January 6, 2023 Show with Kyle White on “The Believer’s Union with Christ” PLUS Michael McCarthy on “The Fellowship Conference New York”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania home of founding father James Wilson

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It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

And now here's your host.

Good

afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnson your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this sixth

day of December 2000.

What am I saying sixth day of December?

That's not the date.

Today is a date in January.

I'm not sure how I got that sixth day of December.

But.

We'll correct that later on.

But it's my honor and privilege to have for the very first.

Actually, he's not a very first -time guest.

I'm really fumbling things up this this afternoon.

I'm having a returning guest to start with.

And I'm having a first -time guest join us during the second hour.

I'm excited that we have as a returning guest today Kyle white who is pastor of Community

Baptist Church of Elmendorf Texas.

Today he is going to be addressing during the first hour the believers union with Christ and the

experience of that union in this life and We're going to be joined during

our number two by Michael McCarthy pastor of Christ Fellowship of Pacho Long Island, New

York and he's going to be addressing the fellowship conference, New York a

conference coming up in February where both Kyle white and

Mac Tomlinson and Some other folks are going to be speaking.

But it's my honor and privilege.

First of all to welcome you back.

You are in sharpens.

I'm radio Kyle white.

Kyle are you with us?

Yes. Yes.

Hey brother Chris.

Yep. I'm here.

Just had to unmute myself.

Okay, brother.

Yes, great to have you here especially to discuss such an important issue the believers

union with Christ and the experience of that union in this life, but before we delve

into that Please let our listeners know for the sake of those especially who

are unfamiliar with you and your ministry.

And if they have not heard your previous interviews on this program tell us about Community Baptist

Church of Elmendorf, Texas.

Yeah, sure.

Well, our our church was established in 1983.

So we're into our 40th year this year and I've been here for 23 of

those years and I've had the privilege actually of serving as

Pastor one of the elders at the present time.

I am the only Elder in the church, but we do Believe that the biblical model

is plurality and and we are praying that God would raise up Another man or

men we are a small church.

We're on the southern outskirts of San Antonio and We have

officially 62 members in our church and our attendance is

More than that, but we don't really focus on counting the numbers but but we do

seek to serve one another and See the demonstration of

Christ's love in the church and we reach out.

We're very mission oriented Both in supporting missionaries and in

going forth ourselves and Evangelistic ways and so God has blessed us with the privilege of being

able to represent him in our own area other places as well.

Well, praise God if anybody wants more details on Community Baptist Church of Elmendorf,

Texas Go to CBC web net.

CBC web net and I just want to let our listeners know or remind our listeners

that I am excited about a conference that's coming up in February next month and

This conference is going to actually be held as it normally is

At the church where I was formerly a member Before moving

to Pennsylvania where I live now and where I conduct this broadcast.

This is the Fellowship Conference, New York.

And although it's being held at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick

that is not the church hosting the The conference or operating it.

It is being operated by Christ Fellowship of Pacho of Long Island, New York who are

using the facilities of Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick and

I hope that as many of you as possible can attend that conference.

We're going to be talking more about that during the second hour with our Second guest

Michael McCarthy pastor of Christ Fellowship of Pacho of Long Island who will be joining us later on.

But stay tuned for details on that conference where Kyle White

and Mack Tomlinson and others Will be speaking.

So this is a very important aspect of.

The.

Christian experience.

The Christian life.

That perhaps is not focused upon often enough.

The believers union with Christ and the experience of that union in this

life.

What was it that?

Basically compelled you to want to discuss this very important subject today.

Yeah, you know Chris I I have personally been impacted by.

My own.

Meditations on this subject.

Over the past probably couple of years I've been afflicted like a lot of

Christians have with a more of a performance based relationship

with God.

And in my life.

And and while there are definitely Commands that we have from

our God and and and we're to live a life of obedience and all those things I'm not discounting any

of those things.

When the focus of life becomes that and then focusing on our failures.

It's so easy to be affected in our relationship to God and I

mean our experiential relationship to God.

And and so, you know when I began to see in Scripture the overwhelming

overwhelming emphasis, especially in the New Testament of.

This.

Concept.

It's more than a concept.

It's a reality, but the concept of union in Christ with Christ and

Christ's union with us, of course, you know, you see that even in the incarnation

of Christ, but when I began to Think more about it.

I began to read some authors and listen to some well -known men speak on

the subject it just impacted me and.

And it's something that I've been emphasizing to our church quite a bit.

Well as.

People like you and I are reformed Baptists We

strongly believe in the necessity of repentance.

To be.

Deemed as one who is truly born from above born of God without repentance

People are to be viewed as false professors If they

continue in a life enslaved to sin and Make

no visible demonstrable effort to Repent to flee from their sin and

flee to God We are to not only view them as unbelievers,

but if they are professing to be Christians We are not even to eat with them as far as the

scriptures are concerned.

So how is what you are talking about when you say? that you have

left a more performance based mindset when it comes to

The Christian life.

Now, I'm assuming that you didn't actually believe in a works righteousness gospel, which is a total false gospel.

But tell us about the difference of what you are speaking of.

No, well.

Whenever you read the scriptures.

You know the the Apostle Paul for example in his letters.

He.

He he spoke very directly and he and he called for example, the Corinthian Church to repentance

and and essentially scolded them.

But when he began the letter he actually began speaking to Those who

were in Christ.

He didn't he didn't begin by By a an emphasis

on what they should be doing.

He began with an emphasis upon who they were.

When he says the Church of God, which is at Corinth to those who are sanctified in Christ

Jesus called and But called

saints.

In other words, they they were saints.

By the calling of God.

And then you get to the end of chapter 1 of 1st Corinthian where he says but of him

You are in Christ Jesus.

That is God is the one who put you there.

He didn't put you there on the basis of what you did.

He didn't put you there on the basis of your repentance on the basis of your faith.

