April 4, 2024 Show with Greg Moore on “Looking for Every Avenue to be Salt & Light in Your Local Community”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this fourth day of April, 2024.

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I am so delighted to have a first -time guest today, and for the life of me,

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I can't understand why it's taken me so long to have him as my guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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The honor and privilege to meet Greg Moore when he was manning an exhibitor's booth for Dead Men Walking, which is the title of his podcast, in the same hall where I was manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, during a

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Fight, Laugh, Feast conference, which that year was held in Knoxville, Tennessee, and had the great privilege of being interviewed on Dead Men Walking by Greg, and I am thrilled to finally have him on my program.

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Greg is the owner of Covenant Real Estate. As well as being an entrepreneur, he's an elected county commissioner since 2016, and he is a member of Christ the

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Word Church in Sylvania, Ohio. He's the husband to Samantha of 17 years, and father to Penelope Corrali, and I may have mispronounced that, or Corrali, and Oliver, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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My dear friend and colleague in ministry, Greg Moore. Oh, well

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Chris, thank you for that great introduction, and the honor is really all mine. What you have done over the decades on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is just unmatched with the content you bring everyone, and I really appreciate you in that space, and it was an absolute joy to get to sit down and talk to you just a year ago on the podcast, and to this day still get comments about that episode, and some of the stories you had about your heyday in radio, and the people you met, and how you got that job.

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It was very interesting to the listeners, so thank you for doing that. And how much money have you lost in donations since airing that interview?

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You want to know what? We're exactly even, so that's a win. Well, I can tell you one thing.

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After departing Salem Media, the largest Christian radio network in the world, at least it used to be,

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I worked there for 15 years for WMCA and WWDJ radio in New York as an account executive and airtime salesman.

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Since leaving there, they have lost $46 million. I guess

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I shouldn't be laughing, but I'm sure I had nothing to do with, or my departure had nothing to do with them losing that much money.

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Well, we don't know. I would say, too, to all the podcasters that might be listening, they have it good because radio personalities pave the way, and although they like to think that they're in the same caliber,

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I will have to say I did radio for about a year and a half, and it is 10 times harder going live, doing all the multitasking you're doing, live reads and queuing things up than when you're pre -recording a podcast.

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So I would just say I have much respect for you knowing your, like I said, decades of experience in radio.

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It is a whole different animal, and there's definitely a lot of skills that go into it. Well, I appreciate that very much.

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Well, tell us, tell our listeners, for those of our listeners who have not had the privilege to hear

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Dead Men Walking, tell us about this podcast. Oh, sure, of course, yeah. So Dead Men Walking podcast was kind of like the second iteration, generation, so to speak, of podcasts at the beginning of COVID.

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So I started in April 2020. If you look at the numbers of podcasting, you see some spikes and some valleys.

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That was definitely a spike. I think a lot of people said, well, I'm not doing anything. I think it's time to start the podcast.

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Let's try our hand at it, and that was something I did in April of 2020. I'd been thinking about it for about a year, year and a half.

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I jokingly say my wife supported me by saying, you know, maybe you should go talk to a camera or a microphone about some of these theological ideas you have, because, you know, when you're a theology geek, any question turns into a theology discussion, you know, honey, where did you put the pot, you know, the lid to the pan, and half an hour later, we're talking about covenant baptism or something like that.

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So I've always had that curiosity in me, and I tell people all the time on the podcast, it's actually kind of selfish.

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I bring much smarter people on than me. I get to sit down and grill them and talk to them and learn from them every week.

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About 90 % of the episodes out of the 300 we've done so far have a guest, and it's really quite satisfying to get scholars and pastors we've had congressmen on, comedians, and talk about the things that interest me and hopefully are valuable to the listeners and bring value to them in that content.

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But the tagline of the show is talking about theology and doctrine from a biblical worldview and everything interesting in between.

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So I don't leave anything out, but we mostly focus on those two things. But I will get into, you know, the theology of comedy, the arts, politics quite often as someone who's an elected local official,

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I do touch on those things, and it's been going very well. I know we have mutual friends with the cross -politic guys.

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They were very helpful very early on, went to their very first Fight, Laugh, Feast, asked if I could bring some podcasting equipment about six months into the podcast that fall in 2020.

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And funnily enough, they set us up right by the entrance and people thought it was our conference. And I had to keep going, no, no, no, this is cross -politic.

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We just happen to be the only podcast here. And then next year, Gabe and the guys over there,

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Knox and Sumpter, they had a podcast row and I jokingly told him, you know, I want royalties for that idea.

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I was the first one to do it at your conference. And ever since then, been going to those quite regularly.

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And we had a few conferences, G3, Jeffrey Rice's conference in Tullahoma, we've done that a few times.

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Try to get to conferences, provide content that's valuable to listeners, and glorify God ultimately.

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Amen. Can you give us some of your favorite moments and your worst nightmares during a podcast?

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Oh, I can definitely do that. So we have, in the very beginning,

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I had a co -host, his name was Jason Hamlin. We're both musicians. We had recorded and he was with me for almost two years.

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He did have to move away, had some other family stuff come up. So it's me solo now. But in that first two years, we had a little segment called the

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Newsy News. And it was just a funny little segment, a little intro where we're kind of singing falsetto and we're saying we have the

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Newsy News and kind of goofy. And we had Tom Askell on and we said, do you want to do some news with us,

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Tom, and comment on it? He said, sure. And we press that button and he looked into the camera like, what did I get myself into?

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And we made the joke, we like to take these learned men and bring them down to our level, you know, to the layman level.

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And then it was picked up by Reformed Funny Moments, which is a gentleman that I've had on the podcast.

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And then it went viral of him giving us this face of just what is it, what did I get myself into?

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But it was a very good episode overall and he had fun with it. But just the look on his face of going,

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I don't think I've been on a podcast with you guys are singing falsetto for a news intro, you know. And then

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I've always, you know, on this podcast, I don't try to chase clout or try to get platformed by someone else.

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But sometimes you run into people who have a lot of a large platform and they would be good for the podcast.

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And I do know the one time and the Lord taught me a very gracious lesson here. I had found a gentleman who had some interaction with Joe Biden and his video went viral.

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He came locally to where I live and I said, I would love to get you on the podcast. I'm thinking, well, he's already viral.

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It's kind of political. This would be good for numbers. And I'd never really thought that way before. And I thought this would be, you know, he's hot right now.

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You know how it is with viral stuff. If you got to get him within that first five, seven days of something going viral, it can help your podcast out.

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And we sat down and prerecorded and he said, oh, I'm a Christian. And I didn't qualify him any more than that.

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I didn't know him anything except for this 30 second clip I'd seen online. And he proceeded from 8 p .m.

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until 10 p .m. in my studio. So just rattle off the most insane, you know, unchristian, convoluted topics, ramblings.

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And at about 930, an hour and a half in, this happened as well when I was when I had

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Jason Hamlin on the podcast, my co -host. He looks over at me and I look at him and we just both were kind of thinking the same thing with our eyes.

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Yeah, none of this is usable. And he shook our hand and said, OK, let me know when it airs.

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And we deleted it and let him know that it wasn't going to air and never heard from him again. But I was taught

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I was taught the lesson. Guess what? The best guests aren't the ones that are viral. In fact, some of my favorite guests on the podcast, you you've never probably even heard of them.

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I've had local guys on my church on and have have gotten some of the greatest feedback on it, giving testimonies and kind of their life story.

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And just because someone has a big platform or a lot of followers or making a lot of noise within, you know,

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Christian kind of circles to me doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be the best guest

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I've found. And I'm sure you have, too. You found some very interesting interviews that were very glorifying to God with guys who might not have that Twitter following or that Facebook exposure or tick tock or wherever the new thing is now.

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And I was taught a lesson. It humbled me. I said, that's the last time it was early in the podcast. It's the last time I ever go after something just for some numbers.

