April 3, 2018 Show with Kurt M. Smith on “Jonathan Edwards & His Defense for the Great Awakening”

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Jonathan Edwards, the Great Awakening, and the Need to Defend It

I'm delighted to have back on the program Kurt M. Smith who is an author and the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama and today we are going to be discussing Jonathan Edwards and his defense for the Great Awakening and many of you may be scratching your head wondering why the Great Awakening needed to be defended but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Kurt M. Smith.

Well thank you, Chris. It is great to be back. And for the sake of our listeners who have not heard you on the program before, why don't you give a brief description of Providence Reformed.

Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. Absolutely. Providence Reformed Baptist Church is actually a new church constituted back in August of 2016 but we are a confessional Baptist church affiliated with the association and where we're located, we're located in 40 minutes northeast of Birmingham.

A Reformed Baptist church that is in a very rural community. 17 minutes away. Regional cities and suburbs. Great. And I was actually surprised speaking.

To a mutual friend of ours, Mike Gaydosh, who used to live right near Birmingham. I was surprised to hear that Birmingham is a relatively new city. Historically. Yeah. I mean, I don't mean it started a few months ago, but I mean historically it's not a really old.

City as far as the longevity of the United States is concerned. Yeah, that's true. Birmingham was started in the 1807. We need to go back an area that is called the 19th century.

Well, if anybody wants more information about Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain in Alabama, you can go to prbc1689 .org. And you never know, you may eventually wind up having somebody visit you.

I was very pleasantly surprised not long ago, just a few weeks ago, when I mentioned in passing that the brother of a family in Grace Reformed, I'm sorry, Grace Baptist Church, where I am a member here in Carlisle, which is a Reformed Baptist church, but it's just called Grace Baptist Church.

A member of the family in this congregation just planted a church in Perth, Australia, Emmanuel Reformed Baptist Church. And I just happened to mention that in passing. And a listener in Perth, Australia, visited and is convinced that that is now his church home.

This just happened a few weeks ago. Oh wow, that's great. Yeah, so you never know. It might not have happened yet, but you never know who may be walking through the doors of the Pine Mountain Reformed Baptist Church, or the Providence Reformed Baptist Church, I'm sorry, in Pine Mountain, Alabama.

Well, this is an interesting subject that we have today. Jonathan Edwards and his defense for the Great Awakening. I'm assuming that most of our listeners know who Jonathan Edwards was, but I am very often surprised about how many new Christians are listening to the show, and in addition to that, how many non-Christians listen from time to time.

So give us a very brief overview of who Jonathan Edwards was.

Well, Jonathan Edwards, he lived from 3 to 1758. He has been given the praise of all North American thinkers and philosophers. He devoted his life from the time of Noah to glorify God, and the application by God's providence for 23 years in Northampton, Massachusetts.

That was from 1729 to 1730. He sought to recover and preserve obedience to the whole counsel of God in a society which had largely drifted away from the Spanish. He was an evangelist and a missionary in Massachusetts that was supported in Evangelical Calvinism over against what was, in his day, an encroaching Pelagian and Arminian way of thinking in New England.

Edwards' greatest spiritual awakening was in the 19th century. In England, Jonathan Edwards aided their exit from Hyper-Calvinism by his treatise on the human will in relation to the slough of Arminianism.

So, yeah, his greatest spiritual awakening, but yet it would be—. Now, this may be too complicated a question to fit within our two-hour.

Time length right now, especially since we have another theme, but there are Reformed Christians who I would not consider Hyper-Calvinists, who do have a problem with Jonathan Edwards' understanding of the human will that you just mentioned.

Is there any way that you could summarize what that might be, why there is a conflict even amongst Reformed Christians who are not Hyper-Calvinists, at least the way I think Hyper-Calvinists would be predominantly defined?

Yeah. Edward's treatise on the freedom of the will, you have to really—. It does—. He does tend to—. I have not heard—. Okay, I'll tell you off the air, then. But it may have—. Well, I'll tell you this.

