Theft, Law, Aliens, and Nuts

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Don't miss this fun and exciting new episode of Apologia Radio in which we talk about the law and personal property in a world with a whole lot of theft. We also talk about Joe Rogan and aliens and the sad case of Shawn McCraney (who seems to have lost it). Share it with the world, friends!

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00:05
I would say if the authorities didn't want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified
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Jesus in the public square. Use humanistic principles. Well, I would say the answer is yes. It's the same idea. I would say that.
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Same answer. I would say what's the problem with stardust bumping into stardust? In the cosmic picture?
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None. There's no problem. No way. In the cosmic picture, it won't matter. No, Mr.
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President, you are not protecting reproductive freedom. You are authorizing the destruction of freedom for one million little human beings every year.
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I'm sorry, my friends, but I am tired of seeing Jesus presented as a weak beggar.
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He is a powerful savior, and the gospel is not a suggestion, it is a command.
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Reverend Moller, don't you sympathize with that? I sympathize with every single human heart wishing to know the one true and living
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God, but I believe there's only one way that that can happen through Jesus Christ, and the gospel is about repenting of sin, not celebrating it.
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The threshold of an amazing adventure. We will explore the spiritual abyss.
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You have not experienced this before. All right, guys, welcome, welcome, welcome.
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Everybody welcome to Apologia Radio. This is the gospel heard around the world. A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A studios dot com.
01:55
That's where you guys go to get more. If you haven't gone there yet, make sure you guys do. Go check it out. Apologia studios dot com.
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You can go there and get a ton of stuff. You can get our new show,
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Cultish. We just finished some really important stuff with content on Bethel.
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You guys can also get some of that video footage on Apologia studios right here on YouTube. We also have a recent episode we just did with Dr.
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02:26
Walter Martin, kingdom of the cults and all that ministry that actually was the catalyst for this particular ministry.
02:31
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03:33
I'm Jeff. They call me the ninja. That's Luke to bear right there. What is up? And that's joy, the girl. And look who's back on the program,
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Marcus King, ginger Pittman. Hey, what's up? Hey, I'm excited about today's show because we are going to talk about some important stuff.
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Uh, King ginger is joining us today. He has been in production, uh, over the last couple of months with, uh, babies are murdered here.
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Part two. If you haven't seen part one yet, make sure you guys go check it out. It is on YouTube. Babies are murdered here.
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It's a very, very important film. It is what God used to begin so many ministries that bring the gospel in the area of abortion outside the local abortion mills.
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So please go check that out. But he is working right now full time on babies are murdered here to, uh, thank big thank you to everybody who supported end abortion.
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Now at the end of 2018 you helped us to get our budget for this year. Uh, we have added dozens and dozens and dozens of churches that is not people.
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That's churches, local churches across the country, really around the world now who are bringing the gospel to the local abortion mill and they're saving lives.
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And now, uh, and abortion now has started the movement, uh, where local churches, pastors, Christians are going to their local legislature demanding justice for the preborn immediate justice and preaching the gospel at their local legislature.
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So thank you to all of you guys who participated, but you also participated financially in making this film possible. Marcus, uh, what's the status right now at babies are murdered here to or about the wrap filming.
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Okay. So that's exciting. Absolutely. And then we're going to buckle down in the deep dark hole and that's right and knock out the editing.
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So that's right. So I'm excited. I'm excited. Can't wait. So Marcus and I are leaving, um, in a little over a week, uh, to go and do something very special with, uh,
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Paul Washer, uh, with his pastor Anthony, with Cy, uh, in Virginia.
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Did I lose my sound? Did I lose my sound? For me, you did. I kind of, it went quiet. Can you, yeah. I can hear you.
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Now it's back. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Everyone can hear me through your headphones? Okay, good. There you go. I don't know what happened there. Um, so we are going to Virginia.
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I'm going to give you guys the info right now. We're doing a little mini conference, uh, with Cy Tenbruggenkate, Paul Washer, and myself.
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We're going to be doing it at Christ Church in Radford, Virginia. It's a free conference. It's May 7th and 8th at 6 30
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PM. The title is the gospel is God's power. And um, this is a, again, free conference in Virginia on those dates.
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And um, if you guys have questions, uh, maybe go Google search Christ Church, Radford, Virginia, in terms of the location and all that stuff.
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What's the theme of it again? The gospel is God's power. Okay. Gospel is God's power. We're going out there to do this and, uh, in particular to focus on some end abortion now stuff and babies are murdered here too with Paul Washer and his pastor and their church.
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Yes. And so that's what's up. All right. So let's get right into it today, guys. You ready for this? Yeah. You said alien.
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So. Oh, that's right. Everyone's freaking out. Yeah. We got all kinds of, Oh, Hey, what's up guys to our live studio.
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Our live audience watching right now. All kinds of fun comments. Okay. So the title of the episode is theft, law, aliens and nuts.
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All right. So let's talk about what we're going to do. We're going to actually talk about the law of God today in modern culture and society.
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We're big believers in the gospel of God's grace and salvation through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
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But the scriptures teach that part of what the Messiah was going to do in the world is he was going to bring forth justice in the world.
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He wouldn't grow faint or weary until he had done. So Isaiah chapter 42, Isaiah two specifically says that when talking about what the
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Messiah's kingdom is going to be like, all the nations are going to be drawn up to the mountain of God and the Torah, the law would go forth from Zion.
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That's a center place of the people of God. It's going to come from the people of God. And so we know that the apostle
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Paul, when he speaks about justification through faith alone in Romans three, he says three 28, therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
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But then in Romans three 31, he says, do we then make void the law through faith?
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And he says, no, we actually establish it. And so the people of God in the new covenant under the rule of the
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Messiah in the his kingdom in the world ought to be the ones actually expressing God's righteous standards of justice in the world.
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Now, how does that apply in a day like today where we've got so much theft, so much theft?
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And I'm not talking about somebody breaking into your house and stealing your TV. That's obvious to all of us.
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But also we've got theft like property tax, property taxes. I own the land and then the government says, you got to pay me for the land that you own to do what?
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To pay for programs like prisons and public schools, things that you really want nothing to do with maybe at times.
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But they'll say, well, you got to pay this and you say, well, what if I don't pay this tax on my property?
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Well, then we're going to seize property and possibly, you know, give criminal charges to you.
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You might actually end up behind the slammer yourself. Even though it's your property, it belongs to you.
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You are threatened with theft through coercion. And I wanted to say something that my friend
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Douglas Wilson says, it doesn't become not thievery because it's done with a person in a black gown and a fancy pen.
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And so that's really, really important. So there's theft on that level. There's all kinds of other versions of theft today, but there's also theft that takes place on dem internets.
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Somebody could pour their lives into a team of people can pour their lives into a production of something.
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They could put money into it. They could put labor into it and time into it and they could put it out and somebody could just sort of say,
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I'll take that, snatch it and use for their own purposes. I remember years ago there was a guy,
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I don't know if you guys remember this. I think you were around Marcus when this is happening. There was a guy who had his own channel on YouTube that was monetized.
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He monetized his channel so he was making money on it. He was making monthly income off of it. And all he was doing is he was taking the labor and the work of other ministries, just a whole host of ministries.
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You had like Tony Evans, us, other people. He was just downloading all of our content.
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He was putting it up on his channel and he monetized it. So all he was doing is literally just sitting by the computer going, download up cash, download up cash.
10:06
Well, you only can get monetized on YouTube if you have like a certain amount of things happen on your channel, which one of the big ones is views, which means he also, the only reason he was even able to get monetized was because he's, he used other people's stuff.
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Yeah. We're not talking about, we're not talking about fair use. No, no, no, no. Because we should bring that up because there is, you'll see it all over the internet as well as people using other people's content very fairly.
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Yes. Yeah. And by the way, so let's, I'm going to have Marcus start to, me or Luke, whatever you want. You guys start the discussion, but I'm going to go ahead and just say this.
