Official Debate CHALLENGE for @AaronGallagherTV @GBNTV

The Apologetic Dog

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03:31

You know what I'm saying, Cobb? Well, hello everybody to the Apologetic Dog. If you have been a frequent guest and viewer of the

03:41

Apologetic Dog, please just like and subscribe and share. I appreciate all the support, especially the prayers of those people that have been subscribed for a long time and have a lot of exciting announcements and things that I'd like to talk about today.

03:55

So I have to bring in my co -host, The Fishbone. What about it?

04:01

What about it, what about it, what about it? Trey, how are you? Carl's here. Carl, Carl Henry's here.

04:06

Carl's in the house. Hey, Carl is a fan deep down, I think, of the

04:11

Apologetic Dog and The Fishbone. Carl's in the house. You know what I'm saying? Trey, a lot of people may not know much about you and how we became friends, especially your appearance on Cultish.

04:24

Would you care to kind of inform people who you are and where they can find some of your content? Yeah. I met

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Jeremiah on Facebook land. He was promoting a debate he was having with a, what was that dude's name?

04:42

What was it, Brock Kendall? Brock Kendall. And I said, hey, dude, you're debating a church of Christ, or so I'd like to help out with that.

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And so I called you up, or I messaged you, and you called me back, and we've been talking ever since.

04:57

And then I got on Cultish. I was on Cultish before you did the Brock Kendall thing, right? Right. And then, yeah.

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Then we got you on the second one, on the review of it all. Appreciate that. We went to ReformCon.

05:10

You introduced me to the Derbs and Luke the Bear Pearson, and hashtag your mom and him.

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Your mom and him. So it was good, and we've been talking pretty much every week since.

05:25

Yep. You have also a very unique background. You grew up in the church of Christ.

05:30

And so if people are new to the Apologetic Dog, one of the main emphases that you and I... Go ahead.

05:36

No. Say that better. My first 18 years was in the good old Southern Baptist. And then my next 18 years was in the 17, 18 years in the church of Christ, yeah.

05:48

You may proceed now. 18 years is a long time, Troy. But you know what?

05:53

You don't know what they believe. No, I don't know. I have no idea. That's what I'm always accused of.

06:00

Yes, so as we made contact over the past two years, we've been friends now for a while, something that you and I have been able to have a platform is evangelizing the church of Christ.

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And the reason why it's worth evangelizing is because I believe, we talk about this all the time, but they hold to a false gospel.

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And Leanne Ferguson wrote an excellent book about her journey out of the church of Christ, church of Christ, or Christ Rescued Me from the church of Christ.

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She has a chapter called The Water Gospel, I believe. And so the reason why we make a big deal about this is baptism is wonderful.

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We can disagree on the mode and a lot of things, especially with our Presbyterian brothers and if infants are supposed to be baptized.

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But when you make that the mechanism of our justification, our right standing before God, then you've committed the

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Glacian One heresy. You've compromised the gospel altogether because you've added to faith, your working participation.

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So do you wanna add anything to that? No, 100 % right. It's the Glacian heresy. And when you add anything to faith, faith plus something equals salvation, faith plus anything equals no thing, nothing.

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And so that's the sad thing. So that's where we fight our battle.

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And we get a lot of good from it. I had a great conversation with a lady from New Jersey who was in the

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Church of Christ for years and just talked about the struggle she had and how things that she saw and the questions she had that when she asked them, she got in trouble, right?

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Just the same old things. Don't question the authority. But a great conversation.

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We have them every week, I know you do too. And it's a blessing to get to play a part in that and get to walk people through scripture and explain these things to them.

07:53

Well, we, so you and I both have been able to debate the Church of Christ and really try to speak to these issues.

08:00

My last debate was with your great uncle, Mike Hysall. We had a big old time.

08:06

Yeah, you remember. You know your great uncle. Oh, I know Hysall. Have you talked to your brother lately,

08:11

Travis Thomas? No, he blocked me. Did he block you? Come on,

08:18

TT. That's okay, I know he keeps tabs on the apologetic dog because he interviewed

08:24

Derek Healy on his channel about his journey out of the Church of Christ. And obviously he had to listen to our interview.

08:33

Smart young man. Oh, yeah. Good, except what did he say? What was the funny thing he said?

08:41

Okay, I'll go ahead and say it. So he was referencing the Greek lexicon. Oh, yeah, yeah.

08:48

B -dag, right? He said B -bag. Yeah, yeah, but he immediately caught himself so they had a good little laugh.

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And he called me right after. He goes, Jeremiah, I said D -bag. I was like, it's okay, we all know what you mean. So the reason why

09:03

I was bringing that up a little bit. Has Travis played that part like 100 times now? I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm sure it made the highlight reel.

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But I was gonna say is with my debate with Mike Hysall, something I really wanted to stress was why does believing baptism justifies before God commit the

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Galatians 1 heresy? Well, baptism is meant to signify a relationship with God.

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It's meant to signify the forgiveness of sins. And so when you confuse the representation with the reality, you've distorted the gospel altogether.

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In my debate, I held up a picture of my beautiful wife and baby boy. And I just said, if I were to ask people, is this my family?

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Our instinct is to say yes, because we know it's a picture of the reality.

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But with the Church of Christ, as you know, the baptism isn't a picture. It isn't a visible declaration of the gospel and an act or work of faith.

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But it's literally the mechanism that washes away past sin. And they'll appeal to Acts 238,

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Acts 22, 16, and all these proof texts to say, no, this is the moment when your sins are washed away.

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And we've said, you've absolutely confused the map for the place or the representation for the reality.

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And you've blended faith and works, and you've blended justification and sanctification. Right. 100%.

10:27

Yeah, I mean, there's really nothing more to say on that. I mean, it's just that it's crazy, especially when we go to Acts 22, 16, that's when

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Paul's sins were washed away. I think everybody can read that and see that this is metaphorically, this is not true.

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I mean, it's not like Paul's sins were literally floating down the river, you know? But I mean, this is what they held onto.

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And it's the work, right? So Roman, I love how O. Miss Pergy says that Roman Catholics, the blood is in, it's in liquid, it's in the wine, right?

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And then with the Church of Christ, the blood is in the water. So it's both of them have these liquids that you're saved by liquid, you know?

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And not by the blood of Christ, where I mean, it's as clear as a bell that you receive the blood of Christ by faith in Romans chapter three.

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Nowhere does the Bible say anything about entering baptism, and that's where you receive the blood of Christ in the watery grave of baptism.

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That's just not in the Bible. For people who speak where the Bible speaks, and they're silent where it's silent, they're really speaking a lot where it's silent, and they're, yeah.

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So that's where we contend. A little bit, because old Fergie Ferg out there said, turtle, turtle.

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Now, we're having a little bit of fun with old TT, Travis Thomas, but that does remind me a little bit of the turtle book.

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You wanna tell people what they can look forward to and some episodes to come? Let me get the turtle book.

12:01

You got the old turtle book? I got it somewhere by my desk here. Yeah, it's a, hopefully, stand by.

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I've been told to stand by, so I'm gonna get to talk a little bit about some upcoming announcements and things like that.

12:23

Many of y 'all have tuned in and know that there is an impending debate on the horizon that Clay Fisher and I will get into.

12:35

Are you back already? I didn't even get to do a shameless plug. Okay, I was getting people ready for a debate now.

12:41

Yeah, so tell us a little bit about this turtle book. Well, I was given this book at Christmas, and it was given to him on like a

12:48

Saturday, I think. And by Monday, I read it twice. I've got a few notes in it, if you can tell.

12:57

But, I mean, it's just, it's a local preacher here who wrote it. I reached out to a couple people at his church, reached out to him, and just asked if I could ask questions.

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I was like, I don't wanna debate. I don't wanna argue. I just simply want to ask questions. I said

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I'd do it in his church with his elders, as long as I could just bring one person with me, just as a witness that I didn't scream, holler, shout, or anything like that.

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So I just asked if I could come and ask questions, and no, nope. And so he told me to text him a few questions, and he'd get back with me, but he hasn't.

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That was back in January. So since he's not gonna get with me and I can't ask the questions,

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I just wanna go through this book and show the inconsistencies and the blatant contradictions of it. When people say that they don't believe in works are not necessary for salvation, that's what they believe in.

13:48

No, the works are not necessary for salvation. You have to say that, but in his book, he actually says works are necessary for salvation.

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And so, literally says that. So I appreciate the honesty, but there's so many contradictions in it.

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I just wanna go through it. This is from a very, it's a Church of Christ preacher, and this is what they believe on justification on how to be saved.

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And so I just wanna go through it. Typically, they don't write things like this because of that, because it's gonna contradict everywhere.

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And I think that when people in the Church of Christ read it, they're not thinking through what they're reading, and so it doesn't really, they're not seeing it.

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But I think if you go through it slowly and just take your time and point out the things, it's so obvious.

14:30

I mean, it's just contradicting like from one sentence to the next. It's just a contradiction.

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So we'll go through it, and hopefully people will see it and learn from it. We talked to a lawyer, right, of fair use, how much we can show of the book.

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We're not gonna go through. I would like to go through it word for word, but you can't do that, but because of fair use, we can critique the book, and we will.

14:54

And so hopefully people will learn from it and get a lot from it. So who do you think the debate challenge is for?

15:01

A .K. Richardson, Aaron Gallagher, Mike Hysaw, T .T. OTT? What's the vote?

15:08

I'm gonna say A .K. Richardson. This is gonna blow your mind,

15:13

Trey. What you got? It's gonna blow your mind. Before we continue onward, wanna thank everybody that's tuned in to the

15:20

Apologetic Dog. If you've ever benefited from this content, just wanna encourage you to please like, subscribe, smash that notification bell.

15:27

As I've heard Trey Fisher mention a time or two. And continue to please share this content.

15:34

I've noticed studying the analytics that if you share the content along with liking it, then it really kind of spreads the ministry out and helps more viewership and a wider audience as we contend for the gospel of grace.

15:49

Okay, so as we continue on, Trey, do you remember this conference back in February?

