Real Talk with Big John Christmas with Rob Canipe

He says we're alive, Rob. So I usually say welcome back to more real talk with Big John, but I feel like it's been so long since I've had a real talk that I shouldn't be able to say that. We're going to be discussing the Christmas season and I have a guest, Brother Rob Conight.

And if you've watched any of the laborers podcast that we've had, you'll recognize him for sure. And he's been kind enough to step on here and get involved with the crazy that comes with absolutely zero preparation.

Is that right, Rob?

I mean, you got it. You got that right.

So it's like any other time with with real talk, it's supposed to be abstract thoughts or whatever that aren't necessarily fit for the pulpit. But I'm going to slide over to Facebook to make it shareable.

And I'm going to ask Brother Rob to to share a little bit about who you are, what your ministry looks like. And anything that's on your heart concerning concerning the ministries that are near and dear to you.

So, yeah, I am one of three elders slash pastors, you know, whatever you want to call it. The name is interchangeable. Pastor is what most people are familiar with. But of course, the term elder is also biblical.

And a lot of people are going to that now. But one of three elders slash pastors at First Baptist Church, Newton. I'm two of the lay elders there. And we have one that's the that's what they would call the lead lead teaching elder teaching pastor.

And in our. In our understanding, we're we're. All equal, but but we do, doesn't anyone that has the main teaching role every Sunday, but we all have to meet the qualifications for pastor to to have that role as as elder.

So I'm one of three at First Baptist Church, Newton, about 20. Right before COVID early 2020, I started a podcast or we were trying to decide if it's a podcast. We don't know the name of it, but we think video and audio can be called podcast.

But I started in 2020 because I started seeing all this stuff on Facebook. You scroll through the different groups or you scroll through whatever and you see these people selling their wares on Facebook.

They're doing it live. And I'm like, you know, if they can get on these groups and sell their wares, their jewelry, their makeup, their clothes, whatever they're selling, I'm like. I need to get this out, this that I have inside of me, I need to get it out.

And here's here's a platform. Here's today's marketplace. It's Facebook, it's social media. And why not get on here and try to get in these groups, at least on my my personal Facebook page and try to get out the gospel, get out God's word, preach Jesus, talk about Jesus.

And and that's how I started and started out slow with with just, you know, my laptop taking some time out here and there to to do it. And then the Lord has provided brothers in Christ. I know you and I met Big John because one of our brothers, Brandon.

Yes, right. He he put together a prayer time on Saturday morning. He and I got connected through social media, through the Internet, from different denominations. But we met each other through social media, doing my thing.

He's doing his thing. And we met each other. I even had him on when I went to his church and had a prayer time. At that time, I was going around to different churches and I was praying for those churches.

And I came to his church, met him out there, his church with his daughter, prayed for his church and formed a relationship. And he met me to his his special prayer time that he had on Saturday morning.

He gathered those that would come and we just we prayed together on Saturday mornings, and that's how I met you. We got connected. And I was like, hey, brother, you want to hop on here and do this thing with me?

So and John, you started your podcast and we got together with other podcasters, other pastors, and and we formed this network that we work together and do our own podcast together on Thursday nights called The Labor Podcast.

And sure enough, how did that develop a conference? We did our first one this year, last April, and we plan to do another one next April, April, 2024. The last weekend in April is going to be a referendum at a Baptist church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

And we would love to see each of you there. You don't have to be Baptist. You don't have to be Church of God. You don't have to be Presbyterian. You can be whatever you want to be. But we would love to come.

I would love for you to come and fellowship with us and enjoy the preaching that's going to be there and the singing and just the good time we're going to have in the Lord. It's not far from Pigeon Ford.

It's not far from Gatlinburg. And the big draw, it is not far from Bucky's where you can get that fantastic beef jerky that you.

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

But that's where we are now. The Lord has brought some brothers together, and I look forward to the future and what the Lord has in store for us and being a part of his kingdom and what he's doing with us.

It's good. It's going to be it'll be great. It's going to be amazing.

I agree. I agree. The. There's a lot of ministries that Brother Rob's in and and we don't I don't I don't get out to all the things, but you're a very busy man, and I appreciate you taking some of the time to come out here.

