Rod Martin on Where the Election Stands

Conversations That Matter

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Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. We got a special interview today that I want you to see.

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I had a discussion with Rod Martin earlier, and he's been great, I think, on keeping a level head, being informative, and a

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Christian about the election process and what we're going through right now. As I'm talking to you right now,

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Donald Trump is tweeting out some of the, a little bit vague, but some of what's happening in different states in regards to the legal challenges.

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And I have so many thoughts right now, I can't even gather them all. In fact, earlier today, I started sitting down,

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I was gonna make a PowerPoint up for an episode, and about an hour and a half later, I had so many just notes and things

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I wanted to talk about. I thought I have enough for like three or four podcasts here. So I think later this week and next week, perhaps, we're gonna have to talk about a lot of subjects.

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So I just wanna give you a little bit of a preview here. We're gonna have to talk a little bit about the doctrine of the lesser magistrate.

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So we're gonna have Matt Truwella on, and he wrote a book called A Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate. You're gonna need to know about that, especially if we're in a

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Biden administration, and if the Democrats are able to get Congress and the House, you're gonna need to know about the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and what that means.

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So we're gonna be talking to Matt Truwella. We're gonna be talking, hopefully, right now,

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I'm looking at getting someone, I haven't booked it yet, but someone to talk about what happened in South Africa.

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Now, the situations are not exact in every single way, but I've been doing some reading currently on Rhodesia.

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But South Africa, I know a little bit about that situation. And if you wanna know kind of how critical race theory can have an impact in the

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United States, look at some of the policies that have been taking place in South Africa for years.

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And the effect that they've had. And we can get a little bit of an idea of what that might look like, and hopefully some practical advice.

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So we're gonna be talking about that. But I wanna encourage you, I know the stuff I just mentioned sounds almost doom and gloom.

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Like, oh, what if really bad stuff happens? How do we react? Well, we need to be ready for those things. That's the reality.

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I'm gonna maybe even tell you about some things I've done the last few days to get ready. But at the same time, we can't give up hope.

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And obviously we have an eternal hope. We have a hope that there's things beyond, things eternal, things that matter much more than the things we see around us.

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We understand that. We also though, aren't done with this election. So, and I mean that.

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I really don't think we're done with this. I know the media wants to coronate Joe Biden. And they may have, I think they rushed,

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I know they rushed into it, but they may have rushed into it, I think even strategically too fast. And I can't say any more than that, but there's just, there's a lot.

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There's a lot of people that have reached out to me. I've been talking, having a lot of conversations. And I just don't think it's over guys.

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So, some practical things. I'll talk to you more about it this week. Make sure real quick that you have hopefully some other social media, alternative social media accounts like Parler or MeWe, something else.

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We'll talk, I'll tell you what I've been doing in that regard later. Make sure that you just have the basic stuff you should also have.

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So, survival stuff, defense stuff, warm clothes, we're heading into winter, all the things that you should always have anyway.

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If you don't have them, just make sure you have them. And I'm not telling you what's gonna happen.

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I'm just, and I don't know what's gonna happen, but I think it's good to just make sure that you can provide. If someone doesn't provide for their household, they're worse than an infidel.

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We know that from scripture. So, just make sure that you can provide for yourself and for others. Going into this, and don't repeat the media narrative at this point.

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Just don't, if it's a lie, if you think it's a lie, don't repeat it. Don't be defeatist, don't lament too much.

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Point out the hypocrisy. If you're gonna use social media, I think you should, as you can.

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Really, don't go on social media and just spend the whole time getting depressed and looking at all the things that are being said by your progressive friends.

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Get on there, get informed. Go to whatever sources, Newsmax or The Blaze or Breitbart or,

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I don't know, American Spectator. Go to the alternative media sources and then blast those articles or make your own, in your own words, put down, and get off, so that you at least are using your platform.

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And the reason I'm saying this is the media has one big bullhorn, right? But if you have someone with a really big bullhorn and they got millions of people that don't have bullhorns, but they have their voice, those millions of people can drown out the bullhorn.

