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Father, thank you for this time this morning. Thank you for this change in weather for the reminder That you are sovereign over all things that whatever transpires whether it be rain or sleet or snow or Sunshine and warmth you are still sovereign and we thank you and praise you father.
We thank you that every day your Grace is new to us your sovereign grace and father as we look to This difficult topic of the Trinity, I pray that you would Bless us strengthen us help us to remember the things that we've learned cause us to to think about these things and to be Mindful even as we read your word about the import of them and how you have Taught men throughout the centuries and you still are teaching us today Through your word and by your spirit and we praise you and thank you in Jesus name.
Amen. Well, does anybody not have a quiz? Just in case we've been doing this review quiz and we have a few new folks. Anybody else anyone. Brian I have some and you know what I also Want to give Dallas one of these.
Just a special a double blessing as it were double consubstantiality handout. Because everybody needs one of these. Well, you don't really need one, but you know. Okay, so we left off on number 20. So we're going to start with 21 that makes sense.
Nice easy, I like to make them easy true or false number 21. The scene surrounding the baptism of Jesus refutes the doctrine of the Trinity. Let me just paint that picture for you for a moment. We have Jesus being baptized by John the Baptist.
The Holy Spirit descending like a dove and the Father's voice saying this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. So you have the Father in heaven? Jesus on the earth and you have the Holy Spirit descending like a dove.
That refutes the doctrine of the Trinity, correct? Yeah, it's false but When I was a non-trinitarian Mormon, that's what we used to say that obviously refutes the doctrine of the Trinity. That's not true, but it seemed true to us and to my buddy the Jehovah Witness on the bus when we used to joust with the Trinitarians there, okay.
Let's see what Barrett says. He says unlike all the nations around us Nations that believe in many gods. Oh, this is from Zipporah the Fictional Hebrew female that he created here says unlike all the nations around us Nations that believe in many gods we believe in one God.
So how can John be right when the heavens open the divine voice itself pronounced its blessing on one who is in the words? Of Isaiah the Lord. Are there two Lords now and not just two but three for John said a dove descended on Jesus some say this is the Spirit.
John swore it must be. Well, let's look at that text John 3 or I'm sorry Matthew 3 verses 16 and 17. Matthew 3 verses 16 and 17 and when Jesus was baptized Immediately he went up from the water and behold and by the way, there's a good tip for baptism, right?
Don't lollygag in the water get up immediately. Okay, that has nothing to do with it. He went up from the water and behold the heavens were open to him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him and Behold a voice from heaven said this is my beloved Son with whom I am well pleased.
So again Father in heaven Holy Spirit descending Jesus there. Does that disprove the Trinity? No, even if we take Zipporah's voice and we say well, you know what? Here's the point. The point is God is in heaven God in the flesh is being baptized and God the Spirit is descending like a dove.
Does that disprove? The Trinity. Absolutely not. God the Father is located in heaven true or false true. Is that the only place God the Father is? No. He's everywhere. God the Holy Spirit can take the form of a dove and descend and that's all he is.
Well, no, it was true up until you said and that's all he is. We need to remind ourselves that each person of the Trinity is omnipresent Omniscient they're everywhere. They know everything there is. You know one God three persons and they all share the same essence same attributes, etc.
Okay, number 22. Because there were no Systemic theologies in the early church some Christians did not believe in the Trinity. How can you say false? Okay, because if any part of the question is false.
Then the whole question is false. So because there were no system system Systemic why did I put systemic instead of systematic? I don't know but I'm fired. Some Some Christians that can you be a Christian and not believe in the Trinity?
Let's get down to basics. Can you be a Christian and not believe in the Trinity? I see a head shake. That's almost like a no. I heard Josh say no. Why not Josh? Okay, how can you disagree with the nature of God and then say well I believe in that God.
It's a good point but. Well, let me ask you this. From the moment you believed were you instantly a systematic theologian who understood the Trinity. Mark was but most of us. Most of us are not so if I say to you I think this person might be saved and you go up and you say can you explain the Trinity to me?
