Basic Exegesis and a Call from a Roman Catholic

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Travel, Jet Lag, and the Australia Trip

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon. Sorry about the voice, but unfortunately. Spending 32 hours in hermetically sealed tubes Does tend to cause you to be exposed to all sorts of things.

Feel better Than I sound but I would say to use a Star Trek analogy. I'm definitely stuck on impulse power. The warp drive is definitely not working right now, but we're gonna do our best. Welcome to the program.

It has been it seems like a long long time I don't even remember how to do some of this stuff. Do you remember how to do any of this stuff? You got the the thing started on time. That was good. Oh Thanks, great.

You were yawning right before the program started. That was great. I really helped to jazz me up get me going. That's that was good.

I appreciate that very like the 20 21st or 22nd century Fox. Yeah, I have that.

It was just set in channel I need new dilithium crystals and I think I Did watch Star Trek going out and coming back? It did help to it really does that was a fun movie and it was really helpful to get Time passing because when you have 12 to 14 hours to pass, it's very very easy.

You didn't like that Heresy. Yeah. Yeah your view of dad. Never mind, you know, by the way, I forgot to tell you one of the most common comments of everyone I met in Sydney and Brisbane people come up to me after I talk and They would say I listen to the dividing line all the time and Someone said to me and and I need to pass this on.

He said whatever you do, please don't change the music That I Evidently really likes the is the Steve camp music. So I just thought I'd pass that along that we have a specific request not change.

You know, it occurred to me the other day that we really don't tell folks. Where the theme music for the show comes from very much and where they can get it doesn't everybody know. I think we.

Presume that that's possible. That's possible. In fact, someone asked me what the song title for the closing was and I had to sit there and go I think it's pound on Wittenberg's door. Wittenberg's door.

Yeah. Yeah, and then the opening is run to the battle. Yeah, both by Steve camp and of course used by permission. Oh Steve. Yeah, it's correct so if you want to get those and you can get them from Audience one minute.

Is it not a 1m? It's a 1m a 1m .org. I think so. Yes. Yes, I think it is so you can do that, but it was There was a fellow who came up to me in Brisbane. Well, first of all, I had three guys in Sydney who came up to me at the end that first night when I was totally brain-dead and the Sydney Atheists show up and I had three guys came up to me and thankfully they're Reformed Baptists.

So I didn't feel like they were about to jump on me I think and They said we have a very very very important question to ask you and I'm like, okay. And they said where did you learn to correctly pronounce Brisbane?

Because all the Americans always pronounce it incorrectly and I breathe the deep sigh of relief, but another guy came to me in Brisbane and He told me that after he was converted he ended up in a seventh-day I'm going off memory here, but I think was a seventh-day Baptist Church and Even in that discovered that Arianism was being preached from the pulpit and The only thing that what he used to battle back Was the YouTube videos and There were a number of people down there that were commenting on how useful the YouTube channel was so again, just amazing around the other side of the earth and That can those kind of resources very very very useful to folks.

It was very very encouraging.

The Value of the YouTube Channel and Online Resources

Yeah, I would say that most of the phone calls I get are generated by the YouTube channel. Really?

Yes. Wow, of course, they don't seem to really like what I'm saying. Yeah. They've discovered there. Haven't you since. Since family radio played the debate. Haven't you other than us? I've got a number of emails.

Some very pleased. And others not. So happy isn't.

They tend to type in all caps and all caps and keep saying you never quoted the Bible and I'm just like Bible.

He wrote the Bible all the time. And and of course you all you did was ad hominem I know.

Yep, how do you. How do you. Harold camping was so interactive that holds up?

How do you go about Pointing out that the man is a false prophet without saying that he's a false problem.

You know, the scary thing is on May 22nd 2011 half those people will still follow him. Sure. They'll just be waiting for the new excuse. That's what's gonna happen. So anyway, so a number of folks back there sort of said hi to you to to the second voice on the dividing line.

Say hi to rich, you know, they they know you work hard. So it was very encouraging. It really was today, mate. Good. I might it's a note. I got a lot of that. I got a lot of but Australians accents are not nearly as thick.

No as Crocodile Dundee, but they did say that if I went to the Outback, it would be that thick Skyping with Cranmer.

Yeah, but he's not Australian. That's true. But he obviously has been affected because just about every sentence that he ended with mate mate.

Uh-huh. Yeah, every so yeah, that's true David old. Yes, one of the few actually there's a lot of Orthodox living Anglicans down there. That was that was the other thing was to meet the the very strange breed of orthodox 18th 19th century Anglicans in Sydney the Sydney Diocese down there and to teach it more college and stuff.