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So this is why I'm saying, use your platform to present the alternative. It is time right now to grow these alternative media platforms and social media platforms.

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And if nothing else happens that's positive out of this politically, at least we can try to go around the established narrative because it's toxic at this point.

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So those are a few things. I'm gonna talk to you more about that stuff, Lord willing, later in the week.

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But for now, I want you to hear from Rod Martin. Rod Martin is one of the ones who founded

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PayPal. A lot of you use PayPal, so you're familiar with that, I'm sure. And he's also the head of the

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Martin Organization and on the steering committee for the Conservative Baptist Network and on the executive committee, an officer for the executive committee of the

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Southern Baptist Convention. Rod, thank you so much for being with us. Hey, great to be here.

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Good to see you. Yeah, thank you. Hey, I wanna talk to you a little bit about the election because I was thinking about who can

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I have on who's not losing their mind and there's that category.

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And then there's the category of it's Biden won, it's over. You're kind of,

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I think, more level -headed. You're seeing this for what it is and not the media narrative. And I just wanna say

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I appreciate that and just your Christian, I think, approach to this. So thank you. Well, I appreciate that.

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And you didn't get to in the introduction nor is there any reason for you to.

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But I've been involved in politics since I was a kid. I've been on the executive committee of the

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Republican Party in Arkansas. I was called Republican National Committee member. I was policy director for Governor Mike Huckabee.

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I was president of the National Federation of Republican Assemblies. I've worked on Capitol Hill. I had an entire life with this before we went to Silicon Valley and since for that matter.

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And I've done a lot with ballot security through the years. Actually, part of my thesis was on stolen elections.

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So I know a little bit about this and truly the fraud is off the chart.

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No one needs to make any mistake about that. And I don't really have to say a lot more for you to get the point if you're honest.

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Then you don't go out of your way to systematically keep

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Republican poll watchers away from the ballot counting if you aren't cheating. That's crazy.

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And it wasn't just in one place. It was rampant across these swing states and there are tons of other stuff but that alone tells you something's not right.

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This is a statutory requirement that those poll watchers be there and close enough to be able to actually observe what's going on, not a hundred feet away, not behind a wall.

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It's a statutory requirement. In Philadelphia, they had not one but two lower court orders they ignored.

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The Secretary of State's office is being touted by the leftists as, well, they were already doing what the

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Secretary of State said. No, they actually were not doing what the Secretary of State said. Then it goes to the

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Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has to issue an order which wasn't followed and Alito issues another order.

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So why would you do that? I mean, I remember when Democrats were absolutely going bananas over Roy Moore having a

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Ten Commandments monument and how if you don't follow a court order that's tantamount to treason. But here on something that could not be plainer and that absolutely everybody on their side should want to do because if the

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Republican poll watchers are there, they can verify there's no fraud if there isn't any.

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So why on God's earth would you ever keep them away unless you're cheating? And so, we have huge problems.

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We've got great lawyers on this in every state. I feel very confident that the

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President will have excellent representation as will John James in Michigan, as will three

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Republican House candidates in Pennsylvania that honestly, if that is recounted the way it looks like it probably ought to be could end up flipping the

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House of Representatives from Nancy Pelosi's control. Senate races in Georgia, there's a lot on the line here and we are in the fight.

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This is day six of a 34 day battle. This is not the end by any stretch of the imagination. And there's just an awful lot to be done.

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I can't predict the outcome, but I think it is a very fair statement based on the evidence

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I'm seeing behind the scenes that Donald Trump won all or most of these states and this is a

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Venezuela level disaster. Wow, that is a lot to take in and it was very well said and articulated there.

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I wanna get into this a little more. We are hearing from a lot of Christian leaders currently in even the

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Southern Baptist Convention that Biden won, I assume because the media declared

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Biden to be the winner and it's our duty now to pray for those in authority which assumes that Biden's in authority and kind of toe the line.

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What do you have to say about that? Or what's your response? Well, I think we should always pray for all of these people.

