WWUTT 1735 Q&A Missing Bible Verses, Marrying the Right Person, Wild at Heart

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Acts 8 .37 and some of those other verses that have been cut out of modern translations, were they divinely inspired?

00:08

How do we know who to marry? And what's a good place to learn about biblical manhood and womanhood?

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The answer is when we understand the text. This is

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When We Understand The Text, a daily study of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those of us who are being saved, it is the power of God.

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Tell your friends about our ministry at www .wutt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

00:41

Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. How goes it today? It goes. We are blessed.

00:48

A pleasure to see you. What is this, two weeks in a row now? Yes. Surprisingly. We've had some sickness that we've been getting over.

00:55

You can still probably tell I'm a little congested. Yeah, a little bit. Little stuffy. Little.

01:00

What did you do? I preached on Psalm 52 last week. If I had to preach on Saturday, I would not have been able to do it.

01:10

No, not at all. I did not have a voice. I didn't have any strength.

01:16

I think I took like two naps during the day. Yeah. You did. I just came in the room and was like, hey,

01:21

I'm just going to sleep. Yeah. Our kids are still coughing a little bit.

01:28

Yeah. We got some coughs going on. But hopefully soon that'll be gone because they're sounding better.

01:34

That's good. Yeah. Much, much better. So I struggled through two sermons. I preached twice on Sunday.

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I taught Sunday school in between and I still had Sunday night as well. So I took a sick day on Monday.

01:49

Yeah. I just did not go in. Recoup your voice. That's right. I'm not going to talk to anybody. Just going to drink liquids and lay down.

01:59

Yeah. Water did good. So I'm preaching this weekend on Psalm 139. Awesome.

02:04

Yeah. That's what I'm working on right now. Looking forward to it. Pausing in my sermon prep to do a little podcasting.

02:12

And we are responding to questions from listeners as we tend to do on Friday. Yes. You can submit those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

02:20

Now, all but Thursday this week, it's been a week full of Q &As.

02:26

Oh, yeah. Because on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, I featured a Q &A that we did at our church in Kansas back in 2019.

02:34

I think that was it. January of 2019 when we finished up 2 Corinthians. Oh, yeah.

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So we were answering questions on 2 Corinthians and then other theology questions in addition to that.

02:46

Awesome. So I've noticed there was a bit of an uptick in some of those Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday listens.

02:53

Good. Because it had Q &A at the beginning of it. That makes people go, ooh, questions and answers.

03:00

But you can get questions answered any day of the week through the podcast, just through our general

03:07

Bible study that we do. Currently about to begin Galatians, and I'm going to do the sermon series that I did in Galatians a few years back.

03:16

Awesome. So that also was 2019, if I remember that right. So that starts on Monday.

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That's going to be our Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday study. Then I continue in Ecclesiastes on Thursday.

03:29

Nice. Until we're done with that, and then Song of Solomon. Nice. I'm still getting a couple of emails in there, folks asking, are you really going to do

03:36

Song of Solomon when we get done? Yes, I am. Yes, I'm doing Song of Solomon. Lord willing. Yeah, Lord willing.

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And it's not going to be the way that I've heard most studies of Song of Solomon done.

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There are people that will make jokes about it, because we're talking about intimacy between a husband and a wife.

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We're talking about sex, so to kind of relieve the awkwardness, we're going to make jokes.

04:05

But it's a serious book, and so we're going to take it seriously when we read it. It's not going to be joking.

04:11

Okay. I mean, there will probably be some funnies in there, that's just not going to be the approach to it.

04:17

Right. Because you've got to be reverent. That's right. Exactly. It's the word of God. Yes. It's a wonderful gift that God has given to be enjoyed between a husband and a wife.

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And that's what we're going to study when we open up Song of Solomon. Not just the intimate aspects of it as far as physical intimacy are concerned, but even the love and affection that a husband and a wife should have for one another all the time.

04:42

Yes. The intimacy goes deeper than just the physical affections. That's right. Right?

04:48

Of course. Amen, babe. Amen. Yes. Okay. I'm on board. Am I doing that okay?

04:55

Am I keeping up with that? All right. Good deal. Folks, I kiss my wife every day. Yep. Every single day.

05:01

True story. Even when I'm sick. Except when you're not there. Except when I'm not at home.

05:06

That's true. When you're away for a conference, it's a little tougher, but you know.

05:12

Yes. And thankfully, our infant son slobbering all over her has not made her go, hey, get your mouth away from me.

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Because I can see with that every day for a good while, I just want to be away from any sort of mouth germs.

05:30

Right. But you've put up with it through five children, babe. Yes. Five kids.

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Yes. And now five kids coughing towards me. Yes. That's right.

05:42

Hey, mom. Two weeks. Yes. It goes through our family so slowly.

05:49

It does. The more children we add, the slower, the longer diseases seem to be lasting in our household.

05:57

Yes. So here we go. Let's get to some questions here. All right. Let's. These have been pulled off of the email.

06:03

This first one is from Jason. He says, good afternoon to some of my favorite people. Aw.

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I especially like listening to your podcast with the Q &A portions. Aw. So there we go. Yep.

