"The Significance of the Local Church" An interview with Josh Lofthus of The Reformatory Podcast

Here I Stand Theology

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

All right, welcome to the here. I stand theology podcast today. We've got a great show lined up for you

00:05

We've got Josh loft us with the reformatory podcast with us. We're gonna be talking the significance of the local church.

00:12

Stay with us We'll be right back John Newton once said the following it is impossible

00:24

That either men or angels can fully sound the depth of this one sentence

00:29

That Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners So if we apply

00:38

Reason proper to this conclusion

00:45

If the church is weak It's not the fault of politicians

00:51

The church is weak where Christ's ministers It is impossible that either men or angels can fully sound the depth of this one sentence

01:05

That Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners Now here's something minister listen to me

01:14

Again, we have this present tense idea. Keep on commanding and teaching and notice

01:20

That if you put these two together we're talking about teaching with authority and you cannot teach with authority based on your

01:27

Position or office you teach with authority only to the degree that you correctly interpret and communicate

01:35

God's Word Here I stand I can do no other

01:46

God help me All right.

02:00

Welcome to the here I stand theology podcast We are a podcast devoted to a pointed and spirited debate of biblical doctrine.

02:08

We don't plan on debating any today we are just going to be talk making some straight talk about the

02:15

Significance of the local church the importance of the local church are you a member of the local church if you are a

02:23

Christian, then you should very well be a Rooted grounded founded member of a local church, but we'll we'll get back to that here in just a moment

02:32

We've got Josh loft us with us from the reformatory podcast and real quick before we bring

02:38

Josh in Let me make just a quick announcement We are a ministry the here

02:44

I stand theology podcast is a ministry of the the local church I myself and I'm an elder at Reformata Baptist Church.

02:53

I serve under Accountability to the other elders at the church I serve in discretion as a servant of God to the people of God at Reformata Baptist Church So everything that you hear on this podcast

03:06

Everything we say everything that comes out of it is a reflection Reformata Baptist Church if we get out of line if we get contrary to the scriptures

03:16

We are not above reproof rebuke or exhortation So long as it's from the

03:22

Word of God, but if you're just coming with a personal pet peeve He's on down the road.

03:27

We got a hold to the word Nevertheless without any further ado we want to bring

03:33

Josh loft us into the podcast with us Josh How are you?

03:39

My man? I am doing well, my friend. I thank you for the opportunity to come on And talk about honestly my my favorite thing to talk about man

03:49

Like I I love talking local church talk the best thing and I'm excited excited to do it with you tonight, man

03:55

Thank you, let's let's be uh, let's be very transparent right up front

04:01

My head my head has been about to explode. I've been wrestling with the with the the computer machines

04:08

I've been wrestling with the mic problems. You helped me a little bit walking through it. The sound should be good.

04:15

If not We'll definitely have the audio to be good. But we hope that both the audio and the video are clear

04:22

So what's weather like there in Seattle, man? So we just got over with a very unconventional snowstorm here in the

04:31

Seattle area Which we don't we don't get So we just went through about a week of having close to a foot of snow on the ground

04:40

Which if you're at all on the in the in the Seattle area, it turns out that people don't know how to drive in snow

04:46

So it is just absolute pandemonium chaos when the snow falls people are freaking out the shelves go empty

04:54

Les Schwab is backed up a mile long and it's it's absolute chaos. So we just got done with that It's been rainy and gray today back to normal So rainy and gray is the normal is what you're saying it really is

05:09

Yeah, anybody who's been around Seattle knows it's the rainy city. And yeah, it's it is a it is a

05:16

Very a very interesting and long -awaited day when the Sun decides to grace us with its presence

05:24

All right, so Josh let's get to it so there's a yeah, I don't know if you've Tracked us or followed us or listened to us.

05:32

But anytime we have a guest on we have a a Very foundational question that we ask kind of sets the tone for the whole podcast

05:41

Okay, and so I'm just gonna go ahead and throw it out to you So Josh if if you and Jack Barry had to arm -wrestle who would win?

05:53

See this is nice because Jack's not here right now so I can answer it However, I want if Jack and I had to arm -wrestle

06:00

So I grew up in eastern, Washington on a horse ranch All right. So I'm an old country boy at heart

06:08

I feel like I would I feel like I would pull out the win But Jack Jack would would probably find a way to overcome me by some nefarious means

06:18

So I'm definitely more brawn. He's definitely more brain. Yeah, so it'd be interesting now

06:24

I kind of want to arm -wrestle him. I kind of want to know now Well what we need we need

06:30

Photographic or video evidence. We need you to send it soon as you all do this Yeah, you've been on the episode now you've been asked the question

06:37

Yeah, Doug Doug Wilson gave of course, you know, everything he said is is kind of Masked and bagged.