The person that he influenced the most, as far as the back— that his writing on the freedom of the will influenced the most, and what Andrew— in Edward's treatise was basically an echo of what Luther had— even in his sinful, unregenerate state— was free—.

By his nature. By his nature, right. And so, you know, but he— is that the freedom he has, according to his nature to choose, and having the moral ability—.

Now, would this be called compatible free will? Compatibilism?

It could be. I would have to— I'd have to look that up, but—.

And, well, the thing that I said before, that a lot of people who are evangelical may be scratching their heads, wondering why Jonathan Edwards had to defend the Great Awakening, because they see— you know, they don't see any problems in the Great Awakening at all.

Can you tell us about— first of all, define what the Great Awakening was? And I have been confronted with opposition to much that occurred in the Great Awakening by Reformed Christians, but of course not all.

We're talking about one of the greatest Reformed Christians that ever lived that was defending it, as you say, in this thesis. Right. But there are people that do chime in with some harsh criticism, but if you could tell us about the Great Awakening.

What the Great Awakening Was and Why It Mattered

Sure. The Great Awakening in 1842 probably had its most indelible impact in New England, and even down into the Southern Continent—. Wow. —as a separatist. He and his brother— —century here in America.

And speaking of that, you know, using terms like revival and spiritual awakening today, of course, for many evangelicals today, those kind of terms only conjure up organized meetings that ever— in such a promotion like that leads any Christian to believe that this is a— —century, they didn't have that mind to them.

You're talking about like when a fundamentalist church or a Pentecostal church says, we're having a revival meeting this weekend, or something like that.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In the 18th century, the evangelical ministers of the 18th century, that was nowhere on their radar. No one organized or invented the Great Awakening. No one advertised in the 18th century.

Instead, what happened in the mid -18th century under the name of the Great Awakening was a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit. It was, in the words of their own words, manifest effusions. Remarkable about that is that manifest effusion of the—.

—were not in the best spirit would even, you know, to occur. That time period, he lamented that in these towns, he said, religion was in a very—. —literally, many of our people, careless, carnal—. Another minister, he said, people through the land were—.

—care of the great concerns of eternity in religion. And indeed, the wise, for the most part, were in a great degree asleep with the foolish. —had to see, he said, with what a careless behavior—. —how people were given to unsuitable, worldly discourse on the Lord's holy day.

And he concluded this testimony by saying that religion, at that time in America, laid, as it were, a dying and ready to expire its last breath. Now, the men who lived in that period—. —so while they were longing, and they were yearning, and they were praying for the Lord, was due to the church marquee.

And one minister said, a great awakening—. —I mean, that's the very term he used—. —a great awakening broke upon the slumbering churches, like a thunderbolt rushing out of a clear sky.

Amen.

—you know, writing of the supernatural wonder in New England, a minister in Boston named William Cooper, he said, the apostolical times seem to have returned upon us. Such a displaying spirit in the assemblies of his people, in such testimonies has he given to the word of the gospel.

And this return to the apostolical times that Pastor Cooper articulated was the extraordinary pouring out of the— —said more plentiful measures of the Holy Spirit have been seen by his internal saving operations accompanying the outward ministry to produce numerous conversions to Christ and give spiritual life to souls that were before dead and trespass into eternal life.

Overview highlighted six different aspects which mark the outworking of this revival as what he called a season of grace, which neither we nor our Father—. Those highlights, if I can just work through them—.

—Oh yeah, definitely.

—Edwards.

—Definitely.

—He says, first, there were the preachers to whom God has given such a large measure of his Spirit that we are ready sometimes to apply to them the character given of Barnabas, full of the Holy Ghost and of faith.

And what exactly were these preachers preaching? Cooper gets very specific here. He says, the doctrines of the Reformation, man's guilt, corruption, and impotence, supernatural regeneration by the Spirit of God, and free justification by faith in the righteousness of Christ in the marks of the new birth.

