Does BAPTISM now save us? PT.1 w/@theparishreformed @AaronGallagherTV

All right.

All right.

All right.

About to go live right here.

I guess we are going live.

We're going to be reviewing a little review that took a little bit, but we're going to do it with the dog.

You ready for the dog?

There he is.

Well, hello.

Fishbone.

It don't mean that.

We're back.

It don't mean that.

It don't mean that.

So are you ready to do a review of the review?

I was so ready that I thought it was time I trimmed my beard for it.

Dude, you got a baby beard now.

I know.

I got a baby beard.

I just got to hit the reset on it.

You know, like, you know, baptism washes away your past sins.

You need that reset button.

You got to get re -bearded.

So what did you think about Aaron's eight hour review?

Eight hours, dude.

He'll hold him.

He holed up in an office for eight hours, dude.

I hope his family was on vacation.

That's a whole work shift.

I thought, you know, on one hand, I could see myself, Trey, I could see myself doing an eight hour

work shift reviewing a debate.

I think I would love that actually.

Would you?

You probably would.

Yeah, you would.

I'd lock myself in that dungeon.

I was driving back from Baton Rouge and I saw it and I started laughing when

I saw eight hours.

And so I was just fast forwarding to what, you know, what he said.

And I was like, okay, yeah, we're going to have to review this because it's not good.

Some things that were said.

So I did want everybody to know that I did invite him to be on

this right here with us.

I sent him an email.

I know we were doing it.

Asked if he would want to join us so he could defend anything we said and

no response.

So I did my due diligence.

Maybe he'll do a review of our review of his debate.

Review of my debate.

He'll be 16 hours.

I don't know why he's scared to debate you though.

We'll talk about that later.

Are you willing to do it?

Of course I would be.

Of course you would be.

I think it'd be great.

I would do any format under the sun that he wants.

We'll get you on cultish.

Get both of y 'all on cultish to do it.

Trey, we should have Jerry and Andrew moderate a live in

-person debate for cultish episode with a debate with me and Gallagher.

I think maybe he would do that.

I think he would love it.

Yeah.

I'll take, I'll talk more about my discussions with him later when he mentions me in the debate or in his review

of the debate.

So we got some people watching, jump in there on the interview, the chat deal.

And if you have any questions as we go, put a cue beside your message and we'll bring it up on the screen.

We'll try to answer whatever questions you may have.

So you're ready to jump right into it.

You want to say anything else before we jump into this?

Yeah.

A couple of things.

Shout out to Leanne Ferguson, just all of her support.

All of her labors for the kingdom of just trying to bring clarity on the gospel of grace.

Shout out to the turtles, the turtle book, the turtle club.

We're going to be doing a little.

Book review of that one pretty soon because again, I've reached out to him and others there and just

said, look, I want to ask questions.

I said, I don't even want to tell you what I think.

Don't want to argue.

I just simply want to ask questions of some very apparent contradictions in this thing.

Just to, I said to God, anybody can be there.

I don't care.

Just want to ask questions and that's it.

But got nothing.

So we'll review.

So you ready to go into this?

Before we dive in, I want to also just tell people, I listened carefully to a lot of things that Aaron

said in his review.

And one thing kind I want to say is he was not afraid to tell people where he disagreed with Mike Hysall.

He disagrees on Mark 16, 16.

He disagrees with the core understanding of Acts 2 .38 about what it means to be baptized in the

name of Jesus.

And so what this showed me was there is so much diversity amongst the church of

Christ and their proof text and their theology at large.

However, what binds them together is that they believe your past sins are washed away

in the watery graves of baptism.

So I want to let everybody know, no matter which sect of the church of Christ you fall under,

if you believe that core tenet, then that is a gospel that cannot saved.

And if you tell me, well, I disagree with them on, I believe in salvation by faith alone.

Then I'm going to tell you, then you're not church of.

Christ.

Right.

And that, when I don't, I did the cultures thing.

That's what I just stayed on.

They believe you're born perfect.

The vast majority of them.

I've not met one that doesn't, but so anyway, born perfect.

And then you have to be baptized to be saved and you can lose your salvation.

That was the points.

But, so baptismal regeneration, which he says is he doesn't believe in baptismal regeneration, but that's another point that

Mike Isall does believe in.

And Mike Isall said that you don't necessarily have to be baptized because if you

intended to get baptized and died, then you could be saved, which Aaron will show that

clip.

He gives about a 20 minute, you know, word Judo scripture salad, where you

almost forget what the question was because it took him so long to answer it to him to say, you're going to hell no matter what.

When y 'all had a debate, more of a discussion, he didn't like that y 'all's exchange was timed.

Back and forth, did he?

Well, no.

And he had, I got emails anyway

with him.

I should make public, should just throw them out there.

But, but in emails, he wanted to have 10 minute answers.

And I'm like, dude, 10 minute answers.

If you, two minutes.

And he's like, no five minutes.

I'm like, man, if you can't give an answer in two minutes, like you need to find another answer.

But this is why they have to have so much time so they can just like start picking and pulling scripture everywhere, just

jumble it all up and everything, get everybody confused.

And that's why they have to have so much time to give their answers because it's just scripture

judo.

All right, let's go.

Let's see here.

First of all, let's talk about this one right here, where you have to be consistent, Jeremiah.

You were not consistent.

Okay.

And he's going to bring up second Kings chapter five, Naaman had a discussion with some, a church Christ

God.

Never read that one.

And he's bringing up second Kings five.

And I said, I wouldn't bring up second Kings five, if I were you.

I mean, I know you do, but I wouldn't, it's not a good one.

He's all not, I'm not, I'm not.

And then like 30 minutes later, he goes to try to use it.

Cause they did this.

There's only so many spots you can go to, but you know, this is one that Aaron goes to, to try to prove

baptismal regeneration.

And, um, we're going to show you why it's a bad move.

So here we go.

Let's see what he says here.

Hey, whatever this phrase means in Matthew 26, 28, you should be consistent and it should mean the same thing in acts two 38.

So did Jesus Christ shed his blood because sins are forgiven already?

No.

Um, acts two 38, were they repenting and being baptized because sins have been forgiven already?

No.

So, um, that's the argument some people make.

Um, anyway, so that's, that's one thing I like.

I really liked when Mike said this, he worded it this way, physical water cannot wash away spiritual guilt.

Uh, there is a teaching called baptismal regeneration that unfortunately people throw around that phrase

nowadays, not realizing historically what that meant.

Um, for instance, like in Charles Spurgeon, um, in the 1600s, he was a Baptist preacher in London at the

maybe Metropolitan Tabernacle.

I don't remember, but he was like the most famous.

Some people call him the Prince of Baptist preachers, right?

He's the most famous Baptist preacher probably ever.

Um, and he was talking about baptismal regeneration in one of his sermons.

And he talked about how the church of England, I think it was, was the only one that taught it.

So back then what they meant by that is they meant that water without faith would regenerate.

So like baptismal regeneration, who really teaches that is like Catholics or believe maybe Lutherans

where they say, Hey, um, you dip a baby in water and that water because the

it's Holy, um, God will forgive the sins, right?

Not the water's Holy, but they, they still think I teach that God forgives the sins when they're baptized, but that's not what we teach.

So when someone says, Aaron, you teach baptismal regeneration, I'm like, well, I know what you mean by that, but

don't conflate that with what baptismal regeneration is historically.

Yeah.

I got to stop it there.

I got to stop it there.

And let's just, I mean,

here's the thing is this whole idea.

And this is what's so sad.

So many people just trust people.

They trust them, whatever they say.

Like there's so many people who watched Aaron Gallagher that just trust him, right?

For instance, we did a video on talking about what it means to obey the gospel.

Hippie Kua, what that Greek word means.

They did a video.

They did a video saying how I was stupid line.

Didn't know what I was talking about.

Didn't know what lexicon I got that from.

So we brought up about 17 lexicons proven that it's, it's a heart thing.

It's, it's a looking at the gospel of Jesus Christ and being in awe with it and taking it to the heart,

showed all the definitions in every lexicon and just show that they were lying,

absolutely lying, you know?

And thank God someone called me up about a month ago and watch that.

So they had to watch it twice.

And now they're, they're gone just simply from seeing that like that was just a mind blower to them.

But here's this one right here that, that baptismal regeneration

is talking about just the water washing away original sin and babies, stuff like

that.

So here we go.

Let's just see what it is.

Baptismal regeneration.

Here's the glossary of theology right here.

Baptismal regeneration, the idea that baptism is the means by which original sin is washed away.

That is water baptism is how the Holy Spirit performs the regeneration of the believer, right?

Would he say that he agrees with that, that at baptism, that's when the Holy Spirit performs

regeneration of the believer?

Yes.

Yes.

So it's necessary part of salvation.

Would he say that that's the necessary part of salvation?

Yes.

Here's another one.

Baptismal regeneration.

According to the church of Rome, regeneration includes not only spiritual renewal.

He would agree with that also justification or the forgiveness of sins and is affected by

means of baptism.

Now that's what your whole debate was about, right?

Your whole debate was about that.

So yes, he would agree with that.

Here is, let's see here.

Roman Catholics, advocates of baptismal regeneration.

Roman Catholic church teaches, teaches it describing baptism as the lever of regeneration at the Council of Trent.

It anathematizes who disagree.

So if you disagree, you're going to hell.

If anyone saith that baptism is free, that is not necessary unto salvation, let him be anathema.

Now, Jeremiah, doesn't he think that we're anathema because we don't believe that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Same thing with Eastern Orthodox.

We'll go here.

Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Baptists, Methodists, Low Church, Episcopalians differ from that of the Roman and the

Greek churches and the high church of Anglicans in his rejection of the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of

regeneration and that the grace of regeneration is effectually conveyed through the administration of the right

wherever duly performed.