It wasn't he put you there.

It's of him.

You are in Christ Jesus who became for us wisdom from God and

righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

By the way, I'm reading out of the New King James here, but so so when

when the the thought.

And then Romans chapter 6, of course Is a classic passage on

the union our union with Christ in Christ.

And it's on the basis of that union when we understand who we are in Christ when we understand

that.

That.

That everlasting love of God in Christ.

We understand that we were chosen in Christ and we understand that everything that we are in relationship

to God Really begins and ends with that relationship that we have in

Christ that becomes the motivation for

everything else in the Christian life.

And so faith and repentance are

Fruits, of course of the operation of the Holy Spirit and regeneration.

And.

That is I would even argue a Outworking of

This union that we have in Christ and with Christ and an evidence.

It's like It's like what John first John chapter 2 And

verse 5 says but whoever keeps his word truly the love of God is perfected in

him.

By this we know that we are in him.

So The foundation of my

relationship to God in time and eternity is not dependent

on me and When that truth

Becomes a reality It affects you.

Um.

What do you think what what do you think are some of the most significant

ways.

That.

Our.

Union with Christ is Manifest and what that entails that

are perhaps Not spoken about or preached about or taught.

About enough even from the pulpits of Reformed pastors.

Most recently I've been affected by The the matter of

prayer.

When you know we are in Ephesians chapter 2 we have that expression that we are seated

With him and in the heavenlies.

That's kind of an odd expression.

Some some of these these concepts of being in Christ kind of Seem metaphysical to

us.

It's just sort of yeah, it's it's it's out there somewhere.

But it just seems sort of nebulous but when we are

actually conscious of the fact That we are

in Christ.

And so when we go to our father in prayer We are going

In the name of Jesus Christ, and that's not just a formula.

We are actually in him seated with him so that we have access into the

Holy of Holies and we're We're conscious of that.

I believe that it affects us so that we don't go cowering into the

presence of God there is that you know that sense of

Boldness going before the throne of grace not because of who we are.

But because we're actually Joined to the one who is our very high priest

we're in union with him and So it affects us in our.

At least I've experienced that myself, you know experientially it affects me in my

praying.

I'll give you another example.

Just today there were some feelings that came over me some sort of just

like I wasn't feeling as spiritual or as

godly minded as I.

As I would like.

And and then it just hit me.

You're in Christ.

And it was amazing how that affected in my attitude in my spirit in

Relationship to God just in that moment of having that thought Come to me.

And.

So the more that I Study and think and use upon what it

means to be in union with Christ

Then I am I'm motivated then to actually

Well, I would say it like Paul does in Romans chapter 6 I would reckon or you

know Think of myself reckon myself to be dead to sin Alive to

God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That's you know, what is that Romans 6?

And verse.

Verse 12.

I.

Know verse verse 11.

Likewise Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God.

It's in Christ Jesus that that's true.

It's not because of anything in me but because this is my.

We often use the word position when it comes to sanctification my position

then.

The.

Progression in my life is Affected toward actually

experiencing that sanctification in my life.

You know, there are other passages too that I think express a similar thing like

Colossians.

Colossians 3 You know, if you are risen with Christ set your minds or your

affections on things above not on the earth.

And the whole concept there in Colossians that

pressing of us to be and do and mortify and all the

things that are to be evident in the Christian life flows out of the

reality of who we are in Christ.

Now you made reference earlier to that glorious.

Truth.

Common commendation in Hebrews 4 16.

Where.

In the King James Version, it says let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace

Then we that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in Time of need.

And as the New American Standard Bible says therefore, let's approach the throne of grace with confidence So that we may

receive mercy and find peace for help at the time of our need.

As you may know there are Heretics who profess to be Christian,

especially in the word of faith movement that twist that wonderful truth and

I can even remember.

Gives me chills when I think about it, but years ago.

I think it was back in the 80s I was listening to a Christian radio station and Kenneth Hagen

the arch heretic of the word of faith movement who has Passed on

from this earth and I sadly have little hope that he is with our Lord for eternity.

But I can remember him Saying how sick and tired he was

of wimpy whiny Christians coming

to the Lord with timidity and so forth and he said you stand up

like a man and you Boldly approach God and demand what is rightfully yours now.

I know that that's not what you are saying, but how is what you are saying different from that?

Blasphemy.

No, in fact when I hear people talk like that It causes me

to wonder If they even grasp at all

what it is to be in union with with Christ.

And You know in that same passage there Hebrews 4 back up to

verse 14 Seeing them that we have a great high priest who has passed

through the heavens Jesus the Son of God.

I mean, this is this is this is the whole tenor of Of scripture really is leading us to to

put our minds and our hearts our affections upon that one Who has done all that he

has done and as he was doing what he did for us on this earth.

We there was a sense in which we were we were

are in union with him so that his life his death his resurrection as You

know Paul talks about in a number of places is really ours and it's on that basis that

we come Before.

Before our sympathetic high priest and and we don't know it's not a

name it and claim it mindset.

Oh, that's Despicable.

But it's a the whole idea if if we didn't have Christ if we weren't in Christ

brother.

Who could approach God.

Who could approach God.

But we we don't just approach God we approach him as our father and I know there are people who will

abuse that but oh, let's not let the abuses of heretical

teachers steal away Fundamental precious glorious truths from

us who are truly the people of God.

Well, we have to go to our first station break right now.

If you have a question for Kyle white on our subject today The believers union with

Christ and the experience of that union in this life, please send it to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

See HR is a RN z en and gmail .com.

As always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA

only remain anonymous if your question involves a Personal and private matter and since Kyle is a

pastor.

You may also ask a pastoral question a Press a question

on theology on biblical doctrine, etc.

But we hope that most of you will actually Stay very close to the theme of believe the believers union with

Christ.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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We're now back with Kyle white pastor of Community Baptist Church of Elmendorf, Texas.