15:57

Yes, I do remember. Why Calvinism? Apologetic Dog, why

16:04

Calvinism? So this was the theme of the conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

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You're a Calvinist. That is true. John Calvin. Trey, I've heard that so many times, man.

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It's like, I wanna tell people that say that. I'm a Baptist. Literally, John Calvin would have not had kind things to say about me.

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No. But when we do talk about Calvinism, Sagan.

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No, go ahead. I don't wanna go off on a tangent on covenants. No, no, no, hey, we got time. We got time.

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But when we do talk about Calvinism, we're talking about essentially the doctrines of grace, the tulip acrostic.

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And this conference is wonderful. Archive people can go to Open Air Theology, Jeffrey Rice's YouTube channel.

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And I believe they're building a website that's gonna be really nice. And we had a ton of speakers.

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And Trey, did you know that I was the replacement for Tom Buck? Like, what in the world?

17:04

Come on, big timer, dude. Well, it was an honor. I got to talk about essentially

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God's sovereignty in the believer's suffering. And so that was just incredible preparation and time to be able to encourage people that your suffering is bestowed as a gift from above, meant to sanctify you for your good and for God's glory.

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But I also had a chance to speak at the pre -conference against, or, and I was able to warn people about the dangers of hyper -preterism.

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Have you ever heard of the term unicorn before? We, I labeled them unicorns.

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Oh yeah, that was you. I still can't believe there's really people out there.

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What, an orange oaky unicorn? And a church of Christ. I don't know if orange oaky is out in the chat.

17:56

The big dog, remember that me and Dr. Frost were gonna debate the church of Christ preacher, Don Preston and Michael Sultan at Arkansas State.

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And then they backed out because I talked to them and they said that they felt like I was a loose cannon. And I said,

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I am a cannon, but I'm not loose. I am a cannon, but I'm not loose. Cause I was like, listen, here's what y 'all are gonna do.

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Y 'all are gonna try to pin me a postmeal against Dr. Frost as an ommeal. But the minute you do that,

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I'm gonna expose both of you for one being a church of Christ and one being a Baptist. And y 'all can't even decide on how to even get on the bus, much less what the end times is gonna be like.

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And they're like, oh, we're done. We're not gonna do that with you. Something I heard recently was Don Preston was kicked out of the

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COC world. So I don't know where he attends and whatnot. He got kicked out and he's speaking.

18:46

You don't get kicked out of the COC. He might get kicked out of his congregation, but there's not - Jeremiah, let me tell you about the church of Christ.

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They're not a global nation, okay? Oh! Like they're all autonomous churches.

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They just all happen to believe the exact same thing. But yeah, so he couldn't get kicked out of the church of Christ, like he was kicked out of the

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Mormon church. So, hey. Two points for me. I'll give a quick shout out to Wesley Watkins.

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Wesley's my boy. He's a member at 12 Five Church. And I wanna just tell people,

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I also serve as a pastor and elder. 12 Five Church in Northeast Arkansas. So if you're anywhere in the area, please come check us out.

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We'd love to show you around for you to check out our time of fellowship. Trey, I've told you about this.

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We do something very unique at 12 Five. We're very liturgical. And after the preaching of the word, we have a time of Koinonia, the love feast, where we always have a meal together.

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And usually we have over 100 people stay around for that. And we are the only Reformed Baptist church in Jonesboro.

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And so, we're the only one. We have our Presbyterian brothers. We love that.

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But we want to go against the grain and let everybody know that even though we may differ on some doctrine with evangelical churches, if we're preaching the right gospel, then we can find some level of fellowship.

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And so a lot of times before the service, we pray for a local evangelical church. But we also pray for a church in Louisiana.

20:18

Heck yeah, you do. I don't know if you've ever heard of the - The Parish of the Redeemer. Parish of the Redeemer. So y 'all are getting some prayers from Jonesboro, Arkansas land.

20:28

I appreciate that, man. That's great. We'll start praying for 12 Five up in the house. Thank you, thank you. So yeah, if you're ever in North Louisiana and you're looking for a

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Reformed Baptist church that's post -millennial, because we worship a conquering king, huh?

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A conquering king who gets his inheritance. The coffee went down the wrong tube there.

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Not a loser. So if you're looking for that in North Louisiana, you can come to Potter. Parish of the

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Redeemer. Parish means church. Redeemer is Christ. So hey, even for the Church of Christers, we're the parish of the

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Redeemer. You gotta love it. Why not Church of Christ Romans 16, 16?

21:06

Oh man, stop it. So what about this white Calvinism? How did that conference go?

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Is there another one coming up? When Church of Christ bring up Romans 16, 16, I just say, well,

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Romans 12, verse five comes before Romans 16, 16, and we're 12 Five Church. Yeah, in Romans 5, 1 comes before Romans 6, 1.

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Oh, got him again. So yeah, this conference, I'll encourage people to go check it out.

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This was the conference train where Dr. James White debated Jason Breda on the atonement, and it was a showdown.

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And when I say a showdown, it was a show, all right. It was a beat down. It was a beat down.

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It wasn't a showdown. Well, so this next year,

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February coming up, we're having another conference. And so it's kind of piggybacking off of, you know, talking about the sovereignty of God, white

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Calvinism, but Calvinism just doesn't talk about the moment when someone is regenerated and justified before God.

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This Calvinism also talks about how God is with us even in low to the end of the age by sanctification, by sending us the

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Holy Spirit, setting us apart from the world and conforming us more into the image of Christ. And so February 2025, and like I said,

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Jeffrey Rice at Open Air Theology, please hit him up on Facebook and please get your tickets because tickets are gonna sell out.

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And last year we had a huge crowd, especially with a debate with Dr. White and Jason Britta. It was the last event of the whole conference.

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And so it was incredible. And so this year it's going to be on sanctification. We may have to get the fishbone to come check it out.

22:52

Amen. Send me the invite, baby. Something that is important when we are talking about a believer of sanctification is there is a war going on between the spirit and the flesh.

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So we have a lot of speakers lined up. We're gonna have some new speakers, this go around. And so I got to speak two times at last year's conference.

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I even got to talk with Dr. White right before he went on the debate platform in the cross -examination.

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I got to rev the engine train. I was like, Dr. White, don't hold back. He's like, he said, it's not gonna be pretty.

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And I said, hey, this gentleman over here signed up for it. So I just want to, once again, encourage people to go check out last year's debate with Dr.

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White. Butt train. That leads me to why I have you on today. So this year we're gonna have a different debater than Dr.

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White. AK Richardson. How's he doing in the poll? Oh man, he's got a high percentage there.

23:54

I'll tell everybody that's tuning in and listening a little bit about the poll that's going on. Here's the poll, I don't see it. But I want to encourage everyone to keep

24:02

Dr. James White in prayer. He's had a rough past couple of weeks. He's been having surgery and he's already done like I think seven debates and it's

24:15

May this year. And so also if you're new to the Apologetic Dog, I have a live stream that was a handful of weeks ago where I actually had

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Dr. White on and we did a debate tour review where we kind of reviewed highlight reel of the five debates that he pulled off.

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Oh my goodness, Trey, in like one month or a month and a half. Yeah, he's busy. He's a busy man and he's, like I said, been going through some medical things.

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So keep him in prayer. And so he's really not going to be planning a whole lot in advance for 2025.

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He just wants to see what doors God opens when it gets closer to time. And so Jeffrey Rice said,

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Jeremiah, we need a debater for the conference. And I was like, oh, you want the Apologetic Dog is what you're getting at.

24:58

And he said, exactly. He said, exactly. He said, so Jeremiah, I have something for you to do for me.

25:06

He says, number one, I want you to get a debate proposition, which we'll talk about here in a little bit, but it needs to relate to sanctification.

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And then I need for you to find a debater that will engage you in the dojo in Tullahoma, Tennessee at the next conference.

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Tullahoma. I can do it. And he had one more request, Trey. He said, I really would like for it to be a member of the

25:30

Church of Christ. And I said, are you serious? I said, I have a long line of them. So I'll get on it quickly.

25:39

And so if people are tuning in, what maybe they can't see in the live chat is we took a poll.

25:46

And so let me ask you this, Trey. Who do you think this debate challenge is for? Do you think it's old

25:51

AK Richardson? Do you think it's Aaron Gallagher, Mike Hysall, AKA your great uncle, or Travis Thomas, dot, dot, dot, old

26:00

TT? I would love it to be a TT. And well, cause

26:05

I know Aaron Gallagher's not gonna do it. You've done AK Richardson. You've done

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Michael Hysall. You've done, I don't know if you debated TT. So you hadn't like debated TT, but I mean -

26:17

But you called him to a show. But you hadn't debated him, you know what I'm saying? And so I think it'd be fun if you did.

26:22

Cause he would like get so mad. He'd like throw chairs and stuff and get all mad. But if you're thinking, listen to me, listen to me,

26:30

Church of Christ world. If you think Aaron Gallagher is gonna, look, this dude is different for me.

26:37

This dude, the dog, Jeremiah, will sit in a dungeon for three months, watch every video somebody has done and pick it apart and study and get ready for debate.

26:48

Not me, that's not my thing. I just sit down and say, let's go. The dog would do that. If anybody in here thinks that Aaron Gallagher will debate

26:56

Jeremiah, I don't think y 'all know Aaron Gallagher. Like, I know Aaron Gallagher. He's not gonna do it.

27:01

Like, you might as well find somebody else, bro. Hey, Scott. Well, Wesley Watkins chimes in and says,

27:09

I hope it's Gallagher. So, okay, we got some people. Wesley Watkins from 12 .5

27:16

Church in Jonesboro. And so I just wanna thank everybody for tuning in. I see Brian Simmons in the side chat.

27:23

Thank you for joining in. The Lehman Seminary, thank you so much for tuning in. Got old Fergie Ferg out there.

27:29

The unapologetic cat thinks the debate challenge is for T -Fish. Oh, yeah.

27:38

Let me see here. Come on, cat mama. Paul Mays. Let me show people. Henry said, Paul Mays. Oh, that would have been a good choice.