That's exactly what, that's what region, that's what baptismal regeneration is.

So as much as he wants to say, that's not what it is.

That's what it is.

Do you agree?

You want to say anything before we go back.

Into this, before he goes into 2 Kings chapter 5?

You want it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

People mean different things by baptismal regeneration, but the question you have to ask that you brought out is, all

right, Gallagher, all right, Hysol, when is a person regenerated?

Is it about faith or is it at another point in time?

Oh, you're regenerated in the watery graves of baptism.

Guess what?

That's baptismal regeneration.

Sure.

So this is the weird quandary that they're in.

Yeah, they believe in baptismal regeneration differently than the Anglicans, the Lutherans, and the Roman

Catholic and the Greek Orthodox.

Yes, but you still believe in baptismal regeneration.

Lutherans, Catholics, a lot will say, well, yeah, you got to baptize infants because in

baptism it washes away original sin.

Guess what?

Church of Christ, they don't mean that.

They don't believe in original sin.

Right.

So to me, it's like a waving of the hand for Gallagher to say, well, we don't really believe in baptismal

regeneration historically.

Well, you believe that you're regenerated in baptism.

Y 'all just reject infant baptism and they didn't get to say, well, then we

don't get to say we believe in baptismal regeneration because we don't baptize infants.

No, you believe adults, believers, or those that confess Christ, they get

regenerated in baptism.

So to me, this is a weird point.

This is why Mike Hysall openly says, of course, we believe in baptismal regeneration.

They had a debate review recently, actually really enjoyed a lot of the input that they said reflecting

on our debate.

And when Hysall was taking me to town on BDAG, which I hope we talk about this a little bit because I

don't know, if you've been looking on Facebook, we have a lot of questions out there and I've been letting people know I've been seeing

them.

And to me, they crack me up.

But when they're doing their debate review and they were talking about,

you know, we're getting into, oh, Lutherans understand that the grace of justification

happens in baptism.

Number one, I don't think they do, actually.

They'd be more on our side when they say justification is by faith alone.

But every time in the debate where I would tell Mike and regeneration and regeneration, his debate

review was he said, of course, Jeremiah's acting like he's teaching me something.

And of course, we believe that you're regenerated in baptism.

And that wasn't what I was doing.

I was just saying like there's a full picture that I agree Mike and Lutherans are very

similar, that regeneration happens in baptism.

So this is just a point of inconsistency.

Now here's I think why there's an inconsistency with with Mike and

Gallagher is because Gallagher is a far right wing Church of Christ, which

is more restorationist.

The further you go back, like they're all going to sound the same, make similar Campbellite.

Now, Mike, I saw he's a right moderate leaning, so he doesn't make the same

kind of arguments that Gallagher makes.

And this is just to demonstrate to people, they're all not the same, the core tenants are there, but there's a lot of

disagreements amongst the CFC.

Like the Mark 1616, the hard, hard ones want it because it says that baptism, you know,

whoever believes in is baptized will be saved.

But again, they don't even really believe that had a guy reaching out to me this week from a local congregation.

Yep, he kept sending me all these memes.

And I messaged him, I said, look, Hey, if you want to meet and talk about, you know, scriptures, I would love to

do that, but don't send me memes.

I don't get my theology from memes.

So if you want to sit and talk, I would be more than happy to sit.

I'll meet you anywhere.

So he just kept sending me all these memes about how do you got to get baptized, be saved.

And so finally he sent me Mark 1616.

He said, you don't believe Mark 1616.

I said, actually, I do.

You don't, you know, I said, cause it says whoever believes in is baptized will be saved.

So you don't believe that you believe whoever believes in is baptized might be saved, could be saved, has the opportunity to be saved,

but not will be saved.

Right?

Because you believe they could lose their salvation.

So you really don't believe it.

So let's just go back to his deal about being consistent.

And he's about to bring up second Kings chapter five.

Let's see what you think.

Right?

So the reason I think that's important to mention is Mike said, let me get it.

He said, physical water cannot wash away spiritual guilt.

That's what we believe that the new Testament teaches.

It's also historically what all the early church writers, the apostolic and anti -Nicene fathers taught,

but that's a different point for a different day.

So physical water doesn't wash away spiritual guilt, but a good analogy is in the

old Testament.

Second Kings five, a man named Naaman has leprosy and Naaman wants his leprosy cleansed.

So what does he do?

He goes to a prophet and the prophet basically gives him the instruction to dip in the Jordan seven times.

And he says, I don't want to dip in the Jordan.

I want to dip in these nice, clean rivers in Damascus.

And then his servant girl's like, just do what he says.

So Naaman goes and dips in the Jordan seven times and his leprosy is miraculously healed.

Now, if you could take a time machine back and say, Naaman, what healed your leprosy?

Was it God or the water?

He would obviously say God did it, but when did God do it?

He did it whenever you obeyed.

The command, the.

I remember this.

It had nothing to do with his faith.

It had nothing to do with his faith.

It had everything about his action, him doing.

Now he would say, of course, God did it.

God healed me, of course.

But when, when you did, when you obeyed, had nothing to do with faith.

So he wants to, he wants to act like you do have to have faith, but you really don't.

But we'll talk more about that in a minute.

So Naaman, I'm just going to back up just a hair bit so you can.

Go back and hear that again.

And his leprosy is miraculously healed.

Now, if you could take a time machine back and say, Naaman, what healed your leprosy?

Was it God or the water?

He would obviously say God did it, but when did God do it?

He did it whenever you obeyed the command, the promise, you got their promise blessing.

So Naaman, dip in the water seven times and what's going to happen?

Your physical infirmity, leprosy will be cleansed.

Did the water do it?

No.

Otherwise there'd be leper colonies all over the Jordan river.

And it may be, it'd be cured to this day.

Right.

But it's not.

So obviously that's a good analogy and maybe a foreshadowing that the biblical writers intended, which is

whenever you're dipped or immersed fully.

I mean, when I mean dipped, I mean, go down to the water.

Like I dunk my Oreos, not like some people just half immersed.

Whenever you're buried, immersed, baptized, completely under the water, you're buried under the water

that is physical water, but you are being obedient to the promised, the promised blessing you'll receive, which is forgiveness of

sin.

So I liked that Mike said that.

Right.

So when you come up out of the water, if you said to somebody who was baptized, like they were in the new Testament, um, what saved

you?

Did, did the water save you?

You'd say, no, God saved me.

Well, when did God save you when you did what he promised?

Right.

There you go.

I thought baptism now saves you.

Yeah.

Well, see, here's, and this is the problem.

Like he said, like, this is a perfect picture of the old Testament, you know, the new Testament baptism.

Like he said, baptism doesn't mean naming, you know, if you ask name and who healed, how'd you get healed?

He'd say, well, God healed me.

How I have nothing to do with faith of believing God.

It was all about his obedience.

So look, here's, here's Naaman commander of the army of the King of Syria.

So he goes down, he has leprosy.

He goes to Elisha, the man of God or the King of Israel had torn his clothes.

So he goes see Elijah verse nine.

So Naaman came with his horses and chariots and stood at the door of Elisha's house.

Elisha sent a messenger to him saying, go and wash in the Jordan seven times and your flesh shall be restored

and you shall be clean.

But Naaman went away angry.

He was angry and he went away, right?

Saying, behold, I thought he would surely come out to me and stand and call upon the name of the Lord and wave his hand

over the place and cure the leper or not a Bama and far par the rivers of Damascus better than all the waters of

Israel because they hated Israel.

Could I not wash in them and be clean?

So he turned away.

He went in a rage.

He didn't believe in God.

He didn't believe the promise of God.

He did not believe the words of the prophet of God.

He didn't believe any of it.

He's like, this is ridiculous.

This is stupid.

I'm out.

And he left in a rage, but his servants came near and said to him, my father, it is a

great word.

The prophet has spoken to you.

Will you not do it?

Has he actually said you wash and be clean?

Like, so it sounds like just do, just do it.

I mean, what's it going to hurt?

I mean, you got leprosy, just do it.

What's it going to hurt?

So Naaman didn't go down into the water because he trusted God and his word and his promises.

That's not why he went in the water.

He went in the water to save his own hide.

So if Aaron wants to say this is the, this is their understanding of baptism, I would agree.

You're getting into the water to save your own hide.

And we can look and see how that developed over church history.

But this is why a lot of people are doing it.

Just, hey, if it works, it works.

Let's just try it out.

So he turned away, went and raised, so he did it.

So when he dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God, his flesh was restored like the flesh of a

little child and was clean.

So don't think you want to use Naaman.

There was absolutely no faith, no trust in God in that whole.

Situation.

Go ahead, Jeremiah.

Okay, so we got to be careful when you appeal to type and shadow and substance in the Old Testament about

what, what can we extrapolate and learn?

How can we discern what is written for our learning and to apply to us today?

Number one, I would say it's different in saying there's ceremonial rituals,

whether it be in Leviticus or numbers or in the Torah for people with

leprosy and things like that.

Okay, there's principles there.

And what principles can we glean from Naaman?

Well, for one, this ceremonial bath, this showing an act of humility,

did not justify him before God.

By the way, that's the whole point of my debate with Hysol.

So all you can glean from that is, yeah, God did say, do a command.

Would that be an act of humility?

Absolutely.

Well, putting your faith in the perfect Savior and not trusting in your own works, not trusting in any of the ceremonies you

participate in, but putting your trust in Jesus Christ, that is the most humble thing you

could possibly do is say, I can't add any of my works on the

table to make myself right before God.