We are addressing the believers union with Christ and the experience of that union in this life.

If you have any questions of your own for pastor Kyle our email address is Chris Arnzen a gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen a gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence just to remind

You Kyle and I will be joined during the second hour.

God willing.

By Michael McCarthy pastor of Christ Fellowship of Pacho Long Island, New York.

Who will be hosting the fellowship conference, New York?

This coming February on Long Island and that will be at Grace

Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick.

Christ Fellowship of Pacho is using Facilities of Grace Reformed Baptist in Merrick

and that will be giving you more details when Michael joins us during the second hour.

We do have a question from Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania and

Arnie asks is This union that believers have with Christ one of the reasons that

we who are reformed Believe in what it has been known as the perseverance of the Saints

and even eternal security.

Well, absolutely.

And in fact that is our security union with Christ

Also Is accompanied with it's not only us in

Christ, but Christ in us.

Which Romans chapter 8 makes so very clear if the Spirit of Christ

is not in you then you are none of his and that is the very That is the very

Power.

He is the very power.

That.

Not only gives us that sense that we are in union with Christ, but also

enables us to to grow and the grace and the knowledge of Christ

and the likeness of Christ and.

So there is that both perseverance and preservation of the Saints that are

involved in this union and and and I would just suggest this that.

That You know.

Be observant as you read the New Testament of how often the expression in Christ

Jesus or in him is found.

It's.

It's amazing.

If you may have even overlooked it you even get to the end of Romans chapter 16.

And as Paul is writing about the various believers that he knows, I think it's six or seven

times.

In.

Verses 3 through 16.

That he follows up so -and -so with in the Lord in Christ

he and so he's emphasizing that relationship, which is part

of the Fellowship or the communion that we have together.

This idea of union with Christ and I'm actually going a little beyond the questioners question in here.

But this idea of union with Christ actually is the I believe the fundamental

Truth that breaks down the walls of division certainly between Jew and Gentile

as Paul taught in Ephesians chapter 2, but between any cultural group or

Sometimes we call races We're in Christ.

We're.

There is no believer who is Superior to another believer.

We are one in Christ.

And so that has a huge effect upon our lives.

When we come to the realization of what this really means that we are One in Christ

and reunited with Christ and united in Christ it affects not only our personal lives.

But our relational lives particularly on the church.

Now perhaps you could clarify about what you meant by there are there is no one

Who in the body of Christ is superior to another Christian?

There are certainly those that are making a infinitely greater impact for the

gospel than others.

There are people who are Living out a more sanctified life in obedience

to Christ there are people who are more demonstrable and

vividly clear in Possessing the fruits of the Spirit and

and so on and so on.

How is what you just said that very powerful and important declaration?

How is that different from what I was just listening?

Yeah and I would say This that it's it's like the Apostle

Paul.

This is this was his attitude and and first Corinthians 15

where he He says I'm the least of the Apostles who are not worthy to be called an apostle because I

persecuted the Church of God.

But by the grace of God I am what I am and his grace toward me was not in vain.

But I but I labored more abundantly than they all yet not I but the grace of God

which was in me.

Now while that's not a direct statement of union with Christ.

I believe it flows out of that Thought Paul understood that he was

who he was.

Not because of who he was but because of who he was in Christ and

the grace of God that was at work in him.

So that I'll just give you a practical example when I when I go to

the prison and I'm standing before 50 some -odd men every week.

And I'm looking at these men.

I'm not looking down at these men as if I'm superior to these

men.

Am I many of them aren't even born again?

Some of them are but am I better than them?

Well in the flesh, I'd have to say No before God.

No I am what I am by the grace of God and if if any of

those men are in Christ though they are Incarcerated.

They have the same relationship to God that I do.

They have the same access to our father as I do.

I Don't believe that God looks upon us and

Distinguishes us from one another based upon our I would say our value

based upon our performance.

Now that's not to say that there aren't those who are more greatly used instruments.

I mean who wouldn't say that Paul was more greatly used than Others that were

living in his day or any who have lived since surely we don't despise the instruments.

But we don't exalt the instruments.

We exalt the Christ.

Whose instruments we are.

Amen.

We have an anonymous listener who asks.

I am going through some very difficult and frightening trials in my life but one

thing that comforts me among other things in the Bible is A quote

and I'm not sure of who the author of the quote is.

But I believe it rings very true.

God plus one equals a majority is what you are talking about

Reflective in that quote that I love so much.

God plus one.

Equals a majority.

I think what the I've heard that phrase also and I'd also do not know who What the origins of that

quote are.

But for what I have taken from that quote is no matter what we're facing in this world No matter

how many people are Attacking us either verbally or physically

If they are enemies of Christ and we are Christians It doesn't matter

what people may do and how many people may do evil against us.

Right, we plus God plus us or God plus me or God plus

one equals a majority and I believe that's what the quote is referring to.

Yeah, I suppose you could you could you could say that.

I would say that God is a majority.

He doesn't need me I find and so here's what I would say to turn it

positive.

I would say everything that I am.

That's a value.

It's because of who I am in Christ and I would say that I am no more

united with Christ.

If I fall or if I have a let's say a moral fall or if I am

soaring high in my experience I am no more united with Christ

based upon me and.

So I.

Don't know if that I'm not that doesn't sound like that's the point that that statement is making but

I believe it is important.

For the security of our own souls for the rest.

For the peace of our own soul.

When Hebrews 4 says labor I'm quoting.

I think that's the King James.

But labor to enter into That rest and I believe that rest is Jesus Christ.

And so our responsibility.

Let me say it this way that The experience of That

union That we have in Christ fluctuates.

Okay, but the fact of that union with Christ does not fluctuate.

So there is therefore now no condemnation

to those who are in Christ Jesus.