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Thank you for all you guys who are listening right now live and everyone who's downloaded this in the future. And just give you a warning here.
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We want this show to be a blessing to everyone who's listening and who's a part of this discussion. Stay with us in the discussion.
10:53
If you are a flat earther making comments in a thread right now, I promise you, I am hiding you permanently from this.
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All I have to do is, I'll just say this. All I have to do is push a button and you are hid permanently from the show.
11:06
You will try to type in anything we do in the future and it will not allow anybody to see your comments.
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So if you mention flat earth in our feed, I am going to hide you permanently.
11:17
I'm not going to put you in timeout. I'm going to permanently erase you from our channel. If you mention flat earth. In their defense, we brought up space.
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Yes. You said aliens. And we are going to talk a bit about aliens on this episode. But my real question is, my real question is, what has your excuse been every other episode we've done?
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Yeah, that's right. So we're talking about God's law, the Messiah, his kingdom, those sorts of things, justice.
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If you mention flat earth, bye Felicia. Okay. All right. Marcus, go ahead.
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What are we talking? We're not talking about flat earth. No, no, no. Marcus, do we need to put you in timeout?
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Let's start out talking about fair use versus not, versus copyright.
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I was going to say, sorry, why don't we tell why we're having this discussion? Well, we've had it happen to us.
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We've had people, and honestly, I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe they think that downloading our content and putting it on their
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YouTube page or is the same thing as sharing, but we're going to have a conversation as to why that is not sharing.
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Did your wife, you do, I'm sorry, your wife, Laura, you're so bad, Laura just said the earth is flat.
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She's trying to get banned. Laura, no. She doesn't believe that. I promise you. Yeah. No, she doesn't. I'm sorry.
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Very funny, Laura. She's just testing you. Yeah, she's testing them all. That's great. Well, yeah.
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Yeah. So it's happened to us. Okay. Just get rid of that guy right there. Cause he's okay. I'm done with them.
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Is he joking? Or is this a joke? He's serious. He's serious. He's made multiple comments. Hey guys, if you joke about it,
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I'm not going to know, and then you're going to be gone forever. Felicia. All right. Uh, should I really? Okay.
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Bye. That's not his first comment. Okay. All right. See ya. Let's hide user on channel. Bye bye. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. So someone, so, um, obviously when you share something across social media, what you're doing is you're saying,
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Hey, this person did this cool thing. You should check it out here. And it links back to the original creator. Right.
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But so, uh, when someone downloads it and puts it up under their own name, what that means is that they're taking credit for, or at least what we would say is they're taking credit for the labor behind that, which would include production set up.
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there is like fair use. So legitimate fair use would be like taking a clip like we do on this radio show and talking about it and stuff like that.
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Right. And then they take Joe Rogan quotes. Oh, of course. We commentate on them. Yeah. That's legitimate.
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That's legitimate. Fair use. But then there's like the, the weird side of YouTube where they just download other people's content and then re upload it and monetize it and claim it as their own.
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And then what that does is it splits the views. And like, I think you see this worse on Facebook where people like you have like these massive pages that are owned by corporations with lots of money.
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And then they'll download like someone's video from YouTube that might get like a thousand views and then they'll put it on their channel and they'll get millions.
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Right. So that's like one of the problems that's happening right, right now for sure. Especially on, especially on Facebook.
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So it's like about knowing the difference between, you know, I'm just going to re upload this. And look, if you just put a little graphic in front of the video that says this is used with fair use, it doesn't make it fair use.
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There's a lot of stipulations and requirements for fair use. Well, even for example, if we played, if we played an extended long
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Joe Rogan clip and then didn't say anything about it, even if we, even if we provided commentary on every other clip we played, right.
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Like that's, that's not us interacting with his, that's us just using his clip to fill time to make money.
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Right. And that's the problem with like YouTube right now is that they don't distinguish between fair use.
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Right. So you can, there's companies that are paid money just to go and flag anybody that does anything fair use.
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Right. Or if like you make a video responding to a video and it's your video and you just don't like what they said about you.
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Yeah. That's unfortunate. If you think they're just being mean, then you can flag it, which would be improperly punishing fair use.
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Right. Right. Right. So, so I think like the one thing is like, you know, what we're seeing now, like overwhelmingly is the value of content is going low.
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Like it's worthless. Yeah. So like, like 10 bucks a month, you get everything on Netflix or 699.
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You're going to get everything on Disney's ever had. So the value of content is, is, uh, is, is, is getting less and that's because of the free market.
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So that's good. Right. Like that's a, a movie is cheaper to watch now than it's ever been in the history of the world.
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You wouldn't know from the prices at the theater zone. No, it's true. Or Netflix. They'll figure it out eventually.
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So yeah. So the value of content is going lower. So that means people think like there's still no inherent value in it.
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Right. At all. Well, what if, can I just throw this out there too? When, when say Netflix has this really cheap monthly rate where you can just stream and stream and stream like a, just a host of different films and it's just, you know, it's, it's, it's cool to be able to do that.
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Um, but what does behind all that people don't consider what Netflix has to do to actually get that content or how much it costs to have a license for something.
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Yeah, millions and millions of dollars to be able to have this, this content on their service to stream to, to millions of people.
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Or when Netflix creates a production, uh, something that belongs to them and they make it and they put $150 million into the production of this or $100 million into the production of this.
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That's money that they earned through their business that they had to pay. Uh, they had to pay professionals, actors, a tech, you know, technical people, all those things to be able to make this production something valuable for the people who are purchasing from them.
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So you, you, you can't say, well, it was only nine 95. It's like, no, it was a hundred million dollars.
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Right. It's nine 95 for you and then millions of other people. That's the only way they're able to.
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Netflix wouldn't work if one person bought a subscription, they'd be done. Right. Yeah.
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Yeah. So we've had multiple instances where people take, not like you're saying, not just clips of our stuff, they've taken entire videos that we've done, downloaded it, put it up on their own page.
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And so this happened recently. We had an internal discussion and someone was saying, well, isn't that just like free advertising?
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It was like, no. One, cause they've stolen work that we've done to there, especially when it comes to YouTube.
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There's only one reason to put videos up on your page and it's to, to get views, right?
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To be able to either get to where you can be monetized or if you are monetized to make money. Exactly. And so for us, those views are money, right?
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Equals money. Right. Like for the income for the ministry. Yes. Yes. So not only are you stealing something we've done, but you're also stealing in the future from us, uh, money that should be coming.
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And I wanted to say this too, just throw this out there in terms of how we do ministry at apology of church apology of studios.
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I want you to know that we don't have a nine to five schedule here. There are times where pastor Luke and I will have 80, 80 hours of, of, of ministry work a week.
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We may, we may barely see our families that week, or there's times where, where joy has the same, you know, we're not like a nine to five thing.
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Sometimes I'll be here until 10 or 11 o 'clock at night working, producing content, figuring out how to do more missions work and film that to make it a benefit to those who are lost in the cult or to Christians to prepare them.
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And we put that up and yes, YouTube actually allows us to receive, uh, to receive a payment for them so that I can continue to pay joy so I can continue to pay
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Carmen so I can keep these lights on. So watch, we can do more ministry that is literally saving people.
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I mean, guys, I said in my office two nights ago with a family of five people that were in Mormonism that came to Christ through and, and, and have been equipped through our content.
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Um, I received a message yesterday about a Mormon that came to Christ through watching the content here. God is using this to actually literally transform the world.
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Also, listen, this is very, very important in terms of theological, um, rigor. Um, we don't know a lot of the people who are taking our content and putting it up.
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One time I saw somebody take a bunch of our content, they put it up on their channel. I went to their channel. I was like, well, let's,
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I mean, I would, that's older content. I don't know, maybe. And I looked through it and this person had us right next to heretics, heretics.
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And I was like, I was like, that's, that's, and they were, it wasn't, they weren't saying anything bad about us. They were just like sort of pulling content and like, so people go to their channel, they listen to something from us and then they go and listen to Kenneth Copeland.
