Does BAPTISM now save us? PT.1 w/@theparishreformed @AaronGallagherTV

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April 26, 2024

Christ Rescued Me! ....from the "CoC" The God Who Justifies by James White https://amzn.to/3vUt1pC https://amzn.to/3NmJNUV =============================== Church of Christ Exiles This is a Facebook Group meant for people coming out of the Restoration Movement that are seeking community and help with receiving the Gospel of Grace. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1558657601255622

00:24: All right, all right, all right. About to go live right here. I guess we are going live. We're going to be reviewing a little review that took a little bit, but we're going to do it with the dog.
00:35: You ready for the dog? There he is. Well, hello. Fishbone, it don't mean that.
00:42: We're back. It don't mean that, it don't mean that. So are you ready to do a review of the review?
00:49: I was so ready that I thought it was time I trimmed my beard for it. Dude, you got a baby beard now. I know,
00:55: I got a baby beard. I just got to hit the reset on it. You know, like, you know, baptism washes away your past sins. You need that reset button.
01:00: You got to get re -bearded. So what did you think about Aaron's eight hour review?
01:10: Eight hours, dude. He holed up in an office for eight hours, dude. I hope it's time he was on vacation.
01:18: That's a whole work shift. I thought, you know, on one hand, Trey, I could see myself doing an eight hour work shift reviewing a debate.
01:28: I think I would love that actually. Would you? You probably would. Yeah. You would. I'd lock myself in that dungeon.
01:34: I was driving back from Baton Rouge and I saw it and I started laughing when
01:40: I saw eight hours. And so I was just fast forwarding to what, you know, what he said and I was like, okay, yeah, we're going to have to review this because it's not good.
01:50: Some things that were said. So I did want everybody to know that I did invite him to be on this right here with us.
01:59: I sent him an email. I know we were doing it. Asked if he would want to join us so he could defend anything we said and no response.
02:09: So I did my due diligence. Maybe he'll do a review of our review of his debate review of my debate.
02:15: It'll be 16 hours. I don't know why he's scared to debate you though. We'll talk about that later.
02:22: Are you willing to do it? Of course I would be. Of course you would be. I think it'd be great.
02:28: I would do any format under the sun that he wants. We'll get you on Cultish.
02:34: Get both of y 'all on Cultish to do it. Trey, we should have Jerry and Andrew moderate a live in -person debate for a
02:44: Cultish episode with a debate with me and Gallagher. I think maybe he would do that.
02:49: I think he would love it. Yeah, I'll talk more about my discussions with him later when he mentions me in the debate or in his review of the debate.
02:59: So we got some people watching. Jump in there on the interview, the chat deal. And if you have any questions as we go, put a cue beside your message and we'll bring it up on the screen.
03:10: We'll try to answer whatever questions you may have. So you ready to jump right into it? You want to say anything else before we jump into this?
03:17: Yeah, a couple things. Shout out to Leanne Ferguson. Just all her support. All of her labors for the kingdom of just trying to bring clarity on the gospel of grace.
03:27: Shout out to - The turtles. The turtle book. The turtle club. We're going to be doing a little book review of that one pretty soon.
03:36: Because again, I've reached out to him and others there and just said, look, I want to ask questions. I said,
03:41: I don't even want to tell you what I think. Don't want to argue. I just simply want to ask questions of some very apparent contradictions in this thing.
03:50: Just to, I said, look, anybody can be there. I don't care. Just want to ask questions and that's it.
03:56: But got nothing. So we'll review it. So you ready to go into this? Before we dive in,
04:03: I want to also just tell people, I listened carefully to a lot of things that Aaron said in his review.
04:09: And one thing, kind, I want to say is he was not afraid to tell people where he disagreed with Mike Hysall.
04:15: He disagrees on Mark 16, 16. He disagrees with the core understanding of Acts 2, 38 about what it means to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
04:25: And so what this showed me was there is so much diversity amongst the church of Christ and their proof texts and their theology at large.
04:36: However, what binds them together is that they believe your past sins are washed away in the watery graves of baptism.
04:44: So I want to let everybody know, no matter which sect of the church of Christ you fall under, if you believe that core tenet, then that is a gospel that cannot saved.
04:55: And if you tell me, well, I disagree with them on, I believe in salvation by faith alone. Then I'm gonna tell you, then you're not church of Christ.
05:03: Right. And that when I don't, I did the cultures thing. That's why I just stayed on. They believe you're born perfect. The vast majority of them.
05:10: I've not met one that doesn't, but. So anyway, born perfect. And then you have to be baptized to be saved and you can lose your salvation.
05:17: That was the points. But so baptismal regeneration, which he says is he doesn't believe in baptismal regeneration, but that's another point that Mike Isall does believe in.
05:26: And Mike Isall said that you don't necessarily have to be baptized because if you intended to get baptized and died, then you could be saved, which
05:36: Aaron will show that clip. He gives about a 20 minute, you know, word judo scripture salad, where you almost forget what the question was because it took him so long to answer it to him to say, you're going to hell, no matter what.
05:50: When y 'all had a debate, more of a discussion, he didn't like that y 'all's exchange was timed back and forth, did he?
05:56: Well, no. And he had, I got emails anyway, with him,
06:04: I should make public, should just throw them out there. But in emails, he wanted to have 10 minute answers.
06:12: And I'm like, dude, 10 minute answers, if you, two minutes? And he's like, no, five minutes.
06:17: I'm like, man, if you can't give an answer in two minutes, like you need to find another answer. But this is why they have to have so much time so they can just like start picking and pulling scripture everywhere, just jumble it all up and everything, get everybody confused.
06:30: And that's why they have to have so much time to give their answers because it's just scripture judo.
06:37: All right, let's go. Let's see here. First of all, let's talk about this one right here where you have to be consistent,
06:43: Jeremiah. You were not consistent. Okay? And he's gonna bring up 2 Kings 5,
06:49: Naaman had a discussion with some, a church Christ guy. And he's bringing up 2
06:57: Kings 5. And I said, I wouldn't bring up 2 Kings 5 if I were you. I mean, I know you do, but I wouldn't. It's not a good one.
07:03: He's all, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. And then like 30 minutes later, he goes to try to use it. Cause they did this.
07:08: There's only so many spots you can go to, but you know, this is one that Aaron goes to to try to prove baptismal regeneration.
07:17: And we're gonna show you why it's a bad move. So here we go. Let's see what he says here. Hey, whatever this phrase means in Matthew 26, 28, you should be consistent.
07:26: And it should mean the same thing in Acts 2 38. So did Jesus Christ shed his blood because sins are forgiven already?
07:31: No. Acts 2 38, were they repenting and being baptized because sins have been forgiven already?
07:37: No. So that's the argument some people make. Anyway, so that's, that's one thing
07:43: I like. I really liked when Mike said this, he worded it this way. Physical water cannot wash away spiritual guilt.
07:50: There is a teaching called baptismal regeneration that unfortunately people throw around that phrase nowadays, not realizing historically what that meant.
07:59: For instance, like in Charles Spurgeon in the 1600s, he was a Baptist preacher in London at the maybe
08:05: Metropolitan Tabernacle. I don't remember, but he was like the most famous.
08:10: Some people call him the Prince of Baptist preachers, right? He's the most famous Baptist preacher probably ever. And he was talking about baptismal regeneration in one of his sermons.
08:19: And he talked about how the church of England, I think it was, was the only one that taught it. So back then, what they meant by that is they meant that water without faith would regenerate.
08:29: So like baptismal regeneration, who really teaches that is like Catholics or I believe maybe
08:34: Lutherans where they say, hey, you dip a baby in water and that water, because it's holy,
08:42: God will forgive the sins, right? Not the water's holy, but they still think, teach that God forgives the sins when they're baptized.
08:48: But that's not what we teach. So when someone says, Aaron, you teach baptismal regeneration, I'm like, well, I know what you mean by that, but don't conflate that with what baptismal regeneration is historically, right?
09:00: Yeah, I got to stop there. I got to stop it there and let's just, I mean, here's the deal.
09:09: Here's the deal. Like, here's the thing. It's this whole idea, and this is what's so sad.
09:16: So many people just trust people. They trust them, whatever they say. Like there's so many people who watch
09:21: Aaron Gallagher that just trust him, right? For instance, we did a video on talking about what it means to obey the gospel, hypekuo, what that Greek word means.
09:30: They did a video. They did a video saying how I was stupid, lying, didn't know what
09:35: I was talking about, didn't know what lexicon I got that from. So we brought up about 17 lexicons, proving that it's a heart thing.
09:43: It's looking at the gospel of Jesus Christ and being in awe with it and taking it to the heart.
09:49: Showed all the definitions in every lexicon and just showed that they were lying.
09:55: Absolutely lying, you know? And thank God someone called me up about a month ago and watched that so they had to watch it twice and now they're gone just simply from seeing that.
10:05: Like that was just a mind blower to them. But here's this one right here that baptismal regeneration is talking about just the water, washing away original sin and babies, stuff like that.
10:19: So here we go. Let's just see what it is. Baptismal regeneration. Here's the glossary of theology right here.
10:26: Baptismal regeneration, the idea that baptism is the means by which original sin is washed away. That is water baptism is how the
10:32: Holy Spirit performs the regeneration of the believer, right? Would he say that he agrees with that, that at baptism, that's when the
10:42: Holy Spirit performs regeneration of the believer? Yes. So it's a necessary part of salvation. Would he say that that's a necessary part of salvation?
10:49: Yes. Here's another one. Baptismal regeneration. According to the Church of Rome, regeneration includes not only spiritual renewal.
10:58: He would agree with that. Also justification or the forgiveness of sins and is affected by means of baptism.
11:05: Now that's what your whole debate was about, right? Your whole debate was about that. So yes, he would agree with that.
11:12: Here is, let's see here. Roman Catholics, advocates of baptismal regeneration.
11:20: Roman Catholic Church teaches, teaches it describing baptism as the lever of regeneration at the
11:25: Council of Trent. It anathematizes who disagree. So if you disagree, you're going to hell.
11:32: If anyone saith that baptism is free, that is not necessary unto salvation, let him be anathema.
11:40: Now Jeremiah, doesn't he think that we're anathema because we don't believe that? Yeah. Yeah.
11:47: Same thing with Eastern Orthodox. We'll go here. Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Baptist Methodists, Low Church Episcopalians, differ from that of the
11:57: Roman and the Greek churches and the High Church of Anglicans in its rejection of the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of regeneration and that the grace of regeneration is effectually conveyed through the administration of the right wherever duly performed.
12:11: That's exactly what, that's what baptismal regeneration is. So as much as he wants to say that's not what it is, that's what it is.
12:20: Do you agree? You want to say anything before we go back into this, before he goes into 2 Kings chapter five? You want it?
12:26: Yeah. Yeah, people mean different things by baptismal regeneration, but the question you have to ask that you brought out is, all right,
12:36: Gallagher, all right, Hysol, when is a person regenerated? Is it about faith or is it at another point in time?
12:43: Oh, you're regenerated in the watery graves of baptism. Guess what? That's baptismal regeneration.
