WWUTT 700 Q&A Understanding the Trinity, Correcting Opponents with Gentleness, and What is Liberal Theology?

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How important is the doctrine of the Trinity? How do we help somebody understand the doctrine of the

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Trinity? And how do we kindly respond to our brothers and sisters who are being led astray by false teaching?

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The answers to these questions when we understand the text. This is

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When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible study podcast to help encourage your time in the Word. Be sure to tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt

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.com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So I think you got a question via Twitter about putting all of the what videos?

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Oh, yes, on a DVD. On a DVD. Okay. Yes. I have had to say no to any requests for that, mostly because I don't have the time.

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And any time I make a new video, I would have to completely change everything that's going to go on the

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DVD, which is more complicated than just putting everything on a flash drive. Okay. So what

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I would encourage you to do is send a flash drive or an SD card.

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You could always do that, too. We were just talking about the 8 gig flash drive or the thumb drive, but you could also send an

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SD card that's at least 8 gigabytes, and I can put all the videos on that as well. And also include a self -addressed stamped envelope that I can drop the flash drive or the

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SD card back into and mail back to you. Right. And then encourage you to figure out a way that you can then take those videos and put them on DVD, mostly because I don't have the time.

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If there's, what do they call that, like with the CD -ROM, there's the

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CD where you can burn a CD in there, like a thing that you can burn a

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DVD? Is that right? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, my laptop will even burn DVDs. Oh, well, there you go.

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But I'm just saying when you do that, you've got to lay everything out. You know, you have to create the menu options and all this other kind of thing.

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If you take a flash drive and you're just dumping a whole folder onto the drive, that's all I got to do. Drag and drop.

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Yeah. And then everything's on the flash drive. Oh, I gotcha. But with the DVD, I got to do a whole setup. And so send the flash drive or the

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SD card, and I'll put all the videos on that. And then if you want to make a DVD, you can.

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My only request would be that you're not trying to profit off of it, but you're certainly welcome to make DVDs.

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There was somebody who sent me a drive. This was like a year ago. So this was like 50 what videos ago.

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But they sent me a flash drive. I put all the videos on it, and they wanted to turn all the videos into a

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DVD to take them to nursing homes. Oh, that's awesome. Because they were actually taking them to retirement centers and nursing homes and showing the videos with the folks that they ministered to there.

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So that's a great idea. That is nice. But yeah, that would be my recommendation. I don't have the time.

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So the address, once again, if you want to send your 8 gig flash drive or SD card to get all the what videos, which

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I will do for free, First Southern Baptist Church, 1220 West 8th

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Street, Junction City, Kansas, 66441, and put attention Pastor Gabe on there or something like that, and it will get to me.

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Okay, the emails that we have today, which by the way, if you have a question for our Friday podcast, the email address is when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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The emails today, we're going to Canada. We're going to Cape Town, South Africa.

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Oh, fun. And then back around to the United States, and we'll be in Georgia. So this first one from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Kevin says,

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Dear brother in Christ, thank you for everything you and your lovely wife do for the ministry God has put before you.

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Aw, thanks. I pray for you by name regularly. May God give you strength and health to carry on the work you do in his name.

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Thank you. That's a prayer you needed today. Yes. Yeah. Becky wasn't sick, but she just wasn't feeling it today.

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Nope. Not today. Just one of those days, you just don't want to do the day. Nope. This is the kind of day.

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I wanted to go back to bed. That's right. It's the kind of day that people make those memes about, like, can I just not adult today?

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Yes. I don't want to do any adulting today. I'm calling in. What are your thoughts on the oneness doctrine?

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And what are your thoughts on the first five minutes of this Steven Anderson video? Thank you.

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And God bless. I knew I was in for a treat clicking on a Steven Anderson video. I don't know who that is.

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Okay. He is. He is a. He is a King James only. So that might tell you something right there.

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Independent fundamentalist. He's a loud mouth preacher from Arizona. Okay. You've seen him.

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Probably. You just probably haven't retained that. The name. Right. You know, I do that a lot. Put it with the face.

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Steven Anderson. Five minutes of this video was all I could do. Okay. He gets to a point where he's just outright shouting and yelling.

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So I'm giving you that heads up ahead of time. He doesn't swear. It's not like he gets vulgar, but it's still as offensive.

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Just his shouting and his yelling. So I've skipped to a part in the video. This is still just within, like, the first five minutes.

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I've skipped to a part in the video where somebody tried to come forward in the service and argue with the doctrine of the

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Trinity. Okay. So Steven Anderson believes in Trinity. He's saying oneness doctrine, modalist doctrine, anything that would be contrary to the

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Trinity is a cult. Okay. And so there's a guy at the beginning of the service tries to come up and argue with him, and they have, like, security jump right up and grab him and are dragging him out.

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Oh, interesting. When he's trying to argue with Steven Anderson over the doctrine of the Trinity. So this is a sermon?