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And it's worked out quite well. Well, I had a just to back up what you're saying,

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I had one of my most uncomfortable interviews ever with a world renowned theologian, author, conference speaker, and I'm not going to say his name.

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But if I if I did, you'd immediately recognize that he's in heaven now. But I knew

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I was in trouble when we were discussing his book on forgiveness.

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And the first 30 seconds of the show began with me saying, well, your book is on forgiveness.

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Please give us a biblical definition of forgiveness. The grace of God.

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Well, that's a big term, grace, you know, there's a lot of things that would come under that category.

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But can you be a little more specific? And the whole interview was that way. And I was

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I was actually surprised. Number one, I was shocked by that because I've I've heard this man preach and he was phenomenal.

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And he was just he was very comfortable, you know, from behind the pulpit. But sometimes when people are out of their own element, they're not sure.

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James Montgomery Boyce was that way. I didn't ever had the privilege of interviewing him because he passed before I had my own show, went home to glory before I had my own show.

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But when I heard him being interviewed on WMCA, where I worked by our in -house talk show host, he might not have been that much lacking for words, but he was very quiet.

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And, you know, when when Boyce got up to the podium, he was like, good evening, everybody. It was like a robust kind of a guy in his voice, that is.

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And but he was sounded very timid when he was being interviewed because it just wasn't his element.

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It was he was not in control of everything. But tell us about the title.

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Now, I'm assuming you borrowed it from that excellent movie starring

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Sean Penn and Susan Sarandon, Dead Man Walking about a death row inmate who developed a friendship with a nun.

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But what am I right in that, that you kind of took a spin on that name? Close, but no.

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Oh, it is funny because I have a lot of people that message me and go, you know, we thought it was a zombie podcast, but then we ended up listening for a few and we like it.

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Hey, any anyway, the Lord reels them in and, you know, brings glory to God.

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But no. And there is also actually a ministry called Dead Man Walking Ministries, which is a

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Christian reform ministry. And we joke back and forth online. I said, hey, I've got the proof. I named my podcast two months before you named your ministry.

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So there's any confusion. And he's a good friend now. But really reading through Ephesians to probably one of my more favorite chapters of any book in the

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Bible talking about being dead in our trespasses, I mean, literally being dead men walking, yet then raised us up with him and seated us in heavenly places next to Christ Jesus.

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And that juxtaposition for me of being dead in my trespasses, not not only not able, but not willing and in rebellion against Christ and against God and not wanting nothing to do with him, which is much of my testimony.

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And then saying, because his righteousness is imputed to me from Christ, he's now seated me next to heavenly places.

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So if you look at the logo, too, we do have kind of a dead man kind of skull and bones, but he's wearing a crown because we've also been raised to those heavenly places next to Christ Jesus.

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And obviously, Christ being king, it's just a beautiful image to me. So I named it that out of Ephesians, too.

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But yeah, I do get the occasional what's going on here is a bit off the movie or is it a zombie podcast?

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No, it's not a zombie podcast. We're talking about Christ and his glory on this podcast. Well, I knew you had some kind of biblical allegory involved, but I was just wondering if the movie's title had somehow stuck in your head.

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But who knows? Maybe subconsciously, but this has nothing to do with the rest of our interview.

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But don't you hate it when you find out, like when you're watching a movie,

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Sean Penn is a phenomenal, extraordinary actor. So is Susan Sarandon. But then when you hear about how extremely left they are and how much they hate your own worldview that that that that can like let the wind out of my sails,

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I still can appreciate good acting and good music, even when

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I find out people may hate what I believe and may even hate me personally if they ever met me.

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But do you react the same way? You're like, oh, man, I wish

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I didn't find out about that. We should know what 100 percent, 100 percent. And actually, that's the way it used to be.

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Fifty plus years ago, you really didn't know the politics or worldview of your actors. And I can separate the the artist from the activist.

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What I really don't like is by viewing that movie, I'm financially supporting that worldview. And that's what really irks me is like I would love to.

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You know, Leonardo DiCaprio is another one. I mean, probably one of the greatest actors of my generation worked with Martin Scorsese, who's probably one of the greatest directors ever.

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But when you watch those movies, you go, I'm looking at a leftist climate change government globalist here who doesn't have his head screwed on straight for how the world works.

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And he out now says he hates Christianity if they believe X, Y and Z, which are biblical things to believe.

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And you go, jeez. But, you know, the Revenant and all these movies that he's done are so fantastic.

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It just it's too bad. And it's too bad, too, because the arts belong to the Lord. They are to glorify him.

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When I write a song or I film something or I'm doing a podcast or anything with audio or video or pottery or painting, my ultimate goal, not only is it a common grace that we enjoy those things that that Christ has given us, but also it's to glorify

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God. And I'm on the bandwagon of we're taking back the arts for the Lord.

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And I think General Simpson had a quote that said, does Satan own the seventh and the chord and the minor and the major?

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Because if he does, we'll go down to hell and plunder it back all for the glory of God. And I kind of have that feeling in the arts, too.

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So if we can't sit here and complain about the leftists that have taken over the category of the arts,

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I think it's time for us Christians to take it back, create things for the glory of God, do it with excellence, professionalism and tell compelling stories that do glorify

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God. And of course, the key phrase there was do it with excellence, because unfortunately, most of the movies that I have seen that are about Christian themes and promoted to have a

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Christian worldview presented are ranging from absolutely horrible and laughably ridiculous to barely tolerable.

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Yeah. Once in a while, once in a while, they're OK. Even when it comes to true

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Christian stories like chariots of fire, you know, Hollywood is doing it better, which is hopefully this will this will change at some point.

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And one person I wish I never found out how left wing he was is Robert De Niro, because for years, for decades, he never would be interviewed.

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But now you see now you see him all the time with his left wing propaganda and it's just fomenting hatred.

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For a conservatism and. Well, you also find out if you spend any time around directors or actors or in Hollywood, he's at a point to an age to where he can just get some free accolades just by parroting what the norm is in leftist

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Hollywood. So he might not be working quite as much as he was, say, in the 70s, 80s and 90s, but he can be put on shows.

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And and, you know, Jimmy Fallon and Jimmy Kimmel and Jay Leno when he was around and he can get interviews and he can kind of get some cliche cachet, excuse me, just by spouting off whether he believes it or not, those types of, you know, agenda talking points, if you will.

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And it's almost a laziness on the behalf of the actor that does that. Now, with that being said,

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I don't want to this wasn't really our subject. I don't know how deep you want to get into this, but it's pretty crazy when you think about, you know,

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I used to blame Christians all the time about putting out bad art. But you also have to realize Hollywood is not going to fund and is not going to produce and distribute anything that truly glorifies

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God. I mean, you see a few movies a year come out. Oh, what's the movie that just came out with Jim Caviezel just a few months ago about the sex trafficking?

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And Jim Caviezel's overtly Catholic. And we can have that conversation if we think a true believing

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Catholic in their dogma is truly saved by the same gospel we believe in. But he professes

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Christ and there was all kinds of pushback. And if you watch that movie, you would think any sane person, whether you believe it or not, would go.

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This is a great movie about exposing the evils of sex trafficking in Hollywood. Derided it.

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They started rumors about him. They did not distribute it. They had to fund it themselves. And you go, here's a guy who gives a award winning performance in Count of Monte Cristo, for instance, or Passion of the

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Christ. I mean, he's at the top of his game as an actor. And yet because he attaches himself to something that is,

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I wouldn't even say overtly Christian, but stands for a righteous principle, Hollywood goes, we don't want anything to do with it.

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We have one agenda and that is to serve their master, which is Satan. And so I can't fully blame

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Christians all the time with the bad content they put out because they're fighting an uphill battle. As you know, you know, in your career, if you have prince godly principle in anything you do in any industry, radio or TV or whatever it is, you're going to get pushback and you have to stand firm.

