I Get Mail, Geisler Sermon Continued

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Comments are disabled.

00:12

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line

00:19

The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence

00:27

Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church This is a live program and we invite your participation.

00:37

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 460 to or toll -free across the

00:43

United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 And now with today's topic here is

00:50

James White And welcome to the dividing line those of you who were here an hour early

00:57

What can I say I'm not gonna do that. We've we've discussed the time zone issue many times before I think we lost our last ally there didn't we the folks in Indiana or Illinois, whichever one it was

01:06

I think they finally gave up and gave into the pressure Hawaii I'm not sure.

01:12

I don't know. I don't think Hawaii does. Oh, well, whatever they would have no reason to for obvious reasons, but yes, we stand firm against the the heresy of playing with time and so Now everybody in the mountain time zone has gotten back with us, which is where the truth is

01:32

So here we are on on the violin before we get started today I wanted to Acknowledge let you know what it's like to be an apologist

01:45

I recently our chat channel attracts some some very interesting people and do the nature of chat channel type stuff

01:58

People can actually come in multiple times from different connections and and things like that And sometimes people pretend to be things that are really not we actually had a guy

02:07

That pretended to be a pastor once remember and he was actually sort of like living in his Mother's garage or something over his mother's garage or something like that.

02:15

So we've had some interesting stuff So we have this one poor soul that comes into our chat channel now it's interesting because this person has multiple personality disorder and So one of the multiples comes in claiming to live in Canada and the other claims to live in Georgia and it's amazing because I've heard both of them speak and it is psychology of multiple personality disorders fascinating because the one

02:39

Sounds just like she's right out of the movie deliverance and the other one says yeah

02:45

So it's it's amazing how these these these personality disorders work.

02:50

Well this this person when I When I travel they they start talking about things that I need to have with me when

02:59

I when I travel and Start talking about things that they're sticking into into my

03:05

Into my luggage that of course TSA agents would find to be quite interesting if I were to actually have these things

03:12

In my luggage. So today two packages Came from this person to the offices here and I I just want to let you know what people send me

03:22

First of all, we have a Elmo Container was this but this be like a kid's cereal container you think and inside it is a

03:31

Canada key So there's the the Elmo thing there and then this one we will have fun with later wacky string blue 250 feet of wacky string is that Canadian silly string?

03:45

Yeah, I bet you it is. That's down here. It's probably called silly string and then there's some sugar plum

03:50

These are actually very nice smelling holiday candles here Well, we'll actually get some get some use out of those and then there's a

03:56

Toronto maple leafs washcloth which I'm not sure would actually make you clean or not, but and as a

04:04

Van camps chicken of the sea chunk like tuna in water that will definitely get used I I like tuna and then we both rich and are happy about the serving tongs

04:14

That came because we need these we've we've needed these for a long time in our in our break room And then there's a a mini whisk and dust pan, which actually

04:25

I think again, there might be some some use for that There's some hand sanitizer.

04:31

Everybody needs hand sanitizer these days. There is a can of Evaporated milk.

04:36

I'm not really sure that one's ever get used Other than to throw it people or something like that.

04:42

I don't know but that that's that's probably not gonna happen This actually is useful funnels.

04:47

You never have a funnel when you need a funnel there's all sorts of things we could use funnels for and so we've got a we've got a

04:56

Plastic we've got some crayons and a candy necklace My my maybe my daughter would like that even though she's just about 21, but who knows

05:07

This is just the first box 12 regular lids for all regular Mason home canning jars

05:13

Do you have any need for anything? Don't do that at home? Oh, okay Then there's the

05:19

Mason's the May No, no, no. No, it's a different thing. It's different thing. Then we have some shoelaces

05:27

With fish on them one pair of sonic laces not summer. I bet would actually like those

05:32

I think those are definitely going to summer Shower cap, which is something I really need shower caps are very very important.

05:39

I carry shower caps everywhere I go 24 birthday candles it does not look like they're the kind that stay lit though Those are the fun ones.

05:47

Those are those are fun. There is a Oh a ring pop, you know those big huge things You put on your ring

05:54

Yeah, about ten years ago Matt used to get those all about ten years ago. Okay. Well, that's saying

05:59

He's probably not gonna be interested in that one. No, okay There is a dinosaurs a coloring book here

06:09

I'm I'm done with the first one here. Oh my goodness a life -size stuff -a -santa That's it's six feet tall, which is impressive

06:17

I gotta start putting stuff over on the floor over here an air freshener Black ice.

06:23

What is black? I black ice. Why would someone from Canada even want something? It says black ice black ice is dangerous, isn't it?

06:29

I'm gonna put that down there. It smells like tire tread What is this? Says it's made in China.

06:38

I Guess they're some type of candle type thing. Oh, it's a salt -and -pepper shaker.

06:44

I'm sorry They're salt and pepper shakers made in China, but they look like Pine cones or something.

06:50

I don't know Let's see here Jokes and oh, it's a whoopee cushion

06:57

That's great. I've never had one of those before Oh Some whiteout now, there's something that we really really do need a lot of around here is is whiteout

07:11

Because they actually still make that stuff with laser printers and everything it's whiteout correction fluid. Yeah quick -dry

07:17

So, you know, did you summer bought a typewriter recently on eBay? Just simply just simply to have a typewriter and then

07:24

Wolverine 100 Wolverine stickers now that might go over big too That you know, that might be good.