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And they think that that's the same realm of theology. I'm worried about that person that goes to that channel and sees us mixed in with other heretics and maybe gets led astray.
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So I'm concerned. That's why people, when people create something, there's a reason why people have a brand.
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There's a reason why Apple doesn't want to mix their products with, with brands they don't trust.
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Right. Like there's, and that we shouldn't even have to, we don't, in terms of labor making money, it's something that you find yourself, especially when you do ministry, having to rationalize constantly.
20:52
Right. But there is skilled labor that goes into doing something like this. Marcus, while filming
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Babies Are Murdered Here Too, have you used any skilled labor? Yeah. Can anyone, can anyone just turn on and operate any of those cameras?
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No. Efficiently and well? No. With no knowledge whatsoever? No. So what we're seeing, like this happened first with like the music industry, like people weren't getting paid for music anymore because people were like, like bootlegging it or whatever.
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But you know, I always heard the line that piracy is a distribution problem.
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So when people start like stealing it, it's because it's easier to do that because you're not providing a better way.
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And so with like films, you have Netflix where it's way easier to watch it on Netflix than it is to find a good bootleg. So they've solved the distribution problem.
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But what we're seeing now is like the value of content because, because creating media on YouTube or creating music or creating digital art is so easy to make and distribute and there's no government regulations on it pretty much whatsoever.
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Like we're seeing that what's happening is not that media is becoming like, like undervalued.
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It's like we're starting to see the true value of media, which isn't a lot. So the true value of media and music and stuff was actually overpriced for like a long time.
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20 bucks for an album was overpriced and now it's going down. And now we're seeing it lower and we're seeing what the real value is not on the artwork, but on the value as the artist.
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Right? Does that make sense? So we're seeing that it's really about brands. And so when you take a video and you're, you're, you're uploading it on someone else's channel, it's really the brand that's getting hurt because you're not funneling people back to, to the core brand.
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And so it's, it's more brand damaging in that sense. Right, right. Yeah. And in terms of ministry, it's ministry damaging.
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Especially when you're uploaded alongside of Benny Hinn. That's exactly right. Exactly right.
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People assume like, oh, I guess this is all the same thing and it's not. And so the truth is, is we, we put all of our effort into this ministry and this content because we see what
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God is doing with it, but we also want to continue to bless other people with more content, which means we want them to come back to our channel.
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And so all that we're investing in to really reach people with Christ, we want people to be able to participate in that and to see that.
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And so when people just take content and go, whoa, let's put it up over here. You have to understand that it'd be better for you just to share the content so they can get back to our channel and actually get more content.
23:34
If someone said, well, I just, I saw this and I think that it would change people's lives. Fantastic. Share the content with them. But it doesn't mean you take ownership of it.
23:42
And someone says, well, that just seems really pithy and just, you know, selfish. It's like, well, we'll know if, if right now you're watching this show, just know that before we went on today, we had a staff of people putting together the lights, putting together the camera.
23:56
We have to pay, how much a month do we pay for our, our internet? Oh, it's like 500 bucks. It's like 500 bucks a month because it's the highest quality internet possible because we were running into problems where if we were just using
24:06
Cox, we couldn't even stream stuff because if, if traffic got busy in the area, our show was killed.
24:13
It was literally killed for the night. We couldn't even do anything with it. So we had to get, what do we call it again? Fiber optic.
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It's a direct fiber. We got direct fiber optic. Right to the internet. Right to the internet. So we were just leap.
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So now there's no problems, like 500 up, 500 down supposed to be. And so like, that is a monthly expense.
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Like, so my point is, is like, you don't realize like to, to do all this, to reach people with the gospel in a very effective way in the public square, which is where you need to be now in people's pockets.
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You, you, it takes a lot of labor, a lot of skilled labor, a lot of work, a lot of effort and a lot of money.
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And and so to do that, like we need everyone to sort of participate with us and respect
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Exodus chapter 20. You shall not steal, you shall not steal.
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And so that's God's law. I think we can agree no matter where you're at on the spectrum of Christian theology, like you should not steal is still a thing.
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You would think. Yeah. Except for maybe Sean McCraney. I'm not surprised anymore. He may not think that. Well, no,
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I mean, I mean that seriously, Sean McCraney, like, like literally may not actually believe that. And we'll get into some of that just a little bit here.
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When I said theft, law, alien and nuts. That's what I was. We're not talking about like cashews.
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No, no. We're talking about when you've lost your marbles theologically. We talk or flatter.
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By the way. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was just saying. Sheologians. Nice try earlier. I saw you trying to get booted to summer.
25:39
Can you boot this guy? I've had enough. Which one? I'm not gonna say his name because I don't want him to know. He'll know in a sec.
25:46
He's just trolling us. Anyways. I mean, we've had this discussion a lot just as far as, you know, the gospel's free, but the power electricity is not and stuff, you know,
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I've had a couple of people recently that are like they want us to send them tracks for free, you know, and I'm like, no, like this is a thing.
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The thing is, we also, you know, we work really hard to give lots of free content. We do. Right. Everything that you're listening to right now.
26:12
Right. You're listening to it for free. Yeah. So documentaries you put up for free. Yes. Yes.
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So there's, I mean, and, you know, YouTube, I think that that kind of goes with sort of the confusion on YouTube is that you're there and you're watching for free.
26:28
And so it's kind of like, oh, well, it's not a big deal. This is just like a big pot that we all just like put our ideas in.
26:35
Right. And I can kind of like take them out and put them on my own page or share or whatever. Right. I don't know.
26:41
I just mainly I wanted to talk about it just to clear up any potential confusion because there is real.
26:48
I know that not everyone believes it, but there is real work that happens at Apology Studios. A lot.
26:55
Around the clock. There are people that have had to educate themselves and train themselves and train others and teach others.
27:02
There are people that work till the late hours of the night and getting content for you.
27:08
Come in early, who set up cameras, who know how to use cameras that you will never know how to operate.
27:15
Yeah. I got to say I have like 50 buttons on one thing. I give an example of what it looks like, guys, in terms of what this is also you.
27:21
This is your participation with us. If you did, if you're a part of all access, you're making all of this possible. We have content that we've been working on for about six months now from our mission in Australia, New Zealand, and that is already bearing fruit.
27:37
People are saving lives now outside of abortion mills because Apologia invested in going out there to equip the church out there.
27:42
But we wanted the world to see the content. And guess what? You're not going to pay a dime for it. Nothing. Right. We paid a pretty penny for it.
27:48
A lot of time and a lot of labor and a lot of risk to get that content. But it's been about five, six months in the making because there's so much content to create and to distribute so that everybody can see that and hopefully be transformed by that.
28:02
You know, that's content that's that's been in the hopper for like five months now. But one of the problems we have is technology.
28:08
The content is so high quality. Our technology is even failing. So we got to buy new technology to make sure the content can work.
28:15
It's just there's so much to this. For those of you that use our website, when you have someone build a website for you, you don't just say like,
28:24
OK, hey, there it is. No, you'd have to have someone maintain that website if it goes down.
28:29
Someone has to fix it. There are plugins that you have to you have to pay for. There's constant failures.
28:34
Someone has to go in and fix stuff. We got a person right now, Tim, who's who's building a new thing for end abortion now.
28:41
Check this out, guys. This is amazing. So that all these local churches who are part of end abortion now and saving lives, they can communicate instantly through their pocket like it's right in their pocket.
28:50
The app is there. It's connected to the website. You're going to have 400 local churches across the United States that are literally talking to each other through their phones instantly.
28:59
And that's all being built. The website's being restructured so that it's easy. It's accessible. People can talk to each other.
29:06
We will let you know when that's done. Yes. You don't need to email us every week to find out when it's happening.
29:12
But just know this, that the amount of years and time and labor that went into learning how to do that sort of a thing and then all the people connected to it that need to be paid for their labor, all of that is only made possible through all of you guys who partner with us.