06:14

You see the Q &A letters in the title of the podcast. It just seems to automatically draw more people.

06:20

So I have a question, he says. Is Acts 837 inspired since early manuscripts do not contain the verse?

06:33

Sincerely, Jason. What is Acts 837? Do you know what story is going on there in Acts?

06:39

No. I don't remember. In Acts 8? Or what story is most known for in Acts 8? The conversion of Saul?

06:45

Well, okay. Yes. Yeah. That is actually what Acts 9 is most known for. That was not what

06:51

I. No, no, no, no. That's Acts 9. No. That's Acts 9. Oh. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yeah.

06:56

Now we're just thoroughly confused. Okay. That's Acts 9. Okay. I was getting that one right.

07:03

So at the beginning of Acts 8, Saul is mentioned there. So that's why

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I was thinking, oh, yeah, Saul is in that chapter. It's not. The conversion of Saul is in Chapter 9. Okay.

07:14

Check. So at the start of 8, he's persecuting the church. This was right after Stephen was stoned. You have the speech of Stephen in Chapter 7.

07:21

Okay. And then he becomes the first martyr. Uh -huh. And Saul is there at Stephen stoning.

07:28

Okay. He's the guy that's holding the coat so everybody can go and put Stephen to death. Oh, wow.

07:33

Because they believe that he's blaspheming God, but he's actually proclaiming the gospel. So then Saul begins persecuting the church, and that causes the church to begin to scatter.

07:42

The gospel begins to spread throughout the Roman Empire. But then you have the story of Philip.

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There's, of course, the story of Simon the Magician that's in there. But I'm thinking specifically of Philip and the

07:55

Ethiopian eunuch. Uh -huh. So the eunuch is traveling in his chariot. He's heading back to Ethiopia, but he has a scroll of Isaiah with him.

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And he's been reading Isaiah, and he doesn't understand it. And the Holy Spirit brings

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Philip to the eunuch. And Philip asks him, do you understand what it is that you are reading?

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And in verse 31, the eunuch says, how can I unless someone guides me?

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And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. And the passage of Scripture that he was reading was this.

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Like a sheep, he was led to the slaughter. And like a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opens not his mouth.

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In his humiliation, justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation?

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For his life is taken away from the earth. Who was the eunuch reading about in that passage in Isaiah?

08:51

Jesus. Jesus, of course. It's a prophecy concerning Christ. So the eunuch said to Philip, about whom,

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I ask you, does the prophet say this? About himself or about someone else?

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And so then Philip opened his mouth. And beginning with this Scripture, he told him the good news, the gospel about Jesus.

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And they were going along the road and they came to some water. And the eunuch said, see, here is water. What prevents me from being baptized?

09:21

Now, what do you see right after that question? What's after that question? He commands the chariot to stop.

09:28

No. Even before that. So after the question, but before he commanded the chariot to stop.

09:34

What do you see there? A question mark. After the question mark is some quotation marks.

09:41

After the quotation marks. Is the number five. I don't have anything.

09:48

Oh, you've got a footnote thing. What's after the number five? 38. There you go.

09:53

That's what I was gearing toward. Okay. Verse 38. But what was the verse right before 38?

10:00

Oh, I see what you're getting at. Yeah. It went from 36. To 38.

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To 38. Where did 37 go? Well, if you're reading it from an English standard version down in the footnotes down at the very bottom.

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Or my number five. That's what your number five was indicating. There you go. You can click on your number five.

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And it says that some manuscripts add all or most of verse 37.

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And Philip said, if you believe with all your heart, you may. And he replied, I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

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So, what's being filled in there is Philip asking the eunuch a question. Because the eunuch is asking, what prevents me from being baptized?

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Philip's answer is, if you believe with all your heart, you may be baptized. And the eunuch replies,

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I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. So, verse 38. He commanded the chariot to stop.

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And they both went down into the water. Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him. And when he came up out of the water, the spirit of the

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Lord carried Philip away. And the eunuch saw him no more and went on his way rejoicing.

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So, what's the deal with verse 37? Where did it go? Well, there are several verses in the

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Bible that modern English translations take out. In fact, it's about, what is it, 16?

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I think there are 16 verses total. Not counting the pericope adultery in John 8, which is the story of the woman getting caught in adultery.

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Because even the English Standard Version includes that passage, though it puts it in brackets. And the

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Mark and Appendix, which is at the end of Mark 16 from verses 9 to the end. Even the

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English Standard Version includes that, but it will have a little phrase in there. The earliest manuscripts do not contain verses 9 to the end of the chapter.

11:53

Right. So, those are still there. But what about these 16 verses that we have omitted from some of the most modern translations?

12:04

And they're all New Testament, by the way. Every single one of them are New Testament. Interesting. So, there's a few in Matthew, Mark, Luke.

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I can't remember if there's one in John. John 5, 3 through 4, probably. And then there's this one in Acts.

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There's a few in Acts, but this one, Acts 8, 37. Why is that omitted from the

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English Standard Version of the Bible? The ESV being one of those translations it's omitted from.