The preachers during this period, like Cooper and Edwards and Whitefield and Tennant and those men, biblical doctrines that they were preaching. Secondly, he said what made the Great Awakening extraordinary.

Was its extent.

This was not something happening in one place, but in several provinces that measure many hundred miles on this continent. He says, it has entered and spread in some of the most populous towns, the chief places of concourse and business.

Third, the Great Awakening was great due to the numbers that had been the subjects of this operation. Cooper reported that sinners had been awakened by hundreds and the inquiry has been general in some places, what must I do to be saved?

Jonathan Edwards reported the same thing. George Whitefield in his journal, because he was in America, 1940 in particular, and he reported of happening where he was preaching this general inquiry among the people, what must I do to be saved?

The work of God was remarkable by the fact that people of all sorts and ages were affected. And here Cooper gives a catalog of these various awakened sinners. He mentions the elderly, the sprightly youth, the graven, the rich, the low and the poor, slaves, the ignorant, the learned, the disorderly and the airy, drunkards, fornicators, adult, carnal, whirlings, and civil, and even the formal professor has been awakened out of his dead, taken off from his false rest and brought to build his hope only on Christ.

When believers affected, many of the children of God have been greatly quickened and refreshed, have been awakened out of the sleeping frames they were fallen into and excited to give diligence to make their calling and election sure and have had precious reviving sealing times.

Recall the uniformity of the work. Drawing from many accounts he had received in letters from all across the land, Cooper attests that it is the same work that is carried on in one place and another. His main point in this is to show that the method, and these are his words, the method of the spirit's operation of the minds of the people is the same no matter where the manifestation of his grace has been poured out.

Yet he concedes to the fact that at such an extraordinary time of the spirit's working, he says God is pleased to carry on this work of his grace in a more observable and glorious manner in a way which he would have to be taken notice of by the world.

And what Pastor Cooper was making reference to were the outward show of tears, trembling, groans, loud outcries, and even the failing of bodily strength. As many of these centers were converted to Christ.

Cooper argued on this matter that it seems reasonable to suppose that there may be some, in the work of conversion, which are not common at other times, when yet there are true conversions wrought or some circumstances attending the work may be carried to an unusual degree.

And those last words he says there, some circumstances attending the work may be carried to an unusual degree. Those are very critical, important words to understand to an unusual degree. If I may just pull back for a moment here, what we see here from a larger picture is the overall understanding of revival among the evangelical leaders of the 18th century.

While they referred to it by terms as an outpouring of the spirit or effusions of the spirit, yet they did not understand this as something miraculously different from the regular experience of the church.

That's really important. In fact, Ian Murray, in his wonderful book, Revival and Revivalism, he pointed out the difference lies in degree, not in kind.

He says,.

In an outpouring of the spirit, spiritual influence is more widespread, convictions are deeper, and feelings more intense, but all this is only a heightening of normal Christianity. True revivals are extraordinary, yet what is experienced at such times is not different, in essence, from the spiritual experience that belongs to Christians at other times.

Ian Murray says, it is the larger earnest of the same spirit who abides with all those who believe. And that is exactly the thinking and the understanding of men like William Cooper and Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield, those evangelical leaders.

The last dynamic, though, that Pastor Cooper mentioned as he mused on what God had done by this great awakening, he said it was the fruit of it. It's fruit. He writes of how the sinners who have been spiritually awakened are continuing to seek and strive to enter the narrow gate.

Moreover, those who have been converted to Christ,.

He says,.

Continue to give evidence that they have become a new creation in Christ and seem to cleave to the Lord with full purpose of heart. Furthermore, he reveals how taverns, dancing schools, and such meetings as have been called assemblies, which have always proved unfriendly to serious godliness, are much less frequented.

And finally, as to the culture left by this abusion of the spirit on a wider scale, Cooper said this, religion in conversation at friends' houses than ever I knew it, most enrelished. Private religious meetings are greatly multiplied.