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I don't have any issue with that. I do have quite a bit of issue with the lack of discernment on just accepting whatever the media happens to tell you.

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When has the media been our friend? These people are not objective sources. Some of our pastors and worse, leaders of other sorts within the church seem to believe that there is other than God, some kind of cosmic kindergarten teacher that's gonna make everything fair.

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That's absolutely ludicrous. Do these people not believe in the doctrine of original sin? People are sinners, they sin.

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That's what they do. And the miracle is when anybody doesn't.

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So if we are Christians, we should not be exactly surprised to see corruption and sin.

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That's the default state of the world that only Jesus Christ can fix. So of course there's cheating, there's always cheating.

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If there's anything that matters and any opportunity to get advantage by cheating, sinners are gonna cheat.

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That's just how the world works. I would think Christians would understand that better than anybody. And for these guys to accept the word of their enemies.

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And if you don't think the Washington Post and the New York Times and MSNBC and CNN are enemies of the church at this point, have you slept through the last 40 years?

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I mean, it's just absolutely ridiculous. So, I mean, these are people who, on the front page of the

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New York Times after the election of Donald Trump, they actually ran an editorial, which they had not done in I think 150 years, saying that it is their duty at the

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New York Times to not report objectively, but to do anything they have to do to resist the

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Trump presidency. Well, a lot of that was predicated, including by some of the Southern Baptist leaders you mentioned on the idea that Donald Trump seemed to be an authoritarian, wanted to be a dictator.

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Well, okay, we just had COVID for a year. We now know beyond the shadow of a doubt whether Donald Trump wants to be a dictator because he had every opportunity to be one this year.

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He literally could have done anything in the name of the pandemic. And it not only would have been accepted, it would have been lauded.

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All of the criticisms of his opponents about his handling of the pandemic come down to not exercising more unconstitutional power.

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So, obviously he could have done anything he wanted to do. He probably could have suspended the election if he'd wanted to, and it probably would have been praised in some circles.

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And in fact, the criticisms of him boil down to his following the

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Constitution, refusing to use power he does not rightly have, and following the principles of federalism and allowing states to make their own judgments.

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That isn't a dictator. So, the guys here who are rejoicing to some degree at, oh, well,

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Joe Biden's gonna be better. No, Joe Biden wants to redefine the law where your church basically has to hire transgender pastors or be padlocked.

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Joe Biden wants to fund every abortion on the planet out of your tax money.

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Joe Biden wants to absolutely be an enemy of the church, not to mention the unborn.

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And this is all exactly what he's promised. So, why are we so fast to be so happy and so accepting of the propaganda line of an opponent?

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I guarantee you, if the shoe were on the other foot, you would not be getting such a response.

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One of the things I've seen, which disturbs me and surprises me, is so many Christians, proclaimed

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Christians at least, have said, well, we should at least rejoice that we have a minority woman as the vice president.

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And if Christians can't agree on anything else with this administration, you must celebrate that, which that just must tell us,

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I guess, where we're at, that the skin shade and the gender matter are more than policy and truth.

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Yeah, they are infinitely more concerned about the most superficial attributes of everyone than they are about covenant, than they are about confession, than they are about any sort of public policy.

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It's really mind -numbing. These are supposedly Christians. Christians are supposed to believe that there is no

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Jew or Greek, there is no slave or free, there is no male or female. We are all one in Christ. He reconciles all people to himself.

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And instead, we are completely focused on melanin count. I mean, it's just mind -numbing.

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And okay, yeah, I mean, I guess on some minimal level, hey, it's nice that we might have a black female vice president.

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Wee, that'll really help everybody. Best I could tell, having a black president didn't do a lot for black unemployment.

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It didn't do a lot for advancing historically black colleges. It didn't do a lot for a whole lot of things that in fact resulted in an historic non -white vote for Donald Trump last

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Tuesday. It is absolutely staggering what happened in that regard when you look at the shocking non -white vote for Trump in places like Miami -Dade

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County, of course, where it was a massive turnaround from four years earlier, but also in places like the

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Rio Grande Valley. Obviously, Cubans are a little bit more inclined toward the Republican Party than Mexicans are historically.