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Yeah, this is during church. Oh, well, okay. I get that. That's not the time or the place.

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Yeah. I mean, it wasn't necessarily unjustified to have removed that man. You have no idea what his intentions are when somebody's just trying to get up and walk towards you.

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Yeah. No joke. In the middle of church. And when he's trying to argue during a sermon, that's just not the time to do it.

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Right. You have that conversation after church is over. And so security is dragging him out.

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And then he just blows a gasket. So this is right after that guy has tried to come forward and interrupt the service.

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Okay. And so picking up the sermon right there. And you know what? Anybody wants to come up here and take over the service?

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We'll throw you out of here, buddy. This church is not a free -for -all. This isn't an open mic.

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This isn't a karaoke bar. Okay. I'm the man of God here. I meet the qualifications.

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I run this church. And if you don't like it, then get out. This is not some church where every first -time visitor and brand new believer and people who've never even read the

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Bible are going to come up and take over the service. Not happening. Okay.

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If you want that kind of watered -down leadership, go to some house church with your Amish buddies and sit around the coffee table with your coffee klatch.

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This is a New Testament church. We have a bishop here. We have an overseer here.

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Like it or lump it. And if you don't like it, feel free to get up and leave the service at any time. And if you're one of these oneness people, why don't you have the guts?

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Why don't you have the courage to get up and leave right now? Have the gall and the courage to come and face us and tell us.

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And the thing is, is that guy did have the guts. Yeah. So does he want that?

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It's like, first of all, he's telling you, don't disrupt this service, but have the guts to face us.

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Hang on. Maybe he can clarify that a little bit. You're kind of contradicting yourself there. So the way that he began the service, he was talking about a guy that they had to remove because he was contesting the doctrine of the

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Trinity, which is a fundamental doctrine. And I'll get to that here in just a moment. But it's the way

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Anderson responds to this and the church's reaction to that, that's really quite godless.

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And so you'll kind of notice that as we go on, he's going to continue to call out that guy that he was calling out at the beginning of the service.

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They had to remove because he didn't believe the doctrine of the Trinity. Instead of being like Dominique, who texts us after he sat, you all heard him sit in the front row of this church, yelling amen every time

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I preached about the Trinity. Go back on YouTube, watch all the YouTube videos. And what's he doing? He's sitting in the front row yelling amen.

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And now he's telling people, oh, I never really fully agreed on the Trinity. Then why'd you yell amen every time

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I talked about it and every time I preached against oneness? I'll tell you why. Because he's a hypocrite. That's why.

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People are hypocrites who like to sit in the front row and say amen loudly, even though they don't believe in it.

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That's called being a hypocrite. And then it's like they're yelling amen one day. And then two days later, it's like, oh,

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I've got to leave the church because I don't believe in the Trinity. You say, I'm not comfortable with this.

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Then just take a hike. Go take a hike. You know what? You ought to be thankful that you have a pastor who stands on Bible doctrine and doesn't care what people say.

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And I don't care if 90 percent of people get up and walk out or 50 percent of people walk out. I don't care because you know what?

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I'm not going to pastor a oneness cult. I'm not going to pastor a Pentecostal church.

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I'm the pastor of a Baptist church. And if you're not a Baptist, then get out.

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We're not going to let a bunch of heretics come in and split this church and bring in all this junk.

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This church is going to be unified around Bible doctrine. It's not happening.

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You say, well, it's just a sweetness and light. Can't we all get along? You know, we could all get along if people would actually believe the

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Bible, but they don't. So sometimes we have to crack some heads. What? Oh, my goodness.

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I think the word you're looking for is there, but I can't do it justice. Yeah, don't you just love a good

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Steven Anderson clip there? Oh, so and part part that I didn't play. And this, again, was back in the beginning when he was calling out

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Dominique and saying they had to remove this guy from their church and all this. He said that I'm not a respecter of persons.

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Like he outright said that. He said, God's not a respecter of persons. So I'm not a respecter of persons.

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So this is how he justifies yelling and shouting the way that he did because he doesn't have to respect anybody.

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So obviously, like I said, the first five minutes of that was all I could stand. And he just has no shame that he will even say of himself, he's not a respecter of persons.

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And he boasts in himself and says, I'm the man of God here. I'm the one who's qualified. But he's actually disqualified himself with all of his yelling and ranting and openly saying that he has no respect for other people.

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Does is it how bad is it that it reminds me of our three year olds fit? Well, that's that's really the way that it is experienced quite a bit of that today.

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So so he sorry he can't justifiably call himself a man of God when he's going to react like a three year old.

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So among the qualifications for overseer, when we went through this in First Timothy three, and even what we read in Second Timothy two, because remember,

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I mentioned that that even there we have qualifications for an overseer. We always seem to single out

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First Timothy three, one through seven, and Titus chapter one, five through nine. But we don't consider that section of Second Timothy two, where Paul says that the

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Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome, right, but kind to everyone.