12:49: Sure, so this is the weird quandary that they're in. Yeah, they believe in baptismal regeneration differently than the
12:56: Anglicans, the Lutherans, and the Roman Catholic and the Greek Orthodox. Yes, but you still believe in baptismal regeneration.
13:05: Lutherans, Catholics, a lot will say, well, yeah, you got to baptize infants because in baptism, it washes away original sin.
13:13: Guess what? Church of Christ, they don't mean that. They don't believe in original sin. Right, so to me, it's like a waving of the hand for Gallagher to say, well, we don't really believe in baptismal regeneration historically.
13:26: Well, you believe that you're regenerated in baptism. You all just reject infant baptism and you don't, they didn't get to say, well, then our baptismal, we don't get to say we believe in baptismal regeneration because we don't baptize infants.
13:41: No, you believe adults, believers, or those that confess Christ, they get regenerated in baptism.
13:49: So to me, this is a weird point. This is why Mike Hysall openly says, of course we believe in baptismal regeneration.
13:55: They had a debate review recently, actually really enjoyed a lot of the input that they said reflecting on our debate.
14:03: And when Hysall was taking me to town on BDAG, which I hope we talk about this a little bit, because I don't know,
14:09: Trey, if you've been looking on Facebook, we have a lot of questions out there. And I've been letting people know, I've been seeing them.
14:15: And to me, they crack me up. But when they're doing their debate review and they were talking about, we're getting into, oh,
14:26: Lutherans understand that the grace of justification happens in baptism. Number one, I don't think they do, actually.
14:32: They'd be more on our side when they say justification is by faith alone. But every time in the debate where I would tell
14:38: Mike and regeneration and regeneration, his debate review was, he said, of course,
14:44: Jeremiah's acting like he's teaching me something. And of course we believe that you're regenerated in baptism. And that wasn't what
14:51: I was doing. I was just saying like, there's a full picture that I agree Mike and Lutherans are very similar.
14:58: That regeneration happens in baptism. So this is just a point of inconsistency.
15:04: Now here's, Trey, I think why there's an inconsistency with Mike and Gallagher is because Gallagher is a far right wing church of Christ, which is more restorationist.
15:18: The further you go back, like they're all gonna sound the same, make similar, Campbellite. Now, Mike Hysaw, he's a right moderate leaning.
15:27: So he doesn't make the same kind of arguments that Gallagher makes. And this is just to demonstrate to people, they're all not the same.
15:35: The core tenants are there, but there's a lot of disagreements amongst the CFC. Like the
15:40: Mark 16, 16, the hard ones want it because it says that baptism, whoever believes in is baptized will be saved.
15:47: But again, they don't even really believe that. Had a guy reaching out to me this week from a local congregation.
15:54: He kept sending me all these memes. And I messaged him. I said, look, hey, if you wanna meet and talk about the scriptures,
16:02: I would love to do that, but don't send me memes. I don't get my theology from memes. So if you wanna sit and talk,
16:08: I would be more than happy to sit. I'll meet you anywhere. So he just kept sending me all these memes about how do you got to get baptized, be saved.
16:14: And so finally he sent me Mark 16, 16. He said, you don't believe Mark 16, 16. I said, actually I do.
16:20: You don't, you know? I said, cause it says whoever believes in is baptized will be saved. So you don't believe that.
16:25: You believe whoever believes in is baptized might be saved, could be saved, has the opportunity to be saved, but not will be saved, right?
16:33: Because you believe they could lose their salvation. So you really don't believe it. So let's just go back to his deal about being consistent.
16:39: He's about to bring up second Kings chapter five. Let's see what you think. Right. So the reason I think that's important to mention is
16:44: Mike said, let me get it. He said, physical water cannot wash away spiritual guilt. That's what we believe that the
16:50: New Testament teaches. It's also historically what all the early church writers, the apostolic and anti -Nicene fathers taught, but that's a different point for a different day.
17:00: So physical water doesn't wash away spiritual guilt, but a good analogy is in the
17:06: Old Testament, second Kings five, a man named Naaman has leprosy and Naaman wants his leprosy cleansed.
17:11: So what does he do? He goes to a prophet and the prophet basically gives him the instruction to dip in the Jordan seven times.
17:18: And he says, I don't want to dip in the Jordan. I want to dip in these nice clean rivers in Damascus. And then his servant girl's like, just do what he says.
17:25: So Naaman goes and dips in the Jordan seven times and his leprosy is miraculously healed.
17:31: Now, if you could take a time machine back and say, Naaman, what healed your leprosy? Was it God or the water?
17:37: He would obviously say God did it. But when did God do it? He did it whenever you obeyed the command, the.
17:44: I remember this. It had nothing to do with his faith. It had nothing to do with his faith. It had everything about his action, him doing.
17:52: Now he would say, of course, God did it. God healed me, of course. But when, when you did, when you obeyed, had nothing to do with faith.
18:01: So he wants to act like you do have to have faith, but you really don't. But we'll talk more about that in a minute.
18:08: So Naaman, I'm just gonna back up just a hair bit so you can go back and hear that again. Times and his leprosy is miraculously healed.
18:16: Now, if you could take a time machine back and say, Naaman, what healed your leprosy? Was it God or the water?
18:21: He would obviously say God did it. But when did God do it? He did it whenever you obeyed the command, the promise, you got the promise blessing.
18:30: So Naaman, dip in the water seven times and what's gonna happen? Your physical infirmity, leprosy will be cleansed.
18:38: Did the water do it? No, otherwise there'd be leper colonies all over the Jordan River and it maybe it'd be cured to this day, right?
18:43: But it's not. So obviously that's a good analogy and maybe foreshadowing that the biblical writers intended, which is whenever you're dipped or immersed fully,
18:54: I mean, when I mean dipped, I mean, go down to the water, like I dunk my Oreos, not like some people just half immersed.
19:00: Whenever you're buried, immersed, baptized, completely under the water, you're buried under the water.
19:06: That is physical water, but you are being obedient to the promise, the promise blessing you'll receive, which is forgiveness of sin.
19:13: So I liked that Mike said that, right? So when you come up out of the water, if you said to somebody who was baptized like they were in the
19:19: New Testament, what saved you? Did the water save you? You'd say, no, God saved me. Well, when did God save you?
19:25: When you did what he promised, right? There you go. I thought baptism now saves you. Yeah, well, see, here's, and this is the problem.
19:32: Like he said, like this is a perfect picture of the Old Testament, foreshadowing the New Testament baptism. Like he said -
19:39: Baptism doesn't mean baptism. With Naaman, if you ask Naaman who healed, how'd you get healed? He'd say, well, God healed me.
19:44: How? I had nothing to do with faith of believing God. It was all about his obedience.
19:51: So look, here's Naaman, commander of the army of the king of Syria. So he goes down, he has leprosy. He goes to Elisha, the man of God.
19:58: Heard the king of Israel had torn his clothes. So he goes to see Elijah, verse nine. So Naaman came with his horses and chariots and stood at the door of Elisha's house.
20:05: Elisha sent a messenger to him saying, go and wash in the Jordan seven times and your flesh shall be restored and you shall be clean.
20:13: But Naaman went away angry. He was angry and he went away, right? Saying, behold,
20:18: I thought he would surely come out to me and stand and call upon the name of the Lord and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.
20:26: Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel because they hated
20:31: Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean? So he turned away, he went in a rage.
20:37: He didn't believe in God. He didn't believe the promise of God. He did not believe the words of the prophet of God. But he didn't believe any of it.
20:42: He's like, this is ridiculous, this is stupid, I'm out. And he left in a rage.
20:48: But his servants came near and said to him, my father, it is a great word the prophet has spoken to you.
20:54: Will you not do it? Has he actually said to you, wash and be clean? So his servants were like, just do it.
21:00: What's it gonna hurt? I mean, you got leprosy, just do it. What's it gonna hurt? So Naaman didn't go down into the water because he trusted
21:07: God and his word and his promises. That's not why he went in the water. He went in the water to save his own hide.
21:14: So if Aaron wants to say this is their understanding of baptism, I would agree. You're getting into the water to save your own hide.
21:21: And we can look and see how that developed over church history. But this is why a lot of people are doing it.
21:27: Just, hey, if it works, it works. Let's just try it out. So he turned away, went in a rage, so he did it.
21:32: So he dipped himself seven times in the Jordan according to the word of the man of God. His flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child and was clean.
21:40: So don't think you want to use Naaman. There was absolutely no faith, no trust in God in that whole situation.
21:46: Go ahead, Jeremiah. Okay, so we gotta be careful when you appeal to type and shadow and substance in the
21:54: Old Testament about what can we extrapolate and learn? How can we discern what is written for our learning and to apply to us today?
22:03: Number one, I would say it's different in saying there's ceremonial rituals, whether it be in Leviticus or Numbers or in the
22:13: Torah for people with leprosy and things like that. Okay, there's principles there. And what principles can we glean from Naaman?
22:20: Well, for one, this ceremonial bath, this showing an act of humility did not justify him before God.
22:29: By the way, that's the whole point of my debate with Hysol. So all you can glean from that is, yeah,
22:36: God did say, do a command. Would that be an act of humility? Absolutely.
22:42: Well, putting your faith in the perfect Savior and not trusting in your own works, not trusting in any of the ceremonies you participate in, but putting your trust in Jesus Christ, that is the most humble thing you could possibly do is say,
22:56: I can't add any of my works on the table to make myself right before God.
23:02: So I'm all for taking principles, Trey, but people wanna look at Noah building the ark and say, well, he had to do that or he wouldn't have been saved from the waters of judgment.
23:13: I'm like, that is living faith being active, but that's not what justified him before God.
23:20: And so some of these are just far -reaching. I'm all for it, because when we look at a lot of the faithful in the
23:27: Old Testament, the just shall live by faith. We're gonna talk about this later, but someone who is justified by faith then works out their faith in sanctification.
23:35: That's why, Trey, and you can tell me your thoughts on this, I define six terms in my opening statement, because I've listened to these types of objections over and over and over again.
23:46: What do people like Gallagher assume? Well, obedience always entails your works.
23:52: And they would just say, doing obedience is the works of God, not works of man.
24:00: Okay, well, let's define works. Let's talk about the context in which we see that. What is faith?
24:05: As we're gonna see, Hysal takes a lot of liberty with the word faith, regardless of what the context says.
24:12: You're gonna see Aaron does the same thing. Well, that's the thing. That account of him dipping in the water seven times, about the only thing you can take from that is, yes,
24:25: God requires humility, right? Now, like you said, men can do that to save their own hide.
24:30: We're in a time during the old covenant. You gotta be careful with saying, this is a foreshadowing of X, because Roman Catholics, they actually point to the
24:40: Ark of the Covenant as a type of Mary, right? Because she, in her womb, carried
24:46: Jesus. So she must be holy like the Ark of the Covenant. Why can you Protestants not see that?
24:52: Oh, well, Church of Christ are gonna do that with second Kings, anything to bolster their case.
24:58: Right. So there, we're gonna go to the next one. Define your terms, Jeremiah.
25:04: Because you asked him to define terms. You just kind of hit on it a little bit. But according to Aaron, you did not define your terms.
25:11: So he's gonna define some terms for you. I just wanna know, you're gonna go first on this one. You respond. Let me know if you want me to pause it.