06:45

He's very subtle. That's Doug Wilson. I said if you and Toby Sumter had to arm -wrestle who would win and And then he somehow switched the question around he said well it would boil down to this no matter who

06:59

I arm wrestled They would win Because I'd let them It's a and no matter what happens it's because I let you

07:11

Well, and I'm afraid I'm afraid if we're gonna be realistic Jack and I would start we'd get about 10 seconds in and then we'd

07:17

Realize we're both old men and it would just hurt How old are you

07:23

Josh I am I am I turned I'm turning 30 this year All right, so I'm 48 years old

07:32

Yeah You're not an old dude now when you were 15 30 year olds were old dudes, but yeah

07:41

Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. And now now that I'm 30 15 year olds are children. All right, and that's

07:46

That's what's interesting. Yeah Snappers get out. That's right.

07:52

Y 'all making me grumpy So so Josh, how did the how did the reformatory podcast get going?

08:02

Yeah Gosh, so the former Tory's been going for a few years now. It started just kind of as an idea of Just wanting to be able to provide a podcast for our specific local church at the time

08:21

I Jack is actually this is unless you know, people are have listened from the beginning.

08:27

They won't know Jack's actually my second host I started the reformatory with a guy Named Daniel very dear friend still talk to him every day

08:36

He's a pastor out here in Washington Reformed Baptist and we started the reformatory just because we wanted to show

08:45

That you can both Discuss and live out theology and have have have reformed theology

08:54

Calvinistic theology covenantal confessional theology be very important while at the same time not being a jerk

09:01

Right, right and at the same time avoiding avoiding the cage stage as we call it, right?

09:07

So that was the initial idea of the podcast And then through kovat and everything that happened out here in Washington.

09:15

It's just been a mess Daniel had to step back just to focus on church stuff, which makes complete and total sense

09:22

And then I had I had the option. I'm like, okay. Well the reformatory can end or I've got a friend named

09:29

Jack who very like -minded with he could come on and we'll see what happens so ended up calling

09:35

Jack and And it was after Jack came on the the reformatory that our focus really,

09:44

I think Shifted and became very very specific to the reformatory is the podcast specifically devoted to the local church

09:53

That there are so many great Podcasts out there already that talk about all the theology stuff and all of the things that are happening in culture, right?

10:02

And and they do a great job at covering all those things Jack and I's heart really was focused on the local church and we wanted to basically have as the

10:12

The template in our mind if this specific topic whatever it is, whether it's cultural or theological if we can't make a real a

10:24

Real like like like Focus to it within the local church if it doesn't affect the local church in some way

10:31

We're gonna let somebody else cover it, right? So so we began to just our episodes began to just kind of take that form of we're gonna talk about local church stuff polity and you know

10:43

Membership and pastoral, you know things and qualifications just the whole gambit that's the focus that we have now and that's just kind of the train that we've decided to hop on and and It it definitely works for us.

10:56

So That's awesome. That's awesome. And really the only other Podcast that I know of that is that Focused in that dedicated really to making it for that local body is a great friend of mine

11:10

He pastors up the road right up the road from us The EC podcast if you get a chance check them out

11:17

Basically that there's three elders get together for the podcast and they've got a guy named

11:23

Bobby Payne there that goes to the church that Kind of hosting kind of leads the conversation, but they do a great job.

11:29

They really do and yeah, it's definitely a work that's needed and Pastors and members and deacons like they all they all need encouragement

11:37

So the more the more we can give it to them the happier the happier we are. Hey, man Amen, so so let's let's answer these questions real quick What does it mean for us because we are both of us like -minded in this?

11:52

What does it mean number one that we are confessional? Sure. Yeah, I mean short answers that we adhere to a historic biblical confession, right?

12:03

For Presbyterians, it's the Westminster for for some it's the Heidelberg or the

12:10

Pelgic and for us as reformed Baptist usually it's the 1689, right? Basically, what that means is that we see a great value in adhering to a set

12:21

Standard of interpreting the essential truths of Scripture that have been confirmed Historically Right because we you know

12:31

We live we live in a day and age right now where truth is relative and things change

12:36

Right and you go on every church website and there's their statement of faith and you have to like look at it, right?

12:42

I mean, I I view the I view the things I view Confessionalism as the the

12:48

OG statement of faiths Yes, and that here's this wheel that has been confirmed for years and years and years and it's solid

12:57

It's biblical. I'm a fan of not inventing it not reinventing the wheel if we don't have to right?

13:04

So that's honestly why I am I am confessional I want a standard of Scripture of interpreting

13:10

Scripture That is something that I know has roots and something that I know has stood the test of time and wasn't thought up and you know

13:19

Wasn't thought up in a Starbucks by a 28 year old pastor, you know Exactly.

13:25

I'm on the job, right? Who got a special revelation from God That's the that's the

13:35

Chai tea that you ordered it's going bad, right No, I was gonna say yeah, yeah, we don't hold the can we don't hold the confessions as infallible

13:45

We don't hold them to the level of Scripture, right? Scripture is our authority not the confession, but we do believe it is beneficial to have a

13:54

Rock solid interpretation of Scripture that when you have a question, especially in the local church, this is huge in the local church

14:01

Let's go back to our confession and see what it says because it's very very beneficial. Amen. Amen along with confessions

14:10

So catechism, what do you feel? How you feel about catechism? Oh, I'm all I I was catechized as a child

14:16

I am all in with catechisms. I think they are fantastic I think they're Especially if you can get them in your in your head as a kid, right?