27:48

You know what, Paul Mays would bury me in a kind of debate, a sing -off, an acapella off.

27:57

A nasal sing -off? Don't do it, Trey, don't do it. I'm not gonna sing it.

28:03

Stop it, don't spit your coffee out. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it'd be fun to get

28:08

Aaron Gallagher to do it. I'm just telling you, homie ain't gonna do it.

28:14

I mean, you could tell him this thing is in three years from now and he'll have something come up on his calendar.

28:20

So when is this thing? Is it like in February or something? This will be, yeah, it's around February 20th, that weekend, whatever's closest to the 20th.

28:32

He's booked, he's got stuff planned, man. He would have, now he would have, but he's just already booked up, he can't do it.

28:40

That's what you're gonna get. You're not gonna get it. Are you ready, Trey? I think you're gonna be surprised at this challenge.

28:46

Adam Carmichael says, I'm with Trey. I wish it was OTT, because Adam knows that, oh,

28:54

Gallagher ain't gonna do it. Just had the wifey unchained say, tell us already.

29:02

How's the project puppy? He's fussy, that's my boy. All right, without further ado, to keep the wife happy, it is, in fact, the

29:12

Gallagher. What? He ain't gonna do it. Wanna congratulate everybody.

29:19

We had 60 % in favor of Aaron Gallagher. We did have a close second with A .K.

29:24

Richardson at 27%. But you know what? Let's see. A .K. Richardson, he says,

29:30

Jeremiah, he's told me, don't associate me with the Church of Christ. He goes, I represent my own person.

29:35

I said, fair. I said, but we're still gonna square off again one of these days. And I saw, unfortunately, he got 0%.

29:42

What did old Carl say? Oh, look at what Carl says. He says, Jeremiah, rumor has it that GBN offered you to come on their broadcast and you refused because you wanted to be a project dog.

29:53

Is that true? What? What? They'll make up anything. They will slander and there's no telling.

30:00

They'll say whatever. I bet Carl's joking. Carl, are you serious? I'm telling you, you put nothing past him.

30:08

I'm telling you. I'll have to leave that on the screen for a minute. Yeah.

30:15

So I wanna know if Carl, Carl, do you think that Aaron Gallagher would debate Jeremiah at this thing?

30:21

I say no, Carl. What do you say, Carl? Carl, I have not received any offer from GBN, anyone asking to debate me.

30:33

I've had people here and there message me on Facebook saying, hey, would you do this? And I told them, hey, I'm actually interested in that.

30:39

And I have basically Donnie with the Debate Dojo on YouTube. His channel's called

30:45

Staying for Truth. He's always ready for me to schedule debates, online debate, and then obviously Marlon Wilson at the

30:51

Gospel Truth. But I do wanna tell people that doing in -person debates takes a lot of time, energy, and potential money to advertise and promote.

31:01

And so when I debated Mike Heisel at 12 Five Church, you know, we didn't invest a ton of money in doing that, but we were able to actually do it live and in person, and he traveled down from Texas.

31:11

We had a great time, Troy. I think you would thoroughly enjoy meeting

31:16

Mike and his son in person. Very kind, respectful individuals, but it got a little fiery during the cross -ex.

31:22

I would like to meet him and ask him who are the people he talked to. People from here, they always, seems like everybody around the country gets to talk to the people around my hometown, the

31:32

Church of Christ is around my hometown. But here's Carl Henry, you know, I asked him, I said, do you think Aaron Gallagher would debate?

31:39

You in this thing, and Carl's answer was, I don't know Aaron Gallagher personally.

31:46

That wasn't the question, Carl. That'd be like somebody asking me, do you think Michael Jordan would beat

31:52

LeBron James in basketball? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know him personally. Like, don't matter.

31:58

Carl, the question is, do you think, do you think, not do you know him, but do you think

32:04

Aaron Gallagher would debate the dog in February on sanctification?

32:12

I say, no way. What do you say, Carl? Try, come on.

32:19

Where's our other Church of Christ -ers in here? Yeah, you know they're watching from afar. From afar.

32:27

Adam Carmichael said that anyone who does an eight and a half hour debate review would be dumb not to take this.

32:35

Adam Carmichael in the building. Where did he say that? Where's ol' Adam?

32:43

I love Adam Carmichael. Did you know he's a deacon at 12 Five Church? Whoop, whoop, he better be a deacon.

32:50

He's also the administrator of setting up chairs, tear down and set up, and he does a phenomenal job.

32:58

Yep, he's deacon of Park Lauderdale. That is a task. Adam has his hands full. Adam's a little bit in everything. I was gonna put that post of Adam before we move on to our next.

33:10

Okay, we had Carl interact with us a little bit more. Carl Henry.

33:16

He doesn't know, but there are qualified debaters who would. So I'm confused. Were there rumors?

33:24

Are there legitimately rumors saying that I refuse to go to GBN place and debate?

33:31

Isn't that the question? Well, you're asking Carl, right? I know you're not asking me. Carl said that GBN offered you to come to GBN.

33:41

And was it a debate? Is that what he said? Carl, what are you talking about, man? I do not know what he's talking about.

33:48

I think Carl would invite, and let's just get Carl on here, and we can discuss with Carl. Here he says,

33:54

Jeremiah, rumor has it that GBN offered you to come on their broadcast and you refuse because you wanted on the apologetic dog.

34:02

Is that true? And then he put in quotes, seriously. He put brackets, seriously.

34:09

So he's not joking. Nope, didn't happen. If they would have said, hey, let's set up this thing, and this is the time and location,

34:18

I would have. Trey, you know me. Ain't scared. Adam Carmichael just wants everybody to know that he's

34:26

Amil. And he thinks that, you know, nevermind. I love

34:31

Adam. I love Adam. But, you know, we're winners over here,

34:36

Adam. Amen to that. Come over here. Yeah, so anyway, what do you think,

34:42

Jeremiah? You think, you should have texted or emailed or invited Aaron on this right here so we could discuss it with him.

34:51

I will say, I sent him the link to this. Hopefully he's watching. If anybody is in Church of Christ or would like to see this debate happen, please encourage

35:01

Gallagher that this would be a good opportunity to debate on sanctification.

35:07

In fact, let's talk about a little bit more of what's going to be expected. Are you ready for this,

35:13

Trey? Yeah. Okay, so something, like I said,

35:19

I wanna encourage people, if they'd like to see this debate happen, just let Gallagher know that this will be a good opportunity, that this is almost a year away.

35:29

Gavin's on here. What's up, Gavin? Gavin's in the building, too? Yeah, I mean,

35:35

Gavin loves Aaron Gallagher. Maybe Gavin can push

35:40

Aaron Gallagher into this. I don't know. I did ask Gavin, though. I said, do you believe that Jews were born into a saving relationship with God like Gallagher believes?

35:51

And he honestly said, he's like, I need to look into this more. He says, but I'm totally willing to disagree with Gallagher if I have to.

35:59

And I said, I appreciate that. Appreciate it. Wow. But Gavin, let Gallagher know that this is a good opportunity.

36:06

We have plenty of time to plan in advance. And like I said, I'm gonna bring up some points here of what we can potentially do a debate on, whether if Gallagher really wants me to take an affirmative or negative position.

36:18

I'm all game. Like, I wanna be as flexible and agreeable to certain stipulations and rules to the debate.

36:27

So, that kinda brings me to this. Let me see if I can pull this up. This will be a debate on sanctification,

36:35

Trey. And the reason why we wanna pinpoint this is because the

36:42

Reformed, we understand that there is a strong relationship between justification and sanctification, but they are distinct.

36:49

They're inseparable. And we'll be able to say the moment that a person is justified, they are immediately set apart.

36:55

But that justification, since it is because of a transformed heart that God accomplished, that He took out that heart of stone, and that He gave them a heart of flesh, then

37:06

God will continue a work in sanctification into glory one day.

37:11

And so, tell me, what's the Church of Christ view when it comes to sanctification? Let's see, here's the thing.

37:17

I was just thinking about that. There's not a lot of talk of sanctification in the Church of Christ. Most people in the Church of Christ really don't even know what the term sanctification means.

37:25

Now, Gavin, don't, don't, just hold on. If I threw a blanket over the majority of the people in the

37:33

Church of Christ, they would not know what sanctification, that theological term means. That's what I mean by that.

37:39

Not saying that not every, there's not one Church of Christ person that doesn't know the term. But most don't.

37:44

And it's not talked of much. But basically, you know, there's sanctification. I mean, being set apart.

37:51

That's not the Spirit. They don't believe that's the Spirit of God in them doing it. It's them and their effort. It's their works, their efforts of being more like Christ, because Christ is more like an example of us to be more like Him, and just white -knuckle it and do your best.

38:08

That would be the majority view of the Church of Christ. And maybe even

38:13

Gallagher's. I have no idea. But I don't think they spend a lot of time on sanctification done by the

38:19

Spirit. I think they'd have a hard time once they get into the Scriptures talking about sanctification. Like here in 2

38:25

Thessalonians, it's through the sanctification by the Spirit. 1 Peter, the sanctification of the

38:30

Spirit. So it's the Spirit of God who's also sanctifying us, you know, and setting us apart and continually working in us and conforming us into the image of Christ.

38:41

So that's just not talked a lot about in the Church of Christ. It's mainly, like I said, white -knuckle it and you do it. I did wanna bring up Scripture, because you did bring up the

38:51

Holy Spirit. And so sanctification is being set apart for holy use, sanctified use.

38:58

And tell me if you can see this on your end. So, oh, oh, oh, come on now. Don't film me now.

39:05

So in 1 Peter 1, Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who are elect, that's an important word, exiles of the dispersion in Pontius, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the

39:19

Father in the sanctification of the Spirit for obedience,

39:24

Trey, you gotta obey the gospel, right? Obey, obedience to Jesus Christ for the sprinkling with his blood.