And when I when I said things that we talk about on here aren't necessarily pulpit appropriate, I don't obviously I don't mean there's going to be inappropriate material, but there's some things that we discuss that really the pulpit's too special the place for.

Does that make sense? The the we need to have respect for that desk, and we're behind the pulpit. We need to make sure that we're discussing things that are just worthy of the desk. I don't know how else to put it other than that.

Some of the things that we've discussed on here or I've discussed on here are as silly as, you know, what Rick and what? What would Clark can't be without Jonathan Kent? Right. You know, stuff like that, all the way to more serious things.

You know, like, why does what is bad things seem to happen regardless of whether you're a good person or not? Right. And then there's the doctrinal debate that goes from there, obviously, that we're not good.

And there's there's this platform, too. You can push things out a little bit more.

That's true. That's true. And you have an opportunity to say things that aren't always welcomed inside your denomination, right? I mean, we we walk in circles that we can't we don't always have the freedom to discuss what's really on our minds or what's really on our hearts and the capacity, because sometimes it might make people stumble and we can't do that.

We can't take our our freedom in Christ or can we take the the drive to get down to the bottom of something and cause people to stumble? And that's something that we don't talk about an awful lot. And this is not at all meant to be discussed tonight.

But on some of mine, you know, there's times that I'm afraid that in a discussion of a of a deep theological truth, there might be some among us in our church circles who who aren't prepared for that kind of depth.

And I think it scares them. Does that make sense to you?

It does. And that's part of the motivation for me starting this and want to work together with you guys is is not to create some platform for ourselves, but to witness and experience so much biblical illiteracy, shallow teaching in my life that.

I want it to be a part of the help to congregations, to church members that needed some some. Some good teaching. Yeah, that. And they oftentimes get on Facebook or they listen to podcasts. And here's a place during the week where they can join in and get a little bit of extra teaching.

Of course, you know, your local church is your number one. That's where you serve. That's where you that's your priority. But here, if you have a chance, social media, Facebook podcast, you can get some additional teaching and go a little bit deeper and maybe learn some things, hopefully.

Sure. And ask questions in a way that you don't have to worry. You know, you can ask Rob a post-millennial question without worrying about being excommunicated from your dispensational church.

All right, as I can't speak for your church, they might.

I just we love you anyway, Rob. So the the thing we want to discuss tonight is Christmas right now. There is a host of things that we can talk about around the Christmas season, but something that's been on my mind.

I even put my coffee in this cup, but at one time I was a subscription to the I had a subscription to the Daily Wire. And there's a man on there who's very famous for debating a liberal teenagers in colleges and things named Ben Shapiro.

He's a he's a Jewish. I'm trying to think what the term you'd call about a political activist, maybe a political news spokesman, what would you call Ben Shapiro?

I'm political talk show host. OK, basically. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think in some degrees, he's he's got the idea or the the thing about him is kind of like a scholar among certain things. Like if you listen to the man, discuss things like. Financial responsibilities of conservatism versus the way people look at finances in a more liberal mindset, he he can give you piles and piles and piles of statistics and facts and and historical complications of liberalism and things like that.

And I think that he's a very, very intelligent man. He speaks too fast for me to understand everything that he says. However, I was watching Ruslan. Do you ever watch Ruslan? You know, I wouldn't think so.

He's charismatic. But he's he's. Well, you just have to know you have to watch the show to kind of get a glimpse of it. But he talks about all different kinds of things. But he's a charismatic post-millennialist.

I thought you'd think that was interesting. I had to send you a link to one of his videos.

Charismatic post-millennialist. Yes, sir. Wow. Yeah.

So anyway, he's he's a really interesting cat. And he had a video and I had the guy's name, but I've done forgot his name now of a famous atheist that I've never heard of. Real famous, right? But it might surprise you.

We don't look up atheists very often on this show. This cat is on his show and are talking about how God must exist from either a cosmological argument and these other kinds of arguments that you hear guys like William Lane Craig discuss all the time.

And obviously, with Ben Shapiro being a practicing Jewish, he practices Jewish faith. He's a believer in God and an unbeliever in Jesus as being God, the son. And it brings up the idea in my mind is to how can so many scholarly Jewish people not see the clear evidences of who Jesus Christ is as being God, the son given the Old Testament?