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And sometimes that means loss of sponsorship. That means the quality might not be there because you can't fund those things.

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So I've gotten a little softer on that older in my age of looking at Christians and going, yes, it's an uphill battle, but that's no excuse.

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We still should be creating art that glorifies God that is done with excellence, like you said, Chris. Well, when we come back from our first commercial break, we're going to have

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Greg provide for us a summary of his salvation testimony, as we always do with first time guests.

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And we'd love to hear what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

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Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. And we'll hear that when we return momentarily.

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If you have any questions for Greg Moore and anything about his dead men walking a podcast, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the good old

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USA. So don't go away. We will be right back right after these messages. Puritan Reformed is a

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Bible believing, kingdom building, devil fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in scripture alone.

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Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image bearing prophets, priests and kings.

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We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

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We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline and exalt

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Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

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Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

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Puritan Reformed Church. Believe, build, fight. Puritan PHX dot com.

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island.

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I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my longtime friend and brother,

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Chris Arnzen, in the highest esteem. And I'm thrilled that you're listening today. I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Well, with the economic nightmare that we're all currently enduring,

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Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

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Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureCom group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

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SecureCom provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties and much more.

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We can be reached at SecureCom group dot com. That's SecureCom group dot com.

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But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

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Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

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In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

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God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

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He sensed that same God given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

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That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

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I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

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Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.

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That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

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That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

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God bless you. Hello, I'm Phil Johnson, executive director of Grace to You with John MacArthur.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with my guest Greg Moore, host of the

33:08

Dead Men Walking podcast, and we are eventually going to be discussing looking for every avenue to be salt and light in your local community as an ambassador for Christ.

33:19

But before that, we are keeping in fulfillment of our tradition here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, where whenever we have a first -time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, and we'd love to hear your story,

33:35

Greg. Well, thank you, Chris. I'm glad you said summary, because I almost said, do you have two to three hours?

33:43

Because the Lord is good, and I love testimonies, and I love what he's done in my life.

33:50

But I'll just give you a background so you kind of know where I'm coming from. Grew up in church from the age of, since I can remember, until about the age of 13 or 14, went to a non -denominational spirit -filled church which was really kind of like a

34:09

Southern Baptist -like church when you look at it. All the kind of creeds and confessions were

34:14

Southern Baptist, but non -denominational. But I was born in 1981, so I'm an 80s and mid -90s kid, which means

34:21

I grew up in that kind of Jerry Falwell, kind of don't look at it, don't touch it, don't go anywhere near it, the culture's bad, the world's going to hell in a handbasket.

34:32

And I was homeschooled starting in third grade, which back then, you know, we had social services, show up at the door and why aren't you kids in school?

34:39

It was a little more weird in 1986 than it is now. And we did

34:45

ATIA, Bill Gothard's ATIA, it was called back then, for a few years until my parents went, well, this is a little much for what even we're thinking.

34:55

And we went with a different curriculum. But I was in that for a few years and understand that whole thing. And I've actually done episodes on kind of that Bill Gothard world back then.

35:04

But was in a very legalistic church though too, even though Spirit Filled, it was very legalistic. So I had my pastor sit me down when

35:10

I was 12 years old, said, hey, I know you're taking piano lessons, you've got a recital coming up, I heard you're playing, you put that love in my heart by Keith Green, just wanted to let you know that's the devil's music.

35:20

That has a drum beat, he's the lead of the Christian Contemporary Music, the CCM movement.

35:26

And we don't agree with that, which as a 12 year old, you're going, wait a minute, you put this love in my heart, I'm just praising and worshiping

35:32

God when I'm playing that recital piece. And that's how I really felt about it. But it was one of those things where it was very little television, if so it was like a public television thing growing up, no movies, no rock music, no drum beats.

35:44

Yet all I wanted to do when I was a kid was play piano and play drums. At 13 or about 14, my parents got divorced, which had an effect on me.

35:57

We started going to another church, which eventually became very Pentecostal and very liberal in the sense of like Bill Johnson and Bethel and stuff like that had, they would send prophets out and prophesy over the church.

36:09

So had this big swing of being very conservative, almost fundamentalist growing up to in my teens and in youth group, it was being very liberal and seeing the shenanigans of, and I say shenanigans of unbridled

36:22

Pentecostalism kind of running amok within a church. And whether you agree or disagree with that, I saw things firsthand coming out of the

36:29

Toronto movement, things like that, barking like dogs and feathers and gold and all these things, right? And became disillusioned with both of those versions of the gospel.

36:39

And remember asking my youth pastor questions and just kind of getting no answers to them.

36:44

And I'm a very inquisitive kid. I always wanna know why, why, why, right? And I remember asking my youth pastor just very quickly,

36:52

I said, why do people go to hell? And he says, they don't believe in Jesus. And I said, is unbelief a sin? And he says, yeah.

36:57

And Matthew says, unbelief is a sin. And I said, did Jesus die for all sins in the world? And he said, yes, they do.

37:02

And I said, then why is anyone in hell? Why isn't everyone in heaven? And I didn't know at 14 years old, he just looked at me and laughed and said, that's a good one and walked away, which

37:11

I wasn't satisfied with that answer. And looking back on that as a 14 year old, I'm wrestling with things like limited atonement.

37:17

And I didn't know the theological terms for them, but I was very curious about this. What does the

37:22

Bible say? Well, I did all the things that a unbeliever could do between the ages of probably 16, 17 and 24.

37:34

I say, I said the sinner's prayer at seven, God saved me at 24. Some of those out there will hear that and understand exactly what

37:41

I'm talking about. Had a head knowledge of God, but my heart had not been changed.

37:47

But during that time, I'm not gonna get into the wickedness I was involved in, but looking back on it, I should be dead.

37:53

I should have been found in a gutter in downtown Detroit somewhere with probably either an overdose or stab wounds.

38:00

I mean, just the way the Lord providentially protected me through that time is pretty insane. During that time was dating a girl from the time

38:10

I was 18 to 24, we dated for almost six years. And all at once, I was in a band that was going to be touring nationally.

38:18

We had just got signed to a deal. I was the drummer, it was a rock band and everything that goes along with a rock band, you can use your imagination there.

38:27

21 years old, living in downtown Detroit, Michigan in a loft. And within 24 hours, the

38:33

Lord took everything from me. He took the band from me and I won't get into the details, but I say providentially removed it from me with no possibility.

38:41

Took the band, took my girlfriend, took my where I was living, didn't have a car, didn't have a license, didn't have a job, didn't have money.

38:47

And I remember lying on a mattress in a loft in Detroit and sobbing and going, well, do I have Christ?

38:53

Do I still have Christ? Is he there? Is he taken away from me? And I believe at that moment, my heart was regenerated and understood what it was to, what it was in my depravity and to need

39:06

Christ. And from there, like I said, my girlfriend of that time broke up with me and started this two -year process of separating myself from all the influences of the world, my friends and the substances and the teachings and the things

39:21

I was watching and the thing, reading and all that. And the Lord radically transformed my heart during that time, praying for my girlfriend that she would one day be my wife.

39:33

She was out in the world doing things that she had no business doing. And I won't get into detail on what that was, but seeing pictures of her at nightclubs and things like that, while I'm serving the

39:44

Lord and separating myself and really going into a season of like, almost like a wilderness. At the end of two years, the

39:51

Lord miraculously bring us back together. That is now my wife, Samantha of 17 years. She is a firm believer.

39:59

And from there started reading and devouring the word of God and casting off traditions of what my church had taught me and really wanting to go, what does the word of God say?

40:10

And I joke with James White with this, a mutual friend of ours, Dr. James White. And I was following a gentleman named

40:17

Dave Hunt. I was getting a physical newsletter and like 2006, he would send it to me and I was reading it and I'm going, this guy seems to know what he's talking about.