39:31

And so I love bringing up this passive Scripture to highlight the sanctification in the

39:37

Spirit. And this is why we obey, right? Because of the sanctification of the

39:44

Spirit, the Holy Spirit indwelling us, there are a lot of Church of Christ that would actually deny the ontological indwelling of the

39:52

Holy Spirit, meaning that the Holy Spirit literally. Right, they think it's the word of God, like the

39:57

Bible is the Spirit. And so if, you know, the thing is, like for people like T .T.,

40:03

you know, he's one of the Church of Christ, not all Church of Christers believe this. Some do believe the Holy Spirit actually indwells you.

40:09

And there's a lot that believe that the Holy Spirit is actually the Bible, God's word. And I think Aaron is in that bunch where the

40:16

Spirit of the Holy Spirit doesn't indwell you. I think he thinks it's the Bible.

40:21

I could be wrong. If I am, y 'all do the debate and you can clear that up,

40:27

Aaron. But if the Spirit is the Bible, and if you have to have the Spirit of God in order to go to heaven, then just carry around your

40:35

Bible, because that's the Spirit. Yeah, the inspired scriptures, the inspiration of the

40:44

Holy Spirit, you have this Holy Spirit in you when you're reading the Scripture and it's in your mind.

40:50

That is one kind of bizarre view. And I tell people, let them know that you deny a literal indwelling of the

40:57

Holy Spirit, because the Scripture tells us, unless you have the indwelling Holy Spirit, the actual indwelling of the

41:03

Holy Spirit, then you're not a child of God. So I'm like, let people know that. I was also gonna say - I hope Paul Mays believes that.

41:09

You know, T .T. and Paul Mays, the songwriter. Your best friends out there. Yes, this is another verse.

41:16

Even though it doesn't say the word sanctification, we would interpret salvation to be meaning that very thing.

41:22

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, Trey, why are you trying to disobey the gospel? You know what

41:28

I mean? Because what we get accused of being Reformed, Reformed Baptists, is, oh, you believe you don't have to do anything.

41:35

You can disobey the gospel. We talk about this all the time. To obey means to submit, to be in agreement with.

41:42

And you can obey commands, meaning a response, not in your works, but from a heart of faith.

41:48

And so that heart of faith then does lead to external acts, external works of obedience.

41:53

And so that's kind of the framework here. He's writing a letter to Christians who have already had work done in,

42:01

I believe it's Philippians 1 .6. It says, he who began that good work in you, that work of regeneration, God will see it to completion at the day of Christ Jesus.

42:09

So he's writing to believers, as you have always obeyed, so now not only in my presence, Paul says, but much more in my absence.

42:17

Now this is a key. Work out your own salvation. I would interpret this sanctification with fear and trembling.

42:25

But this is a work of God in you by the Holy Spirit, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

42:36

Right, and I'd say even more so on that right there in Philippians when it's talking about work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it's

42:42

God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. A lot of people think, well, you know, you work out your salvation how you want.

42:48

I'll work out mine how I want. That's not what it's talking about. The context is that Paul is in prison writing this.

42:54

He just got done saying that you've been granted two things from God.

43:01

One is to believe. The other thing you've been granted is to suffer. Then he goes into how

43:07

Christ suffered even to the point of death, you know, death on the cross. And so he says, like, so this is your salvation.

43:12

You're gonna be conformed into the image of Christ. Christ was a suffering servant. You're gonna suffer as well. Look at me,

43:18

I'm suffering, I'm in prison. So work all that out with fear and trembling, because it's not fun, but work out with fear and trembling.

43:24

You can go back into Romans five. This produces perseverance, you know what I'm saying? All the tribulations that you're gonna go through.

43:30

So work all that out. But here's the good news for you. It's gonna be God working in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

43:35

So you're gonna have the strength because God himself is gonna do it through you. So. Yeah, so in the side chat, we see

43:43

Gavin James. Devin, let us know if that's kind of your view that there's not an actual literal indwelling.

43:50

He says, oh, that's not the right comment. Spirit through the word is how they say it in my experience.

43:58

Is Gavin, Gavin, do you believe the spirit indwells you or is the spirit really the word of God that's really indwelling you?

44:05

It's just God's word. I'm pretty confident. I think I've heard Aaron Gallagher talk about that, that it's not even, it's not the spirit, it's the word of God that's actually indwelling you.

44:15

It's not the spirit of God himself, which is probably why he will not do this debate.

44:23

You know what I'm saying? Trey, Trey, he's gonna do the debate, man. You gotta believe, man. Especially on this one, like if you did baptism maybe, but he ain't gonna do, he's not gonna do sanctification.

44:35

I mean, he thinks that the spirit of God is the word of God and it doesn't indwell you other than like verses in the

44:41

Bible or in your head and that's the spirit of God. And it's you white knuckling it. Here's a good question from Bailey.

44:50

I guess this is aimed at both of us, mainly me. What is your fascination with the

44:56

Church of Christ? It's the same fascination that Paul had with the Judaizers and the false gospels that were preached.

45:04

And he said that he didn't back down, not even for a moment, in order to preserve the truth of the gospel for them.

45:11

So he took on the false gospel and the false teachings of the heretical teachings of faith plus a ceremony equals salvation.

45:20

And in chapter four, he says, look at my now your enemy, because I tell you the truth, actually, because I love you.

45:26

And that's why Paul's doing that. And that's why I'm doing it. I think that's, with all my heart, I believe that's why

45:31

Jeremiah is doing it because he loves these people. Cause I truly do love the people in the Church of Christ. And I want them to see that the gospel is more beautiful than they've been taught it was.

45:40

And it's just much more, like grace is more gracious than they could ever believe that salvation is truly a gift from God.

45:49

It's not a gift that you do something to receive. So I mean, I could go on and on and on. Jeremiah, go ahead.

45:55

My answer is very similar. I've always been intrigued with apologetics.

46:01

And so I live in Jonesboro, Arkansas, Northeast Arkansas. And something that's prevalent in my area is the

46:09

Southern Baptists, which are our dear brothers and believe in the gospel of grace and very thankful for many brothers and sisters that are in SBC churches, wanting to live their lives to the glory of God.

46:20

But what is also is very popular in Jonesboro are the Church of Christ. And so as I began many years ago, about a decade ago, interacting with friends in the community and meeting people that were

46:32

Church of Christ, talking about spiritual truths, talking about the gospel and realizing, oh, we're on two different planets.

46:39

We're using a lot of the same terminology, but we mean way different things. And so I remember talking with one

46:45

Church of Christ preacher bringing up Acts 2 .38 and Acts 22 .16. And I remember in the conversation,

46:51

I was like, wait, wait, y 'all literally think that you contact the blood of Jesus and you wash away your sins in the water of baptism.

47:01

It doesn't signify the reality of what God has already done in your heart and your life.

47:06

And so I figured out very quickly, two different gospels. And it's similar to like the oneness

47:13

Pentecostals. They're gonna say they believe in Jesus. The Church of Christ are gonna say they believe in Jesus Christ and the gospel, but we have to define our church.

47:22

And that they're saved by faith. But when you ask the oneness Pentecostal who Jesus is, they're gonna say, oh, it's the

47:27

Father. And the Holy Spirit is the force of God in the human

47:33

Jesus on earth. And you're like, oh, that's a full on denial of the

47:38

Trinity, right? The distinction of the person that make up fully the one essence and the one nature of the eternal creator

47:45

God. And so with the Church of Christ, they fundamentally deny that our justification is by faith apart from works.

47:53

That's what the whole Protestant Reformation was about. That Martin Luther was ultimately taking a stand against the

48:01

Roman Catholic Church and the sacramental works that they put on people's backs.

48:07

And he says, no, no justification is by faith apart from works. And so that's similar with the

48:12

Church of Christ is they're saying faith plus baptism. Faith plus an ongoing life of quote unquote faithfulness, but what they mean is obedience.

48:23

And I tell them that they are returning back to the old covenant, the covenant of works that never could save and could only condemn man.

48:32

Well, it's like, and it's this right here. So this is a little bit from the turtle book that we're gonna do. Some things that we're gonna point out here in the

48:38

Church of Christ turtle book. On page 43, he's talking about, it says faith plus works equals salvation.

48:46

And he says, that's wrong. So faith plus works equals salvation is wrong. And that is a self -righteousness.

48:54

That's a works -based salvation. That's wrong. Faith plus works equals salvation is wrong.

49:00

I turn the page on 44. So 43, that's what it said. Faith plus works equals salvation, wrong.

49:06

That's legalism, that's earning your salvation. The true formula is faith plus works equals complete saving faith.

49:16

You're ready for that turtle book, aren't you? Well, I'm like, wait, if I asked this guy, hey, do you have complete saving faith?

49:22

Or if I said, hey, look, do you have salvation? He would say, well, yeah, I've been saved. I'd say, well, do you have complete saving faith?

49:29

Yeah. What's the difference? What's different from salvation and complete saving faith, right?

49:34

And he says right under that, so are works necessary for salvation, question mark.

49:39

Next sentence, it's one word. It says, yes. So now he would say, well, no, works are not necessary for salvation, but then he says works are necessary for salvation, very clearly.

49:50

And then he goes on to say that Romans, says the most clear statement in the

49:55

Bible is that we're justified by faith apart from works. I'm like, this is the most confusing thing.

50:02

If you're just like, if someone is actually reading this, that had no church of Christ background, and they would read that, they would say, this is the most contradictory thing

50:12

I've ever read. So faith plus works equals salvation is wrong in legalism, but faith plus works equals complete saving faith.

50:19

That's correct. And there's no works involved, but yes. Are works necessary for salvation?

50:25

Yes. And the most clear statement in the Bible about justification is in Romans, where it says that we're justified by faith apart from any works.

50:35

That, what? Excuse me, what? So anyway, I mean, those are the things that we wanna show the church of Christ that they don't catch because it's been dripped in their head so long, right?

50:46

And so they just don't even see it. They don't even recognize it when it's just right in front of them. And it's sad.

50:51

It really is sad. I wanna bring up your best friend, Carl, real quick.