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Right. And specifically, the context is respected in in the in the area.

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Right. You must be well thought of by outsiders. Right. Yes. And if he's shouting and yelling at his congregation like that, that's not going to bring a good reputation from outside people, especially when it hasn't with me anyway.

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Not in this clip that we played here, especially when the world is supposed to know us by our love for each other in Christ.

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Right. And he's not displaying that in this sermon. You haven't seen any of that thus far.

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And so among the qualifications that we read, including First Timothy three and Titus one, he must be self -controlled.

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He must be gentle. He must not be quarrelsome. Right. He must not be arrogant.

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Yeah. And he must not be quick tempered. And all of those things, every one of them we saw in Stephen Anderson just in those three minutes or so that we were listening to.

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Yeah. They opposing. So, yeah, right. He was he was opposing all of those, all of those qualifications.

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Second Timothy two, twenty four through twenty five. It says that the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting opponents with gentleness.

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And God may perhaps grant them repentance, leading to a knowledge of the truth. That kind of behavior actually displays that he does not believe

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God is sovereign because he thinks that he has to take this much control over the situation.

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And there's a lot of insecurity that is displayed. Oh, yeah. As much as he puffed himself up.

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Yeah, precisely. That was a lot of telltale signs in my experience. A lot of chess beating.

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Yeah. Going on there. So that aside now, now having talked about Anderson and how in those few minutes he's actually disqualified himself as an overseer of the church.

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That aside, the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed a foundational doctrine of the Christian faith. As James White has said, it is the central doctrine of the faith because what distinguishes

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Christianity from other monotheist religions like Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses and even

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Judaism? And by the way, Mormonism is not a monotheist religion. OK, they are polytheist.

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Right. Because they believe that there are millions of gods. Right. So among the monotheist religions, the doctrine that separates

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Christianity out from all the rest is the Trinity, that our one

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God is three persons. And when we talk about God as God, when we refer to him in that way, we're talking about the what of God.

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When we refer to the persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, we're talking about the who of God. So God is one what and three who's, the being of God and then the three persons,

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Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And why is it so difficult for us to comprehend that we're still only talking about one

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God here, not three gods? The reason why the doctrine of the Trinity is so difficult for us to comprehend is because we're not

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God. Right. And you won't understand. You will. You will complicate it. It will be difficult.

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And because it's so easy for us to misconstrue, that's why sometimes our definitions can border on heresy, because because we try to to over put it into people words.

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Well, yeah, right. We try to simplify the Trinity to a point that and it's not simple. It is not a simple doctrine to understand.

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Don't put God in a box. A person's theology will be greatly affected by their understanding of the

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Trinity. So you think of all the other doctrines that will be affected by that, like a theology on marriage, the theology of the deity of Christ, understanding the eternal nature of God, as Jesus talked about in John 17, that the

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Father, Son and the Spirit all glorified in one another for all eternity before the foundation of the world.

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Even one's understanding of soteriology, which is the study of salvation, because salvation itself is a

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Trinitarian work. The salvation of God's people has been appointed by the father from before the foundation of the world.

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It is accomplished by the son in his death on the cross, and it is applied to a person's heart by the

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Holy Spirit who makes it alive inside of a person. This is why you have one person who hears the gospel and is unaffected by it, and another person hears the gospel and they're completely brokenhearted and changed by it is because the

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Holy Spirit has made it alive in their hearts. And so this is... And it has nothing to do with the person who gave them the word.

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Yeah, this is all the work of God. That's right. It's all been foreordained. So one of my all -time favorite hymns is

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Holy, Holy, Holy, and I love how much our kids love it, too. Oh, yes. It's one of their favorites.

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And I know that one of the reasons they love it is because of the repetitious nature of it, because Aria, our three -year -old, who we've already mentioned, she also loves

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Standing on the Promises because of how many times we sing that over and over again in the chorus. She can get the words right.

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Right. Whenever we are criticizing modern worship music, typically we'll make fun of the songs as being 7 -11 songs, the same seven words repeated 11 times.

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Personally, given to a certain extent, I don't have much of a problem with repetition in songs, whether you're talking about hymns or modern worship songs, because our kids remember them.

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Yes, they do. And when you're repeating them over and over again, right. And even adults who are still immature in their faith, when they're trying to grasp an understanding of God and the way that he works, when you have those songs with repetitious phrases, it's very helpful.

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Yes. Now, I still think even when a song is repetitious, it still has to be in line with what scripture says.

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Oh, yeah. And the doctrine needs to be deep. It can't be one of those love songs that you could just replace the name of Jesus and it could apply to your girlfriend.

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It has to be grounded and rooted according to what the scripture says about God, not motivated by our feelings or these big bridges and phrases and musical interludes that are supposed to move us in the

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Holy Spirit. Yeah, because then it doesn't ever know what to do with my hand. I know. I mean, what am

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I doing? Am I swaying here? Hey, do I pull out my lighter? No, I'm like, ah, but the what was

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I saying? Songs moving a song can move you. That's just not the point.

