Official Debate CHALLENGE for @AaronGallagherTV @GBNTV

Opening the Show and Introducing the Debate Challenge

You know what I'm saying, Cobb? Well, hello everybody to the Apologetic Dog. If you have been a frequent guest and viewer of the Apologetic Dog, please just like and subscribe and share. I appreciate all the support, especially the prayers of those people that have been subscribed for a long time and have a lot of exciting announcements and things that I'd like to talk about today.

So I have to bring in my co-host, the Fishbone. What about it? What about it? What about it? What about it? Trey, how are you? Carl's here. Carl, Carl Henry's here. Carl's in the house. Hey, Carl is a fan deep down, I think, of the Apologetic Dog and the Fishbone.

Carl's in the house. You know what I'm saying? Trey, a lot of people may not know much about you and how we became friends, especially your appearance on Cultish. Would you care to kind of inform people who you are and where they can find some of your content?

Yeah. I met Jeremiah on Facebook land. He was promoting a debate he was having with a, what was that dude's name? What was it? Brock Kendall? Brock Kendall. I believe. And I said, hey, dude, you're debating a church of Christ or so I'd like to help out with that.

And so I called you up or I messaged you and you called me back and we've been talking ever since. And then I got on Cultish. I was on Cultish before you did the Brock Kendall thing, right? Right. And then, yeah, then we got you on the second one on the review of it all.

Appreciate that. We went to Reform Con. You introduced me to the Derbs and Luke the Bear Pearson and hashtag your mom and him. Your mom and him.

So it was good and we've been talking pretty much every week since.

Yep, you have also a very unique background. You grew up in the church of Christ. And so if people are new to the Apologetic Dog, one of the main emphases that you and I,.

Go ahead, say that bit. My first 18 years was in the good old Southern Baptist. And then my next 18 years was in the 17, 18 years in the church of Christ, yeah. You may proceed now. 18 years is a long time, Troy.

But you know what? You don't know what they believe. No, I don't know. I have no idea. That's what I'm always accused of. Yes, so as we made contact over the past two years, we've been friends now for a while.

Something that you and I have been able to have a platform is evangelizing the church of Christ. And the reason why it's worth evangelizing is because I believe, we talk about this all the time, but they hold to a false gospel.

Baptism, Justification, and the False Gospel of the Church of Christ

And Leanne Ferguson wrote an excellent book about her journey out of the church of Christ. Church of Christ, or Christ Rescued Me from the church of Christ. She has a chapter called The Water Gospel, I believe.

And so the reason why we make a big deal about this is baptism is wonderful. We can disagree on the mode and a lot of things, especially with our Presbyterian brothers and if infants are supposed to be baptized.

But when you make that the mechanism of our justification, our right standing before God, then you've committed the Glacian One heresy. You've compromised the gospel altogether because you've added to faith your working participation.

So do you wanna add anything to that? No, 100 right.

It's the Glacian heresy. And when you add anything to faith, faith plus something equals salvation. Faith plus anything equals no thing, nothing. And so that's the sad thing. So that's where we fight our battle.

And we get a lot of good from it. I had a great conversation with a lady from New Jersey who was in the church of Christ for years and just talked about the struggle she had and how things that she saw and the questions she had that when she asked them, she got in trouble, right?

Just the same old things. Don't question the authority. But a great conversation. We have them every week, I know you do too. And it's a blessing to get to play a part in that and get to walk people through scripture and explain these things to them.

Well, so you and I both have been able to debate the church of Christ and really try to speak to these issues. My last debate was with your great uncle, Mike Hysall. We had a big old time. Yeah, you remember.

You know your great uncle. Oh, Hysall. Have you talked to your brother lately, Travis Thomas? No, he blocked me.

Did he block you? Come on, T .T. That's okay, I know he keeps tabs on the apologetic dog because he interviewed Derek Healy on his channel about his journey out of the church of Christ. And obviously he had to listen to our interview.