07:31

That's the first one Let's see a second second one here This looks like is this a kazoo?

07:37

This isn't a kazoo because this actually is this called a recorder? Yeah, isn't this it was buck 25 they didn't take the thing off here.

07:46

Oh, yeah, it's a recorder I'm sorry flute well

07:52

Recorder makes like an accordion sound you sure? Yes, it has buttons on the side and you have batteries in it

07:58

Oh, yeah, that's not a that's not a recorder A wait a minute.

08:04

It says right here recorder fingering chart. I was right I've got five party favor bouncing balls

08:19

There are two Now I'm not sure this this could not have come from Canada because there are two feathers in here and I'm sure it's probably illegal

08:26

To export a Canadian feather out of Canada is undoubtedly. I'm sure illegal

08:32

Now this I actually could get some use out of this is a a green and black striped

08:38

Hoodie not not a hoodie. I mean, it's a cap, you know winter cap and then there are two look like they're yell their orange and black striped warm socks and They they look like they'd be very useful.

08:51

Well, you got the phones ringing. Yeah, I I'm almost done. Let's see.

08:57

There's a there's a Disney phone charm I don't know what this is, but it has it looks like came from a little kid or something

09:10

Natural modeling clay Well, what about Natural modeling it and it's heavy.

09:17

That's that's natural modeling clay. There's some hot tamales. Do you like hot tamales? You don't like hot tamales Well, they're they're hot tamales running out of places here

09:27

Oh This was oh this was rich and I agreed this was something you really need here in Phoenix lock the icer

09:36

Lock the icer. That's what that's I've I've wanted to carry that in my car

09:42

It'll probably melt the heat There is a actually a very nice silver spoon.

09:48

I mean, it's it's a regular. It's a hefty good silver spoon right there That'll be really cool.

09:55

And then there's a laser finger beams Word -of -the -day calendar. I'm hurrying up here.

10:02

Oh Vinyl electric insulating tape we actually could use that around here Oh a a bag a bag tag

10:13

It's a luggage bag tag that says no, it's not yours Right on it big orange went.

10:19

No, it's not yours. I will use that I will put that on my bag for my trip this weekend to New York for those in the

10:24

New York area here is a a orange Dinosaur plastic dinosaur thing my cats.

10:33

I think might like that almost there Plant food spikes actually the cactus could might might like these don't you think let's think the cactus might like those.

10:44

Okay plant food spikes Anything else in here? Oh, yes, there's some Christmas decorations.

10:49

And the last thing is a mobile mobile phone portable phone, but it's a fake

10:58

But it does make sounds that's exactly what everybody needs is a Phone that makes sounds but actually no one's calling.

11:06

That's that that's great. That's wonderful The preceding portion of the dividing line does not necessarily represent the views of the staff or management of Alpha Omega ministries

11:21

See the thing is everyone listening right now knows I could not have made any of this up that that I actually did receive two boxes in the mail today and There is a complete catalog

11:33

Of everything that is in there So, there you go That's um, yeah,

11:40

I can't wait to see Dave Armstrong's post about this show. Yeah Now normally what comes in the mail is ouch extremely useful, you know the ministry resource list

11:51

Has been just a tremendous blessing and then we get stuff like this And so I just you know, I just think though that that maybe this poor this poor person with the multiple personality disorder

12:02

Maybe this will help them to heal to hear this and to realize that they've they've reached out and touched someone outside of their small confined little world in that mental institution wherever they are that they have net access at so There you go

12:17

I'm absolutely serious. That is actually what came in the mail this morning And I just thought

12:22

I'd share that all with you and spent 12 minutes to do that. Sorry about that. Oh Well before we get

12:29

I'm sorry. Is there something I'm missing here? Oh The disclaimer. Yes.

12:34

Well, that's probably a good thing to do Well, I'll take this call because I don't have a clue what in the world it's about but I'll go ahead and take this call

12:44

Let's talk with Russ. Hi Russ How you doing And it's always a day or so after the program

12:58

I can't wait to hear this one Yeah, neither can we

13:06

But I have a son -in -law who was teaching a Bible study in his church and the pastor had given him a book on prayer by Dutch seats and Endorsed by Peter Wagner and all this good stuff.

13:23

And as he got into it, he finally said he couldn't teach that and Because the pastor endorsed it so heavily they finally left the church

13:34

Now I understand Peter Wagner was a teacher at your old alma mater there for a number of times

13:40

You mean Fuller? What? You mean Fuller? Yes. Yes and I Don't know anything about Peter Wagner, I'll be pretty honest with you

13:54

I did all my work in the Phoenix extension, which thankfully meant that I had primarily conservative people that were drawn from the the institutions and schools and in the area, so I Don't know who

14:08

Peter Wagner is He made an apostle out of Todd Bentley who was of some fame

14:15

Oh, well, there you go and anybody who would think Todd Bentley has anything to do with the movement of the

14:20

Spirit of God is Rather suspect at that point, but I don't keep one thing in mind

14:28

Endorsements of books does not Sometimes it means someone read the book and sometimes it doesn't so I Don't care who that is that the good folks the bad folks.