25:17: He talked about Mike's opening and said that Mike didn't define his terms and that Mike just begged the question.
25:24: I gotta say, I've watched a lot of debates, listened to a lot of debates. And I remember in the old debates, what they would say is,
25:31: I'm gonna define terms. They'd say the Bible. And by the Bible, I mean the 66 books that we have.
25:36: Okay, Jeremiah didn't define what Bible he was using. But come on, we all know what he means, right?
25:43: Everyone watching. Okay, so I'm just gonna go ahead and jump the gun on this. No, it is begging the question.
25:50: When you don't ground your case and when you start making some types of assumptions, then the interlocutor, your opponent, is allowed to call you on that.
26:00: Just because if Mike, I'm sure I made a lot of assumptions all over the place, right, the ones that I thought most people would be in agreement with me as I assumed something,
26:10: I don't have to define them. Like I didn't have, so me and Mike, we were assuming that one another knew we were going to be appealing to the 66 books of the
26:19: Protestant canon, right? Did we both assume that? Yes, but we can high five and say, that's fine.
26:25: Now, what Gallagher doesn't realize is depending on the context, meaning who you're interacting with, it is totally legitimate to call someone out on begging the question.
26:36: You cannot assume the 66 books of the Bible if you're debating a
26:42: Roman Catholic. That's a time to make a case. Because you both might be saying, the scripture says this, the scripture says that.
26:48: But they might be quoting from Sirach, like Mike Hysall did. But my point is, depending on who you're talking to, when you're in a debate,
26:58: Reformed Baptist, Church of Christ, talking about baptism, obedience, and faith, guess what you don't get to do,
27:04: Trey? You don't get to beg the question. You gotta prove that one. Well, and here's the reason why. And this is why when
27:09: I'm talking to them, I get them, well, we both do, get them to define terms. What is the definition of faith?
27:14: What is the definition of justification? What is the definition of baptism? What do these words mean? Because here's the deal.
27:21: If we're both talking about faith, right? I'm talking about faith, say Mike's talking about faith, or Aaron's talking about faith, you're talking about faith, we're talking about faith.
27:30: But we know they've changed the definition of faith. They know they've changed the definition of faith.
27:36: But the people who are listening to us talk, they don't know that they've changed the definition of faith.
27:42: And this is why it says this right here. Remind them of these things. This is 2 Timothy 2, 14.
27:48: And charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
27:56: Because see, if the people don't know that somebody in here has changed the definition of words, they're gonna get confused because they're gonna hear the word faith, they're gonna hear the word grace, but they don't know that the terms have not been defined, right?
28:09: So do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
28:15: So that's why you're asking to define terms, but he says you didn't do it either. Let's see what he says.
28:20: You ready? Or you wanna go ahead? What he's gonna do is, he did not like how
28:25: I appealed and grounded faith because it wouldn't be the same way that he would. And to me, you're welcome to object, but to say that I didn't define faith either, even
28:37: Gallagher, he wouldn't have said that in a debate because obviously I took time to go to the
28:43: Greek word. He's gonna wanna go to a different definition of faith as we're gonna see. But I did more than just that.
28:49: I actually went to verses like Hebrews 11 one, which gives us the definition of faith. And it continues to give us the definition of faith later in verse six that says, this is a faith that doesn't just know facts, but seeks
29:02: God in faith, meaning trusting him with your whole heart in the just shall live by faith.
29:08: That's the same context that Hebrews uses faith and the book of Romans. So yeah, play
29:14: Gallagher because he essentially says, I don't define faith either. I just tell people, go back and listen to the debate.
29:20: I spent a long time defining it. Here we go. Watching this debate. I'll say everyone, 99 % of the people watching this understand when they start talking about the
29:29: Bible and scripture that they mean the 66 books of the New Testament, excluding the Apocrypha, right?
29:35: So, whenever you say, well, he didn't, Mike didn't define his terms properly.
29:40: And I think the ones he mentioned, I tried to type as fast as I could. Faith, works, justification, sanctification, obey, and maybe baptism.
29:47: Maybe those were the five. Not trying to be too critical, but like Jeremiah didn't really define it either.
29:52: For instance, Jeremiah brought up BDAG and said BDAG defines faith as trust.
29:58: And he only gave one definition. He didn't give all the definitions that BDAG gives. So, I wanna sort of show you something really quickly.
30:05: So, this is how you use a lexicon, right? So, if I'm looking at my
30:10: Bible and I believe you guys can see my screen. I'm looking up Hebrews 11 one in the new
30:16: American standard. Now, faith is the substance. I can right click on that English word and click on Bible word study.
30:22: And if I were to click on that, it would bring up this page, right? So, what this does is it gives me the root of the
30:27: Greek word. And then these circle things, this is the lemma, the different uses of that. Cognates, I believe, would be the word that people would use.
30:34: So, then you come down here to the lemma, right? This is the lemma. It's the more specific form of the root. So, it's from the root, pastuo, okay?
30:41: Which means to believe. But the lemma here is pistis or pistis, right?
30:46: And let's see if my software will play it for me. Pistis. Pistis, okay. Faith and trust. Now, these are different lexicons that I have, right?
30:53: There's a whole bunch that I have, right? But anyway, this is, we're gonna click on BDAG. It's what we're referencing.
30:59: And it gives a lot of different definitions. Faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment, assurance, oath, truth, proof, pledge, trust, confidence, yada, yada.
31:05: But listen, faith, the body of faith, the belief or the teaching. In Galatians 1 .23, Paul uses the word faith.
31:11: He said, I preached the faith that I once tried to destroy, right? What was he trying to destroy? The system of faith,
31:17: Christianity. So, you see what he's, he wants to make faith always be the system of faith.
31:24: So, he goes in there, he's like, I'm just gonna use the last definition of the word faith that means the whole system of faith and try to apply it everywhere it says faith.
31:34: That way I can get away from firm trust, reliance upon God and Jesus Christ, right?
31:40: Did I see a comment where the Church of Christ don't use dictionaries, they just use the Bible? And what's
31:46: Gallagher doing here then? Yeah, that was Carl Henry. Let me find him again here.
31:52: I think that's your best friend. I don't even remember Carl, but he just texted me that you did something.
31:59: He didn't like it when I called BDAG the Lutheran BDAG. Yeah, I sent it to you.
32:05: So, and I'm doing this too. Did you know
32:11: I'm pausing for dramatic effect? They have to poison the well best way they can. Why are you being so dramatic,
32:19: Trey? I don't know. I don't mean to be, but yeah. What is this?
32:26: Look at this one. Trey's reading random definition. Aaron quotes from Spurgeon.
32:32: I don't even know what that even means. But let's just keep going with it. Aaron's quoting a Baptist. What in the world?
32:40: Here we go. On that English word and click on Bible word study. And if I were to click on that, it would bring up this page, right?
32:47: So what this people would use. So it's from the root Pistuo, okay? Which means to believe, but.
32:53: So does Pistuo also mean baptized? Because faith means you gotta be baptized.
32:59: I have to go back and look at Pistis, but I don't remember that in any of the definitions.
33:05: Yeah, so. All I'm gonna hear is Pistis or Pistis, right?
33:10: And let's see if my software will play it for me. Pistis. Pistis, okay. Faith and trust. Now, these are different lexicons that I have, right?
33:17: There's a whole bunch that I have, right? But anyway, this is, we're gonna click on BDAG. It's what we're referencing.
33:23: And it gives a lot of different definitions. Faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment, assurance, oath, truth, proof, pledge, trust, confidence, yada, yada.
33:29: But listen, faith, the body of faith, the belief or the teaching. In Galatians 1 .23, Paul uses the word faith.
33:35: He said, I preach the faith that I once tried to destroy, right? What was he trying to destroy? The system of faith,
33:41: Christianity, right? So, you have different uses. Yeah. The faith. The faith.
33:47: He was preaching the faith, right? So, here's one for Carl. Here's Carl again.
33:52: Carl's getting a lot of attention here. Oh! Hey, how did we miss that Hebrew's letter one was the attribute of faith and not the definition?
34:03: Well, because here's Carl again. Oh! Hebrews six is the definition.
34:08: Don't expose us like that. Hebrews six is the definition of faith. I don't think that's accurate at all.
34:16: Please pull up Hebrews 11. Let's show people what Carl's trying to do. Because remember, I've had you on before and I try to tell people how the
34:23: Church of Christ slowly and ever craftily tried to shoehorn in works.
34:30: They don't want to use the word works. It usually works in the word obedience. Go ahead. Yeah, now faith is, that's gonna tell you what it is.
34:38: Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen, for by it. What's the it?
34:44: Faith. The people of old received their commendation, their approval, okay? Well spoken of to be approved of.
34:52: Commendation. How did they receive their approval? By it. What's the it? Faith. What is faith?
34:57: The assurance of things hoped for, conviction of things not seen. By faith, this right here, we understand that the universe was created by the word of God so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
35:09: So you see the universe, you know the universe didn't create itself. So you see that must be
35:15: God who created this stuff. So then it goes into this stuff of the things that they did. And if you can see the things they did, you must know it came from something unseen, which would be faith.
35:25: Their faith produced this because saving faith produces obedience. He says, verse six, is the definition of faith.
35:33: Without faith, it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
35:41: So that's the definition. That's what he was saying. That's the definition of faith, according to Carl Henry.
35:48: And what I wanna emphasize is the word assurance means firm trust. You know what
35:54: I mean? And then that's paralleled with conviction or evidence, if you got the good old
36:00: King James, and this is an inward assurance that produces a changed life.
36:06: And so it's always inward. It's always of the heart. Verse six, without this inward firm trust, it's impossible to please
36:13: God. For whoever would draw near, how? By faith. You must believe, not just knowing facts, but you must believe that God rewards those who seek him, how?
36:25: In faith. And then we get example after example, that just shall live by faith. By faith, those who are just demonstrate their lives to the glory of God in their obedient works,
36:38: Trey. In case you didn't know. Fishbone? Whoa. There it is, my friend.
36:45: Hey, Carl Henry, it don't mean that. It don't mean that. This was, hey,
36:50: Trey, this was actually for Carl Henry over here in the back. That was for Carl. But I don't think he's gonna believe it.
36:57: But anyway. So what do you think about that? How'd that go? Good start. We do have some questions.
37:04: I don't know if you wanna backtrack a little bit. I wanna honor the side chats on both Facebook world.
37:09: Yes, what's up Casey Taylors up in here? And Nicky Tightpants. You may have to introduce me to some of these cats.
37:19: Okay, so somebody said, I think it's Tracy Lewis on Facebook said,
37:24: I got a question. All right, Tracy, let's see what your question is. Why did you jump from passage to other passages instead of focusing on a passage and exegesis of that passage?
37:36: Mike was laser focused. You weren't. Who was that? This was on Facebook a little bit while back.
37:45: But Trey, I got rebuked for looking at multiple passages and not one. Is that a fair analysis of what
37:52: I did? That you went from passage to passage?
37:58: I think you went to passages to show that you're justified by faith and that works do not justify you.
38:05: You know what's funny too? I did exegete a passage. I think you went to Romans four. You exegeted that.
38:10: I think you went to Luke 18, but this is saying, I referenced. I can't wait to show everybody what he says about Luke 18.