So I'm all for taking principles, Trey, but people want to look at Noah building the

ark and say, well, he had to do that or he wouldn't have been saved from the waters of judgment.

I'm like, that is living faith being active, but that's not what justified him

before God.

And so some of these are just far -reaching.

I'm all for it because when we look at a lot of the faithful in the Old Testament, the just shall live by faith.

We're going to talk about this later, but someone who is justified by faith then works out their faith in sanctification.

That's why, Trey, and you can tell me your thoughts on this.

I define six terms in my opening statement because I've listened to these types of objections

over and over and over again.

What do people like Gallagher assume?

Well, obedience always entails your works, and they would just say doing

obedience is the works of God, not works of man.

Okay, well, let's define works.

Let's talk about the context in which we see that.

What is faith?

As we're going to see, Hysal takes a lot of liberty with the word faith regardless of what the

context says.

They all do.

You're going to see.

Aaron does the same thing.

Well, that's the thing.

That account of him dipping in the water seven times, about the only thing you can take from that

is, yes, God requires humility.

Now, like you said, men can do that to save their own hide.

We're in a time during the Old Covenant.

You've got to be careful with saying this is a foreshadowing of X because Roman Catholics, they actually point to

the Ark of the Covenant as a type of Mary because she and her womb carry

Jesus, so she must be holy like the Ark of the Covenant.

Why can you Protestants not see that?

Oh, well, Church of Christ are going to do that with 2 Kings, anything to bolster their

case.

Right, so there we're going.

To go to the next one.

Define your terms, Jeremiah, because you asked him to define terms.

You just kind of hit on it a little bit, but according to Aaron, you did not define your terms, so he's going to define some terms

for you.

I just want to know, you're going to go first on this one.

Let me know if you want me to pause it.

He talked about Mike's opening and said that Mike didn't define his terms and that Mike just begged the question.

You know, I got to say, I've watched a lot of debates, listened to a lot of debates, and I remember in the old debates,

what they would say is, you know, I'm going to define terms.

They'd say the Bible, and by the Bible, I mean the 66 books that we have in.

Okay, Jeremiah didn't define what Bible he was using, but come on, we all know what he means,

right?

Everyone watching.

Okay, so I'm just going to go.

Ahead and jump the gun on this.

No, it is begging the question.

When you don't ground your case, and when you start making some types of assumptions, then the

interlocutor, your opponent, is allowed to call you on that.

Just because if Mike, I'm sure I made a lot of assumptions all over the place, right?

The ones that I thought most people would be in agreement with me as I assumed something, I don't have to

define it.

So me and Mike, we were assuming that one another knew we were going to be appealing to

the 66 books of the Protestant canon, right?

Did we both assume that?

Yes, but we can high -five and say, that's fine.

Now, what Gallagher doesn't realize is, depending on the context, meaning who you're interacting

with, it is totally legitimate to call someone out on begging the question.

You cannot assume the 66 books of the Bible if you're debating a Roman

Catholic.

That's a time to make a case, because you both might say, the scripture says this, the scripture says that, but they might be

quoting from Sirach, like Mike Hysall did.

But my point is, depending on who you're talking to, when you're in a debate, Reformed Baptist, Church of Christ,

talking about baptism, obedience, and faith, guess what you don't get to do, Trey?

You don't get to beg the question.

You got to prove that one.

Well, here's the reason why,.

And this is why when I'm talking to them, I get them, well, we both do, get them to define terms.

What is the definition of faith?

What is the definition of justification?

What is the definition of baptism?

What do these words mean?

Because here's the deal, if we're supposed, we're both talking about faith, right?

I'm talking about faith, say Mike's talking about faith, or Aaron's talking about faith, you're talking about faith, we're talking about faith, but

we know they've changed the definition of faith.

They know they've changed the definition of faith, but the people who are listening to us talk, they don't know

that they've changed the definition of faith.

And this is why it says this right here, remind them of these things, this is 2 Timothy 2, 14,

and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the

hearers.

Because see, if the people don't know that somebody in here has changed the definition of words, they're going to get confused,

because they're going to hear the word faith, they're going to hear the word grace, but they don't know that the

terms have not been defined, right?

So do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who is, no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

So that's why you're asking to define terms, but he says you didn't do it either.

Let's see what he says, you ready?

Or you want to go ahead?

Let me tell you, what he's.

Going to do is, he did not like how I appealed and grounded faith, because it wouldn't be

the same way that he would.

And to me, you're welcome to object, but to say that I didn't define faith either,

even Gallagher, he wouldn't have said that in a debate, because obviously I took time to go

to the Greek word.

He's going to want to go to a different definition of faith, as we're going to see.

But I did more than just that.

I actually went to verses like Hebrews 11, 1, which gives us the definition of faith.

And it continues to give us the definition of faith later in verse six that says, this is a faith that doesn't just

know facts, but seeks God in faith, meaning trusting him with your whole

heart in the just shall live by faith.

That's the same context that Hebrews uses faith and the book of Romans.

So yeah, play Gallagher, because he essentially says, I don't define faith either.

I just tell people, go back and listen to the debate.

I spent a long time defining it.

There we go.

Watching this debate.

I'll say everyone, 99 of the people watching this understand when they start talking about the Bible and scripture, that they

mean the 66 books of the new Testament, excluding the Apocrypha, right?

So, you know, whenever you say, well, he didn't, you know, Mike didn't define his terms properly.

And I think the ones he mentioned, I tried to type as fast as I could, faith works, justification, sanctification, obey, and maybe

baptism.

Maybe those were the five, um, you know, not trying to be too critical, but like Jeremiah didn't really define it either.

For instance, Jeremiah brought up BDAG and said BDAG defines faith as trust.

And he only gave one definition.

He didn't give all the definitions that BDAG gives.

So I want to sort of show you something really quickly.

So this is how you use a lexicon, right?

So, you know, if I'm looking at my Bible, uh, and I believe you guys can see my screen.

So, you know, I'm looking up, uh, Hebrews 11, one in the new American standard.

Now faith is the substance.

I can right.

Click on that English word and click on Bible word study.

And if I were to click on that, it would bring up this page, right?

So what this does is it gives me the root of the Greek word.

And then these circle things, this is the lima, the different uses of that, um, cognates, I believe would be the word that people would use.

So then you come down here to the lima, right?

This is the lima.

It's the more specific form of the root.

So it's from the root, okay.

Which means to believe, but the lima here is, uh, pistis or pistis, right?

And let's see if my software will play it for me.

Okay.

Faith and trust.

Now these are different lexicons that I have, right?

There's a whole bunch that I have.

Right.

Um, but anyway, this is, uh, we're going to click on BDAG.

It's when we're referencing and it gives a lot of different definitions, faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment, assurance, oath, truth, proof,

pledge, trust, confidence, yada, yada, but listen, faith, the body of faith, the belief, or the teaching in Galatians

one 23, Paul uses the word faith.

He said, uh, I preach the faith that I once tried to destroy.

Right.

What was he trying to destroy the system of faith Christian.

So you see what he's, he wants to make faith always be the system of faith.

So he goes in there.

He's like, I'm just going to use the last definition of the word faith.

That means the whole system of faith and try to apply it everywhere.

It says faith that way I can get away from.

Firm trust, reliance upon God and Jesus Christ.

Right.

Did, did I see a comment where the church of Christ don't use dictionaries?

They just use the Bible.

And what's Gallagher doing here then?

Yeah.

Um, that was, uh, Carl Henry.

Let me find him again here.

I think that's your best friend.

I don't even remember Carl, but he just texted me that you did something.

He didn't like, he didn't like it when I called BDAG the Lutheran BDAG.

Yeah.

I sent it to you.

So, uh, I'm doing this too.

Did you know I'm pausing for dramatic effect?

They have to poison the well best way they can.

Why are you being so dramatic Trey?

I don't know.

I don't mean to be, but yeah.

What is this?

Look at this one.

Trey's reading random definition, Aaron quotes from Spurgeon.

I don't even know what that even.

Means, but let's just keep going with Aaron's quoting a Baptist.

What, what in the world?

Uh, here we go on that English word and click on Bible word study.

And if I were to click on that, it would bring up this page, right?

So what this people would use.

So it's from the root Pistuo.

Okay.

Which means to believe, but so is this Pistuo also mean baptized?

Because I have to go back and look at Pistis, but I don't remember that in.

Any of the definitions.

Yeah.

So I'm going to hear is Pistis or Pistis, right.

And let's see if my software will play it for me.

Pistis, Pistis.

Okay.

Faith and trust.

Now these are different lexicons that I have, right?

There's a whole bunch that I have.

Right.

Um, but anyway, this is, uh, we're going to click on B dag.

It's when we're referencing and it gives a lot of different definitions, faithfulness, reliability, fidelity, commitment, assurance, oath, truth, proof,

pledge, trust, confidence, yada, yada, but listen, faith, the body of faith, the belief or.

In Galatians one 23, Paul uses the word faith.

He said, uh, I preached the faith that I once tried to destroy.

Right.

What was he trying to destroy the system of faith, Christianity, right?

So you have different uses.

Yeah.

The faith, the faith he was preaching the faith, right?

So here's one for Carl.

Here's Carl again.

Carl's getting a lot of attention here.

Oh, Hey, how did we miss that?

That one was the attribute of faith and not the definition.

Well, cause here's Carl again.

Oh, don't expose us like that.

Hebrews six is the definition of faith.

I don't think that's accurate at all.

Please pull up Hebrews 11.

Let's show people what Carl's trying to do.

Cause remember I've had you on before and I try to tell people how the church guys slowly and ever

craft craftily tried to shoehorn in works.

They don't want to use the word works.

It usually works in the word obedience.

Yeah.

Now faith is,.