14:41

It doesn't matter don't really Endorsements don't necessarily mean a whole lot

14:47

You can tell by the endorsement itself whether it was really an in -depth reading or whether it's just a quick review.

14:53

So you know, but the whole idea of New Age Apostles and anything having to do with Todd Bentley would be enough to Turn me off, but I don't know anything about this particular book.

15:05

So I'm Really can't make much of a comment on it because I've never looked at it. So I have no idea what to say about it well,

15:12

I've been listening to your discussion on the debate on justification that you

15:18

Had last week. I've had to go through it about four times and then I have to get your book on justification that would already have your book on Trinity on the

15:28

Trinity and One of your other books, but I have to get that justification book to fully understand what is going on there

15:36

Well, good. Good. I hopefully it'll be useful to you Russ. I appreciate your listening and I'm glad you can listen today

15:42

Cuz we're on at the right time Thanks a lot. God bless. Bye -bye 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number for the program today?

15:52

I didn't really expect much in way of calls today simply because it's that day and historically when the time changes we lose half of everybody and they're gonna be listening on the podcast because That's just the way

16:05

It works, but that's why I queued up and want to try to make some progress today We're a little bit over halfway through with the

16:13

Norman Geisler sermon, which we began in June of this year And every time

16:20

I say as we laugh and then don't get back to it because Phone calls or whatever else it might be but just again a reminder

16:29

This weekend. I will be in New York. We have the debate Saturday night

16:34

The information is on the beautiful green banner that Hasim son of Ramallah king of graphics

16:42

Put on our website. And by the way, I was just sort of reminded recently that some of you essentially use

16:48

Mozilla Think that we have a big black box on our website with nothing in it that is not the case the big black box means you have adblock on and You can you can turn that off for particular websites like ours

17:03

And if you do that, you see beautiful banner ads there That's a you know, give you information about upcoming things and stuff that we think is important So if you think there's a big black hole that we just didn't notice

17:16

In the front of our website. It's not a big black hole. That's that's an important spot and you should be seeing something there

17:23

So just a just a reminder That you might want to look at that then on Sunday Again I've posted everything on the website.

17:32

I'll be at Lindbergh Baptist. I'll be at Grace Reformed Baptist Speaking on Monday and Wednesday and on Tuesday evening,

17:42

I'm going to be meeting with a Gentleman who is joining the Roman Catholic Church is in the

17:48

RCIA classes. He is Coming from a Southern Baptist Church into the

17:53

Roman Catholic Church. He's doing a film on converts and conversion Roman Catholicism and I'll have to ask him if it was his teachers who suggested he have another voice from the other perspective

18:06

Or if he just felt that was something that needed to be done. I I'm not certain about that but we're gonna be meeting

18:12

Tuesday evening and one of the churches I'm speaking at has graciously allowed us to use their facilities and We're gonna be talking about Why I don't think conversion

18:24

Roman Catholicism is a good thing at all In fact, the gentleman came into one of our two chat channels into the apologetics

18:29

Channel night before last and we had a lengthy discussion and I you know presented the gospel to him and His host mask told me who he was, but I just treated as a regular witnessing encounter until he made a comment that indicated that he knew who

18:47

I was and I knew he what he was etc, etc, but Still it's going to be interesting things. So pray for that because you know,

18:53

I don't know You can We could record an hour and a half's worth of stuff in 30 seconds ends up in the final product as far as I know

19:04

And who knows which of the 30 seconds it is, but it's an opportunity to give a witness.

19:09

I think there's a good reason despite the the tremendous push for Removing the gospel from the list of Defining beliefs of the

19:24

Christian faith. That's what's going on. That's the only way I can see it people who once recognized in spirituality of the gospel because of the degradation of the view of Scripture in so much of evangelicalism because of the atomization of truth so many

19:39

Christians They do not see how Christian truth is of a one. It's it's a one hole it's a the same cloth you can't be cutting it into bunches of different pieces and ribbons and So because of that people cut the gospel out and say well, there's all you know

19:57

Good men have disagreed and therefore we really shouldn't we need to be epistemologically humble, but blah blah blah blah blah blah and the gospel ends up being that which is sacrificed in the process and we don't go there and Because of that are out of the mainstream these days when it comes to all the evangelical ecumenism that is taking place around us and so I want to be able to give a

20:27

An answer for the hope that is within me in that the context so pray for that to encounter on on the

20:32

Tuesday evening as well That should mean Yes, I should mean that we should be able to do the dividing line on Tuesday Without too much of difficulty because I don't have anything during that day

20:44

We'll just have to do it remotely and that's fine. And Lord willing. I will be as we did last time

20:50

Live -streaming the debate on Saturday Via this link that you are listening to live if you want to listen to the debate between myself and Syed Saeed on Jesus in the

21:01

Quran and the Bible and I think that will be a very useful time. So I'll pray for us

21:08

Rich mentions that he's begun work on the debate with Dan Barker the video finally arrived and so we are going to be putting to the

21:17

DVDs together and mp4 etc, etc, and that will be available in much higher quality than the

21:24

YouTube version that was provided before and That will be available and on the ministry resource list.

21:31

I put up a couple weeks ago We would like to get a blu -ray burner right now.