40:26

He's very kind of debate and argumentative kind and can really back up his points as Dave Hunt guy.

40:33

And he said, go get this book that I did with this guy named James White. And I had no idea who

40:38

James White was. So I bought the book and I said, Dave Hunt's gonna wipe the floor with this guy. I got halfway through the book,

40:47

Chris, and I went, I'm agreeing with this James White fellow. This is all the questions

40:53

I had growing up of what are these doctrines of grace and what is this reformed theology and what is this

40:59

Calvinistic, right? And I was aware of what Calvin is. I knew the term, but back then it was like, well, Jonathan Edwards, he was a great preacher and he's a good guy in history, but we don't believe those weirdos of Calvinism and things like that and reformed theology.

41:15

So I tell people, James White is the one who, he was my, what do you call that?

41:22

Gateway drug, if you will, into reformed theology and Calvinistic view. I devoured that book.

41:27

Then of course, devoured three or four more of his, then found R .C. Sproul, then found the history of the church.

41:35

I had been in church my entire life up until 16 years old and I didn't even know the history of the church.

41:41

Chris, when I tell you, I sat down and I went, wait a minute, the guy who wrote

41:46

Pilgrim's Progress was reformed, wait a minute. The guy whose commentary I use, Matthew Henry, when

41:52

I was a kid, he was reformed, wait a minute. John Newton, the guy who wrote Amazing Grace, he was reformed, wait a minute.

41:58

The Prince of Preachers, Charles Spurgeon, he was reformed, wait a minute. Jonathan Edwards, the guy who wrote the greatest sermon of all time in American history, he was reformed, wait, right, and it just kept going and going.

42:08

And I went, I have been, I had no idea of this rich history of our church and it made it a lot easier to kind of accept that.

42:16

I'd already accepted the doctrines of grace biblically and I tell people I was a closeted Calvinist for eight years from 25 to probably 32, 33.

42:26

I believed it, but I didn't even want to come out and say it publicly because of the stigma. I thought that was kind of with it as growing up in these two different churches.

42:34

Both churches agreed, man, those guys are weirdos. And then you get into the Bible and you get into church history and you get into these other leaders and you go, wait a minute, this is a mainstream view before just 150, 200 years ago.

42:50

This was how people saw God in his sovereignty. And that really started to grow my faith into my late 20s, early 30s, and just kind of took off from there.

43:01

And the Lord has been gracious enough to save me, pull me from my depravity. I mean, I was in the depths of it,

43:07

Chris, and I'm sure your listeners have similar stories that the Lord has saved them.

43:12

And every day I put two feet on the ground, I look up and I say, thank you, God, for the grace you've given me.

43:18

How can I extend that grace to believers and unbelievers alike? Hallelujah, great story.

43:26

One of God's stories of saving his children. Amen. And we are, let's see, actually we have about eight minutes or so before we have to go to the midway break.

43:41

I might as well, I might as well. I told you I could have took the full time with that segment, I could have kept going, but we'll leave off all the providential miracles and the things that he revealed to me through his word.

43:53

And we can do that on another episode, but God is good. And we do have a listener,

43:59

Belinda in Dover, Delaware. And Belinda asks, have any of your family and friends from the days when you were an anti -Calvinist become your enemies now that you are thoroughly reformed?

44:17

Become my enemies. Well, I would say not my enemies. I still have some friends from that era that I preach the gospel to them.

44:26

I witness, I try to live in a principled biblical way that would reflect

44:31

Christ's witness to them. Some have become saved, some have not. Some are pastor's kids and people

44:38

I went to with church when I was young, and because of that kind of legalism, have deconstructed and turned away from Christ and said,

44:47

I don't want anything to do with it. I don't think with the reformed aspect of it, what

44:53

I do is when I tell people that, they go, oh, you know, I had one pastor tell me, oh, you're a big sovereignty guy then, huh?

44:59

And I went, yeah, as Christians, we all should be big sovereignty guys. God is sovereign, it's one of his characteristics.

45:06

So it varies, you know, when you bring up the C word to some kind of evangelicals and people may be in the, you know, assemblies of God or something where they're a little more liberal or I would say charismatic.

45:19

Some of them, they're back stiffing up a little bit, but if I just sit down with them and believe me, I had a three or four year cage stage as well.

45:26

And for all those reformed Calvinistic folks out there, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You're so excited about these doctrines.

45:31

You go, I just have to tell you, we're gonna have a three hour conversation about it. I'm not gonna let you go. And they're just, you know, eyes are glossing over.

45:39

After that, I've realized, I ask believers and non -believers alike a lot of the same questions.

45:44

What do you believe about God? Who was Christ? What is the gospel? And then when even for believers,

45:50

I repeat back and I go, okay, this is what I believe. And here are the scriptural evidences for it.

45:56

A lot of my non -reformed folks and I'm reformed Presbyterian. So I use the word reformed very specifically too.

46:03

Sometimes reformed and Calvinistic are interchanged. But I would say some of my non -Calvinistic folks, they look at me and they go, well, we believe the same thing.

46:12

And I go, yeah. And I don't think you're really an Arminian. You believe God's sovereign. You believe about predestination.

46:18

It's mentioned 27 times in the Bible. You believe that God saved exactly who he wanted to save.

46:23

You believe in eternal security. You just haven't been taught the doctrines of grace. You believe it.

46:29

And that's what I find most of the time, Chris, is we have Christians sitting in pews and chairs for generations, for decades.

46:38

And outside of their two or three talking points, they don't know a whole lot about what the Bible says or theology in general.

46:44

And I'm not saying that from a place of condescending or being prideful. I'm saying that I believe shepherds and pastors have done their congregants a disservice over the last 30 or 40 years in Western Christianity and actually teaching

46:57

Christ and actually teaching the word of God and expositing it correctly. Amen.

47:04

And we have, excuse me, we have another question from Flynn, as in Errol Flynn.

47:13

Flynn in Whirlwind, West Virginia. And Flynn asks, are you concerned about the infiltration of the charismatic movement into the

47:27

Reformed community? It seems that many more charismatics who used to be exclusively

47:33

Arminian are now becoming Calvinists, and there is a lot more interaction between the two than there was before.

47:43

Well, look, first of all, let me be clear on what I believe. I believe charismatics are my brothers in the

47:50

Lord. If they hold to orthodoxy in who Christ is, the Trinitarian view, and they're within that orthodoxy,

47:58

I think it's a secondary issue. I think it's a pretty big secondary issue, but they're brothers in the faith. Now, I think sometimes if you get too far into that camp, just like in the

48:08

Reformed church, okay, you get too far into one certain area of theology and you allow it to become a primary doctrine.

48:15

Well, that's the very definition of legalism. You take a secondary doctrine, you put it in that middle orthodox kind of circle, and now you have all kinds of shenanigans going on.

48:25

What I found and what I saw is back in 2004 during that, what was it, Chris?

48:30

What was it? The new Reformed, Young, Restless, and Reformed. And you had the Matt Chandlers and the

48:36

Mark Driscolls and all these guys kind of going, hey, this is the way. And all the Calvinists were going, yeah, we've been talking about this for years.

48:44

I'm glad to see this is kind of getting some resurgence. I saw them become disenfranchised with that because they were trying to put a new twist on Calvinism.

48:53

And then you have guys like Matt Chandler and Mark Driscoll who have forsaken the doctrines of grace, maybe not so much

49:01

Matt Chandler, but really embrace charismatic. So I've kind of seen it differently.

49:07

I don't know if I've seen a lot of charismatics kind of, when they say infiltrating the

49:15

Calvinistic ranks, it almost sounds nefarious. I don't think it's nefarious. But I do think we should be open with dialogue with our brothers and sisters in the

49:23

Lord that might incorrectly divide a theology or doctrine that could be detrimental to how they view

49:30

Christ, serve him and witness. Absolutely. And I would say that could be in any theology or doctrine that you weight too heavily outside of orthodoxy.