That's that union a language there.

Now those who are in Christ Jesus are

Known by their walk by their fruit.

That's another point that fruit if you're in union with Jesus Christ.

Like Paul states in the Romans chapter 7 if you're married to Christ, there's going to be fruit.

And in Philippians chapter 1.

And.

Verse 11.

Flipping there right quickly.

Philippians 1 in verse 11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are

by Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God, so it's our union with

Christ brings forth fruit in our lives and.

So maybe just reflecting back upon that comment I would say

Maybe I'll say it this way the most important relationship that you have In this world is your

relationship with God and Jesus Christ and from that relationship.

I.

Mean if God is for you who can be against you.

I mean you are yes, that's the actual biblical.

Direct from the God breathes word.

Statement, yeah.

Well, thank you anonymous.

By the way, if you are a first -time questioner You have won a free New American Standard

Bible, so if you could email me back if that is the case with your

full name, obviously that won't be disclosed on the air since you're anonymous and Your full mailing address

so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs .com Can ship out to you

a free New American Standard Bible?

Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and Compliments of CV bbs .com will

be shipping out it out to you at no expense.

To you or to iron trip and Zion radio.

Well, I'd like you now Before we close out this first hour of the program.

To summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

When it comes to the believers union with Christ and the experience of that union in this life.

Yeah, there's a hymn that That has a line in it loved

with everlasting love Led by grace that love to know

spirit breathing from above.

Thou has taught me it is so and I would just encourage

Those who are truly believers.

I would encourage you to ask Pray ask the Father to give you the best of

gifts, which is the the ever -present ministry of the Holy Spirit in you

to bring to life the reality of your union

with his son and in his son and all the benefits that come to you

because of that union and Then I would encourage you to

To live your life in that daily communion and

fellowship with God in Christ.

JC Ryle said this We must seek to know something of heartfelt

experimental communion with him.

Never never let us forget that union is one thing and Communion

another.

Thousands, I fear who know what union with Christ is know nothing of communion.

And I'm convinced that that communion is going to impact us in very

practical ways.

And for those who may not be Believers, I would just encourage you to cry

out to God in repentance.

If you feel the burden of the guilt of your sin that separated you from the Living God Crowd to him in repentance and

see Jesus Christ as the Spirit opened your eyes to look to him and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

And you will you will Know that union with Christ

and you will begin to experience that Communion now and forever.

Amen.

Well folks if you still have questions on the subject feel free to continue To email them

in during the second hour when Michael McCarthy will be joining Kyle and myself.

So we're not cutting off your ability to ask questions on the believers union with Christ.

You can ask anything in regard to that in regard to a pastoral nature in

regard to Biblical doctrine, etc.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen a gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state and your

Country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private

matter.

So as I said, we're going to be joined shortly by Michael McCarthy of Christ Fellowship Church of Patro Long Island, New York.

He's going to be introducing to you the fellowship conference, New York where Kyle white and others are speaking.

And this is the longer than normal break folks.

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Our.

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Write down as much of the information provided by as many of our advertisers as you possibly can so that you can further

ensure That you will successfully Put yourself in contact with their advertisers and we hope that

that will include Buying their products on occasion using their

services visiting their churches.

But when you cannot do any of those things There's one thing that you definitely can do if you really

love the show and you're grateful that there are people who support the show with their finances and

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of Pacho Long Island, New York.

Before we get involved in that discussion again We have some very

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doctrinally solid Church Like Community Baptist Church of Elmendorf, Texas or Christ Fellowship of

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No matter where on the planet earth you live I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches

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Well, I would like to now welcome to the discussion Michael McCarthy pastor of Christ

Fellowship of Patchogue Long Island.

Greetings, brother.

Thank you for having me Chris.

Oh, it's the honor and privilege is mine brother, and I'm so delighted that you are here with us for the first

time.

Before we get into a summary of your personal salvation testimony, which is a tradition we have.

Whenever we have a first -time guest on iron trip and sign radio before we do that.

Why don't you let our listeners know something about Christ Fellowship of Patchogue Long Island?

So Christ Fellowship is a Church, as you have already said in Patchogue, New York.

It's on the eastern end of Long Island.

We had.

Really the the church was.

The church became Christ Fellowship at around and I would say spring of 2018.

It was a group of believers that were already friends but we were a part of different local churches and

we were meeting regularly Friday nights at one of the brothers houses to pray and we

felt that it came to a point where God was calling us to continue meeting together in a more formal manner and

We decided to plant what is now Christ Fellowship.

Myself and Anthony quagliata.

For the past we're pastoring together for the past five years.

He recently had moved down to North Carolina to to pastor a work down there too.

So at the moment I'm pastoring by myself.

We are a church that Loves the gospel centered on the gospel.

We we have an evangelistic zeal to us.

We we recognize that the only way the church grows and Christ's kingdom has expanded is through the people going

Into the world and preaching the gospel.

We are a we are a smaller church, so things are very intimate and As for right now,

I guess what I'm learning and I guess what our church is learning as well as loving the simplicity of

the local Church, so that's really a flavor of what Christ Fellowship is.

We we meet together weekly.

We sing together we pray together.

We eat together and enjoy the Lord's Supper.

Amen.

And what would you be your theological positions that you stand most firmly upon?

Yeah, so we are not affiliated with a denomination for those that might wonder but we are Calvinistic in our

soteriology and I guess to pull the cat out of the bag I am

I am a continuationist and and what I believe how the gifts function in the church age now.

But obviously done in a manner that is that is obedient to Paul's commands and in 1st Corinthians.

So that is really the main flavor of our church.

Though.

I know that someone may hear the word continue the Continuationist they they have a certain idea.

We don't have Manifestations of the gifts as you might find in a Pentecostal Church.

I have I have yet to experience them though.

We long for that.

What what we do what we do treasure though is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Amen, and I understand that right now.