38:18: I referenced Romans four because there's a few key phrases there that our works don't justify us before God.
38:25: Then we see a contrast that we're justified by faith and not by works. And he emphasizes that over and over that our justification is judicial, forensic, vertical, and it's by faith apart from works.
38:36: That's why all I did was read Romans four because it speaks for itself. But Trey, what
38:41: I exegeted, and I don't know if Tracy watched the debate or not, but I exegeted Luke 18 with the parable of the
38:48: Pharisee and the tax collector. Oh, Jeremiah's not talking about baptism. Well, what does baptism mean?
38:54: I already defined that. And I referenced three verses in a row of saying, if I grant that all these are the ceremonial right in the water, then it signifies these spiritual realities.
39:04: And I'd like to encourage Tracy, go listen to my rebuttal because I only responded to the verses that I saw brought up in the debate.
39:13: I remember we went to the Great Commission. He begged the question there. He didn't define his terms. We agreed on a lot. And his assumptions
39:18: I called out because nowhere in the Great Commission says when the point a person is justified, you're just assuming what a disciple means.
39:25: And you're looking at the word go, baptize, and to teach them to, yeah, I agree with all of that, but you gotta parse that out.
39:32: You gotta explain what that means. Mike didn't do that, but he did reference it. He spent a long time, his one string banjo was
39:38: Acts 238. So guess what the majority of my rebuttal time was? Acts 238. And I even started when they were cut to the heart, and I went all the way down to verse where we read that they were added to the church, or they received the word, which that's verse 41,
39:54: I believe. And they were baptized, which is indicative of those that received the word. And that's the whole point is works are indicative of someone who is justified by faith.
40:07: There you go. So the next one is Galatians, where he uses system of faith everywhere in Galatians, and he skips.
40:15: He reads Galatians 3 verse one, but he doesn't want anybody to see the rest of that middle section of chapter three, where it says you receive the
40:22: Holy Spirit by faith, by hearing with faith, by hearing with faith, not the system of faith. But anyway, that's like a nine minute clip.
40:28: We're gonna skip that. I want everybody to see this Luke 18. This is, cause this is, this is crazy.
40:34: Are you ready for this one? Everybody. Born ready, fishbone. Who's ready for, who's ready for a breakdown?
40:40: What up? Nicky tight pants. Josh Ham's in here? Where's he at? Where you at, Josh Ham? Did you say tight pants?
40:47: Yeah, Nicky tight pants. Josh Ham's in here somewhere. All right, here we go.
40:53: Luke 18, are you ready for this? This is a whole nother level. Whoa, whoa, here we go.
40:59: Quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector. Both of those men were saved. They were
41:04: Jews. That dude. You go first.
41:10: That dude said, wait, we're gonna, let everybody hear that again. Ready? Quickly, the
41:15: Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector. Both of those men were saved. They were Jews. They were in the temple.
41:26: Sorry, this is a dramatic pause. This is,
41:33: Nicky tight pants, did you hear that? Quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector. Both of those men were saved.
41:40: They were Jews. They were in the temple. So your point to the
41:45: Pharisee and the wretched sinful man who went away justified, what you didn't know is they were both justified.
41:57: Because they were both Jews. You didn't know that, Jeremiah? Everybody, every Jew is a
42:03: Christian. Seriously, this is what he says. Every Jew. If you're born a Jew, you are in a right relationship with God.
42:10: They were both already in a relationship with God. Now, the Pharisee, very possibly, I would assume he's a
42:17: Jew. So the old covenant, you were born into the relationship with God. Now listen.
42:28: Trey, did you really believe that for 18 years? No, no, like this is one that you, like he is pulling it out of you know where, because that is,
42:37: I don't know any church of Christ person who would ever even say that. You know what I'm saying? But like, this is what he will do.
42:43: Cause I mean, he's got a lot of people following. Haisal would not say that. Haisal wouldn't say that. Of course he wouldn't.
42:48: Cause he, I think Haisal's a little bit more honest than this guy. To say that, I mean, he just knows people are going to believe whatever he says.
42:55: I mean, because that is ridiculous to say that they're both. And if you were a Jew, you were born into a covenant relationship with God.
43:02: Let me tell you something, Aaron. I don't care if you're a Jew. I don't care if you're a Gentile. I don't care if you're a Martian. If you're born, you are in a relationship with God.
43:11: You're either got a really good relationship with God. You've got a really bad one. One way or the other, every person in the world has a relationship with God.
43:17: But to say that the Pharisee and they're saved. Are you kidding me?
43:22: Like, come on, dude. Come on, man. Paul Day, did you hear that? Yeah, I think.
43:28: You were taught that, Paul? He got suckered into it. Paul says that's what he was taught. Trey, I want to echo something you said.
43:35: I will say this. I was never taught that. Thank goodness. Cause I think that at least we think a little bit.
43:41: We'd be like, no, that's crazy. Well, here's the problem. Gallagher doesn't understand covenant theology.
43:47: He doesn't understand what a covenant means. Were the children of Israel born in a kind of covenant with God?
43:54: Absolutely. It was not a covenant of salvation. It was a covenant of works. It was a covenant that was teaching them that they can't save themselves.
44:05: And so it's really unfortunate that Gallagher believes that if you're born, I mean, this was what the
44:11: Pharisees and John 8 were telling Jesus that we're born of Abraham, right?
44:18: And according to Gallagher and the Jews of those Pharisees is we're saved by being of Abraham.
44:25: And whether it was John the Baptist or in Jesus, but talking about how it doesn't matter if you're sons of Abraham by physical birth,
44:33: God could raise up sons of Abraham from these stones. That doesn't mean Jack. He says, your father's the devil, you know?
44:43: And I think Gallagher would say, well, I actually know they were saved under the old covenant. Look, Abraham's our father.
44:50: Jesus said, if you were Abraham's children, you'd be doing the works Abraham did. And they love that part, right? But now you seek to kill me, a man who's told you the truth
44:58: I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You were doing the works your father did. And he says, we're not born of sexual morality.
45:04: We have one father, even God. And Jesus said to them, if God were your father, you would love me for I came from God and I'm here.
45:09: I came not of my own accord. He sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It's because you cannot bear to hear my words. You were of your father, the devil, and your will, you want to hear what free will is?
45:18: Your will is to do your father's desire. That's your will. And he was a murderer from the beginning. He goes on to tell him that you were your father, the devil.
45:26: I mean. Be sure and put Carl. I want to see how far
45:32: Carl is going to try to defend Gallagher. We see right here what he says here. He says, you're not born a Jew. Right, so he either doesn't understand like Gallagher or he's going to try to defend
45:42: Gallagher and it's going to be really, really hard. We're not saying you're not born a Jew, but listen what Gallagher said.
45:48: He said they were born in a salvific relationship with God. Yes, the second temple
45:54: Jews, they taught that and believed it and were rebuked by John the Baptist, Jesus. And I actually want to pull up what the
46:02: Apostle Paul said in Romans chapter two, if we can do that real quick. Nicky Tightpants' wife, Emily, she's 1 % saved when she was born because she's 1 %
46:11: Jewish. I got my tight pants on. Yeah. Have you seen that SNL skit? So if you could pull up Romans two verses 28 and 29.
46:21: So I want Carl to pay careful attention. Pay attention Carl. People were born Jewish, but that doesn't mean they were born in a salvific relationship with God.
46:32: Understand the new covenant is better than the old covenant in every way.
46:38: For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly. Oh wait, unless you were born a
46:45: Jew, according to Gallagher and Carl. No, no, born a Jew outwardly meant you're saved and you're in a covenant with God.
46:51: You're in a covenant relationship with God. And as Trey said, yeah, you are in a covenant of condemnation with God as a rebel of God by birth.
47:00: But he goes on to say, nor is circumcision outward and physical. Well, I thought that was what the
47:06: Jews were commanded to do. Trey, did they have to obey to be circumcised? They had to obey that commandment.
47:13: So they weren't saved when they did that? No, that's not what saved them. Verse 29, but a
47:19: Jew is one inwardly. That doesn't happen at birth. That is by faith, that true
47:24: Israel, true Jew is one inwardly and circumcision is a matter of the things you do,
47:33: Trey, your obedience. No, the heart, by the spirit, not by the letter, not by the law, but praise is not from man.
47:42: You want to know if he's gonna double down, right? Can he do it? Here we go. That's not the context
47:49: Aaron was talking about. Tell us, okay, Carl, defend Gallagher, defend your boy a little bit. What was he talking about?
47:55: What was he talking about? Hey, Carl, we asked Aaron to come on here as well. So, because I would love to ask him, what in the world are you talking about Aaron Gallagher?
48:05: And I would like to say - And Carl, send Gallagher a message that's saying, hey, what are you gonna debate Jeremiah? Yeah, he's not gonna debate
48:12: Jeremiah. I can't wait to talk about mine with him here in a minute when he brings up. But Carl, please tell us what the context was because just to be fair, let's just hear again what he says.
48:21: Let's just make sure. John 6, 44 and 45. Quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector, both of those men were saved.
48:29: They were Jews, they were in the temple. So, they were both already in a relationship with God. It sounds like the context of this that he's referring to is
48:38: Luke 18, they were both saved because they both went to the temple because they were both
48:45: Jews and you're born in that relationship with God as a Jew. He spent thousands hours with you,
48:53: Trey. No, he didn't spend thousands of hours.
48:59: And secondly, who cares? That doesn't mean he's interpreting this right. Very possibly,
49:06: I would assume he's a Jew. So, the old covenant, you were born into the relationship with God.
49:12: John 6, 44 and 45 talks about this. Okay, here we go, Carl.
49:17: Ready? Ready? John 6, 44 and 45 talks about this. John 6, 44.
49:24: I listened to a debate recently on this and I know it don't mean that. It don't mean that.
49:30: No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets and they will all be taught by God.
49:39: So, we gotta ask ourselves, who's the they there? We'll all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard and learned from the father comes to me.
49:47: So, that's John 6, 44 and 45. So, is he saying that every Jew, because they've heard from God and some just they heard it in their ear, therefore they all came to Jesus?
50:01: I don't think so. I think we can read right above this in the section that these Jewish people didn't come to Jesus. Not all of them did.
50:06: You know who he's talking about? He's talking about these guys. All the father gives me, all the father gives me will come to me.
50:15: And here's this part that the church Christ really don't like, is that he came to do the father's will and the father's will is he'd lose none that the father gave him.
50:23: That he raises him up on the last day. Every one of them. It don't mean that. Yeah, well, so that's his context and according to him,
50:34: John 6, 44 and 45 explains that. You can see it very clearly right there.
50:39: Carl said we don't believe that. I'm still confused. Help us understand Gallagher. The different, new covenant's different.
50:45: The old covenant you were born into the covenant. You were a physical Jew. The new covenant you're born spiritually.
50:51: You're born again of water and spirit. That's John 3, 3 through 5. You enter into the new covenant when you're. Wait a second.
50:58: Okay. So Gallagher is saying that, and we agree you're born into the old covenant.
51:06: That doesn't mean you're saved. This is a covenant of works. This is a covenant of condemnation. Paul calls it the ministry of death.
