little bit more of a conversation.

36:28

I don't know if I'll ever have a conversation with him. If people are betting people out there, I don't know how Christian that would be.

36:33

I'm not going to promote sponsored by fan duel, but that can be, that can be one of two things too.

36:40

It can be, you mentioned Vodi. I mean, he coined the term ethnic Gnosticism, which is essentially, you haven't walked a mile in my shoes, so you don't know.

36:50

Yeah. I have this special knowledge because of my sectionality. Right. I have this special knowledge because of my experience, and that Trump's everything

36:57

Trump's truth. And again, that lens through which you see everything, but it's also kind of the attitude of a lot of intellectual, evangelical elites too.

37:07

You're not on my level. Yeah. You know, you need these credentials first. You need to, you know, have these letters in your name.

37:14

I'm not saying that's what he said, but I'm trying to provide some possibilities as to, okay, this is a good faith discussion between brothers.

37:22

There's genuine concern over this. And so this is how you respond to that. You know, you don't want to know, you don't care, or in a sense, you're not on my level.

37:31

I mean, in a very, you know, off -putting way. So, I mean, what is it, you know?

37:37

And that's where I'd go back to, like, there's no doubt for Lecrae there's hurt. Oh, sure. Yeah. From his base and hurt from even some of the stuff he covered in church close for like, he continues to open up about his past and his childhood and, and everything.

37:52

And, and obviously we care deeply and empathize with the hurt that, that people go through.

38:00

So I hope nobody would ever think with any of us that we're going into something like, hopefully

38:06

I win this debate with Lecrae. It's like, no, let's get down to like what the truth is. Talk about your experience, but stop using experience like LeBron James does as painted a broad brush that this is happening to everybody in this racial demographic or like, it's, it's being on both sides where it's like, if you're white, sit down, shut up, but also silence is violence.

38:26

So like, what do you want us to do? And then it's just like, Hey, this side, we got to elevate these people.

38:32

You sit down for a little bit, be quiet. And then we'll get to this point of equity and equality. It's like, is that biblical at all?

38:40

Like what, what foundation are you basing this off of? And it's just, it's becoming more and more dangerous, more and more divided.

38:47

And then it comes into like, Oh, I'm following Christ, but kind of in this little specific way. And it almost becomes like a denomination inside of a denomination or something.

38:54

It's like, it's, it's odd. Well, look, we're all white cisgender males here, right? So we're not allowed. We have zero intersections.

39:01

We have zero hope for having any intersections. And so what you experience is what you just said.

39:07

You're a white cisgender male. Shut up. You don't understand. You're never going to understand, read this sort of a thing.

39:13

And that's kind of, you know, that's where they're at with things. And it's crazy. I mean, what stinks is when he says he's kingdom minded with the concern.

39:23

And I'm not, I don't want to just outright accuse him of this, but the concern is, Hey brother, it kind of seems like the kingdom you're promoting has a color preference.

39:33

Yeah. Right. And so the, the issue is like, I'm not even going to say racism is tribalism.

39:39

Like it's your tribe. Like when you say to Stacy Abrams, my daughter looks up to you and she doesn't even know your, what you stand for.

39:48

It's because of her skin color. Right. It's because of the tribe she represents. And so like, the question is like,

39:55

Hey, like, is it, is it Christ kingdom that you're all about? Or is it, you know, the kingdom of darker skin?

40:04

Like, and so that's, that's the concern. I think when that, I'm glad you brought that up. That seems like what it, what it boils down to.

40:10

And that's concerning. And it's like, man, I, there's this one clip. I've listened to Charlie a lot, Charlie Kirk, the last few days with the election stuff.

40:18

And there's a clip. He keeps playing. You've probably heard it of somebody, some, some young man at a

40:24

Q and a or something. And, you know, I was upset with Charlie for not apologizing for, you know, white racism and all that.

40:31

And Charlie's like, look, I don't, I'm like, I don't care about racism. It was like, are you a hard worker? Are you like a good person that goes on the list?