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Right. The point is not to be this. This is not for you best. Right. It's not for you. Right. It's for God.

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So when you have the band who's playing these big, huge musical phrases, then it just becomes a show and a concert.

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Yeah. The congregation is no longer involved. Right. So the person on stage is leading the congregation together in this, in this singing, but we can even have deep spiritual truths in the songs that we sing, including about the doctrine of the

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Trinity, which there aren't many songs. Holy, holy, holy is kind of like the quintessential Trinity song, but there are otherwise not too many songs that mention the

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Trinity yet. Yet in our Christian faith, it is such an essential doctrine to behold.

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To reject the Trinity is to reject God himself, for it is to believe in a different God than the

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God of the Bible. Right. So we read in 1 John 2 22, who is the liar, but he who denies that Jesus is the

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Christ, this is the antichrist, he who denies the father and the son. So again, it's, it's a difficult doctrine to grasp, but I hope that it doesn't discourage you from studying it and understanding some of the early church creeds regarding the

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Trinity and how some of the early church fathers described the Trinity, then go on to read the

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Westminster Shorter Catechism or the London Baptist Confession, because if we have our theology rooted in historically biblical orthodoxy, we can be sure that our doctrine is right.

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And we're not being heretics when we try to describe the Trinity. So look to other teachers that will help you in understanding those things and how to word that.

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And I hope that helps a little bit. Uh, it, it shed some light on Anderson's disqualification. I hope, uh, but also the beauty of the

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Trinity oneness and unitarian doctrines are indeed heretical, but even confronting such false teaching still needs to be done with gentleness and respect.

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Yes, most definitely. And that's certainly something that, uh, uh, Anderson did not model there.

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Okay. Next question. This one is from South Africa and we're talking about the same subject here.

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We're still talking about, uh, uh, modalism. This time we're going to talk about modalism versus the Trinity. So modalism is the idea that, that God is father, son, and Holy spirit, but he just presents himself in different modes.

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So sometimes he's a father, sometimes he's a son, and sometimes he's the Holy spirit, but he's not all three in one.

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Okay. So same time, right? Exactly. Okay. So this is, this comes from Simeon and he says, hi, pastor

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Hughes. I want to start off by honoring you for the faithful and good work that you are doing, knowing that your ministry bears a lot of fruit.

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I have known about your YouTube videos for a while, but have only recently discovered your podcast. My job requires me to do a lot of driving.

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So I'm always looking for podcasts that would enrich me and yours falls right into that category.

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Many blessings to you and to your wife. Oh, thank you. One of the things I want to add to that for going on to his question here, uh, these videos, or I'm sorry, videos, the podcast episodes, when we finish them and they get uploaded to pod bean, which is the host site that we use to keep all of the podcasts together, right?

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Once the podcast is uploaded, it's converted into a video and automatically posted on Facebook.

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Like I don't have to do that. That's, that's something pod bean has as a feature. Uh, so some folks will listen to the podcast on Facebook and not be aware.

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That you can subscribe to this on your phone and not have to listen to it on That's true.

22:07

So you can either download the pod bean app and look for WWU TT, or if you listen on iTunes, look for when we understand the text, uh, there's another podcast collector on Android, but anyway, you're looking for either

22:20

WWU TT or when we understand the text and either one will pull up the podcast so you can download it to your phone and not have to play the video on Facebook every time.

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There you go. So, uh, going on with Simeon's question here, I have recently had an interaction with modalists from the prophet

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William Branham movement. I have to say, I actually don't know what that is. So one of the go -to texts they use to deny the

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Trinity is Isaiah nine, six for unto us, a child is born to us.

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A son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, mighty

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God, everlasting father, prince of peace. We'll come back to that.

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They say that if this passage refers to Jesus and it does, then Jesus is everlasting father and therefore not two different persons, but the father incarnate.

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The other go -to texts are Matthew 28, 19, go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the

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Holy Spirit and acts two 38. And Peter said to them, repent and be baptized. Every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the

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Holy spirit. They would say that Peter understood that the name of the father, son, and Holy spirit is

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Jesus. Therefore making them the same person and is why he only baptized them in Jesus name.

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There are so many other texts that show the clear distinction of the persons of the Trinity, but they look at those through the lenses of these go -to texts.

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Could you please give advice on understanding these two texts? So let's go back to the

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Isaiah nine, six reference where Jesus is being described. And yes, it is talking about Jesus there.

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He's being described as the wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace.

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Why would Christ be described there as an everlasting father? It is because Christianity has been founded by Christ who would be considered the father of this religion, but he is also with us always, as he said to his even there in that Matthew 28 passage,

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I will be with you always to the very end of the age, right? This is Jesus being as a benevolent father.