Now, I'm going to ask you a question that I know the answer to, and I know you're going to give me an answer, but I want you to say it up front. Did we discuss very much of this before we went on? And did we discuss very much of the question I'm fixing to ask?

Oh, no, no, we didn't talk. What I'm saying is, no, is I'm fixing to ask you a question that I didn't tell you I was going to ask you. We. I lost my train of thought. How do you suppose? I know there's there's clearly Old Testament examples of Christ being God, the son.

And there's clearly New Testament examples. But what I was going to ask is, is Christ being God, the son only evidence in the New Testament? And the answer to me is, no, it's obvious he's in the Old Testament.

But I will give you an opportunity to say that. But I kind of train wreck that whole thing live. So forgive me for that. But there's there's implications all throughout. And I want to pull up the scripture.

This is the one that we read all the time.

Bear with me.

No, no, Rob, it says remove, but I don't understand what's not on the screen.

Just did you do it?

Yeah, I did. I did it.

Thank you. Yeah. OK. This is out of Isaiah chapter seven. I'm reading the English Standard Version. I'm in verse ten. Again, the Lord spoke day has asked a sign of the Lord. God let it let's sign Lord your God.

Let it be as deep as she or as high as heaven. And they had says, I will not. I will not ask and I will not put the Lord to the test. And he said, here are the old house of David. Is it a little is it too little for you to worry men that now you want to worry God also?

Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and you shall call his name Emmanuel. He shall eat curds and honey when he when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.

But before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread when this is talking about a prophecy he's talking about, but to focus back on the promise that God gives a has.

And if you want to go ahead and remove that from the screen, Rob, however, you've done that, thank you very much. We see this as being a. An extremely popular saying around this time of year, sons given, and the government will be on the shoulders, we can go into that later.

If you want to.

This this probably will not be as long as a labor's podcast. Whenever what do you suppose a Jewish man? Well, versed in his Old Testament studies does with that scripture in light of in light of us having the knowledge that we we have about Jesus Christ.

I've got to come up with a different term than this. There's a lot of Christians, there's a lot of brothers that we that we respect. There's brothers in our group that hold to the idea of a double fulfillment.

And so a lot of these things where we read passages like this, a lot of them will say, well, this is a double fulfillment. It had a fulfillment here in in their vicinity as far as time goes. But then there's going to be another fulfillment and it's a messianic.

It's talking about Jesus. And we can we can see that, you know, looking back. What do they say is 2020? You can look back and see how Jesus fulfilled all these hundreds of prophecies from the Old Testament.

So how can a how can a Jewish scholar, a Jewish individual read these things and not see Jesus in it? Or what what is their answer? I don't have much experience speaking to a Jewish individual and asking them these questions.

But what experience that I do have, what I got from them is, well, it's talking about this and they're talking about that first fulfillment. And so it's talking about the Jewish nation, it's talking about the nation of Israel, it's talking about when this battle happened and and this took place.

So they have an answer and they have a fulfillment for that prophecy. But it's pointing towards it's talking about Israel, it's talking about the nation of Israel or it's talking about this land. You know, they have an explanation.

And those of us who are believers who hold to a double fulfillment of prophecies, they're going to say, well, it also points to Messiah. Can't you see that? Well, of course, they can't see that. They just see they're stuck on that first fulfillment.

So whenever they talk about a double fulfillment in this text, in what way could could there be a double fulfillment in this text? It doesn't that doesn't point to Jesus Christ being the Messiah. Right.

I mean, the whole conversation God's having with a has is that a has is worried about something that's not going to amount to hill beans. Right. These two smoking or smoldering firebrands, they'll be dead.

Now, you don't even worry about these people. Right. Then you've got this this first chapter nine. If you want to put that back on the screen, I will. I'm queued up here. And again, everybody's pretty familiar with these, right?

For there'll be no. Oh, man. For there'll be no gloom for her who is in anguish in the former time he brought into the contempt land of Zebulun, the land of Nat Philly. But the latter time made glorious the way to see the land beyond the Jordan.

Oh, my goodness. The people who walked in the darkness have seen a great light. I scooted a little bit too much. I think it's going to be OK. I see the people who walked in darkness have seen a great line.