40:38

Like, I don't care what color you are. And like, that's what we're saying. Like, especially when it comes to the kingdom, I'm like, I don't care what color you are.

40:44

Are you trusting in Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Yes. Okay. Well then the great commission then says to teach you all that he has commanded.

40:51

So like, are you living up to those commandments? So were you going to say something? I mean,

40:57

I felt like I caught you off. You know, it's, it's all concerning. And obviously there's, there's nothing but love for the

41:03

Cray and all those guys here. And I wish the best for them and hope that God continues to bless them.

41:10

But if it means that, that we're going to be taken, you know, in a particular direction, that's going to be colored by the way we see the world through this foreign lens, then it's obviously not something that, you know, we can get behind.

41:23

It's gotta be gospel first. And that gospel that we preach is a gospel that says that Jesus Christ has made one new man in place of the two.

41:34

So Ephesians chapter two, he has reconciled us together. By the blood of his cross, he's made us a new people.

41:43

All of those artificial designations that separated us before have been dealt with in his body on that tree.

41:51

And now there is a new humanity reconciled to God and reconciled to one another. And if you look at that passage, what is the theme of Ephesians together?

41:59

It's this cosmic reconciliation that Jesus is accomplishing in the world. He's the focal point and all of history is being drawn to him.

42:07

That's what the salvation of this wonderful people, this select people is all about. But then as he reconciles a hostile world to himself, that's alienated from him by sin, that reconciliation broadens out into interpersonal human relationships with people that don't look like you.

42:27

And so Jew and Gentile, all of these things now reconciled, dealt with, accomplished. There has been a death that has occurred to reconcile these polarized people groups that have nothing in common, brings them together, gives them a new identity, gives them a new humanity.

42:42

It doesn't mean that these distinctions don't matter. It doesn't mean that God doesn't love variety or color or all of these wonderful things that he puts in the world because he's a good creator.

42:51

But it does mean that reconciliation and redemption have been accomplished. And that's something to live from, not to work towards in the sense that it's accomplished.

43:02

And now we need to believe in Jesus and we need to live like reconciled people. Yeah. No, I was just going to say,

43:07

I'm so glad you brought that up. That's Colossians one of me talking about all the time. Christ came to reconcile all things, right?

43:13

That's, that's the job we've been given as his vice chair, just to reconcile all things to him.

43:19

And that's one of the biggest issues with wokeism is there is no reconciliation. You know, if you're white, especially, there's no amount of payment you can give in order to atone.

43:31

Exactly. And we've seen that over the past several years. What can you do to make up the difference? You brought up two examples.

43:37

Do you want me to speak or do you want me to be silent? You know, it's never enough. You can't pay enough. You can't get enough.

43:43

You can't do enough in order to be righteous enough. And that's because at bottom, it's not the gospel of scripture.

43:51

You know, there's been a payment. There's been work accomplished already. That's why something like deconstructionism is so terrifying because can we talk about that?

44:00

The deconstruction doesn't, it doesn't stop. Go ahead. It doesn't stop.

44:05

That's the thing. It's all. It's so focused on this post modernism and the elevating man that I'm not going to tell people what happened in the

44:12

DM specifically. Like I'm not going to share those things, but there were some concerning things even based off that.

44:17

And then even listening to this album, it's like, you're basically saying there needs to be a complete deconstruction and then we can build up from there.

44:26

It's a new tower babble. That's all deconstructionism is. And it's just elevating man. Like we can reach heaven and we can reach this point where basically

44:34

God's ourselves and that we can look at scripture from our own context. It's, I know

44:40

I had a good conversation with one of my buddies in Bible study last night that I remember I used to ask the questions after we read a verse or passage, whatever, full chapter.

44:50

And it's like, what'd you get out of that? Fine question. Maybe when you're starting to get into it, but it's more like, Hey, what's the actual context.

44:57

And then now that we know the context and then what is it referencing to? And what did those words actually mean in context?

45:03

And then from there, you know, how does this point us to Christ or how does this point us to salvation from there?