That was all really encouraging too. So already Discussions going on about New Zealand Melbourne Brisbane and Sydney again. Might have to divide that into two trips. Maybe do it every other year or something like that.

Because I don't know if I can handle that. Good. That's that's that's a long a long ways. It was it was good. But great times in Sydney more college. I put the debate up. Oh, by the way people kept asking Well, why aren't you?

Webcasting this stuff because I didn't have access to the internet when I when I have my little when we did the Imam Shams Yali debate which by the way, we're going to be doing again in November Lord willing in New York On Jesus in the Quran in the Bible, which would be a great opportunity.

But when I did that I had that cool art cool neat little teeny tiny PC but I had my broadband modem and My broadband modem does not work. Of course in Australia my BlackBerry did but I can't I can't use my BlackBerry to tether to my Mac or to anything else.

So that matter. And it wouldn't I don't think it would have allowed me to do that down there. Anyways, so I would have had to have access to the internet now when I was at the hotel. Paying 2750 a day for internet.

It was actually pretty good. But at the hotel Phil and I were at the the wireless was worthless. It would burst for 10 seconds and then sit there for 30 and so there's no way I could have done dividing lines.

I couldn't broadcast that stuff because You're saying am I out of town to pay for the expensive stuff today to see in the northern hemisphere.

We would call those jackrabbit starts I.

Think that probably would have been appropriate. Yes. I didn't eat any kangaroo. By the way, I was offered it I did. I said nothing. I would have been all over that man. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess I could have.

Well No, I could not have brought any kangaroo Jerky back for you because they they were really really strict about what I could bring and I had to declare my cashews. Going to go I Had hair I got some cashews and some M &M.

I have to tell it a quick story on you that you don't know about.

Great, David, David. Where's the where's the Skype's me? I control the vertical and the horizontal and He he Skypes me and he's gonna take you out to dinner that evening. Oh, yes, and. And he says, you know, good.

I may and wants to know where He can take you to dinner because we've got you in a in a very nice area of town and there's all these wonderful restaurants around and I said Is there a McDonald's nearby?

And you know people are gonna think I always don't eat at McDonald's that often, but when I travel he's thinking I'm kidding.

He's like you're kidding. Okay, come on now. We're gonna go for fish and chips, you know, and I say well, you know. Is there a Long John Silverstone?

You know now I do need to tell you a story about that though. Let me. Okay, go ahead.

Well, are you let me finish this though? What is hilarious is he finally gets the picture and he goes? Okay. So what we have here is a cheap date. And I said, yeah, that's pretty much what you got there.

It's gonna be pretty and he goes, okay. Well, I'll I'll tell the kids.

And we ended up at McDonald's and that's where I that they say that was after Seeing p91 at Macquarie University and we we had to rush we wouldn't have had time to do much One way or the other there. So we we did a takeout which is a drive-thru there, but They had this picture, you know, the Angus burger that we have here in the States, you know, that's a big burger.

And it's a good burger. But they had that same picture. But when you got it, it was as big as the cheeseburger in a Happy Meal. I'm serious. The portions there are one half the size that they are here.

They really really are so metric doesn't exactly Know it did not translate at all, but he did take me. Have you seen Finding Nemo? Yes, of course. Okay, do you remember when they get to Sydney Harbor?

Uh-huh. Do you remember the? Seagulls yes, they were pretty radical. Yeah. Okay, I now know why. Okay, David and I sat we drove out to the edge to the end of the of the bay in in Sydney and There's this fish-and-chips place I guess it's pretty famous fish-and-chips place because there's a lot of people around there.

And so we order fish and chips and we go over to sit on these benches. Well, there's seagulls. I open my thing up and Literally a seagull flew into my face trying to get the first bite out of my hand.

I It was I mean all I see is the bottom end of a seagull in my face trying to get my food and the rest of time I'm sitting there kicking at these things on this bench to get him back because they're just like and they get a little closer and get a little closer and I'm I'm worried that I'm gonna pick up a french fry and They're going to see there's a goal.

It's not gonna take a bite. I I could not believe it. So now I know why in Finding Nemo those seagulls in Sydney were so utterly insane because they are. It was this was real-life research that ended up in Finding Nemo.

So I thought everyone would like to know that. Thank you for letting me share that story Anyway Might be a good idea. You're probably get some some complaint letters now. And you talked about feeding seagulls, I didn't feed any seagulls they Sells off of my food.

It was it was pretty wild. But anyways, I do not by the way eat McDonald's that that often I really don't. Not when I'm here, but when I travel I have discovered there's one little trick eat Something that your body is used to and I will tell folks don't bother taking me to fancy restaurants when I travel.