50:58

Uncle Carl. He says, if you know with absolute certainty, Trey, that Gallagher will turn down this debate offer, then it's a worthless offer.

51:06

I have faith in Gallagher, Trey. I think he's going to accept. Jake says, do you not think

51:14

Trey did a good enough job in his debates with Aaron? Well, Jake, little buddy Jake, he took it as a debate.

51:23

I took it as conversations. So whatever. I think I did pretty good when his own friends were, you know, saying, man,

51:30

I need to look at this stuff. Jake is coming in a little bit late. So maybe he doesn't know that we're actually,

51:38

I'm a part of a conference on sanctification coming up in February of next year. And they've asked me to debate on the reformed understanding of sanctification.

51:48

And it's up to me, Jake, to have a contender, an interlocutor. And Gallagher did an eight and a half debate review of me and your dad.

52:02

And so I think he would be a great, I think this would be a great opportunity for us to kind of spar and cross swords.

52:09

And so I thought you did a great job with Gallagher. And yeah, I want to crack at it too.

52:16

Put Orange Okie up there. He's right under Jake's comment. Ah, Orange.

52:23

Hey, I'm telling you. I just want to say this to Orange. From the last podcast we did where Orange Okie's in there talking,

52:31

I say we do not answer any of Orange Okie's questions until he puts on here that he believes that Jesus Christ has already came back and that we're in heaven now.

52:42

If he can just go ahead and actually say that, because I have a hard time believing he really believes that.

52:48

But you say he's a full preterist and that he believes that the resurrection's already happened. So if he really believes that, he's going to have to put that down.

52:57

And I can't take anyone serious who actually believes that. So hopefully he'll put that down.

53:03

I don't know. Yeah, let me know if he does it, because I'll definitely put it up there. Oh, going back to the question about what's my, our fascination with the

53:14

Church of Christ from Bailey. I wanted to, oh, remind me about this,

53:20

Trey. We'll help her out with, or we'll help Bailey out on Romans 10, 13. But going back to your initial question,

53:27

Bailey, about what's our fascination. Well, for me, this is an opportunity to evangelize the

53:32

Church of Christ. And as I was looking up online, any ministries that had any apologetics for the

53:40

Church of Christ, you know what I found? The fishbone on cultish. And that was about it.

53:46

And so I think there's an opportunity to help a lot of people understand what the Church of Christ teach, how they teach a false gospel, and you can equip the saints to better interact with them and to evangelize the

53:58

Church of Christ, because you and I believe God's sheep hear the good shepherd's voice. And so there are believers in the

54:07

Church of Christ that just haven't heard the right gospel. They're trusting in Christ alone, by faith alone, but they're being taught false doctrine.

54:15

They're being told that they must, in their faithfulness, be the ones that pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get wet and continue to live this self -righteous life.

54:27

Maybe not in those words, but that's the implication. And so I just wanted to also tell people that if we're friends on Facebook, you can look me up.

54:35

And on Trey's page, we have a Church of Christ exiles page where people that are being saved out of the

54:41

Church of Christ saying, man, I finally understand that it's not my working participation in a ceremony or my continued faithfulness that's going to guarantee me to go to heaven.

54:52

No, it's the finished work of Christ alone and the gift of faith, looking to Christ and his beauty and his perfect finished work.

55:00

And that's why I can go to heaven and ultimately be saved because of what he has done, not because of what

55:07

I can do or accomplish. And I wanna say too is what's crazy is when me and Aaron were talking, somebody said on there, like, what do we think about people who are

55:18

Christians and other denominations? And I'm literally saying, I think there's Christians in every denomination. I think

55:23

Christ's sheep are out there, but like John 10, they hear his voice and they come out and they get good pasture.

55:29

And so, yeah, I think there are many saved people, but they're under such a heavy yoke of works and bondage and such a false gospel and a false teachings and bad doctrines and bad theology of the

55:41

Church of Christ. They're just carrying such a weight on their shoulders and they're working and trying so hard, but they truly are

55:47

Christians. They're just carrying this weight. I want them to be freed of that. I want them to see that his burden is light, you know?

55:55

And then Aaron goes, so you're baptized? He's like, yeah. He said, yeah, you're all saved. Like nobody except in the

56:02

Church of Christ are saved. And we're the mean ones, right? We're the bad guys. And I'm like, dude,

56:07

I'm telling you, there are people, I just want you to understand what Christ has done for you. And they're like, no, you're out.

56:13

Like you said, if somebody's dying and they don't have the opportunity to get baptized, he gives a 10 minute answer.

56:20

So you try to forget the question. So he can just say, yeah, no, you're out. You didn't get dunked in water.

56:27

So I hope that answers your question, Bailey, that I see my fascination is really more of a heart to evangelize the

56:34

Church of Christ. And I've heard Trey Fisher talk about how this is our Nineveh. It's not something you necessarily sign up for, but it's more of a calling and we see opportunity.

56:42

We've already seen so many people come out of the Church of Christ that email us all around the world and then join the

56:48

Church of Christ Exiles groups. And then we get to interview them, right? Like old Derek Healy. That's just fantastic.

56:54

We've got seven preachers who've left the Church of Christ. And four of them was from my talks with Aaron Gallagher.

57:01

Four preachers left. One of them, I can't wait for him to actually come out, but he is actually reforming

57:09

Church of Christ right now. He's still staying in there. And he's been a,

57:15

I won't even say how long, but decades, decades he's been in the Church of Christ preaching. But he is now preaching, you know, faith alone and Christ alone and the doctrines of grace in the churches of Christ.

57:26

And they are eating it up because they just trust him, right? They believe him. And so they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:32

Because he has that relationship and he was already in that position. So he just said, and still, instead of just leaving,

57:37

I'm gonna preach the doctrines of grace until I get ran out of every congregation

57:42

I preach in, right? And he's been doing it for decades. So I can't wait for him to come out, talk to him a couple of times.

57:50

And eventually he's gonna come on our Exiles page and we're gonna do an interview with him. And it's gonna be awesome.

57:56

We got a number of interviews lined up. We don't have set dates. We have a number of people that I would love for us to be able to sit down.

58:03

Got a young man that traveled from Alabama to be discipled and is a member at 12

58:09

Five Church. And he told me that one day soon he really wants to share his story with the world and incredible young man.

58:15

And so I wanna answer Bailey's question also. What's our explanation of Romans 10, 13?

58:22

Trey, I'll give you first cracks. This is the quotation from Joel in the Old Testament that Paul applies to Christ in the

58:28

New. It says, for everyone who calls, do you not know that's a work, Trey, when you call upon the name of the

58:34

Lord to be saved? So why are you trying to add works to the gobbler? I would say this is a heartfelt allegiance change, a heart change towards calling on someone, calling upon a deity for any purpose to invoke, to call upon, call out.

58:48

That's the Greek word for it and the meaning of it. So it's an allegiance change. You see that. And so here's the problem with the

58:54

Church of Christ is like Aaron Gallagher would say that calling on the name of the Lord means being baptized, right?

59:02

And so if - It don't mean that. Literally, that's what they say. Like they go to, where is it? Acts 22, 16, calling on the name of the

59:10

Lord. But if that's true, if calling upon the name of the Lord means being baptized, that's weird because he says, what are you waiting for,

59:18

Paul? Get up and be baptized and be baptized. If calling on the name of the Lord means baptized.

59:24

But the other thing is, what's neat is if you go all the way back to Genesis chapter four, verse 26, right?

59:31

Can you bring up Genesis 4, 26? It says to Seth, also a son was born and he called his name

59:39

Enosh. At that time, people began to what?

59:46

Verse 26. At that time, people began to what? There it is.

59:51

Here we go. At that time, people began to what? Get baptized. Because that's according to Aaron Gallagher, that's what calling upon the name of the

01:00:00

Lord means. It means you're getting baptized. So all the way back to Genesis 4, people began to be baptized with Jesus.

01:00:08

You make a great point. You can't just say, well, it changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. No, you have to have a principle that is congruent from Old Testament to New Testament.

01:00:18

And all Gallagher believes that Jews are born into a saving relationship with God. And so, because they're

01:00:26

Jews. And I heard him bring that out in his debate review of me and Mike. I saw, and oh yeah, we did a review of the review.

01:00:35

We did a review of the review. And he says that when they went to the temple, the Pharisee and the tax collector were both in a saving relationship with Jesus Christ because they were both

01:00:43

Jews. And I cannot explain enough how bad he does not understand the covenants of God and the

01:00:51

Abrahamic covenant, right? If that's what he really believes. And which is what he believes. It's not like he just said it and it was a misstatement.

01:00:58

I mean, he doubled down on it. I mean, he kept going. He kept talking about it. And so, very bad, very bad theology there.

01:01:08

What are you saying? I'm sorry, I lost some questions. Oh, there we go. So, hope that helps

01:01:13

Bailey, our understanding of Romans 10, 13. Confessing Jesus as Lord, calling upon the name of the

01:01:19

Lord is not a work, but it's pointing out that calling, that confession is a heart of worship. And like Paul was saying earlier in Romans 10, that with the heart, one believes and is justified by God.

01:01:31

And so, from a person's own experience or another person watching somebody become saved, well, yeah, that transformed heart is gonna now manifest with saying words of affirmation.

01:01:43

You can't read this so literalistically and say, well, if someone that's mute can't say the right words, well, then they're not gonna make it into the kingdom of heaven.

01:01:52

So, Paul's getting to the more fundamental heart level because we are justified by faith apart from works.

01:01:58

And so, Jake Hysall, help me out, Trey. I'm trying to understand Jake here. I mean, I figured he would be so happy with me that I debated his dad in my own church.

01:02:07

You know what I mean? And I have to say, it's not my church, it's the Lord's church that I'm a pastor at and praise

01:02:15

God. So, anyway, I gotta say that to the Church of Christ. But Jake says, why not try to debate a guy from one of the colleges preaching schools associated with the

01:02:23

Church of Christ? I did that, I debated your dad. You know what I mean? And so now -

01:02:30

Does he teach or? No, but I mean, he went to one of those schools. So, I figured he'd be a good representation of somebody that came from the moderate right leaning.