12:31

I don't have any idea. Well, it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts. Oh, okay. So, when we go back to the earliest manuscripts, these 16 verses that have been clipped from more modern translations, they're not in the earliest

12:45

Greek manuscripts that we have of the New Testament. What happened with Acts 8, 37 in particular, this verse doesn't show up in any manuscripts until about five or six hundred years after the

12:57

Book of Acts was written. Wow. That's a long time. So, that means that in the Byzantine manuscripts, there was some

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Byzantine scribe who got a little overzealous. And he decided that there needed to be something filling in.

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Like, theologically, it's not correct that the eunuch goes from asking, can

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I be baptized, and then Philip baptizing the eunuch. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like, where's the confession of faith?

13:24

Sure. There needs to be some sort of confession in there. Right. And so, this scribe, we call them, we tend to refer to them as overzealous, because they mean well, but they're adding to Scripture.

13:36

Right. So, he thinks that the Bible needs some help here, so not to lead a person into wrong thinking about confession and baptism.

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So, he inserts this note, this little extra to the narrative, that Philip told the eunuch, if you believe you may be baptized, and the eunuch responding,

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I do believe that Jesus is the Son of God. So, now we've got all those blanks filled in, we have this confession that is made, now he's ready to come down in the water and be baptized.

14:03

I gotcha. Another way this could have gone, and this is another way this gets explained with those 16 omitted verses, somewhere in the manuscripts, a scribe had written something in the margin, and this had probably been going on for several hundred years.

14:20

Sure. Almost like they're writing a study Bible. Right, yeah. So, they're putting study notes in the margins, and then as these manuscripts get copied and copied and copied, another scribe comes along and just takes the note that's over there, he sees the note, somebody writing in there this extra dialogue between Philip and the eunuch, and this scribe just brings it over, just carries it right over to the manuscript.

14:43

Copy and paste. That's right. Or cut and paste, rather. The old school cut and paste. That's what it was.

14:50

Carries it right over into that section and kind of fills out the rest. Sure. And so, then that gets in there for that long, and then when the

14:58

King James translators did the King James Bible, which they did from the Byzantine manuscripts, those extra verses, 16 of them in the

15:07

New Testament, all got copied into the King James Bible, so that now when you have a modern translation, like the

15:13

New American Standard, the English Standard, the Christian Standard, the Legacy Standard, that may omit those verses or put them down in the footnotes or even have something said in there like, this verse was not included in the earliest manuscripts, even that kind of editorial note.

15:33

Anything like that makes the King James only -ist go, look, they're removing parts of the

15:42

Bible. Which is not the case. None of the doctrine changes. The doctrine does not change when those verses get omitted.

15:50

In fact, it's biblical faithfulness that we want to be as original to what the original authors actually wrote.

15:58

Mm -hmm. Well, I was thinking that maybe it got changed because of, you know how a lot of that was word of mouth, so it was the stories that they would tell over and over.

16:08

And so, you know how telephone works, the game telephone. Right. And then kind of embellishes.

16:15

Now, when I was younger, that's the explanation I heard. Yeah. Because I had - That's the explanation I heard, too.

16:21

Right. But at the same time, I mean, it would make more sense for a scribe to add that from other scribes' notes.

16:27

Right. Now, in addition to that, that same explanation was also what I heard about the transmission of the

16:33

Gospels. So, like the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, weren't written until 30 years after Christ.

16:41

Okay. And so, you would have this game of telephone that would get played, and some of the things that would get written down in the

16:47

Gospels may not have been actually what Christ said or actually what he did.

16:53

Right. Like that was being said to me from a skeptical viewpoint. Maybe there are some errors in the four

16:59

Gospels, but it would have been because they wrote it down 30 years later. So, you can't expect them to remember everything and get it all accurate.

17:07

And so, up until that point, now the defense that I would hear then, the defense that I would get from my apologetic friends would be, well, they were more faithful to oral tradition than we are today.

17:19

No, the defense is it's God's Word. That's right. There you go. Right. It's inspired by the

17:24

Holy Spirit. Exactly. We know it's accurate because it comes from the Holy Spirit of God. But this is what my apologetic friends would say.

17:31

Are you okay there? I'm good. We're talking about coughing in the house. Catching up with me. That's right.

17:37

Sorry. It's caught you. It's coughed you now. Anyway, yeah. So, my apologetic friends would try to say, well, they were more faithful to the oral traditions back then.

17:47

They were better at it than we are now. You know, whatever it would happen to be. But yeah, you've already jumped to the actual answer.

17:54

No, that's right. That's good. It's the Holy Spirit. Yeah. That's how we can trust the accuracy of what is written there.

18:00

It's the inerrant Word of God. That's right. And even Christ speaking to His disciples in the upper room, saying to them that the

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Helper will come to you and He will teach you new things, things that Jesus had not yet taught to them, and will bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

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Yeah. So that we can trust that what is written down actually does come from God, not the mind of a man, although it is

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God working through men to write these things down. But as it's said in 2 Peter 1, it's the

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Holy Spirit through them to write what God wanted them to write down. So what we have in the four

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Gospels and in the whole Bible, but specifically the Gospels and in Acts is actually the

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Word of God. So anyway, that's the explanation with regard to that particular verse in Acts.