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Venezuelans have become a very solid conservative bloc where there are a decent number of Venezuelans, but Mexicans have been much more prone to opposing

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Republicans and embracing Democrats. Donald Trump actually carried counties in the Rio Grande Valley that Hillary Clinton won by 50 points.

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So it is very clear that the Trump is a racist line or that everybody's interests are defined by their race line.

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And of course, worst of all, the ludicrously racist idea that we've had preached to us for 20 years by the left, that demography is destiny, by which they mean that as America gains more minorities since minorities must necessarily be a

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Democrat merely because of their skin color, their interests are necessarily with the Democrats, therefore the

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Republicans will lose. The lie was put to all of that on Tuesday night. And I would add that it's a really, really good thing because a

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Christian point of view, again, does not allow for this kind of racial, not profiling, but it might as well be, racial characterization.

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The critical theory approach to humanity is antithetical to the gospel. And it turned out to be antithetical to reality on Tuesday night.

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That's a very good point. I know in some Christian denominations, there's an effort to expand the tent by trying to appeal through using tools like critical race theory to a minority audience to somehow get them to be in the fold as well in the denomination.

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And I think you're absolutely right. This isn't what attracts people. What attracts people is taking a stand for the truth, speaking to them like they're human beings with needs that you can relate to and not treating them like they're so distant because they're so different than us because of the color of their skin or their gender or some external quality.

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So I appreciate what you just said. And that's a point I didn't even think of. You're right with Trump expanding his base there.

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Well, I understand we have some very well -known preachers in the Southern Baptist Convention who preach an extraordinarily racialized gospel worthy of Southern planters.

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200 years ago, it's really, really damning actually. But the truth of the matter is

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Americans as a whole don't buy that. There was a poll about a month ago. I'd have to hunt it down for you now.

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But the question was asked, what do you consider racism? And the answer more or less was when a person of one race does something ugly to a person of another race because of their race.

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Well, that's the definition of racism I grew up with. And I'm sure you did and most people did.

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And it was interesting in the way the poll, certainly in the cross tabs, but just in the way it was constructed, there was a complete repudiation of the critical race theory view of racism, the idea of,

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I mean, I'm sure I've been around a lot of polls. You can ask people the question three different ways and get three different answers.

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But the nuts and bolts of this poll came down to people really meaningfully repudiated the critical race theory view of what racism is.

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They saw it as a much more individualized thing. And they saw America as being a place where you could overcome that through hard work and being a decent person.

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That is where Americans are. So when these guys, and by the way, that was 75%.

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And it was true across races, blacks and whites and Hispanics and Asians and everybody basically agreed at a 75 % rate that what we think of as racism is and what they think of as racism is frankly kind of weird.

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And it is. And when you have that much consensus across party lines, across racial lines, across all of the different lines that are constantly being spat out at us, it is very clear that they are talking to a very small subset of the population, most of which has already decided it hates

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Christianity. So those people need the gospel. They don't need to be pandered to.

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And I don't know where in the New Testament we have ever seen an example of Jesus or any of the apostles gaining an audience by pandering.

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That's just not what's there. This is dangerous stuff. It will be dangerous in public policy and already has been.

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And there's just no excuse for it in the church. Yeah, good point. I wanna bring it back to the election and ask you kind of a hypothetical question.

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First, I wanna read this quote to you though. I believe this was yesterday. Sidney Powell, you might've seen this clip, said, there has been a massive and coordinated effort to steal this election from we, the people of the

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United States of America, to legitimize and destroy votes for Donald Trump, to manufacture votes for Joe Biden.

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They have done it in every imaginable way, from having dead people vote in massive numbers to absolutely fraudulently creating ballots that exist only voting for Biden.