Smart young man. Oh, yeah. Good, except what did he say? What was the funny thing he said? Okay, I'll go ahead and say it. So he was referencing the Greek lexicon. Oh, yeah, yeah. B-dag, right? He said B-bag.

Yeah, yeah, but he immediately caught himself so they had a good little laugh. And he called me right after. He goes, Jeremiah, I said D-bag. I was like, it's okay. We all know what you mean.

So the reason why I was bringing that up a little bit. Has Travis played that part like 100 times now? I'm sure, I'm sure.

I'm sure it made the highlight reel. But I was gonna say is with my debate with Mike Hysall, something I really wanted to stress was why does believing baptism justifies before God commit the Galatians 1 heresy?

Well, baptism is meant to signify a relationship with God. It's meant to signify the forgiveness of sins. And so when you confuse the representation with the reality, you've distorted the gospel altogether.

In my debate, I held up a picture of my beautiful wife and baby boy and I just said, if I were to ask people, is this my family? Our instinct is to say yes, because we know it's a picture of the reality.

But with the Church of Christ, as you know, the baptism isn't a picture. It isn't a visible declaration of the gospel and an act or work of faith. But it's literally the mechanism that washes away past sin and they'll appeal to Acts 238, Acts 22, 16 and all these proof texts to say, no, this is the moment when your sins are washed away.

And we've said, you've absolutely confused the map for the place or the representation for the reality. And you've blended faith and works and you've blended justification and sanctification.

Right, 100%. Yeah, I mean, there's really nothing more to say on that. I mean, it's just that it's crazy, especially when we go to Acts 22, 16, that's when Paul's sins were washed away. I think everybody can read that and see that this is metaphorically, this is not true.

I mean, it's not like Paul's sins were literally floating down the river, you know? But I mean, this is what they held onto. And it's the work, right? So Roman, I love how O. Miss Pergy says that Roman Catholics, you know, the blood is in, you know, it's in liquid, it's in the wine, right?

And then with the Church of Christ, the blood is in the water. So it's both, both of them have these liquids that you're saved by liquid, you know, and not by the blood of Christ, where, I mean, it's as clear as a bell that you receive the blood of Christ by faith in Romans chapter three.

Nowhere does the Bible say anything about entering baptism and that's where you receive the blood of Christ in the watery grave of baptism, that's just not in the Bible. For people who speak where the Bible speaks and they're silent where it's silent, they're really speaking a lot where it's silent, and they're, yeah.

So that's where we contend.

The Turtle Book and Exposing Contradictions in Church of Christ Teaching

Now speak to this a little bit because old Fergie Ferg out there said, turtle, turtle. Now we're, you know, we're having a little bit of fun with old TT, Travis Thomas, but that does remind me a little bit of the turtle book.

You wanna tell people what they can look forward to and some episodes to come?

Let me get the turtle book. You got the old turtle book? I got it somewhere by my desk here. Yeah, it's a,.

Hopefully stand by. I've been told to stand by, so I'm gonna get to talk a little bit about, you know, some upcoming announcements and things like that. Many of y 'all have tuned in and know that there is a impending debate on the horizon that Clay Fisher and I will get into.

Are you back already? I didn't even get to do a shameless play. Okay, I was getting people ready for a debate now. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about this turtle book.

Well, I was given this book at Christmas and it was given to him on like a Saturday, I think. And by Monday I read it twice. I've got a few notes in it, if you can tell, but I mean, it's just, it's a local preacher here who wrote it.

I reached out to a couple of people at his church, reached out to him and just asked if I could ask questions. I was like, I don't wanna debate. I don't wanna argue. I just simply want to ask questions.

I said, I'd ask, I would do it in his church with his elders, as long as I could just bring one person with me, just to, as a witness that I didn't scream, holler, shout or anything like that. So I just asked if I could come and ask questions and no, nope.

And so he told me to text him a few questions and he'd get back with me, but he hasn't. That was back in January. So since he's not gonna get with me and I can't ask the questions, I just wanna go through this book and show the inconsistencies and the blatant contradictions of it.