01:02:41

And so, I think Gallagher is a far right wing Church of Christ.

01:02:47

So, I don't know this for certain, but I know the far right wing, obviously they deny the ontological and dwelling of the

01:02:52

Holy Spirit, but they do not believe that when Christ returns, he's gonna set up a new heavens and new earth.

01:02:58

They only believe in heaven and hell binary. And so, when Christ does return, he's gonna do away with this earth completely.

01:03:05

Now, maybe not all far right wing, but I know that that is a majority view. And so, there are distinctions within Church of Christ.

01:03:13

And so, I always want to honor those distinction. And what Hysaw encouraged me to think about, and I actually really appreciated him telling me this.

01:03:21

He just said the Church of Christ kind of has four different sects. You have a far right wing, then you have a right leaning moderate, and that's where Hysaw would land.

01:03:29

I think like you've been saying, Gallagher would be a more far right, like the guy debated a couple years ago.

01:03:36

What's his name? Brock. Brock Kendall. And so, like Ol' T .T., he would be a far right wing.

01:03:43

And then, A .K. Richardson would be left leaning moderate. And so, you kind of see it come out, like he is gonna appeal to the

01:03:51

Greek, he's gonna talk about church history when it benefits his case, and he's not gonna be as associated with the

01:03:58

COC, like you see the right wingers that see themselves only as the one true church only.

01:04:05

Yeah, you might need to call somebody else. You're gonna, I'm gonna tell you, he's not gonna do sanctification.

01:04:12

He doesn't even believe the Spirit indwells you. He's not gonna go into a Reformed camp with a bunch of dudes who know the book and start debating that sanctification is you white knuckling it.

01:04:23

It's just memorizing scripture. What if I told you, Trey, that I had some suggestions of what we could debate on?

01:04:32

Maybe this will convince Gallagher. If he really wants me, if he wants me to take the negative, because ultimately, this debate's gonna be if you can lose your salvation or not.

01:04:43

And so, once again, these suggestions right here, we can talk about how to change it, but I'm trying to relate it to sanctification, so if I were to take a negation,

01:04:52

I would definitely negate this. If a believer, someone who is justified, not just mental ascent, Trey, but someone that has firm trust in King Jesus and is regenerate, a believer can quote -unquote lose their sanctification.

01:05:06

And I would say, no way. You have a believer can lose sanctification, not lose.

01:05:12

They can loosen it. Well, hey. They can make it not as tight. That's so funny.

01:05:19

That's good. People are saying, okay. You're a theologian, not a grammatical teacher, grammar teacher, you know?

01:05:25

That is true. Spelling is not my strong suit. You're not a spelling bee champion. You're the apologetic dog. A believer cannot loose or lose their sanctification, so we would deny that, because who the

01:05:39

Son sets free is free indeed, and so that involves a different nature, a change that happens at the moment of regeneration, which in our experience is faith, and that's something else that divides, we'll just say the

01:05:53

Reformed and the COC, is they deny that we have a sin nature, that we're not in bondage and slave to sin.

01:05:59

They're gonna say, well, you're just influenced by sin, and we're saying, no, no. That permeates your entire being, and that's why we read

01:06:06

Old and New Testament that there's not a God -seeker. There's none good, none righteous, no, not one.

01:06:12

There's no one that seeks after God. Right. So if - I mean, I think a better question is when these people will say, can a

01:06:19

Christian lose their salvation, right? So let me ask you this. Can Christ lose a

01:06:25

Christian? Mm -mm. Uh -oh. Because you already know, you'd have to define what we mean by Christian, right?

01:06:33

A Christ follower, a disciple, and so if we're talking about those who are justified and regenerate, absolutely not.

01:06:41

He loses none, all that the Father has given him, and he will raise them up on the last day. Contrary to Orange Oaky, he thinks that was 70

01:06:48

AD, Trey. That's great, stop it. Until Orange Oaky actually puts that down so I can see it, that he says it,

01:06:56

I just don't believe, I mean, I don't believe that a real person who's ever read the Bible can come up with that conclusion. Yeah.

01:07:04

So yeah, Jake, that's why I'm wanting to debate Gallagher, is because he's one of many people that have had to chime in on our video content and tell us how we're wrong, and Gallagher is an apologist.

01:07:19

He defends the COC doctrine as the one true church, so I don't understand why you're not saying, hey, this is a great, you know why he's not?

01:07:28

Because Jake Hysaul is right moderate, and Gallagher is far extreme right, so there's a division within their own camp on that one.

01:07:35

Well, and I know that if people hear Aaron Gallagher say that the Holy Spirit does not indwell a believer, like the Holy Spirit itself, like they're gonna be like, don't say that, please don't say that, please don't say that.

01:07:44

Oh, he said it, you know? But he's not gonna say it because he's not gonna debate you, so there's no point.

01:07:50

Who else can we get? Carl, who we got? Jake, who you got? I wanna see

01:07:57

Jake, there's somebody out there, you know more of him. Should we get a professor from Harding or something? You know,

01:08:02

I went to Harding. I just wanna thank Bob from, I just wanna thank Bob of Canada for pointing out my spelling error, loose.

01:08:11

Yes, my boy, Bob. Yeah, thank you. I need that heavy dose of humility.

01:08:17

Did you know I met my wife, Fish Mama, at Harding University? The Fish Mama? That's awesome.

01:08:23

Did you know that? You knew that, didn't you? Trey, yes, but you don't know what the Church of Christ believe.

01:08:29

No, I have no idea, no idea. Yeah, this is another thing

01:08:34

I'm starting to notice is no matter who I debate, it's never good enough. Jake, I plan on continuing to do

01:08:42

Debates Man, so this isn't the last one. And I've kind of debated the whole spectrum, because like I said,

01:08:49

AK is moderate left leaning, your dad is moderate right, and Brock Kendall is a far right wing, and so I think that's exactly where Gallagher, and Trey, I'm still holding on that he would accept this debate challenge.

01:09:04

He's not gonna do it. But look what Jake says. Jake says, that's actually not true. Aaron's a good guy. I didn't say he wasn't a good guy.

01:09:10

I just said he's not gonna do it. And I did say that I don't think they warn him to do it, because when they hear him say that the spirit doesn't dwell you.

01:09:18

But anyway, he says, that's actually not true. Aaron's a good guy. I'm just curious why you haven't tried to go after someone from a college?

01:09:24

Well, I mean, are you saying that, okay, Jake, are you saying that Aaron doesn't know as much as the people who teach at college?

01:09:32

Is that the point? Like if they're a professor at college, then they know more than Aaron? It doesn't really matter.

01:09:38

But really, this is a boring, this is a boring even discussion to me, because we all know he's not gonna do it, okay?

01:09:48

I wish he would. I mean, I think it'd be good. I think it'd be good if they did it and then put it on the gospel broadcasting network for 120 ,000

01:09:57

Church of Christers to see. But that's not gonna happen. That would be amazing, but it's not gonna happen.

01:10:03

Trey. Orange says, Trey is just desperate for Aaron to debate Jeremiah to save his poor performance in his discussion with Aaron.

01:10:11

Is that? The funny thing is these people think I actually care what they think about those conversations. That's the thing.

01:10:20

Did I really think going into this that all the Church of Christ was gonna say, yes, we were wrong and Aaron was wrong.

01:10:29

Like, did you think when you debated Michael Hysol, Jeremiah, that everybody in the Church of Christ was gonna say, man,

01:10:35

Jeremiah, you really wore him out? Did you think that? No, we have to remind them that we believe

01:10:41

God is sovereign and God's word never returns void. And I don't know everything. And so I just wanna,

01:10:47

I wanna be obedient to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. And so God gives the increase.

01:10:54

Trey, I actually had another, say again. Yes, she does know

01:10:59

I call her fish mama. And you gotta put up Jake's last post. Okay, I will do it.

01:11:07

This is what you're looking for in Jeremiah. This is what you're looking for. Oh my goodness.

01:11:14

Just chasing cloud. Jake, I had no idea who Aaron Gallagher was until he came after me, right?

01:11:20

So he called Coltish. He was like, call me up. He was like, I wanna talk.

01:11:25

I want us to do it on YouTube. I'm like, all right, whatever, I don't care. And he's like, when do you wanna do it? I'm like, we can do it today, tomorrow.

01:11:31

When do you wanna do it? He's like, well, do you wanna know what I'm gonna say? I'm like, I could care less. I know what you're gonna say, right? Like, no,

01:11:36

I don't have to prepare for this. So I didn't even know who the dude was. No idea. So I promise you, if it's clout that we're looking for, we know a lot more bigger names than this dude that many people know.

01:11:49

It's not about clout, bro. So with that being said, these are just some debate options if a believer can lose their sanctification,

01:12:01

I would negate that. But if I was going to affirm a proposition, God will complete sanctification in a justified, regenerate believer because he can't fail.

01:12:11

So this is kind of a debate about eternal security. And so with that being said, let's see here.

01:12:18

Cause like I said, this is really key information for Gallagher to know what potentially might could happen.

01:12:26

Let's see here. Got this. And the next on the list is, this is in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

01:12:32

So we got some time. We got some time because this - Where is Tullahoma? It's a pretty small town.

01:12:38

That's where the conference was last year. I'm pretty sure it's in the same vicinity. I think we're gonna be upgrading a few things.

01:12:46

So hopefully, I know from the first conference to the second conference this past February, I mean, it was 60 % bigger.

01:12:53

And so every year, we're just trying to do better on recruiting, do better advertising.

01:12:59

And so that's why we're really wanting to line up a debate. And actually - So it's right in the middle of Chattanooga and Nashville.

01:13:06

Yep. Is it between Chattanooga and NashVegas? NashVegas, baby.

01:13:12

All right, cool. Now this is important, Trey. So we'll see if you're right or not.

01:13:18

Jack Daniel's Distillery is there. I'm going. I'm going. I'm gonna come out. To Jack Daniel's Distillery, that'd be so cool.