18:52

Now, the question that Jason had was this.

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Is Acts 8 .37 inspired? Is it Holy Spirit inspired?

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Since early manuscripts don't contain the verse. I would say no. Yeah, that's the correct answer.

19:10

Because it wasn't written in the first place. It wasn't written by Luke who wrote

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Acts in the first place. Now, that doesn't mean that the theology in Acts 8 .37

19:24

is wrong. Right, I would agree with that. Right. It's still correct theology to confess

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Christ and therefore be baptized as a symbol of that confession or as a confession of the confession if you think of it that way.

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So the baptism follows the confession. We are being baptized because we've made a profession of faith that we believe

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Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So that's accurate as far as Acts 8 .37 is concerned.

19:53

Yeah. It's just not Holy Spirit inspired. That particular phrase and verse doesn't belong in Acts 8 because it wasn't what the

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Holy Spirit gave Luke to write in that passage. Even though the theology may be correct, that doesn't give us the liberty to go, well, it's correct so I can just kind of add it in there.

20:13

Right, exactly. And that would be like the study notes like you were saying earlier. Yes. Use it for study notes.

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We can come into that truth elsewhere. And that's the way that it is with these other passages, the other verses that have been omitted from the

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New Testament. We don't have to include them back in there in order to get the truth that is being proclaimed in those passages.

20:37

There are other places that we can get it from. Right. And that's another thing with regard to the Mark in Appendix 2 in Mark 16.

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With the exception of the statement, they'll be able to drink poison and they won't be harmed by it.

20:49

Okay. It's talking about apostles. They'll be able to drink poison and won't be harmed by the poison.

20:56

There's another one in there about snake bites, but that might have to do with Paul on the island of Malta toward the end of Acts.

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That might have been where that came from. But otherwise, everything else that's said there by Christ in those last words closing out the

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Gospel of Mark in the Mark in Appendix, you can get all those words from other places in the

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New Testament. So you don't have to have the Mark in Appendix to really fill out Mark.

21:22

But that was, again, some scribe that decided, I don't really like the ending of Mark. It needs some help.

21:28

It's kind of a strange, you know, cold ending. So let's give it a better conclusion there.

21:35

And taking it upon himself to add that back in there, which all the theology is correct. Otherwise, with the exception of the whole poison thing.

21:45

But you're changing God's – you're adding to God's Word. Right. So, and that's not –

21:50

Which the Bible says not to do. Right, exactly. I mean, you're playing with fire when you do something like that. So, sorry.

21:56

I've got something on my tongue. I can't get a hair on my tongue or something. Your husband has a hairy tongue.

22:03

What can I say? I know, gross. Let's – That's twice. Two weeks in a row.

22:09

Two weeks in a row I said something gross. Oh, yeah. Last week was diarrhea of the mouth. Stop.

22:17

All right. Continuing on here with – Anyway, Jason, that was kind of a strange ending to that question, but there you go.

22:25

It was very odd. There's a conclusion to – Thanks for asking. This next one comes from Chris. Dear Gabe and Mrs.

22:31

Hughes, I was wondering your thoughts on how to choose a Christian woman to date, court, or get to know.

22:39

God has blessed me with good genes, and many women seem to be attracted to me. But how do

22:44

I know which one to pursue for marriage? Do I go with the one who talks the most in Bible studies?

22:52

That's a good question. Do I go with the one who I click with the best?

22:58

Do I go with the pastor's daughter? Thank you in advance, and God bless. I would say there's wisdom in many counselors.

23:06

Yes. Now, just because you've described those things, the gal who appears to be the smartest one in Bible study, one that you really have good chemistry with, the one who's the pastor's daughter,

23:16

I married a pastor's daughter, and that's gone pretty well for me. You're a little biased. I might be a little biased there.

23:24

I don't know. She didn't talk a whole lot in Bible studies. I didn't. In fact, she hardly talked at all.

23:30

Yep. That's true. You are not much of a talker. What's your story for that?

23:36

What's the reason for that? Because you kept talking. That's right. And it took me a minute to –

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Whenever I had something to say, I'm like, He's still going. Okay. I'll just listen.

23:48

I'm telling you, it was my radio days. Yes. You were filling in every blank. You cannot have dead air.

23:55

That's the discipline. There can't be dead air. I just thought you were excited about being around me and talking to me.

24:00

Well, I was. There was that, too. And to alleviate any awkwardness,

24:06

I'm going to fill in the dead air. Make sure that we keep the conversation going. And that's fine. I was okay with that.

24:13

So I didn't even know my wife could talk until after we got married. Yep. And then what was the other one?

24:20

The one in the middle. Do I go with the one I click with the best? Yeah. You got good chemistry with. Now, see, that's important. It is very important.

24:27

You shouldn't just marry because you're a single guy and she's a single gal. Right. There can be people that you match up with that you shouldn't be with.

24:38

And it could make for a pretty miserable marriage. Yeah. Even if they're a good guy or a good gal to consider for marriage.

24:48

Right. If it doesn't, there's just something extra there that needs to be there.