When people say that they don't believe in works are not necessary for salvation, that's what they believe. No, the works are not necessary for salvation. You have to say that, but in his book, he actually says works are necessary for salvation.

And so literally says that. So I appreciate the honesty, but there's so many contradictions in it. I just wanna go through it. This is from a very, it's a Church of Christ preacher and this is what they believe on justification on how to be saved.

And so I just wanna go through it. Typically, they don't write things like this because of that, because it's gonna contradict everywhere. And I think that when people in the Church of Christ read it, they're not thinking through what they're reading.

And so it doesn't really, they're not seeing it. But I think if you go through it slowly and just take your time and point out the things, it's so obvious. I mean, it's just contradicting like from one sentence to the next.

It's just a contradiction. So we'll go through it and hopefully people will see it and get and learn from it. We talked to a lawyer, right? Of fair use, how much we can show of the book. We're not gonna go through.

I would like to go through it word for word, but you can't do that. But because of fair use, we can critique the book and we will. And so hopefully people will learn from it and get a lot from it. So who do you think the debate challenge is for?

A .K. Richardson, Aaron Gallagher, Mike Hysaw, T .T. OTT? What's the vote? I'm gonna say A .K. Richardson. This is gonna blow your mind, Trey. What you got? It's gonna blow your mind.

Before we continue onward, wanna thank everybody that's tuned in to the Apologetic Dog. If you've ever benefited from this content, just wanna encourage you to please like, subscribe, smash that notification bell.

As I've heard Trey Fisher mention a time or two. And continue to please share this content. I've noticed studying the analytics that if you share the content along with liking it, then it really kind of spreads the ministry out and helps more viewership and a wider audience as we contend for the gospel of grace.

Calvinism, Sovereignty, and the Upcoming Sanctification Conference

Okay, so as we continue on, Trey, do you remember this conference back in February?

Yes, I do remember. Why Calvinism? Apologetic Dog, why Calvinism?

So this was the theme of the conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee. You're a Calvinist. That is true. John Calvin. Trey, I've heard that so many times, man. It's like, I wanna tell people that say that, I'm a Baptist.

Literally, John Calvin would have not had kind things to say about me. No. But when we do talk about Calvinism, Sagan.

No, go ahead. I don't wanna go off on a tangent on covenants. No, no, no.

We got time, we got time. But when we do talk about Calvinism, we're talking about essentially the doctrines of grace, the tulip acrostic. And this conference is wonderful. Archive people can go to Open Air Theology, Jeffrey Rice's YouTube channel.

And I believe they're building a website that's gonna be really nice. And we had a ton of speakers. And Trey, did you know that I was the replacement for Tom Buck? Like, what in the world? Come on. Big timer, dude.

Well, it was an honor. I got to talk about, essentially, God's sovereignty in the believer's suffering. And so that was just incredible preparation and time to be able to encourage people that your suffering is bestowed as a gift from above, meant to sanctify you for your good and for God's glory.

But I also had a chance to speak at the pre-conference against, or, and I was able to warn people about the dangers of hyper-preterism. Have you ever heard of the term unicorn before?

We, I labeled them unicorns. Oh yeah, that was you. I still, I can't believe there's really people out there. Wasn't Orange Okie a unicorn?

And a church of Christ. I don't know if Orange Okie is out in the chat.

The big dog, remember that me and Dr. Frost were going to debate the church of Christ preacher, Don Preston and Michael Sultan at Arkansas State. And then they backed out because I talked to them and they said that they felt like I was a loose cannon.

And I said, I am a cannon, but I'm not loose. I am a cannon, but I'm not loose. Cause I was like, listen, here's what y 'all are going to do. Y 'all are going to try to pin me a postmeal against Dr. Frost as an ommeal.

But the minute you do that, I'm going to expose both of you for one being a church of Christer and one being a Baptist. And y 'all can't even decide on how to even get on the bus, much less what the end times is going to be like.

And they're like, oh, we're done.