01:13:26

I do wanna say this real fast, that Gallagher, we need to have an answer in about two weeks or so.

01:13:34

Because in all fairness, you may have something planned already during that time. But hopefully, this is far enough in advance that you can look at your schedule and see if this is something you wanna pursue.

01:13:44

And honestly, if it's not gonna work for whatever reason, it's all good. And I'll go next in the line, in the lineup.

01:13:51

Like I said, we kinda need an answer in about two weeks or so because we gotta plan this thing out. And we gotta let everybody know.

01:13:58

But Trey, I'm so looking forward to doing a moderated, in -person debate where I have to travel.

01:14:04

I'm gonna actually, this is gonna be cool, Trey. This is where I hope you are able to come too. But I'm gonna set up a booth and I'm gonna have two microphones.

01:14:12

And through the whole conference, I'm gonna interview people. Nice. So it's in February 22nd.

01:14:19

And what's this two weeks? This is when you need to know something in two weeks? Yeah, we need a answer from Mr.

01:14:25

Gallagher within about two weeks, just because we really do gotta get the show on the road and start planning. And so I hope

01:14:30

Gallagher's able to do it. I think it would be a fun, interesting debate. I think there'd be a lot of people interested and are talking about sanctification.

01:14:40

Can a believer lose it? Not just lose it. You know what I mean? Not just lose it, but actually like lose it.

01:14:47

Well, I think what you're gonna see is, I'm gonna go ahead and call it, I'll say about a week or a week and a half. Aaron will probably make his own video and tell everybody why he is just not able to do it.

01:14:59

But he really wants to, but he's just not able to do it. I remember on one of the podcasts

01:15:05

I did with him, that I told him that you wanted to debate him and you would come to his church and do it or his

01:15:11

GBN or his church. I think I told him his church. And that was a no -go.

01:15:16

And so I think you'll see him come out with a video in about a week or maybe a week and a half and tell everybody why he's not gonna be able to do it.

01:15:26

But he really wants to, but he's just not gonna be able to. That's my prediction. And I'm not a prophet, so I don't know.

01:15:34

So if it does happen in a week or a week and a half, I'm just, I'm guessing here. Oh gosh.

01:15:43

Oh, okay. Duck Dynasty guys, ain't it? Okay. All right now. Jake Hysall said,

01:15:49

I'm talking about a preacher or a teacher. Duck Dynasty guys, ain't it?

01:15:55

That coffee ran right through me. What? So Jake Hysall says he wants you to do a preacher or a teacher.

01:16:04

And look, those Duck Dynasty guys are my old friends and one of them's still one of my best friends. I don't think

01:16:10

Jake knows that you actually know the Duck Dynasty crew really well. I still love them to death.

01:16:16

Love them to death. And Jeff is still one of my best friends. They're actually in Florida right now.

01:16:23

Him and Jay's playing golf. Must be nice. Anybody else out there in the comments?

01:16:36

We'll stay on for another five, 10 minutes if we wanna answer some questions. So if you ask a question that we didn't get a chance to address, repost it.

01:16:45

But I'm excited, Trey. While people, maybe if they have some questions for us. And Jake, you gotta just understand, man.

01:16:51

This is a good opportunity. Hopefully Gallagher will do it. I'm really looking forward to this.

01:16:57

And so encourage, once again, I just want people to see this information. Encourage Gallagher. Hopefully this is enough time in advance for him to consider it.

01:17:06

It's gonna be in Tennessee. It's gonna be February 22nd, 2025. And it's a debate on basically eternal security if believers can lose their salvation.

01:17:15

Trey, I would love it, man. You've given him enough time to make a video to tell everybody why he's not gonna be able to do it.

01:17:22

That's what you've done. Trey, don't say such things. I think it'd be great. Listen, look, here's the deal.

01:17:28

If he is very confident in what he believes and he believes what he believes to be true and he really does believe it and he feels confident about defending that the

01:17:37

Holy Spirit does not indwell us in sanctification as just a bunch of white knuckling it, then

01:17:42

I think he should do it. And would you allow them to broadcast it on GBN for him and his viewers?

01:17:50

So this debate will be on open -air theology. This won't be coming from the apologetic dog.

01:17:56

And so all the rights go to him. Do you think they'd let him take it after, like let open -air do it, and then let him post it on GBN?

01:18:05

Here's the thing. I'm gonna say maybe because I know when Jason Barretta debated

01:18:10

Dr. White, in their agreement, he allowed him to do that. So I don't know if that's the same game plan, but like if Gallagher messaged me and said, hey, yeah, let's continue this conversation.

01:18:19

We got two weeks to kind of make up our mind whether there's some more logistics. What I'll do is include him in a group message with Jeffrey Rice and maybe

01:18:27

Jeffrey will be able to answer more questions. So that call is totally for Jeffrey, but it is possible because I know that he essentially let

01:18:34

Jason Barretta do that this past February. I don't know if Orange actually answered your question earlier, but he said,

01:18:45

Jeremiah, you and Trey should have a live discussion on full preterism if Trey wants some answers.

01:18:52

So we did. So here's the deal. Just say it, just say it, Orange. Like if you believe it, say it, man.

01:18:59

This is the thing with me. I will tell you what I believe. I have no qualms about it. Listen, I believe in predestination.

01:19:05

I believe in election. I believe in the doctrines of grace. I believe in the power of God. I believe that Christ actually wins here on earth and that he inherits the nations.

01:19:13

I believe, man, I believe that we have original sin.

01:19:19

We're born in guilt and shame. I believe that we're spiritually dead and blinded. I believe that it takes the Holy Spirit to give life.

01:19:25

The flesh is no help at all. That God gets all the glory. I believe all that stuff, right? Just say it. Just say, look,

01:19:30

I believe. If you're a full preterist, just say it. I just would love to hear you actually say it. I mean, we can debate it.

01:19:37

I don't care. We can debate it later, me and you, Orange Okie. But I just want you to say it first. I'm not gonna debate somebody that I don't even know what they believe.

01:19:44

Orange Okie, you want some debate sauce? Because we can set that up. I just, Trey, I actually hosted my second full preterist debate.

01:19:53

It's been a few weeks ago. But if Orange wants some of that debate sauce, we can definitely make that happen.

01:20:01

He needs to get on it because I don't put any prep time on my debate. I just say, open the book up and let's go. And by the way, me and the apologetic dog have a two -on -two debate coming up with two

01:20:11

Church of Christ preachers. When was that? June, July, I don't know, August.

01:20:16

August, end of August or something. Isn't that right? What are you talking about? Our debate we have coming up.

01:20:24

Me and you versus two Church of Christ preachers. Shh. Oh, we haven't told anybody. No, no, no,

01:20:29

I'm just kidding. Hey, we got something cooking, don't we? Well, the good thing is,

01:20:34

I will put no debate prep time into this. I'll just like tell you when the time starts, I'll show up.

01:20:40

I'll be in the dungeon, man. I got you. Are you kidding me? I'm so tired of this. You have no idea how bad this is in my name.

01:20:47

The only thing that keeps me going is when people reach out and say, I'm leaving the Church of Christ. And I'm like, okay, we'll keep going.

01:20:55

Thank you, God, praise God. But that's it. I mean, that's the fuel that keeps the train going.

01:21:04

Here's a good question from an unapologetic cat, my arch nemesis, but we live on the same farm.

01:21:12

He's a mod, but I just wanna say he's a self -appointed mod with that wrench, so I appreciate that. But he asked a good question for both of us.

01:21:20

And so I've been thinking on this. If you, Trey, could debate anyone, who would it be? Don't cop out and say

01:21:26

Aaron. Hmm, I'm just like, as far as like debate, or like just have a conversation and talk to about, that's how

01:21:35

I view these things. Debate, Trey. Debate. I don't sit around thinking about debating like Jeremiah.

01:21:41

Let's see here. Jeremiah, you go first, and then I'll try to think. This is a hard question because he didn't specify,

01:21:50

I'm guessing that an unapologetic cat is a he, but he didn't say dead or alive.

01:21:56

I've always thought the apologetic cat was a dog. I always thought it was a girl.

01:22:03

Oh, maybe. If I was a dude, I would not consider myself a cat. If I was a dude, I would say

01:22:09

I'm an unapologetic tiger or something, you know what I'm saying? Like not a cat. Pussy cat. Oh, hey, this is, as I take my time answering this question, someone asked, this is for you,

01:22:20

Trey. I'm actually be curious to hear your answer. Is Trey a Jeff Durbin post -millennial?

01:22:28

I don't even know what that even means. We love the Durbs. But I did have a little text back and forth with the

01:22:34

Durb yesterday or the day before yesterday. And he said he's gonna do something. He wants some more quick hands? Well, he said he's gonna do something.

01:22:42

I said, look, don't you forget, fishbone doesn't get even, he gets a head. And I didn't hear anything back from him after that.

01:22:49

So, yeah, I don't know what you mean by a Jeff Durbin post -millennial. But I'm a post -millennial, yes.

01:22:57

I will say y 'all have some differing views within post -millennialism, but that's okay. Because we're on the right aisle of orthodoxy, not out in full preterist world.

01:23:06

Right. So, what was the question about who I would debate? I guess I would debate Jeff on post -millennial, my view versus his view.

01:23:12

Whoa, that's. No. That's good. I would say, I don't know,

01:23:21

I think it'd be Conor McGregor. That's.

01:23:27

Isn't that. I love him. Isn't that your favorite heathen? I love him. I mean, here's my thing, if you're gonna be a heathen, heathens are gonna heath, you know what

01:23:34

I'm saying? So, if you're gonna be one, be one, right? I respect people who are bold with what they believe.

01:23:40

I really do. I respect a Mormon who's like all in, because they really believe it.

01:23:46

I respect a Church of Christ who's all in, who will actually just come out and say it. Like this dude who wrote this book right here, the turtle book.

01:23:54

See, the turtle book. Yep. Right here. Who says, look, is works necessary for salvation?

01:24:02

Yes. Thank you. That's all I'm looking for. Let's just be honest, and let's just say what we actually believe, and let's not play word games with people, right?