24:55

Right. It could be a godly man or a godly woman, but the two of you just don't match. Yeah. It just doesn't go well.

25:01

I mean, you do need to be mindful about those kinds of things. Sounds like we're getting into psychology, but no, it's like street smart stuff.

25:07

Yeah. And so this is where I would say you need to have some good counselors around you.

25:12

People who know you. And know the gals. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean by you.

25:18

The collective you. Oh, okay. You all. You're right. Y 'all. They know y 'all. That's why we in Texas have that word y 'all.

25:25

So it kind of encompasses the whole thing. So somebody who knows Chris, somebody who knows these gals that you might have your eye on, don't get full of yourself just because you are an attractive individual and girls do seem to be drawn to you.

25:41

I was not attractive when I was in high school and college, but I still had girls.

25:50

I see pictures of you and I think you're cute. Okay. Well, good. I'm glad. Anyway.

25:56

I was pretty clueless to it, to be frank. It's almost like I'll look back on a memory and go, oh my goodness, that girl liked me.

26:03

I get it now. Yeah, we were almost married and I think it finally clicked on who was flirting with you and who wasn't.

26:11

Oh, I was going to say it finally clicked that you like me. We're almost married. Hey, I think this girl likes me.

26:17

I don't know. Maybe. I finally figured it out.

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Anyway, so yeah, and there were even after we got married, Becky would pick up that there were women who were being flirtatious and I wouldn't get it.

26:35

Yeah. And so she was a good buffer to both warn me and fend off the wolves, if you pardon the expression there.

26:47

But yeah, so just because you might be attractive and there are women who are drawn to you, you need good accountability around you.

26:53

Don't get big headed about that. And then see, the other risk that you run there is stringing women along.

27:00

Right. Because you kind of like the attention and so you're stringing a bunch of gals along and you end up breaking hearts, which was the error that I made many times.

27:10

And so be careful about those things. Have some good counsel, some good guidance around you. You need to be willing to take the advice of people who know you and who know the girls.

27:20

And if there's somebody that you are interested in, find her friends.

27:26

Talk to her friends. Have your friends talk to her friends. Not doing the whole junior high, hey, will you go out with me thing.

27:32

He wants to know if you'll go out with him. Don't do that. But just to talk and get some ideas of what kind of a person she is.

27:40

Does she make a good impression but doesn't have a great personality or isn't really as kind as she might lead you to believe?

27:47

Yeah. There's also whenever we started dating, we would put it out front that we were dating to get married.

27:57

Yeah, from the very first date we were talking about that. And if it wasn't leading at any point, if it wasn't leading towards marriage, then we were going to call it off.

28:05

Right. Plain and simple. Yes. So that needs to be first and foremost as well.

28:12

Yeah, so you're not trying somebody out. Right. Although you do need to leave the door open for if there's some serious error here that I cannot, there's no way that this would work.

28:25

Then you need to be able to call it off or you even find out she may not even really be a Christian. That's what

28:30

I was going to say. Yeah, she knows how to talk the language. But then when it comes down to getting to know each other better, you find out she doesn't really truly believe what she says she believes.

28:41

So there are things like that that you might notice or might figure out. But again, these are also things that are easier to discover when you have other people around you, counselors who are able to give you their feedback and their advice and their counsel, people who know you and people who know the girls that you might be interested in.

29:01

Yeah. And that's a proverb, by the way, that comes from Proverbs. There is wisdom in many counselors.

29:08

Proverbs 15, 22. Plans fail for lack of counsel. But with many advisors, they succeed.

29:17

Yes. So if you want to succeed at finding a wife, have many counselors. Yes. All right.

29:23

One last question here. We'll finish up with this from Malcolm. Dear Pastor Gabe, I have a question about biblical manhood.

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First of all, what is it? Secondly, do I need to grow in it? And third, how would

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I do that? Do you have any books that you would recommend? I guess now I guess that's now a fourth question.

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So how about a fifth? Have you ever read the book Wild at Heart by John Eldredge? If so, what was your opinion of it?

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Thank you for your ministry. OK, so what is biblical manhood? Well, it's living as a man of God, according to what the

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Bible says that a man of God should be. Right. Very simple definition of biblical manhood.

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Biblical womanhood would then be living as a woman of God, according to what the Bible says a woman should be.

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Right. So some good places to start. I would recommend reading 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus.

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All three of those books would have good advice on what a biblical man and even a biblical woman should look like.

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And of course, the passage that we often talk about with regard to biblical womanhood is Proverbs 31. You say, secondly, do

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I need to grow in it? Yes. I think he answers his own question by the next question. So first of all, what is it?

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Secondly, do I need to grow in it? And third, how would I do that? Yeah. Because he says, how would I do that? OK. It's just automatically.

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Right. There you go. Yeah. OK. You followed the flow of thought better than I did there. Good job.

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Do you have any books that you would recommend on the subject? The only book, other than like a few,

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I guess like sections in some books on biblical manhood, there's only one book that I've read on biblical manhood and womanhood.

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And then there's other books I've read where that's been portions of the book, but wasn't necessarily the main focus of the book.