29:26
You give towards this and we just don't think other people should steal it. Right. It's like, simple as that.
29:32
Why has Bernie Sanders infiltrated the church so bad?
29:38
Nothing's really free. We've talked about this. Again, when you get free
29:44
Bibles, it wasn't free. Somebody paid for it. Watch this. Hey, even the gospel is free to us.
29:49
It costs Jesus a lot. Oh. See? Yeah. Yeah.
29:55
Wow. Yeah. Can't come back from that one. No. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, yeah.
30:00
Like you're talking about like all this content from Australia. Yeah. We're handing, we're giving it to you for free, but it's not free.
30:06
Somebody paid for it. Somebody donated, you know. I promise you American Airlines made us pay them. Oh yes.
30:12
Right. Yeah. But people don't understand that. You know, it's like, well, you're a Christian. You should give. And it's like, no. Yeah. Or when someone asks for -
30:17
It's not how this works. Well, okay. When someone asks for tracks for free, when someone asks for tracks for free, it's like, do you want to see the orders that just came in since Saturday of all the people who need it?
30:28
Do you think that the guy who made the tracks for us gives those to us for free? Right. That his printer prints those for free?
30:34
Someone wrote those, took time to write them. Someone edited them. We had to pay for them.
30:40
Yeah. We had to pay for them. Yeah. We paid for them on our own pocket. The thing is too, is I would just suggest anyone who has a problem with what we're suggesting,
30:48
I want to ask you one question. Do you do your job for free? No. You don't.
30:54
You don't. Because that's not even, I think it's insane. What if your job is a mom? No. I mean.
31:02
It's costing her a lot. Yeah. Right. There's a heck of a lot of labor there. She's getting paid with crowns in heaven.
31:11
That's right. So Marcus, help us with this though. You love this discussion of the free market and capitalism versus socialism.
31:21
We would say that the foundation of economics is Exodus chapter 20.
31:27
The foundation of economics is you shall not steal. Yes. The foundation of economics is personal ownership.
31:35
And love your neighbor as yourself. And love your neighbor as yourself. So personal ownership of property. You have God's law in the Old Testament that gives you case law examples of don't even move your boundary marker into your neighbor's property because their property is their property.
31:48
It was a respect for other people's stuff. And so what we say about Bernie Sanders is that his economics theories are unjust, wrong, and immoral because they essentially violate that fundamental principle that you mentioned.
32:03
You shall love your neighbors. You love yourself. You shall not steal. Yes. So can you just help everyone with that, Marcus? Instead of this is, so people don't see this as like, this is our opinion, it's a bickering session sort of thing.
32:13
Help us with the foundation of economics. Well, I think the very fact that the
32:19
Bible verse exists, that you shall not steal, implies that somebody owns something.
32:26
So if you look at like the parable of the vineyard worker, for example, the vineyard worker says, do
32:31
I not have a right to do with my money as I wish? So it implies that the vineyard worker owns his money and that he can spend it how he wants.
32:41
And so taking something from him is theft. Now God owns all things, but he's given authority to us to own things as well.
32:54
We lease stuff from God, not the government. We have a delegated authority. Yeah. And so it was interesting, too, when we were at the city council and they were talking about this piece of property that the government owned, remember that?
33:07
And they didn't want to sell it because they felt like they could get more money if they kept it than if they sold it.
33:16
But the truth is that the government owning it actually would make them less money.
33:23
This is why government shouldn't own property and the government doesn't own property. They should not. Yeah, they should not. Because the complaint was that there's like all these like high, the cost of rent in downtown
33:37
Phoenix is too darn high. Like that's what people were complaining about and they wanted low rent stuff.
33:42
But the truth is they proposed a plan to get a billion dollars in property taxes from this property.
33:50
If they would have got rid of the property taxes, the price of the rent would go down by several million dollars a year.
33:57
You know, so that's when you were talking about earlier, the government stealing things and then like property taxes and owning land is unacceptable.
34:09
But when it comes to like content, like we create, you create media and then you distribute it for the world to see in hopes that people see it and then it ties back into the brand's value as itself or that video content can monetize something else, whether like you're doing a podcast or it's like you put your podcast out there and then you hope to sell t -shirts or something like that, right?
34:31
So there's a way to monetize your content, even if you're giving away stuff for free.
34:40
There's still like, for example, if you get, if you're giving away free pens and it has like the name of like, you know, the auto dealership on the pens, it's to advertise the auto dealership and hope that they come and eventually buy a car.
34:54
So, so even like, you know, the, the free things are, you know, have, have a purpose there, you know, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
35:03
Yeah. And here's, this would be maybe a way to cap off this discussion, unless you've got more to say. I'll just say this. I think this is important way to at least end the discussion.
35:11
Like how do we grow and are we sanctified as, as the people of God in this area in terms of respecting other people's property, respecting their labor and having a high level of respect for neighbor and love for neighbor in this area.
35:26
I tend to see, and maybe you guys will agree or not agree with this, I tend to see that oftentimes as Christians, when we need something done, we'll try to find a
35:36
Christian who will do it for nothing. Oh yeah. Right? Like we sort of have the expectation, well, you're a
35:42
Christian, you should do this for me for free. Or we pay them less because, well, you're a Christian. Right. Yeah.
35:48
It's like, I'm a Christian, you're a Christian, so I'm going to pay you less. It's like, I think, no, we need to think about this differently.
35:53
Actually, as a matter of fact, I think that if you're going to do business with a brother or sister and use their labor, you should bless them and pay them more, you should pay them actually what they're worth at least and bless them, pour into them and recognize their labor for you rather than trying to get a free ride.
36:11
Yeah. I, that was really impressive. I mean, just visiting Moscow, I know you guys can attest to this, just, you know, the downtown area there where a lot of those businesses are owned by people that go to Christchurch, you know, their service, their product is incredible, you know, and that was really impressive.
36:29
I mean, like, no, these, we should tip them good because they did an excellent job, you know, and, and we shouldn't go in there and say, oh, you go to, you go to Doug's church, so do
36:37
I get a discount? Right. Can I get it for free? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I'll tip you less because you're my brother in Christ.
36:44
It's like, wait, what? Yeah. Right. It doesn't make any sense. So yeah, I think it's a good discussion to have, and I think the foundation of it we need to all embrace is
36:52
God's law is the foundation, and if we truly want to live in a society where love for God, love for neighbor's a thing, then we're going to care about God's standards of justice and righteousness and equity in a society.
37:05
And I think that the foundation of all economics is that fundamental principle in law, you shall not steal.
37:13
Underneath that is the assumption of personal property, of personal ownership, and there's value to that in terms of labor.
37:22
What somebody is creating for you is with their labor behind it, there's a sense of their property that they're handing over to you.
37:30
Like I pulled this together and I'm handing it over to you. Now we understand it when we go to the restaurant, we go to the restaurant and walk inside, we see a building.
37:38
This costs them money. I see employees, costs them money to train. It costs them money hourly. I walk up to the counter,
37:44
I see all the product right there, and I go, somebody paid to put that there, they paid to have it cooked and everything else.
37:50
And I recognize when I go in there, like, I've got to pay them, I got to pay them for all that this took them to put into my hands.
37:59
And so I go, here's the exchange of currency, even though that currency is not very valuable anymore.
38:05
Currency. And I go, give me the bowl. I say, thank you. And I get my cup and I walk away and I go, this was my, this is my stuff, but I recognize there's value to this and this is all their labor and work and product and I put it into my hands.
38:17
Well, that concept has to actually move beyond the taco shop and it has to move into this area here that we're talking about in terms of when
38:27
Marcus went out and filmed, say, for Babies Are Murdered Here 1 or 2, you have to understand that he took his own labor and work and time and money to put it into travel, time, editing, technology, whatever it took to produce this thing to give to the world.
38:48
And even for Babies Are Murdered Here 2, this is what's important, is to understand there are people, brothers and sisters globally, that gave towards this mission so that we could send
38:57
Marcus to all these places and pay for the hotel and pay for the food and pay for the car and pay for everything it took to get him there to get the content.