45:09

That's the right question. But if people are starting to get into this whole deconstructionism that I can view it from my own racial lens, depending on how

45:16

I grew up, like things are going to mean different things to you when you're growing up, but there's, the

45:22

Bible is written in one context. It's either you're going to ice Jesus thing or X Jesus thing.

45:27

That's it. I like this guy. Um, yeah. So as far as deconstruction, like, yeah,

45:33

I've, I've been trying, it's funny. I've been trying to get Cooper on to talk about this cause this is something he deals with all the time, but he's, he's super busy.

45:39

I think he's going to be out here next month. We should try to make it happen. Yeah. I'm going to text him right now. Yeah. Um, yeah.

45:45

So actually did his text message, send him a link for this show. Um, so I mean,

45:50

I've had this conversation with him quite a bit and, um, I really want to do a whole show on this, but I want him to be on it.

45:56

Um, he deals with this a lot. He's got a new book coming out, uh, soon that he's going to be dealing pretty heavy with this.

46:02

But like, here's, here's my thoughts on, on deconstruction. Um, one, um, it's a

46:09

Marxist term and as Christians, we shouldn't be even like biblical word for it.

46:14

We shouldn't even be playing with that term because here's, here's the, here's the problem. there's really two camps.

46:20

Um, when it comes to this whole idea of deconstruction, there's those who are legitimately believers, um, they grew up in the church and maybe had bad experiences.

46:31

Maybe they've just grown and their theology, maybe they've had a shift in theology and they're starting to adopt this term like,

46:38

Oh, I'm deconstructing, you know? And it's like, no, you're not like you may be shifted in theology, but you're not denying your faith.

46:45

Right. And they're using that term, you know, um, or maybe they just got wounded by a church, you know, and so then they like kind of go into this whole like deconstruction phase, whatever.

46:54

It's like, it's like, no, you're not. So let's not use that term. Let's not, you know, they kind of use it like, like it's almost like a desirable thing.

47:02

Right. They're kind of like, Oh, this is sexy to be doubting my faith. It's a fad. It's a fad diet.

47:08

That's what it is. It's like, this is the new keto. Just try it out for a little bit and then you'll get to this like solid place and then you're going to be able to build from there.

47:15

Right. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. Good gracious. But then there's the other side of it where like, they're like legit, like they've they're denying the faith.

47:22

Yeah. You know, and that's apostasy is what we call it. Exactly. Yeah. And there, you know, and again, it's a lot of it's for the same reasons, but they were never, you know, they went out from us to show they're never truly of us.

47:34

And so, um, that's, that's kind of the two areas of, but I just see a lot of Christians that are like,

47:39

I'm like, bro, you're, you're a Christian. Like, why stop using that term? You know, like no one's doubting your faith, but stop, stop playing with that term.

47:48

Yeah. It's not a toy and that shiny new toy you can, you can play with. So that's, that's my short rant on deconstruction.

47:54

The book of Hebrews talks so much about this. I mean, if you, you got to press on from doubt, you don't wallow in unbelief.

48:02

Yeah. You don't stay there. If you're an unbelief, you claw, you scratch, you fight to press forward in faith.

48:09

Yeah. That's the theme of Hebrews. You keep going. Until you have entered the rest.

48:14

You need to work to rest. Right. I mean, that's what the author of Hebrew says.

48:19

Let us strive to enter that rest. Why? Because it's not our rest. We didn't provide it.

48:25

That's Christ. He provides that rest. So work really hard at entering the rest of Jesus. And, and don't flirt with unbelief.

48:33

You can't flirt with unbelief any more than you can flirt with an intruder in your home in the middle of the night.

48:40

You have to put him to death Yeah, he's there to destroy you He's there to take you out and you have to take out unbelief before it takes you out

48:51

Just like you have to make war on your sin and all these other because that's what unbelief is. It's a sin Yeah, you can't flirt with it.

