- 00:00
- Was it Jerry? Yeah, that's correct. Jerry, what would you like to share? Yeah, this is a subject that's very dear to my heart.
- 00:06
- Right. And I did used to believe very similar along the lines to, you know, the guys on the panel.
- 00:13
- Especially the guy, sorry, I forgot his name. Dr. James White, you're thinking of? Yeah. Okay.
- 00:21
- But I'm thinking of, right now, I'm thinking of the scripture of 1 Timothy 4. Right. Verse 9 to 11, it basically says, a faithful saying that's worthy of all welcome is that we rely on the living
- 00:32
- God, who is the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers.
- 00:38
- It does not say solely of believers. It says especially of believers.
- 00:44
- Right. Okay, but He is the Savior of all mankind. And I believe the only way that we can actually reconcile all these things concerning God's sovereignty, concerning His choice, concerning the election, is believers are the special chosen portion.
- 01:01
- They are the firstborn sons. They are the firstfruits of a new creation. But at the end of the day, all things will be reconciled back to God.
- 01:11
- Even the second death that's mentioned in Revelation, even the second death has to be done away with in the end, because Paul says in 1
- 01:19
- Corinthians 15 that death will have to be abolished. It will have to be done away with in every form whatsoever, because that is why
- 01:27
- Christ came to die. I know you will say this may be classic universalism, but I do believe that the scriptures do teach, back in the original languages,
- 01:37
- I believe that they do teach without a doubt that ultimately, all will be saved in the ultimate plan of God.
- 01:43
- It's the only way to reconcile His love, His grace, and His sovereignty. It's the only way.
- 01:49
- There's no way that a loving father, that Christ went through, is then going to burn people in hell forever.
- 01:55
- That's just awful. Jerry, let me stop you there if I can. And if you don't mind, if you just listen offline, because we've got other callers that want to come in.
- 02:02
- But Tony, let me come back to you there. It was Jerry who used that expression, universalism. Is that from a scripture, such a thing as universalism?
- 02:11
- Well, there are one or two passages which, taken out of context, could be taken that way. I mean,
- 02:16
- I suppose an obvious one would be, as in Adam all died, so in Christ will all be made alive. And if you just took that one verse, you might say, ah,
- 02:24
- Paul's teaching that all eventually will be made alive. But if you look at the wider context, he's so clear in other places that it's those who respond, those who accept, those who believe, who will be made alive.
- 02:36
- And that's where I think the meaning is here. It is the saviour of all people, so it's there for everybody, but it's especially those who believe, because those who believe are the ones who receive it, benefit from it.
- 02:49
- And although, as I say, there are some passages which, a few passages which, taken out of the context of the rest, could seem to point to everybody, there is so much, especially in the teaching of Jesus, about the two ways.
- 03:01
- There's the broad way where many are going and the narrow way, and it doesn't say they all lead to the same place in the end.
- 03:07
- I can see Dr. James is dying to come in, but Edward, let me come back to you. Universalism, all can be saved, yes?
- 03:14
- Well, it is the will of God that all will be saved. But I want to point out that the issue about hellfire was not something that God decided that man should go there.
- 03:27
- It was specially created for the devil and his angels. And so there is nothing like God's will wanting everybody, because the
- 03:37
- Bible says in the book of 2 Peter 3, verse 8, it says the Lord is not slack, as some men count slackness, but he wants all to come into repentance.
- 03:47
- And so that is the will of God. Man now makes a choice. He goes and makes a choice which takes him to the other way, just like he was saying that there are two ways.
- 03:59
- Jesus said something in the book of John 14, verse 6, he says he's the only way, the truth and the life.
- 04:04
- He's not forcing anybody to choose him. But when you make that choice, the consequences are spelled out.
- 04:10
- If you decide to go the other way, well, that is a choice. And I've kept saying that anybody that finds himself in hell is simply trespassing.
- 04:19
- It's not something that God destined for your life. He wants everybody to come to him.
- 04:25
- That is his will, that all will be saved. But it's not everybody that will be saved. Okay. I can see that Dr.