You're your website is really your Facebook page.

Am I correct?

You can also find us on Christ fellowship li .com.

Oh, okay.

I was unaware of yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Christ fellowship li .com great.

Now tell us about Fellowship conference, New York.

So back in back in 2018 after our church after our church had planted we

we had gotten contact with Don Curran and we reached out to him and we had asked him if

Excuse me.

This was 2019.

This was the winter time of 2019.

We reached out to Don and we asked him and Cindy.

Just such wonderful brothers and brother and sister.

They came down and and they had we had a small conference and we

Were aiming to mimic what what Anthony Quagliata had experienced at

the fellowship conference in Denton.

So then the following year we ended up getting in touch with Mac Tomlinson.

We got in touch with Tim Conway and once again with Don Curran and we decided to actually make it an

actual Fellowship conference.

And the first fellowship conference was in February of 2020 and that was just before the mayhem Ensued

especially here in the East Coast with the lockdowns.

It was a it was a wonderful time.

It's my only experience At a fellowship conference.

It's all that I know and I think the name itself describes what the experience is like

it's centered on fellowship and.

And I'll get into it a little bit more if you would like me to just that is the flavor of this conference.

Many conferences many conferences are about a particular set of set of doctrines.

But but this conference is about meeting other believers fellowshipping with them enjoying the Word of God together and eating

together.

Yes, I understand from having been a visitor an attender or

attendee of at least one of your conferences in the past That

there is no pre scheduled specific topic for any of the speakers.

Yes, basically you're you're leaving it up to each speaker to teach and preach

on whatever is burdening their heart at that time the most what

they believe they are being called of God to speak

on During that season in their ministry.

And so there's no theme of the conference and no theme of any individual message.

Right.

Yes, you're exactly right there.

There is no theme.

So you're not going to hear all the all the speakers at the conference over the three days speak on penal

substitutionary atonement.

I had I had one brother reach out to me and ask me what the topics of the the conference were

and I told him Evangelism.

I told him prayer Devotion to Christ and I said, I know I probably didn't help you and he thought that was a

very vague answer but that that is the that that is those are some of the topics like for example, the

the last the last conference we had.

You had you had ranging topics from revival when Matt Matt preached out of Psalm 83

you had Tim Conway preaching on the last day and judgment day when the believer

will be judged According to their works and then we also had Tim Excuse me, Don Curran

preached on distractions and he talked about social media and phones.

So it was it was a many different topics.

But I think somehow some way by the spirit they all had a unified message.

And that was we wanted to be better disciples of Jesus Christ.

Well, tell us about your speakers this year.

So the speakers this year are Matt Tomlinson Michael Durham and Kyle White who's on the show.

I have this isn't the first time I've actually met Kyle and Michael.

Nice to meet you Kyle.

And and I have I have yet to meet Michael too, but over the past few years I've grown a very good

relationship with Mac and I'm very thankful for him.

He's been a big influence on my life.

So I entrust these brothers wholeheartedly to to preach the Word of God faithfully and and to edify the church.

Well as I've already let our listeners know Kyle white who's been on with us for the first hour.

This pastor of Community Baptist Church of Elmendorf, Texas and my dear friend for many years

Mac Tomlinson is a pastor at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, and he's also an

author.

Tell us about more with more details.

The other speakers.

So Michael Durham, I believe is also a part of Mac Tomlinson's church as well and functions as an

evangelist at this point.

My familiarity with Kyle and with Michael Is online.

I've been very blessed by their teachings to the I'll be honest ministry and.

And that is really I would say how this this conference came to be both myself and Anthony Quagliata at the time.

We're greatly influenced by by many of the preachers and teachers that are found on that page and through

James Jennings ministry.

Which I'm very thankful for.

So.

So yeah, you know what can I if I can butt in here for a minute Chris and just say that I know both of the

brother of the other brothers and the one thing I will say about them is Perhaps I'm most impressed with the

spirit of those men.

No, I mean they they love Christ and they love people

and they love they love the truth and anyone who Comes and engages with

them will definitely be blessed for for the effort.

They put forth for sure.

But he's got one thing sure I would I would say that what marks what marks these men

is reality.

It's what it's one thing for a man to be able to to parrot a bunch of different Doctrines

that a particular group of people love.

But but there's a reality though.

I have not met Michael and Kyle yet.

I know the flavor like I know the spirit of these men.

They they they.

They are men that you could say they have been with Christ and that's been my experience so far and I know that

Michael Durham also.

Heads a parachurch ministry called real truth matters and The website to that is

real truth matters.

Calm Mac Tomlinson as I've already mentioned has been a dear friend of mine for

many years.

He's been a guest in this program a number of times.

He's also he in the Providence Chapel.

Have been extremely generous financially to iron sharpens iron radio and.

Have.

Sent in very generous financial gifts have advertised with us and I thank

God that during the last weeks of my oldest

brother John's life.

Who providentially lived near Denton, Texas?

He.

Had the privilege of having visitations by Mac Tomlinson in the hospital and

My brother.

Thanks be to God and his grace and mercy.

I believe my brother John made a very credible profession of faith in

Christ before he departed this earth and I thank God that Mac

was the human instrument that God used.

To.

Introduce in a more intimate and face -to -face face -to -face manner the gospel and

I believe that by God's mercy it Penetrated into the heart and mind of my

brother and that He did have his heart of stone removed and received the heart of flesh from our

Lord.

And it is now in eternity with Christ.

I'm very confident of that.

Well, how do our listeners Register for this or how do they know about more details?

In fact, tell us the dates.

I don't think we mentioned that.

So the dates for the conference are February 23rd to 25th.

For those that are a part of the public school system or familiar with the calendar that's at the back end of winter break

which is why Grace Reform Baptist Church has been so kind to us to allow us to use their building

during that time because they have a building They have at school on that premises as well.