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They also use an algorithm to calculate the votes they would need to flip. And they use computers to flip votes from Trump to Biden and from other

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Republican candidates to their competitors. We've identified, and here's kind of the key, at least 450 ,000 ballots in key states that miraculously only have a mark for Joe Biden on them and no other candidate.

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In other words, those who were voting only voted for the president and no other public official that was running.

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Which in the real world almost never happens. Right, so here's my question to you. You're in a room with some, we'll say

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Christian leaders in this case, that have said, we gotta get on the train, the media's declared it for Biden, it's time to welcome him.

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You've already mentioned that there's some suspicious things going on. What kind of, what things would you point to concretely to convince them that this is not over yet?

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Well, I think a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. Okay. Some of the people we're talking about are not gonna be convinced.

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True, true. And there's just nothing you can do about it because they want the outcome they think they have received.

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And they might get it, it's perfectly possible. They might also get those two Senate seats in Georgia and as a result, a massive tax increase, the passage of H .R

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.1, so that their churches are actively persecuted and a whole bunch of other things that they will rue the day that they wanted to live with.

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I think some of them don't take politics seriously and don't think it can harm them. And perhaps they should spend a few months in a place like Venezuela and see how well that works out for them.

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But they may be about to get to here at home. So in any case, I don't know that I could persuade them, but I am quite certain that anyone with two working eyes and ears ought to be able to see that something is really horribly amiss.

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If all you knew, once again, was the concerted effort by Democrat election officials across multiple states to prevent us from observing what they were doing while counting the vote.

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That's really all you need to know. But, oh wait, there's tons of evidence and as you just indicated,

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Sidney Powell is on top of a lot of it. In the case of the electronic voting.

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Can I ask you about that? A lot has been talked about there and I am not an expert on some of the specifics of that yet, but there is the case in Michigan where the machine just magically flipped 6 ,000

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Trump votes to Biden. Well, okay, that's interesting in several dimensions.

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One of them being, why is it always from Republican to Democrat? If you can answer that question, you probably have your bigger answer because you never see that go the other way.

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Good luck finding an example where that has gone the other way. Second, in that case, that did flip at least one down ballot race.

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Third, that same software is in use in 47 other counties in Michigan. Fourth, that same software is in use in all of the swing states in question.

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So there is a really meaningful question as to what the heck happened here. Is this one machine that went bad, which obviously is ridiculous because computers only do what you tell them to do.

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And so there seems to be a potentially systemic issue, which is buttressed in no small part by the fact that those voting machines received a surreptitious software update the night before the election.

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Well, that's never supposed to happen. You're never ever supposed to have a software update go out the night before the election where nobody can check it out before it is actually live in the field.

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But in this case, it did, specifically to those machines and suddenly we're having these apparent issues.

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You're talking about in Georgia, right? That the software update, or was that also in Michigan? It appears to have been universal, at least to all of the machines of this brand.

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And although that's subject to modification as more information comes in, but from what

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I am told currently, that went out to them all. But here's the bigger point.

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How did they get a software update in the first place? They were online. Yeah. Why are voting machines connected to the internet in the context of an election?

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That's insane. After four years of Russia, Russia, Russia, and the Russians are hacking our election and they're trying to hack our democracy,

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Democrat office holders are hooking up their election machines to the internet?

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I mean, first of all, they obviously didn't believe a word they said for the last four years. And second, that's just stupid.

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That's just absolutely stupid. If you have something that matters, somebody's gonna wanna take it.

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There's a reason you have guards at banks. There's a reason there's a great big vault with a lock. There's a reason that you have passwords on your computer.

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There's a reason you don't leave your wallet out on a bar in a restaurant. We know that if you make temptation easy enough, sinners are going to sin.

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So the whole thing is a setup for fraud. And then of course, like you said, you have other just blatant issues like all of these ballots that show up in the middle of the night that are only marked for the presidential race and just happen to be marked in a number that happens to match the apparent deficit

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Joe Biden had by the time they quit counting before those ballots showed up.

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So again and again and again, you have things that just aren't possible in the real world.

