MCTS

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white. And good morning. Welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday Morning.

Glad to be back here if ever so briefly here in in Phoenix, Arizona. I will not be able to do a program on Thursday as I will be traveling pretty much all day long and Will probably still be in a vehicle somewhere at least I hope not at the normal Thursday time.

Because I I'm flying into Birmingham, but the debate is in Jackson. So I got a drive. I don't know how long that is. I'm not sure who's taking me. Somebody is but I was looking the map going. Why didn't I fly into Jackson and out of I don't know but anyway I will be in Jackson, Mississippi right across the street from RTS on Thursday evening for a debate on on The bondage of the will versus the freedom the will not like we've ever debated that subject ever before in the past.

So it will be brand new. No one's ever thought of having a debate on this subject at all but we're gonna be doing Thursday night and Every generation has to revisit that especially our generation where there's just so much Emphasis upon the abilities of man the capacity of man it's not very popular to talk about the inabilities of man and the incapacities of man, but certainly the Bible does and Then Friday and Saturday the Deep South founders conference and Sunday.

I'll be back in Birmingham for the church services there, I guess to I won the morning then I guess there's probably I think it's one of the morning service Fellowship meal afternoon service things and then straight to the airport.

And I have a a whopping 43 minutes between when my flight is supposed to arrive in Charlotte and leave for Phoenix. I'm not feeling real comfortable about that. Even my little flight tracker program Has put that in red.

It says you sure about this. So I'm not putting anything in my check luggage that I want to have within two days. Because I just Not feeling overly confident about that one. I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure everything It's important to be is is with me because I have a feeling I'll be seeing my luggage at a later date.

Anyways, that's what's coming up this week. And so those of you in the Deep South will be looking forward to spending some time with with y 'all and Come back talking like that probably and So then have just a few weeks at home and then off to London as well had a Tremendous time at the Midwest Center for Theological Studies.

Sam Waldron is the Dean there. Richard Barsalas One of the guys does a lot of the work and I found out that some of you may remember many moons ago that I had Richard and Sam on the program. I'm gonna have him on again sometime in the next couple of weeks a couple months and Found out that there was a fellow in the service that was listening I believe over in Korea to the dividing line when I had them on the program and his name is Michael Amati and So shortly after the time around the program all of a sudden he starts contacting Richard and Sam he ends up going to MCTS and Finding a wife there in Owensboro.

So when I got to speak Sunday night Barsalas starts by we call him Barsaloo. He he starts off by introducing me as saying that James White is responsible for such-and-such a grandchild. Now, let me explain why that is.

And then he tells the story about how this program Led to someone going to the school and then they got married and and the whole nine yards. So I thought that was pretty cool. And mr. Amati was taking the class via was online so he was one of the online folks in the module and evidently is gonna be looking at possibly heading down to New Orleans and Studying textual criticism down there, which would be great the CN TTS Center down there and And that would be we need all the believing.

We need many more believing textual critics because we've got plenty of unbelieving textual critics. Already and they're already dragging that field off into non island as it is. So the more folks we can send in there the the better.

But it was You know as a year ago that I was teaching at Golden Gate in in Mill Valley. So To get to teach again this time from CTS to have excellent students with excellent questions. Always attentive attentive to what I was I was saying.

We covered the New Atheism the foundations of apologetics Roman Catholicism Mormonism and then seven lectures. No, no five lectures for about seven and a half hours on On Islam and then spoke at Heritage Baptist Church there in Owensboro.

And did a the fastest Islam presentation. I think I've ever done. Sunday night it was it was Just rattling it off, but everyone seemed to enjoy it. Anyway, so a great time with my Reformed Baptist Brethren back there in that area and I very much look forward.

I want to come back. So everybody needs to send emails to Richard Bristow. Richard Bristow us at the MCTS and say I would love to take The class that James White wants to teach from CTS. What I want to what I want to do is I would want to do a module class on the the writing collation canonization and transmission of the text of New Testament for the first 400 years which would include discussing not only canon issues but textual critical issues the early manuscripts the papyri the great unseals and a discussion of the Gnostic Gospels and the the apocryphal Gospels that were not Included in the canon because that's not even a proper term to use included in the canon sounds like well They were sort of left off to one side.