And the person says no. I cannot. Does that mean right away you say no that person's not saved. I see that hand that's really a good point. This woman has a future. She might marry a pastor someday. Pretty sharp theologian in her own, right?
It's the difference between Understanding it and denying it. So if you're a theologian Let's attempt to wax eloquent about that a little bit. If I teach you if you're sitting in this class today, and you walk out and say, you know what I deny the Trinity I've either one of two things is true.
Either. I've done a really poor job explaining the Trinity or. You're not a believer. Okay on the other hand If you've heard the gospel. And you know, here's the thing just a little side thing. How many times do you hear the gospel before you get saved and I dare say that probably none of us really know.
Why? Because because we like little stoppers in our ears and the gospels preached to us. Do we hear it? No, it's just so much background noise. Maybe you do maybe you evaluate and maybe you reject it until one day the Holy Spirit Afflicts you conflicts you whatever, you know causes you to be born again.
But for the most part, I think especially for me, I would have literally no idea I can think of a few times. I heard the gospel before I believe but I don't know how many times. I probably heard it hundreds of times before that.
But I think the key is exactly what Janet said which is this if I Understand the Trinity if I understand the Trinitarian teaching and then I deny it. Well, then there's reason there's vast reason to think that that person is not a Christian because they.
They're fundamentally as josh said rejecting the nature of who god is. Okay 23 true or false. What the trinity does in time reflects the eternal relations of the trinity. What the trinity does in time in other words?
How the triune god acts? In creation. Reflects the eternal relations of the trinity. Barrett says this. The gospel tells us something about who this triune god is. In and of himself apart from creation and salvation.
The deeper we go into the mystery of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The more we discover that the mission of the son in salvation history. The fact that he is sent by the father reflects his eternal origin from the father in eternity.
This pattern applies to the whole trinity the father sending the son. The father and son giving the spirit. These missions are not arbitrary but reflect something intrinsic about god's triunity. The father sends his son in the world because it is a son who is eternally begotten or generated.
And likewise the father and the son give the spirit who descends to the world because. The father and the son eternally breathe out or spirate. The spirits apart from the world. So what we see in scripture.
Like if we went to ephesians chapter one before the world began God the father. Chose some to be in christ. Why so that they could be? Purified washed cleaned perfect. And the holy spirit in time. Is their seal meaning?
He causes them to be born again. He dwells in them. He stays with them until the day of redemption. These things are reflections of their eternal relationship this relationship of the trinity that Before the world began before anything existed this relationship of the trinity that existed.
Thoughts questions concerns. Comments heresies. We would hear heresies. Okay I'd just like to throw out the opportunity for somebody to say, you know what I'd like to try a fresh heresy this morning. Um number 24 true or false the new testament corrects the teaching of the old testament so that we can understand the trinity.
I I just like the question though. Now i'm going to unfire myself just based on that question alone. I really like that one. The new testament corrects the teaching of the old testament so that we can understand the trinity.
That's false Barrett says rather than thinking as many skeptics do that the trinity is an invention the new testament correcting the monotheism of the old testament we should instead think that the This is the the new testament is the coming of the trinity into full view.
Lit up and radiant and effulgence of triune revelation right before our eyes. Warfield said the mystery of the trinity is not revealed In the old testament, but the mystery of the trinity underlies the old testament revelation.
And here and there almost comes into view. In other words, he says there are glimpses of the trinity in the old testament. And I think that's important and I pointed out as i've taught through acts when peter Is typically in the early stages of acts the preacher and when he's preaching the gospel when he presents jesus christ as the son of god, in fact just thinking about when they Healed the man outside the temple and then went in to the temple john and peter did.
He didn't have to explain to this jewish audience. That jesus was god. And god the father was god. And that he didn't have to reconcile those two things. And why do you suppose that is? Keeping in mind.
They had a jewish audience who would say hero israel. The lord our god is one right the shema deuteronomy 6 4. Why wouldn't they have to reconcile? How can you present this new god jonathan? It wasn't new it was It it kind of if we can put it this way.