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As he also said, I will not leave you as orphans. I will come to you. He is as a father.

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It doesn't mean he is God, the father, and you will never find a passage in scripture, old

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Testament or new that describes him as God, the father. So if you're ever talking with a modalist about this and they bring up this passage, this is a very common passage to refer to Christ as father, because it says so in Isaiah nine, six, simply ask them, can you point me to a place in the scripture where Jesus described himself as father and you won't find one?

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It isn't there. So that means the Isaiah nine, six passage has a different meaning in mind than saying that Jesus is

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God, the father, right? It doesn't ever say that. Saying that he is an everlasting father is simply to say that he is benevolent and he takes care of his children as though he were a father, but it doesn't equate him as being

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God, the father. Now we understand the doctrine of the Trinity because of the new Testament.

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When you look in the old Testament and you see the Trinity, it's because Christ has revealed it.

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So Jesus shows us the father and he sends the Holy spirit. But if you were to just read the old

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Testament without any knowledge of the new Testament, you wouldn't see that. Jesus is the one that has opened to us an understanding of who

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God, the father is, who the son is, and who the Holy spirit is. So it's in Matthew chapter 11, where Jesus says, nobody knows the father, except the son and anyone to whom the son chooses to reveal him.

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Who was Jesus praying to when he prayed? Right. That's a great question.

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I know. So whenever I've talked with Motilis and, uh, and this is a common thing in our community, uh, oneness

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Pentecostalism is huge in Junction City, Kansas. One of the largest churches here in town is a oneness

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Pentecostal church. And whenever I've had interactions with some of those, uh, men and women from that church, and it's usually the men and usually guys who are teachers, if I talk to anyone else, who's not a teacher, they'll just tell me,

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We'll go talk to right, you know the pastor, right? It's usually the way that they will respond But if I'm talking to one of the elders or somebody who is actually a teacher there in the church

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I will bring up Matthew 28 and Here is how I confront the problem in Matthew 28 verse 18

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So understanding these verses always good to look at the context not just taking the verse by itself or as a fragment but go to Matthew 28 verse 18 and Jesus came and said to them all

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Authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me now verse 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations

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Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you and behold

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I am with you always to the end of the age now arguing with them about verse 19 is not going to get you anywhere because they know that verse and they know how to argue that verse

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To explain how Jesus is Father and Son and Holy Spirit according to their theology.

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Okay? Yeah So the way that you confront this matter whenever the subject of Matthew 28 19 comes up is to remind them of verse 18 where Jesus says all

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Authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. So here's then the question who gave

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Jesus authority Hmm, where did it come from and of all the canned answers that I get from the oneness

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Pentecostals in our community No one has ever tried to give me a straight answer on that question

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They're always stumped by it and they always try to jump right back to verse 19 Well when you understand what

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Jesus meant when he said Then to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son of the Holy Spirit and I'll try to kind of bring the conversation

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Can you tell me where Jesus got his authority from if he says all

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Authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me

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Given to him by whom right? that's how you can help direct a modalist to an understanding of a difference between the

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Father and the Son the two questions on who is Jesus praying to and who gave him authority and There are gonna be times in these conversations in which you're just seeing that you're not gonna get anywhere with this individual

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And you're just gonna have to in wisdom find a place to conclude the discussion Most definitely don't don't try to push them into a corner or try to get angry.

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Yeah. Yeah Don't yeah, don't start shouting like Steven Anderson Please don't don't don't think that you've got to get blood on your spiritual sword

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I got you now right because what ends up happening is their heart gets even more Hardened and they and they have animosity toward you most definitely and you're the reason why right?

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I can't answer this question, right and and then they will just become more hardened to it instead of going home and researching

29:43

Yeah Trying to find that answer and leaving it to their mind and to their heart for the spirit to work on them so that hopefully they'll realize boy,

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I I've never considered that before I've never seen the scriptures in that way Because they have been ensnared by Satan to believe something about God.

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That is not true This is just as Paul was describing in 2nd Timothy chapter 2 They've been in the snare of Satan captured by him to do his will and so we must respond with gentleness

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And it is God who may perhaps grant them repentance Leading to a knowledge of the truth because remember

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Jesus said that he's the one who reveals the Father and the Father is the one who reveals the

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Son. So this is a perfect Doctrinal example of how God is the one who reveals the truth

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Even when it comes to understanding difficult concepts like the Trinity We still must approach these things gently, especially understanding that on a doctrine like the

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Trinity It's a difficult doctrine even for you to comprehend All right, and you've been a

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Christian for you know 10 or 20 years or whatever back to the passage in Acts 2 38 Peter said to them repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

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Honestly, I wouldn't try to argue that one That's not going to help direct the person to an understanding of a difference between father and son

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Yeah, you know, it's kind of like they follow their trail of their theology to get to that verse But you don't have to go there.