We're not going to do that with you. Something I heard recently was Don Preston was kicked out of the COC world. So I don't know where he attends and why not. He got kicked out and he's speaking. You don't get kicked out of the COC.

He might've got kicked out of his congregation,.

But there's not. Jeremiah, let me tell you about the church of Christ. They're not a global nation, okay? Oh! They're all autonomous churches. They just all happen to believe the exact same thing. But yeah, so he couldn't get kicked out of the church of Christ.

Like he was kicked out of the Mormon church.

So, hey. Two points for me. I'll give a quick shout out to Wesley Watkins. Wesley's my boy. He's a member at 12 Five Church. And I want to just tell people, I also serve as a pastor and elder. 12 Five Church in Northeast Arkansas.

So if you're anywhere in the area, please come check us out. We'd love to show you around, for you to check out our time of fellowship. Trey, I've told you about this. We do something very unique at 12 Five.

We're very liturgical. And after the preaching of the word, we have a time of Koinonia, the love feast, where we always have a meal together. And usually we have over 100 people stay around for that. And we are the only Reformed Baptist church in Jonesboro.

And so, we're the only one. Now we have our Presbyterian brothers. We love that. But we want to go against the grain and let everybody know that even though we may differ on some doctrine with evangelical churches if we're preaching the right gospel, then we can find some level of fellowship.

And so a lot of times before the service, we pray for a local evangelical church. But we also pray for a church in Louisiana. Heck yeah, you do. I don't know if you've ever heard of the The Parish of the Redeemer.

Parish of the Redeemer. So y 'all are getting some prayers from Jonesboro, Arkansas land.

I appreciate that, man. That's great. We'll start praying for 12 Five up in the house. Thank you, thank you. So yeah, if you're ever in North Louisiana and you're looking for a Reformed Baptist church that's post-millennial because we worship a conquering king, huh?

A conquering king who gets his inheritance.

The coffee went down the wrong tube there. Not a loser.

So if you're looking for that in North Louisiana, you can come to Potter. Parish of the Redeemer. Parish means church. Redeemer is Christ. So hey, even for the Church of Christers,.

We're the parish of the Redeemer. You gotta love it. Why not Church of Christ Romans 16, 16? Oh man, stop it.

So what about this white Calvinism? How did that conference go?

Is there another one coming up? When Church of Christ bring up Romans 16, 16, I just say, well, Romans 12, verse five comes before Romans 16, 16, and we're 12. Five church.

Yeah. Yeah, so this conference And Romans 5, 1 comes before Romans 6, 1. Oh, got him again.

So yeah, this conference, I'll encourage people to go check it out. This was the conference train where Dr. James White debated Jason Breda on the atonement. And it was a showdown. And when I say a showdown, it was a show, all right.

It was a beat down. Was it a beat down? It was a beat down. It wasn't a showdown. Well, so this next year, February coming up, we're having another conference. And so it's kind of piggybacking off of, you know, talking about the sovereignty of God, why Calvinism, but Calvinism just doesn't talk about the moment when someone is regenerated and justified before God.

This Calvinism also talks about how God is with us, even in low to the end of the age, by sanctification, by sending us the Holy Spirit, setting us apart from the world and conforming us more into the image of Christ.

And so February 2025, and like I said, Jeffrey Rice at Open Air Theology, please hit him up on Facebook and please get your tickets because tickets are gonna sell out. And last year we had a huge crowd, especially with a debate with Dr. White and Jason Breda.

It was the last event of the whole conference. And so it was incredible. And so this year it's going to be on sanctification. We may have to get the fishbone to come check it out. Amen. Send me the invite, baby.

Something that is important when we are talking about a believer of sanctification is there is a war going on between the spirit and the flesh. So we have a lot of speakers lined up. We're gonna have some new speakers, this go around.

And so I was, I got to speak two times at last year's conference. I even got to talk with Dr. White right before he went on the debate platform in the cross-examination. I got to rev the engine train.

I was like, Dr. White, don't hold back. He's like, he said, it's not gonna be pretty. And I said, hey, this gentleman over here signed up for it. So I just want to, once again, encourage people to go check out last year's debate with Dr. White.