14:25

I can't tell you how many times So I was raised on the Westminster Shorter Loved it, and I can't tell you how many times even as an adult

14:34

That Catechism number one. What is man's primary purpose? Why am I here?

14:40

To glorify God and enjoy him forever, right? Catechizing your kids, I think is a fantastic way to get those

14:47

Rock solid truths ingrained into their head that will have flourishing and fruit later in life

14:55

Amen, right? So yeah, i'm a big catechism guy. I love them I was uh looking up there's a

15:01

You know as as children can be there's a little girl in our church She is I mean their family they they just moved down from Connecticut earlier last year

15:11

But man, you talk about a family that does good with their child. I was looking for something that The mom had posted just yeah a week or two ago

15:21

But she is is there anything more intimidating than a child coming up and reciting reform reform doctrine to you?

15:27

It's awesome. There's a pastor. You're like, whoa I better be careful what I say this kid's no this kid knows what he's saying

15:35

Exactly. Exactly. I love it. Yeah, so on sunday mornings. I'm, uh Our goal by the end of this by the end of 2022 is to have the entire church adults and children

15:46

Know the it's the children's catechism, but still yet. It's it's still uh, absolutely unbelievable, but yeah, so I I start in the adult class

15:57

We go through our catechism questions there for the week Then i'm go i'll go to the youth class and then i'll go to the little kids class, but this little girl

16:05

We went in there with her and uh She was in there and another little boy was in in their sunday school class and and we it was the question

16:15

Um, what covenant did god make with adam and eve in the garden? Of course, the answer is the covenant of works.

16:21

Well, she's been catechized on the westminster So the covenant of life is what they say

16:28

So this little girl is so intelligent. She she stopped me. She said hold on a minute.

16:33

Hold on a moment pastor claude There is a difference between the covenant of works and the covenant of grace six years old

16:43

I love it and i'm thinking yes, this is like you're right. I'm a little scared right now

16:50

That's good, that's good stuff. I love it. Well, well Well, whoever those parents are well done to those parents catechize your kids.

16:58

Well, they are awesome. They are awesome. So um, so Of course, we're confessional covenantal.

17:05

So basically being covenantal means we hold to chiefly The covenant of works the covenant of grace and the covenant of redemption, correct?

17:14

What would you add to that? yeah, I would I would add that being covenantal is of is a specific way to interpret the all of the the canon of scripture

17:26

Right and that we don't see god dealing with his people in different stages or or different dispensations, right?

17:34

We see god's plan of redemption from the beginning of time to when christ comes back as being this one overarching consistent coherent story

17:44

That brings glory to him and manifests the glory of jesus christ through the gospel Right.

17:50

So as if we say we are covenantal in the way that we view scripture It means that you don't split scripture up into Into different dispensations.

18:00

Well god dealt with these people here and god has people here god has people here god has people here God has had one people

18:05

That's right the beginning of time and it is his church and he utilized israel to be a physical and outward uh example of a spiritual truth

18:16

Right and just as I plucked israel out from among the nations not, you know

18:21

Not based on anything that they brought to the table So I did you Amen, right? So all of those things you mentioned plus it gives you the

18:30

The I believe the correct perspective Of god's glory through the gospel as the overarching way that we interpret scripture, right?

18:37

Amen, brother. Amen And last of all and this is I love I love to watch people cringe

18:44

Uh, and what does it mean when we say we are calvinistic? Yeah Are there are there truly people who are willing in this day and age to say that they are calvinists, right?

18:56

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, right Well, and I you know, you know the the funny thing especially Especially in the part of the country that i'm uh that that I live in Uh, it's an interesting

19:06

I I have found that when i'm asked that question I have found great benefit in asking the question and answering the question with a question and that is

19:15

What what does calvinism mean to you exactly right because what

19:20

I have found through my life, uh is that Everyone and their brother has a different definition of what calvinism is, right?

19:28

I'm, pretty confident you and I have the same definition So i'm not going to ask you that here But but but it is it is wise to ask that question because sometimes people are throwing like well

19:37

You don't believe in evangelism. You don't believe in prayer You believe god is the author of evil all these things and you're like that is not at all what calvinism teaches, right?

19:45

Exactly So in short, by the way, calvin didn't start calvinism.

19:50

No, he didn't. Yeah, I always point that out too. Yeah He would roll in his grave

19:56

If he heard that we took the salvific truths of scripture and threw his name on it.

20:02

I am convinced of it I believe that I believe that but again that goes back to the fact that very few christians are um, so Ensconced and and founded and grounded in the local church and the local church hasn't been teaching this stuff for years

20:18

Which is a big problem if you would if you ask me, I mean, but again, you know His church history teaches us so much if we just Read it.

20:28

Yeah. No, absolutely. All right. Absolutely. Yep. All right. So our topic as we move along.