48:58

You have to kill it You know, it's a totally new merit based system, too It really like obviously we could talk about the

49:05

Roman Catholic Church and you know The difference between Protestants there, but it's our big thing there ever since the

49:11

Protestant Reformation was just like no It's saved by grace through faith, you know in Christ alone. That's it. Like there's nothing that we can possibly do

49:18

To save ourselves and then when you talk about deconstructionism, it's these like hey you got to believe this and then once you believe that you can do that and then accept this and then become an ally and then do this here and then

49:29

White people you can just sit back because it's systemic and there's absolutely nothing that you could possibly do It just turns in this whole do this do that do this do that and then hopefully you have done enough

49:39

Yeah, and that's where we see in just so many cults Mm -hmm, and it's

49:45

I know Vody's book to if no one's read fault lines really good read that book And I think a lot of people can get so caught up in the there's bits and pieces in truth

49:54

Yeah, when we talked to critical theory, but it's all about where is that coming from exactly and you could read the Book of Mormon They'd be like, oh

50:00

I just read this little patch and that might sound great. But where is it coming from? Was copied from the

50:06

Bible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah follow it back to the source. Yeah, sure. Exactly, bro. I'm so glad you got canceled.

50:13

I guess you do at one intersection this guy got canceled because of this like I'm thankful for that because we probably wouldn't be having this

50:18

Conversation if you didn't so I love it Works everything for is good. I'm definitely glad I'm out of here.

50:24

Hey, man All right. Well, let's just get into some of the lyrics here I know I'm not gonna spend a lot of times but just some of the stuff

50:31

See if you if you kind of read through is this still in America, is that what you're reading? Yeah, so if you kind of so you kind of see what we're saying if you start reading through the lyrics

50:39

It's like on one hand he'll mention something that we're like, oh, yeah, I agree with that But then in the same it's like it's like this comparing contrasts each statement

50:48

And so it's like I'm when it's like, yeah, I agree with that in the other hand It's like I don't know if I agree with that. Yeah, and that's where it's kind of like he's trying to play

50:54

You know walked on the middle Where's I? Sorry, yeah, there's a lot in there.

51:03

Yeah, there's a lot. I don't want to go through all of it here so like this is I guess this is the first one, but So I like even this statement here we keep our history shrouded in mystery

51:14

I'm like No, wait, do we I? Mean and I would I would save anything the left is trying to do that I feel like we're pretty, you know, 1619 and all that stuff.

51:26

Like that's what that's about, right? I don't know America's racist or yeah, that's what I was Another deconstruction, right?

51:35

Yeah, that's literally what it is. It's it's just reframing the foundation of the country Yeah, so that in a

51:40

Marxist power grab, you know oppressor. Yeah, exactly. And that's where there ultimately is no reconciliation

51:45

You know because it's like unending reparations essentially, but so then a couple lines down he says

51:52

Men become ladies. So I'm assuming he's against that. Yeah more like yes Amen to that.

51:57

And then it's fair and then he says ladies want more than some babies And then it's like were you?

52:03

Okay, it's like we go. Yeah, exactly. Go for it. We go. So men become ladies

52:12

Abomination scripture says check. Okay now Women want more than some babies.

52:18

Yeah, what does that mean? Well, it means that In contrast to what I this is what

52:23

I believe he's saying in contrast to what scripture says Titus to the women are to be keepers of their home primarily Does it doesn't mean they can't do work outside the home, etc, etc

52:32

However, women want more than some babies. What does that mean? It means that their primary calling according to the world is to get out of the home.

52:39

Yeah to get out of their You know God ordained place where God has determined that they should

52:48

Normatively speaking where they should be yeah, and so Again, a little ambiguous right here.

52:53

He follows up with right after that ladies want more than babies They want to be treated like people so that's word and I did it

52:59

I did a Twitter thread on this because I'm just I'm interested just to see I Can we can only tell so much when we listen to a song?