That's going to tell you what it is.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for the conviction of things not seen for by it.

What's the it faith.

The people of old received their commendation, their approval.

Okay.

Well spoken of to be approved of commendation.

How did they receive their approval by it?

What's the it faith?

What is faith?

The assurance of things hoped for conviction of things not seen by faith.

This right here.

We understand that the universe was created by the word of God so that what is seen was not made out of things that are

visible.

So you see the universe, you know, the universe didn't create itself.

So you see that must be God who created this stuff.

So then it goes into this stuff of the things that they did.

And if you can see the things they did, you must know it came from something unseen, which would be faith.

Their faith produced this because saving faith produces obedience.

He says, verse six is the definition of faith without faith.

It is impossible to please him for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who

seek him.

So that's the definition of that.

That's what he was saying.

That's the definition of faith according to Carl Henry.

And what I want to.

Emphasize is the word assurance means firm trust.

You know what I mean?

And then that that's paralleled with conviction or evidence if you got the good old King James.

And this is an inward assurance that produces a changed life.

And so it's always inward.

It's always of the heart.

Verse six, without this inward, firm trust, it's impossible to please God for whoever would

draw near.

How?

By faith.

You must believe, not just knowing facts, but you must believe that God

rewards those who seek him.

How?

In faith.

And then we get example after example.

The just shall live by faith.

By faith, those who are just demonstrate their lives to the glory of God in

their obedient works.

Trey, she didn't know.

Fishbone.

There it is, my friend.

Hey, Carl Henry, don't mean that.

It don't mean that.

This is this is this height, right?

This was actually for Carl Henry over here.

In the back.

That was for Carl.

But I don't think he's going to believe it.

But anyway.

So what do you think about that?

How'd that go?

Good start.

We do have some questions.

I don't know if you want to backtrack a little bit.

I want to honor the side chats on both.

Casey Taylor's up in here and Nikki tight pants.

You may have to introduce me to some of these cats.

OK, so somebody said, I think it's Tracy Lewis on Facebook said, I got a question.

All right, Tracy, let's hear your question.

What's the question?

Why did you jump from passage to other passages instead of focusing on a passage

and exegesis of that passage?

Mike was laser focused.

You weren't.

Who was that?

Who was that?

This was on Facebook a little bit while back.

But Trey, I got I got rebuked for looking at multiple passages and not one.

Is that a fair.

Analysis of what I did?

That you went from passage to passage.

I think you went to passages to show that you're justified by faith and that works do not justify you.

You know, it's funny, too.

I did exegete a passage.

I think you went to Romans four.

You actually do that.

I think you went to Luke 18.

But this is the thing I read.

I can't wait to share what he says about Luke 18.

I referenced Romans four because there's a few key phrases there that our works don't justify us

before God.

Then we see a contrast that we're justified by faith and not by works.

And he emphasizes that over and over that our justification is judicial, forensic, vertical, and it's by

faith apart from work.

That's why all I did was read Romans four because it speaks for itself.

But, Trey, what I exegeted, and I don't know if Tracy watched the debate or not, but I exegeted

Luke 18 with the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.

Oh, Jeremiah's not talking about baptism.

Well, what does baptism mean?

I already defined that.

And I referenced three verses in a row of saying, if I grant that all these are the ceremonial right in the water, then it

signifies these spiritual realities.

And I'd like to encourage Tracy, go listen to my rebuttal because I only responded to the

verses that Hysal brought up in the debate.

I remember we went to the Great Commission.

He begged the question there.

He didn't define his terms.

We agreed on a lot.

And his assumptions I called out because nowhere in the Great Commission says when the point a person is justified,

you're just assuming what a disciple means.

And you're looking at the word go, baptize, and to teach them to.

Yeah, I agree with all that.

But you got to parse that out.

You got to explain what that means.

Mike didn't do that, but he did reference it.

He spent a long time.

His one string banjo was Acts 238.

So guess what the majority of my rebuttal time was?

Acts 238.

And I even started when they were cut to the heart.

I went all the way down to verse where we read that they were added to the church.

They received the word, which that's verse 41, I believe, and they were baptized, which is indicative of

those that received the word.

And that's the whole point is works are indicative of someone.

Who is justified by faith.

There you go.

So the next one is Galatians where he uses system of faith everywhere in

Galatians and he skips.

He reads Galatians 3 verse 1, but he doesn't want anybody to see the rest of that middle section of chapter three, where it

says you receive the Holy Spirit by faith, by hearing with faith, by hearing with faith, not the system of faith.

But anyway, that's like a nine minute clip.

We're going to skip that.

I want everybody to see this Luke 18.

This is crazy.

Are you ready for this one?

Everybody.

Who's ready for a breakdown?

What up, Nicky Tightpants?

Josh Ham's in here?

Where are you at, Josh Ham?

Did you say tight pants?

Yeah, Nicky Tightpants.

Josh Ham's in here somewhere.

All right, here we go.

Luke 18.

Are you ready for this?

This is a whole nother level.

Here we go.

Quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector. Both of those men were saved.

They were Jews.

You go first.

That dude said, wait, we're going to let everybody hear that again.

Ready?

Quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector.

Both of those men were saved.

They were Jews.

They were in the temple.

Sorry, this is a dramatic pause.

This is Nicky Tightpants.

Did you hear that?

Quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector.

Both of those men were saved.

They were Jews.

They were in the temple.

So your point to the Pharisee and

the wretched sinful man who went away justified, what you didn't know is they were both

justified because they were both Jews.

You didn't know that, Jeremiah?

I totally misunderstood that parable.

Every Jew is a Christian.

Seriously, this is what he says.

Every Jew.

If you're born a Jew,.

You are in a right relationship with God.

They were both already in a relationship with God.

Now, the Pharisee, very possibly, I would assume he's a Jew.

So the old covenant, you were born into the relationship with God.

Now, listen.

Did you really believe that for 18 years?

No, no.

This is one that he is pulling it out of you know, where, because that is, I don't know any

church of Christ person who would ever even say that.

You know what I'm saying?

But like, this is what he will do.

Cause I mean,.

He's got a lot of people following.

Hey, Haisal would not say that.

Haisal wouldn't say that.

Of course he wouldn't.

Cause he, I think Haisal is a little bit more honest than, than this guy to say that.

I mean, he just knows people are going to believe whatever he says.

I mean, because that is ridiculous to say that they're both.

And if you were a Jew, you were born into a covenant relationship with God.

Let me tell you something, Aaron, I don't care if you're a Jew.

I don't care if you're a Gentile.

I don't care if you're a Martian.

If you're born, you are in a relationship with God.

You're either got a really good relationship with God.

You've got a really bad one.

One way or the other.

Every person in the world has a relationship with God.

But to say that the Pharisee and they're saved.

Are you kidding me?

Like, come on, dude.

Come on, man.

Paul Day.

Did you hear that?

Yeah.

I think you were taught.

That.

Paul says that's what he was taught.

I want to echo.

I was never, I will say this.

I was never taught that.

Thank goodness.

That was because I think that at least we think a little.

Bit, we'd be like, no, that's crazy.

Go ahead.

Well, here, here's the problem.

Gallagher doesn't understand covenant theology.

He doesn't understand what a covenant means.

Were the children of Israel born in a kind of covenant with God?

Absolutely.

It was not a covenant of salvation.

It was a covenant of works.

It was a covenant that was teaching them that they can't save themselves.

And so it's really unfortunate that Gallagher believes that if you're born, I mean, this is, this was

what the Pharisees and John eight were telling Jesus that we're born of

Abraham, right?

And according to Gallagher and the Jews of those Pharisees is we're saved by being of Abraham

and John, whether it was John the Baptist or in Jesus, but talking about how it doesn't matter for your sons of

Abraham by physical birth, God could raise up sons of Abraham from these stones.

That doesn't mean Jack.

Um, he says, uh, your father's the devil, you know,

and I think Gallagher.

Would say, well, actually no, they were saved under the old covenant.

Abraham's our father.

Jesus said, if you were Abraham's children, you'd be doing the works Abraham did.

And they love that part, right?

But now you seek to kill me.

A man who's told you the truth.

I heard from God, this is not what Abraham did.

You were doing the works your father did.

And he says, we're not born of sexual morality.

We have one father, even God.

And Jesus said to them, if God were your father, you would love me for, I came from God and I'm, I'm here.

I came not of my own accord.

He sent me.

Why do you not understand what I say?

It's because you cannot bear to hear my words.

You were of your father, the devil and your will.

You want to hear what free will is your will is to do your father's desire.

That's your will.

And he was a murderer from the beginning.

He goes on to tell him that you were your father, the devil.

I mean,.

Be sure and put Carl.

I want to see how far Carl is going to try to defend Gallagher.

You see right here where he says here, he says, you're not born a Jew.

Right.

So he either doesn't understand like Gallagher or he's going to try to defend Gallagher and it's going to be really, really

hard.

We're not saying you're not born a Jew, but listen, what Gallagher said, he said they were born in a

salvific relationship with God.

Yes.

The second temple Jews, they taught that and believed it and were rebuked by John the Baptist, Jesus.

And I actually want to pull up what the apostle Paul said in Romans chapter two,.

If we can, the Nikki tight pants, his wife, Emily, she's 1 saved when she was born

because she's 1

Jewish.

I got my top pants on.

Have you seen that SNL skit?

So if you could pull up Romans three or Romans two verses 28 and 29.

So I want Carl to pay careful attention.

People were born Jewish, but that doesn't mean they were born in a salvific relationship

with God.

Understand the new covenant is better than the old covenant in every

way.

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly.

Oh wait, unless you were born a Jew, according to Gallagher and Carl, no, no, born a Jew outwardly meant you're

saved and you're in a covenant with covenant relationship with God.