The public assemblies, especially lectures, are much better attended, and our auditors were never so attentive and serious. There is indeed an extraordinary appetite after the sincere milk of the word, and an evening in God's courts is now esteemed better than many elsewhere.

There is also great resort to ministers in private. He says our hands continue full of work, and many times we have more than we can discourse with distinctly and...

Wow.

That was the great awakening.

Yeah, so that would give reason for pause for Christians out there listening who throw that word revival around very loosely, because very often what they're describing has very little to do with what you just described.

Oh yeah, no, Dave, you and I talked about this in a previous interview. You know, what most evangelicals think, they think of it in terms, Charles, Gratis, Lee, you know, Vinnie.

Right.

...needed in doing was to take the supernatural out of revivals more than using the right methods.

Right.

And, you know, revivals could be the continuous norm in church life as opposed to an extraordinary work of God at his choosing and on his terms, and thus generations of American evangelicals have followed Vinnie's pragmatic techniques for having revival, where God is called upon to bless their efforts, but he is not relied upon as the true author and giver of genuine revival.

And I'm sure you would agree with me that an excellent book that compares and contrasts true revival with revivalism is that book of that title, Revival and Revivalism by Ian Murray. And where he compares and contrasts Finney with Asahel Nettleton, I believe is the primary figure that he addresses in regard to true revival when compared to Finney and false revival.

Yes.

And you're starting to fade away, brother. You got to put your mouth...

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I said that is a book, the book by Ian Murray you mentioned, Revival and Revivalism, to certain chapters, the three chapters that he devotes. Ian Murray does a... What exactly he did in what Ian Murray describes?

And what I always find quite amazing is that fundamentalists who would be very, very vehemently opposed to Roman Catholicism, and rightfully so, would adopt someone who beats Roman Catholicism in regard to Pelagianism.

He makes Roman Catholics look like Calvinists in comparison. But we have to go to our first break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Kurt M. Smith regarding Jonathan Edwards' The Great Awakening and Jonathan Edwards' defense of The Great Awakening, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with more of Kurt Smith and our discussion on Jonathan Edwards right after these messages from our sponsors. Tired of box store Christianity?

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That's solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com. We are now back with our guest today, Kurt M. Smith, author and pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. We are discussing Jonathan Edwards and his defense for the Great Awakening.

Edwards' Scriptural Tests for True Revival

Well, after what you have described before the break, Pastor Kurt, it seems strange that Christians would in any way be opposed to what occurred at the Great Awakening. It seems like there was a lot of evidence for biblical regeneration occurring.

So tell us about this. Why is Jonathan Edwards defending it?

Jonathan Edwards was defending the Great Awakening, the manifestations, particularly deeply, but there were other things too, that these ministers saw. And with that, they just wrote off what was actually being written.

And so he took pen in hand, small defense, it was only three chapters long, but it was a small book that he entitled The Distinguishing Marks, published in the fall of 1741. So it was published. And at the end of his forward on reading Edwards' defense was that, you know, basically you need to really pay attention to the Great Awakening by looking to the word using scripture as the guide.

Jonathan Edwards, he firmly believed it was supported that, you know, and Edwards, he deals with those things.

He says, my desire,.

We may safely proceed in judging of any operation we find in ourselves or see in others. And here I would observe that we are to take standing rule which God has given to his church in order to guide them in things relating to the great concern.

It is an infallible stated aim, his stated design for writing this book. And at the very, at the very beginning of the book, he says that in the apostolic pouring of the spirit of very operations and convincing, converting, enlightening, but as the influences of the devil was abundant, ordinary influences of the spirit of God as is manifest by innumerable passages of the apostles writings.

This made it very necessary that the church of Christ should be furnished with some certain rules, distinguishing and clear marks by which she might proceed safely in judging of the truth.

I think what you just read was very important because as you know, in the 20th century and even 21st century that we're now in, there are charismatics and Pentecostals who put a seal of approval on some of the most bizarre manifestations that make what, what you described as far as the unusual manifestations that Jonathan, Jonathan Edwards witnessed.