39:05
All that is the training. It's the labor. And then eventually here's the product right here in the hand.
39:12
And Marcus goes, here's the product we all participated in and labored for. And it's right here. Here's a whole company of us right here who made this thing.
39:19
And it's up to Marcus and the people who created that to say, and here is what
39:25
I want for it. Now, he can determine on his own to say,
39:30
I want to give it to the world. But that's because it's his property. It's the property of those who produced it.
39:36
But nobody should have the right to say, I'll determine myself what to do with this in terms of its value and what you should get for it.
39:45
Nobody can make that decision except those who are involved in the production. Well, Netflix isn't going to let you re -upload their movies to other
39:53
YouTube channels. No, they won't even let you take a screenshot. Unfortunately. Are they banning screenshots now?
40:01
You can't take it. Maybe on your computer. But like if you're on your phone and you attempt to take a screenshot on the Netflix app, no, no.
40:08
It won't let you. Oh, you can't? No. From the app? At least that's how it used to be. I mean, wow. Unless they changed something in the last few months.
40:14
Let's try it. Wow. Try it. Wow. I think there's a conversation on the flip side of this too.
40:19
I think there's something we've experienced where you have, you know, we've had
40:24
Christians that provided services for us and have unnecessarily charged us premium and maybe it wasn't a premium service.
40:33
Right. And so I think there's, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a line in the middle here. Right. So there's, you know, expecting something for free, but there's also overcharging, you know, for something that you shouldn't be.
40:44
Well, yeah, we can say if you suck, you shouldn't get paid well for what you do. Yeah. Yeah.
40:49
Well with that, and that's, I think that's where people would say like there's the value of capitalism.
40:54
Right. Is that if you charge too much for a crappy product, you'll not stay in business.
41:00
That's what movie theaters are facing a problem with right now. Right. So cause - That popcorn though. Yeah. Netflix can't give me a $10 bucket of popcorn.
41:09
You can go to Harkins and just buy popcorn though. Their popcorn is the best. I was just having this discussion the other day.
41:15
My wife would love that. She has an addiction to movie theater popcorn. I'm like, babe, it's not that great. She's like, it is.
41:21
Harkins is really, I was just having this discussion cause I've gone to three different theaters like recently. Harkins is really good.
41:27
AMC is decent, but there's some other ones I went to and I was like, they are not that good. Candy always gets the popcorn with the butter and always makes her sick afterwards.
41:35
Her stomach hurts for like three hours and every time she knows she's going in, I'm like, you're punishing yourself. She's like, I can't help it.
41:40
It's so good. I'm like - To quote our friend, Scott Murray, it better be what? That's why theaters are having to change things up and offer alcohol and full meals and stuff
41:50
And those places are awesome. You can order food and stuff. But that's a great thing about the free market.
42:00
Because the cost to distribute is so cheap on content, it means it's also made the cost to produce content a lot cheaper.
42:09
So anybody can make something now, which is great news. Yeah. So we don't have to have an
42:15
Avenger -sized budget to be able to compete in the same field anymore.
42:21
Because we can all distribute our films, you know, equally. That's a good point. All right. Now let's talk about aliens.
42:28
Aliens. Jeff's been chomping at the bit this morning. I'm so excited. Now, I want you to know that I've been studying this subject for a very, very, very long time.
42:34
I've spent countless hours. I've spent an embarrassing amount of hours studying this subject because I had a family member who is very close to me, my brother.
42:44
And he's not a believer. And we had some discussions, and he was heavily into the aliens thing.
42:50
And so I said, who are you reading? Who do I need to study to understand what you're saying? And so I've read Sitchin, I've studied
42:56
Bob Lazar, all the stuff. And I'm just giving you a little sampling today that we want to just give you a little taste today.
43:03
We're doing a cultish and shiologans mashup. And that'll be available for you guys next week.
43:11
No? Soon. It's not going to be, I think, well, we're still trying to figure it out because we post on different days.
43:19
Okay. But it should be... Soon. I think it's... Yeah, soon.
43:24
In the next few weeks. Cultish shiologans mashup, and it's going to be on aliens. We're going to talk about all the claims, and we're going to talk about the popular things like Bob Lazar.
43:34
I think we're going to talk about Sitchin and others. So very important episode. We're going to try to talk about as much as we can. I don't think people understand that if you want to get in a three hour conversation with Jeff for no reason at all, just bring up aliens.
43:47
Yes. And it's instant. You're done. So what we talk about for the last few
43:53
Apology of Radios, right before we go live, Jeff and I are talking about aliens because we've both been studying for this.
43:59
And then we have Carmen in the background saying, we need to start. Put your headphones on.
44:04
Will you guys mic check? Mic check. We thought we were. We were talking about aliens. We're talking into the microphone. So it's an important discussion to have, especially in light of, say, guys like Joe Rogan, who's probably got the most popular podcast on the planet, who is heavily into discussing aliens.
44:18
You got Alex Jones' discussion with Joe Rogan on his podcast talking about aliens that has just gone bananas.
44:27
And this is an important discussion to have because as we get deeper and deeper into the claims about Bob Lazar, Area 51,
44:34
Sitchin, all the New Age stuff around this, DMT, Alex Jones talking about Nazis and all that stuff.
44:42
Floppies. Yeah. I'm telling you, it gets crazy. Well, and that's the thing is in this area, for whatever reason,
44:49
Alex Jones is no longer a weirdo. Yeah. Like, know what? He's the normal one. He's the normal one.
44:55
Yeah, he's the new normal. I mean, he's still weird, but for some reason he's become like a strange authority on this.
45:02
Oh yeah. And people listen to what he has to say. They do. And I'm going to play a clip so you guys get a sampling of this is the conversation happening in our culture today.
45:09
Alex Jones explaining aliens are interdimensional beings on the Joe Rogan podcast.
45:15
Christian's got to have an answer for this. We can't just have the quick quip and answer to say demons.
45:23
Now, I agree. Demonic stuff. Agree. But you just can't say as a person, demons, you got to be able to interact in this world.
45:30
Look, if you study the world of Mormonism so that you can effectively reach Mormons, you can't just be dismissive in this particular realm, which is growing and booming and it's its own worldview.
45:41
You can't just go demons like you need to get into their heads, get into their worldview, get into their evidence, get into all that they're saying so that you can communicate effectively in this area and know a bit about what you're talking about.
45:52
This is Alex Jones on Joe Rogan talking about aliens are interdimensional beings.
45:58
OK, but let's tell me how the connection between aliens and the Nazis took place. When did all this start?
46:04
Let me let me begin. This is really already funny. This is a real deal.
46:09
I believe you. This is you ask, who are they? It's people who are psychically, genetically available to interface in this incredibly diverse universe with all these dimensions above and below and all around us with consciousnesses.
46:26
And the truth is no energy is ever destroyed. It all continues on. The truth is our bodies is a fact or a communal hive organism of all of our ancestors and all of their race memories, but not in just some compressed epigenetic system.
46:42
It's beyond that. It's an electrochemical antenna. They've proven this that connects to higher and lower dimensions.
46:50
So our body. This is a fact. This is a fact. They have proven. This is a fact.
46:55
Here's the fact. Everything he said is super new age. Everything he just said. And keep in mind, he's probably smoking dope while he's saying this.
47:03
Oh, no, they were. No, I know. I know. I've seen them together. They were. I think. I think in this episode they were smoking pot and drinking.
47:09
It's like Cheech and Chong up in there. They mostly. They pretty much do every episode. Right. Yeah, I think so. I didn't know if Alex Jones partook or.
47:17
Oh, he. Oh, no, he does. But I don't know if this one they were doing both or what or. Well, I don't know.
47:23
I had to look it again. Wow. Because our predecessors would put us in a position without giving us a bodysuit that is them.
47:30
Our families are loving us. They're holding. Oh, my gosh. They're wrapped all around us. Their strength. Their will. They're bad.