21:36

It's just one It's not an overly expensive item, but we'd like to get a blu -ray burner because the new video

21:43

Software we have can do that and we want to see if there's any interest On the part of people and I guess from what you say

21:48

This video would be high enough quality to really make it worthwhile to to have a blu -ray version of it.

21:55

So For those folks. Yeah, this one's this was recorded in HD. Okay, so it does

22:00

HD, right? So For those of you who have in the past visited the ministry resource list, you might want to look at that and If I guess the idea is get this one see what kind of demand there is and if we need to get more than then we'll we'll get more but this would be the way to at least start off is to get the one and see how

22:22

The production works and stuff like that. So there's some of the stuff that is going on Right now, so let's get to the subject of Norman Geisler preached sermon long long ago that we started reviewing almost as long as ago

22:35

As it was preached. I Think it's a 2001 down Florida as I recall And we started viewing it in June and we've gone back and forth and back and forth and things like that But why he's not a five -point

22:47

Calvinist and you know People say well, you know you pick on George Bryson or this person you need to look at the good people

22:54

Well, if Norman Geisler doesn't accurately represent What reform theology is who would is the question and yet we have found many many many many problems in dr

23:05

Geisler's sermon already and we continue on with why Norman Geisler is not a five -point columnist

23:12

Oh Somebody's theological beliefs can act as a pair of glasses and they look through it and they look right at a text that's saying

23:20

Something else and they don't see it When the extreme Calvinist looks at these verses,

23:26

I'm going to quote to you He takes the word all or the word world always to mean some for example

23:33

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son actually

23:39

If you take the time to read meaningful reformed exegesis You will recognize that Those exegetes recognize that the

23:50

Gospel of John uses cosmos and about 14 different ways And then you if you throw in the epistles of John that only expands the number for example

24:02

We are told that if we love the world Then the love of the Father is not in us and yet God loved the world

24:07

Now if you do not allow the word world to have multiple meanings then there is a blatant clear obvious contradiction right on the very surface of the text of the

24:16

Bible and Yet if a Muslim or a Mormon or an atheist were to present that as an alleged contradiction to dr

24:24

Geisler, how would he respond if it was any other word? And then he would allow the context of each to define its usage and demonstrate there is no context but the problem is dr.

24:36

Geisler is using this exact word and If he's insisting that it always has the same meaning no matter what the context is

24:42

Jesus says he doesn't pray for the world in John 17 so if this is the

24:47

World as in every single human being ever created Then Jesus isn't praying for every single human being ever created yet God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten

24:56

Son so if you're actually read into the term cosmos some kind of universal human nature rather than What the word probably means and that is all that God created and that he is demonstrating his love in the sending of his

25:11

Son and not make an inappropriate application in John 3 because John 3 has specificity in it it specifically says a

25:21

Certain group of people are going to receive eternal life If it doesn't say for God's love the world that gave his only begotten

25:26

Son that all the world might have eternal life It's not what it says What does it say let's see

25:31

I'm specifically having to back my volume off right now I Don't I don't know if you notice. I think

25:37

I damaged. I think I strained my vocal cords weekend for last And I'm starting to preach and the volumes getting up, and I'm starting to feel it.

25:46

I need to be controlling myself because I I talked all day

25:53

A week ago Sunday, and then in the evening after I got done preaching we sang a hymn and I belted it out, and I felt something and I literally think

26:02

I Strained a vocal cord on the think the right -hand side not not both of them, but on the right hand side, so I've got to Rein myself in here and try to be a little bit more calm and mate you might have to Ride the volume a little bit as I'm going to drop my volume

26:17

Purposefully to protect things because I have a debate to do in just a few days bit as it may John chapter 3 verse 16 does not say

26:26

For God's love the world that he gave his only begotten Son so that the world might have eternal life, so what is this? And yet, that's how it's interpreted the specificity is right there on the text so that everyone believing and We've explained many many times that we have new new listeners.

26:42

Let me explain again That when people emphasize the word who so ever in John 3 16

26:50

They're emphasizing a word that actually isn't there in the Greek The original language literally says all the ones believing now.

26:57

That's where whosoever Who believes comes from there is no? delimitation

27:04

It's anyone in the group of believers But people try to read into that text this idea that there is this who so ever

27:14

There is no election. That's what's being understood. That's not there and so the text itself

27:23

Militates against the the abuse the abusive misreading of it that many people put forward, but anyway, dr.

27:30

Geisler Just doesn't seem to show a lot of familiarity with reformed exegesis.

27:36

See I think this comes in a fact that he just simply does not respect Reformed individuals on these matters.