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Sure. Does that make sense? Yeah. So the one that I would recommend that I have read is from Kevin DeYoung, and it's called

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Men and Women in the Church. It's pretty short. It's under 200 pages, but it's got some good advice on biblical manhood and womanhood.

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It's like a primer. It's a really good place to get started. Now, there's another book that Kevin DeYoung recommends, and I've not read this one, but it is the book

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God's Design for Man and Woman, a Biblical Theology Survey, which is by Andreas Kostenberger and Margaret Kostenberger, husband and wife.

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Andreas is one of the teachers at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Okay. And so, anyway, there's another book from them.

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Now, again, I haven't read that one, but that's a good follow -up that Kevin DeYoung recommends. Given that I know

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Kostenberger is a professor and more geared toward like systematic theology, that might be a longer book. Ah, gotcha.

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So you'll want to start with the— Headier? Yeah, headier. There you go. Okay. That might be the case, too. So you might want to start with the

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DeYoung book. Now, you asked about John Eldredge's Wild at Heart. That is a silly book.

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I read that years ago. In fact, I've read two John Eldredge books.

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The Sacred Romance was the first one that I read, and then Wild at Heart. Now, we were talking a moment ago about having good counselors around you.

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My reading of those two books and my being convinced, or at least my attempt to convince myself that they were good books was because I had bad counselors around me at that particular time.

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My friends were reading these books, and there were girls that I knew that were reading these books or recommending them.

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And so to impress the girls, I read Sacred Romance. I'm going to learn about the

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Sacred Romance. So impressive. Yes, so that I can impress these girls. And it was a ridiculous book.

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From the get -go, I didn't like it, but I was convinced in my mind that it was good. Now, I don't remember it real well, because this was 20 years ago.

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I think the book came out in 2000, 2001. One of the other things that kind of encouraged me to read it was that I think

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John Eldredge was interviewed on Focus on the Family or something like that. And I trusted whatever was on Focus.

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So because he was on there, I was like, well, I'm going to read the Sacred Romance. Right. And then my friends in the –

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I was in college at the time, but the college groups that I was a part of, the Bible study groups, were reading the

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Sacred Romance and Wild at Heart. And so, hey, I'm going to read them, too. And they were ridiculous.

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Right from the beginning, I knew there was something wrong with it, but I was convincing myself, no, it's a good book, because all my friends like it.

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One of the biggest problems with the Sacred Romance is that it treats our relationship with God as being something – okay, just bear with me.

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But it treats our relationship with God as though it's something sexual. I mean, not that it actually is.

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Okay. Okay. Yeah, Becky's making a face. The sound that you hear right now behind me is the face that Becky's making.

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She's not saying mm -mm or okay or anything else. It's just a furrowed brow, a disgusted look in her eye.

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You're hearing the sound of Becky's facial expression. Or the non -sound of it, rather.

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But anyway, yeah, it was weird. I don't really know what else or how else to kind of characterize that, but it was the bizarre nature of how we're supposed to have a relationship with God, hence why it's the

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Sacred Romance. Like, we enjoy sex as husband and wife, but then you take that and you translate it into something spiritual, and that's the way our relationship's supposed to be with God.

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It just was bonkers. It was just too bizarre. And that was the

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Sacred Romance. I read that book first, and then the next book I read was

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Wild at Heart. Now, what's the problem with Wild at Heart? Well, like I said, this was 20 years ago.

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I couldn't remember everything about the book, so I went back to Tim Challey's review of the book to kind of refresh my memory.

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Okay. And so he has on here what some of the problems were with Wild at Heart. First of all,

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John Eldredge is an open theist, which is a heretical belief, incidentally. But it means that God doesn't know the future.

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Like, he deliberately or intentionally has decided he's not going to know what happens next, because then otherwise he's controlling of his creatures and he can't take free will away from us.

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So in the interest of our free will, God actually gives up something of his sovereignty. And so, therefore,

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Eldredge says things about, like, God takes risks. He took a risk with us. He takes a risk in making us.

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He puts himself out on the line to love us, even though we're going to reject him and all this other kind of thing, which is all open theism.

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It's all grounded in this idea that God does not know the decisions that we're going to make or what the future holds.

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He does not have all of time and space and everything in his hands.

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Right? Okay. That's what that would mean. Then he also has a view that everything is

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Satan's fault. Okay. So when we sin, it's not really we and our sinful nature that does it.

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It's because the devil made me do it. So then you don't need saved? I'm confused how that works.

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Well, yeah, a lot of this turns into very squishy, flowery theology.

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Yeah, definitely. In which even if he does talk about repenting and believing the gospel or something like that, which

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I don't remember that. But again, it's been 20 years. Even if he does mention something like that, it doesn't carry any weight.

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Yeah. Because God is just a loving God who would never do anything bad to you. And your sins are not really your fault.

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There are mistakes that have been wrought by circumstances or bad upbringing. Oh, and he also would teach that everybody's looking for God, which incidentally is a very mystic sort of a thing.

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And that's really a great way to characterize John Eldredge. He was a mystic. So just this idea that there's knowledge that we can know that's outside of the

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Bible that is every bit as authoritative as the Bible. Like their thing, almost like Gnosticism.