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And yes, there's an awful lot of evidence of all of this that our legal teams in all of these states have collected and are continuing to collect.

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And I think the discovery phase of some of these lawsuits is gonna be ugly. What do you see moving forward?

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I know you're not a prophet or a son of a prophet, but maybe some encouraging things for conservative

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Christians who now don't trust this process, who think that this has been rigged. I know speaking just for myself,

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I worked for a board of elections years ago on three different occasions. When I heard there was a software update,

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I was shocked. I mean, this was part of our training that these could not be connected to the internet.

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They had test runs. They made sure they were gonna work for the election day. And in my own town, downtown, which always goes

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Republican went Democrat. The board of elections was caught in two instances, counting votes without a

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Republican inspector and, this was before the election, and they had problems with their machines as well.

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Which, I mean, this just shocked me. I am losing faith in this system. What do you, do you have anything to say to encourage us about the process that's taking place now or a prediction?

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I don't know if you wanna get into that, but for the future. Well, I mean, it's difficult because all of these things

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I'm saying are somewhat self -evident on a certain level, but then you actually have to prove them in court.

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A lot of the evidence, I mean, I have to assume when you're going out of your way to do this thing in a corner, hidden away from any observer, you're probably destroying evidence.

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So we would have to assume that's likely. So proving some of these things could be quite difficult, but I don't think it's gonna be horribly difficult because so much of it is just so blatant.

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And just the Supreme Court ruling that ballots collected after 8 p .m.

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on Tuesday night in Pennsylvania could be enough to flip Pennsylvania by itself.

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Honestly, that's a very simple constitutional issue. The U .S. Constitution is very clear that you don't get to, at the state level, extend the date of a federal election.

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So John Roberts didn't want to actually be in a majority to enforce the Constitution before the election, but now afterwards, when we have

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Amy Coney Barrett, also there should be at least five votes for that going forward. And that might be enough to flip a couple of these states by itself.

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But nevertheless, I actually don't have any lack of hope in the system. I have a complete lack of hope in sinful fallen men.

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That's why we have checks and balances. That's why you're supposed to have poll watchers. That's why you're supposed to have elections attorneys at all these places.

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This is because we don't, and should not, trust people not to steal.

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They're sinners. That's what Christians believe. I don't know why any Christians would believe otherwise. Perhaps they're actually universalists or something.

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But nevertheless, the system is fine. The system is being subverted by sinful people.

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I would suggest that in the long run, you could get toward a better system with a better chance of success, even among those sinners, if you didn't hand over all of your children to the state indoctrination camps to be indoctrinated into humanism and Marxism from pre -pre -K through 12 and then college.

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Perhaps if you took seriously your mandate as fathers and mothers to educate your children in a

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Christian way, you might get a better result over the course of a generation or three. But nevertheless, if you're not willing to do that, you're gonna at least have to law your up.

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And I think that we're in a position to potentially win this election.

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Not that I don't think we won it. I think we did. But I think we can prove it. And I think that we have a decent chance, not an extraordinary chance, but a decent chance of actually seating the duly elected president of the

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United States, Donald J. Trump, and possibly Senator John James in Michigan and possibly three

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House members in Pennsylvania and possibly a U .S. Senator in Georgia also.

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That's all feasible and it's not out of the realm of reasonableness, but we're gonna have to fight for it.

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Let me ask you a really practical question, Rod. For Christians sitting in the pews who they're hearing sermons over the last

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Sunday, probably this Sunday as well, that have messages that are, I guess the word

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I could use is pacifying, saying either it's over and it's not a big deal, that's another kind of thing, or there's nothing left that you can do.

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What are some things Christians can do on social media as far as the news sources that they listen to?

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Should they be making changes there? Should they be preparing in any way, no matter which way this thing goes?

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You mentioned education for children. What would you say? Well, in the short term, the first thing is just not to give up.

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By the way, that's also true in the long term. I mean, don't give up. Jesus is still sovereign. There's no question about that.