Those who dwelt in the land of deep darkness, their light has shown you have multiplied the nation. You have increased its joy. The rejoice, they rejoice before you as with great harvest, as they are glad when they divide the spool for the yoke of the yoke of his burden and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor.

You have broken as on the day of Midian for every boot of the of trampling warrior and a battle turmoil. And every garment ridden with blood will be burned as fuel for fire. For to us, a child is born to us, a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder and he shall be called wonderful, wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace and of the increase of his government and of peace.

There'll be no end on the throne of David and over his kingdom to establish it. And uphold it with justice and righteousness. From this time forth and forevermore, the zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this and then how to get this back off.

If you want to go ahead and. Oh, yeah. I'm glad I got you on here. So. How's there a double fulfillment in that?

So I may have to to backtrack just just a hair on what I said, the conversation that I was referring to that I had mainly focused on Isaiah 53. And that's that's a lot of the information that I got back from them was that there was a there was a specific.

Fulfillment of this, that it was speaking of somebody else, but also just think about that one verse that you just read, verse six, where a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us. OK, so they do believe in.

I'm a side to come, right? So they just didn't believe that Jesus was him. And so you say, how how did they not see Jesus? Well, they see a Messiah. Jesus wasn't him for them. Then he's still to come.

But so where's David's throne at the end? Right. Where's where's this? How does this make any sense if this is not Christ? Right. If we're not if we're not talking about Christ here, how can that how any logic at all fall in that?

Right. It doesn't. It's like Isaiah 53. I've heard several arguments from Ben Shapiro about Isaiah 53 and other guys. Ben Shapiro is not a biblical scholar, right? I mean, he he doesn't. Yeah, that's probably a bad example, but I've heard several several guys who are Jewish try to defend Isaiah 53 as saying that somehow another Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel as a nation.

You're right. Which is. At at at best. Purely ignorant. At worst, it's blasphemy. Right. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to read yourself into the text. That's the same problem that that I have with the the maniacs who call themselves charismatic.

Right. We're going to talk about this on your podcast coming up a little bit here in a couple of couple more weeks. No, I mean, one week, one. What's this? It'd be about a week from now. So the brass tacks is when you get to Matthew and we're just going to kind of we're going to kind of take it easy here.

But when you get to Matthew, we see that that Christ is a fulfillment of prophecy. And in two chapters, we read about how everything that happens according to Moses or according to Joseph and Mary is is so that it's done in accordance with prophecy.

Then you have these Chaldeans. We call them the three wise men or the Magi. You know, however, that that is, you know, however many there was with them show up having seen a sign in the stars and the Jewish people are oblivious to this.

Now, I have an understanding of as to why the Jewish people are oblivious to this, because they were forbidden in the law to observe.

Astrology. Right.

Yeah. So I can see them not looking to the stars for any answers whatsoever. Right. So this makes sense to me that the Magi would would know something that they didn't in relationship if it was something that was appearing in the heavens.

But then what does Herod do? But he consults the church leaders of the day, find the prophecies about the Lord or about the Messiah's coming, and then let's go kill him. Now, this is the craziest. I mean, from from the chute gate, this thing's crazy, right?

It's it's always bewildered me that the world comes seeking after the king. And those that he were born into wanted to kill him from day one. It's it's it's never ceased to amaze me. The Old Testament has enough scripture in it that points to the coming of the Messiah.

I think I read a while ago there were 70 something prophecies in the Old Testament that point to Jesus Christ being the Messiah and he fulfilled them all. That's an insane amount of prophecy to be fulfilled over the course of some I don't know, 4000 years, roughly.

But by. So it'd be.

26, 59, 49 books, 39 books. Is that math, right? My math might not be math, and as the kids say. Enter 39 Old Testament, 27 New Testament. Make total 66.

We should we should know that.

Yeah. In any case, my point is, is there so many there's so many books that span such a large period of time that the fact that one person fulfills all these prophecies is absolutely crazy. Unless he's God.

The standard is so and so impossible to me, right?

Yeah. Go ahead.

I mean, it's so interesting that you take us to the New Testament because I think that's where we're going to find an answer. We could sit in the Old Testament and try to rack our brain about how and why and how do they how they understand it?