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Yeah. New knowledge that'll be revealed to us outside of the pages of Scripture. That's crazy. Yeah. For him to call himself a

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Christian. Yeah, exactly. Right. And so as a mystic, he believes that everybody's looking for God.

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Everything that you do is looking for God. There's the old, a good way to characterize this, there's a quote from G .K.

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Chesterton in which he said that every man who knocks on a brothel door is knocking because he is looking for God.

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Okay. I mean, that's just absolutely wrong. Every man who knocks on a brothel door is in rebellion against God.

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Yes. I just... These guys that were like Chesterton and even

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C .S. Lewis to a certain degree was like this. They believed that everybody is looking for God.

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Like Lewis had the whole God -shaped hole analogy. There's a God -shaped hole in all of us that we're all trying to fill with something else and the only thing that can fill it is

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God. But we're not looking for God. It's not true that we're looking for God. Right.

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Definitely not. That man by his nature is seeking after God. It says in Romans 3, 10 through 12, no one seeks for God.

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That's why we have to have the Holy Spirit. We're all in rebellion against God. None of us are oriented toward God unless the

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Holy Spirit regenerates our hearts and turns us in the direction of God. Exactly. That's the only way that happens.

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Anyway, Eldridge... We pretty much summed that up.

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That's what I was thinking. I'm like, where else can I go from there? I think that's pretty much it. What was his third question?

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The third question was how would I do that? How would I grow in biblical manhood? I recommended reading scripture.

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Surround yourself with some good Christian men. This goes back to the good counselors. You have good accountability with you.

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You have good men of God who likewise are reading scripture and wanting to grow as men of God according to what the

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Bible says. They will help you grow as men of God. It really is astonishing right now how often

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I am seeing men starting to take on feminine traits. Do you know what

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I'm talking about? Yes. There was a wedding that you and I went to a number of years ago, and there was a friend that I had that showed up at that wedding.

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Now, this was a married friend. He was a man married to a woman, but I had not talked to him in years.

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When he showed up at that wedding, I was astonished at how effeminate his language was.

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The way he talked, he talked like this, and it was a lot more feminine.

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He didn't do that before? There's a certain word I'm trying to avoid using. Right. Right. He did not talk that way before, but it became more effeminate in his speech.

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He was liberal. His politics were liberal. They were all leftists, so the more that he was absorbed in this leftism, which, of course, is very, very friendly toward the

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LGBTQ movement, gay men, the masculinity of women, things like that.

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Since his ideology was more invested in that, it was almost like that kind of thinking even changed his very demeanor.

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The way that he spoke words became kind of limp -wristed in his gestures and things like that.

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I'm seeing that happen with more and more men, and you need to be surrounded by good godly men who desire to be men of God according to what the

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Bible says. The more influence you have with men in the church, so we're talking about attending a good biblical church and surrounding yourself with godly guys, going to Bible studies together, worshiping the

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Lord together, of course, Sunday, going out and doing other things together, inviting those families over for dinner, going out to eat, talking theology late into the night, you know, whatever, if you're a single.

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As a married couple with kids, you're not able to do the late nights as much anymore.

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But anyway, like Becky right now, she's at the end of our time. Yep. I'm getting there.

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We recorded this on Thursday night, so we're at the conclusion of the strength that she's able to give to her day.

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Sorry. So anyway, yeah, having those kinds of conversations, being able to encourage and build one another up, just surrounding yourself with those kinds of people is going to grow you in biblical manhood in ways that you're not even consciously aware of it.

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Yeah, definitely. Stay away from the influence of the culture and be more influenced by godly men and women who you surround yourself by.

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Yes. I have not much to add to that, if anything.

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Yeah. You really don't have anything to add. Yeah, I pretty much don't. Yeah. I mean, there's things that are like floating through my head, but I'm like, yeah, that doesn't really need to be said.

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So you've pretty much covered it. All right. Well, I mean, we're at 45 minutes. Yeah. So we can wrap up right here or you can share what was on your mind and we can fill up the next...

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I don't know if I can stretch that. You've got something on your mind, but maybe not 15 minutes worth.

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Yeah. It was like little things, like make sure that you stay away from gossip and stay away from the things that...

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Is that more effeminate? Gossiping? No. Guys do, too. Well, sure. Guys are just as guilty.

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I don't know. That was just funny. That was your first thing. Stay away from gossip. Well, yeah. I mean, we should do that anyway.

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Yeah. But that's the thing, is that whenever you get together with a group of people, it tends to be like...

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What are you going to talk about? Yeah. You still fight the basic urges of sin and sinful nature.

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Right. So it's just... Yeah. Even when you get together as Christian brothers and sisters and encourage one another in the

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Lord, even in those things, you can gossip about the world.

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You know what I mean? Or unbelievers. Yeah. And just because they're unbelievers and just because they're living sinful lifestyles doesn't mean that we can say things about them that are dishonest.

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Right. Or think worse of them than the behaviors they're exhibiting.

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Unless the conversation is moving in the direction of how can we reach this person? Exactly. How can we share the gospel with them?