01:24:11

So, I do respect people who actually are bold with, and I think

01:24:16

Conor McGregor is so bold, he does not believe in absolutely nothing. He loves himself, and heathens are gonna heath.

01:24:23

So, I'd like to debate Conor McGregor on just that there is a

01:24:30

God, and Jesus Christ is Lord, and tell him to repent. I like the answer. And bow his knee to King Jesus.

01:24:37

Also, Trey, what's the name of your channel? Michelle is wanting to know.

01:24:42

She's been an awesome supporter of the Apologetic Dog. What's that?

01:24:47

What happened? Michelle what? What's the name of your channel where she can find more videos? Hey, Michelle, thanks for asking.

01:24:53

It's called The Parish Reformed. The Parish Reformed. Look at Orange Okie.

01:24:58

He says, Trey doesn't want to actually talk about it, meaningful preterism. He wants me to answer a question that he doesn't even understand.

01:25:07

The funny thing is, this is what they get mad at Calvinists, because when a Calvinist says, you just don't understand

01:25:12

Reformed theology, they're like throwing a hissy fit, right? They throw an absolute hissy fit, because they really do not, they really don't.

01:25:20

No, I understand full preterism. Like, you believe everything happened in 70 AD. You believe the second coming has happened in 70

01:25:27

AD, that Christ is not coming back. There's no resurrection of the body. That this is, we're, hey, welcome to heaven, everybody.

01:25:33

According to Orange Okie, you made it. It's ridiculous. So anyway, he just doesn't want to say it.

01:25:41

I wouldn't want to say it. Orange Okie, I wouldn't want to put it down either. I wouldn't want to just, if I believe crazy stuff like that,

01:25:47

I wouldn't tell anybody either, so. I've not decided on who

01:25:53

I would debate. A part of me would want just an awesome debate with James White.

01:25:59

I think the only thing that I might have - What are you gonna debate Dr. Dubb on?

01:26:06

Eschatology, of course. You would get slapped up around the room.

01:26:13

You would get mopped up. You would get - Betrayed, it would be fun. Here's Amil.

01:26:19

Amil's this. Like, what do you believe about eschatology, Amil? Ah. Ah. Like, that's

01:26:29

Amil. I don't know. Jesus is gonna come back, and it's just gonna kind of keep going down.

01:26:35

He asked who I would debate, not that if I could win or not, but I think that would be an honor to, well, see,

01:26:41

I was gonna say James White, or if he was talking about someone dead or alive, Greg Bonson.

01:26:47

I mean, he is a master, and Post Mill. You really think you could handle

01:26:53

Bonson? I didn't say I'd do good. Oh, you would get mauled.

01:26:59

The dog would be mauled. It would have to be on eschatology. It couldn't be on transcendental reasoning, or,

01:27:07

I mean, I agree with Bonson on most of it. What about Theonomy? Would you debate it with Theonomy? Yeah, Theonomy, Post Mill.

01:27:14

Oh, how about Greg Bonson on infant baptism? I think I could maybe get into a covenant theology debate.

01:27:21

We could do that. I would feel comfortable debating Bonson on infant baptism. So that was a good question.

01:27:28

Thank you for that, unapologetic cat. So here's a good question, too, Trey, I'd like for you to speak to. Do you believe a member of the

01:27:35

Church of Christ can go to heaven? I believe a member of the

01:27:41

Church of Christ can go to heaven if they don't believe the teachings of the Church of Christ. But I don't know why, it's kind of a hard question because I think that if they come to the understanding that this is horrible theology and bad doctrine, then they're gonna get out of it, right?

01:27:57

They might realize it and then die, you know? But I do believe that there are people in the Church of Christ who have died and they're gonna be in heaven in the

01:28:05

Church of Christ, but they just carried such a heavy load of works on their shoulders. Things did not make sense to them biblically.

01:28:11

For whatever reason, they died in the Church of Christ. I believe that they would go to heaven.

01:28:16

I believe that if their faith was in Christ Jesus and their faith alone in Christ alone, yeah. So again,

01:28:22

I wanna be very clear, I don't believe that doctrine, I think that you have to have some fundamental doctrines that you have to understand, right?

01:28:29

Our faith is built on knowledge. Romans 10 says that my heart's desire is for the Israelites that they may be saved, for they have a zeal for God, but it's not based on knowledge.

01:28:37

So our salvation is based on knowledge, okay? So there has to be a basis of knowledge.

01:28:43

Now, to what point, right? You have to know who Christ is and what he's done, but I think there are people in the

01:28:49

Church of Christ who've been taught horrible things. And I wanna say this very clearly. Many people who get even baptized into the

01:28:57

Church of Christ or by the Church of Christ, like somebody in the Church of Christ baptizes them, okay?

01:29:04

There's many people who get baptized not because they think that the water is saving them at that moment, they don't believe that.

01:29:11

They're doing it because they truly are convicted in the heart, because they heard the word of God, because it's the power of God is in the gospel message.

01:29:17

It's not in the messenger, right? So the power is not in the messenger, it's in the gospel itself. That's Romans 1 16.

01:29:24

So when they hear this story, this good news of what Christ did, it doesn't matter if a heretic told them that good news or not.

01:29:30

It's the powers in the message, not the messenger. And so people's hearts truly are changed. And they hear, hey, look, you need to get baptized to wash your sins away.

01:29:38

And they do it and they really don't think, oh, my sins are washing away down the river. And because I did this, they're not going through that process of the church of Christ teaching and their doctrines.

01:29:46

They really are doing it because they just want to be obedient to God and like, okay, I'll get baptized, right?

01:29:51

And then years later, they come to understand that, oh my goodness, they're really teaching that people get their sins because they, oh no, that's not right.

01:30:01

And they might be in there for a while and not understand that, but they know that something's not setting right. So yeah, I think there are

01:30:06

Christians in the church of Christ. I think those who really think about it and who are willing to actually pay the price because they realize there's gonna be a price to pay to leave the church of Christ, right?

01:30:16

Believe me, I have a church full of people and we have a church of Christ exiles page full of hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of people who have paid that price of leaving the church of Christ because you will be ostracized, right?

01:30:29

Aaron Gallagher has friends who've left the church of Christ from our talks and their fear was being ostracized.

01:30:36

So yes, I believe there are people in church Christ. I do believe the majority of them will come out and get good pasture and find good theology and understand what

01:30:43

Christ has truly done for them. Is that every single one of them? No. Would you love to see Trey tangle up with old

01:30:49

Johnny Robertson? Well, conversations with Christians, actually we try to do that. I have about 50 emails with Johnny Robertson.

01:30:58

Cultish offered to fly him out to Arizona and do a moderated debate with me and Johnny Robertson a few years ago and he denied it.

01:31:09

We're gonna put him up in a hotel, fly him out there and he denied doing that. I got about 50 emails with him.

01:31:14

So would you love to see, would love to see, well, you missed that opportunity because we offered it to him and he said no.

01:31:24

But I think T .T. and Johnny Robertson would get along. Have you ever seen Johnny Robertson?

01:31:32

Jeremy, have you ever seen him? I think I've seen a few of his clips before. Boy, he is something else. He's an interesting fellow.

01:31:37

Yeah, he's very. Well, Fishbone, thanks so much for coming on to The Apologetic Dog.

01:31:44

We got some content upcoming in the future. So I'm looking forward to going through the turtle book with you.

01:31:51

Oh, it's gonna be fun, fun, fun. Yeah, so the turtle book, we'll start doing that next.

01:31:57

Okay, chapter by chapter. Remember, we talked to an attorney. What's it called?

01:32:03

We have a, where we can break down a book. Right. What is it called?

01:32:11

It is, it basically says that we're, yeah. I went blank too, but it gives permission, fair use.

01:32:20

There we go. Fair use, fair use. Yeah, we have fair use. And so we can break it down. We can't show every word to it, but man,

01:32:26

I would love to. But we'll break it down pretty good. And tell you, and show it to you.

01:32:32

But anyway, hey, thanks for having me on here, Bob. I think it was fun. I think you're gonna be disappointed, but you're gonna have to find somebody else.

01:32:39

I don't think so. Do Jake, do Jake. Jake Paisle, do it. That'd be fun, maybe one of these days.

01:32:46

You do father and son. Carl says, it just seems like you're debating inexperienced debaters.

01:32:51

Why not experienced debaters of the Church of Christ? So this is where that's unfortunate. Oh, hey, bring in the pup.

01:32:59

Hey, I want to introduce everybody. The apologetic pups in the house. This is the apologetic puppy.

01:33:09

He's not feeling too good. Can you say, shoot that ball? Shoot that ball.

01:33:16

Ooh, I don't think he said shoot the ball. I think he said a dirty word. We're working on that. Hopefully YouTube doesn't find it.

01:33:21

I think he said a dirty word. Shoot it is getting combined there.

01:33:29

All right, all right. So it was fun. Yes, oh, there's Michelle. Michelle Cherry said, fair use.

01:33:34

Thank you, Michelle. It took us forever to think of that. I wish I'd have seen that earlier. All right, so yeah,

01:33:41

I hope nobody loses their sanctification. Until next time, keep it tight.

01:33:48

See you, Fishbone. Thanks again, man. See you, bro. Bye. Bye -bye. All right, well, thank you all for joining the apologetic dog, where it's getting a little, we got a lot going on on this side of the camera, so I will have to sign off here.

01:34:01

Thank you again for supporting the channel. Please like, subscribe, and share, and smash that like button. And so until next time, here's some

01:34:09

Grandma's Church. So again, one body, which is the body, his body, which is his church, the church of Christ.

01:34:17

I mean, man, if you just had some little bit of common sense, you'd think he drove by these denominations where it says Grandma's Church, Baptist Church, Methodist Church, Life Church.

01:34:27

I mean, he drove an hour and 20 minutes here, and they act like they give God the glory in Jesus' name.

01:34:33

Grandma's Church, Baptist Church, Presbyterian Church, Church of Christ. Same thing, again, they deny redemption.