They heard it and and they said to themselves. This isn't a violation of deuteronomy 6 for those who believed. This is basically the fulfillment of it. Now. We understand the true nature of god that he's father son.
And spirit jonathan. Yeah, they had an oral tradition too. I mean, you know the teaching of scripture. I mean just think I mean it's hard for us to imagine A time, you know before the internet, but there was such a time.
It's hard for us to imagine a time before television, but there was such a time it's hard for us to imagine time before radio or newspaper or books. But that time existed. And what do you suppose they did for?
You know entertainment, you know, we might think well, I I know exactly what they did. They ran around town looking for the latest gossip. Or maybe they tried out all the new coffee shops or maybe. They sat around and listened as grandpa said you know, uh.
You know not me, but my grandfather. Walked and talked in the garden with god. What do you mean he walked with him? Isn't god just a spirit? Well he took on a body or he had a the appearance of having a body.
And so all these things as they talked about him or even as they would talk maybe about Samson and how the holy spirit rushed upon him and all these things may have seemed a little mysterious in the old testament.
Because there was no cohesive Framework for it. And then you know peter John others philip come along and explain the gospel explain who jesus is. And the pieces like in a jigsaw puzzle since we've been our house has been filled with jigsaw puzzles lately you know, they had the the outer frame of this puzzle and then as The the apostle started teaching about this triune god about why jesus is deity.
The pieces all started to snap into place and they understood it. So thank you for that illustration. Mr. Cooley. She's like you're welcome. All right number 25. What are some of the ways the old testament presents the trinity?
Some of the ways the old testament presents the trinity. In other words if we're really studying the old testament are there hints. And we've already said that there are what would be some of the hints of the trinity in the old testament.
Okay, definitely a christophany there. Um, I think there are a multitude of christophanies. In the christophany being a pre-incarnate appearance of the lord jesus christ. Where there's a person there who is suddenly talked about as if he's god because he is god even when Samson's parents are visited by the angel of the lord and they eventually figure out this is god and you know.
The things that go on there. Yeah. Okay, so I have in there. Uh the angel of the lord. I mean we could add, you know various christophanies. Yes other other ideas.
Jonathan okay. Yep, the lord said to my lord.
Yes. Okay, so the plural plural form. Elohim. You know, uh some of the list some of the things that he lists here distinction between names elohim and yahweh um wisdom personified in job 28 12 to 27 or proverbs 8 words of god also personified ascribed divine attributes the spirit of god.
God speaks of himself in the plural multiple divine names or persons named three persons named. Those kind of things. So in other words again, you know, I think if if we just I think the jigsaw puzzle idea is good because you know, they would have different pieces.
Maybe separated by color and then you know, somebody comes along and says well, this is how you put the puzzle together and it made sense. Other thoughts. Yes mark. Okay, the suffering servants that whole section of isaiah from 42 to 61.
I think it is. Okay, good. Number 26. What is the difference between the ontological trinity and the economic trinity? This is something we talk about quite a bit. I don't think we can stress it quite enough.
What does it mean? What's ontological trinity versus economic trinity. Ontological is? Being. Okay, who god is in his essence? And then economic trinity is. How he acts. Okay, so who he is and what he does.
He says let's distinguish between the imminent or ontological trinity and the economic trinity. The imminent trinity or ontological trinity refers to who our god is in eternity apart from the created order sometimes the Imminent trinity is also called the ontological trinity.
That's why I said that Remember ontology refers to the study of being in this case god's being that is his essence or nature. To refer to the imminent trinity then is to refer to who the triune god is.
Internally according to himself and in and of himself apart from creation. The economic trinity however refers to how this triune god acts toward the created order. Economic describes the triune god's external operations in creation providence and redemption.
So again, if we think about if we just Generally said this There's some overlap, but if we typically think about it this way the father chooses the son does what? We could say redeems right and then the holy spirit Seals he does a lot of things right?