47:35
They're good. Their sins. The good things they did. The battles they won. The battles they lost. The woman they love. The man they love.
47:41
It's all in us. All these people. It's why we're able to look into so many things and have so many different experiences.
47:50
So keep in mind that Jeff is foregoing. It's foregoing to see a movie about aliens tomorrow and to do a show.
47:59
Yes. Yes. That's how much we love. That's how dedicated. That's how much we love you. And it goes into our earlier discussion about time and labor putting into this stuff.
48:07
Like, I'm giving up. Because there's a lot of things that go into this discussion. Because you have spacecraft and technology.
48:13
You have encounters. You have abductions. You have the new age portion of it. You have people actively trying to reach out to aliens through use of DMT and ayahuasca.
48:26
So there's a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. If you take drugs and then you pray to a god and a god shows up, it might not.
48:35
Yeah. That's right. Demons. Demons. So all the shaman, all the ancient religions, everybody says there are the good ones and there are the bad ones.
48:42
And people are interfacing. So you say, where does it begin? From the Tibetans to the Mesoamericans to the
48:48
Egyptians to the Druids to every ancient society describes the same thing. There are bad things that look like elves that have horns when they show you who they really are.
48:57
And there are good things, but they don't contact you unless you contact them. And then they're almost not even concerned with what you're doing.
49:05
Maybe this is why a lot of Alex Jones's crazy prophecies, if you will, have come true because he's been talking to demons.
49:14
I don't. That's what Joy and I were mentioning. Like, has he mentioned the DMT experience that you are aware of?
49:21
Yeah. I don't know that he has said that he's done it, but I know Joe Rogan has. I know Joe Rogan has talked to multiple people.
49:29
Yeah. Having it. People who he interviewed Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson. And Mike Tyson, bless him, said that after he did
49:38
DMT, he was like no longer worried about death ever again. Right. Yeah. And Joe Rogan is really, really interested in this
49:46
DMT discussion right now. And he's done it a lot. And he talks about his experiences. And a lot of these people across this broad spectrum of people who are using
49:53
DMT and Ayahuasca, they talk about similar experiences. And when they break through that realm, they have communications with very similar beings.
50:02
And I love the admission from many of these people where they say things like, and these beings you talk to are kind of nefarious.
50:09
And they seem to not really like us. And they give us information, but they also expect things back from us.
50:14
It's like, oof, demons. It's crazy. It is interesting.
50:20
But I find that interesting what Alex Jones says when you talk about like the angels or these other aliens and then these good ones over here, but they don't seem, they seem sort of like, you know, they don't want anything to do with us.
50:28
And I'm like, this is all sounding very interesting. But the bad ones want to do a lot of talking to us.
50:33
Right. So this is an important discussion because it's becoming popularized through social media, online, through guys like Joe Rogan, talking about these
50:42
DMT experiences. A lot of people are trying them. A lot of people are trying to communicate. And I want to say that the Bible talks about this.
50:48
Like when God commands against this kind of behavior, it was in a culture of people who were pagan, who were using drugs to speak to people and things from the other side.
50:57
And the command against sorcery and pharmakia and engaging in these things to communicate with the other side is actually forbidden in Scripture.
51:05
God calls it an abomination. And there's something God is trying to protect human beings from. Do I believe that there's another dimension?
51:11
I hope I do. I'm a Christian. And so are there, is there a spiritual element and dimension that you can breach?
51:19
I hope we do every day as Christians when we're praying and talking to God. Good point. But there's an element to this discussion in terms of if you take pharmakia, sorcery, medication, drugs to break into that other dimension and realm to communicate with other entities like demons, you're opening yourself up to a world of spiritual hurt and danger.
51:42
I've sat in front of people who were New Age, who used drugs to communicate with the other side and to break into that realm and it led to demonic possession.
51:52
Now, don't get me wrong. Not every person that gets in front of me as a pastor that tells me they think they're dealing with demons is dealing with demons.
51:59
And I'd say 90 % of the people that I ever talked to at the hospital that thought they were demon -possessed were not demon -possessed legitimately, and were not dealing with that kind of stuff.
52:09
But I did run into a few. I did run into a few legitimately people who were into Satanism, people who were into the
52:16
New Age and communication with spirits and the demonic that did make contact. I was absolutely sure of it.
52:23
Absolutely, I've had contact with somebody who was demonically possessed, who engaged in this kind of behavior, was truly demonically possessed.
52:31
Pastor Luke knows about that experience. It was a literal hair -raising experience for me because there was true contact.
52:39
I've been in the presence of a truly demonically possessed person, and that person was freed from that demon.
52:46
So is it possible? Absolutely possible. But the scary thing is it's becoming popularized now, and guys that I actually really like to listen to,
52:54
Joe Rogan, not because I would agree with him because I think it's entertaining, he's popularizing this movement of people, take
53:00
DMT, communicate with the other side. And then Alex Jones, I mean, he loses his channel, he loses his platform, and now he's just come out and he's guns blazing.
53:10
He's like, no, it's aliens, and Nazis are communicating with aliens, and they're sharing information, and DMT, and government agents, and all this stuff.
53:18
I'll just give you a little bit more so you can get a little sampling of it. I never bought into this, looked into it. But then I began to think about what did I hear when I was a kid?
53:23
What did I see? What was coming out in government documents? What was being admitted when I read all these books about World War II and the
53:28
Nazis and Hitler obsessed with the Dalai Lama? Was he reading a lot of government documents when he was a kid? When he was a kid, right? He was reading the government documents and everything.
53:34
I mean, actually, maybe Alex Jones was. Maybe he was. The Tibetans and what they were able to do without drugs to interface with this, and all the rituals they would do, and how they were believed that beyond the ether, like at Skull and Bones, it's a
53:46
German death cult, they do rituals and take drugs to talk to the goddesses. Well, they're just appearing as sexy, beautiful women.
53:53
It's whatever you want as these spirit guides, because lower entities will come in and violate your free will.
54:00
God and his angels, which are below him, will not get involved in your everyday life.
54:06
They will not manipulate your free will unless you ask them in. The devil masquerades as an angel of light.
54:13
Listen to all this quoting of scripture. The devil masquerades as an angel of light. Do you see it? This is a whole religion and worldview.
54:21
It is. For people who would reject the spiritual notion of it and the supernatural notion of it, aliens are a great way for you to explain something outside of yourself that is more evolved and more intelligent than you, but that is still material and not immaterial.
54:45
For the atheists, there are plenty of atheists. I'm pretty sure Richard Dawkins has talked at length about aliens being real.
54:53
It's because it allows there to be some bigger force in the universe.
54:59
Some people even believe that they interact with our Earth to help our evolution be more efficient and stuff like that.
55:08
They believe that there is a benevolent force out in the universe, but they can't believe it's
55:15
God. Aliens is a good option for the materialists who can't have a bunch of supernatural things happening.
55:27
Let me just also say, as you guys get ready for the episode on cultish and theologians mashup, we're going to talk about aliens,
55:33
Bob Lazar, all this stuff. Also, just sort of a little teaser, my dad actually helped to build
55:40
Area 51. Oh, great. Now you've started it. Yes. That's it. That's all
55:45
I'm going to tell you. Now you're just part of it. That's all I'm going to tell you. I'm not saying there's anything about it in terms of aliens.
55:56
I'm saying that I am an alien. I'm saying that my dad was in the
56:01
Air Force. I was born in Las Vegas. We were there. He was working in logistics and those sorts of things, and it's a military installation.
56:08
He was a part of it. It was called Dreamland or whatever it was. Anyway, so we're going to talk about that when we do that podcast and episode.
56:17
So just get ready for that. Last thing. Speaking of nuttiness. Yes. Let's just keep it rolling.
56:24
Let's keep it rolling. So unfortunately, I'm going to share this just as a warning to people. There is a man who used to think he was a brother named
56:33
Sean McCraney. He has a show called Heart of the Matter. Many, many years ago, he said he came out of Mormonism to Christ.