51:13: Gallagher means they are born in the covenant in a saving relationship with God.
51:19: That is wrong. Salvation has always been by grace through faith in the full finished work of the savior to come for Old Testament saints.
51:30: And we live in light of that. You know what that means? That the new covenant has always been the covenant of salvations.
51:37: The Old Testament saints were saved by the new covenant. They were putting their faith in the covenant that was promised, that was to come, that has a perfect mediator in Jesus Christ.
51:50: Right. And I'll just look to show you this. But it's not as though the word of God has failed for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.
51:59: So not everybody who is born, descended from Israel belongs to Israel.
52:07: Hey, Trey. Yeah. Trey. It don't mean that. It don't mean that. But, yeah, did
52:15: Carl leave? I hope not. He has some more defending of Gallagher. Come on,
52:20: Carl. You got this. All right. Back to it. Here we go. When you're baptized, right?
52:26: There's a lot of parallels that you can really put together and it's beautiful when you don't fight against the text. Right? So you were born into the old covenant, right?
52:35: The new covenant, you're born spiritually. Old Testament was physical, new Testament was spiritual. So the idea about Luke 18, it almost is really like ad hominem because it's like argument against the man.
52:45: Essentially what Jeremiah is saying is, if you think you have to be baptized to be saved, you're just like the Pharisee who trusts in yourself, which is not really accurate.
52:54: When I was baptized, I remember sitting on the baptister's steps before and after. I would like to know which time,
53:03: Aaron, because you got baptized a couple times, which when I asked him in his debate, my discussion, his debate, he said he only did it once, but then somebody sent me a video of him saying that he was baptized again.
53:19: So at what time, which one were you sitting on those steps like doing that? And he was saying,
53:27: Lord, I know that I could never do anything good enough. Wait, we got something here from Carl.
53:34: He says, there it is. I don't know exactly what he's talking about. Well, he's just quoting the new covenant promise in Jeremiah.
53:43: Yes, God will write his law on their hearts and he will know them the least to the greatest.
53:49: Check this out, Trey. That's the new covenant promise? All of their sin. All of their sin will be forgiven.
53:54: Not just your past sin. Yeah, so there it is. Getting closer.
54:01: And by the way, that's not the argument. I will put my law within you and I will write it on their hearts and I will be their God. They shall be my people.
54:08: No longer shall each teach his neighbor his brother saying, know the Lord for they shall all know me from the least to the greatest declares the
54:13: Lord for I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more. That's, yep, that's the new covenant.
54:20: That's what we have in Christ. Let me explain something, Carl. That is the only covenant that has saved.
54:26: That is the promise of the new covenant being brought into a greater light.
54:32: That is a further explanation of Genesis 3 .15. That is the promise that saved
54:38: Old Testament saints. The promise of the new covenant. This is why Gallagher, and Carl, please hear me.
54:45: This is why Gallagher is wrong. Yes, you were born as a Jew under the old covenant and you were not in a saving relationship.
54:54: You were not born already justified before God. No, you entered in to the promise of the new covenant by faith.
55:02: That's what Romans four is all about. That's what the whole book of Galatians is all about. And this is what he's saying.
55:08: Aaron, explain physical and spiritual. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. No, he did not.
55:13: He was very clear in what he said. And we can go back and show you again if you want.
55:19: But here we go. Is there anything left? To receive the forgiveness of sins. Luke 17 .10, that when we do all that which we have been given to do, we're still unworthy servants, right?
55:30: Pause that. Because Hysaul brought this out. And I just want to let everyone know, why is it that we are unprofitable servants?
55:37: Because of what we did in our works of obedience? No, it's because the gesture I live by faith.
55:43: We're living our life to the glory of God. We did not earn our justification.
55:48: We were justified by amazing grace. And I want to let everybody know, God's grace isn't just necessary.
55:55: That's Roman Catholicism. Well, grace is necessary, right? You need the grace of what Jesus on the cross.
56:01: You know what the Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12? No, God's grace is sufficient, right?
56:07: God's grace is not just sufficient in our sanctification, but it's sufficient. God's grace alone is what ultimately is going to justify us because that grace tray effectually gives us a heart of faith.
56:20: I'm going to take my word for it. That's what Ephesians 2, 8, and 9, and then 10, right? We are created unto good works, once again, in our sanctification.
56:28: Oh, here we go. Here it is. There it is.
56:34: He spent 30 minutes on Luke 18. You boys are playing like 90 seconds. You know, if we would have played 18 minutes.
56:39: Oh, you didn't play the whole thing. Yeah. You took them out of context. 18 minutes and 30 seconds. Oh, you played 20. You played 28 minutes. Did you say
56:45: Mike Hysaul's on here? Is he watching? My Facebook said that Hysaul's watching, so I just let people know.
56:52: I'll just get Hysaul to answer, because I guarantee you, Hysaul would not say that the Pharisee was saved.
56:59: Nobody would. Hysaul, please, please tell us. Except Carl and Aaron. Carl. And Carl was saying, just because Aaron, but what
57:07: I said earlier, he knows that people are going to back him no matter what, because it's defending the system.
57:14: You know what I'm saying? Like it's defending the system. That's it. That's all they care about, you know? And he knows that there's going to be
57:19: Carls out there that would just agree like, yeah, the Pharisee saved. He was born a Jew. He's a Temple. He's already saved. Already saved.
57:26: Like, bad. Here we go. Let's keep going with this. Let's finish this one up. This one's almost done here.
57:33: Doing what we ought to do. So it's really ad hominem. Nobody that I know was baptized thinking, I'm just,
57:39: I'm going to be baptized. I'm going to knock on the gates of heaven. Hey, all right, Peter, let me in. I was baptized. You owe it to me. Right?
57:45: So I don't agree with that. All right. Of course they don't agree with that.
57:52: Thank you, Casey Taylor. Love you, bro. Yeah, nobody's going to actually say those words.
58:00: Everybody's going to honor them with their lips, right? And so nobody's going to say, yeah, you owe me salvation.
58:05: You can't say that. You have to speak the Christian language. You've got to say, oh no. You know, like Naaman. Well, of course
58:11: God saved me, but when did he save me? When I obeyed. When I did X, Y, or Z. Had nothing to do with faith whatsoever.
58:18: So here we go. Let me teach you. Actually, I'm not going to teach you, Jeremiah. You need to learn how to read the
58:24: Bible. Are you ready? Okay, I'm ready to learn. So let's go through. Everything you said about Luke 18,
58:29: I agree. Everything you said about Acts 2, the argument, it's just being a picture. It's symbolic. I agree.
58:36: Everything you said about Acts 2, the argument, it's just being a picture. It's symbolic. This is one of the best ways you can tell if a doctrine is false.
58:44: So you basically, the more you study the Bible, you will basically see, oh, well, okay.
58:49: If it means what you say it means in this verse, then you have a big problem over here because that won't work.
58:55: So the easiest thing that I would say is the biggest, the easiest way to show, it's many easy ways, but let me show you the easiest way.
59:02: If you look in to show that Jeremiah's argument is wrong. Here you go. Are you ready? I know it's coming.
59:10: Jeremiah is saying is that you're saved before you're baptized. I mean, that's essentially it, right?
59:15: That's to make it. So you're saved whenever you have faith. He's even saying that as soon as you believe in God, regeneration precedes faith, which is what, he hasn't said that in this debate, but I know that's what he believes.
59:28: As soon as you believe, that means you can only believe because God already regenerated you, therefore you're saved. Well, let's say
59:34: Acts 2. You could explain that verse away. You can't explain Acts 22, 16.
59:39: I've seen Trey. Yes, we can. And I cannot wait to do it again. Okay.
59:45: Let's just see if he says anything else. And Jeremiah together on the same show, the cultist show, they tried to basically say the same thing.
59:53: I debated Trey on this, on multiple things, total depravity, once saved, always saved.
01:00:00: And we had four debates on baptism, salvation, faith alone, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did.
01:00:06: But let me just tell everybody real quick before we get any further in this. When Aaron called me, he called me up one day, he said, hey, would you like to do some debates or have some conversations?
01:00:15: He said, would you like to have some conversations on some topics? And I said, yeah, I'd love to have conversations on these things.
01:00:21: He said, yeah, I said, what do you want to talk about? He said, well, baptism, faith alone, and then the five points of Calvinism.
01:00:27: I said, yeah, I'll do that when you want to do it. And he's like, well, would you like to know the things that I might say or bring up?
01:00:33: I said, no, I pretty much know them. You want to do it now? He's like, no. Well, I said, when do you want to do it?
01:00:38: He said, how about tomorrow? I said, okay. And I said, well, look, here's the deal. I'm going to record it and I'll send you the footage after I record it, because I don't believe that you're a
01:00:47: Christian. And so I don't know if I can trust you with that, because a lot of people cut and slice my stuff up and they'll play 10 seconds
01:00:53: TT over and over on loop. And so I said, I'll send you the whole thing.
01:00:59: So we do it. And our first one was a conversation. And then after that, it became, hey, let's do, you know, debate style, five minutes and two minutes and opening statements, closing.
01:01:07: I was like, yeah, whatever. Like total prepared zero for any of it. I would just sit down many times.
01:01:14: I was out doing stuff and I'd have to run to the office and turn it on. I'm breathing hard. I'm like, all right, you ready?
01:01:19: He's like, yeah. And I mean, he's like reading all this stuff. I'm just like winging it, you know? But the only thing is, so he calls a debate.
01:01:27: I call it, I was just having a conversation. Could care less. Secondly, though, he never finished it though, you know?
01:01:33: And I even called him out on the second one. I think the second conversation slash debate we had, I said, are you going to go the distance?
01:01:39: Are you really going to do total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of saying, oh yeah.
01:01:46: He didn't, he quit. I don't know why. I think I do know why, but he didn't want to go the distance.
01:01:52: So there was that. It was more of a conversation for my end, but you can see him reading the whole time when he's doing it, you know?
01:01:58: But I want him to, cause see, Jeremiah has a lot of time where he can prepare for like formal debates.
01:02:05: He loves it. I'm more of a, hey, let's sit on the couch and study. But he's like a formal debater.
01:02:12: But, and I even told Aaron, I said, look, you want to debate Jeremiah? He's like, I don't know. And I said, no, he'll come to your church.
01:02:19: I'm saying like, he'll come. Like his game travels. He's like a professional golfer. You know, he doesn't have to play his home course.
01:02:24: Like he'll go there. And he's like, I don't know. Like he don't want none of the dog, which hopefully -
01:02:31: We can schedule it. We'll schedule it out whenever he wants. Look, we'll get it. I promise you, we'll get this thing on cultish.
01:02:38: We'll go to Arizona. Whatever we got to do. Or we'll go to the GBN, whatever network, and get you on there.
01:02:45: And then you can prepare and get ready and do all that study and stuff that you do with it, of how to ask the questions.
01:02:52: He doesn't understand that I will lock myself in a dungeon and figure out how he thinks. Yeah, guess what
01:02:58: I do? I'm like running here, running there. I'll just sit down. I'm like, all right, what you got? Act 238,
01:03:03: Acts 2216, easy. Let's go. So anyway, back to this.