That's not what happened. But we all know this is the playground of Bart Ehrman and the radical critics and this is what our young people are getting hit with upside one up one side and down back down the other and So I have suggested that class and I am rabble-rousing to get other people to suggest.

So So I'm just I'm just being very open about that and hey Richard teaches the Greek class for MCTS. So he should he should be cranking out plenty of students. It would be especially interested in a in a class like that but so anyways I'm looking forward to getting a chance to go back there to stay with the Barons where I stayed this past week.

They were very very kind to me and We had lots of fun even though even though Joe Baron eventually, I Shouldn't mention this but I'm going to nice because everybody in the church knows about Such a nice lady, but she she went out of town figured I'd be gone when she got back.

She didn't realize I was actually gonna be staying through Sunday night and then leaving Monday morning. And so she left this little nice note on the whiteboard at the in the on the kitchen and It you know thanked me for coming and you'll come again and then there was a verse that that she put on on the whiteboard and I remember coming into channel and Typing this verse and having our Bible bought post it and she put Luke 11 24 Which says when the unclean spirit goes out of a man It passes through waterless places seeking rest and not finding any it says I'll return to my house from which I came.

And I'm I'm looking at this verse. I went back downstairs double-check. I had the right one. And yeah, it's it's Luke 11 24 and I'm just I'm going. Okay. All right, so I'm the demon and if I come back Is that the idea that if I come back then I'm the demon re-inhabiting the house or I've been kicked out of the house.

Or what's the idea? So brother baron? Brother baron came down and I said could you did I offend somebody? Could you explain this to me? And he says I don't understand he looks at it and goes over and opens his Bible and he Starts reading the verse and he just starts cackling just just laughing like anything so finally he he texted Joe and said What's this all about?

And he showed me the text response and it was like oops. Did I write 24? So I have a picture of her standing next to the whiteboard with her pen and we've they've marked out 24 and put 28 Which was blessed as he who hears the Word of God and does it which is what she was trying to put.

But you've got to be very careful with your references. Or you're going to tell your houseguest that you think they're a demon that's being kicked out of there. You you pop that up and I'm picturing, you know The old World War two things that they would scribble on the walls when they were at Kilroy was here.

Yeah, I'm picturing that picture and it says Troy was here. Well, let's not give Troy any any ideas here and so I I had to tell him the story and I hope you don't. You folks don't mind my telling you this story, but I I was Staff assistant for Harold Greene at North Phoenix Baptist Church for a while and Harold Greene was the associate pastor.

North Phoenix is huge church 20 ,000 members. And and so he did a lot of pastoral stuff he he was the guy that did a lot of the hospital visitations and all that kind of stuff and He would send out, you know, if someone was gonna be in the hospital for all he'd send him a card I mean he'd go visit too, but also send him a card something to brighten their day and.

And he would often put the same Reference into the card. It was Nahum one seven. Not right pain. Many people have seen Nahum one seven. But and neither has our Bible bought evidently. One-seven because it's going what is that?

Oh, I need it. I need a reference to it. Duh NAS Nahum one Seven there we go. Now now the Bible bottle go. Okay, fine I do not understand your request. There it is. I Found the KJV evidently there is no newborn standard version.

There it is the Lord is good a stronghold in the day of trouble and he knows those who take refuge in him and. So that's a nice little verse to put in cards to send out to people and and and stuff like that so one day there is a little old lady who had had been ill and so he Put you know, he sent her a card and she got better and She came back to church and she comes up to pastor green and she goes Pastor green did I offend you in some way and he's like, well, no, honey.

Why would you say that? Well because the card you sent me well, well, what do what do you mean? Well the Bible verse in it and He said well Nahum one seven. The Lord is good. No, no pastor green. That's not what you put.

You put Nahum two seven and Nahum two seven which she then looked up in her Bible says it is fixed. She is stripped. She is carried away and her handmaids are moaning like the sound of doves beating on their breasts.

Can you imagine sending I get well card to some Hospital and then you put the reverends name to seven well. The first lesson of the dividing line today is check your references or you will send. You will send poor little low ladies in the hospital into depression and also tell your house guests that once you leave.