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Don't let the don't let the conversation be derailed in that direction and don't be discouraged Just keep it up Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna have times where you'll have these conversations and you'll walk away from them and going boy

31:23

I could have done better with that. Yeah hindsight's always 2020 it does just always the more that you put yourself in the scripture and you fill your mind up with The Word of God as being your answers to these questions that people will ask

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The easier it will be for you to keep a spirit of gentleness to keep to keep calm to be confident

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Not in your words, but in God's Word, right? So the more of God's Word that you can fill up your heart will be secure

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You'll be secure. You will have the wisdom and guidance of God as you go into conversations like that Okay, last question here comes from Brett.

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We've gone from Canada to South Africa now We're back around to the United States. All right

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Brett is in Alpharetta, Georgia He says pastor Gabe. I so appreciate you.

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I'm sorry your clear description of the unhitching issue Coming from Andy Stanley as articulated in your daily podcast and blog in listening to your podcast

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You mentioned that you had extended family that were either members or attended

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North Point or one of its multi -site campuses I share the concern that you have for your family with this incorrect teaching as I live within ten miles of this church and thus have

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Many friends neighbors and even my neighborhood Bible study brothers that attend I would like to ask for your guidance on how

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I can lovingly in a true spirit of grace and truth Discuss my concerns with my friends as I assume you have with members of your family

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You mentioned following Andy Stanley's liberal and reckless teaching will lead a person away from biblical fidelity and toward more and more

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Ungodliness, this is my concern for my friends and my neighbors as well And so my heart's desire to engage this false teaching in the most biblical

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Christ like way as possible. Thank you for any suggestions. You may have also

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Can you suggest any reading material on liberal theology that would give me a greater understanding of its?

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Genesis how to recognize it and more importantly to stand against it May God richly bless you and your family in ministry

33:27

And if you ever come to the Alpharetta, Georgia area, it would be my honor to treat you and your family to dinner. Oh I think that's where wretched studios is that aren't they in Alpharetta?

33:37

I think so. Yeah, so we were we were down there Right north side of Atlanta. Yeah, so we were down there a couple of years ago visited

33:44

Todd Friel in the gang So yeah, hey my my family my folks live in Jonesboro, so yeah

33:52

Brett forever down that way. I'll let you know. Hopefully I'll keep your email address You have a cousin that lived used to live.

33:59

Anyway, oh, yeah cousins and uncle all over right up in that area, too Up in Alpharetta not

34:05

Alpharetta exactly, but northern side of Atlanta. Yeah. Yeah, I think so I don't remember exactly where I don't either.

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Yeah, but my mom and dad is is not who attends The the Andy Stanley Church, it's not not my folks

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So what advice could I give you on how you can confront your friends about what Andy Stanley is teaching

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Asking a question you have the right foot started Wanting to approach this with grace and kindness right and and respect and gentleness, correct

34:38

Doing so in a spirit of gentleness. That's an awesome heart to have first off.

34:43

Yeah, perfect I mean you could find a nice breaker or you could just jump right into so let's have a conversation about Andy Stanley, you know

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But maybe you could ask on your audience Yeah Right feeling out your friends, you know exactly how to respond to them how how they interact how you've had conversations with them

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If it's somebody that you know attends Stanley's Church regularly just simply say so Did you did you visit

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North Point this past Sunday? What did Andy Stanley teach about and see if there are certain points that they bring up that that you know?

35:18

You might find them saying something. You're like, okay. I know how to respond to that Well, what what does the Bible say about that and then responding with Scripture going to the

35:27

Scriptures? Like with responding to the modalist the more of the Word of God that you have in your heart

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The more that's going to dominate the conversation or the wisdom of God will help to guide you through the conversation

35:40

Then having to rely on your own words or wit. Mm -hmm And so passages that talk about, you know

35:46

Reliance and understanding the Old Testament the importance of the Old Testament. I say New Testament Importance of the

35:53

Old Testament. No, you said old test. I did say Old Testament Okay the Sermon on the Mount Get real get real steady with that when

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Matthew chapters 5 6 and 7 because Jesus makes a ton of References back to the Old Testament In fact get yourself a reference

36:07

Bible and most study Bibles like if you use the ESV study Bible That's what I have open in front of me here even in the columns

36:14

It's got a whole list of references like cross References or if Jesus is making a reference back to an

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Old Testament passage, right? It will put that in the cross references. So pay attention to that How often is

36:26

Jesus saying something that comes from the Old Testament, right? You know G often

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Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount said that he did not come to abolish the law

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But to fulfill it to fulfill the law and the prophets Andy Stanley will say that But the way that he teaches it's really as though Christ abolished the law

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So he doesn't true He doesn't understand what it means when Jesus says that I have fulfilled

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I have come to fulfill the law and the prophets So again, look at those passages where Christ will make a reference back to an

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Old Testament passage and that Will help you I think in your conversations of understanding how all of this is important How all of the scripture is relevant and all of it is

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God breathed coming once again to second Chim is second Timothy That's a guy on Twitter in it.