Butt train. That leads me to why I have you on today. So this year we're gonna have a different debater than Dr. White. AK Richardson. How's he doing in the poll? Oh man, he's got a high percentage there.

I'll tell everybody that's tuning in and listening a little bit about the poll that's going on. Here's the poll, I don't see it. But I want to encourage everyone to keep Dr. James White in prayer. He's had a rough past couple of weeks.

He's been having surgery and he's already done like I think seven debates in its May this year. And so also if you're new to the Apologetic Dog, I have a live stream that was a handful of weeks ago where I actually had Dr. White on and we did a debate tour review where we kind of reviewed highlight reel of the five debates that he pulled off.

Oh my goodness, Trane, like one month or a month and a half. Yeah, he's busy. He's a busy man and he's, like I said, been going through some medical things so keep him in prayer. And so he's really not going to be planning a whole lot in advance for 2025.

He just wants to see what doors God opens when it gets closer to time. And so Jeffrey Rice said, Jeremiah, we need a debater for the conference. And I was like, oh, you want the Apologetic Dog is what you're getting at.

And he said, exactly. He said, exactly. He said, so Jeremiah, I have something for you to do for me. He says, number one, I want you to get a debate proposition, which we'll talk about here in a little bit, but it needs to relate to sanctification.

And then I need for you to find a debater that will engage you in the dojo in Tullahoma, Tennessee at the next conference. Tullahoma. I can do it. And he had one more request, Trey. He said, I really would like for it to be a member of the Church of Christ.

And I said, are you serious? I said, I have a long line of them, so I'll get on it quickly. And so if people are tuning in, what maybe they can't see in the live chat is we took a poll. And so let me ask you this, Trey.

Who do you think this debate challenge is for? Do you think it's AK Richardson? Do you think it's Aaron Gallagher, Mike Hysall, AKA your great uncle, or Travis Thomas, dot, dot, dot, old TT?

I would love it to be a TT. And well, because I know Aaron Gallagher is not gonna do it. You've done AK Richardson. You've done Michael Hysall. You've done, I don't know if you debated TT. So you hadn't like debated TT, but I mean, but you called him to a show, but you hadn't debated him, you know what I'm saying?

And so I think it'd be fun if you did. Because he would like get so mad. He'd like throw chairs and stuff and get all mad. But if you're thinking, listen to me, listen to me, Church of Christ world. If you think Aaron Gallagher is gonna, look, this dude is different for me.

This dude, the dog, Jeremiah, will sit in a dungeon for three months, watch every video somebody has done and pick it apart and study and get ready for debate. Not me, that's not my thing. I just sit down and say, let's go.

The dog would do that. If anybody in here thinks that Aaron Gallagher will debate Jeremiah, I don't think y 'all know Aaron Gallagher. Like, I know Aaron Gallagher, he's not gonna do it. Like, you might as well find somebody else, bro.

He's scared.

Well, Wesley Watkins chimes in and says, I hope it's Gallagher. So, okay, we got some people. Wesley Watkins from 12 Five Church in Jonesboro. And so I just wanna thank everybody for tuning in. I see Brian Simmons in the side chat.

Thank you for joining in. The Lehman Seminary, thank you so much for tuning in. Got ol' Fergie Ferg out there.

The unapologetic cat thinks the debate challenge is for T Fish. Oh, yeah. Let me see here.

Come on, cat mama. Paul Mays. Let me show people. Henry said Paul Mays. Oh, that would have been a good choice. You know what, Paul Mays would bury me in a kind of debate, a sing-off, an a cappella off.

A nasal sing-off. Don't do it, Trey, don't do it. I'm not gonna sing it.

Stop it, don't spit your coffee out. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it'd be fun to get Aaron Gallagher to do it. I'm just telling you, homie ain't gonna do it. I mean, you could tell him this thing is in three years, from now, and he'll have something come up on his calendar.

So when is this thing? Is it like in February or something?