20:34

Oh, by the way um Just real quick. I thought i'd play this for you um

20:41

Um because I know how you love papa spro Oh, man, you're gonna make me cry here on air.

20:46

Don't do this. It's just a little riff. Here it is a little video real quick What's wrong with you people

21:12

I'm serious I mean, this is what's wrong with the christian church today. We don't know who god is and we don't know who we are

21:24

All right, all right, so so that That goes it goes it goes with everything

21:31

I know and it's awesome That clip I usually reserve when I do teaching episodes on false teachers.

21:37

I call it the crazy train edition But I had to play that for you because I know you love papa spro

21:44

I do I do I I love that was that was solid Yep, well done. Yeah And again is another side note, dude

21:53

You killed it on y 'all's intro Oh, yeah, I appreciate that man.

21:58

Yeah. Yeah, we we have um, We have we have a lot of fun with the intro music on the reformatory.

22:04

So we we've had the same one for the longest time And in it you'll hear a bunch of different preachers that we appreciate preachers some preachers that we poke fun at a little bit

22:14

Um, but papa spro both in the first one And in our brand new one that we just launched last week at the time of this recording is very prominent within it

22:23

So it's uh, yeah, thank you. Appreciate it I'm serious, dude. It is fantastic. So, uh, so let's let's move into our topic.

22:31

I'm going to respect your time um, so Basically, uh, we are going to be talking about the importance or the significance of the local church

22:40

So three questions kind of to begin us off for our audience to consider as they are listening or watching this number one

22:48

Most importantly we do not ever want to do an episode without Communicating clearly the gospel message.

22:55

So the first question for our listeners and watchers tonight is this Are you a christian?

23:02

The scripture says that we're all born in sin shaped in iniquity That the scripture says there are none good.

23:08

There are none that seek after god there. There are none that are righteous Because of our sins we are separated from god and according to first corinthians 15 1 through 4 the scriptures teach us

23:21

Plainly the gospel is simply this that christ died for our sins

23:26

We we must recognize that we are sinners. We can only know that by God showing us that we are sinners.

23:34

That means being Regenerated made a new creature brought to life so that we can see and recognize

23:40

That we are sinners and our sins separate us from a holy god Christ died on the cross for our sins as an atoning sacrifice for our sins a perpetuatory sacrifice

23:52

Penal substitutionary atonement is the big theological term He gave his life for mine

24:01

Specifically, we believe in definite atonement. So the scriptures teach us that christ died for our sins was buried

24:08

Put in the grave on the third day. He arose from the grave Ascended to the father where he ever lives to make intercession for us

24:17

So most folks will say this. So what do we do with that? The simple biblical answer is this repent?

24:24

Turn from your sin turn to the savior believe the gospel of jesus christ Trust in the finished work of christ on the cross for your sins

24:33

Outside of christ. There is no other hope for you So as we consider this question or this thought the significance of the local church tonight

24:43

First ask yourself. Are you a christian? repent and believe the gospel second

24:48

Are you a committed? and contributing member of a local church Folks don't flinch when you talk to them about salvation nowadays

24:58

Everybody in there i'm in tennessee, by the way Everybody here has been saved six to seventeen hundred times depending on how many bible schools they've gone to right

25:10

The question that really ought to stick in folks craw to put it in country terms

25:16

Is are you a committed and contributing member of a local church? My third question is simply this as we delve into this topic tonight

25:26

If you are a christian and you are not a member of the local church

25:32

Why? Why I believe you'll find out by the time we're finished tonight That you are living in sin contrary to the word of god

25:42

If you are a professing believer in jesus christ having been born again regenerate by the holy spirit of god

25:48

And you are not a member of a local church You're in sin some folks won't say that i'm not afraid to i'm gonna say it and so there so josh is as we uh, basically the basic questions that we'll be covering in uh, key questions we'll be looking at really are uh, what are the defining characteristics and marks of a local church and Is a christian in disobedience to the word of god by not being a member of the local church

26:19

Two questions, but those cover a great bit of territory. What say you brother they do.

26:25

Yeah. Yeah large questions. So um, when we talk about the local church, I think it's important to Obviously define our terms right?

26:34

All right. What are we what are we talking about there? Um, We have obviously the the universal church the invisible church

26:41

However, you want to describe it, you know describing the the elect of god the church capital c right?

26:49

But when we talk about and that is comprised of all of the people that have gone before And will come and and and are here present that are the elect those that have been bought and paid for by the blood of christ

27:01

Amen, when we talk about the local church Small c we are talking about the the local expression of the universal church

27:13

It is the gathering of believers in a set place wherever that is for the express purpose of worshiping

27:20

God on the lord's day Yes, right. Um, so when we talk about the local church, that is what we are speaking about is your gathering, right?

27:29

There's tons of local churches around right? There's many churches in many towns some good some bad

27:35

The local church your local church is the one that you are committed to Right now when we talk about What what makes?