And as Trey said, yeah, you are in a covenant of condemnation with God as a rebel of God

by birth.

But he goes on to say, nor is circumcision outward and physical.

Well, I thought that was what the Jews were commanded to do.

Trey, did they have to obey to circum to be circumcised?

They had to obey that commandment.

Uh, so they weren't saved when they did that?

No, that's not what saved them.

Verse 29, but a Jew is one inwardly.

That doesn't happen at birth.

That is by faith.

The true Israel, true Israel, true Jew is one inwardly and circumcision

is a matter of the things you do, Trey, that your obedience, no,

the heart by the spirit, not by the letter, not by the law, but look at your praise

is not from him.

You want to know if he's.

Going to double down, right?

Do it.

Here we go.

That's not the context Aaron was talking about.

Tell us.

Okay.

Carl, defend Gallagher, defend your boy a little bit.

What was he talking about?

What was he talking about?

Hey, Carl, we asked Aaron to come on here as well.

So, because I would love to ask him, what in the world are you talking about here in Gallagher?

And I would like to send Gallagher a message that's saying, Hey, what are you going to debate.

Jeremiah?

Yeah.

He's not going to debate Jeremiah.

I can't wait to talk about mine with him here in a minute when he brings up, but Carl, please tell us what the context was.

Cause just to be fair,.

Let's just hear again what he says.

Let's just make sure John six 44 and 40 quickly, the Luke, Luke 18, the Pharisee and the tax collector.

Um, both of those men were saved.

They were Jews.

They were in the temple.

So they were both already in a relationship with God.

It sounds like the context of this that he's referring to is Luke 18.

They were both saved because they both went to the temple because they were both Jews

and you're born in that relationship with God as a Jew.

He spent thousands of hours with you, Trey.

No, he didn't spend thousands of hours.

And secondly, who cares?

That doesn't mean he's.

Interpreting this right.

The Pharisee.

Very possibly.

Um, I would assume he's a Jew.

So the old covenant, you were born into the relationship with God.

John six, 44 and 45.

Talks about this.

Um, okay, here we go, Carl.

Ready?

Ready?

John six, 44 and 45 talks about.

This.

John's 44.

I listened to a debate recently on this and I know it don't mean that it don't.

Mean that no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day.

It is written in the prophets and they will all be taught by God.

So we got to ask ourselves, who's the, they, there will all be taught by God.

Everyone who has heard and learned from the father comes to me.

So that's John six, 44 and 45.

So is, is he saying that every Jew, because they've heard from God and some, you know, just,

just they heard it in their ear.

Therefore they all came to Jesus.

I don't think so.

I think we can read right above this in the section that these Jewish people didn't come to Jesus.

Not all of them did.

You know who he's he's talking about?

All the father gives me, all the father gives me will come to me.

And the here's this part that the church Christ really don't like is that he came to do the father's will and the father's will

is he lose none that the father gave him that he raises them up on the last day.

One of them don't mean that.

Yeah.

Well, so that's, if that's, that's his context.

And according to him, John six, 44 and 45 explains that you

can see it very.

Clearly.

Right.

Carl said, we don't believe that.

I'm still confused.

Help us understand Gallagher.

The different new covenant's different.

The old covenant, you were born into the covenant.

You were a physical Jew.

The new covenant you're born spiritually.

You're born again of water and spirit.

That's John three, three through five.

You enter into the new covenant.

When.

You second.

So gallery is saying that, and we agree you're born into the old covenant.

That doesn't mean you're saved.

This is a covenant of works.

This is a covenant of condemnation.

Paul calls it the ministry of death.

Gallagher means they are born in the covenant in a saving relationship with God.

That is wrong.

Salvation has always been by grace through faith in the full

finished work of the savior to come for old Testament saints.

And we live in light of that.

And you know what that means that the new covenant has always been the covenant of

salvations.

The old Testament saints were saved by the new covenant.

They were putting their faith in the covenant that was promised that was to come that has a

perfect.

Mediator in Jesus Christ.

Right?

No, just a little to show you this, but it's not as though the word of God has failed for not all who are descended from

Israel belong to Israel.

So not everybody who is born descended from Israel belongs to

Israel.

So I try, I try.

It don't mean I don't.

Mean that.

I know, but yeah.

Uh, the car leave.

I hope not.

He has some more defending of.

Gallagher.

Come on, Carl.

You got this.

All right.

Back to it.

Here we go.

When you're baptized,.

Right?

There's a lot of parallels that you can really put together and it's beautiful when you don't fight against the text.

Right?

Um, so you were born into the old covenant, right?

The new covenant, you're born spiritually.

Old Testament was physical.

New Testament was spiritual.

So the idea about Luke 18, uh, it almost is really like ad hominem because it's like argument against the man.

Essentially what Jeremiah is saying is if you think you have to be baptized to be saved, you're just like the Pharisee who

trusts in yourself, which is not really accurate.

Um, when I was baptized, um, I remember sitting on the baptistry steps.

Before and after.

Uh, I would like to know which time Aaron, cause you got baptized a couple of

times, which when I asked him in his debate or my discussion, his debate,

he said he only did it once, but then somebody sent me a video is a video of him saying that he was

baptized again.

So at what time, which one were you sitting on the steps like doing that?

Saying, Lord, I'm not, I know that I could never do anything good enough.

Right.

We got something here from Carl.

He says, there it is.

I don't know what exactly what he's.

Talking about.

Well, he's just quoting the new covenant promise in Jeremiah.

Oh yeah.

God will write his law on their hearts and he will know them the least to the greatest.

And check this out, Trey, that's a new covenant.

All of their sin, all of their sin will be forgiven.

Not just your past 10.

Yeah.

So there it is getting closer.

And by the way, that's not the argument.

I will put my law within them and I will write it on their hearts and I will be their God.

They shall be my people.

No longer shall each teach his neighbor, his brother saying no, the Lord for they shall all know me from the least to the greatest declares the Lord for

I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin.

No more.

That's a, yep.

That's the new covenant.

That's let me explain something.

Let me explain.

Something, Carl.

That is the only covenant that has saved.

That is the, the promise of the new covenant give being brought into a greater light.

That is a further explanation of Genesis 3 15.

That is the promise that saved old Testament saints.

The promise of the new covenant.

This is why Gallagher and Carl, please hear me.

This is why Gallagher is wrong.

Yes, you were born as a Jew under the old covenant and you were not in a saving

relationship.

You were not born already justified before God.

No, you entered in to the promise of the new covenant by faith.

That's what Romans four is all about.

That's what the whole book of Galatians is all about.

And this is what.

He's saying.

Aaron explained physical and spiritual.

No, no, he didn't.

No, he didn't.

No, he did not.

He's, he was very clear on what he said.

Now we can go back and show you again if you want,.

But here we go.

Is there anything left to receive the forgiveness of sins?

You know, Luke 17 10, that one that when we do all that, which we have been given to do, we're still unworthy

servants,.

I'll pause that because Haisal brought this out.

And I just want to let everyone know, why is it that we are unprofitable servants?

Because of what we did in our works of obedience?

No, it's because the Jesha live by faith, right?

We're living our life to the glory of God.

We did not earn our justification.

We were justified by amazing grace.

And I want to let everybody know God's grace isn't just necessary.

That's Roman Catholicism.

Well, grace is necessary, right?

You need the grace of what Jesus on the cross.

You know what the apostle Paul said in second Corinthians 12?

No, God's grace is sufficient, right?

God's grace is not just sufficient in our sanctification, but it's sufficient.

God's grace alone is what ultimately is going to justify us because that grace tray

effectually gives us a heart of faith.

Don't take my word for it.

That's what Ephesians 2, 8, and 9, and then 10, right?

We are created.

Unto good works, once again, in our sanctification.

Oh, here we go.

Here it is. There it is.

He spent.

30 minutes on Luke 18.

You boys are playing like 90 seconds.

You know, if we would have played 18 minutes, oh, you didn't play the whole thing.

Yeah.

You took them out of context.

Oh, you played 20,.

You played 28 minutes.

You didn't listen to the last.

Did you say Mike Haisal's on here?

Are you watching?

My Facebook said that Haisal's watching, so I just let people know.

Just get Haisal to answer, because I guarantee you, Haisal would not say that the Pharisee was saved.

Nobody would.

Haisal, please, please tell us.

Except Carl and Aaron.

Carl.

And Carl was saying, just because Aaron, but what I said earlier, he knows that people are going to back him no matter what,

because it's defending the system.

You know what I'm saying?

It's defending the system.

That's it.

That's all they care about.

You know, and he knows that there's going to be Carl's out there that would just agree.

Yeah.

Pharisee saved.

He was born Jew.

He's already saved.

Already saved.

Here we go.

Let's keep going with this.

Finish this one up.

This one's almost.

Done here.

Doing what we ought to do.

So it's really ad hominem.

Nobody that I know was baptized thinking I'm just, I'm going to be baptized.

I'm going to knock on the gates of heaven.

All right, Peter, let me in.

I was baptized.

You owe it to me.

Right.

So I don't agree with that.

All right.

Of course they don't agree with that.

Thank you, Casey Taylor.

Love you, bro.

Yeah.

Nobody, nobody's going to actually say those words.

Everybody's going to honor them with his, with their lips.

Right.

And so nobody's going to say, yeah, you owe me salvation.

You can't say that you have to speak the Christian language.

You've got to say, oh no.

You know, like Naaman.

Well, of course God saved me, but when did he save me?

When I obeyed.

When I did X, Y, or Z had nothing to do with faith whatsoever.

So here we go.

Let me teach you.