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I don't wish to live under persecution, but if we have to, the people of God have done that before and been delivered, but it's kind of stupid when the church is busily trying to deliver us into the persecution through inaction or general stupidity or even actively cooperating with the foe.

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In the short term, give money to the Trump campaign to prosecute these lawsuits.

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These things are not cheap. These things have to be paid for. And that helps all the down -ballot people.

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If John James was cheated out of a Senate seat in Michigan, as I'm pretty sure he was, Donald Trump's legal team is fighting for him also and ditto in the other states.

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So that's a very practical thing. Another practical thing is, again, just not to give up and not accept that it's over until it is over.

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And there is a predictable date on which it's over. If we don't win this by a certain time in December, then it's over.

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And whether we were right or wrong, doesn't matter. One of these men is gonna be seated as president on January 20, after that point.

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If it's Donald Trump, we need to do everything in our power to take advantage of that win and to attempt to make the law clearer and better and stronger so that righteousness can prevail, which is not least consisting in just having fair and honest elections and doing justice and not doing injustice, which is what's gonna happen if it's

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Joe Biden, who is going to do everything in his power to pack the Supreme Court, which does not mean appoint openings that come up with, you know, fill them with people that he likes.

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Of course he gets to do that. That's called having an election. He's talking about doing what even the

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Democrats rebelled at in 1937 when Franklin Roosevelt tried it, expanding the court and getting to appoint as many justices as he sees fit to get a political outcome so that the

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Supreme Court no longer is a court of justice, but is actually just a super legislature that gets to trump everybody else.

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That's horribly wrong. Joe Biden is absolutely seeking to do that and has said so except when he hasn't said so and note that he never said he wasn't gonna do it.

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He did say after a while that he did not wish to be put on the spot and made to say what he wanted to do.

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Well, he'd said it before and so had Harris and she's probably gonna end up the real president anyway.

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So if you don't want the court to become a joke, if you, a very, very

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Marxist joke, if you don't want taxes to go through the roof and kill off all of that jobs boom that has reduced unemployment and poverty and therefore actually solved the issues of economic justice all these people say they care about, well, they only care about it when it's a government program.

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They don't care about it when people are actually allowed to get ahead through their own labor. If you want to have any meaningful chance of ending the slaughter of 62 million babies, if you want to do anything positive, then you're gonna have to be more engaged and our opponents on this wanna say, well, you're trying to politicize the pulpit.

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First of all, I'm not a preacher so I can politicize whatever I want. Second, you're trying to politicize the church.

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You're seeking a political gospel, a political savior. No, I believe Jesus is

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Lord of every area of life. That includes my company, that includes my work, that includes my free time, that includes my church, but it's not limited to my church.

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And one of the things that I'm supposed to care about is my neighbor. In fact, Jesus said something about loving my neighbor.

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Well, it's not loving to let government oppress my neighbor or to prevent the preaching of the gospel through evil legislation or to murder babies by the millions.

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None of those things are loving your neighbor. So we have a civic duty. They can deny that all day long, but that's ridiculous because they're calling for civic duty of a

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Marxist variety through critical race theory and intersectionality. The more they talk about depoliticizing the church, the more they politicize it in a particular direction.

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So let's just be honest about what's going on there. But Christians who have not been involved up to now need to involve themselves, not less, but more if Biden wins because, and he has not won yet, but if he does, then they need to be more involved because there's gonna be more on the line, there's gonna be more at stake, and there's frankly gonna be more death, actual death as a result of the policies such as mass abortion on demand.

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He says he wants to legislate it congressionally, which takes it to a completely different level than Roe v.

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Wade. These things have to be opposed, and if Christians don't oppose them, who on earth will?

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And finally, I wasn't kidding about education. Donald Trump is absolutely right that school choice is the civil rights issue of this era.

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Our friends on the left wish to re -litigate Jim Crow, which was gone before I was even born, and I now have a gray beard, for heaven's sake.

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No, what black and Hispanic children need is a decent school, and the state isn't providing it.