27:44

A local church what what what constitutes a church biblically? Uh, I think I think biblically and historically we have some set parameters of what defines a new testament church

27:56

Right. Um, the first one is the centrality of the gospel

28:01

In preaching in singing in teaching in fellowship of all things It's the centrality of jesus christ in his gospel that has to be there

28:11

If the focus is somewhere else your focus Your foundation is on something that's going to sink, right?

28:19

So that's number one that has to be there Number two the sacraments must be observed rightly and biblically

28:26

Right and for us reformed baptists that means baptism and the lord's supper We just did an episode that's launching at the time of this recording.

28:34

It'll launch, uh this coming thursday But we just did an episode on on the lord's supper communion And and why it's important right and and and what is what who is who is to take it?

28:45

How are they to take it? Um, there's a lot of debate. Uh, As to what's best practice when it comes to taking the lord's supper, but the point is that you have it

28:55

The point is that it is a part of your local church. It has to be there, right? um, I would say third and finally there has to be

29:03

Church discipline there has to be a ruling

29:10

Governing board if you want to call it that although I don't really like the term of qualified elders

29:16

That are overseeing the church overseeing its care and overseeing its protection Right.

29:22

So if one of those three things is missing from the local church Uh Historically, I believe it ceases to fall under the biblical definition of what a new testament church is to be comprised of now

29:36

There are many more important things That the local church needs to have within it to help it be healthy

29:42

Right, but when we talk about the pillars of it Those are the big three

29:48

Amen, it sounds uh sounds like you believe that you're confessional like you were stating earlier sounds like you'll find that I'm gonna i'm just going to jump in like we had in the show notes here.

29:59

Um, the belgic confession, um, Again, the the good historic confessions the westminster you mentioned them the london baptist confession

30:08

Uh the belgic confession. Um, we have the heidelberg catechism. We have all these great confessions we have all these resources to Confirm the truth of the scriptures

30:20

And uh the heidelberg catechism in article 28 actually, I mean it's almost like you were reading from it

30:27

We believe that we ought diligently and circumspectly to discern from the word of god, which is the true church

30:34

Since all sects which are in the world assume to themselves the name of the church

30:40

But we speak not here of hypocrites who are mixed in the church with the good Yet are not of the church though externally in it

30:47

But we say that the body and communion of the true church must be distinguished from all sects

30:53

That call themselves the church the marks of the true church Is that is known are these the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached

31:02

Maintains pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by christ If church discipline is exercised in chastening of sin in short of all things managed according to the pure word of god

31:14

All things contrary thereto rejected jesus christ acknowledged as the only head of the church man

31:21

I wish folks still wrote like this Oh, I truly do. I know but but even but in that we see

31:28

Again, like we see the importance of adhering to a confession Right because those truths like so eloquently

31:36

Described in that confession like that that that is some stake you can dig your teeth into Right and then it beats any statement of faith like I was saying earlier written by written by anybody i'd rather that Yeah that um statements of faith confessions

31:56

I mean definitions definition Definitionality is super important. You made reference to definitions making clarifying definitions a few minutes ago

32:06

But I mean so many churches are built upon a vague Notion and an idea of who god is

32:14

And his true church Is not his his true church is built and i'm not going to sound like one of those, you know wackos

32:22

I'm, just using the the old terminology, but the true church is built upon the word of god

32:27

I mean everything that we do must be centered and focused on the person and work of christ

32:35

If it's not it is exactly like you said misguided So absolutely 100

32:42

Um, so, uh david miller you ever listen to him Preacher david miller. I can't say

32:48

I have I I've the name definitely sounds familiar But I can't say i've listened to anything from him. All right, so he's in a wheelchair

32:54

Um, he can't even hardly move but man, I think he's got the entire bible memorized to hear him preach

33:02

You need to look him up. I'm serious, but he says this he says this metaphors are used to describe the church in scripture

33:10

And you just once you see him preach and see his facial expressions Yeah, you this will mean more to you

33:18

But he said this it's called the body or the invisible building and sometimes the bride of christ

33:24

He said in my opinion the ideas of locality and visibility are inherent in these metaphors

33:30

For example, he says this did any of you ever know of a universal invisible body?

33:36

Did any of you ever know of a universal invisible building? And may the dear lord have mercy upon the poor fellow who marries a universal invisible bride

33:48

He said you can't do anything better than to bend your knee and to bow your heart with godly sorrow

33:54

Turn from your sin in repentance believe on the lord Jesus christ with all your heart and join up with a good bible believing bible teaching church

34:03

And spend your life in that church serving jesus in a local visible congregation

34:09

I'll co -sign that every day and twice on sunday, my man, that's good stuff Yeah, absolutely.

34:15

Well, and you know, it brings up a good point in that and I think we've definitely seen this um

34:22

Through you know Through covid right and 2020 and all of the all of the the the junk that came up from that.