27:41

He came to the conclusion as a student long ago that reformed theology was wrong in these matters that autonomous human will is the

27:49

The be -all and end -all of all things and if you don't buy into that then you're you're out to You're out to lunch and and so as a result,

27:59

I just don't think he listens He certainly hasn't listened to me because he doesn't believe in anyone who is younger than him

28:06

Can't actually teach him anything. So we're gonna continue with that right after we take our break Listening to Norman Geisler why he's on a five -point

28:14

Calvinist on the dividing line. We'll be right back Bible works 8 is here full of innovative and essential tools users will have a hundred and ninety plus Bible translations 35 original language text and morphology databases 29 lexical grammatical references and an abundance of additional resources

28:51

Pastors you will appreciate the phrase matching tool which will allow you to find all of the verses containing phrases

28:56

Similar to your search verse giving you greater depth and keener insight during sermon preparation Seminary professors and students will be enriched by the way

29:04

Bible works 8 shows the most common words in the pericope book or chapter Plus provides a wider range of formatting options and faster access to copying preferences scholars

29:13

Your research just got easier with the army external resources manager a handy tool to collect organize and display resource files from your computer

29:21

As well as the internet. Dr. James White says Bible works is the best Bible software available I have used

29:26

Bible works software for years and each new release has brought many new and useful tools to the program This is the program that runs 24 7 on my office computer and it is the one that's running on my laptop when

29:36

I engage In debates it is simply the number one research tool for anyone doing serious exegesis of the text for over 15 years

29:43

Bible works has assisted all users in their study of the original languages and That enables you to do one thing focus on the text and that translates to focusing on the truth

29:52

Order your copy of Bible works at a omen org and for a limited time You'll receive free shipping and a free mp3 download of the white airmen debate

30:02

The history of the Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith Once the core of the

30:08

Reformation the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine in his book the

30:14

God who justifies theologian James White calls believers to a fresh appreciation of Understanding of and dedication to the great doctrine of justification and then provides an exegesis of the key scripture texts on this theme

30:28

Justification is the heart of the gospel in today's culture where tolerance is the new absolute

30:33

James White proclaims with passion the truth and centrality of the doctrine of justification by faith

30:39

Dr. J. Adams says I lost sleep over this book. I simply couldn't put it down James White writes the way an exegetically and theologically oriented pastor appreciates.

30:49

This is no book for casual reading There is solid meat throughout an outstanding contribution in every sense of the words

30:57

The God who justifies by dr. James White get your copy today at a omen org

31:03

Hello everyone. This is Rich Pierce in a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man -centered self -help program

31:10

The need for a no -nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater I am convinced that a great many go to church every

31:18

Sunday yet. They have never been confronted with their sin Alpha -Omega ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses

31:28

Man is sinful and God is holy That sinful man is in need of a perfect Savior and Jesus Christ is that perfect Savior?

31:37

We are to come before the Holy God with an empty hand of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well

31:48

Support Alpha Omega ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

31:54

Thank you And welcome back to the dividing line if I sound like my voice is a little higher it's because I'm standing up I Did 23 miles is that how that works you stand up your voice gets higher?

32:12

How's that? I did 23 miles this morning. I did 32 last night so that's 54 by 54 and a half or so in the past 12 hours and Sitting here for this amount of time already.

32:23

It's like I knew it was coming. So if I don't stretch now, you're gonna have All you're gonna hear is is

32:30

Norman Geisler preaching for the rest If he's screaming in the microphones gonna go so I'm standing up right now to try to stretch these things out

32:38

It's possible to do I've done I've done dividing lines from standing before it's it's it's it's not impossible.

32:43

So And norm doesn't care whether I'm standing or not. He's not listening So, let's continue on with Norman Geisler on face value you would assume that that means

32:53

God loves everybody, right? Not for the extreme Calvinist. That means God only loved the elect world.

33:01

He only loved the saved world Now see it's real easy if you ignore, you know what we say to make it sound silly

33:11

It's very easy to do that That's one of the main differences between us is one side monologues and caricatures the other

33:20

We play the entire sermons of the other side. We let them speak for themselves.

33:26

We beg for dialogue But they know they know in the heart of hearts. The dialogue does not help their position at all and interpreting the

33:34

Bible That's called Eisegesis reading into the text not reading out of the text now now again who actually dealt with the text did

33:44

I just not deal with the text point out, you know, the uses of Cosmos and John the context of posthopist you own everyone believing

33:54

Things like that who who actually engages in eisegesis. I mean, I wrote a little book called the

33:59

Potter's freedom and when I was writing that book, I wrote to dr. Geisler because Prior to publication that book we had a nice relationship we had had dinner a number of times and we had spoken at conferences together and things like that and I Wrote to him because and one of the questions

34:18

I asked I wanted to have some correspondence not to argue a debate To really ask serious questions that would impact how

34:25

I approached particular issues in the Potter's freedom and I asked him

34:30

I said You know one that one of the things that's troubling is Where where's the?

34:37

exegesis of the key scriptural passages I mean you do deal with Romans 9 but in three or four different places never as a single group as as a single group of verses you don't follow the argumentation through and Especially John chapter 6

34:53

I mean that this would to me is just one of the most important texts around Why isn't there an exegesis of John chapter 6 especially verse 37 in In the book and he wrote back so I exegeted it and So and I've told this story, but again, we have new have new listeners

35:12

The first edition of chosen but free came out did not have a Scripture index in it.

35:18

Well, okay it did but it was worthless It was it was not in any way shape or form complete

35:24

And so back then I would actually pay people with Amazon gift certificates to Leaf through the book and scan down every single page of the book to give me every reference in the book to a particular text and I'd already done done with John 6 myself and So I sent back to dr.

35:45

Geisler a letter Where I cited every single reference to John 637 in the entire book chosen but free and I gave the entire context and I think once out of maybe four maybe five places

36:00

I recall Even the whole verse was cited. There was never any exegesis offered. I Just said and I honestly left the possibility open.