53:07

yeah, and that's why I think I always love like I don't know if we should be promoting like Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon here, but Not very

53:14

Christian at all. But um, I love at the end. I love at the end They have an explanation of what you just watched so it's like hey from this actor or actresses perspective blah blah blah here

53:24

Here's a breakdown. Here's what you potentially could be seen. I would like to see that from him, but that's where I was confused

53:29

It's like is he trying to say that you know, women aren't treated equal Is he trying to say that there's like unequal pay situation here?

53:36

Is he trying to talk about be right and I'd be willing to be corrected on what I just said But that seems to be the thread to is inequity

53:44

Inequity of opportunity and equity of pay them. What have you just objectified and in hip -hop and in general

53:51

It's like what are you saying? Cuz it's like we could get on board, but I'm just But I have

53:57

I have a third question a third route even because when I see that I start thinking Is this like the what is it like the and movement or both movement?

54:06

Whatever, you know, I'm talking about where they're like We're against abortion You know, but we also think that you know, there's a whole social just like social justice they need

54:16

Yeah, we need to create conditions more favorable. Yeah, it's either and or both. That's one of those sort of You know,

54:23

I'm talking about the right But so like I'm reading that and I'm like so is this so is this saying like because there's plenty of women out there who think it's okay to murder their babies because They want more than that because they want a job they want a career they want financial comfort you know,

54:43

I mean so that when I see that I'm like is that then like are you saying like Abortions, okay, if you know what

54:50

I mean, like and that's we all have three different interpretations That's the point is like what is it? You're trying to say here cuz it's anyways

54:56

He does address it a little later on to he does remarks on the fact that you know We'll kill our own babies right keep our autonomy.

55:02

Okay good on you, right? I'm glad we got that one, right, right Mm -hmm. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I was gonna get to that, you know, but then he goes on to say we love our politics

55:10

Oh, I land with the free but the freedom ain't equal again. There's the inequity. Yeah. Yeah, we love our politics more than our people now

55:16

I'm gonna say For my perspective, that's a big problem with the left Right because they want their political power, but they also want to kill their babies and they're willing to sacrifice that You know if they consider them people this is a big question

55:33

So, but again, like where is that? Like is that a shot it? Well, who's that a shot at you know, I mean

55:39

And obviously a lot of this is like just even looking at more the lyrics inside of still

55:44

America still in America And then just rest of the songs here's like what is he telling us?

55:50

Yeah, he's elevating these social justice warriors He's elevating these basically martyrs like Nancy Pelosi would call him like thanks for giving up your life

55:59

So we can absolutely tear down your cities and make sure BLM gets millions of dollars for their mansions

56:04

But it turns into a yeah, we are tribal and then even Trump just announced his presidency

56:10

I can't stand the way people can get so tribal with Trump at times like I can I can call that out So like right and left it's wrong

56:16

But if you're trying to pretend like, you know We don't have equal rights here and that somehow, you know us sitting here or anybody else in this country is somehow

56:27

Complicit in the atrocities of the past is like what are we really talking about here? And is that actually the godly way to be?

56:34

Reaching out to people. Mm -hmm. Like you're not reaching out a hand You're slapping people away until you say like, oh,

56:39

I'll pick you up on this pedestal that I've been provided by the world now I'll get you in a second.

56:45

Yeah, if I'm complicit in the sins of my Ancestors for generations removed or whatever like I walked into that even if it is true

56:54

You know, like yeah, how am I supposed to atone for that? That's why we got to live from the cross

56:59

Yeah, you know 100 % so moving to verse 2 then it's I mean here again He says I'm still in America where church is a

57:05

Broadway production for relevance. Amen. Amen and amen. Yeah, that's a problem But then he says we traded the kingdom to build an empire

57:13

Again, I think there's some truth to that. There's that's a major problem in the church Yeah Modern -day

57:21

Babylon a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and they says this is what you mentioned. We worship economy We'll kill our own babies to keep our autonomy, which again, that's yes.