You're gonna feel like the house has had demons kicked out of. You got it you got to be careful of your of your references. So Anyways, we had a great time back there and and and poor Joe Baron is going to be living that one down for a long long time.

So but that'll be something we'll always get a laugh out of so I think that's great eight seven seven seven five three three three four one eight seven seven seven five three three four one. I assume we have Skype up today as well dividing that line at Skype is The address there.

So oh, yes, and and why are you bringing up my favorite Old Testament verse? Yeah, I think the King James version of first Chronicles 26 18 is just a that's that is a great verse at Parbar Westward for at the causeway and to at Parbar yeah, I think that's.

And it's only it only really works in the King James because the New American Standard smooths it out too much. But at at Parbar westward for at the causeway and to at Parbar almost sounds like you're speaking tongues if you say fast enough.

But you're all you're doing is quoting first Chronicles 26 18 and I think I introduced you that because I know who I got it From I got that from the youth minister at at North Phoenix and so anyway, eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the Number you can tell we are rushing to get to particular things today.

Actually, we have a phone call coming and I think I may might just stretch until the phone call gets in because I do want to look at a text, but I I do like to work with our our Callers as well and don't want necessarily keep them sitting on the line forever but when we when we get through our first call and Look at the text.

I'm gonna be looking at Galatians chapter Five if you would like to maybe get your Bible out or as many people today will do fire up your Olive tree or whatever else. If you had an an iPhone or an iPad touch iPhone, I'll try it again.

I pod touch I will mention one thing I don't think I mentioned this on the last program but right before I went out of town last time right at the end of the year Accordance released its iPad and iPhone and iPod touch Program its app as they call it and it is Wonderful.

I used it to preach from on a Sunday morning and It is really really really really really nice. I will highly recommend it to everyone if you have accordance, obviously and If you don't the one thing that's given me and I still unfortunately Do not have Old Testament textual critical Information for On my on my electronic devices either on my touch or on my iPad.

That's the one place where when I go into a Television studio or a radio studio or a debate I've wanted for years to have in my hand everything I needed right there Without having to have a big old honking Hebrew text or a big old honking Greek text or anything like that.

Some of you may recall I've told the story before when I was on KTK K in Salt Lake City I was walking out of my luxurious hotel room. They called motel 6 and I looked down I saw my my Biblia Hebraica stucartense.

I had this this I still have the red leather-bound one actually, I I actually thought I had lost that one, but I do have it and I Almost didn't bring it but I stuffed it into my book bag and almost made the book bag impossible to carry.

But I stuffed it in there and that was the time I was on that marathon four-hour program and in the last half hour bill from Provo called and Bill from Provo was talking about a textual variant in Deuteronomy 32.

And if I hadn't had my Biblia Hebraica stucartense with me It would have been pretty tough to respond to a bill from Provo was saying we found out weeks later bill from Provo was William Hamblin of Brigham Young University one of Mormonism's Leading apologists, but I had the text with me and I had the textual data with me.

So I was able to give a response well That's the one thing I still don't have I now have thanks to the fact. I have a cordons on my iPad accordance Accordance and logos neither one have been able to convince The folks who own the Nessie Allen text or the Biblia Hebraica stucartense a text we can we have the text.

We just can't have the notes. We can't have the textual data. It's just not available. They have not been able to get that contract done and I keep hoping that someday they will but for now, it ain't it ain't happening and So now with accordance I have the CN TTS material up and and available and It's via logos I have the gutting in septic and Which would be very slow to look things up in but it's pretty extensive and I believe that's available.

I haven't downloaded all that to my iPad. I I was silly. I went and bought a 32 gig iPad not thinking That it was going to be nearly the Every trip used constantly thing that it's turned out to be I'm sort of hoping that when they come up with the new Version of the iPad which is supposed to be out what in April, I think That they will have minimally 64 gig versions if not even larger and so.

But anyways, I've got a 64 gig iPod touch anyhow, and so I need to download all the the guttings and stuff to that but be that as it may I Could at least have the septogen textual critical stuff, which might address most of the Hebrew issues.

But I still don't have the the Hebrew textual data, and I'm not sure of any any way of getting that for a while, but Mainly people are asking about variations in the New Testament. So at least I can handle that I can get that stuff now.