Actually, I'm not going to teach you, Jeremiah.

You need to learn how to read the Bible.

Are you.

Ready?

Okay.

I'm ready to learn.

So let's go through everything you said about Luke 18.

I agree.

Everything you said about Acts 2, the argument is just being a picture.

It's symbolic.

This is one of the best ways you can tell if the doctrine is false.

So you basically, the more you study the Bible, you will basically see, oh, well, okay.

If it means what you say, it means in this verse, then you have a big problem over here because that won't work.

So the easiest thing that I would say is the biggest, the easiest way to show is many easy ways, but let me show you the easiest

way.

If you look into, if you look into, if you look into, if you look into, if you show that Jeremiah's argument is wrong.

Here you go.

You ready?

I know it's coming.

Jeremiah is saying is that you're saved before you're baptized.

I mean, that's essentially it, right?

That's to make it.

So you're saved whenever you have faith.

Um, he's even saying, uh, you know, as soon as you believe in God, regeneration precedes faith, which is what

he hasn't said that in this debate, but I know that's what he believes.

Um, as soon as you believe that means you can only believe because God already regenerated you.

Therefore you're saved.

Well, let's say acts chapter two, you could explain that verse away.

You can't explain X 2216.

I've seen.

Yes, we can.

And I.

Cannot wait to do it again.

Okay.

Let's just see if he says anything else.

And Jeremiah, uh, together.

On the same show, the cultist show, they tried to basically say the same thing.

I debated Trey, uh, on this, on multiple things, total depravity once saved, always

saved.

And we had four debates on baptism, salvation, faith alone, et cetera.

You can.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, we did.

But let me just.

Tell everybody real quick, before we get any further in this, when Aaron called me, he called me up one day, he said, Hey, would you like to

do some debates or know some, have some conversations?

He said, would you like to have some conversations on some topics?

And I said, yeah, I'd love to have conversations on these things.

He said, yeah, I want, I said, what do you want to talk about?

He said, well, baptism, faith alone.

And then the five points of Calvinism, I said, yeah, I'll do that when you want to do it.

And he's like, well, would you like to know the things that I might say or bring up?

I said, no, I pretty much know him.

You want to do it now?

He's like, no.

Well, I said, when do you want to do it?

He said, how about tomorrow?

I said, okay.

And I said, but look, here's the deal.

I'm going to record it and I'll send you the footage after I record it.

Cause I don't, I don't believe that you're a Christian.

And so I don't know if I can trust you with that because a lot of people cut and slice my stuff up and they'll play 10 seconds TT

over and over on loop.

And so, and so I said, I'll send you the whole thing.

So we do it.

And our first one was a conversation.

And then after that it became, Hey, let's do, you know, debate style, five minutes and two minutes and opening statements, closing.

I was like, yeah, whatever.

Like total prepared zero for any of it.

I would just sit down many times.

I was out doing stuff and I'd have to run to the office and turn it on.

I'm breathing home.

Are you ready?

He's like, yeah.

And I mean, he's like reading all this stuff.

I'm just like winging it, you know?

But the only thing is, so he calls a debate.

I call it, I was just having a conversation, could care less.

Secondly, though, he never finished it though, you know, and I even called him out on the second one.

I think the second conversation slash debate we had, I said, are you going to go the distance?

Are you really going to do total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance and saying, oh yeah,

he didn't, he quit.

I don't know why.

I think I do know why, but he didn't want to go the distance.

So there was that.

It was more of a conversation from my end, but you can see him reading the whole time when he's doing it, you know, but I want

him to, cause see Jeremiah has a lot of time where he can prepare for like formal debates.

He loves it.

I'm more of a, hey, let's sit on the couch and study, but he's like a formal debater.

But, and I even told Aaron, I said, look, you want to debate Jeremiah?

He's like, I don't know.

And I said, no, he'll come to your, he'll come to your church.

I'm saying like, he'll come, like his game travels.

He's like a professional, he's like a professional golfer.

You know, he doesn't have to play his home course.

Like he'll go there.

And he's like, I don't know.

Like he don't want none of the dog,.

Which hopefully we can schedule it.

We'll schedule it out whenever he wants.

We'll get it.

I promise you, we'll get this thing on cultish.

We'll go to Arizona, whatever we got to do, or we'll go to the GBN, whatever network

and get you on there.

And then you can prepare and get ready and do all that study and stuff that you do with it of how to ask.

He doesn't understand that.

I will lock myself in a dungeon and figure out how he thinks.

Yeah.

Guess what I do?

I'm like running here, running there.

I'll just sit down.

I'm like, what you got?

Act 238, Act 2216.

Easy.

Let's go.

So anyway, back to this.

Watch this for yourself and determine how you think, which position you agree with.

But Acts.

2216. I will say one of a close friend of his left the church of

Christ from those debates, which was awesome.

And we've had a lot of good stuff from all of our stuff, seven, eight.

Preachers now.

Thank God.

I wanted to, you know, we mentioned old TT.

So Travis Thomas, I don't mind to us, you know, for us to drop his name to me, Travis is harmless and

he's pretty entertaining.

I will give him that.

He is.

He is going to be interviewing.

Do you know who all TT is interviewing this coming Sunday night?

Derek Healy.

I wonder how old TT figured out that he left the

church of Christ.

I wonder where he saw that.

Oh, look at this.

Look what I get at Carl Henry's house.

Story time with Trey.

Trey, you do tell the best stories, man.

I take that as a compliment.

Oh, I do.

From Carl, I take that as a thank you, Carl.

Thank you, Carl.

I live in your head rent free.

Thank you.

Yeah, go ahead.

So, yeah, he's interviewing Derek Healy.

Yep.

This Sunday.

And I got a chance to talk with Derek, been praying for him and just saying, get ready to get on the

highlight reel afterwards.

And he's done it to the rest of us, wear it as a badge of honor, told him what questions, no doubt that

Travis will talk to him about.

So y 'all keep Derek in prayer, just that he would be kind, loving, even through some

of the nonsense that tends to happen on that platform.

But yeah, that's coming up this Sunday.

Look at the third.

She has a question.

Does TT stand for Turtle Turtle?

Turtle Club.

That's the Turtle Book.

We're gonna be doing a Turtle Book Club review later.

So let's go back to what he was saying here before Carl got me all at his dinner table

telling story times with Trey.

I don't know if you can read this next one, but he made me laugh.

What do you say?

Carl.

We got a little, we got a lot.

Why did I stop drinking?

I don't know, Carl.

Why did you stop drinking?

I have no idea, Carl.

It's a weird question.

You had me laughing on that one.

That was a good one.

All right.

So where, how do you read the Bible?

Acts 20 to 16.

We don't have an explanation.

I think it's great because Paul is the one who writes most of these New Testament epistles.

1st and 2nd Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, and

probably Hebrews.

James, he didn't write.

He didn't write Hebrews.

I don't think he might have.

I don't have any proof of that.

All those epistles Paul wrote, Paul did not teach them to become a Christian in a different way than he did.

Unless you're, you know, a dispensational person, believes that there's a different gospel or different faith

than the Gentiles, which is wrong.

So anyway, I say that to say Paul, the way he taught people to become Christians is the same way he became a Christian.

And Paul in Acts 9 meets Jesus, asks Jesus, what must I do?

Jesus, ironically, didn't say nothing.

I paid it all on the cross.

He said, what he said, go to the city and be told what you must do, what you have to do.

Jeremiah says, nothing you have to do.

Jesus said something you must do.

He goes to the city.

He's there.

Acts 9, 9 through 11.

He's fasting, not eating or drinking.

And he's praying for three days, right?

Finally, when Ananias comes to him, Ananias miraculously heals him to show that he's inspired.

And Ananias tells him in Acts 22, 16, why are you waiting?

Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Now, if Jeremiah is, if the shoe fits, right?

If the glass slipper fits and Jeremiah's doctrine is true, then you have a big problem in Acts 22,

because Paul has already believed he's already been repentant.

He's had a change of life.

He's been fasting and praying for three days.

And yet an inspired man, Ananias, and not only Ananias is inspired, in Acts 22,

Paul is retelling his own story.

So Paul, who's now inspired, he's been working.

Oh, goodness.

So that's enough of that.

And we're going to break it down for you, but we're going to come back to True North's questions.

She says, I'm no longer in the church of Christ.

Thank you for your help.

And she's wanting to know about, you know, because she's probably fearful of her sins, right?

All of her sins being forgiven.

And it's a fearful thing in the church of Christ.

That's why they don't know if I'm saving.

I think I'm saving.

I don't know if I saved.

I get re -baptized and don't know enough to understand enough.

And it's a miserable thing.

So True North, we want to take care of that question for you.

But I want to answer Acts 22 real quick for Aaron again.

And when we did this in our talks, I had quite a bit of people reach out

of, they said, this is the one that really made them start questioning everything.

And so let's do it again, because the first time Aaron ever reached out to me, I was at a

hardware store.

And he said, this is the one verse he can't get around.

This one, rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

Well, you know, he's going to say that calling on his name means, right,

that's talking about baptism.

That means get baptized, right?

So, but we know in Genesis 4, 26, right here, Seth, also a son was born and he called his name Enosh.

And at that time, people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

Does that mean they got baptized back then, all the way back in Genesis chapter 4, verse 26?

No.

So just to break this down really quick, like you mentioned, it's in Acts 9, 22, 26,

Galatians 1, the conversions of Paul.

So here, I just want to go back to 9.

All right, let's go back to Acts 9.

I want everybody to see this and really pay attention, especially Carl, okay?

Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?

Right?

He said, who are you, Lord?

And he said, I'm Jesus of whom you're persecuting.

Rise and enter the city and you will be told what you were to do.