The conference is from Thursday to Saturday.

So the first session is 630 on Thursday evening.

We'll have some refreshments for people as they as they come to the conference.

You can register at the conference as well in addition to registering online.

And if you just search on Google, I'll be honest or I'll be honest.

Fellowship Conference, New York.

You search Fellowship Conference, New York on Google.

You can find the conference there.

The date will be listed right on the title of the of the link and.

And the page is rather simple to to maneuver your way through.

So so that's where you can register.

Okay.

Well, let me ask you a question about the challenges

of being involved in a church plant and also a

Pastoring a congregation that as you said is numerically small.

There are those that actually prefer a smaller congregation

because they prefer the intimacy they prefer the the family like

atmosphere.

Everybody knows each other very well.

They are frequently in each other's homes.

They're sharing more meals with people more frequently and

There is an atmosphere about that that is positive on the other hand.

There are people and I know this from people that I have.

Seen.

Visiting churches and who have followed up with me with their comments There are many

people in fact the most typical thing I hear from people when they are discouraged After

visiting a church that they find is small numerically is

Oh, there's not enough programs for the kids.

That's really the The the the main complaint that that people that I know

or at least know of who visit churches and are disappointed with the small

size a follow -up behind that and

This actually Is more of a reason that disturbs me to

a pretty large degree is when people Are disappointed because

oh, they don't have a real Spectacular music program, you know, these people are

looking for Broadway Style or Broadway

level Worship music and you know, sometimes with an orchestra

and all kinds of special music and all that.

But tell us If you have confronted those issues or others and how you react and

respond to them and please Pastor Kyle chime in if you desire to with any

questions or follow -up answers that you you care to.

Yeah, the many of the convictions that I've come to regarding the local church have

really been learned by experience and suffering entering ministry with unbiblical

expectations for what the church should be.

I'm not gonna lie.

I think there was a portion of these last five years where I found myself embarrassed and

ashamed of the simplicity of the local church and over time.

This is something that I've learned and I think here in America we have.

We have false Expectations of what a church looks like what a church should be doing.

We go back to Acts chapter 2 and you see the things that the early church committed themselves to is the Apostles teaching to

prayer.

Breaking of bread and fellowship.

That's what that's what characterized the early church.

It was simplistic and I I've I've grown over time to love it and

By God's grace, I By God's grace.

He saved me from going down a road that not only would have been destructive for my own soul But also

would have been destructive for all those around me.

Placing burdens on on church members that I shouldn't or expecting certain things.

I I was talking to one brother of our church in our church recently and I and I think I I've

always thought church growth to be Mainly numerically.

But what I've learned over the past two years especially is that church growth biblically

speaking looks a lot more like growing in love and and Thankfully,

I've got to experience that as a church over the past few years.

So Kyle, I don't know if there's anything you want to know.

Yeah, I was just wondering Michael.

What is your background?

I mean, how did you?

When did you come to know the Lord?

I don't think you get your testimony.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

In fact, I wanted to do that.

Now.

I completely forgot about that.

Thank you Kyle for reminding me about my own tradition here.

Maybe maybe leave from your testimony and it just where you got to where you are.

Yeah, of course.

In fact include with that the the kind of religious atmosphere if any in which you were raised and what kind of

Providential circumstances our Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

So so thankfully as a as a young boy, I I grew up surrounded by

biblical teaching whether all of it was false or not.

Regardless I was surrounded by Bible.

Chris I know that you're very familiar with the Pentecostal landscape back in the 80s.

Oh, yeah.

Anthony has told me thank thank you for aging me.

So I I grew up in a Pentecostal church in the late 90s and

My God's grace all I that's all I ever knew and there were many extremes there were many abuses.

But the one thing I could say is that I knew of Jesus.

As I as I look to my my experience as a young boy and even as a as an adolescent

It was as if the Holy Spirit was sort of surrounding my heart with brush.

So as I grew older, I would say at around 19.

I.

Went off to college.

I went off to SUNY Cortland.

I went to go play football there.

I was gonna go pursue a degree in physical education and.

It was during that time where my my the faith of my family became my own.

I can't tell you of a specific point where the lights turned on but I could tell you a period of time where

the Bible.

Seemed.

Appealing to me and I may not have understood what was happening or what out what I was listening what I was reading.

But I just wanted to keep reading.

And then as I came home that summer going into my sophomore year That's when I would say I

experienced what Paul speaks of in Romans chapter 5 where the love of God was poured out my heart by the Spirit and

It was no longer me just knowing of it wasn't just me knowing of Jesus.

I knew him.

He was my Savior he was my Lord and it wasn't it wasn't like I learned anything new.

But it was me actually understanding the things I have always known and like I had said earlier by

God's grace He sort of lit a flame The brush surrounding my heart which was biblical truth

and it became the most appealing thing to me.

Ever since then.

So the Lord saved me at 19 and then once I had got once I had gone back to school I

couldn't help but tell others about Jesus to whether it was people on my team or whether it was

just others on campus.

And I immediately had a had a desire to actually teach others so there was a group of us that

I Realized well, I'm not the only Christian on campus and there was others there and we actually created what is a

ministry.

We created a chapter of what is called the FCA fellowship of Christian athletes.

And there was also another campus ministry called campus crusade.

Which would become crew and what we realized is all the men were joining my studies and all the women were going to

campus crusade.

And.

So what we decided to do was actually just merged the two and I did not go to seminary.

Like I said before I have I have a bachelor's degree in physical education and I have a master's in liberal

arts.

So, I I don't I don't have any formal theological training, but when I do speak to others I I

do I do say that my experience at Cortland as a college student.

I was there for five years by God's grace.

The Lord tore up my knees he crushed the idol of football that I had and and in

God's providence I was able to stay an extra year and actually devote all of my time to campus ministry and that really

was I would say Like my seminary I was learning how to use the Bible to counsel others.