01:03:10: Watch this for yourself and determine how you think, which position you agree with. But Acts 2216.
01:03:16: I will say one of a close friend of his left the church of Christ. From those debates, which was awesome.
01:03:24: And we've had a lot of good stuff from all of our stuff. Seven, eight preachers now, thank
01:03:29: God. I wanted to, you know, we mentioned old TT. So Travis Thomas, I don't mind for us to drop his name.
01:03:37: To me, Travis is harmless. And he's pretty entertaining, I will give him that. He is entertaining. He is going to be interviewing, do you know who old
01:03:46: TT's interviewing this coming Sunday night? Who? Derek Healy. Derek Healy. I wonder how old
01:03:55: TT figured out that he left the church of Christ. I wonder where he saw that. Oh, look at this.
01:04:01: Look what I get at Carl Henry's house. Story time with Trey. Trey, you do tell the best stories, man.
01:04:08: Take that as a compliment. Oh, I do. From Carl, I take that as a thank you, Carl. Thank you,
01:04:14: Carl. I live in your head rent free, thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. So yeah, he's interviewing
01:04:20: Derek Healy. Yep, this Sunday. And I got a chance to talk with Derek.
01:04:26: Been praying for him and just saying, get ready to get on the highlight reel afterwards. And he's done it to the rest of us.
01:04:34: Wear it as a badge of honor. Told him what questions, no doubt that Travis will talk to him about. So y 'all keep
01:04:39: Derek in prayer. Just that he would be kind, loving, even through some of the nonsense that tends to happen on that platform.
01:04:47: But yeah, that's coming up this Sunday. Look at the third.
01:04:54: She has a question. Does TT stand for turtle turtle? Turtle club. No, that's the turtle book.
01:04:59: We're gonna be doing a turtle book club review later. So let's go back to what he was saying here before Carl got me all at his dinner table telling story time with Trey.
01:05:11: I don't know if you can read this next one, but he made me laugh. What'd he say? Carl. We got a little, we got a little.
01:05:19: Why did I stop drinking? I don't know, Carl. Why did you stop drinking? I have no idea, Carl. It's a weird question.
01:05:26: You had me laughing on that one. That was a good one. All right. So how do you read the
01:05:34: Bible? Acts 22, 16. We don't have an explanation. I think it's great because Paul is the one who writes most of these New Testament epistles.
01:05:40: First and second Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, first and second Thessalonians, first and second Timothy, Titus, break it down for me again.
01:05:47: Hebrews, James, he didn't write Hebrews. I don't think he might have. I don't have any proof of that.
01:05:53: All those epistles Paul wrote, Paul did not teach them to become a Christian in a different way than he did. Unless you're, you know, a dispensational person believes that Jews have a different gospel or different faith than the
01:06:05: Gentiles, which is wrong. So anyway, I say that to say, Paul, the way he taught people to become
01:06:11: Christians is the same way he became a Christian. And Paul in Acts nine meets Jesus asks Jesus, what must
01:06:16: I do? Jesus, ironically, didn't say nothing. I paid it all on the cross. He said, what?
01:06:22: He said, go to the city and be told what you must do, what you have to do. Jeremiah says, nothing you have to do.
01:06:28: Jesus said, something you must do. He goes to the city. He's there, Acts nine, nine through 11.
01:06:35: He's fasting, not eating or drinking. And he's praying for three days, right? Finally, when Ananias comes to him,
01:06:40: Ananias miraculously heals him to show that he's inspired. And Ananias tells him in Acts 22, 16, why are you waiting?
01:06:46: Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the
01:06:52: Lord. Now, if Jeremiah's, if the shoe fits, right? If the glass slipper fits and Jeremiah's doctrine is true, then you have a big problem in Acts 22 because Paul has already believed.
01:07:05: He's already been repentant. He's had a change of life. He's been fasting and praying for three days. And yet an inspired man,
01:07:10: Ananias, and not only Ananias is inspired, in Acts 22, Paul is retelling his own story.
01:07:17: So Paul, who's now inspired, he's been working. Oh, goodness. So that's enough of that. And we're gonna break it down for you, but we're gonna come back to True North's questions.
01:07:25: She says, I'm no longer in the church of Christ. Thank you for your help. And she's wanting to know about, cause she's probably fearful of her sins, right?
01:07:31: All of her sins being forgiven. And it's a fearful thing in the church of Christ. That's why they don't know if I'm saved or not.
01:07:36: I think I'm saved. I don't know if I'm saved. I get re -baptized and know enough to understand enough. And it's a miserable thing.
01:07:42: So True North, we wanna take care of that question for you, but I wanna answer Acts 22 real quick for Aaron again.
01:07:50: And when we did this in our talks, I had quite a bit of people reach out of, they said, this is the one that really made them start questioning everything.
01:08:04: And so let's do it again. Because the first time Aaron ever reached out to me, I was at a hardware store.
01:08:10: And he said, this is the one verse he can't get around. This one, rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.
01:08:18: Well, you know, he's gonna say that calling on his name means, right?
01:08:24: That's talking about baptism. Like that means get baptized, right?
01:08:30: So, but we know in Genesis 4, 26 right here, Seth also a son was born and he called his name
01:08:36: Enosh. And at that time, people began to call upon the name of the Lord. Does that mean they got baptized back then? All the way back in Genesis 4, verse 26?
01:08:43: No. So just to break this down really quick, like you mentioned, it's in Acts 9, 22, 26,
01:08:51: Galatians 1, the conversions of Paul. So here, I just wanna go back to 9, all right?
01:08:57: Let's go back to Acts 9. I want everybody to see this and really pay attention, especially Carl, okay?
01:09:04: Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? He said, who are you, Lord? And he said,
01:09:09: I'm Jesus of whom you're persecuting. Rise and enter the city and you will be told what you were to do.
01:09:15: The men who were traveling, Mr. Speechless hearing the voice, but the Encino one saw rose from the ground, although his eyes were open, he saw nothing.
01:09:22: So they led him by the hand and brought him to Damascus. For three days, he was without sight, neither ate nor drank.
01:09:28: Now there was a disciple of Damascus named Ananias and the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias.
01:09:33: And he said, here I am Lord. The Lord said to him, rise and go to a street called Straight at the house of Judas.
01:09:39: Look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying and he has seen a vision of a man named
01:09:44: Ananias. Come in and lay his hands on him that he might regain his sight. So here's a little note thing I have here.
01:09:50: So this is what I asked Aaron and this is what I'll ask everybody here. Is it fair to say that Jesus has already appeared to Paul and so Saul's his
01:10:02: Hebrew name, Paul's his Greek name. It's not that his name changed when he was converted. It's Hebrew name and a Greek name. But regardless, is it fair to say that Paul has already received this vision from Christ?
01:10:14: He's already manifested himself to him, right? Right. Is it fair to say by looking right here where Jesus calls out to Ananias and says, rise and go to the street called
01:10:24: Straight. He says, there's a man named Saul there. He's praying to me and he's seen in a vision, you,
01:10:31: Ananias coming in and laying his hands on him so he can regain his sight. Is it fair to say that Saul or Paul, whatever you wanna call him, is praying to Jesus Christ who is
01:10:40: God and Jesus Christ who is God is hearing his prayers and answering his prayers, letting him know that I'm gonna send someone to heal you.
01:10:50: Is it fair to say that's true? Aaron said yes. And anybody who's reading the text would have to say yes. But the question is this right here.
01:10:57: John 9 31 says, we know that God does not listen to sinners but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will,
01:11:06: God listens to him. Now, this doesn't mean that God doesn't hear people all over the world. He knows everything.
01:11:12: He's saying in this intimate way, does he hear him like you hear your children over all the other chatter in the world?
01:11:19: This is what he's talking about. So how does this guy say that we know? We know what? That God doesn't listen to sinners but if anyone's a worshiper of God and does his will,
01:11:27: God does listen to him. How do they know that? How does these Jewish people know that? Well, I would say from the
01:11:32: Old Testament, right? So in Proverbs 15 8, it says this right here. Let me just make this a little bit bigger for you so you can see it.
01:11:42: The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
01:11:48: So he hears the prayer of the upright. So is Paul upright in the eyes of God at this point or is he not?
01:11:54: Is he still in his sins and still unregenerate away from him? Let's go to verse 29.
01:12:00: How did we know? And John, these people said that we know that God doesn't listen to sinners but to worshipers of God, he listens to them, those who love
01:12:08: God, right? Look at verse 29. The Lord is far from the wicked but he hears the prayers of the righteous.
01:12:15: Wow. So does this contradict what is happening with Paul?
01:12:21: Is Paul seen as righteous or is he seen as wicked at this moment as he's praying to Jesus, Jesus is hearing his prayers and answering his prayers.
01:12:29: And it says here, the Lord's far from the wicked but he hears the prayers of the righteous. I think you would have to say that he is viewed as righteous.
01:12:37: So here in Psalm 66, says this right here in verses 18 and 19. If I'd have cherished iniquity in my heart, the
01:12:45: Lord would not have listened. But truly God has listened. He has attended to the voice of my prayer. So we see that Paul does not cherish iniquity in his heart.
01:12:53: He is repentant. His faith is in God. God is hearing his prayers and answering his prayers. Isaiah 59 too, says your iniquities have hidden, have made a separation between you and your
01:13:05: God and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear you. So let me ask you this.
01:13:11: Is God hearing the prayers of Paul? Yes. Therefore his sins have not created a space from him.
01:13:20: They're one now. He is at one with God. He is viewed as righteous with God. Why? Because faith. He has faith in Jesus Christ.
01:13:27: He trusts him. And so now his sins have not hidden his face from him and now he hears his prayers.
01:13:33: Do you see that? Does that make sense? It's gotta make sense. Absolutely. Or you just reject it because you don't like it.
01:13:40: But then you can just break down the whole verse of 2216. But I'll let you have some time here, Jeremiah. Yeah, before we go back to Acts 2216, go to Hebrews 13 verse 15 because your best friend
01:13:53: Carl says, "'Calling on his name is not a mental thought or prayer.'"
01:13:58: Now, I don't know if he's calling mental thought prayer. I would say prayer is not just having thoughts floating around your head.
01:14:05: Prayer is indicative of a heart of faith that is giving praise to God, acknowledge him, extolling his name, putting,
01:14:16: Jesus talks about, hallowed be your name, giving God honor and glory. And so when we talk about the word confessing or calling on his name, you're rightly pointing out this is not new to the
01:14:27: New Testament, right? The prophet Joel even talks about, "'Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'"
01:14:33: And that is a further clarification of what Genesis chapter four was talking about. And so I just wanna tell people,
01:14:41: Hebrews 13, 15, this is a really good verse that this word confessing or acknowledging, this is something so much deeper than just having certain thoughts floating around in your head or things like that or doing external sacrifices.
01:14:55: No, this is talking about the heart and then it's going to manifest with what you say and how you live your life.
01:15:02: So that verse right there in 15 says, "'Through him, our perfect high priest, King Jesus, "'then let us continually offer up a sacrifice, "'not of a lamb, not of a scapegoat, "'but of praise to God.'"
01:15:15: That is the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.