49:38

Wouldn't you say, Chris? Oh, yeah. And in fact, I think it's wonderful and glorious and exciting news whenever I hear about charismatic and Pentecostal folks becoming reformed in their soteriology.

49:51

Amen. I just am uncomfortable with those in the more extreme movements of those charismatic and Pentecostal circles.

50:06

I know that my friend, Justin Peters, says that the fringe of Pentecostalism are those that are sane and not given to extremes.

50:18

So in other words, he thinks that's a minority. But I have many, many brothers and sisters and friends who are charismatic and Pentecostal.

50:28

In fact, the show is even financially supported by those from Pentecostal and charismatic backgrounds.

50:37

So that is not softening my view because of the finances coming in.

50:45

But in fact, it's amazing to me how many charismatics and Pentecostals support the show, knowing of my position and knowing of the guests that I have on, even specifically speaking out against the perpetuity of signed gifts.

51:03

But in fact, I remember a local Assemblies of God pastor,

51:11

Bobby Lloyd in Amityville, Long Island, where I'm from, when I used to air the program,

51:17

Iron Trip and Zion Radio, out of WNYG Radio in Babylon, Bobby used to call in a lot because we used to have call -ins back then and not email questions.

51:30

And Bobby used to call in and he'd say, love what you're doing, brother, love what you're doing.

51:36

And I'd say, you do know that I'm very opposed to the perpetuity of the signed gifts and I'm not a charismatic or Pentecostal.

51:46

And he used to say, I know, brother, but keep doing what you're doing. Right. So, well.

51:55

If we have, do we have time or are we going to a break? We have about 90 seconds. I'll tell you,

52:01

I just want to tag that very quickly too. What I found is a lot of charismatics to admire the theology of the

52:09

Calvinistic view because it is rooted in the word of God. And sometimes when you're kind of in that charismatic, very

52:15

Pentecostal circles, it kind of feels like you're just floating out there on an island because everything is very emotional and sense -driven instead of truth and biblical driven.

52:25

Now I'm not saying they're unbiblical. I have, I love my charismatics. I'm saying you can get into that area.

52:30

So you see guys like Benny Hinn or Todd White that will have a season of repentance and go, oh my gosh, we need to get back to preaching the word and the truth of God and all these things.

52:41

But it's such a pull for those guys in the far reaches of the Pentecostal movement to then slip back in to that prosperity gospel or faith message or healing ministry that has garnered them so much fame and fortune.

52:55

And for that, I feel sad. And I'm not painting all charismatics with the brush of Benny Hinn, also too, by the way.

53:02

I've got some great brothers and sisters in the Lord that I love that are charismatic. No, and there are many, many, many charismatics and Pentecostals who would publicly denounce people like Benny Hinn as false teachers and heretics.

53:16

Amen. We have to go to our midway break right now. Please write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back. Chris Arnzen here, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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01:08:08

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01:11:00

Dead Men Walking Podcast. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Gives your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

01:11:08

Well, one of the reasons I thought that this would be an ideal topic looking for every avenue possible to be salt and light in your local community is because not only do you conduct a podcast which is in a sense reaching out to the community, although that's primarily going to have a

01:11:33

Christian audience, you are and have been an elected county commissioner.

01:11:39

I'm assuming that one of the motivations for you even running for that is to import by the grace of God your worldview, your

01:11:54

Christian and biblical worldview into the arena of politics and into the community so it would benefit from that very same worldview.

01:12:04

Why don't you pick up there and why you even began to contemplate this? Sure. Thanks, Chris.

01:12:12

Yeah, it's one of those things where you look at a situation and you say, am

01:12:20

I going to be a bystander or am I going to do something about this? I remember in high school, the last two years of my high school career,

01:12:28

I went to public school and it was very interesting. I did my senior thesis on the buying of Congress, right?

01:12:37

Everyone else is doing it on a rock band or maybe a poet or a historical figure.

01:12:43

And my English teacher said, what, you're doing it on the buying of Congress? And I said, yeah,

01:12:48

I don't like the hypocrisy of Congress. She goes, why do you even care? So I remember at a very young age seeing things happening in the political sphere that I just was not very happy with.

01:13:01

And then once being saved, understanding, oh, what the role of the civil government is, how they're supposed to serve us under God, why he's instituted it.

01:13:13

So having that understanding about eight or nine years ago, well, before that,

01:13:19

I'll back up just a minute. I was a legislative liaison at our state Capitol. I've been at a kitchen cabinet advising for senators and representatives for legislation.

01:13:30

You have a congressman send me an email and go, hey, my legislative director is going to send you something that we're putting into committee.

01:13:37

What do you think about it? What do you think the conservatives will think about it? What do you think the liberals will think about it?

01:13:42

Because also too, you have to realize most politicians are always hedging their bets and they wanna know how they're gonna be perceived.

01:13:49

I say most, I'm definitely not one of those. And I don't even like the P word politician. I'm a elected official.

01:13:55

I'm a public servant because I'm there to serve at the pleasure of the constituents, but was involved in that world.

01:14:02

And then in 2015 moved to an area, I had some questions for my County Commissioner that he was supposed to answer.

01:14:09

He was a left -leaning Democrat in my district, which was 55 %

01:14:16

Dem and 45 % Republican or more conservative. And he said, that's not my problem.

01:14:23

You figure it out. And I went, well, I can just, I'll just run for your seat then and I'll fix the problem.

01:14:29

Cause that's sometimes how I get. And I suppose anyone like you and I, Chris, who are kind of go -getters or entrepreneurs or kind of build our own thing.

01:14:38

We just go, well, I'll roll my sleeves up and I'll do it then if you're not gonna do it. So everyone told me

01:14:44

I was crazy. I just moved to the area six months prior. He was, had been in the community for 40 plus years, owned two businesses.

01:14:51

His wife was a school board member and you can't win. So I went out and I knocked 6 ,000 doors, talked to tens of thousands of people, ran through a couple pairs of tennis shoes and just introduced myself and won that first election by 30 votes, the smallest margin ever in that district.

01:15:09

And then proceeded to run again in 18, 20, 22, and now running again in 24. And I have found it very rewarding to help problem solve for constituents.

01:15:20

But also I found that most people appreciate my worldview because my worldview is based on integrity and righteousness and being honest and being forthright and upfront and saying what

01:15:33

I'm going to do and do what I'm going to say and treating people fairly and with respect and calling out evil and doing what is right.

01:15:42

And that is the biblical worldview. And if we had more public servants, more elected officials, more politicians that actually just didn't run, hey,

01:15:52

I'm a Christian and I'm conservative, but then once get to office, leave that behind and do things that are self -serving and that would help them get reelected.

01:16:02

Easier, but instead stood on godly principle. And I will say it's easier for me to do that at the local level than it is sometimes for those at the state and federal level.

01:16:12

So I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to throw rocks in a glass house, so to speak.

01:16:19

But at the same time, if we had more politicians that did that, I think this country would be a different place.

01:16:25

And even most believing, professing elected officials that even understood the role of government, according to Romans 13, would have a different view of what it is they're doing at their state

01:16:38

Capitol or in Washington, DC. But you're right, Chris, I've absolutely taken my biblical worldview and the role of the civil government and have incorporated that into my county board, which sometimes leaves me on the outs with other commissioners, but I'm a pretty convincing guy.

01:16:55

And when I think I'm doing something correct or right, I can usually get others on board with that too, because I'm also pretty stubborn, which sometimes can be a blessing and a curse when you're an elected official.

01:17:08

Now, what would be the specific roles and responsibilities and duties of a county commissioner?