Some of these modern day manifestations make those in comparison seem like the most solemn of Calvinistic stoic worship services. And they will say, you see what, what happened in the day of the great awakening with Jonathan Edwards and so on.

You reform people should be reading your own heroes because all these bizarre manifestations were occurring. So therefore you should not bat an eye or denounce what we are experiencing at our revival here in Pensacola, Florida, or in Toronto or wherever else where you have women lying on the, on the floor, mimicking the, the agony of giving birth and all kinds of really strange and weird things.

Some of them have been bordering on appearing sexual and just strange so that they, they use these, they, they, they put the seal of approval on these things because of what happened at the great awakening.

So what you just read was very important to include in the discussion.

Yeah,.

Very much so because many, many scholars in the story, what Jonathan Edwards, what he became and what he remains to this, he is the most trusted theologian and therefore he has been called the, and the reason he can be so trusted in this area is because of the very thing he said.

We will use the word of God as our guide. We will look to the scriptures. It will be the scriptures that will judge for us if what we're seeing and hearing is indeed a work of the spirit of God. And that of course is where Pentecostals historically charismatics, you know, they,.

They do,.

They have not, they have not historically nor even in, they have not used the word of God their guide. I can say this even as one time being an insider because I used to belong.

Oh, really? I don't remember hearing that.

Yeah, right.

Many, many...

I'm sorry, the show's over now. I'm only kidding.

Well, you know, I just, I mean, I know, I know exactly, I know exactly the thing. And so, you know, it's, it's not what we're seeing or what we're hearing instead. It's just the experience.

And just...

So they...

I just want to very quickly say that because we may be accused of broad brushing, I know very biblically solid men, even pastors who are professedly charismatic or non-cessationist or continuationist who are equally, if not more so, horrified by some of these bizarre things that go under the umbrella of revival in our day.

The reason why I say some of them are even more horrified is because they are broad brushed with that kind of thing. And so we can't, we can't... Charismatics and Pentecostals are not cookie cutter duplications of each other.

Exactly, yeah.

Yeah.

Even Jonathan Edwards was believed swing in the first 16 years. Even in this very book on the distinguishing marks of the work of the Spirit of God, he actually goes out of his way while he discusses at length these unusual and strange things.

And he doesn't completely... It's the order he's been using since the end and the close of the episode. Anyway, we could be going down a completely different path here real quick. But in regard... Go ahead.

No, you could go ahead. You finish your thought.

Okay, well, anyway, I was just going to say that what Edwards does in this book, you can go to...

Or go to cvbbs .com, who sponsored this program.

Yeah, that's right. Yes, and they know me there, so how dare I tell people to go to Amazon?

Oh, dear.

Anyway, Jonathan Edwards on Revival.

That's the...

But the largest portion of the book is this little... Into three different divisions. The very first chapter, Edwards, that we cannot judge a work just because... Or extraordinary manifestations we see.

And what he says here, he says the Holy Spirit in his operations, and we know that he uses a great variety. And we cannot tell how great a variety he may use within the compass of the rules he himself has...

Ought not to... Where he has not limited himself... He ought not to live... Several examples... Extraordinary...

In fact, if you...

And for the...

Go ahead.

I was just going to say, if you could pick up where you left off, listing those, because I don't want to interrupt you in mid-sentence, like I just did. We have to go to our midway break, but you do have time to complete that sentence that I just interrupted.

Well, I'm just going to say that...

Right, and in fact, I don't know if you have, but I have encountered modern-day Reformed Christians who seem to have taken those men who were critics of Edwards and the Revival, they have taken them as their heroes today and seem to be in agreement with them.

I don't know if you have encountered them, but I have. Not a lot, but I have encountered them from time to time. So this is not absent from our modern day, this opposition to the...

Oh, no.

So we're going to be going to a break right now. This is a longer break than normal because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires a 12-minute break between our two major segments.

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