This will be, yeah, it's around February 20th, that weekend, whatever's closest to the 20th. He's booked. 20, 25. He's got stuff planned, man. He would've, now he would've, but he's just already booked up, he can't do it.

That's what you're gonna get. You're not gonna get it. Are you ready, Trey? I think you're gonna be surprised at this challenge. I'm with Trey.

I wish it was old T .T., because Adam knows that old Gallagher ain't gonna do it.

Just had the wifey unchained say, tell us already. Who we calling out? Puppy. He's fussy. That's my boy. All right, without further ado, to keep the wife happy, it is, in fact, the Gallagher. What? He ain't gonna do it?

Wanna congratulate everybody. We had 60 in favor of Aaron Gallagher. We did have a close second with A .K. Richardson at 27%. But you know what? Let's see. A .K. Richardson, he says, Jeremiah, he's told me, don't associate me with the Church of Christ.

He goes, I represent my own person. I said, fair. I said, but we're still gonna square off again one of these days. And I saw, unfortunately, he got 0%. What did old Carl say?

Oh, look at what Carl said. He says, Jeremiah, rumor has it that GBN offered you to come on their broadcast and you refused because you wanted to be a public dog. Is that true? What? What? They'll make up anything.

They will slander and there's no telling. They'll say whatever. I bet Carl's joking. Carl, are you serious? I'm telling you, you put nothing past him. I'm telling you.

I'll have to leave that on the screen for a minute. Yeah.

So I wanna know if Carl, Carl, do you think that Aaron Gallagher would debate Jeremiah at this thing? I say no, Carl.

What do you say, Carl? Carl, I have not received any offer from GBN, anyone asking to debate me. I've had people here and there message me on Facebook saying, hey, would you do this? And I told them, hey, I'm actually interested in that.

And I have basically Donnie with the Debate Dojo on YouTube. His channel's called Staying For Truth. He's always ready for me to schedule debates, online debate. And then obviously Marlon Wilson at The Gospel Truth.

I do wanna tell people that doing in-person debates takes a lot of time, energy, and potential money to advertise and promote. And so when I debated Mike Heisel at 12 Five Church, we didn't invest a ton of money in doing that, but we were able to actually do it live and in person and he traveled down from Texas.

We had a great time, Trey. I think you would thoroughly enjoy meeting Mike and his son in person. Very kind, respectful individuals, but it got a little fiery during the crosshacks.

I would like to meet him and ask him who are the people he talked to. People from here, they always, seems like everybody around the country gets to talk to the people around my hometown, the Church of Christ was around my hometown.

But here's Carl Henry, I asked him, I said, do you think Aaron Gallagher would debate you in this thing? And Carl's answer was, I don't know Aaron Gallagher personally. That wasn't the question, Carl.

That'd be like somebody asking me, do you think Michael Jordan would beat LeBron James in basketball? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know him personally. Like, don't matter. Carl, the question is, do you think, do you think, not do you know him, but do you think Aaron Gallagher would debate the dog in February on sanctification?

I say, no way. What do you say, Carl? Try it, come on. Where's our other Church of Christers in here? Yeah, you know they're watching from afar. From afar. Adam Carl Michael said, anyone who does an eight and a half hour debate review would be dumb not to take this.

Adam Carmichael in the building. Where did he say that?

Where's old Adam? I love Adam Carmichael. Did you know he's a deacon at 12 Five Church? Whoop whoop, he better be a deacon. He's also the administrator of setting up chairs, tear down and set up, and he does a phenomenal job.

Yep, he's deacon of Park Lauderdale. That is a task. Adam has his hands a little bit in everything. I was gonna put that post of Adam before we move on to our next. Okay, we had Carl interact with us a little bit more.

Adam Carmichael.

Carl Henry. He doesn't know, but there are qualified debaters who would. So I'm confused.

Were there rumors? Are there legitimately rumors saying that I refuse to go to GBN place and debate? Isn't that the question?