34:31

Um And I definitely saw this like majorly up here in washington um is that The church the concept of church if you will quickly became something that we can individually define

34:48

And it quickly became something that we can play fast and loose with with what constitutes church right

34:56

Um, and and again like I I took flack for it, but i'm gonna say it again like online church

35:03

Is not church. Amen. It's not Right now I am thankful that the lord has given us gifts like the internet so that the gospel can go out to places that That that it wouldn't have been able to right i'm grateful that when i'm down with the flu

35:20

I can I can Turn, you know tune into a live stream and and be edified, right?

35:26

by the word of god but We cannot fall into the trap of Defining that as the same as gathering

35:39

Amen, right when we are commanded in scripture to do to do not forsake the gathering of believers

35:45

There's so many reasons why we are commanded to do that, right? And one of the consequences

35:53

That 2020 brought with it and it was more I'm, not convinced that 2020 caused it.

36:01

I'm convinced that 2020 revealed problems that were already there I agree, right and one of those major ones was the very low view that many have of the local gathering of believers

36:14

Yeah, right and it very quickly became something that oh I can just I can just do at home in my in my pjs

36:20

Watch my pastor and you know Have self -communion, which is just asinine to me.

36:25

I'll be completely honest with you um, craig Yeah, the recent lecrae quote.

36:31

Yeah It was bad It was bad. Um, but sanan is an ideal terminology bad idea right, but but that like that has been the mentality right and we've quickly seen kind of a

36:46

A degrading of what it means to be a part of a local church

36:52

And that's one of the reasons why we very quickly shifted the focus of the reformatory

36:57

So we're seeing this going on around us and we're like man We need people that are on the front lines shouting like this is what the church means

37:05

Amen, this is what the church is. This is what it looks like. This is what it does Um because there are so many principles in scripture when it comes to local church that are non -negotiable

37:16

And gathering physically with your people is one of them Amen Amen, david schrock just another quote here.

37:25

David schrock said commitment to the church has been noticeably absent And hence many born -again christians live out their faith without Understanding the purpose and place of the local church

37:37

Previous generations of church members would be equally puzzled by our our laissez -faire approach to membership

37:44

As well as our absolute self -confidence that we individuals are part of the universal church because we say we are

37:51

Which brings us back to the question? He said how does one know they are a member of christ's universal church if not by membership in the local church

38:01

Because that really that brings I mean that's the ax laid to the to the root of the tree right there

38:07

That's the that's the heart of the matter if if a man or woman Is born again by the grace of god, he will not be able to help but love christ

38:18

Right to thank god for christ to worship christ and to do that with other believers

38:25

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you can't it isn't possible to love jesus christ and yet despises people.

38:32

Amen You can't do it. It's impossible, right? and and that's that's been part of the the the issue for years is and I think we are now seeing the fruit of it is

38:42

That we especially here in america We have lived in this consumeristic americanized christianity that everything's about me, right?

38:50

Everything is about what I can get out of the service and if i'm in church and I don't like the music or I don't

38:55

Like the coffee or I don't like you know, the high prices of the bookstore and the pastor's selling is you know Whatever it is then then like that that that to me is excused to completely unplug from the church and We have lost the meaning and the purpose of the lord's day gathering

39:15

And it is not to serve myself It is not to get an experience.

39:21

It is not to get some goosebumps. I am there to prostate myself before a holy god

39:27

Worship him and revel in the gospel that I have been given. Amen, right and you do that with your family surrounding you

39:34

Right, that's right do that through taking the lord's day meal The the lord's supper you do that through hearing the proclamation of the word of god in preaching

39:44

You do that through proclaiming the truths of scripture and the gospel in song

39:49

You do that in so many ways that when we remove ourselves from that We miss out on the lifeblood that god has given us here as christians because the lone wolf christian thing

40:03

Doesn't work You're exactly right You're exactly right We are not an island unto ourselves

40:11

No, we're not and and really and truly the uh, the uh, the lackadaisical approach to church membership really, um has

40:21

I would say In a large part again because we're in america we can say what we you know, we're here experiencing this has contributed to the um decline

40:35

And and every generation says this and and let me qualify what i'm saying here. First of all

40:41

I I do not I I take I take the approach and communicate

40:49

The idea of sin as this everybody says things just keep getting worse and worse

40:56

But the scriptures do not teach that No Sin is sin from the very beginning

41:03

Just because we didn't know about things doesn't mean that they didn't exist Right the reality is today we are so Inundated with technology that we are more aware of everything that's going on than ever we have before But the fact of the matter is it's been going on since the beginning of the world and it'll go on until christ comes back

41:27

And takes us out of this world completely, right? but But there is still the idea that things that folks will say will things get worse and worse

41:37

And the problem part of the issue is that the the lackadaisical approach to church membership

41:43

Has been eased up on and eased back on by so many preachers because they want to grow their congregations

41:50

And you're not going to grow your congregation by pointing out There's the sin in their life in which they need to be made wreck.

41:58

They need to be reconciled to god made, right? and Why in the world would anybody want accountability and in a local church membership?