01:17:15

Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, we all remember that, you know, from civics in probably, oh,

01:17:24

I don't know, early high school or maybe junior high, kind of how the government works. You have the legislative, the judicial and the executive branches at the federal level.

01:17:33

Obviously the president is the head of the executive. The Congress is the legislative. The Supreme Court is the judicial.

01:17:39

You have that repeated at the state level as our forefathers very appropriately foresaw that states needed rights.

01:17:48

So you have a governor, which is essentially the head of the executive, the little president of the state. And then you have the state

01:17:54

Supreme Court. You have the state legislature and the state Senate. And the county commissioner or the county board is the legislative branch of the county.

01:18:07

So a smaller form of that underneath the state, we can create ordinances and resolutions that can then be passed down to townships, cities and villages.

01:18:19

We do very little of that in Monroe County, where I live. We are more budgetary. So we sit over any of the budgetary aspects of a county wide organization.

01:18:29

So a county sheriff, we are over their budget. A county health department, we're over their budget.

01:18:34

County library systems, road commissions, which are county -based in Michigan. It's all a little bit different in different states, but essentially very budgetary in the sense that our job is to balance the county budget every year and make sure those taxpayer funded programs are funded and funded responsibly.

01:18:54

67, 65, 67 % of my $58 million budget comes from property taxes.

01:19:01

And that's where most counties are funded through property taxes. Now we can have that discussion if we should abolish the property tax, which

01:19:08

I'm in favor for. And most commissioners go, how can you be in favor to abolish your own budget?

01:19:14

65 % of it. And I haven't got any of the other county commissioners on board with that. And we'd have to rewrite a state law to do that in Michigan.

01:19:21

But that's a whole other discussion in and of itself. Now, having those as your roles and duties and responsibilities, what are the occasions that arise, how you can be open about your

01:19:38

Christian faith, your biblical worldview, and how you may wind up sometimes in conflict over those things with your colleagues and other elected officials?

01:19:50

Yeah, another great question. I have, well, I'll give you a good example. It happened right before COVID broke out in 2020.

01:19:58

We had some stuff going around in other states where governors were calling their states sanctuary cities.

01:20:07

I don't know if you remember that, but they're sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants and things like that. Well, I had this idea.

01:20:13

We had a governor at the time, Governor Whitmer, and she's still a governor to this day, an absolutely horrible governor,

01:20:20

I will say. I'm a far leftist and got national praise from being

01:20:26

Joe Biden's kind of whipping boy for COVID. But in early 2020,

01:20:32

I saw an attack on Second Amendment rights. And I am a big believer in the Second Amendment.

01:20:37

I conceal carry. I believe the best gunfight is the one that doesn't happen. But I also believe that I have a right to self -defense, to protect my family, protect my loved ones, my property, and things of that nature, given to me inalienable rights by God and laid out in the

01:20:53

Bill of Rights in the Constitution. Now, remember, the Constitution does not give us those rights. They're there inalienably from our creator,

01:21:00

God, but the Constitution lays those out and says, hey, government, you have to protect those rights. You shall not impede them.

01:21:06

You shall not infringe them. They are a negative list of rights that says you don't give them to us. You must protect them for the people.

01:21:12

And obviously we've seen those rights being eroded and impeded and infringed by the federal government for quite a while.

01:21:17

But January of 2020, I said, I wanna write a resolution that says we are a sanctuary county for the

01:21:24

Second Amendment. There is nothing that the governor can say. There's nothing that our sheriff's office can do.

01:21:31

There's nothing that could impede or infringe the Second Amendment right of the residents of Monroe County. And I had a board of seven

01:21:38

Republicans and two Democrats, and every one of them said, that is just, we can't do that. We're wading into political waters there and to say that we can't, we don't want any part of it.

01:21:49

So I was on the outs even with my Republican colleagues because they didn't wanna get into the politicalness of guns and Second Amendment, things like that.

01:21:59

Well, about 500 Second Amendment guys showed up to our meetings for about four meetings in a row and said, you need to see this.

01:22:07

It needs to come out of committee. And by and large, I got that resolution to the floor.

01:22:13

We got it to a vote. And once you get it to a vote, then politicians can sometimes go, well,

01:22:18

I don't wanna be perceived by my constituents who know I'm a Republican or a conservative to vote against something like this.

01:22:25

So now I'll have to vote for it. So a lot of legislation that is divisive will be fought for by Democrats and Republicans behind closed doors.

01:22:33

Don't even get it to the floor. Then that way I don't have to make a public answer to the constituents with a yay or nay vote.

01:22:39

Does that make sense, Chris? That's, you know, it's fought behind closed doors. So long story short, we get it to a vote, it passes.

01:22:48

And what it said in it, and I was doing it for Second Amendment. This is how providential the Lord is. I was doing it for the

01:22:53

Second Amendment. It said, if the sheriff's office institutes an unconstitutional law or upholds an unconstitutional law, we will not fund his budget to the tune of millions and millions of dollars.

01:23:05

And it was voted on and passed by our commissioner's board. Well, three months later in March, guess what we had?

01:23:11

We had COVID full blown. We had Michigan shut down. And I don't know if you followed national news, but our governor made national news in not allowing people to buy seeds from Home Depot, right?

01:23:23

It was insane. We called her, it's your little Mussolini here. Just shut us down in your house for a week.

01:23:31

You can't go to the grocery store. Meanwhile, her husband's trying to get his boat out of the water by, and this was recorded in national media by saying, hey,

01:23:38

I'm the governor's husband. Let me get my boat out so I can go on the water when we were supposed to be shut down in houses.

01:23:44

Well, guess what? For her powers, she referred to two laws, a 1978 and a 1942 law in Michigan, which were both unconstitutional, were a misinterpretation of the law.

01:23:57

Our sheriff calls us up and goes, hey guys, this looks unconstitutional. I mean, if I fund these mandates that she's putting down that says

01:24:05

I have to throw people in jail if they don't wear a mask, which she did. She made an executive order that said you must social distance, you must wear a mask or you could be jailed for up to 92 days in a $500 fine.

01:24:16

He goes, I wanna be funded next year. So I'm not going to enforce these. So in the providence of the

01:24:22

Lord, what I started out with was a second amendment right issue. Three months later, because of the resolution passing came down to us being one of the only counties in the state of Michigan whose sheriff did not enforce the ridiculous masking and social distancing laws based on a resolution that I'd put forth and voted on by the other nine commissioners and him saying,

01:24:46

I don't want to do something unconstitutional because I might not be funded. So there's a quick story of how the

01:24:52

Lord providentially worked something, but also just by standing up for a principle, not necessarily a, you know, the

01:25:00

Bible doesn't necessarily talk about gun rights, but it does talk about self -defense and it talks about the right to being able to defend yourself by standing on principle and something like that.

01:25:09

I found myself very quickly on the outs, even with my Republican colleagues, until, like I said, there was public support and I was very stubborn about that and thought it was something that should pass and it did.

01:25:20

Great. We have Humberto or Humberto from Bright Waters, Long Island, New York.

01:25:29

And Humberto asks, I know that it is a very popular thing very often to run for a particular office with the tagline that you are not a professional politician, but at the same time, what do you counsel people to do if they do have some kind of an aspiration to enter into the political arena professionally and they don't have any experience?

01:25:59

How are they going to know what they're doing when they get elected? Oh, that's such a great question from Humberto or Roberto.

01:26:08

And Chris, I have to say, I love these questions from around the globe. I love your reach and how you have both national and international listeners to where you can just communicate with someone in a question from states and states and countries away.

01:26:21

So, so cool. Yeah, so I get this question a lot. And honestly, whatever you decide to run for, which

01:26:29

I said this for 10 or 12 years, and it just became a hot button issue two to three years ago. I was telling people 12 years ago, go run for the local school board.