36:10

I said Was there a section of exegesis that was removed in editing I mean that that type of thing has happened

36:17

I left that as a possibility All I got back was a postcard and the postcard said if you publish

36:24

I'll respond norm. That was it so You know,

36:30

I tried but I was met with That kind of response. I did my best.

36:36

So when we talk about eisegesis What dr. Geisler did with Romans 9 with John 6

36:43

With so many of these texts, that's eisegesis Actually looking at John chapter 3. Did you know what he said?

36:48

Well common sense would say that means God loves everyone What has he done there? He has assumed a particularly meaning for cosmos that he does not substantiate

36:57

He assumes it that is contradictory to the delimiter that is offered by the text itself because if you're gonna read it that way that cosmos there simply means

37:07

Individual human beings all who have ever lived then how can God's love for every human being who's ever lived be

37:14

Demonstrated by only giving eternal life to some of them. Well, exactly

37:20

Rich just said well, it's all their fault But that's not what the text is talking about. No, is it so there's you know, it's it's

37:27

The accusation of eisegesis is an important one and and I made it a number of times against dr.

37:33

Geisler and I fairly Documented every assertion that I made and that's why the

37:44

Attempted response which I continue to leave this day was not written by dr. Geisler the attempted response in the appendices the appendix to chosen by free that was added later is

37:56

Just such an egregious example of how this important subject should never be approached.

38:02

It should never be treated in that way never And I hope I would never ever Treat anything that way to Jesus Exegesis is what does the text mean in its context?

38:13

That's getting the meaning out of the Bible Eisegesis is reading your theology into the

38:19

Bible not being able to see what it says Take a look at these verses and you tell me

38:26

What they mean? if in John 316

38:32

God so loved the world in Romans chapter 5 Now do

38:38

I need to point something out? He didn't even quote the verse He quoted one phrase out of a verse as an example of how we're eisegesis eating it

38:47

For God's of the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him Should not perish but have eternal life

38:56

That's the verse You don't just quote one phrase and go see means what

39:01

I say That that's that's dangerous very famous passage beginning with verse 6

39:08

For when we were still without strength in due time Christ died for the ungodly

39:15

Now how many people in the world are ungodly just the elect or the whole world?

39:21

If the whole world is ungodly and Christ died for the ungodly Then does it not follow logically that Christ died for the whole world?

39:31

Or turn over a couple more chapters here to second it is always amazed me

39:38

Dr. Geisler is Has been given high positions of teaching is that even semi meaningful use of Romans chapter 5

39:51

Is that even semi accurate handling of the text yes

39:56

Christ died for the ungodly For one will hardly die for a righteous man, okay

40:02

Let's use dr. Geisler's enunciated method of interpretation That means that there are righteous men outside of the grace of God so much for universal sinfulness or Does that not demonstrate that dr.

40:17

Geisler's entire approach here is wrong It's surface level. It is not even to be taken seriously

40:26

Amazing What is the point that is being presented by the

40:32

Apostle One will hardly die for a righteous man though perhaps for the good man someone will dare even to die

40:38

But God demonstrates his own love toward us and that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us

40:46

There's that that troubling us Much more than having now been justified by his blood so who's the us those who have been justified

40:57

We shall be saved from the wrath of God through him who's gonna be saving the wrath of God through him everyone

41:04

No So which one of us read the context and allowed the context to flow and which one of us took a single phrase?

41:11

Isolated it and read his own meaning into it here in Upbraiding others for engaging in eisegesis.

41:19

Dr. Geisler demonstrates that he himself engages in it egregiously Egregiously and The scary thing is there's not too many people in his circle who can call him on it because if you do

41:35

You don't remain in his circle and that's a problem Corinthians chapter 5 in 2nd

41:42

Corinthians chapter 5 we are told by the Apostle Paul That Christ died for all take a look at 514 2nd

41:55

Corinthians for the love of Christ constrains us because we judge that if one died for all

42:05

Then all died and he died for all that those who live should

42:13

Live no longer for themselves Now how somebody can look at this text and say that Christ died only for some

42:21

I do not understand The sad thing is I think he probably does not understand

42:28

But again And and I know people get so angry when I say it's dr. Geisler is not an exegete he's a philosopher and I'm afraid that His time under Roman Catholic tutelage pretty much destroyed his exegetical capacities and Let's just look at 2nd

42:50

Corinthians 5 Have all died in Pauline theology have all died

42:56

No There I go with my voice again Mm -hmm.

43:01

Why aren't you you know signaling me when I get too loud in there you you should be It's my fault it's my free will okay, thanks

43:11

Having concluded this that one died for all and therefore all died

43:18

So everyone died Everyone's united with Christ and his death. Is that Pauline theology?

43:25

and He died for all so that they who live Might no longer live for themselves. So that's everybody is that why everybody's condemned is because see actually they they're they're penalties been paid and They shouldn't live for themselves now.

43:39

They should because they've died with Christ and they haven't they have now Christ's life Or is this not the exact same terminology

43:46

Paul uses in Galatians 2 of himself? Christ gave himself for me. He loved me and gave himself for me.