42:07

I mean if i'm going to go to church and folks are just going to ridicule me because i've only been there once in the past six months

42:14

I'm not going back there. I don't need that I'll go someplace where I can hop in and I can hop out at my leisure and i'll do my own thing

42:24

And that really is one of the main crux of the issue is that We Will natural our natural state right no matter who you are the natural man despises accountability

42:39

Amen, the natural man does not want to be held accountable for the things that we do Right, um ultimately by god, right but also with each other right, which is what a biblical church membership requires

42:51

Yeah, it requires that I am making covenant with these men as my elders

42:57

And these these other members as my family And then when you see me messing up or in sin

43:06

Something needs to be called out You are duty bound by the by the oath and the covenant that you made with each other overseen by god

43:14

Amen to come alongside me as a brother or come alongside me as a sister and say hey

43:21

I'm here for you in this Here is the gospel Here is what needs to be done

43:27

Let's work this together, right? People don't want that because it's uncomfortable Yep, right.

43:33

We we like the individualistic Mentality and lifestyle that we have grown accustomed to yep anonymity.

43:41

Yeah, exactly exactly and that is and and that is I mean I I really do think now now obviously it's not all

43:51

On this problem, but the integration of of the local church with Things like politics hasn't helped

44:03

Because we are a very free country and we're very proud coming increasingly less

44:10

It is something that is very ingrained in the american people because it's what we're raised in right

44:17

And the unfortunate thing is we take that We take those things that are given to americans in the constitution and we make a direct jump over to the local church

44:29

Yeah, you can't do that Right. We are free from sin from the consequences of hell

44:38

But I am a slave to christ Amen, and I am not supposed to walk through this christian life

44:46

Again on my way to the celestial city I love pilgrim's progress and john bunyan if you guys have not read the pilgrim's progress by john bunyan you have to read it

44:56

Right, but it gives this perfect picture that that we where we are living right now. This is the city of destruction

45:03

It's gonna burn And we are marching together as a family toward the celestial city and our our our loyalty is with each other

45:11

And to the king of that city Right man, I wish that more people had that mentality

45:17

When viewing the local church because I really think the concept of us being sojourners walking together aliens in this world uh really

45:27

Provides the correct focus of how we're to view our brothers and sisters in christ Amen, amen and to keep the kid to keep this idea balanced, you know, it's not just about uh being

45:39

With others in fellowship so they can we can point out each other's issues and sins and problems

45:44

But it's so that we can encourage one another Absolutely so that we can hundred percent

45:50

My goodness gracious. I mean, I I don't I I assume you've probably got friends like this uh, maybe you and jack are like this, but man

46:00

There is something so encouraging about getting a text from somebody and A christian brother or sister in christ that says

46:08

I just wanted to take a minute and tell you I love you Oh, it's the best for you There I mean, there's nothing better than that and to go to church and that's what the scriptures teach.

46:18

I mean Everything is rooted and grounded in the scriptures The purpose of gathering together is so that we can sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs

46:27

And and I think this is missed by most folks we are truly we are singing them to the lord

46:33

But when we are gathered together We are singing and encouraging one another

46:39

Yeah to one another in the Encouraging to edify one another so that when we do go out in this world and we get land -blasted

46:49

We We know that there's somebody that understands and that knows and that cares right we're not alone in the fight

46:58

That's that's the one thing you may like a person may like being all alone and separated

47:03

Until the time comes that you need somebody there whether it's often or not so often

47:10

But you need somebody there. We can't we can't handle this alone

47:16

But thanks be to god that he has given us his church Completely 100 percent agree there is there has been nothing that has

47:30

Been such a light to me in the darkest times of my life um very recently my wife and I gone gone through very very just heart -wrenching difficult things and There was nothing that was more comforting to me in those moments when

47:50

I was in the depths of depression and anxiety just and asking a

47:56

Being like jobe asking god like Lord, I I trust you, but why?

48:03

Where is the relief Right and the lord came to me not through some great theological concept

48:11

Not through some amazing sermon He came to me through the faithful brothers and sisters that came alongside me and said josh.

48:19

We're here for you. Amen We understand We know what you're going through and we are here to help man.

48:26

If I didn't have the local church And I didn't have the network of friends that I have from other churches people like jack other pastors that i'm in Contact with that that that I that we talked through, you know multiple times a week

48:40

Uh, I would i'd be a wreck I would be a wreck because I know i'm not strong enough claud

48:46

I'm, not strong enough to handle the things that life throws at me And that's why god tells us gather with your church because my strength is found there

48:58

Amen, right and that's man. That's that's what we need man and and I mean This is why I love talking about it because it's not it's not at all that I have this in my back pocket

49:08

The reason I I I thank the lord for giving me this focus is because this is a focus

49:13

I need to be reminded of every day Yeah, it's it's it's it's self -medicating

49:18

It's what it is. Like I need this so i'm going to talk about it all the flipping time

49:28

Well again that goes back to the scripture in the old testament What did the lord teach them to do with the law talk about it day and night when you get up?

49:35

When you go to bed when you're walking on the road if you go to walmart talk about it if you go to work talk about it

49:43

It's it's it's the best news this world has ever heard Christ died for our sins.