01:26:38

They control curriculum. They control millions of dollars of budget in just about every state, depending on, it's a little different in each state how the schools are funded, but the school boards are a thankless job to where you get paid almost nothing or near nothing.

01:26:53

But yet you wield so much political power over children and education and all these things and curriculum.

01:27:02

And I've been saying that for over a decade. And now we see, you know, Moms for Liberty and all these things going on with, oh, lo and behold, look at all these books that are getting into the schools and look at the curriculum that they're, you know, the

01:27:13

CRT curriculum that they're introducing. And why aren't we on these school boards making these decisions? Well, it's because one, most people didn't know and two, a lot of people, even

01:27:22

Christians are apathetic to local politics. But if you wanna get involved, get involved at the local level, go to those meetings.

01:27:27

If you go, hey, I wanna be on the school board. I wanna be a county commissioner. I wanna be on the library board. I wanna be on the city council.

01:27:33

I wanna be on planning and commission. So I know what is being built in my area and what are we allowing into our neighborhoods for our children?

01:27:43

Go to those meetings. That's a good way. They're all open to the public. Every single local politician or elected official is under the

01:27:51

Open Meeting Act, which means it has to be made public. So find out when and where those meetings are.

01:27:57

And just attend those. And let me tell you something. If you come to one of my board of commissioners meetings, or you go to a city council meeting, you go to six or seven or eight of those, you will get an idea of exactly what they do because a lot of it's very repetitive in nature, budgetary, grants, kind of you're dealing with the same kind of local issues.

01:28:17

So start there and become familiar. Befriend those. If you're a believer, befriend your elected officials and your representatives and say, this is why

01:28:27

I'm attending. I want to know more about what's going on in my community. And then from there, by the grace of God, run, run and go out and meet people.

01:28:36

Don't assume anyone knows who you are. That's the number one fault that all local and state guys, even national guys make.

01:28:43

Oh, I own this business. Oh, I was on Fox News once for four minutes. Oh, people know me. No one knows you.

01:28:49

They don't know you. They don't wanna know you. You need to go door to door and actually knock. Signs don't vote.

01:28:54

People do. Go door to door. Introduce yourself. Tell them what you stand for. Do it with passion and dignity and principle.

01:29:01

And if you do that, people will vote for you. Now you might not win the first time or second time, but if it's something that you're passionate about and that comes through and you have a convincing argument of why people should put their confidence in you and vote for you, well, then they will.

01:29:17

And I found when I'm at the door with people, that is much more effective than any ad buy, any sign, any radio ad.

01:29:24

I don't know, maybe not as effective as an Iron Sharpens Iron radio ad. Your advertisers are getting a great deal because we know you're the far reaches of Iron Sharpens Iron with Chris.

01:29:36

But my point is get involved at the local level. And then when you do decide to make that run, start local.

01:29:42

Don't go right to, oh, I'm going to Washington DC to change the world. Let me tell you something. You can change your community very swiftly by being on city council, county commissioner, planning and zoning, school board, library board, all those things

01:29:54

I just mentioned. You get down to DC, you're not even going to get a bill out in the first four to six years.

01:29:59

In the first three terms, you're going to run, spend a bunch of money and no one cares and you won't get any bills that affect us at all.

01:30:08

Start at the local level and work your way up if you truly are interested in changing your community for God. Now, do you have to be a parent of children in a local school to be a part of the school board there?

01:30:21

Absolutely not. You have to be a taxpayer and a legal US citizen. And most of us are, which is a blessing and a curse.

01:30:33

You have, in some school districts, people who have no children at all.

01:30:39

And they go, I think CRT is a good thing. I think transitioning children at eight years old in our public schools, yeah, we should do that.

01:30:46

I think we should have a transition room where when a kid comes to school and there's a county in Michigan doing this, they don't tell the parents and the kid can go into the closet and they change into whatever outfit they feel comfortable.

01:30:58

And when they come out, the teacher calls them by the name they want and they go about school that way for the whole day.

01:31:03

And then right before the parent comes to pick them up or they get on the bus, they go back into the transition closet. They put on the clothes the parent put on them in the morning and they come out and they say, okay, now you're this name.

01:31:13

That is a reality of not only California. California started this three years ago, but there's areas in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, the

01:31:22

Midwest where I live, Pennsylvania, where you're at, Chris, that are doing this. And the school board not only allows it, but it encourages it.

01:31:31

So yeah, get involved because there's people who are leftists and progressives who don't even have children, don't understand what it takes to raise a child in the admonition of the

01:31:43

Lord. And they're making legislation essentially, or they would call them ordinances or mandates for your school district.

01:31:52

And they have no idea what it takes to raise a child or why. They just go, oh yeah, I'm a leftist.

01:31:57

I'm a progressive. This feels right. Let's do it. And we have Derek in Green River, Wyoming with a question for you.

01:32:08

And Derek asks, what advice do you have when you are seeking to be salt and light in the community with the gospel of Jesus Christ and the message of the scriptures of maintaining a civil and cordial demeanor when you are often going to be interacting with the most heinous of advocates of evil, such as people who believe in abortion at any stage of development, people who believe that the school has more authority over your child getting sexually mutilated in a transgendered procedure and on and on and on.

01:32:49

This has reached nightmarish proportions. There was a day when conservatives and liberals could be easily cordial and civil towards one another because the differences were not as great as they are today.

01:33:03

I find myself restraining explosive anger and fury even when talking with people that have these extreme views.

01:33:10

What is your advice? Wow, what a question. That is so good too, because here's the thing,

01:33:19

Chris, and I think you and I would probably, our trains would be on the same track here if we really thought about it.

01:33:25

We probably have a righteous anger that burns against injustice.

01:33:30

And that's only because we are being conformed to the image of Christ who burns with that same righteous anger, who will one day set everything right, every knee will bow.

01:33:41

He will come back with a sword of fire coming out of his mouth that will cut down the nations. And we are being conformed to that.

01:33:48

So we have, rightly, a anger towards injustice and things being unjust, okay?

01:33:54

So with that being said, though, too, let's also remember we're fallen creatures. And sometimes the reason why we don't like something is because maybe it proves us wrong or it doesn't align with our team or our side, or maybe we just don't like that person and we know they're wrong.

01:34:08

So it makes us feel better to show that they're wrong or prove them wrong. And I'm talking that way because in my life,

01:34:13

I've had those instances where I've went, am I truly upset with the injustice or am

01:34:19

I upset with that? Or am I arguing this or debating this? Because I know I can prove that person wrong and that makes me feel good.

01:34:25

If you had asked me this question just five years ago, I would have probably said, I'll argue them.

01:34:31

The Lord has been so gracious to calm me down a little bit and say, sometimes when dealing with those people, those types of people who will look you right in the eye and Chris, I know you and I have dealt with this and they will look you right in the eye and go,

01:34:46

I don't believe it's a baby. I don't believe it has worth. I've had five abortions.

01:34:51

I don't care. And I'm grateful for every child I've killed in my womb. I've had those exact words said to my face, right?

01:34:57

And you go, well, how do you respond to that? Probably for me now, it is, yes, not arguing and getting upset, but I tend to ask questions now.

01:35:08

Why is it that you don't believe it's a human? Why is it that you're proud of that? Why is it that you felt the need for that?

01:35:15

I have found that most leftists and progressives, and I'm putting that, I'm saying that politically, but I'm saying even the unbeliever in general, the pagan and the secularist, they will paint themselves into not only a logical corner, but a constitutional, emotional and philosophical corner when trying to answer those questions because we know the reality in which we live,

01:35:36

Chris. We know that we have a creator. We know that biblical principles are true. We know, it's funny on Twitter, I just put up a poll and said, why can't the left meme?

01:35:46

And people said, because jokes have to be based in reality and they're living outside of reality, right?

01:35:51

Observational humor has to be based on something true. And they're saying men can menstruate and have kids and all these things.