43:51

I have been crucified with Christ Are you really gonna tell me that Pauline theology is that the people are standing the pits of the parapets of hell saying

43:59

I Frustrated the work of Christ. I died with Christ. But here I am. I'm still a rebellion

44:06

That what you're telling me so that they who live might no longer live for themselves

44:12

But for him who died and rose again on their behalf on their behalf

44:17

Why even say on their behalf if it's everybody again?

44:26

Dr. Geisler says I can't understand how anybody cannot see this and I respond.

44:32

Yeah, I agree I don't understand how anybody cannot see this But if you'd read more than just a few words in a row

44:39

It makes perfect sense. I do not understand how somebody without a pair of colored glasses

44:47

Called his theological system can look at a verse that says all and say it means some

44:53

Yeah, I mean here here you have a perfect illustration One side exegeting the text letting the other side speak fully

45:02

Listening to a person talking about how people with theological glasses on can't see the meaning of the text and yet one side will not debate

45:10

One side doesn't do exegesis one side only quotes parts of it one side

45:15

Exegetes the meaning all as in universal into its a text that cannot handle that meaning and it does not lead you to that meaning

45:24

I Think that's why some people that that white he's he's so mean because we do this

45:31

We actually honor the text so much that it doesn't matter who's doing the ice

45:36

Jesus We're going to expose it and I think that's why you'll never see me on the big stages.

45:44

I Asked me why aren't you it at this big thing or that big thing? I think this is why

45:51

Because there's an unwritten rule That once you get to a certain level of popularity You don't you're untouchable exactly you don't touch you don't you don't point out when

46:03

Norman geysers engaging in ice Jesus That's that's wrong You don't talk about this upcoming apologetics conference at Southern you so the evangelical seminary and say excuse me

46:14

Gospel being compromised here, you know by having Roman Catholics in what you're saying. We're all gonna get together

46:20

We're gonna learn from each other, but we're not gonna debate each other What you're saying is the gospel doesn't define the faith any longer

46:28

When you have Dinesh D'Souza debating Christopher Hitchens You have someone with a grossly sub -biblical worldview

46:40

Presenting the Christian side quote -unquote and I know that if I point that out

46:47

I am I am Slamming doors in my face. I know that and by doing this talking about Norman geyser talking about William Lane Craig Would you just shut up?

46:58

You're a troublemaker Believe me folks. I know How we could have you know, five times the staff around here and five times the budget, but I can't do it

47:12

I can't do how How can I stand in front of an audience? Saturday evening in New York When I am dialoguing with a

47:22

Muslim and I'm going to predict right now that there are certain arguments are going to be presented in regards to the nature of the

47:32

New Testament and Allegations of its contradiction and I'm gonna have to use certain methodologies

47:41

Consistent methodologies to demonstrate that those accusations are false if I do that when

47:47

I'm dialoguing with a Muslim and I will not point out the same kind of Isagetical errors and inconsistencies on the part of William Lane Craig or Norman Geisler then

47:59

I'm a hypocrite and I can't look at myself in the mirror and Behave that way

48:06

I'd have a much bigger ministry have a lot more people supporting us, but I can't do it and So those of you who continue to support us besides despite all that.

48:17

Thank you very much But you know the same way I know that you're unusual that we've got a little bit of a different perspective on things and while I desire to be

48:33

Christian and respectful to people and I think I was to dr. Geisler in the

48:39

Potter's freedom people in our day assume any type of Contradiction any type of exposure of error means that you're mean and you're unloving and I just look at the apostolic example provided by the

48:56

Apostle Paul and the Apostle John Look at Galatians look at first John and tell me

49:01

Tell me I'm even living up to them let alone violating what they did in naming names and standing firm for the truth

49:14

Just I might mention that in passing how they can look at a verse that says the whole world And say it only means some of the world

49:21

It even gets stronger Let's take a look at version 1st

49:27

Timothy chapter 2 the five -point Calvinist says the

49:34

Christ died only for some people the Bible says he died for all first Timothy 2 4

49:41

Who desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth?

49:47

Now there's one rule in interpreting the Bible. It's a very simple one all means all and that's all all means

49:56

You know there have been a couple times when I've had Calvinist friends Make reference to that and it makes me a little bit uncomfortable because I I don't want to misrepresent it aside

50:07

But here is Dr.. Norman Geisler demonstrating a statement of just utter ignorance

50:14

Because anybody who has has studied this issue to any depth at all knows.

50:19

That's simply not the case Knows that there are many places where pass pass upon In its various genders

50:30

Has a delimiter that is attached to it. I mean all men is not all creation

50:38

All believers is not all men I mean, there's just all

50:45

Jerusalem went out to see John the Baptist well. No they didn't

50:51

There wasn't there wasn't a situation where Jerusalem was abandoned Where there was not a human being left in all of Jerusalem in John chapter 11 you

51:05

You have the concern that that's all the people are going after Jesus. What did mean all as in exhaustive and So to say all means all that's all means is just I'm sorry

51:18

It's it's absurd on a level that is is breathtaking Given that it's coming out of the mouth of a man who is considered to be such a great scholar

51:25

To be so well -trained You should show some kind of restraint at this point because when you make that kind of a statement

51:36

It's so easy to refute it given the context in which you're making it It's just shocking and of course first Timothy remember first Timothy 2 4 is one of the big three

51:47

I did a entire chapter in the Potter's freedom Where I addressed first Timothy 2 4 2nd Peter 3 9

51:53

Matthew 23 37 this sermon was preached after The Potter's freedom was published and it might have been preached after that appendix was written.