I mean we could argue about who sanctifies because I think There's plenty of room for for that, but I and like I said, there is some Overlap, but I think yeah, it's fair to say the holy spirit sanctifies.
The holy spirit causes us to be born again, you know those kind of things. Um, he gives as example because it is the father who. Oh. Well, actually that's the next question, but it's very similar to this one.
We dare not think who this triune god is. In and of himself can be reduced to his external actions in history. Actions that may be even temporary if we do we may impose human limitations or characteristics on god himself in other words that they don't Neatly just fit into specific roles.
There is some overlap, but let's go to 27 because I think this will help to understanding who god is. Helps us to understand what he does. Understanding who god is helps us to understand what he does.
Okay understanding What god does helps us understand who he is. I'm not really sure how that's different, but go ahead and explain it. Okay. Okay, so I I learned some things about who god is by general revelation, but I need specific revelation to tell me More about him to to distinguish between the persons.
I think there's a lot of truth in that. Okay, it is true. The false is retracted and Barrett says there may be wisdom in using a far more specific vocabulary like relations and missions. Remember the imminent trinity or the ontological trinity who god is in and of himself.
He's the one god who is distinguished as three persons by the eternal relations of origin alone. And again, what's the eternal relations of origin? The father is unbegotten. The son is. If the father is unbegotten the son is Eternally begotten and the holy spirit is Eternally spirated.
Okay. These eternal relations of origin and these relations alone Explain the internal and eternal ordering or processions of the trinity. So we have paternity. The father alone is father, right? Filiation the son is only the son and Spiration the spirit is.
The spirit he's unique. But they also explain the external and temporal relations of the trinity. For example, it is because the father begets his son in eternity that it is fitting for the father to send his son.
To become incarnate in history now, there was some debate in my email. You know someone said well couldn't. Couldn't the father Have sent the son. And the son Acquiesced to the sending. Well, absolutely, but that's not the point of the email which was the email was Against ess the eternal subordination of the sun which basically says that before they were Before anything else existed.
There was a hierarchy in The trinity and we've talked about the problems with the hierarchy view of the trinity. That is to say if you ultimately believe that the father has full authority and the son and the spirit are functionally Subordinate and must kind of obey the father then.
What do you have? Do you have a trinity or do you have a society of three different? Gods and I think the answer is the latter one, you know where there's a structure and an order to it um Begetting and spirating are eternal and internal Occurring within the triune god before all ages and this is important and I won't spend too much time on it.
But just think about this. You know, when did the sun become the sun? He's always been the sun. And so for us, you know that that's that's a conundrum and i'm not here to Bash john macarthur. I'm, just here to relate something, you know for years.
Some of you will know this some of you won't for years. He held on to a view called Incarnational sonship you ever heard of it? It's the view where the son jesus became the son. When he was born. Right before that he was god.
But he was not the son and for for years the uh the fundamentalists were after him because that was. That was bad teaching. And so I remember one sunday morning. Because we were at grace community church then and I I didn't really Know too much about this, but I remember listening one sunday morning.
Uh, I think I believe john was in uh I want to say luke. And all of a sudden he said open your bibles to hebrews chapter one and so we go to hebrews chapter one and he talks about how jesus is eternally the son and he went on and everything like that and.
And so I wrote my pastor that morning or that afternoon when we got home and I said did john just change his view? And he said I don't know i'll have to get back to you. And then he wrote back and he said yes, in fact he did he no longer believes in incarnational sonship and I go, okay.
Good to know. But that's the idea because it is hard for us to wrap our heads around the idea of Eternal sonship because we think of ourselves I think to ourselves in human terms, you know, when does our son become our son?
Well at at the most we would say when what? He is conceived right. Um and for a lot of people they'd say well, it's the moment of birth or whatever, you know I mean before that we might have a relationship with him, but it doesn't really feel like a son, but whatever.
That's kind of beyond the scope of it. We want to impose our understanding of sonship on him and that's Not not correct. He's eternally begotten. Um, he says here, uh, well actually we can go to the next uh, Quiz question 28 true or false.