So that's gonna be that's gonna be neat. So we will We will Look forward to someday having all our textual critical data right there on the screen. Just like I have in front of me right now I have my my main workspace up in accordance on one of the three computer screens in front of me and I have the ESV.

I have the Greek New Testament of the any 27 with the textual data of the any T. And then down below I have the any T notes any 27 apparatus and the Metzger textual commentary. I'm not sure why I have the King James over in this one side.

Normally I have CN TTS over there. But I must have changed it at some point for some reason I'm not sure why maybe I was looking something up because someone had Asked about it. I don't know but Be that as it may.

That's what is sitting in front of me right now. So someday I think we'll be able to do the same thing. You can't really do that with an iPod touch. So there's just not enough real estate on that screen.

But an iPad you can't an iPad you can have two two texts up and still have the fonts huge enough to have sitting on a on a podium in front of you on a Pulpit in front of you and still see it even with eyes that are getting close to 50 years of age like mine.

So Yeah, Turretin fan says it's a sign. He has the King James up. Not really guys you really don't need to go there. It's just not gonna happen, let's let's go ahead and bring up the CN TTS apparatus here.

And then we put it up like it's that there now I've got the CN TTS apparatus up and that's I just it's it's incredible what you can do today. Even though I'm excited about this kind of stuff, but I'll be honest with you I also always keep thinking to whom much is given much required.

Like Wow, what could what could Calvin have done with something like this? I don't know what Calvin would have done with something like this. He probably would have been way too distracted by all the details to actually do much with it.

But I think that's the way. All right, eight seven seven seven five three three four ones. Let's go ahead and talk with Dwayne in Missouri. Hi Dwayne. Yeah. Yes, I am. I Don't have any particular position.

I I don't know. It's even a political issue. It's We we know that there are people who will complain about anything. Obviously Most places would not allow for the distribution of my book on homosexuality or something like that if it was in an electronic format I suppose You know the issues of censorship and Freedom of the flow of information and everything else.

I don't have any particular answers to how that's to be handled. It's it seems ridiculous to me given the stuff that That Apple allows in the App Store That they would give into a tiny minority that would complain about the Manhattan Declaration.

Of course, I Think the Manhattan Declaration I certainly haven't signed it and would not for the reasons that I have enunciated very clearly when it first came out. That is that it's a compromises on the gospel but here you even have a Document that is not as as biblically sound as it should be.

But the fact that it addresses issues of homosexuality and the propriety of marriage of man and woman Gets it booted out of the out of the App Store. It's a it's been a pretty amazing thing on that level and I don't have anything against somebody contacting Apple and saying hey What what in the world are you doing?

Yeah, you're taking a stand against the very positions that I hold but the same time there are there are Only certain numbers of avenues of getting information and computer programming and stuff today and I I'm very hesitant to hand authority over to governmental groups to try to Either do censorship or anything else because I don't trust them as far as I could throw them and So I don't know what the answer is.

I think it's perfectly fine to let Apple know you think they're being idiots, but I don't know what the answer is. Well the the the product works and I was I was a PC guy for from the time PCs came out and There's the I am thankful that Vista came out and threw me out of the PC realm because Vista didn't work.

This is all there's to it. I mean I'm not the only one that came to that conclusion when a computer does not do the same thing each time you tell to do something it's busted and So I had to find a computer that would work every time I turned it on wherever I was and Vista couldn't do that.

And so I found a computer that did but it's just a matter of what works and what works regularly and what can take a beating and and keep working and That's all there is to it. Well What the depravity of man came from our our union with with Adam?

He is our first. Yes. Uh-huh. Okay, my logical thought if all of mankind was in Christ Then that would be the case. That's the argument of universalism. Yes, of course all of mankind isn't in Christ.

So that's why universalism is universalism is not true. Yeah, but the analogy is not in time be in Christ a second because that would require you to be a Universalist. Romans 5 does not say all of mankind is in Christ.

It says those who are in him and you're only in him by faith so That would be the answer to the question all of mankind is an Adam and Receives from Adam the only thing they can receive from Adam, which is a fallen nature.

But not all of mankind is in Christ only those who believe in Christ are in him. There are obviously those who continue in their rebellion and in their love of their sin and who are not the objects of God's grace.