Because I When I travel I eat small portions the first place and I just don't like it.

It's and you're definitely not used to eating fancy food. No, no. Nope. Nope. Nope. So, you know take him to the best prime rib place you can possibly think of I mean where prime rib melts in your mouth and he'll order a hamburger.

Yeah. Well, I went went to sizzler. I had fish and chips.

In fact, in fact, I asked the lady if the kids menu was still available and she says well I can upsize it for you. So I had the kids fish and chips thing. Yeah, and I'm just not no, that's not me. Anyway, but did have a great time down there in in Australia great folks and it is a strange place because it is so Much a mixture of the US and the UK and having been the UK now a good bit I can see that even in the language.

Sometimes they'll like GPS. They call them GPS the British column sat nav. But they call them GPS. So but then other places they'd use the same terminology at the British use. So it's a very very very interesting only 20 million people in the entire continent.

I mean, there's more people in the Metro, New York area than in all of Australia. So it's. It's very very interesting so it was it was a great time. Thanks for everybody who helped to make that a reality and Hopefully I'll get over whatever I brought back with me fairly soon, but it's knocking me for a loop right now that's there's there's no twist, but I like I said, I'm The voice is the voice but anyhow.

Like I said coming up in November. We are looking at in fact. I was just talking with Chris Arnz on the phone. He sounds as good as I do. In fact, he sounded worse than I do. He's got something too, but he didn't go to Australia to get it.

Trying to get the details hammered out for an early November date back east with Imam Shamsi Ali Jesus in the Bible in the Quran. Santa Fe. I'm heading your direction. For I don't think we have anything on the website on this.

Unfortunately yet I had hoped to get something up there, but I didn't get that done. But I'll be at the discern o9 conference at a Calvary Santa Fe. Yes Calvary Santa Fe. It's that Calvary. It's the same one.

I was at last year Dr. Bruce Ware and I and some others will be speaking and I get to speak on all my favorite Topics while I'm there. So that'll be good and Then two weeks later as the website does announce Dan Barker and I will be debating on the uniqueness of Jesus up in sort of Southwest a little bit of Portland at the end of September.

And then in October, I'm up in Montana and I'm also in Southern, California at the at the Southern Baptist of the Baptist. Sorry guys reform Baptist get together once to come once a quarter in Southern, California and I'll be speaking at that for a reformation weekend and then early November, New York and we're looking at trying to put together a Debate in st. Louis this time because I'm going there for my 10th year.

The first weekend in st. Charles actually first weekend in December there in December January gonna be teaching an apologetics class in Mill Valley in Northern California at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary and I think in February.

I'm supposed to be back in Georgia somewhere and also in the UK or going. So, can you tell I've got a lot of stuff coming up? Lots of good opportunities. It's going to be it's going to be a great fall as long as we stay healthy so with all of that said I appreciate your indulgence in talking about some of those so little things but Actually We have a caller on the line who can possibly help With spelling of the word exegesis, but let's talk with I know it's a very small screen.

It really it no. No, here. Let me. There we go, I Just I just sent the message over to. Anyway, let's let's talk with Gino in a place that I lived and for six years Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Just over in Camp Hill.

Actually, you know that. Yes, I went to Bible Baptist Church was baptized in Bible Baptist Church in Charlemontown, Pennsylvania. Went to Ross Moyan Elementary School and the whole nine yards. Wow, yes.

Well, in fact, let me tell you in 1994 I went back there. It had been over 20. Well, we had been 20 years 2021 years as I've been there and the weird thing is, of course, I left when I was 11. So I never drove in Harrisburg, but when I drove into Harrisburg in a in a rental car I never took a wrong turn the entire time.

I was there I drove directly to both of our houses directly to our church the whole nine yards and I never missed a turn and I had Never driven in Harrisburg before isn't that weird?

That is weird. Thank you. I always seem to get lost as soon as I go into like the Bay and City area. It's ridiculous. What can we do for you? Do you know Colonial Park progress area? But uh, you know, I like I keep going back to that one.

You remember brother Peter when he called and he was asking about.

Exegesis, Context, and the Proper Use of Scripture

Your view of justification. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah, I.

Remember I was uh, I keep listening to that over and over again. I mean, I remember thinking so wait a minute I got a little piece of that of the puzzle of how he does exegesis because the passages would discuss the topic first and Then makes application elsewhere.

Given what the inspired uses the term out of stuff, but I kind of wanted to get more detail. Like what is your process? For exegeting text like something I could use for Bible study. Well.

There it is a skill that any Christian really really needs to cultivate and it is something that takes some time but and while there are spiritual elements to dealing with scripture the foundational elements are the same elements that we would we would utilize in In analyzing any written text, especially from antiquity.