Well, you're asking Carl, right? I know you're not asking me. Carl said that GBN offered you to come to GBN. And was it a debate? Is that what he said? Carl, what are you talking about, man? I do not know what he's talking about.

Let's just get Carl on here and we can discuss with Carl. Here he says, Jeremiah, rumor has it that GBN offered you to come on their broadcast and you refuse because you wanted on the apologetic dog. Is that true?

And then he put in quotes, seriously. He put brackets, seriously. So he's not joking.

Nope, didn't happen. If they would have said, hey, let's set up this thing and this is the time and location, I would have. Trey, you know me. I ain't scared.

Adam Carmichael just wants everybody to know that he's Amil. And he thinks that, you know, nevermind. I love Adam. I love Adam. But you know, we're winners over here, Adam. Amen to that. Come over here.

Yeah, so anyway, what do you think, Jeremiah? You think, you should have texted or emailed or invited Aaron on this right here so we could discuss it with him.

I will say, I sent him the link to this. Hopefully he's watching. If anybody is in Church Christ or would like to see this debate happen, please encourage Gallagher that this would be a good opportunity to debate on sanctification.

In fact, let's talk about a little bit more of what's going to be expected. Are you ready for this, Trey? Yeah. Okay, so something, like I said, I want to encourage people, if they'd like to see this debate happen, just let Gallagher know that this will be a good opportunity that this is almost a year away, so there's a lot of time.

Gavin's on here. What's up, Gavin? Gavin's in the building, too.

Yeah, I mean, Gavin loves Aaron Gallagher. Maybe Gavin can push Aaron Gallagher into this. I don't know.

I did ask Gavin, though. I said, do you believe that Jews were born into a saving relationship with God like Gallagher believes? And he honestly said, he's like, I need to look into this more. He says, but I'm totally willing to disagree with Gallagher if I have to, and I said, I appreciate that.

Appreciate it. Wow. But Gavin, let Gallagher know that this is a good opportunity. We have plenty of time to plan in advance, and like I said, I'm gonna bring up some points here of what we can potentially do a debate on, whether if Gallagher really wants me to take an affirmative or negative position.

I'm all game. Like, I want to be as flexible and agreeable to certain stipulations and rules to the debate. So that kind of brings me to this. Let me see if I can pull this up. This will be a debate on sanctification, Trey, and the reason why we want to pinpoint this is because the Reformed, we understand that there is a strong relationship between justification and sanctification, but they are distinct.

They're inseparable, and we'll be able to say the moment that a person is justified, they are immediately set apart. But that justification, since it is because of a transformed heart that God accomplished, that He took out that heart of stone and that He gave them a heart of flesh, then God will continue a work in sanctification and to glory one day.

And so tell me, what's the Church of Christ view when it comes to sanctification?

Let's see, and here's the thing. I was just thinking about that. There's not a lot of talk of sanctification in the Church of Christ. Most people in the Church of Christ really don't even know what the term sanctification means.

Now, Gavin, don't, don't, just hold on. If I threw a blanket over the majority of the people in the Church of Christ, they would not know what sanctification, that theological term means. That's what I mean by that.

Not saying that not every, there's not one Church of Christ person that doesn't know the term, but most don't, and it's not talked of much. But basically, you know, there's sanctification. I mean, being set apart, that's not the Spirit.

They don't believe that's the Spirit of God in them doing it. It's them and their effort. It's their works, their efforts of being more like Christ, because Christ is more like an example of us to be more like Him and just white-knuckle it and do your best.

That would be the majority view of the Church of Christ, and maybe even Gallagher's. I have no idea. But I don't think they spend a lot of time on sanctification done by the Spirit. I think they'd have a hard time once they get into the Scriptures talking about sanctification.

Like here in 2 Thessalonians, it's through the sanctification by the Spirit. 1 Peter, the sanctification of the Spirit. So it's the Spirit of God who's also sanctifying us, you know, and setting us apart and continually working in us and conforming us into the image of Christ.

So that's just not talked a lot about in the Church of Christ. It's mainly, like I said, white-knuckle it and you do it.