The men who were traveling, Mr. Speechless hearing the voice, but the Encino one, Saul rose from the ground, although his

eyes were open, he saw nothing.

So they led him by the hand and brought him to Damascus.

For three days he was without sight, neither ate nor drank.

Now there was a disciple of Damascus named Ananias.

And the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias.

And he said, here I am, Lord.

The Lord said to him, rise and go to a street called Straight at the house of Judas.

Look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying.

And he has seen a vision of a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, that he might regain his sight.

So here's a little note thing I have here.

So this is what I asked everybody here.

Is it fair to say that Jesus has already appeared to Paul?

And so Saul's his Hebrew name, Paul's his Greek name.

It's not that his name changed when he was converted.

It's Hebrew name and a Greek name.

But regardless, is it fair to say that Paul has already received this vision from Christ?

He's already manifested himself to him, right?

Right.

Is it fair to say by looking right here, where Jesus calls out to Ananias and says, rise and

go to the street called Straight.

He says, there's a man named Saul there.

He's praying to me.

And he's seen in a vision, you, Ananias, coming in and laying his hands on him, so he can regain his sight.

Is it fair to say that Saul or Paul, whatever you want to call him, is praying to Jesus Christ, who is God.

And Jesus Christ, who is God, is hearing his prayers and answering his prayers, letting him know that I'm going

to send someone to heal you.

Is it fair to say that's true?

Aaron said yes.

And anybody who's reading the text would have to say yes.

But the question is this right here.

John 9 31 says, we know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a

worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

Now, this doesn't mean that God doesn't hear people all over the world.

He knows everything.

He's saying in this intimate way, does he, does he hear him like you hear your children over all the other chatter in the world?

This is what he's talking about.

So how does this guy say that?

We know, we know what?

That God doesn't listen to sinners, but if anyone's a worshiper of God and does his will, God does listen to him.

How do they know that?

How does these Jewish people know that?

Well, I would say from the Old Testament, right?

So in Proverbs 15 8, it says this right here.

Let me just make this a little bit bigger for you, so you can see it.

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, but the prayer of the upright is

his delight.

So he hears the prayer of the upright.

So is Paul upright in the eyes of God at this point, or is he not?

Is he still in his sins and still unregenerate away from him?

Let's go to verse 29.

How did we know?

And John, these people said that we know that God doesn't listen but to worshipers of God.

He listens to them, those who love God, right?

Look at verse 29.

The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayers of the righteous.

Wow.

So does this contradict what is happening with Paul?

Is Paul seen as righteous or is he seen as wicked at this moment as he's praying to Jesus?

Jesus is hearing his prayers and answering his prayers.

And it says here, the Lord's far from the wicked, but he hears the prayers of the righteous.

I think you would have to say that he is viewed as righteous.

So here in Psalm 66, it says this right here in verses 18 and 19.

If I had a cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.

But truly God has listened.

He has attended to the voice of my prayer.

So we see that Paul does not cherish iniquity in his heart.

He is repentant.

His faith is in God.

God is hearing his prayers and answering his prayers.

Isaiah 59 .2 says, your iniquities have hidden, have made a separation between

you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear you.

So let me ask you this.

Is God hearing the prayers of Paul?

Yes.

Therefore his sins have not created a space from him.

Like they're one now.

He is at one with God.

He is viewed as righteous with God.

Why?

Because faith.

He has faith in Jesus Christ.

He trusts him.

And so now his sins have not hidden his face from him.

And now he hears his prayers.

Do you see that?

Does that make sense?

It's got to make sense.

Absolutely.

Or you just reject it because you don't like it.

But then you can just break down the whole verse of 22 .16.

But I'll let you have some time here, Jeremiah.

Yeah.

Before we go back to Acts 22 .16, go to Hebrews 13 verse 15.

Because your best friend Carl says, calling on his name is not a mental thought or prayer.

Now, I don't know if he's calling mental thought prayer.

I would say prayer is not just having thoughts floating around your head.

Prayer is indicative of a heart of faith that is giving

praise to God, acknowledge him, extolling his name.

Jesus talks about hallowed be your name, giving God honor and glory.

And so when we talk about the word confessing or calling on his name, you rightly pointed out this is not new to the

New Testament, right?

The prophet Joel even talks about whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

And that is a further clarification of what Genesis chapter 4 was talking about.

And so I just want to tell people, Hebrews 13 .15, this is a really good verse that puts this

word confessing or acknowledging.

This is something so much deeper than just having certain thoughts floating around in your head or things like that

or doing external sacrifices.

No, this is talking about the heart, and then it's going to manifest with what you say and how you live your

life.

So that verse right there in 15 says, through him, our perfect high priest, King Jesus, then let us

continually offer up a sacrifice, not of a lamb, not of a scapegoat, but of

praise to God.

That is the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.

So this has to be coming from a changed heart.

That's the whole argument of Paul in Romans chapter 10, 9 through 13, I believe, for with the

heart, one that believes is justified.

Now, if a person were to see that happening to a person or if a person was recalling that experience,

well, they're going to call upon the name of the Lord.

They're going to cry out in prayer.

Prayer is not merely saying the right words.

Prayer is indicative of a heart of faith.

You can be a mute person, Trey.

Did you know this?

And you can still pray to God.

When we read, confess with the mouth that Jesus is Lord, this isn't saying, well, if you're not able to

speak properly, then it don't mean that.

You know what I mean?

It's because confessing Jesus is Lord is a heart of faith.

So yeah, maybe now with that going to Acts 22, 16 is a good place.

To talk about.

All right.

So just this sentence right here, you know, it has to be spiritual.

It cannot be literal.

Plus right here, this is in the middle voice, meaning that the grammatical voice that signifies the subject of the verb

is being affected by its own action or is acting upon itself.

So is Paul, rise and be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

He's causing that.

He's causing the sins to wash away.

He's calling the baptism.

He's doing it all.

Like you would have to say no.

Aaron would say no to that, but he'd have to argue with the, just the way the structure of the sentence is written.

And, but still again, middle voice here, wash away sins.

Here it is in BDAG.

It is something away, washing away something from oneself, wash oneself, used an imagery of purification.

It's again, it's a visual.

That's what baptism is.

It gives, it's a, it's a picture of the true spiritual reality that's happening.

It's a visual.

So you can see visually what is truly taking place spiritually.

Go ahead.

Troy, you're just begging the question, man.

That's what Gallagher would tell you.

And this right here is so important to why you must define what

baptism means.

Now, if we can agree that it's a ceremony, if we can agree that it's a purification, right.

And you know, it's, I've even thought about this tray.

If someone said, well, I don't see anywhere in the baptism that uses the word ceremony.

If we were to go to John three, we don't have to.

But later it talks about the baptism of John, which caused many people to dispute and talk about

purification laws or purification rights.

And all of that means is there is a rich old Testament history of what it means to be fully

bathed as rights that are given to have spiritual cleansing.

You know what I mean?

So this is why we have to define our terms.

This is why in the context of a reformed Baptist and a church of Christ, you can't beg the

question.

You have to make a case what you, and this is to Mike's credit in my debate.

I mean, he spent 25 minutes on Baptizo and then the word ice for the forgiveness of sins.

And you know what?

I think if he, I think more church Christ would have been thankful for him doing that.

If he would have spent about five minutes, not 25 minutes, you know what I mean?

Right.

Because his whole case is this literally means your past sins are washed away.

My whole opening was when you rightly understand them, Baptizo, when you have the Jewish background

of that, the signifies spiritual realities.

Well, then this is a representation, not the reality.

And I think this is the core of why the church of Christ teaching, um, or a cult, we don't say that mean, but it perverts the

gospel of grace is because they've replaced the representation with the reality itself.

When you think in the watery graves of baptism, then your past sins are being washed away.

You have to own the fact that you are participating.

You are the one being obedient.

You are the one in your works, obtaining justification before God.

And that distorts the only gospel that is ever saved, which is to be received by faith apart from

anything you accomplished.

And you know what the best accomplishment a person could do, Trey, it would be the works of law.

And that ain't going to get you there.

And that's the thing too, when they say, well, it's not the works of law.

I'm like, well, you can't name a law greater than the works of the law of God.

That is the greatest works you could possibly do is the works of the law.

And if you're saying that some other work, it's lesser than the works of the law.

So it can't, if it is, if it's not the works of the law, which is the greatest of all works you could do, why

would you say, oh, no, and it's not that it's, it's, it's a lesser work you got to do.

Right.

So is there anything else you want to say on Acts.

22, 16?

Yeah.

Remind me.

Cause, uh, Gavin James asked a good question on Facebook, but I do want us to kind of just briefly touch on Acts 22,

16.

So when we understand that baptism is a ceremony, you have to agree you're participating.

You, no one can now say you're only merely passive.

If you're participating and you agree that it's an act of faith, there is a moment within the ceremony that

you're passive, but it's an act of faith.

You are participating.

You are demonstrating repentance and people cannot deny that fact.

So even Lutherans that are listening, I want to say, listen, baptism is not faith.

It's an expression of faith.

It's a work of faith and you have to be consistent with these terms.

So that's going to help us in Acts 22, 16, Ananias is speaking to Paul.

And why do you wait?

Saul of Tarsus, rise and be baptized and wash, right?

These important terms that signify spiritual realities, wash your, wash away your sins,

calling on his name.

Well, I just tell people, how would the apostle Paul understood what, what he said here?

Well, he tells us in Romans 10, right?

This means, um, but the heart one believes and is justified.

And I just like to sprinkle in here.

Guess what?

He already called upon the name of Jesus earlier in the context.

He says he understands he he's looking at the risen Lord.

He even says that this is Jesus of Nazareth, Paul, whom you're crucifying, persecuting.