01:15:21: So this has to be coming from a changed heart. That's the whole argument of Paul in Romans chapter 10, nine through 13,
01:15:29: I believe. For with the heart, one that believes is justified. Now, if a person were to see that happening to a person or if a person was recalling that experience, well, they're gonna call upon the name of the
01:15:41: Lord. They're gonna cry out in prayer. Prayer is not merely saying the right words.
01:15:47: Prayer is indicative of a heart of faith. You don't have, you can be a mute person,
01:15:52: Trey. Did you know this? And you can still pray to God. When we read, confess with the mouth that Jesus is
01:15:58: Lord, this isn't saying, well, if you're not able to speak properly, then it don't mean that.
01:16:04: You know what I mean? It's because confessing Jesus is Lord is a heart of faith.
01:16:09: So yeah, maybe now with that, going to Acts 22, 16 is a good place to talk about.
01:16:15: All right, so just this sentence right here.
01:16:21: You know it has to be spiritual. It cannot be literal. Plus right here, this is in the middle voice, meaning that the grammatical voice that signifies the subject of the verb is being affected by its own action or is acting upon itself.
01:16:35: So as Paul, rise and be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name, he's causing that.
01:16:41: He's causing the sins to wash away. He's calling the baptism. He's doing it all. Like you would have to say no. Aaron would say no to that, but he'd have to argue with just the way the structure of the sentence is written.
01:16:51: And, but still again, middle voice here. Wash away sins. Here it is in BDAG. It is something away, washing away something from oneself, wash oneself, used an imagery of purification.
01:17:02: It's again, it's a visual. That's what baptism is. It's a picture of the true spiritual reality that's happening.
01:17:10: It's a visual so you can see visually what is truly taking place spiritually. Go ahead.
01:17:16: Trey, you're just begging the question, man. That's what Gallagher would tell you. And this right here is so important to why you must define what baptism means.
01:17:27: Now, if we can agree that it's a ceremony, if we can agree that it's a purification, right?
01:17:33: And you know what? I've even thought about this, Trey. If someone had said, well, I don't see anywhere in the baptism that uses the word ceremony.
01:17:39: If we were to go to John three, we don't have to. But later it talks about the baptism of John, which caused many people to dispute and talk about purification laws or purification rights.
01:17:50: And all of that means is there is a rich Old Testament history of what it means to be fully bathed as rights that are given to have spiritual cleansing.
01:18:02: You know what I mean? So this is why we have to define our terms. This is why in the context of a
01:18:08: Reformed Baptist and a Church of Christ, you can't beg the question. You have to make a case. And this is to Mike's credit in my debate.
01:18:17: I mean, he spent 25 minutes on baptizo and then the word ice for the forgiveness of sins.
01:18:22: And you know what? I think more Church of Christ would have been thankful for him doing that if he would have spent about five minutes, not 25 minutes.
01:18:31: You know what I mean? Because his whole case is this literally means your past sins are washed away.
01:18:39: My whole opening was when you rightly understand a baptizo, when you have the Jewish background that these signifies spiritual realities, well then this is a representation, not the reality.
01:18:53: And I think this is the core of why the Church of Christ teaching or a cult, we don't say that mean, but it perverts the gospel of grace, is because they've replaced the representation with the reality itself.
01:19:04: When you think in the watery graves of baptism, then your past sins are being washed away.
01:19:10: You have to own the fact that you are participating. You are the one being obedient. You are the one in your works obtaining justification before God.
01:19:20: And that distorts the only gospel that is ever saved, which is to be received by faith apart from anything you accomplished.
01:19:27: And you know what the best accomplishment a person could do, Trey? It would be the works of law. And that ain't going to get you there.
01:19:32: And that's the thing too, when they say, well, it's not the works of law. I'm like, well, you can't name a law greater than the works of the law of God.
01:19:39: That is the greatest work you could possibly do is the works of the law. And if you're saying that some other work, it's lesser than the works of the law.
01:19:45: So it can't, if it's not the works of the law, which is the greatest of all works you could do, why would you say, oh, no, and it's not that, it's a lesser work you got to do, right?
01:19:56: Yeah. So is there anything else you want to say on Acts 22, 16 real quick? Yeah, remind me, because Gavin James asked a good question on Facebook, but I do want us to kind of just briefly touch on Acts 22, 16.
01:20:08: So when we understand that baptism is a ceremony, you have to agree you're participating.
01:20:14: No one can now say you're only merely passive. If you're participating and you agree that it's an act of faith, there is a moment within the ceremony that you're passive, but it's an act of faith.
01:20:26: You are participating. You are demonstrating repentance and people cannot deny that fact.
01:20:32: So even Lutherans that are listening, I want to say, listen, baptism is not faith. It's an expression of faith.
01:20:39: It's a work of faith and you have to be consistent with these terms. So that's going to help us in Acts 22, 16.
01:20:45: Ananias is speaking to Paul. And why do you wait? Saul of Tarsus, rise and be baptized and wash, right?
01:20:52: These important terms that signify spiritual realities, wash away your sins, calling on his name.
01:21:00: Well, I just tell people, how would the apostle Paul understood what he said here? Well, he tells us in Romans 10, right?
01:21:06: This means with the heart one believes and is justified. And I just like to sprinkle in here.
01:21:11: Guess what? He already called upon the name of Jesus earlier in the context.
01:21:16: He says, he understands, he's looking at the risen Lord. He even says that this is
01:21:22: Jesus of Nazareth, Paul, whom you're crucifying, persecuting. And then he says, what shall
01:21:27: I do? Kurios, the divine name. And so this is the moment of faith where he calls upon the name of the
01:21:33: Lord from a heart that trusts that this is Yahweh in the Shekinah glory and identifies as the resurrected
01:21:39: Jesus. This is the moment that I believe in Galatians one says, look, I received the gospel, the good news, that's the power of God unto salvation from Jesus himself, from God, right?
01:21:52: He met me when I wasn't seeking God. I was actually going my own way, persecuting the church.
01:21:57: Guess what? That's a picture of all Christians at one point. We were not seeking after God, but he sought us.
01:22:04: So then it is true that Ananias later, after Paul in faith confessed that Jesus is
01:22:12: Lord and was justified. It is true that Ananias preached the gospel here, but it wasn't the first time that Paul had heard the gospel.
01:22:22: Tell me if your baptisms look like this. When I baptize somebody at 12 five, guess what
01:22:27: I'm talking about? The gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ, the picture of what he's done, who he is, what he's done in this person's life.
01:22:33: Because if everybody was silent and you just got in the water and it was just dead quiet and people were confused what was going on,
01:22:42: I would argue that's not a proper baptism. You need to contextualize this ceremony with the gospel. You should see the early church and what they did.
01:22:48: We'll talk about the early church in a minute. Aaron wants to get in the early church. We're going to get in the early church, I promise you.
01:22:54: It don't work out. But so to answer Gavin's question real quick, right? This one right here.
01:23:01: He said, the question I have left over for the debate, and I want to get back to True North because that's when I really want to answer is True North's question.
01:23:08: But Gavin says, question I have left over from the debate is baptism of the Holy Spirit of ceremony and the answer is no.
01:23:14: So let's go to True North. I just want to add, baptism of the
01:23:20: Holy Spirit is not a ceremony made with human hands. That's the whole point. God says,
01:23:26: I will take out that heart of flesh. I'll give you a heart, a new living heart of flesh and I will cleanse you with my spirit.
01:23:34: It's not talking about your participation. God says that I will do these things. This is what
01:23:39: Paul talking about is the powerful working of God. And what Jesus said to John the
01:23:45: Baptist is, you must be born from above. It has to be a work of God that you believe. So let's go,
01:23:53: I'm going to go back up here and try to find these comments from True North because this is, so here, let's put these up right here.
01:24:03: This is the stuff I like to answer here. Here we go. True North. I don't even know where True North is.
01:24:09: I think it's... All right. So she says, I'm tracking with you, but I still don't completely understand since the scripture talks about being forgiven for past sins, the
01:24:22: New Testament talks about past sins. I get that. I get that Jesus ultimately forgives all my sins, but why does the
01:24:29: New Testament talk about forgiveness from past sins? I'm no longer in the church of Christ. Thank you for your help.
01:24:36: Go ahead. I'm curious, maybe True North, you can bring some clarity. We are not the ones saying that only your past sins are forgiven, and I'm not aware of that.
01:24:45: I think for, I'm just going to take a stab at this. She's came out of the church of Christ.
01:24:52: So the church of Christ teaches heavily that only your past sins are forgiven, which they have a huge problem with.
01:25:01: Now they'll jump to 1 John and say, well, if we confess our sins by, like Aaron does all the time. But the problem with that is in Hebrews, it says without the blood, without blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
01:25:10: And so if you're saying that you contact the blood of Jesus in baptism, that's where you contact that blood.
01:25:17: You can say, I'm sorry, all you want from here on out. But if there's no blood to wash away those sins you commit after you got baptized, you're going to have to go back into the water and contact the blood again, because without blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
01:25:32: So that's a big theological problem they have. But this is, I would say, this is what she's struggling with because in the church of Christ, they teach that your past sins are forgiven.
01:25:42: And from here on, moving forward, pull up yourself by your bootstraps and work yourself hard and prove yourself, right?
01:25:49: True north, am I right on that? Before we start answering. Yeah, because our position is when you receive forgiveness of sins and we don't have to go here, but Romans 4 talks about that your sins are, when they're no longer imputed on your behalf, they can never be imputed on your behalf.
01:26:09: Why? Because when you put your faith in Jesus, this is the instrument of our justification. All your sins, past, present, and future goes back to the cross of Calvary, and it gets better,
01:26:20: Trey. I know you know this, I know you preach this at your church, but we get the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed on our account.
01:26:30: And if that's a perfect righteousness and it's imputed on our account, then we can't lose our justification because of a perfect savior, a perfect mediator, and a perfect intercessor in the new covenant.
01:26:42: Will we sin again? Like 1 John says, if you say you don't, then you're a liar. Yes, but a believer has relationship now and we confess and we repent relationally, because we know positionally we're already declared right before God.
01:26:59: Yeah, so this right here, blessed is the man. So right here, look, to the one who does not work, wow, but believes, in him,
01:27:10: God, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, the one who does not work. You know,
01:27:16: Aaron says we bring out really hard verses that are hard to understand. That's what Reformed theology does. I know that's pretty difficult to understand, the one who does not work, but believes in him, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.
01:27:28: Just as David also speaks of the blessing to the one whom God counts righteousness, apart from works, anything you do.
01:27:34: Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count sin.
01:27:41: So again, what sin? What sin is he not gonna count? Well, he's not gonna count all the sins in which he died for.
01:27:47: What did he die for? He died for all of our sins. That's what he died for. And here is 2
01:27:53: Corinthians 5, right? It says that, for our sake, he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him, we might become the righteousness of God.
01:28:05: So that's that great exchange that Jeremiah's talking about, True North. We exchanged our sinfulness on him, and he, in place, he imparted his righteousness to us, all of it, not some of it, all of it, because we imparted all of our nasty sinfulness on him, and he died in our place, and we actually died with him there in the eyes of God.
01:28:26: We'll talk about that here in a minute. That's what Colossians 2 would be talking about. But here, yeah,
01:28:33: I know, True North says that she believes in faith alone, and that's great. But Gavin, look at this here.