49:48

Yeah, I mean truly they may not realize it, but it is the best news Yeah, so yeah, so we've we've we've walked through there the you know, the importance of the local church

49:59

It it how that it keeps us accountable how that it encourage us being a regular member of the local church um, so as far as The scripture, uh, the scriptures teaching in hebrews 10, right forsake not the assembling of yourselves together uh, even the uh, the wayward

50:19

The wayward christian knows this they don't want to acknowledge it a lot of times but right

50:25

For don't forsake the assembly of yourselves together so hebrews Um, are you of the mind that that's basically a big sermon?

50:33

The book of hebrews. Oh, oh, it's massive. Yeah, it's a huge sermon and it's a obviously directed to a to a specific people

50:41

But something so applicable to us Yes, and and and I will say the person that preached that sermon was paul

50:48

I don't care who any who says anything else. It was paul and I will Hold on just a minute.

50:55

Let me let me turn here now Did I open a can of worms? No, you didn't you didn't open the can of worms.

51:02

I'm i'm affirming that brother i'm saying amen I'm saying amen where you where I ought to say amen so chapter 13 verse 20, um

51:13

Let's just read 20 just because it's good to go back a little bit Paul closes the epistle or the the sermon here

51:22

May the god of peace who brought you brought up our lord Jesus from the dead that great shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the everlasting covenant

51:30

Make you complete in every good work to do his will working in you What is well pleasing in his sight through jesus christ to whom be glory forever and ever amen

51:41

And I appeal to you brethren bear with the word of exhortation for i've written to you in a few words

51:47

Know that our brother timothy has been set free with whom I shall see you if he comes shortly

51:52

Greet all those who rule over you and all the saints those from italy greet you grace be with you all amen timothy

52:01

We see that connection there he's hanging with his homeboy, you know, that's exactly right That's exactly right he didn't hang out with anybody else he didn't want

52:11

Well, there's there's there's so much again. There's so much pauline. I mean You know, we're known by our expressions

52:20

So Yeah, I agree 100. All right. So there's our little uh, there's our little side trail.

52:27

Yeah. Yeah and if you don't Let's arm wrestle. That's right.

52:34

That's right All right. So, uh epistle to diagnetus not scripture, but a second century, uh historical truth

52:42

Says this for christians are not distinguished from the rest of humanity by country language or custom

52:48

They live in both greek and barbarian cities as each one's lot was cast And they follow the customs in dress and food and other aspects of life at the same time

52:59

They demonstrate the remarkable and admittedly unusual character of their own citizenship

53:05

For we which back to the scripture This world is not our home we are citizens of heaven

53:15

Of the heavenly kingdom so That that is so profound there. Let's let's move to a close and you got anything else you want to add on anything else?

53:22

We've talked about there. Oh, no, man. Just just yeah, I mean, I i've said it before i'll say it again

53:30

You as a christian we can often often talk about like you need to be

53:36

You need to be part of a local church and it can often come across with many as law

53:42

Right, and yes, there is law associated. We are commanded to gather and if we do not we are in disobedience but There is so much to gain

53:54

Amen, so much blessing to have When you commit to your brothers and sisters in that local church

54:00

There is it is it is blessing upon blessing and the lord will reveal himself to you through the gospel in ways that you

54:08

Do not think are possible through his people the amount of comfort and grace

54:14

And hope that the lord will give to you through his people is beyond anything that you can

54:19

You can even begin to imagine it is it is such a blessing to be part of a local body

54:24

You need to do it. We're commanded to do it. You will be Insanely blessed

54:30

Amen, so i'm gonna i'm gonna close here by reading article 38 of the belgic confession

54:38

Which just basically restates again affirms what you just said everyone is bound to join himself to the true church

54:46

We believe since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved And outside of it there is no salvation that no person of whatsoever state or condition

54:56

He may be ought to withdraw from it Content to be by himself But that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it maintaining the unity of the church submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof

55:11

Bowing their necks under the yoke of jesus christ and as mutual members of the same body

55:16

Serving to the edification of the brethren according to the talents god has given them

55:22

But josh in any case Sir, truly. Thank you. Thank you for your patience with me today even though I was late getting getting to you and I'd asked you to meet early and I was late getting to our early meeting, but I do apologize for that.

55:37

I appreciate you Your ministry the work that y 'all do, uh, you're in our prayers regularly

55:43

On a daily basis literally we're lifting you up to the lord pray the lord continues to bless you and use you um, and if I had a

55:52

Any in any more encouragement that I could leave with you it'd simply be this it'd be from first corinthians.

55:58

Let me get here Make sure I quote it correctly to you Of course, it's the the 15th chapter the the resurrect paul states the importance of the resurrection, but he closes

56:09

And he says my beloved brethren be steadfast Unmovable always abounding in the work of the lord knowing this that your labor is not in vain

56:19

So I want to encourage you with the word brother, thanks again for being here hang out for just a minute I'm going to end the broadcast.

56:25

We'll talk for just a minute before we Disconnect. Okay. Sounds great. Thanks for having me claude and uh, great being with you and uh, hope