56:41
He had a ministry to the Mormon community where he was trying to point them to Christ and the gospel.
56:47
Sean, actually early on in the history of Apologia, when he came out into town, he was doing some work. He came to one of our
56:53
Bible studies, and he taught a Bible study. I think it was actually a church service. No, it was a Bible study. It was Thursday night.
56:59
It was 2008, I believe, or 2009 that he did that, possibly. I think is when it was.
57:05
Maybe 2010. I can't even remember. That was really early on. Very early on, and that's when we thought he was a solid, reliable source.
57:10
We need to give a warning now. Sean McCraney has gone, and he denies the
57:16
Trinity now. So he is a heretic, and he also is a full preterist, which is,
57:21
I would say, one of the most dangerous heresies you could ever get into. I've seen full preterism destroy men's lives.
57:29
There were two people close to me that I knew that went into full preterism, and it destroyed their lives, theologically destroyed them, and then actually ethically destroyed them.
57:39
And I'm seeing the same pattern with Sean McCraney. It seems that full preterism will do that to you.
57:44
Not only is it theologically bonkers and not biblical, and it'll destroy you theologically and cause you questioning everything, and just abandoning the
57:55
Scriptures as the foundation, but it also destroys people ethically. I've seen that as a pattern now, and I think
58:00
I'm convinced of it, that full preterism will destroy you ethically. And I'm seeing that with Sean McCraney.
58:05
He went full preterist, and now he's just speaking foul language. He's cussing. He's just being nasty.
58:12
And so I wanted to just play just a little bit of Sean McCraney for you guys here, warn you, mark him out as a divisive, destructive, dangerous man at this point.
58:21
I'm happy to see that he doesn't get a lot of views any longer like he used to in terms of the content that he was putting out that I thought was beneficial.
58:29
And so this is him talking about the LDS conference review. We were at the LDS general conference recently.
58:37
He didn't mention us. His guy didn't see us, I suppose. But he mentions people that we were there with. He mentioned guys that we saw.
58:43
Now, I wanted to say ahead of time, the street screechers, I'm in full agreement. We at Apology are in full agreement against the street screechers.
58:51
These men are unloving. They're off -balance. They're rude and mean -spirited. We don't need to abandon sound theology to be dismissive of the street screechers and to say what they're doing isn't biblical, it's wrong, it's not loving, it's not consistent with what we see in our
59:08
New Testament. However, he talks about the street screechers, and then he talks about a friend of ours, Aaron, and I just wanted to play you, just to let you hear where this man goes.
59:16
...to go out and live and be what she wants to be between her and God and as Christians we're to love her.
59:22
So she goes around one -to -one and she gets to Aaron, that one guy who had his hand up, and she says to him,
59:29
I just want to tell you that Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ loves you. And Aaron says, which
59:35
Jesus? To this little old lady. By the way, warning, I wanted to give you guys a warning here.
59:42
I'm sorry. A warning, I don't have the ability right now to bleep out what he's going to say, so I'm just giving you a fair warning right now.
59:51
If you have kids in the room, those sorts of things, just know that there's going to be some cuss words here, some inappropriate language, so just a heads up and a forewarning.
59:59
Which Jesus? Now, does Aaron really believe that she is looking at him up on his soapbox, literally on a box, yelling at people, growing up in the church, following the
01:00:13
Mormon church the best she can, trying to understand Jesus, that at that moment, because he says, which
01:00:19
Jesus to her, she's going to convert to Aaron's ways? What's his purpose? What's his point?
01:00:26
Is he out there beating up old ladies because he can't really be in a regular fight? I mean, what's the deal with these guys?
01:00:33
So I have a question for you, Aaron. I want to know something about you and Rob and all you guys, you heroes down there picking on the
01:00:41
Mormons as they quietly go into their elaborate brick -and -mortar conference center. Is the
01:00:47
Jesus that you have, is he the one who causes you to malign people behind their back, online, relentlessly?
01:00:57
I mean, is that the Jesus who causes you to pick on a little old lady? I mean, does your
01:01:03
Jesus authorize you to be a dick in his name? Is that what your Jesus offers the world?
01:01:10
Isn't your Jesus, Aaron, the one who suffered for the sins of just a few people?
01:01:16
First of all, when you misrepresent the Reformed perspective on the atonement, you don't get any points.
01:01:23
You don't actually sound impressive, Sean, at all.
01:01:28
Actually, if you look in the book of Revelation, there is a multitude before the throne of God which no man can number.
01:01:34
So when you say a few people, you're misrepresenting even the Reformed position.
01:01:39
And again, Sean, it's not impressive. That's your Jesus, right? He didn't suffer for the sins of the whole world because you guys are
01:01:46
Calvinists, right? It's a limited atonement that Jesus gave. Which historically meant definite atonement.
01:01:55
Particular. Particular atonement. It was actually real. It was an atonement that accomplished something.
01:02:01
When Jesus died for the sins of his people, it meant something and it mattered. Nobody can actually receive that glorious benefit of the atonement and not be saved by it.
01:02:13
Yes, we deny that somebody can actually receive the blessing of the atonement and then still actually be condemned.
01:02:19
We deny that. Yes, absolutely. So it's particular. It's definite. You happen to be one of the elect, right?
01:02:26
You're one of the ones Jesus loved enough to die for. But the ones who don't accept your message are going to burn in an eternal flaming fire of hell.
01:02:36
Yes, reformed theology has not taught, never taught, that those who don't receive the message of Calvinism burn in hell.
01:02:44
It's those who are rebels and hostile towards God, that hate God, that are fallen short of God's glory, that love their sin, that God determines as a just judge to allow them to have their sin.
01:02:55
It's nothing to do with people who don't receive Aaron's Calvinism. They're going to burn in hell.
01:03:00
No, that's not the perspective. So here's the problem. When you misrepresent a position,
01:03:06
Sean, again, you get no points for that. It's not impressive to anybody. And so this is just the work of a really bad polemicist.
01:03:14
This isn't an exegete. This isn't a theologian. This isn't somebody faithful with the Scriptures. It's not someone that's consistent logically.
01:03:21
This is a really bad polemicist. Now, you might be able to be impressive, Sean, to the few people you have left standing there in your audience, while everybody, and I know this for a fact, people are leaving you in droves because they recognize your heresy.
01:03:35
You might still be impressing a few people left behind that are hanging around there, but you don't impress people who actually are impressed with the
01:03:42
Scriptures and care about actually learning what it says. This is just a really bad polemicist.
01:03:48
As predetermined before the earth was, no matter what they say or anything else,
01:03:53
Jesus didn't pick them, so they're going to burn forever in hell, but he picked you, and you're not.
01:04:00
Yeah, we believe that God has the freedom to be gracious and to save people, and he also has the freedom as a judge, as a righteous judge, to judge people.
01:04:10
Yes, we believe that. We also believe in the sovereign God that you reject, Sean, the sovereign God from the
01:04:15
Scriptures who declares the end from the beginning and does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, the
01:04:22
God who actually says he can tell you the future before it happens, and he can tell you the past and why it happened the way that he did.
01:04:28
That's not the God, Sean, that you represent or worship. The God of the Scriptures is the actual sovereign, not the
01:04:35
God that you are now teaching people. And you think the Mormons are going to come out and hear about that Jesus and accept it?
01:04:49
Isn't your Jesus co -eternal, co -equal, person that helped make up the nonsensical, non -biblical explanation of God?
01:04:56
More importantly, which Jesus... That's his denial of the trinity. This is more reprehensible, Aaron. Yours, as I just described it, or a
01:05:03
Mormon's, who certainly has some ontological problems in how they see him in his makeup and where he came from and things like that, but at least they're striving to be kind and to be loving and not pick on people.
01:05:19
Who do you think you are? Oh wait, I know who you think you are. I know who all you guys out there think you are.