How do they interpret it? What do you know? What does this look like to them? And it'll be interesting for us to get to get a Jewish individual to help us understand how they how they see it. But once you move to the New Testament, first, you brought about you brought here.

I want to kill him at the very beginning. Well, he would naturally want to kill him. Go back to the same verse that I just read or that I quoted that you read where a child will be born to us. Some will be given.

And what the government, the government will rest on his shoulders. So they they knew their scriptures. They knew that when he invested, when he had investigated about this prophecy, about who they were looking for, we're looking for this messiah where the government is going to be on his shoulders.

Not yours, Harrod. That's right on his shoulders. So naturally, he's going to come after the guy and try to get rid of him. He's Jesus is a threat, not a spiritual threat. He's a political threat because the Jews were looking for a political leader.

And that's why most of them rejected him there at that time. But, you know, all in all, when you get to the end of all things, there's a missing element. I mean, you talk about how obvious it is. Just look at these Old Testament scriptures.

You go to the book of Matthew. You start in the very beginning, the first several chapters, even even Matthew is trying to speak to his audience and say and tell them this, this was done to fulfill this.

This was done. And he gives them specific prophets. He gives them the prophet's name. What book to go look up. This was done to fulfill that. This was done to fulfill this. And I mean, he is trying to explain this to them.

But they're blinded as all get out. Yep. And on top of that, before these books were written, you had Jesus. God himself walking on this earth, doing things that nobody else has ever done. No, but nobody will ever do again.

And things that they had never seen before. Jesus was walking on water. He didn't just turn a little glass of water into wine. He turned these whole big old bunch of jars. They said in seven jars into wine and from water in an instant.

Um, he he created all these out of not out of out of five loaves and two fishes. I mean, he created enough to feed thousands.

Yep. Twice.

Yeah. Twice and had some left over. And we can go on and on. I mean, he raised people from the dead. He he calls Peter's ear to go back on.

There was a soldier here.

Soldiers here. Soldiers here that Peter cut off. Right. Raised people from dead. Heal people. Gave gave sight to the blind. The lepers, the lame. I mean, Demontiacs, you know, cast out demons. Jesus did all these things that nobody else could do.

No magician could mimic. And yet they were still blinded.

Yep. Still blind.

There's only one answer for that. Let's hear it. Missing element. And we're going to be discussing that in 2024 in April. Of the shameless power, the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Yes.

That was shameless.

I knew he was going to do that.

I'm not even I'm not even mad at you, but you're but you're 100 correct. The the fact of the matter is, is it takes God to show us who God is. Mm hmm. God is so. I'm going to use a term I think don't even make sense in English language, but it's such an otherness to who God is.

He's not like anything else. There's nothing else like him. So there's nothing to compare him to. Right. Explain the triune being apart from God. I'll wait. Right. There's explain how some how someone or something can exist entirely outside of time and yet still associate with things that are bound to time.

It's crazy. It's a crazy thing. There's nothing or no one else like God.

So I suppose it is impossible.

For the thing that has been created to know the thing that made it. Unless the thing that made it lets him be known by him. Yeah. And I think this is what is so crucial about we discuss this. And I don't know if I ever if I ever told you this or not.

We were talking about something one out of the book of Matthew. I think it's Matthew chapter 16. Bear with me as I frantically ripped through this Bible to find it.

Well, while you're looking for that.

Yes, yes. Matthew chapter 16. Praise God. Go ahead.

Well, I was just going to say, and you may you may get this as well. This is what I was thinking as we're getting to this. Before we point our finger too much at these people at that time. Sure. Who. Where would we be without the Holy Spirit opening our eyes and showing us who we are and showing us who Jesus Christ is?

We would still be lost and undone and and without the Holy Spirit.

Like, why?

Why am I still doing tomorrow the sin that I did yesterday when I've seen who I am and I've seen who Jesus is and I've seen what he's done for me? Why? Why do I continue down that same path? Well, why do I still have the same thinking that I that I did?

Even even after I have. Seen the depths of my sinfulness and the gracious mercy of Christ. It's because I'm still in my flesh, and that's that's just how depraved we are, that even after we've been born again and the Holy Spirit revealed these things to us, our flesh is so depraved that it still wants to cause us to forget what we've seen.