01:35:59

They're living outside of a reality that God has created for us. So I found being as gracious as I can with those type of people, one is asking them questions instead of trying to convince them off the bat and let them convince themselves because many psychological studies have been done and it shows that if someone believes something, they will double down in their obstinance just so they can't be proved wrong.

01:36:23

People love to be right and they don't wanna be proved wrong and they will take that wrongness, that ignorance to the grave with them.

01:36:31

So kind of allow them to see where their ignorance is by asking questions and maybe just poking small holes.

01:36:38

If you have someone that is yelling at the top of their lungs, becoming violent, screaming and cussing at you, which

01:36:44

I've had before. At that point, I say, I will pray for you and I will pray that God reveal himself to you in the capacity that he chooses.

01:36:54

But this conversation is over. I'm at the age now, I was born in 1981, I'm 42 years old. I'm at the age now too, where I take a lot of Proverbs to heart and say, do not answer a fool in their folly and do not waste your time with the fool and argue with them unless you become a fool as well.

01:37:10

There's a point to where we have to choose our discussions and arguments and debates wisely and say, the

01:37:17

Lord deal with you and I will do the praying over here, but this conversation is over.

01:37:23

That doesn't happen quite as often as you think, but it does happen. And I think we have to do that.

01:37:28

We have to set those boundaries and go, we're gonna get nowhere if we're down in the mud with the pig instead of casting our pearls before swine, so to speak.

01:37:40

And that's not, I'm calling those people pigs. You understand what I'm saying? I'm saying we can't get down to that level and just become a screaming match when we're supposed to be reflecting

01:37:48

Christ in all we do. It's interesting, you said something about having conversations with women who have had abortions that they were making the claim that it's not a baby.

01:38:01

It's interesting that even though that was the primary rhetoric for decades, you would hear it all the time on television.

01:38:11

Oh, nobody knows when life really begins. Well, it's interesting that they would even, admitting that, would want to take the risk of murdering a child because if they don't, but people like Jeff Durbin, who

01:38:26

I'm sure you're familiar with, who is on the front lines of the war against abortion, or should

01:38:33

I say infanticide more accurately, he says in the 21st century, when he is actively involved very frequently on the front lines of doing all he can to rescue children from the slaughter at abortion clinics, every single woman knows that they're killing a child that he confronts.

01:39:01

100%, yeah. So I just thought that that was chilling and fascinating at the same time.

01:39:08

Yeah, and Jeff Durbin, shout out to him for all he's done, and one of my favorite things he does, I know

01:39:13

I'm laughing a little bit, but just when someone he's arguing with or debating with or discussing on the street will say, well, it's not a baby, it's a fetus, and he'll say, well, why are you using the

01:39:26

Latin term for baby? Just use English. Latin means offspring, means child. All you did was say, I don't think it's a baby.

01:39:31

I think it's a baby in Latin. And the look that half these people get, they think by using the fetus term, they're escaping some type of truth.

01:39:41

And he'll always just go, no, you're just using a Latin word for baby. And of course, if somebody that they know is thrilled that they're pregnant and are looking forward to having that baby, they will refer to it as a baby.

01:39:58

Is it a boy or a girl yet? You know, that kind of thing. But we have to go to our final break right now.

01:40:05

And if you do have a question, please send it in quickly because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

01:40:12

Don't go away. We'll be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a Christ -centered gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York and play our role in fulfilling the great commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth.

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But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

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Doug McMasters here. Former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

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In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

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God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

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I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

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That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

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I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

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That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

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That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

01:52:52

God bless you. Welcome back. I want to remind you that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

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Also, if you're a man in ministry leadership, you're invited to the next free Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon featuring for the very first time,

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Dr. Joel Beeky as our keynote speaker, who is founder and president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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01:54:10

and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Okay, Greg, we have

01:54:16

Sylvia in Kingsgate, Washington. And Sylvia asks,

01:54:23

Is it ever wrong for a Christian who is involved in public life to be vague about the

01:54:30

God that they worship and serve? In other words, without being specifically identifying their

01:54:38

God as Jesus Christ and using terms like God and so on.

01:54:44

Is that an appropriate way for a Christian to behave at any time? You know,

01:54:50

I can't think of one off of my top of my head because I just don't see that as a biblical example in the

01:54:57

Bible. I mean, Rome knew exactly who Paul served. The Darius knew exactly who

01:55:04

Daniel served. He went to the lion's den for it. Shadrach, Neshach and Abednego told the king exactly who they served.

01:55:13

I suspect that people in public life do that because they want to avoid the consequences because proclaiming

01:55:22

Christ is offensive to the flesh and to sin and to sin nature and those who are fallen and depraved.

01:55:27

So outside of thinking too long, I can't think of a situation where I would want to be vague or ambiguous about who

01:55:38

I serve, especially if I'm forward facing and public facing. That's a great question, though, because we see that a lot in public life.

01:55:45

We see that with businessmen, you know, CEOs. We see that in politics to where they'll say, oh,

01:55:52

I believe in God and they won't go any farther. Or I'm a Christian, which even that term

01:55:57

Christianity and Christian has been watered down so much. We've got to ask about five or six more questions to actually define what they mean by that.

01:56:05

Right. But yeah, in my humble opinion, I just don't see a biblical example of being vague when when proclaiming

01:56:13

Christ. Yeah, most people that claim to be Christian who do that, who acquiesce to peer pressure of liberals or whoever, or even people of different denominations or religions,

01:56:27

I should say, that are conservative is when they are asked to pray publicly.

01:56:34

You'll very frequently hear them just use the name of God and not Jesus Christ. It's funny you mentioned that,

01:56:42

Chris, because let me tell you a very quick story. I actually had my congressman and I'll say his name here.

01:56:49

He was a Baptist minister. Congressman Tim Wahlberg serves in the U .S.

01:56:54

House. I heard him pray at one of our local meetings one time, and he finished it with in the name of Jesus, I pray.

01:57:04

And I went up to him and I said, well, what was that about? I just noticed you say in the name, you know, in your name,

01:57:10

I pray. And he said, well, you know, I don't want to offend anyone in case they're praying, you know, some other way.

01:57:16

So I just make it clear that I'm praying that way. I don't say in the name of Jesus, we pray. And I said this coming from a

01:57:24

Baptist minister, but I think the politics had gotten ahold of him. He was looking and going, I don't want to offend.

01:57:29

I don't want to have to have a conversation. I don't want this being recorded and put on CNN or Fox News or wherever.

01:57:36

And boy, did I give him the riot act. And I said, look, it's just one word. And to you, it might not seem like much.

01:57:42

But to me, that speaks volumes of what you will concede for a little bit of security.

01:57:48

And we have a love -hate relationship. He hates when I call him, but he ends up loving the conversation we have.

01:57:58

And he's just glad it's not public and it's private. But to me, those are the type of things we cannot compromise on in any situation, not just politics, but business owner, or you're a manager, influencer at where you work, or you're out street preaching, or, you know, as you go into the highways and byways and marketplace, we cannot have compromise on who

01:58:20

Christ is, how he has saved us, and exactly what he's done for us and what type of, you know, who

01:58:28

Christ is and who we serve. I think we just see that too much. And now we're reaping the benefits of it as a country, of trying to play it down the middle, down the road, you know, middle of the road without offending anyone.

01:58:40

Well, this next generation is going to reap the consequences of that. Well, I want our listeners to be reminded of your website, dmwpodcast .com.

01:58:51

That's dmw for dead men walking, podcast .com. And don't forget about the congregation where my guest is a member and where he serves,

01:59:02

Christ the Word Church, located in Sylvania, Ohio. That's ChristtheWord .com,

01:59:08

ChristtheWord .com. Thank you so much for being such an extraordinary guest, as I know you would be.

01:59:13

I want to thank everybody who listened. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives, Jesus Christ is a far greater