01:05:25
You think you're the elect, and you think you have the right then to be jerks to people who are not.
01:05:32
He's a modalist now, right? I'm not sure where he is now, but I've heard some of that coming out of him for sure, but I'm not sure.
01:05:40
I honestly couldn't tell you. I would want to make sure I answer accurately. I couldn't tell you at this point. And for the record, we saw
01:05:46
Aaron out there, and he was not being a jerk. Aaron's one of the sweetest guys you'll ever meet. He was being very loving and caring and gracious.
01:05:52
Yeah, Aaron is super sweet, loving, kind, consistent. You're right, Pastor Luke. And as such, you really truly believe that you should go out and do
01:06:01
Jesus' dirty work. This is what you're doing, his dirty work. Listen. And he's going to be proud of you.
01:06:07
Like he said, they'll come in my day, and they'll think that they do God's work by killing other people. You have this mentality that that's what it's all about.
01:06:15
You're a guy who thinks his views of Jesus are superior to everybody else. You have the right
01:06:21
Jesus. No one else has the right Jesus. Only you, Aaron. Only you,
01:06:27
Screamer at—I can't remember his name— Rob Screamer at General Conferences. So what—just real fast.
01:06:34
What words would you—what words would Sean have here for, say, the Apostle Paul in 2
01:06:39
Corinthians 11, verses 3 and 4, where he talks about warning the church, and he's worried about them, that they're going to be deceived by the craftiness of Satan into believing another
01:06:49
Jesus, another spirit, another gospel. So would you have the same words, Sean, for the
01:06:54
Apostle Paul when he says that there's the true Jesus, and then there are these other Jesuses and other spirits and other gospels?
01:07:01
And he says to the church in Corinth, I'm worried that you might put up with them. You sound like the guy that would respond,
01:07:07
I will. When Paul says, I'm worried to the church that you're going to put up with these false Christs and false spirits and false gospels.
01:07:14
I'm worried that Sean would be the guy that would go, I'll put up with them. It's fine with me. You see, what word would you have for the
01:07:20
Apostle Paul when he actually has this stringent view of Jesus that he's like this? Or what would you say to the
01:07:25
Apostle John in his epistle where he tells the early Christians, if anyone comes and denies that Jesus has come in the flesh, they don't have
01:07:35
God. They don't know him. They are false. Don't even let him into your worship service.
01:07:40
What was that? That was the early beginnings of Gnosticism. Hey, Sean, do you know the Gnostics believed in Jesus? They did.
01:07:46
Was that a different Jesus worthy of condemnation? For John, it was. Sean, what would you say to John where he says that you don't even let him into your house, which is the worship service.
01:07:57
You don't even let him in. If anyone denies that Jesus took on flesh, that God took on flesh, hey, but they believed in Jesus.
01:08:04
It's just a little ontologically different, right, Sean? Or should we actually follow the testimony of the apostles and the revelation of God in scripture where we say, no,
01:08:14
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by him. But we have, through revelation, the very clear message that there are false
01:08:22
Christs, false messiahs, false gods. Don't follow them. Don't even let these false teachers who proclaim this false
01:08:28
Christ into your worship service, which is why, Sean, you wouldn't be allowed in ours.
01:08:35
Ministry called courageous Christians. I mean, that is a paradox if I've ever heard of one.
01:08:40
I want to see you be courageous, either of you guys, and come on this show. You won't do it.
01:08:46
Neither of you will do it because you know you will come off as the biggest pricks to ever walk in Jesus' shoes.
01:08:53
So come on the show. You'll go down and pick on people down at Temple Square. Come on the show and pick on me.
01:09:00
Let's have a real go -to -it with each other, right? You won't do it.
01:09:06
You won't because you're cowards. You've been cowards. You're protected by the law down there, and you have all your civil rights, and no one can infringe upon your freedom of speech, and then you can say whatever you want.
01:09:18
Do you know that when Gordon B. Hinckley's wife died, there's a guy I've tried to contact to come on the show.
01:09:24
He won't even respond. That guy stood out at Temple Square, and he went, Do you want to hear what
01:09:29
Gordon B. Hinckley's wife is saying right now in a loud speaker to the people at General Conference?
01:09:36
And he goes, Ah! Ah! Ah! This was a week after she died.
01:09:43
That doesn't sound like us at all. That was probably the street screecher. That's evil. That's evil and disgusting, and it's horrible.
01:09:50
Absolutely. You effers. Oh. You effers. You are so antithetical to what
01:09:57
Jesus was about. Now, I know I'm being antithetical too, but I'm talking to someone who's supposed to be my brother, someone who's supposed to love the
01:10:04
Lord like everybody else does. Which Lord? You guys are reprehensible. I wish the LDS Church could take a fire hose and blow you guys down the street once and for all and drown you in the sewer with your own messages of shitty cardboard signs.
01:10:20
Come up with something better at least. So there you go. You know, he can't be monetized on YouTube using language like that.
01:10:28
Maybe not. Nope. He cannot. Yeah. So I wanted to play that for you guys.
01:10:33
I apologize for the language. I just need to do my duty as a minister of the gospel and with the ability to be able to communicate this.
01:10:41
Shaw McCraney has lost it. He's denied the essentials of the faith, and I think that you can see there that when you get to where he is now, he's denying the
01:10:49
Trinity, he's denying the gospel in many ways, and he's embraced full preterism, which is the idea that Christ has returned, the resurrection of the dead has occurred, it happened in 70
01:11:01
AD, all this is over now, hell is gone, Satan is gone, resurrection over, done with.
01:11:07
That's full preterism. Now there's historic, orthodox, biblical partial preterism that teaches the judgment coming and return and judgment upon the first century covenant breakers of the
01:11:20
Jews in 70 AD. That's biblical, historic, orthodox perspective of the judgment of Christ in the first century.
01:11:28
However, full preterism says that all of it's done. Christ has returned for the final resurrection. It's all over and said and done with, and that's what
01:11:35
Sean embraces now, this heretical full preterism, a denial of the Trinity, and look what it's done.
01:11:42
All I want to say is this, listen, theology matters, and it leads to fruit, okay? So listen to his theology, listen to his eschatology, and now, brothers and sisters, look at his fruit.
01:11:51
Look at his fruit. Look what it produces. And I want to say, Sean, listen respectfully,
01:11:57
I pray that God caused you to repent from all this and that you come to Christ and you get free from all this, but I hope you can see that, you know, and don't make excuses for yourself.
01:12:05
Don't make excuses for yourself. When you see your behavior now, as opposed to what it once was, and say something like, when all these things don't matter, like look at the fruit,
01:12:15
Sean. Look at the fruit of your theology. Look at the fruit of what is produced in your life. Look what it's doing to your life.
01:12:21
I've been praying for you. I don't hate you. I care for you, but I also love God's truth and his church, and that's why people are being worn now against you.
01:12:30
All right, so there you go. Good show today, guys. Anything left you want to say, guys, before we finish up here? I don't think so.
01:12:37
Pray for Marcus. Yes. Pray for King Ginger. We're leaving out together to do one last mission together for the film, but pray for him over the next couple of months when he goes into his hole to produce
01:12:48
Babies of Murder here too. Pray that God uses that. Pray for my wife. Yeah, pray for Laura. Flat -earther wife.
01:12:54
We love you, Laura. I'm a flat -earther wife. Yeah, we love you. We love flat -earther Laura. And yes, so pray for us and all that God has for us before us.
01:13:04
Don't forget to sign up for Apologia All Access at apologiastudios .com. When you do, you make everything we do possible.
01:13:10
By the way, heads up. Speaking of General Conference, we were at General Conference.
01:13:16
We got content. We're going to be putting it up for you guys to all see, and the video of a conflict
01:13:21
I had with a man outside of the conference is, I think, just about done, and we may be dropping that this weekend so you guys get a chance to see that.
01:13:28
So be on the lookout for that. Joy the Girl. See you guys. Luke the Bear. Peace out. Marcus, King Ginger.