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So where we have seen charter schools and vouchers instituted, we have seen dramatically better educational performance by the poorest minority students who have had the opportunity to get it.

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That should be a huge concern for us, but as Christians, we should be especially interested in Christian education opportunities, both

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Christian schools and homeschooling, and we should be working at that very hard. We've got a bunch of church buildings sitting empty all through the week where there could be classes and there could be wonderful things happening, and the next generation doesn't have to be indoctrinated into the beliefs of our enemies.

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I don't understand why the church is dropping the ball on that. I homeschooled my youngest.

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The others went to Christian school. It was not that hard to do. It was a bit of a sacrifice at points, but it was well, well worth it.

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Would do it all over again, and then some. I don't know why parents aren't more interested in this, but it probably starts with their pastor who is asleep at the wheel, and it's time to wake up.

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All right, well, amen. That is a good charge to bring both for laymen and pastors, and I'll put the link in the info section for donating to the

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Trump campaign, which is, I think, where you said to go if we want to help with this recount. Any final thoughts or places that people can go to find out more about your commentary?

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I know you have a Twitter account. I do. I kind of go back and forth on that, because honestly,

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Twitter is a nihilistic wasteland, and no one should ever go there. Yes. But nevertheless, for some insane reason,

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Southern Baptist leaders congregate there, so I kind of have to be there. I am more available at greater length on Facebook.

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Everybody, please feel free to follow me there. I'm running out of room for new friends.

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I've hit the 5 ,000 friend limit, but I've got a ton of followers there. Do you have

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Parler yet? I just got Parler three days ago, and that is valuable, although all the new people are overloading their system.

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They're gonna have to get some new system resources. And normally, although it's been a little while, because we've been involved in some pretty big deals the last two years, and I just haven't had time, but historically,

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I actually write a great deal, and that is at rodmartin .org. So everybody's more than welcome there, and we will be ramping that back up in the near future.

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All right. Well, Mr. Rod Martin, thank you so much for joining me on Conversations That Matter, and God bless you, and we'll be praying for our country, and I know the

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Southern Baptist Convention, which I know you're part of moving forward, so appreciate it. We're very, very intent on the

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Southern Baptist Convention, and I do wanna encourage all of your Baptist viewers, for heaven's sake, get involved.

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We are facing some of these same issues in the church, and the Southern Baptist Convention is not only the largest

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Protestant denomination in the United States, it is, we educate in our six seminaries a third of the seminary students on the continent.

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That's way more than just Southern Baptists. We have the largest missionary force in the evangelical

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Christendom in history, actually. Something like three quarters of a billion dollars flow through just the national level of the

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SBC every year, 12 billion through our 51 ,000 churches. It's a phenomenal enterprise that we must not just hand over tamely to the people who believe in something completely different.

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And so that's why we've done Conservative Baptist Network. We wanna encourage people, Baptist life is not a denomination in the strict sense.

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All of those institutions above the local church are just stewarding money that we collectively give to do things that we can't do as well as individual churches, like seminary education and like missions.

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And so those are not cardinals and bishops. Those are stewards of the widow's might.

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And it is essential that all of us make a huge effort to go and take friends to the annual meeting every year and vote for presidents who will actually represent the interests of the overwhelming majority of the

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Baptists in the pew. That is gonna be an ongoing struggle for some time. The left is very intent on subverting the

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SBC. And it is, even if you didn't believe in Jesus, and if you don't, you need to meet him today.

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He is my Lord and Savior and everything he claims is true. But even if you didn't believe in that, the left knows that the

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SBC is a giant culture moving institution. And for heaven's sake, if we let them take it, if we let them subvert it, it will be the beginning of the end, not just of our church, but of evangelicaldom, of America, of Christendom.

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It is just a cultural battle we must win. And I really strongly urge everyone, please go to conservativebaptistnetwork .com

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and sign up and help us in this fight. All right, perfect. Thank you so much,

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Rod, again, and for your encouragement and your grace in communicating this. And I just appreciate it.