So there are two humanities those who are in Adam and those who are in Christ all who are in Christ. We're initially in Adam. We are all sons of disobedience even as the rest as Paul says in Ephesians 2 but the whole point of Romans 5 is to explain why you have these two humanities and why you have Those who are in Christ and those who are not and why we receive from Christ what we can what only we can receive from him.

While those who remain in Adam receive from him only what they can receive from him. Neither neither, you know, I would never express it that way because the New Testament doesn't ultimately God is the one who chooses who he is going to be gracious to in drawing them to Jesus Christ.

But I think reformed people need to be very careful that you not express yourself in terms The New Testament doesn't use. Because I have believed in Jesus Christ. God didn't believe in Jesus Christ for me.

Yes, he had to give me a new nature he had to even grant me the gift of faith, but that doesn't mean that I'm just a wooden board. That takes out all of the Of the personal element of the work of the Holy Spirit in the spirit of man.

It takes out the personal element of the renewing of the mind of the creation of a new nature all these things are very very personal and they're very very important and so while the Identity of the elect and hence the identity of those who receive God's justice Certainly is a part of the divine decree of God.

Everything else which includes the personal working of the Holy Spirit of God in a person's life and my decisions and my actions are also a part of that decree and it is a I think tragic leveling out of that decree to a black-and-white One-dimensional thing if we do not recognize that there is so much more to it than that the the language that is used of the resurrection of the person from spiritual death and and the giving of new life and recreation and the pictures used in the New Covenant in regards to taking out a heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh and All these things show us just how intensely personal and how important those aspects are so I would never use that kind of terminology even if on a You know a real simplistic Logical statement you could say well, you know, it all goes back to God's decree.

Yeah, but God's decree includes everything else including the means that he used to draw me to himself and the the changing of my heart and the the love of My heart for Christ and and the reality of my faith.

I believe in Christ. Just because we say that I could not do that savingly without God's grace. Enabling me to do so does not change the reality of my faith in Christ and so I think it's I think sometimes especially I Hear this with from some of our Younger reformed friends that we we we call those who are in the cage stage.

There's such an emphasis one direction that there's a loss of balance and we need to be very careful to be balanced in our presentation because certainly those who oppose reformed theology Will not be balanced in their characterizations of us.

So we have to be very careful to provide the balance of that ourselves. I. It's Well the The answer is we do not have we do not we do not determine the identity of the elect. We do not determine the identity of the reprobate.

God determines all of those things and like I said, that is all a part of God's divine decree as well as is the reality of the work of the Holy Spirit in the renewing of the mind as Is the nature of saving faith as is repentance as is all the means To the end that God has decreed for himself and only by flattening out that decree into a simplistic linear line can we Come to the conclusions that the enemies of reformed faith do and that is that we're just puppets and marionettes on a string.

So it is it's like looking at a diamond from only one side and saying well, this is all it is without Refusing to be able to look at it in his full order beauty. It is there is much more to it than what you can see from any one perspective and the one perspective that God's decree determines everything is one perspective but included in that is that it includes his providential actions within time his interaction with us his His entering into time in the person of Jesus Christ the entirety of the gospel the preaching of the gospel the building of the church the work of the Holy Spirit the means of grace the preaching all of these things are a part of that decree and So to to flatten all of that out and say well God just decreases good saving who doesn't Ignores, you know, it leads to the error of equal ultimacy at least all sorts of errors that need to be refuted because the Bible is far richer than a One-dimensional flattened out.

Well, this is all there is to it type thing. When you say well, I can't help with if people have false impressions I can only I can only speak the truth and let's. You know if they want to come up with a false impression that only takes a part of what I'm saying.

You know the Potter's freedom wasn't ten pages long. It was 300 pages long. So I can't I that's that I have to leave up the Holy Spirit and when I hear people say well you gave me the impression. It's you know what your response before God for the Word of God.

I can point you to it I can preach it to you. I can show you how it's consistent with self. But if people want to take that and come up with a false impression and and blame me for it I can't stop them, but I'm also not gonna worry much about it either because it's not my responsibility if I speak the truth Speak it clearly.

I leave it to the Holy Spirit to make application from there and I can't I can't worry too much about that. I have so many times talked about God decreeing the ends as well as the means and have attempted to be balanced and yet people like David Allen and others Continue to lie about me.