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Yeah. How can we reach out to them? How can we show them that what they're doing is sin?

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They don't think it's sin, but how do we show them that it's sin? Yeah. So that they may see the gospel of Christ and be saved.

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Yeah. And then you don't always have to talk about theology when you get together. You can talk about other things.

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What? Life. But, yeah. I'm just saying, we have a lot of fun.

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Yeah, we do. But I think we talk about either – if we're not talking about our day, we're talking about theology most of the time.

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That's true. Or things with the house. Yeah. Hey, there's another thing.

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You can talk about good construction projects. You know, it really is – I had no interest in construction at all before I got married.

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Yep. And then it was when I became a homeowner, then it became a thing of like, well, we got stuff around the house that needs done.

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Yeah. Who's going to do it? I've got to do it. I've got to learn how to do this. And so, there were some things that my dad taught me growing up, but then there were other things.

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I mean, I just had to learn as I went. Yeah. And I managed to become a decent carpenter.

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Yes. Could not have even assembled a birdhouse before Becky and I got together. And now

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I'm building tables and shelves and all different kinds of things. Yeah. I love it. What did

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I just finish? Oh, yeah. The shelf in the living room. That was what I did. Yeah. So, anyway, working with your hands,

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I think that's an important thing for all men to do to some degree. Work with your hands.

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This is such an automated culture. Yes. That we're losing a sense of importance with manual labor.

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I mean, those things are important. Learning how to do basic tasks just to keep up the house, serve your spouse, or play with your kids.

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You know, any of those things. Or teaching your kids even those skills. So, find something that you can do with your hands.

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It doesn't have to be building or carpentry. It could be working on the car. It could be learning to hunt and fish.

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Yeah. Something like that. But find something to do with your hands. I spend most of my day in front of a computer.

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Yeah. It's just hands, but not in the same way. Yeah, not in the same way. I mean, I've got to do the writing that I do or working on the podcast or videos or something like.

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So, I'm mostly in front of a computer. But I'm thankful that I have some jobs that I've learned how to do that I can do manual labor.

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And I get my son out in front. Or, yeah, get him away from his video games. Yes. So, he's got to come outside and help me.

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And the kids love coming out and helping me. They do. Even the girls. Yeah. It's not a chore to tell them, hey, get off the video games and come out.

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They're not whining about it. They're coming out. They want to help. They want me to give them something to do. Yes. But you have to be proactive in those things.

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They don't just happen automatically. Right. Just because we're men doesn't mean we just automatically want to go tear a tree down with our bare hands.

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Speaking of which. The instruction that Paul gave to Timothy was to grow as a man of God.

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Be a workman approved who rightly handles the word of truth and has no need to be ashamed.

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And then going with what Becky said in 2 Timothy 2 .16, but avoid irreverent babble for it will lead into more and more ungodliness.

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And their talk spreads like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus who have swerved from the truth.

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Yeah. And see, that's what I was concerned about is that whenever you get together, you have to fight those urges.

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Keep each other in check. Yeah. You can still behave like the world even when you're with brothers and sisters in the

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Lord. Exactly. If we don't have minds that are focused on Christ.

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So Paul goes on to say with Timothy verse 22. So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the

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Lord from a pure heart. And have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies.

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You know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.

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God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will.

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Good advice for all of us, man or woman. Yes. Well, thanks, babe. I think we filled out a little more time.

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Good. I haven't quite gotten to the one -hour mark, but we're past the 50 -minute barrier there.

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All right. Glad I could put in two cents. Well, if you have any other questions that you want to submit to the program, you can email them to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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We are on the road next week. We're in the air, actually. Yeah.

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Yeah. I'm going to be in Alaska speaking at a church up there. And Becky and I are going to spend some time in the great up north.

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Yes. Not great white north. Not this year. Time of year. Who was that listener a few weeks ago, corrected us, made sure we understood.

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There's not snow on the ground there right now. Right. So it's not the great white north. It's just the great up there.

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The last frontier. Don't they call it the last frontier? I think so. Yeah. The great frontier.

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All that comes to mind is north to Alaska. Where it's cooler than where we are here in Texas.

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Much cooler. We're going to get some cooler temperatures up there. All right. So send those emails.

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So I don't know what's going to happen with next week. I'm either going to record it way early. Maybe Becky will be on with me.

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She might miss the next couple. Yeah. But yeah, just to let you know, you can still submit your questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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And God willing, we'll be back on with you next week. Yes. Let's finish with prayer. Yes, let's.

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Heavenly Father, we thank you for our time together. And I pray that we would desire to grow as men and women of God.

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It says in Genesis 127 that we were made in your image, male and female.

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He created them. And so as you have appointed us to be either a man of God or a woman of God, may we know what that means and live according to what your word says about manhood and womanhood.

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We encourage one another in these things. For when we live as we were created to be, not trying to be other than what we were made as, then we do this in honor and in the glory of the

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Lord. We do all things to the glory of Christ and to his name. And may we take the name of Christ to the world so that those who are walking in sin and in rebellion against God may hear the good news of Jesus Christ and turn from sin to the

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Lord and be saved. Cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Help us to live godly, upright lives in these present days.