57:30

Amen brothers like preach But then he says you mess there a second minute. We're probably gonna riot

57:36

He wants gun control. He said that before too. I'm sure he does. Yeah You know and so here again, this is where I'm saying look

57:44

You have to have an objective standard you the first the first three lines or whatever you mentioned like that yes but the

57:51

Bible was your objective standing for those things and Then you drop to this line where it's like it no longer is and we're saying

57:59

Keeping your guns is fighting to tyranny. That's the whole reason for those is to protect ourselves against tyranny, which

58:06

Is not a biblical System of government. Yeah, and again what you said, but also categories like being able to think in categories

58:16

Why are we for the Second Amendment? Well, the same reason we're against abortion the preservation of innocent life

58:24

That's the principle at the bottom of the two that unites both of them is that we believe that the innocent should be protected

58:32

There you go, yeah, and then we'll just end here so this last section here He says we preach civil rights have a civil fight, okay

58:42

So then he said he goes after the BLM which I was like, all right kudos BLM may take your money by expensive flights

58:48

Okay, good on you look ready for calling them on. I appreciate that But then he goes on to say don't don't vote right we're still on site

58:56

Some gang we different colors forefathers, but not no but none of us brothers, which again I think is going back to what you mentioned earlier and Some are born here

59:08

Some are sworn here either live free or kill each other and then he ends with you can kill anyone

59:14

That you want in America. What do you think? He means by that? I was wondering this in context with the rest of the album.

59:20

That's what I'm wondering if he Expatiates on me. Well, that's a follow -up after it says the coast where I live.

59:27

We ain't speaking much English yeah, and then he thinks he gets into the illegal immigrant thing and then how it's just like Probably trying to look at the

59:35

Bible from some like we're all immigrants and we should be treating them Like obviously we should be treating With love and respect and then it turns into like the we do all the labor and do all the cleaning

59:46

But we don't get treated like equals where it's like, all right We can call it some of these things but it turns into the like why are you promoting that and acting like?

59:54

That we are just some miserable country. That's just like oh if you cross our border You were less than us and like you weren't born like in many ways you have have it a lot better And you know in this

01:00:05

America, but I think that's when when he ends the song with yeah Some are born here. Some are sworn here. So maybe like the idea of like right after that immigration verse there

01:00:18

This whole idea that people can get away with murder whether that's actually like physical or spiritual

01:00:24

I think he's probably that's at least the way I was seeing it is oh certain people are gonna be able to get away with stuff certain people aren't we need to come back to this place where we're all equal and Yeah, when you finish a song with like you can kill anyone in America is that killing someone's

01:00:43

Pride is that killing someone's egos that actually killing ending somebody's life But I think he's talking about ending life because a lot of it's been the social justice of a lot of Michael Brown Brianna Taylor He calls that George Floyd, too

01:00:56

It's one of those where it's like None of this is glorifying to God whatsoever.

01:01:02

You're vilifying police. You're trying to say that This racial representation thing once again should be elevated.

01:01:08

You can kill who you want. You can do what you want Can't wait till we're all equal. It's all lies well, yeah, and I mean if I Yeah, again, it's an ambiguous statement to end with but my thought is again if you're promoting

01:01:23

Stacey Abrams and Warnock and guys like that like They if it was up to them, you literally could kill anyone you wanted in America.

01:01:31

And if that's who you're promoting Like why are you you know, why does it seem like you're speaking out against that?

01:01:38

I don't know. It's a question that we'd all love to be have answered, you know But these are the same people again that aren't just promoting abortion.

01:01:45

They're promoting abortion up the full term if not 30 days after right, you know, I'm sure they're for eugenics and You know,

01:01:54

I'm sure they're for Killing old people and all the all the things You know, they're they're promoting they're you know

01:02:03

They're anti -police or whatever like well, you take the police away I'm not gonna get off subject here

01:02:09

But you know the proofs in the pudding you take the police away and then it's a free -for -all anybody been to Chicago lately

01:02:15

I grew up 30 minutes south east of there. It's it's no bueno like You know, there's no no no police people.

01:02:24

It's a free fall You're empowering criminals to if you're gonna say like, oh, we're probably gonna send out a social worker first You're basically just putting them in the line of fire.