52:03

I'm not sure and so you would think just simply on a simple honesty level that you would have to Provide some kind of refutation to the exegesis that I provided Demonstrating that if you take all men in first Timothy 2 4

52:23

I know they're reformed folks to take it that way and they they're talking about some just general type of prescriptive thing here but the problem is that this

52:35

Text goes on to say and you'll notice Geisler never goes on with text at least not on this subject on the deity of Christ the

52:44

Trinity the Resurrection he can go on and on because he's right about those things so he can allow the argument to flow but this

52:50

This is one place where for some reason he doesn't allow the text speak for itself because well, he's wrong

52:56

He's not representing the biblical position. He's representing a tradition. And so he has to just cherry -pick the phrases

53:03

Why not go on to the next section and talk about and explain to us? If there is one

53:09

God and one mediator also in God and men the man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all

53:15

The testimony given at the proper time and explain to us

53:20

I I think That I would love to hear and it would Doesn't strike you as a little bit strange

53:28

That if we are now nine years and more past the original publication of chosen but free

53:35

Has anyone heard in that period of time dr. Geisler provide an in -depth exegesis of this text and explain the mediatorial work of Christ in light of his assertions here because his assertion is that The men here is all men

53:56

So that means Christ is a mediator Between God and all men that means Christ intercedes for all men.

54:02

Could someone explain then if his intercession is What is what causes him to be able to save the uttermost according to Hebrews 7?

54:11

Is it dr. Geisler's position that Jesus is mediating for the lost what's he mediating

54:20

Does he fail in his task of mediation? What is the nature of mediation? These all go to the issue of What Paul is actually talking about this is where you have to show some respect to the text and Yet how many times?

54:35

Think back over the years if you're reformed as I am how many times have you heard preachers?

54:41

quoting first Timothy to 2nd Peter 3 Matthew 23 37 slaughtering Matthew 23 37 in the process always almost always

54:50

How many times? Do they ever go to any depth? Showing any understanding of what it is.

54:58

They're actually asserting that Jesus Christ is as a high priest

55:05

Seeks to save Those the Father has not decreed to save I Mean even if you just take the simple foreknowledge view that God knows who's gonna be saved

55:14

You still have this idea that Jesus is trying to save people that he knows as God are never going to be saved

55:23

Isn't isn't that the position that's being asserted? So shouldn't you try to explain these things if you don't ever talk about these things?

55:30

Aren't you basically sort of saying I don't think my audience is ever gonna go that depth so I don't need to worry about it and That again goes to a very different perspective, you know,

55:41

I I've told a story before Maybe this is why we're never getting through the sermon because I start preaching every time but it does go to why we do what?

55:50

we do Because I had a lot of people looked at me and they're like, you know, we'd love to have you do certain things

55:55

But you know, we're just scared of you You know We hear that you attack this person or attack that person and people

56:04

Think that this kind of review is an attack. Oh, you're attacking Norman Geisel. You're a mean man this

56:12

Preaching and teaching is in the public realm. It is being presented to Christians as being representative of the highest end of evangelical teaching and If we are unwilling

56:29

To be consistent in providing a response here. Then we are Hypocrites we have to do this if our goal is the edification of the body of Christ as a whole

56:43

Not the advancement of our own well political fortunes of which

56:50

I have none or Our political aspirations of which I have none to the exasperation of many

56:58

But that's why we do what we do and this isn't an attack on dr. Geisler The only believe me

57:05

I know it would be so much easier If I didn't do these things It would be easier.

57:11

Our income would be so much greater if I didn't do these things but It's what we've been doing for well to 26 years.

57:22

It's October's even done. So that one went flying past we're now into our 27th year and It's what we've got to keep doing.

57:32

I don't know how else to do anything else. Okay yours truly ain't smart enough to run all these political filters and and Think these things through the reason

57:42

I review this sermon Is because here is a man who is misusing the

57:47

Word of God. That's not meant as an attack on him I've documented this now over and over and over again, and this program has contained many examples of it

57:55

And if you if you model to people this kind of mishandling the Word of God How can they then learn to handle the

58:03

Word of God right in any other area How can they be consistent in giving answer of the hopes within them? That's what concerns me so much.

58:11

That's what drives us Here at the dividing line and Alpha Omega ministries. Thank you very much for listening today

58:18

Who knows we might continue this on Thursday. Oh What's gonna happen between now and then but I'd like to and Then maybe even continue it on from New York next week who knows we'll find out pray for this coming weekend, especially the debate

58:33

That's God's Word would be honored and Jesus Christ be glorified. Thanks for listening. We'll see you Thursday evening.

58:39

God bless The dividing line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega ministries

59:35

If you'd like to contact us call us at 602 973 4602 or write us at p .o

59:40

Box 3 7 1 0 6 Phoenix, Arizona 8 5 0 6 9. You can also find us on the world wide web at a omen org

59:47

That's a o m i n dot o RG where you'll find a complete listing of James White's books tapes debates and tracks