Yeah, I'm you know, this is not a something that a lot of Pentecostal people sit around and talk about because there's so much of the sanctification of the believer as a part of our teaching. And I believe in the gradual sanctification that that will continually be made more and more like Christ until we're glorified with him.

And I believe that we should some victories overseeing while we're alive. We should see we should see evidence in our lives of becoming gradually more like Christ in every area. I believe if you're not seeing that, you're not saved.

I just I just I know that sounds hurtful, hurtful, and I'm not mean for it to sound hurtful, but I mean for it to sound serious. If if we if we find ourselves continually hemmed up and tripped up by the same things, then I think that that's sign of of no generation.

Now, I'll give you a chance to rebuttal that if you think that I'm being too hard or if I'm speaking out of turn, you know, your freedom. So what you want to hear?

I think that's really close to how I would say it. So, you know, and to it. And there's a lot of ways that you and I both, we believe that that the Holy Spirit is great and the Holy Spirit is powerful.

Well, he's got it.

If he is powerful enough to regenerate a. Wretched, and if there was a worst term that I could use, I would use it a wretched individual like me, who's an enemy of God, a God hater. And he he could. Calls me a dead man, a dead and in my trespasses and sin to come to life, change me into a new person, then he also is powerful enough to change me in sanctification, make me more like Christ.

I mean, he is powerful, right?

So there was something that we were talking about sometime, sometime back on the labors, and we were we were discussing the power of the Holy Spirit. Now, it's just we're still talking about Christmas stuff.

I don't want I don't want to get lost in the weeds. The reason we're talking about about who Jesus Christ is and about the Holy Spirit and about Jewish tradition is because all three of these things are being discussed when we're talking about Christmas time.

Right. Because God chose to reveal himself to these Jewish people before he did anyone else. He chose to be born at this time to these people. And this way, this was all according to his divine plan. So we need to understand that this is not like it's about holly trees and bad Hallmark movies.

It's about it's about God revealing himself to us. And we were talking about about the Holy Spirit and changing us in one of one of the podcasts where we were talking about the power of the Holy Spirit.

And we were talking about Peter making a confession in chapter 16, verse 13. And he came into the district accessory of Philippi and he was asking the disciples, what do people say the son of man is? And they said, some say John the Baptist.

Others say Elijah. So there's Jeremiah, one of the prophets. Just full stop. That goes to show you how biblically ignorant the people that are speaking at the time are. Show me the Old Testament references that would give that would give them the idea that that in any way lined up with the rest of the Old Testament scriptures, you can't find it, can you?

So that's a sidebar. And he says, then, but who do you say that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, you're the Christ, the son of the living God. And he said, blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you.

But my father, who was in heaven, I will also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock, I'll build my church in the gates of of Hades shall not overcome it or overpower it. So whenever you you see this portion of scripture here, I don't recall what was being used.

Somebody said it was like faith. Was this a rock or something like that? And I said, no, it was the revelation of who Jesus Christ is, is the rock. That is the thing. And and I said that and didn't even come to my mind until it come out of my mouth, which is a weird thing.

But I have pondered on that and pondered on that since then. And that revealing of who Jesus Christ is is the most single solitary work and doctrine of the Holy Spirit. That's how the Holy Spirit begins to work on people.

On Acts chapter two, what happens when Peter preaches the gospel to those people? And he reveals who Jesus Christ is to those people and what they've done in light of who Jesus Christ is. And then they're pricked in their hearts and ask, what must we do to be saved?

Right. They knew everything Peter was saying was true, but it was when it was revealed to them of what they've actually done. And whenever Peter makes this statement that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, Jesus testifies that this is something that can't be discerned merely in the flesh, but God has revealed this to Peter.

And it's that revealing of who God is that is so foundational to God's people that hell cannot overcome that because God will reveal himself to whom he wants to. And you can't stop that. There's not a government in the world that's ever been created that can overcome God's divine sovereignty when it comes to revealing who he is to his people.

And there ain't a devil that can stop it. So I believe that that revelation of Jesus Christ is the is the foundation of the church that Jesus Christ is God.

You know what brother, I think you just changed my mind. Not not because I was differing between two opinions, but because I was I was taught a convincing way and and I had not heard or thought or pondered what you just said.