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Yep. First Timothy. Yep Second Timothy chapter 3 verse 16 all Scripture is breathed out by God and as I pointed out earlier this week

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Paul is making a reference to mostly the Old Testament because we didn't have a

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New Testament canon yet Yes, there were certain letters that were written by the Apostles that had been collected in many of the churches and yes

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They are considered scripture when you look at Peter's reference in 2nd Peter 3 16

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He equates Paul's letters with the rest of the scriptures including the Old Testament as Paul is speaking to Timothy here when he says all scripture

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He's talking about mostly the Old Testament right exactly the Old Testament canon that we have today right all scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching for reproof for correction and for training in Righteousness that the man of God may be complete

38:14

Equipped for every good work You cut out the Old Testament or you say to somebody to unhitch yourself from the

38:21

Old Testament and you've unhitched them from two -thirds Of the Word of God to help equip them for every good work

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How can they be complete when two -thirds of the Word of God has been removed from their canon?

38:35

And like I said, I think what made this point last week It's not that Andy Stanley is saying only carry around Gideon New Testaments with you from now on Right and don't consider the

38:45

Old Testament because like I said Stanley has taught from the Old Testament. He has done that before It's just that his wording and the way that he explains these things is

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Extremely problematic and it is very much rooted in liberal theology

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Whether or not Stanley would regard himself as a liberal theologian. That is exactly what has affected his doctrine

39:07

So then the next part of this question from Brett was if I could recommend any

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Books to help him understand liberal theology Well, I will tell you that I have not read any recent books on the subject.

39:19

I've read a ton of articles Al Mohler has taught about this and written about it extensively and so has

39:27

David Prince and so look up Both of those guys articles by both of those guys on liberal theology and you'll find something

39:34

Kevin de Young wrote an article back in September about Theological liberalism and most of the quotes that he drew from Were from a book entitled the making of American liberal theology imagining progressive religion

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By Gary Dorian, I've read some of this book, but not a lot of it because it's actually three volumes

39:59

So I have read some of this but but check out a book called once again the making of American liberal theology

40:09

Imagining progressive religion by Gary Dorian and just to highlight some of the points that de

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Young made in his article Entitled seven characteristics of liberal theology number one.

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So here's the first characteristic of liberal theology True religion is not based on external authority

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That's a characteristic of liberal theology. What would be our external authority? It would be

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God and his word So that's that's objective truth Subjective truth means it comes from yourself.

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So in liberal theology, they would rely on a subjective authority not an objective authority point number two or characteristic number two

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Christianity is a movement of social reconstruction Meaning that it's just about improving society

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Okay, rather than redeeming the person to God who was fallen because of his sinfulness.

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I could see that a person is not reconciled to God by any work of their own but only by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ Stanley has taught a

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Social gospel before and actually the very first article I ever wrote on Andy Stanley was on a sermon that he delivered that was just all about Improving society like that was the responsibility of the

41:28

Christian So number three a number three characteristic or the third characteristic Christianity must be credible and relevant

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And that's the big one that Stanley falls into over and over again. He's trying to make

41:40

Christianity relevant to his hearers It's already relevant. Yeah, the fourth characteristic truth can only be known through changing symbols and forms

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So in other words the Christianity that applied to the Protestant Reformers 500 years ago is not the

41:56

Christianity of today And it needs to be updated and modernized for right for today's audience for a 21st century audience characteristic number five theological controversy is about language

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Not about truth and that's another thing that Stanley will get into is redefining terms

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The term and once again means something different to us today than it meant so many years ago

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That was during a wreck a Greco -Roman period and Paul is using Greco -Roman language to appeal to the listeners of that time

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So anyway, that's that's another characteristic of liberal theology Number six the historical accuracies of biblical facts and events are not crucial

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So long as we meet Jesus in the pages of Scripture, and that is a huge Talking point for Andy Stanley.

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Well, all you need to know is Jesus Who rose from the dead that's all you need to know you don't need to worry about whether or not there's a six -day creation or whether or not there was

42:57

Noah's Ark or whether or Not Elijah called down fire from heaven if those things are difficult for you to believe don't worry about that All you need to know is that Jesus rose from the dead and if you can believe that that's what's important.

43:11

Okay, okay Problem with that is that Jesus Explicitly said in Luke chapter 16 if they don't believe

43:18

Moses in the prophets Neither will they believe if someone should rise from the dead right boom

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So that blows that Characteristic of liberal theology out of the water and here's the seventh characteristic.

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The true religion is the way of Christ Not any particular doctrines about Christ So you don't have to believe that Jesus is

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God that you believe that he was born of the Virgin Mary that You believe that he lived a holy life as our substitute because we could not live in perfection

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You don't have to believe any of those things. You just need to believe what Jesus stood for and what he represented and That's what's most important.