And and that is you you start with the the key Term and that is context. You none of us would want to have our writings. Whether they be emails or whatever else it might be interpreted outside of the context in which they were originally intended and.

Yeah, and yet that is that is probably the single most ignored Element. It's real obvious when you look at a Herald camping. Okay. Context nothing the Herald camping it the the whole text is is just this big Mash of words that you can form put in any form you want, but the problem is in a Roman Catholic context.

Context itself is frequently provided by the dogmatic teaching of the church rather than the immediate context of a particular passage of scripture. So there's there's all sorts of issues that go in the context which includes who the author is.

What his background is if you know, you don't always know. Well, yes. Somewhat, but even then we have some good idea. Given the author's knowledge of the Greek Septuagint something about the Judaism. That he would have been familiar with in what's called Second Temple Judaism in the first century and things like that.

So you actually can? Garner some knowledge of what the the author was like there. But certainly with a Paul or with a John or something like that, though. Those are important things, but you also need to know something about who it's being written to and that's very useful.

Definitely, especially, you know, what was Corinth like what was Ephesus like? It's very difficult to handle the first few chapters of Revelation appropriately without. Exactly all that kind of stuff is extremely important then.

What about? The next step of context is the author so you can look at Paul and look at how he uses language you can allow Romans and Galatians to help shed light on each other and. Then the next step down from that is the book itself the overall argument of Romans the overall argument of Galatians.

The overall argument of Philippians and that's where people really tend to break down because I I personally think a Christian who's been a Christian for a number of years should be to the point where you you certainly would have in your mind a general outline of Most of the major books of the Bible.

It's not so much memorizing every scripture in the Bible. I know lots of folks who memorize scriptures, but they couldn't give you a breakdown of Galatians or the argument of Galatians or things like that.

That's sometimes missing the the the forest for the trees shall we say. It's really good, you know a lot of Study Bibles would give you things like that, but I'm not a big study Bible person but if that's where you want to get it that that's great, that's fine, but it'll give you the the flow of the arguments and How it how it works and then you get down to the passage context.

And and of course you can even get down even more closely to the syntax of words of sentences and things like that, but so many people treat the Bible as if it is just simply a Cookbook where you open it up and you pull out a text and and there's a lot of piety.

That sort of promotes that kind of view of the Bible, you know people saying well you know I was praying and all of a sudden there was a gust of wind a breeze blew by and I looked down and My eyes opened and I saw this verse and I claimed it for myself and and you know We chuckle a little bit, but let's face it.

That is a very very very common form of Piety, but you're not allowed to question. You know don't dare question that or you're being a mean nasty terrible horrible person and you're unloving and you don't have the spirit and blah blah blah blah.

Unfortunately when that ends up being the stuff that fills the pulpit then you got a real problem, but. So anyways going back to Jesus context context context so vitally important I realized that as a young man.

Thankfully because I was already dealing with Mormons. And so when I took classes like Old and New Testament backgrounds and stuff like that I didn't fall asleep because I realized that was very very very important in being able to Honor the text by handling it in in a correct manner so.

That sort of descending levels of context is very important. Obviously the original languages are extremely important because while we have many fine English translations and we can compare them with one another and we need to know whether the translation we're using is One that is a formal equivalency dynamic equivalency.

We need to know something about whether it's literally rendering words or whether it's could be translating thoughts and things like that. So that even our comparison is knowledgeable. And that we're not using paraphrases like the message and stuff like that as if that was somehow a translation of the Bible.

From which we could actually derive theological truths. You put all that together. And you have a solid foundation upon which to work to do one thing and that is to pull From the text the meaning rather than Creating the meaning in my own mind and inserting it into the text and saying oh I think this could fit here.

I think this could fit there. One of the main things that Peter was doing was and this is something I've criticized Roman Catholics for doing for a long time. It's not like they can help themselves. It's what their leaders have done and defined for them in the dogmatic teachings of the church down to the the centuries.

So they're sort of stuck with it, but yeah it the analogy I've used over and over again has been you you go to the places in Scripture Where you have specific lengthy discussion. And you do you derive your theology from there?

And then when you look at other places that mention it in passing you don't create the you don't take the in passing references and create your theology from that and then overthrow the plain text and I've used the Instructions the the owner's manual to a car as an example you can look up the word lights in the index and Lights will be mentioned lots of times.

But there's going to be a section about the lights and you go there first because that tells you how to operate the lights and so On and so forth and if they're mentioned someplace else fine and dandy.