01:02:32

And then what a criminal is gonna think like great I got an extra maybe 30 minutes That's like or they're gonna said somebody that is not armed and they are not well versed in how to De -escalate a situation.

01:02:43

I mean that's got to be a terrifying situation for the social worker and then two It's like there's there's got to be law and order

01:02:49

We obviously should be holding police officers accountable and law enforcement like if there's wrong out there what we'll call it

01:02:56

But we got to stop on definitely on both sides We're talking about tribalism and be like all that happened

01:03:02

No way, like all police got to be totally fine, right or it's the other end where it's like, oh my gosh

01:03:07

The police are evil, that's just another unarmed black man And it's just like it gets into this whole thing.

01:03:13

Like do we know the whole story exactly, right? And obviously like we want justice Yeah, we all want it but if we're gonna start just getting so caught up in the

01:03:22

Again, the LeBron James things like every time you leave your door as a black person you're being hunted. It's like that's not true

01:03:28

What neighborhood do you live in LeBron? the one where he spray -painted Fake do you ever see that?

01:03:35

What do you do? It was a basically a fake racist message on his

01:03:42

Like front gate and he called the police Anybody can look this up and then it was scrubbed off by the time that police got there

01:03:51

We're not talking about juicy. Are we? No, we're not. I'm a juicy small. Yeah So he scrubbed it off by the time the police got there

01:04:00

There is still there is still no like specifics on what happened there because they thought it was a

01:04:09

They were saying there was just like a racial message on that and then it was scrubbed away by the time police got there

01:04:15

It used to be a huge fan of LeBron. Now I just wish he'd shut up It's perfectly in line with what our culture is selling right now and that's victimhood is virtue

01:04:22

So if it was true, you know, that's that's the line of the false gospel that the world is bringing

01:04:28

How much of a victim right can you be and we know that you can't be a better one than Christ Amen, my favorite one of my favorite quotes from our boy

01:04:37

Toby Sumter is that as Christians we should reject all Invitations to victimhood because we have the perfect victim and we're never truly innocent.

01:04:47

Yeah Well, John, thanks man for being on this was fun. Yeah Yeah, thanks for having me.

01:04:53

What a blessing. I know reform calm was fun and then we're rocking and rolling baby Let's get John Cooper on on this next month, and I'm working on it.

01:05:01

It's been great guys I'm gonna hit him up. I need to be on that one. So don't Well everyone, thank you again as I mentioned next week

01:05:10

Next week we won't have an episode because we'll have a one -day break from Christmas for Thanksgiving It's like what bro?

01:05:17

You're so excited. We're skipping Thanksgiving We don't skip Thanksgiving Thanksgiving has its day.

01:05:24

We give it a day and then it's just Christmas Thanksgiving Christmas, so Anyways, we'll be back in two weeks.

01:05:32

Like I said with dr. Ben Merkel and Thank you again as always to all of our supporters We have some very exciting stuff coming up this next year for an abortion now which we'll be talking about and Zach's very much involved with that and So be so be checking that out as we'll be and let you know what's going on But a lot of bills hopefully for protection going in across the nation

01:05:56

Get some big plans so you can support us there if you want Please sign up in abortion now comm and you can go to apologies studios comm as well to get your all -access subscription

01:06:05

And we have some very very exciting stuff coming for all access as well, so John thanks again, bro.

01:06:12

Thank you. Oh, where can people find you? I don't know Oh, yeah, I'm on Instagram and Twitter probably most active on there at Johnny rude j -o -n -n -y r -o -o -t

01:06:20

Underscore I'm also on YouTube trying to build that up a little bit So trying to get to the point where I can kind of monetize that stuff.

01:06:27

Yeah. Yeah, is that under your neighbor ads? Is that under your name or turning point? It's under my name.

01:06:33

So if you just I think they have handles now. It's at John root on YouTube Right now got another subscriber come in to two subscribers.

01:06:42

Yes. Ah, thanks, dude. Appreciate it You can find me wherever apology in studios