Yes I see that hand. I just yeah, we we could definitely have those moments of epiphany. I can give you another one uh, because this. Although I would say and i'm not. Again, i'm not here to knock john.
I I think uh, I mean once you have 75 90 years of uh ministry I don't know what it is. It's a lot of years. But you know there was another one he was I and these these moments kind of stick in your mind because you just think wow, you know second corinthians 5 verses 14 and 17.
And I remember remember this one because I heard it live and then I I went and Borrowed the tape we they you used to have to borrow tapes. I went to the book Uh, the the tape shack and borrowed the tape and all that and second corinthians 5 verses 14 and 17 tape number three.
So it was sermon number three in the series and John changed his view on the atonement, you know talking about change and he went from uh sufficient for all meaning it Christ's death could have saved everyone and efficient only for the elect meaning uh It it was.
It had sufficient. Uh, what's the word i'm looking for? Well, you could say potency but I value I guess, you know to save every person who'd ever been born. You know if there were people on every planet in the galaxy, there was enough in Christ's death to save everyone because he's infinite.
He's god. He said but it was efficient effective only for the ones that the father chose. But when he got second corinthians 14 Or fifth five. What's the what's the verse. Yeah, 14 to 17 of second. In fact, let's just kind of go there and he said Uh, this is obviously paul writing and he says, uh.
Yeah, i'm sure it's second corinthians 5 verses 14 to 17. And when you hear it, you'll go okay, I don't even know what what john's on here, but uh. He says Paul says In fact if I can see the problem with this is the numbers are just a little bit there it is.
For the love of god controls us because we have concluded this. That one has died for all so there you go. Wait a minute. You're thinking Jesus died for everybody and this is why he chose that verse. Therefore all have died and he died for all again, you know this universal aspect of things.
That those who live might no longer live for themselves. But for him who for their sake died and was raised and so what he did was. He said well, wait a minute. If he died for all There's a problem because why if he died for the sins of everyone who was ever born.
Then why aren't they all saved. And the answer he says is here that those who live in other words those who have spiritual eternal life Might no longer live for themselves. But for him who for their sake died and was raised and there's the key.
Who for their sake died and was raised? Well, if he died for their sake if he died to save them and was raised then why aren't they? Saved. And the ultimate reason is because. What? What's that? He didn't die for them.
It probably is the John Owen thing and maybe John MacArthur was reading John Owen and said, you know what John Owen's right? And I'm wrong because You know John Owen is usually right so anyway. You know all that to say that people can change their views and uh, you know when you're in ministry as long as John Has been you know, hopefully you you're more in the Direction of getting things right as time goes on.
Um, and I think he in in those instances certainly is. Okay, so where was I before I rudely interrupted myself uh Number 28 true or false there was never a time When the father did not have his word. And that's true and and you know, it's In the beginning was the word and the word was With god.
And so when is in the beginning and we tend to think that in the beginning means Time in the beginning of time. Well, is that correct? There's a timelessness to john one and and and he Talks about that here.
Barrett does before all ages. There was god and nothing else before the cosmos existed. There was god in him alone. Except alone may sound as if he were lonely. He was not. For in the beginning says john was the word John's way of returning or of referring to the son.
Co-eternal this word was with god co-equal. This word was god. It's hard to more closely identify the word with god than this. He was co-equal with god as the one who was god himself. Never was there a time when the father was without his word.
Well, why would that be why was there never a time when the father was without the word or the son? Okay, because then jesus wouldn't be eternal and the father would not be eternally a father. He says Never was there a time when the father did not beget his word.
It's that eternal begetting. It's that thing that boggles our mind because when we think of begetting we think of In time, it's a one-time deal and he's. You know steve was begotten of dean and you know, etc, etc.
If there were a time Then in no way could john say the word the son was both with god and was god. In john's mind the word the son is both distinct from god the father. The word was with god and the and one with god himself.
The word was god. So there's no way to divide that up. There was never a time when the father did not have the son. And the son was not being begotten of the father. Questions concerns comments heresies.
