Pastor vs. Mormon Missionaries (Amazing Conversation)

Apologia Studios

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:10

How long have y 'all been part of the church? Um, whole life. Whole life? Where are you from? Montana. Montana. Never been there.

00:17

You're from America? It is. Have you been here through the summer yet? I have, yeah. Does that feel like hell?

00:23

A little bit. Yeah? I've been here two years. It was very hot. So, how long have you been on the mission?

00:29

Um, about eight months. So, we got here in August. Yeah, so. Got here at the same time. Oh, cool. Okay, so which one is the, I don't know how they do it.

00:35

We actually came out at the same time. Gotcha. Yeah, so. Okay. Same, same time out. Awesome. Well, I would love to have a chat with you.

00:41

Have you had a chance to look into the doctrines that God says of himself in Isaiah, for example, where he says in Isaiah 43, 10, there were no gods before, none formed after, and he doesn't even know of any other gods, and then we look at, and we're not here because we hate you, we love you.

00:54

We want everyone to have a true faith in Christ. Yeah. And then Prophet Smith says in the King Paul Discourse, I don't know if you guys went through, the ladies went through that at all, but imagine and suppose that God was

01:04

God from all eternity, but I will refute that idea, take back the veil so you can see, you must learn to become gods yourselves as all gods have done before you.

01:11

Like, how do we reconcile, how do you reconcile on mission the idea that when we look at God's inspired word in Isaiah, he says of himself, none before, none after,

01:21

I don't even know of another, and then Prophet Smith says, actually some before, many after, and you can become gods or goddesses yourself one day.

01:31

Is that something you sisters have had a chance to think about or pray about? Look into? Yeah, definitely. How would you, how would you tell me,

01:38

I don't hate you guys, but how would you tell me, like with genuine questions, how do you reconcile those two statements?

01:43

They seem so contradictory, I don't know how they can both be true. Yeah, we just believe that through Jesus Christ we can all become perfected one day.

01:51

Does that mean becoming a god? Yeah. We believe as children of God that we have the potential to become like him.

01:58

We all have the potential to become like our parents, and so as we're children of him, we have the potential to become like him.

02:03

So I know that you definitely are taught that, and I know that's part of your training and your teachings, but God said, like Eric said,

02:10

God said, long before Joseph came along before me there was no god form, neither shall there be after me.

02:16

I'm the first, I'm the last. Joseph didn't believe either of those things. He believed that there were many gods before God, and you can become one one day.

02:23

And the reason why it matters, sisters, is God says in Deuteronomy 13, 1 through 4, he actually gives a test of a prophet.

02:29

And it's not prayer, because our hearts can deceive us. The heart is deceitful above all things, and sick beyond cure.

02:35

Who can know it? That's what Jeremiah says. The test of a prophet is if he leads you after other gods, gods which you have not known.

02:42

In other words, different than God's revealed. That's how you know he's a false prophet. Or if he has false prophecies, even one.

02:49

Joseph had many false prophecies. He said Christ was going to return within 56 years. He said that he was going to be in the priest's office until Christ returned.

02:56

He said that they were going to build a temple in Jackson County before they all passed away. He said the coming of Christ was going to be like the sun rising and destroying all the earth, before they all died.

03:09

And so Joseph Smith fails the test of a prophet in leading you after a different god, and he had false prophecies.

03:16

So that's what's important, is if God says you will not become a god after him, what would you say to him?

03:25

I don't know. I believe that I will. He says you won't, though. But he doesn't say that to you.

03:32

So my wife's at home with five of our kids right now, right? One in the belly, beautiful thing. We know from God's word very clearly that I can't go have an affair with another woman.

03:43

I have a wife, a lovely wife. If I was to say to you, hey, I prayed, I spoke to Heavenly Father, and I've got this really good feeling,

03:52

I've got this strong burning that he's told me that I can go have another wife, I can go sleep with someone else.

03:57

I think on your mission you would both go, no, here's what God says, here's what Heavenly Father says in his word.