01:28:40: He trapped us. And we said that the - He got us to admit that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a ceremony. Is not a ceremony.
01:28:46: I'm like, you heard it here first. Ladies and gentlemen, baptism doesn't always mean ceremony. Well, here's the thing.
01:28:52: I don't know if this is groundbreaking for Gavin, like if he didn't know this, or if he's just trying to show people.
01:28:58: He didn't have to try to trick us out. Was he trying to trick us with the question, is Holy Spirit baptism a ceremony? No. Oh, we got him, we got him, y 'all.
01:29:05: I'm like, well, I could have told you that baptism, you just said, look, do you think that baptism always means a ceremony? I'd say, no, no.
01:29:13: Now, I will say baptism into water is always a ceremony. That's always been our case. So I don't know if this was groundbreaking for Gavin.
01:29:19: But just the word baptism is not always a ceremony. Oh, yeah, yeah, no. I would always say, well, I've preached on this.
01:29:25: I've explained this on my podcast, YouTube channel, Trey, that baptizo just means immersion, right?
01:29:32: You can be immersed into water, ceremonial, right? You can be immersed into suffering.
01:29:38: Jesus talks about a baptism under suffering, or you can be immersed into one's authority, like in 1
01:29:43: Corinthians chapter 10. Moses. I've always said, baptizo, it has to be understood in context.
01:29:49: But if that context involves water, where you're being immersed, that, definitionally, is a ceremony, a purification, right?
01:29:59: So, yeah. Everett Young in the building. The Young in the house. What up,
01:30:05: Everett Young? Look, Carl. Hey, and Dalton Chalice is in the YouTube channel, too.
01:30:11: Look, Carl Henry picked up on that, too, now, what Gavin said. Oh, man. Oh, gosh, they got us.
01:30:18: They got you. They had a high -five moment. Okay, here we go. Listen to this one. This is a good one.
01:30:23: Ready? So, I'm rambling and digressing, but essentially, what Calvinism and Reformed Theology does is they go to the difficult passages that a lot of people haven't studied, like Romans 9.
01:30:41: We go to these difficult passages, like, I don't know, John 3, 16, whoever believes.
01:30:46: That's tough. I mean, like, that's a tough one. Here we go again. I just wanna play it again.
01:30:52: Everybody hear it. Is they go to the difficult passages that a lot of people haven't studied, like Romans 9, John 6, 37,
01:30:59: John 6, 44, John 6, 45. They go to these passages, Ezekiel 36, passages a lot of people haven't studied before.
01:31:07: Now, how do you know that, Aaron? Jeremiah, how does he know that a lot of people haven't studied this? I found that a little insulting for people.
01:31:15: Does he tell them that they, look, y 'all, now, you might've read it. You don't understand it.
01:31:21: These are hard passages. Trust me, it don't mean that, right? When it says the one who does not work, but believes in him, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is kind and righteous, that's a very hard thing to understand, because what you don't understand is that word faith is a root of pisteuo, which is believe, which also means you have to be baptized.
01:31:41: And see, that's not in there, so I have to explain it to you that that actually means you have to be baptized. Now, that seems confusing, but just reading it for what it says doesn't seem confusing to me.
01:31:50: But according to him, we use very hard passages to confuse him. And they misteach them.
01:31:57: They misapply them. But if you've never studied it before, you're like, oh, wow, I didn't even know that text said that.
01:32:03: And so, then they take the hard passages to form. Like, don't work, but believe in Jesus Christ and put your trust and faith in him.
01:32:11: Like when Jesus says, whoever looks upon me and believes, be saved. Like, that's a very tough passage. We take those passages, and we misapply them.
01:32:21: Therefore, we've been justified by faith and now at peace with God. That's a really tough passage. Okay, let's look at that.
01:32:28: Let's just look at that. Oh, Mack Slick had a good one on this one, right? So, when it says, therefore, we have been justified, saved, right, by faith.
01:32:41: Now, faith doesn't mean baptism, and nobody thinks that. Like, when you tell your kids, have faith in me, you don't mean to go get baptized.
01:32:48: Are you telling your kids to go get baptized when you say, hey, look, son, just have faith in me. What are you telling them?
01:32:55: I'm telling my kid to get baptized in me. That's what I'm telling them. Like, no, it's not hard to understand. I need to get my second cup of coffee.
01:33:03: We've been justified by faith. We have peace with God. So, here's the question. Do I have peace with God when I have faith, or do
01:33:09: I not have peace with God when I have faith? That's a simple question. It's not hard, it's not difficult.
01:33:14: Like, bottom shelf Christianity all over the world knows that it's a religion that says that you're saved by faith in God, in Christ Jesus.
01:33:23: It's not complicated. So, we're the ones making it complicated. Like, when you start changing the definitions of words, things get a little complicated for people.
01:33:33: But let's just go back to this and how we make things hard. To formulate their doctrine.
01:33:39: And they come to very easy passages, and they basically say, nope, that's not what it means because Romans 9.
01:33:45: That's not what it means because Ezekiel 36, right? Which is sort of the opposite of good Bible study. Logical good
01:33:51: Bible study is you take the very simple, easy, clear passages, and you say, okay, what does this clear passage say?
01:33:58: Okay, that I know is true. So, how do I reconcile a difficult passage? Mm -hmm,
01:34:05: I agree with that. And you basically interpret the difficult passages in light of the plethora of easy verses.
01:34:13: That's like the opposite of what Calvinism does. So, Mike. Okay, so that's the opposite. So, let me just put this up here and we'll wait on, we got
01:34:21: Carl here again. He's gonna tell us what Romans 5 means. Romans 5, justified by the same kind of faith
01:34:28: Abraham had. Romans is a point to the next point book, okay?
01:34:33: Okay, okay, here we go. Romans 5, 1. Therefore, when you see the word therefore,
01:34:40: Carl, you ask yourself, what's the word therefore, therefore? It's right above this. What is it right above this?
01:34:48: Let's see here. For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be a heir of the world did not come through the law, but through righteousness of faith.
01:34:55: Look, you gotta see Carl's statement here. He's telling us what Romans 5, 1 means, okay?
01:35:01: There it is. For if the adherence of the law, who are to be the heirs, faith is null and promise is void.
01:35:07: For the law brings wrath, but where there's no law, there's no transgression. That's why it depends on faith. In order the promise may rest on grace, be guaranteed to all the offspring.
01:35:15: Not only is the adherent of the law, but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.
01:35:22: All right, stay with me here, Carl. As it's written, I have made you the father of many nations in the presence of God in whom you believed and whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
01:35:33: In hope, he believed against hope and he should become the father of many nations. As he had been told, so shall your offspring be.
01:35:40: He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which is good as dead since he was about 100 years old, or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb, no unbelief made him waver.
01:35:50: Now listen, Carl, point by point, remember? No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith and he gave faith and he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he'd promised.
01:36:01: That is why his faith was counted as righteousness. So what did he do? But now
01:36:07: Carl says, no, no, no, Trey. You gotta take the whole, I'll stay with you, Carl.
01:36:12: We can do it all night long. My wife and kids are out of town, so we can do this all night long.
01:36:18: The whole chapter four, Trey. Okay. Ready, Jeremiah? I'm ready.
01:36:24: So is Carl trying to redefine faith and the faithfulness we get? Yeah, he's saying that the faith in Romans 5, 1 is the faith of Abraham, and Abraham's faith was doing, right?
01:36:34: You gotta obey. Look here. If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
01:36:41: For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and that doesn't mean baptized or did anything, believed, trusted
01:36:48: God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Now to the one who works, Carl, his wages are not counted as a gift, but as a due.
01:36:56: And to the one who does not work, but believes in him, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.
01:37:05: Now to say that we take hard passages and make them difficult and mix them up and everything, like nobody, you have to be brainwashed in this.
01:37:17: You really have to be brainwashed in this to see it, because if I just brought this to anybody and you gave them your side and I just read them what it said, they would say, what are you talking about,
01:37:26: Carl? You know, it just is what it is. To the one who does not work, does nothing, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.
01:37:38: Do you see that? Can I comment on that real quick? Yeah, go ahead. Hopefully nobody saw that I was wearing shorts.
01:37:44: I think we're good. So you know how you said the person that does nothing?
01:37:50: The Church of Christ, a lot of times hear that and say, oh, they just contradicted Acts 237.
01:37:55: What must we do? And the Calvinist says we don't do it. And I wanna tell people, you don't do anything by your works.
01:38:02: That doesn't mean you don't have a response of repentant faith, a love in Christ finished work.
01:38:09: And by us saying you don't do anything by your works, that doesn't mean that you are denying yourself and your self -righteousness or whatever facade that you're wearing.
01:38:21: But Gallagher has either done this in the videos we've already looked at or the ones to come, but he's mischaracterizing our position when we say, well, the
01:38:30: Calvinist says you don't have to do anything. We're saying by your works, by your works, that doesn't negate that you must respond in faith.
01:38:39: We are arguing, but that's not of your works. That is a gracious gift from above. That's a gift from God.
01:38:45: That is something that God works in you, grants to you. Does that make sense?
01:38:50: What does believe in Him mean? That's what Carl says. Okay, so this is a good question.
01:38:56: This is a good question if it's meant sincerely. Obviously he thinks it's a gotcha. I mean, I just don't think he understands.
01:39:02: But believing in Jesus means to put your faith in Christ apart from your accomplishments.
01:39:11: It does not mean, now you gotta look at the context because there are people, I mean, even the demons believe in God and there's even an effect that produces from their knowing the right facts.
01:39:21: They tremble knowing that Jesus is the Holy One of God and that's still not enough to save you. Why? Because the demons cannot trust from a heart of faith.
01:39:29: They can acknowledge facts, but that is not enough to save a person. What does it mean to savingly believe in Him?
01:39:38: To trust that Jesus is a perfect Savior, trusting in His finished work, trusting that He is the
01:39:46: Savior and you cannot add any of your sin -tainted works of obedience to what
01:39:52: Jesus accomplished at Calvary. That's the beauty of the New Covenant is that Jesus saves to the uttermost by His work of intercession, not a joint participation of, well,
01:40:02: He did about 95 % and you still gotta do five more percents, meaning a step, five -step formula, right, 1%.
01:40:10: What B. Dagg would say regarding that verse is it's with the person to whom one gives credence or whom one believes in, right, which falls under the definition of to consider something to be true and therefore worthy of one's trust.
01:40:25: Like you trust them and you believe in them. So demons don't trust. They don't trust in God. They believe He exists. I mean, like you might believe, you know, some character exists and puts presents under the tree.
01:40:35: You might believe that. Doesn't matter. Do you trust? So again, one body, which is the body,
01:40:40: His body, which is His church, the church of Christ. I mean, man, if you just had some, a little bit of common sense, you'd think
01:40:47: He drove by these denominations where it says grandma's church, Baptist church, Methodist church, live church.
01:40:54: I mean, He drove an hour and 20 minutes here and they act like they give God the glory and Jesus the
01:41:00: Son. Grandma's church, Baptist church, Presbyterian church, church of Christ.
01:41:05: Same thing again, they deny redemption. Man, if you just had some, a little bit of common sense.