But you don't go over to the the secondary references and create some theology of that and then overthrow the primary references. And that's what Peter was doing and that's what Roman Catholics as a whole have to do because if you go through the text on Justification which is what we were discussing and you allow the entire chapters Romans 3 Romans 4 Romans 5 if you allow them to speak as a whole and work through that or John chapter 6 and Jesus teaching the synagogue Capernaum if you allow those texts to stand as a whole.

Well, then these idiosyncratic views that people develop over the centuries aren't going to stand up. And so what you what you do is you you go to these other texts these secondary texts create a theology.

And then overthrow the plain teaching that's that's what Rome does and Mormonism does and the Jehovah's Witnesses do and so on and so forth. And that's why I keep saying exegesis exegesis. It's the it's the marrow of theology.

It's the marrow of apologetics as well I see.

Like. You know, it's funny. My one friend is a Roman Catholic. Actually wants to be a Roman Catholic priest. Well, which I told him he was really like him and I'll have like little debates and arguments and stuff.

But it's good to watch him real. I'm trying to hold it to it with the text of Scripture. He's like, ah.

Well, you know anything well. And what's more is if he really is serious about the priesthood and you know. You can you can respect someone for wanting to be serious about their faith it's just a shame to be going that direction which is going to lead him to Taking an oath in which he is identified as an altar Christus another Christ.

That's the tragedy of something like that. It would be wonderful to see such a person come to know what the the true gospel of grace is and then dedicate that kind of zeal to the ministry of the word.

But. The education that he would receive is not education how to do exegesis. It's an education in philosophy and the laws of the church. It is not an education that is going to drive him ever deeper into the text.

I have not found Roman Catholic priests to be individuals who are exceptionally skilled in in the field of exegesis and and why should they if they don't believe in solo scriptura. Why in the world would you go that direction?

Anyways, so. But keep praying for him keep witnessing to him, you know and Say hi the Susquehanna River for me as you drive over it sometime. All right. Thanks a lot. Yes, good good, all right, well we try to help folks out.

All right. Thank you. All right, let's go ahead and take a break let my voice recover a few moments.

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Hello everyone, this is Rich Pierce. In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man-centered self-help program The need for a no-nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater.

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Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well. Support Alpha and Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

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Upcoming Debates, Conferences, and Teaching Trips

I am actually for those of you who are interested in such things, which you may not be but I'm sort of rambling today. Anyways, I'm working on a new opening and closing for the videos in high-def. You notice that YouTube went to the 16 by 9 Format, I don't know six months eight months ago I don't remember what it was, but that meant I would have to redo everything.

I didn't want to do that. Well, someone was a very kind. I know who it is. Thank you very much. I think that he is a regular listener to the buying line while I was in the the land down under. Where they they they they will not speak long Words they Abbreviate everything like registration is rego.

Everything's ends with an O or an E, you know. Put a strip on the Barbie barbecues too long of a word to say so you it's Barbie and rego and it's just really weird. Anyway, well, I was down in Australia this fellow 7 .46 months ago.

Thank you very much Lane. This fellow donated the flip video unit and I had seen these I think someone in England had sent me a link to these flip video things and it's a it's a little video unit very small but has a flip out USB thing and You plug it in to your computer and this thing does HD recording.

I used it last night I spoke in prayer meeting. So I used it last night and Wow is the quality high now, of course, I have to Pull that down a little bit to have any type of decent shot of getting it upload to YouTube anyways.

But I suppose if you start with a good product, it ends up looking better anyway, and so I'm redoing the openings and closings and In a 16 by 9 format so that it'll fit that new box. So I'm working on one right now.

Don't know if I'll get up tonight, but I am working on that stuff. So anyways We're very appreciative when folks send us really cool stuff like that, so We will put it to good use. I can't necessarily use it for my debates though because it only records two hours shorter debates I could I could have used in Sydney for example for the Abdullah Kunda thing.

But most of my debates are significantly more than two hours. So but I will use it for various talks and things that I do and stuff like that. So much much appreciated and I'm gonna try it In the office because it's HD so it might look real good.

We'll see what what sound quality looks like and we'll see see what comes out with that. So we will continue putting up YouTube stuff every time I travel and hear folks Talk about how they've been blessed by that.

Well that just Reignites the fire to keep putting putting that material out there. 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. I did have stuff queued up from William Lane Craig today We might get to it, but let's go ahead and start.

Let's go ahead and take another phone call with Michael over in California. Hello, Michael. Hi. Hi is the state still solvent or are you all? Going to the local pawn shop. I'm sorry, California. You're in California, right?

You know I Sorry a little bit of humor they're not related your question. Just I didn't know if because honestly once I went to Australia I didn't even know Brett Favre signed with the Vikings when I left.