44:03

Yeah a going An ongoing theme that I am seeing here is that basically you don't have to believe that the

44:10

Bible is true That's really it, right? That's that's liberal theology, okay

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And Stanley will say things like he believes that scripture is inerrant he will say that But the way that he teaches does not display that he believes it

44:29

Very it's very evident that he doesn't believe scripture is inerrant He certainly doesn't believe that it's sufficient right?

44:35

And so that's a big problem Yeah, so it's kind of like we're in an era right now where there you'll encounter a lot of teachers saying that they believe the

44:44

Bible It's an error Bible study, but it just wasn't enough for me. So right. Yeah, I had to start my own thing

44:50

I'm reading the Bible praying. It just wasn't enough. Yeah, so I needed this other thing. No All of this comes from liberal theology and a person does not have to ascribe to liberal theology

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For you to realize that they're being influenced by it We should put it that way so because Stanley's not gonna say his stand up and say

45:06

I'm a liberal theologian But he is a liberal theologian The very same things that he does in the way that he teaches is exactly what everybody in liberal theology is doing

45:15

So I hope that it by reading that book or looking that up or you can look up the article from Kevin Young because he quotes heavily from Dorian in that article seven characteristics of liberal theology

45:26

And again, the book that you're looking for is the making of American liberal theology imagining progressive religion by Gary Dorian And he is considered to be the foremost expert on Liberal theology, that's awesome.

45:39

So thank you for your question Brett I would like to pray for you and also for our other question question ears

45:48

Questionnaires not a questionnaire because we fill out a questionnaire. Yeah quick question

45:54

The other people who have asked us questions today Let's pray That's right.

46:00

There you go And you can even send your email to when we understand the text at gmail .com we'll be back again next week as I continue the study of 2nd

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Timothy on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday and then we're jumping into Ezra in our

46:14

Old Testament third Old Testament Thursday study. That's what it was. I was gonna say. All right, let's pray our

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Lord God We thank you for this time together, and I thank you for this medium that we have to be able to reach out with the

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Word of God through podcasts through videos and I pray that people are edified by the

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Word of God wherever that they can receive it whether it's through great teachers like RC Sproul or John MacArthur or Al Mohler and or I Appreciate that there are people that would even want to listen to when we understand the text you are using this as the

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Word of God is being proclaimed to change hearts and Grow your people in a knowledge and an understanding of the gospel and I pray that we would continue to be faithful to your word

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Not about us but advancing the Word of Christ. I pray for Kevin as he is

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Reaching out to folks He talked about some people that he was Talking to online in the email that he sent me and I pray that you would give him a spirit of gentleness and knowing how to respond to Others with the

47:22

Word of God not like Steven Anderson But and and in that on that note

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I would like to pray for Steven Anderson That this man would repent that his heart would be softened by the Holy Spirit and he would realize

47:34

The way that he's been teaching at least the entire time that I've known his name has not been

47:39

Godly and it has not been in a spirit of gentleness. He is heretical at times in some of the doctrines that he will attack and so I pray that you would truly give him your spirit that He may know gentleness and he may know the truth about Christ According to your word.

47:58

I pray also for Simeon in South Africa, and I pray that as he is Encountering these folks who are modalists that he would know how to respond with the scriptures fill him up with Good doctrinal knowledge that he may lead a person in the truth of who

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Christ is and who the father is According to the Spirit and we pray also for Brett as he is reaching out to his friends who have been ensnared by Andy Stanley's teaching give him a spirit of wisdom as well in how he responds in these situations

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And we pray for Stanley that he would repent and that People would become wise to the tactics that he uses.

48:40

He will use buzzwords to get people's attention But what he is teaching them is actually contrary to Orthodox Christianity So convict his heart and protect those who may otherwise be led astray by this false teaching of his

48:53

Thank you for your truth. We all have been following in false teaching at some point in our lives

48:59

But it is by the declaration of the gospel that we've repented from that false teaching and come to know the truth

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According to your word so lead us and guide us in this and in those places God where we know that we lack belief

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Help our unbelief and make us more and more like Christ building us up in the knowledge of you

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And we pray these things in Jesus name. Amen. Amen I Don't even remember somebody's been messing with that Couldn't possibly been one of our children.

50:37

Oh, no For They need to unhook our children are angels

50:49

Angels, that is a viper in a diaper They were born

50:56

Okay, hang on I gotta I gotta unplug your mic and tighten this

51:07

Might be going the wrong way Righty tighty lefty loosey. There we go Yeah, so they were probably spinning the mic around and that's why it's about to fall off of this thing

51:20

We mean, where was I probably over there playing hangman and tissue Bible hangman

51:29

That tell you the very first thing I put on the board I'll tell you how that went So I just I just put like the blank spaces a little hangman thing

51:38

You know the the gallows right? And so I said, okay a category to help you out. The category is