04:04

So regardless of what I prayed and what I felt, it can't be true because it contradicts what

04:11

God has already spoken. Do you both believe that God can't lie, for example? Yeah, we also believe that he speaks to us through our living prophets, and we believe that Joseph Smith was one of those prophets.

04:21

And we recognize that you guys don't, and that's okay. Like he said, we love you guys, too. I know in the missionary training center that you ladies are taught, and I'm not trying to be rude, but one of the training things is if you're presented with a tough question, to bear your testimony.

04:35

And I know that you have a strong testimony. I'm not saying that you haven't had a real experience, but the question is when we stand before the everlasting

04:43

God, the one who was before everything, the one that created everything, the Jesus that created everything, and he says,

04:48

I told you very specifically, here's the truth, how do you answer him with something that is an obvious contradiction?

04:57

Tell him I did my best, because that's what I'm trying to do. That's all we can do, right? And then sometimes it's a little different for each of us, and I don't think that we're going to come to any conclusion here right now, but we're grateful for all the things that you guys are trying to do.

05:09

Well, can I just say one more thing to you? I really appreciate you staying. I want to just say I commend you. I truly commend you.

05:16

Missionaries, if you guys came to our church, we would love to come out and engage with you and have a conversation, but we're mostly ignored by missionaries, and so I commend you ladies so much for the courage to be able to stand and the love that it takes to stand and talk to us.

05:27

You mentioned one last thing I'll just say is it's kind of the key issue. We don't just believe that Scripture teaches a different God.

05:34

Like, for example, you believe Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers. It says in John 1 and Colossians 1, just remember those,

05:41

John 1, Colossians 1, that Jesus created Lucifer and everything in existence. So according to Scripture, he's not his brother.

05:48

Jesus existed from all eternity and made everything. That's a different Christ. It's a Christ who can't save.

05:54

Like if I call him Christ right now and I worshipped him, you'd probably stop me because that's not the real

05:59

Christ, even though I'm calling him Jesus Christ. So a false Christ can't save any of us. But you mentioned something that's a pivotal issue.

06:08

You said, well, I've done my best. That's the issue. Joseph Smith also distorted the gospel itself and grace itself, whereas the gospel says that God, he credits to you righteousness apart from works, and he does not count your sins against you, and it's through faith and faith alone in Christ, apart from works of law, apart from doing your best, because my best is a filthy rag before God.

06:34

That's what the Bible says. That's how holy God is and how sinful we are. My very best today is a filthy rag before God outside of Jesus.

06:42

So the glory of the gospel I want you ladies to hear about is this. Christ offers himself with a perfect righteousness and a death that pays for sin in full, and he conquers that death by rising from the dead, and this is the key issue.

06:54

None of us, our best won't avail before God because he's too holy. We deserve judgment.

07:00

Christ's righteousness is given to you as a gift in full through faith apart from any works.

07:07

It is eternal life. It is a righteousness that is not your own. It comes from God. Jesus of this organization has no righteousness to give to you because he doesn't exist, and I know that might sound offensive, but I say it out of love to you.

07:22

But what you and I need is a righteousness that will avail before a holy God, and that's only available in Christ, and it's only available as a gift.

07:29

Paul says, and this is truly the last thing I'm going to say to you, if you attempt to try to mix grace plus works to be better and be right before God, Christ has become of no benefit to you.

07:43

Whosoever of you attempts to be justified by law, by your obedience, by your goodness, you've fallen from grace.

07:51

The gospel is grace, mercy, peace as a gift through faith in Christ alone.

07:57

I know that they teach you that it's through obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel that you'll be saved.

08:03

Paul says, by grace you've been saved through faith and not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not according to works, lest any man should boast.

08:10

We're telling you about the eternal Christ, God himself in the flesh, who always existed with the Father. We're telling you about the gospel of peace.

08:17

I pray that you'd come to know it. And I commend you for standing here and talking to us.