We were going on we were going out on the campus and telling others about Jesus, though ever how uncomfortable it may have felt and

And there that's where I actually was able to actually make disciples.

And that was I was teaching week by I was teaching weekly going through the book of Galatians going through the book of Genesis.

Although I did not say everything correctly and I had theological imbalances.

It was invaluable to me.

I thought I was going there to play football, but rather I I Came to know Jesus by going upstate to a party

school.

So That's that's my experience at least there and then shortly after I came back home

I was longing for Christian friends growing up in a you know, once I had left the smaller Pentecostal Church I went to

a mega church here on Long Island and I could not I came to know the doctrines of

grace in the midst of my in the midst of my My time at Cortland and that sort of made me

an oddball in the large Pentecostal Church.

I was in I Was the black sheep no one answered my theological questions that I had and I and I was

very prideful and zealous as as many cage states Calvinists are and

You know, I found every reason to get out.

But.

Thankfully, thankfully, you know, I was.

I was a bit afraid because that's all I knew.

I didn't know of any other churches that held the same convictions as me at the time.

And thankfully I got to connect with some other brothers.

Anthony Quagliata, especially.

He can't tell you the great influence he's had on my life and the privilege I had to pastor with him and Yes, so he encouraged

me to leave the church.

I went to another church and then eventually I would probably say two to three years later is when Christ Fellowship was planted

and.

And that's really how I came to to be a pastor.

Now.

I was.

I Pastored prior to being formally ordained.

The church recognized me as such and then and then Mac and a few other brothers got involved.

My ordination a few maybe two years later now.

How did you specifically come to?

Discover the doctrines of sovereign grace and embracement.

So I was confronted by a few Jehovah's Witnesses when I have when I maybe six

months after being saved and I read the book of Romans through one time and I thought I knew my Bible and they

they fooled me.

They schooled me one day.

I went to my I went to my friends.

Went to my friend's door where the Jehovah's Witnesses were and they schooled me.

I couldn't articulate the doctrine of the Trinity and that led me as for most to dr. James

White who? Not knowing person a man that I have not known personally has had such a huge

impact on my life and Yes, I started listening to the dividing line.

I started consuming Everything he had taught on the doctrine of the Trinity

and as he always would say, you know Calvinistic Soteriology is Trinitarian

soteriology and before I knew it I was on my way home from school one day.

And I was listening through an exposition that he was giving through John chapter 6 and then ever since then I couldn't run from it.

So it wasn't it wasn't a big struggle for me.

It was actually pretty natural as I came to understand God as Trinity and how he saves.

Amen, well to just to give a Praise report

that you may not be aware of.

Dr. White dedicated his book the Forgotten Trinity to me and that's all that's

something that has blessed me for Years, that was approximately 1998.

I think that book came out and I can still remember.

Not long after the death of my father.

When I was being consoled and comforted by By James, he said well, I'm

and this is back in the day when we used fax machines.

He said well keep your eye on your fax machine right now because I'm faxing you something and he faxed me.

What would be the dedication page to the Forgotten Trinity?

So Wow wasn't a wonderful added source of comfort.

We're gonna go to our final break.

It's gonna be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

If anybody has a question for Michael McCarthy or Kyle white or both of them I would urge you to

send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence and Only remain

anonymous if your question is a personal and private one that I would like to remind my guests to please mute yourself

During the station break because everyone listening will hear every noise you make so don't go away.

We're gonna be right back right after these messages.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Welcome back and pastor Michael McCarthy.

We have a question for you.

This is from CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and I hope that CJ Attends your

conference.

Lindenhurst is only about 25 minutes or so from Merrick, so it's not that far of a

trip to where the conference will be.

But CJ Asks, how do you respond to people who may

say that the reason that the church is numerically small is That the

congregation and perhaps even the leadership are lacking in doing something perhaps.

It's evangelism or perhaps they are not having a stronger impact and outreach to the

local community and there may be even some people in the Congregation itself who start to

have guilt trips over this.

Yeah, well like I had said earlier.

I think a lot of the feelings of failure for a pastor and a lot of

feelings of failure amongst a congregation Has a lot to do with what

they are expecting in a local church.

Going back to what I had said before what it seems like in the New Testament the local church

is The meeting when the church meets together.

It is not an event rather.

It's the meeting of a faith family and really what it comes down to at least for

myself and the other brothers and sisters in our churches.

We have to judge ourselves according to what scripture commands of us.

You know the the the immediate thing is is for us to think well.

There must be something about us and maybe that is the case for some people.

I've had the experience of some people running away from intimacy that that in that

characterizes a small local church.

Discipleship is very hands -on.

It's life on life and some people are very uncomfortable with that so sometimes it has to do with us and I and I totally understand

that and and I have to have some tougher skin and Not be offended by that but

yeah, I guess the question comes down to well, are we doing the things that Jesus commands of us and.

And it's and it's really that if God chooses for us to be a smaller fellowship.

Then what my job as a pastor is to simply be faithful and that's what I'll be judged on Judgment Day is

according to my faithfulness.

Yes, amen, in fact, in fact, I've heard it very wisely put That

people should be more concerned With the spiritual growth of

individuals in a congregation rather than the numerical growth.

Yes, and.

Pastor Carl white.

Do you have anything to follow up with on that?

Yeah, just kind of thinking over the course of my years been here 23 years.

I Was in a church before this, but this one for 14 years, which was a very small congregation.

This was not a big one, but I've seen fluctuation over the years and there is a

temptation to try to accommodate In a number of different ways, but we have to fight

that we have to fight that and if you know, one of the things that

Sometimes people will say is they feel disconnected.

And so they want to go to a church where they feel connected and then other people want to go to a church where they Are not

noticed one thing.

I will say about a small church is that every hiccup is felt?