I'm, always looking for you know, random heresies that we can write down and go that's new. That's no I I think that's really excellent. Um, you know the way I like to Talk about it is you know our problem with time.
Is that we think of it of course because we're in time we think of it as all consuming. You know, there was a point Where it began. There may be a point where it ends and we exist in that continuum there.
But like you said God is outside of that and it's hard for us to you know, just even wrap our heads around that. And so the way I like to explain it is this that for god you know if the the bible says that What is it about time that to god a thousand years is as a day and the day is as a thousand years or what.
Is that close? What does that mean? What it means is time is ultimately irrelevant to god. God is so beyond time because time is what it's a creation so the way we if we if we think about it rightly time is more of a A destination or a place and that's again.
That's hard for us to accept. But it basically if we understand this You know is god learning as time goes on. That's a heresy and that's not a new one. It's a rather old one, but that would be the god say of mormonism or of open theism.
Which we don't need to explain right now. But you know god's just like us like that pagan song that came out 30 years ago. What if god was one of us bad news? Because he's. He's going to be like allah, you know capricious.
He's going to be like steve and we're all in big trouble. Instead we have a god who this is time. And he it's all laid out in front of him and it's all going on simultaneously. So when I say time is irrelevant to god because it doesn't really.
It's only relevant to him as we as it regards us or As jesus the god man when he comes into creation. He actually steps into time and Goes into the timeline. And at the same time is outside of the timeline.
You know, there's there's the mystery Of jesus christ. How is it that he enters into the world and yet remains outside of it because he's both god and man. Charlie. No, we we we can't really grasp it, you know, I was just thinking as you were talking Because my mind wanders but I was thinking about the hymn that says And time shall be no more.
And i'm like Hmm I I don't know right? I mean Because we know that we won't have days and nights anymore and because christ christ will be our light in heaven, but it's kind of mind-boggling to just, you know, think about and you know at a place where the law of thermo.
What did you say? Uh, yeah, whatever that is second law of thermo, you know that the fact that things just tend to deteriorate. You know, uh my shoulders my knees my back everything else. What won't happen anymore.
You know, how glorious is that? Right. But the these things this this kind of eternality to god is mind-boggling, you know, I used to say to the kids they'd say you'll never. Or you always and what would I say to the kids?
I'd go, you know when they were kids i'd say Never is never is a long time and always is a long time, right? So is eternity. It's a very long time. It's an unimaginable amount of time because it really is.
But our thoughts, you know if luther said to erasmus, all right, he said your thoughts of god are Too human and I think that's that's what we all fall into right? We want god to be more like us. So we imagine Him to be more like us that god Is experiencing things the way that we are?
Not really. No. Which is one of the reasons what that we can have confidence in him because it's not like It just imagine. And we'll probably have to close here, but just imagine a god who experiences time the way that we do and that's all he does right.
So he'd be like he could have his arm around me during my trials and say boy steve, I hope we get through this. The good news is if we just think about romans 8 28 and what it really tells us. Is that god has all the time laid out.
And he he's watching steve, but he's going you know I plan this all out. I know how this goes. I know this is for your good. Even if you don't feel like that right now. Even if it doesn't seem good to you.
He doesn't have to go. Oh steve, you know. We'll get through this together. He could say steve. Trust me. Everything I do Is for my glory and for your good? I've said it and I will do it. You know what joni I like that and whoever wrote this question i'm going to promote him so.
Well, I think we we probably need to close but uh any last questions. Okay, let's pray father in heaven. What what a comfort it is to think about You about a god who Has always existed will always exist Has ordained and purposed and planned everything.
And just says to us his creatures trust me. Not only do I know what i'm doing. I know what I have planned. I know what i've done. My character is such that I cannot lie. I will not lie. I will never fail.
That is a god whom we can serve and trust and honor and obey and praise. Father teach us to to just Bathe in the truths of scripture and rejoice in all that you have revealed to us about yourself father, we look forward to A time where there is no time where we will just learn more and more and more about you and praise you all the more.
In jesus name. Amen.