I leave that to God, you know, I I correct it I put the truth out there if if they if they insist on on misrepresenting me. They they stand before their own Lord. There's nothing I can do about it. I just move on from there one last helpful comment I've worked my way through the Potter's free 99 To me and which was not nearly as much fun to read as the Potter's freedom.

Sure, but it seems to me that One thing I write it down into the Armenians are prime. Well. That there is no question that there is a a commonality to the threads of presentation. I Really really doubt there's going to be anything Thursday night that people have not heard before on the bondage of the will and the freedom of the will for example, right?

I mean anybody who's listened to me knows which text I'm going to be going to how I'm going to present them. I have not been able to find anything from my opponent anywhere on this subject that makes me a little bit nervous.

I like to listen to what my opponent has to say know where they're coming from that helps the debates be a lot better. I have not been able to find anything. So I'm I'm a little bit concerned about that, but I'll do my best anyways and and yeah, but I really think that Okay, the Potter's freedom would have had one particular bent to it because it's Norm Geisler and Norm Geisler is unique in where he's coming from on some of these things but The big three a math 2337 first first time the two four a second beer three nine I've dealt with them.

We've dealt with the with the why does God Call people to repent if he's not going to grant faith there, but you know, we've we've actually I think you know If you put together what I've written and scrolls written and Piper's written and and other people I think we have Looked at pretty much every I don't hear new objections very often, right?

So I think we have Yeah, and every every generation has to redo it and I think the reason that every generation has to redo it is not is Is a partly in our context we don't know anything about church history.

So I don't know these things have been debated before but Secondly language changes the parameters change the emphases change and so each generation, you know In in 20, you know 20 years from now There's going to be some 30 year old fellow Who's just a kid right now?

That's gonna come out with a book on this subject and it's gonna rock the world because The parameters of the discussion and the language that's used to express it not the essence of it. But the those things will have changed.

Because I look back and I see some books from generations gone by that were huge at the time. And they were very useful at the time. They're very needful at the time. They don't speak as clearly today as they did that's one of the things that's always been amazing to me about Calvin's Institutes.

They seem to speak to every generation and and that's just a an ability of writing. That's that's that's beyond me, but I Think that's one of the reasons each generation has to struggle with it you can't just simply go back and look at look at the look at the nation's that were Calvinistic at one time and Fell into the trap of thinking.

Well, we've got all figured out and we don't need to We don't need to be Very passionately presenting this to our children and passionately defending these things. It's all been laid out. Here's the here's the systematic theology.

Just believe it. You know a lot of those nations are some of the most godless nations there are today because you you cannot just simply codify something it has to be something that is the result of the Spirit of God in people's hearts and You can have the truth and take it for granted and unfortunately We we see a lot of examples of that in our in our in history, especially over in Europe today.

So so I think it's what we got to do. But anyways, hey Dwayne. Thanks for your call. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Another thing that this week that I know I went I blew right past the break didn't I?

Oh that. And I've mentioned this before. Yeah, it's it's one of the reasons that I wish my wife could go with me to a lot of these things not that she'd want to sit through hour-long lectures on Islamic theology.

Or you'd get a chance to go to some of these things. I'm looking through the mirror mirror the window here. It's rich but When I when I do debates when I go these things how many young guys? And older folks too.

It's it's a broad spectrum, but it especially strikes me when younger guys Will come up and you know, they're in seminary because of what we've done over the past, you know, 25 years. They've made major life decisions about ministry because of what we've done.

This even this program Books that you know the Potter's freedom, you know, may I publicly thank Norman Geisel for having written chosen but free. Because that one book has produced more Calvinist than any other book I can think of it really has and I know it wasn't his intention, but When you when you when you write a book that it was just that completely off beam in its argumentation.

That's exegesis. Well, I Had the opportunity of responding to it. I did it people were shocked and amazed That anyone would do that, but I felt it needed to be done and the result has been absolutely Fantastic and so You look at those things.

It's incredibly encouraging. Let me just say to those those young men that this past week told me about You know how this ministry has impacted them. First of all, you made me feel very old. Because sometimes they'd make reference to things that happened and you start realizing that was a decade ago.