You can have some of the same things happen in a large church and no one even notices it but in a smaller church

Everything is noticed.

Everything is felt.

That's not always a bad thing, but sometimes it is a bad thing sometimes the smaller churches we need

to learn to let some things go and Not not so that everything is not a big deal

and so that's something that we can learn as smaller churches that I think may Help us in our growth because it

projects a spirit to those coming in that you know.

You know, we're not gonna jump all over every little difference.

Or, you know every little problem that we may see we're we're going to we're going to be tolerant

As much as we can be biblically.

Yes, I can recall vividly.

Having a conversation with an acquaintance of mine from New York City

who was a member of a very large charismatic church and I

asked her so tell me about your elders there.

Do you think that they are?

Really caring shepherds.

And are they theologically sound.

And she said well, I've never met any of them.

So.

There you have there you have the dangers of some large churches.

I have to remind myself because I have a tendency to be overly critical about very large churches.

But I have to remind myself there are churches like Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California

Where John MacArthur is the pastor, which is a very large church and also even Metropolitan Tabernacle

in the 19th century.

Which was passed by Charles Haddon Spurgeon so we can't automatically dismiss a large church either

with some which some reform people have a tendency to do and.

By the way, it reminded me when I just thought of Charles Haddon Spurgeon that you are in good

company pastor Mike.

In that.

You were speaking earlier about having no formal education.

Well, that should be.

That should be no reason for anybody to take you for granted or dismiss you because Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Didn't have any formal education either.

So.

That does not automatically mean in some way that a pastor is inferior.

Oh my goodness.

But.

Thank you for that one Chris, but but perhaps since we are already reaching the end mark of

our time together, I'll let first you pastor Mike McCarthy.

Have several minutes of uninterrupted time to give to our listeners what you most want etched in their hearts and

minds after we go off the program said I.

I.

Guess what I what I would like to just but I would like to have everyone if like you had said etched in their hearts

and minds is.

To go be a faithful churchmen.

Go love the brethren like make take risks in loving them.

It's one thing.

It's one thing to attend a meeting weekly.

It's one thing to sit in a seat.

It's it's one thing to listen to a sermon but it's a whole other thing to truly love as Jesus

commands us to love one another as I've as I've been learning myself in pastoral

ministry is.

You don't you don't just want to see faces.

You want to know people you want to you want to know about them.

You Want to find ways that you could better serve them and especially when the church meets.

I I don't know how your how everyone else's meetings might look.

But come to a meeting not simply to be a consumer but be a contributor.

Come with something that you could bring to the table whether that's Knowing that you have to go to a

particular brother and sister to pray for them whether that's a word of encouragement.

Whether that's you sharing what the Lord's been teaching you in your own private devotion.

Fight.

Find ways to serve the church and not just be merely a consumer.

Amen, in fact that gives people something to think about when they are looking for a church to join.

If they believe they have abundance in gifts of any kind that

are gifts needed by a Congregation they might want to consider should I join a

large church just because I might receive a lot more accolades for what I am doing.

Or Should I receive what.

Should I join a congregation that needs me and my gifts more?

So that's something for them to consider.

And Kyle white if you want to conclude with any final words.

And I really appreciated what you said when Michael I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I I would encourage any brothers and sisters in Christ that are listening to.

To.

Really.

Take seriously.

Cultivating before any other relationship your relationship with God in Christ and and.

And press in to your relationship with them so that everything in your life flows out of

that of that sense of being in Christ.

Everything about you.

And and then when you do go to the gathering of the Saints.

Go to the gathering with the mindset that you are gathering with others who are also in Christ.

But that ought to stir you that ought to affect you so that you're not when you when you see that other person.

You're not simply seeing a face and you're not seeing the problems.

You're not seeing the things you disagree with.

You're seeing a brother or sister in Christ.

You you're you're in communion together in this union.

You have with Christ.

And that really ought to impact all of us.

In our local churches, especially.

But even in our you know, as I'm looking at you guys engaging with you guys brothers in Christ.

We are that before we are anything else.

And so I guess that's what I would leave with.

Amen.

Well, I want to make sure our listeners have both of your websites.

First of all, Michael McCarthy who is pastor of Christ Fellowship in

Patchogue Long Island, New York.

That website is Christ Fellowship Li for Long Island dot -com Christ

Fellowship li dot -com and the website for

Community Baptist Church there in Texas in

Elmendorf, Texas.

That website is CBC web net.

CBC web net and for one final time Pastor McCarthy let our listeners know

all the details they need about the Fellowship Conference, New York.

So once again, the Fellowship Conference is February 23rd to 25th.

It is going to be hosted at Grace Reform Baptist Church in Merritt.

Go online register go on Google type in I'll be honest Fellowship Conference, New

York.

It'll be the first link that pops up.

Go on to the register page.

There are different registration fees for those that are for those that are Singles sing.

Single individuals show up if it's a single admission $40 couples $60 and a

family with children over five years old.

That's $80.

Food is included.

Especially the day that we will be having a lunch together and that is going to be on that

Friday afternoon.

All food will be included.

We want to encourage everybody to come and meet other believers establish friendships with others that you haven't known and

To enjoy Christ together.

Amen, and I want to let our listeners know the good news since we've been mentioning Mac Tomlinson One of the speakers at this

conference.

He is going to be my guest Monday and Tuesday.

Of.

Next week and he is going to be discussing The temptation of Christ in the

wilderness both days.

He believes he has such an abundance of information on that issue that our listeners

Should know and hear.

So he is going to be doing a two -part Discussion on that very important subject.

I want to thank everybody who listened today.

Especially those that took the time to write.

I want to thank both of my guests today Pastor Kyle white and pastor Michael McCarthy for taking time out of their

busy schedules to be my guest.

I hope you all have a blessed and safe and joyful and Christ honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior.

Then you are a sinner.