And then he says, what shall I do?

Curios, the divine name.

And so this is the moment of faith where he calls upon the name of the Lord from a heart that trusts that this is, uh, Yahweh in

the Shekinah glory and identifies as the resurrected Jesus.

This is the moment that I believe in.

Galatians one says, look, I received the gospel, the good news, that the power of God unto salvation

from Jesus himself, uh, from God, right?

He met me when I wasn't seeking God.

I was actually going my own way, persecuting the church.

Guess what?

That's a picture of all Christians.

At one point we were not seeking after God, but he sought us.

And so then it is true that Ananias later after Paul

in faith confessed that Jesus is Lord and was justified.

It is true that Ananias preached the gospel here, but it wasn't the first time

that Paul had heard the gospel, right?

Tell me, tell me if your baptisms look like this.

When I baptize somebody at 12, five, guess what I'm talking about?

The gospel, the gospel,.

The picture of what he's done, who he is, what he's done in this person's life.

Because if, if everybody was silent and you just got in the water and it was just dead quiet and

no, and people were confused what was going on, I would argue that's not a proper baptism.

You need to contextualize this ceremony.

You should see the early church and what they did.

We'll.

Talk about the early church in a minute.

Aaron wants to get in the early church.

We're going to get in the early church.

I promise you it don't work out.

But so to answer, um, Gavin's question real quick, right?

This one right here.

So the question I have left over for the debate, and I want to get back to true north cause that's a, that's a one I really want to answer is true north question.

But Gavin says, question I have left over from the debate is baptism of the Holy.

Spirit of ceremony.

And the answer is no.

So let's go to true north.

Um, I just want to add, um, baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a ceremony made with human

hands.

That's the whole point.

God says, I will take out that heart of flesh.

I'll give you a heart, a new living heart of flesh, and I will cleanse you with my spirit.

It's not talking about your participation.

God says that I will do these things.

This is what Paul talking about is the powerful working of God.

And, uh, what Jesus said to John the Baptist is you must be born from above.

It has to be a work of God.

That you believe.

Um, so let's go, I'm going to go back up here and try to find these comments from true north because this is

so here, let's put these up right here.

This is the stuff I like.

To answer here.

Here we go.

True north.

I don't even know where true north is.

I think it's,.

All right.

So she says, train your mom track, um, tracking with him, but I still don't completely understand since the

scripture talks about being forgiven for past sins.

The new Testament talks about past sins.

I get that.

I get that Jesus ultimately forgives all my sins, but why does the new Testament talk about forgiveness from past sins?

I'm no longer in the.

Church of Christ.

Thank you for your help.

Go ahead.

So I'm curious, maybe true north, you can bring some clarity.

We are not the one saying that only your past sins are forgiven.

And I'm not aware.

No, I think, I think for, I'm just going to take a stab at this.

Uh, she's came out of the church of Christ.

So the church of Christ teaches heavily that only your past sins are forgiven, right?

Which they have a huge problem with.

Now they'll jump to first John, you know, and say, well, if we confess our sins by, you know, like Aaron does all the time.

But the problem with that is in Hebrews, it says without the blood, without blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.

And so if you're saying that you contact the blood of Jesus in baptism, that's where you contact that

blood.

You can say, I'm sorry, all you want from here on out.

But if there's no blood to wash away those sins, you, you commit after you got baptized, you're going to have to go back into the water

and contact the blood of again, because without blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.

So that's a big theological problem they have.

But this is, I would say, this is what she's struggling with because in the church of Christ, they teach that your past sins are forgiven.

And from here on moving forward, pull up yourself by your bootstraps and work yourself hard and prove yourself, right?

True North, am I right on that?

Before we start answering.

Yeah, because our position is when you receive forgiveness of sins, and we don't have to go here, but Romans 4

talks about that your sins are when they're no longer imputed on your

behalf, they can never be imputed on your behalf.

Why?

Because when you put your faith in Jesus, this is the instrument of our justification.

All your sins, past, present, and future goes back to the cross of Calvary, and it gets better, Trey.

I know you know this.

I know you preach this at your church, but we get the perfect righteousness

of Christ imputed on our account, and if that's a perfect righteousness and it's imputed on our

account, then we can't lose our justification because of a perfect Savior, a perfect

mediator, and a perfect intercessor in the new covenant.

Will we sin again?

Like 1 John says, if you say you don't, then you're a liar.

Yes, but a believer has relationship now, and we confess and we

repent relationally, because we know positionally we're already declared right before God.

Yeah, so this right here, blessed is the man.

So right here, look, to the one who does not work, wow, but

believes in him, God, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

the one who does not work.

You know, Aaron says we bring out really hard verses that are hard to understand.

That's what Reformed theology does.

I know that's pretty difficult to understand, the one who does not work, but believes in him, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as

righteousness.

Just as David also speaks of the blessing to the one whom God counts righteousness apart from works, anything you do,

blessed are those whose lawless needs are forgiven, whose sins are covered, blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count sin.

So again, what sin?

What sin is he not going to count?

Well, he's not going to count all the sins in which he died for.

What did he die for?

He died for all of our sins.

That's what he died for.

And here is 2 Corinthians 5, right?

It says that for our sake, he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the

righteousness of God.

So that's that great exchange that Jeremiah is talking about, True North.

We exchanged our sinfulness on him, and he in place, he imparted his righteousness to us, all of it,

not some of it, all of it, because we imparted all of our nasty sinfulness on him, and he

died in our place, and we actually died with him there in the eyes of God.

We'll talk about that here in a minute.

That's what Colossians 2 would be talking about.

But here, yeah, I know, True North says that she believes in faith

alone.

That's great.

But Gavin, look at this here.

He trapped us.

He got us to admit that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a ceremony.

It's not a ceremony.

I'm like, you heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen.

Baptism doesn't always mean ceremony.

Well, here's the thing.

I don't know if this is groundbreaking for Gavin, like if he didn't know this, or if he's just trying to show people.

He didn't have to try to trick us out.

Was he trying to trick us with the question, is Holy Spirit baptism a ceremony?

No.

Well, we got him.

We got him, y 'all.

I'm like, well, I could have told you that baptism, you just said, look, do you think that baptism always.

Means a ceremony?

I'd say no.

No.

Now, I will say baptism into water is always a ceremony.

That's always been our case.

So I don't know if this was groundbreaking for Gavin.

But just the word baptism is not always a ceremony.

Oh, yeah.

I would always say, well, I've preached on this.

I've explained this on my podcast, YouTube channel, Trey, that baptizo just

means immersion, right?

You can be immersed into water, ceremonial, right?

You can be immersed into suffering.

Jesus talks about a baptism under suffering.

Or you can be immersed into one's authority, like in 1 Corinthians chapter 10.

Moses.

I've always said, baptizo, it has to be understood in context.

But if that context involves water, where you're being immersed, that definitionally

is a ceremony, a purification, right?

So, yeah.

Everett Young in the building.

The Young in the house.

What up, Everett Young?

Look, Carl.

Hey, and Dalton.

Dalton Chalice is in the YouTube channel.

I saw that.

Look, Carl Henry picked up on that, too, now, what Gavin said.

Oh, man.

Oh, gosh.

They got us.

They had a high -five moment.

Okay.

Here we go.

Listen to this one.

This is a good one.

Ready?

So, I'm rambling and digressing.

But essentially, what Calvinism and Reformed Theology does is they go to the difficult passages that a

lot of people haven't studied, like Romans 9.

We go to these difficult passages, like, I don't know, John 3, 16, whoever believes.

That's tough.

I mean, like, that's a tough one.

Here we go again.

I just want to play it again.

Everybody hear it.

Is they go to the difficult passages that a lot of people haven't studied, like Romans 9, John 6, 37,

John 6, 44, John 6, 45.

They go to these passages, Ezekiel 36, passages a lot of people haven't studied before.

Now, how do you know that, Aaron?

Jeremiah, how does he know that a lot of people hadn't studied this?

I found that a little insulting for people.

Does he tell them that they, look, y 'all, now, you might have read it, you don't understand it.

These are hard passages.

Trust me, it don't mean that, right?

When it says, the one who does not work, but believes in him, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is kind and righteous.

That's a very hard thing to understand, because what you don't understand is that word faith is a root of pisteuo,

which is believe, which also means you have to be baptized.

And see, that's not in there.

So, I have to explain it to you, that that actually means you have to be baptized.

Now, that seems confusing, but just reading it for what it says, it doesn't seem confusing to me.

But according to him, we use very hard passages to confuse him.

And they misteach them, they misapply them.

But if you've never studied it before, you're like, oh, wow, I don't, I don't, I didn't even know that text said that.

And so, then they take the hard passages to...

Like, don't work, but believe in Jesus Christ and put your trust and faith in him.

Like when Jesus says, whoever looks upon me and believes, be saved.

Like, that's a very tough passage.

We take those passages and we misapply them.

Therefore, we've been justified by faith and now at peace with God.

That's a really tough passage.

Okay, let's look at this.

You know, let's look at that.

Let's just look at that.

Oh, Mack Slick had a good one on this one, right?

So, when it says, therefore, we have been justified, saved, right, by

faith.

Now, faith doesn't mean baptism, and nobody thinks that.

Like, when you tell your kids, have faith in me, you don't mean to go get baptized.

Are you telling your kids to go get baptized when you say, hey, look, son, just have faith in me?

What are you telling them?

Well, I'm telling my kid to get baptized in me.

That's what I'm telling them.

Like, no, it's not hard to understand.

I need to get my second cup of coffee.

We've been justified by faith.

We have peace with God.

So, here's the question.

Do I have peace with God?

When I have faith, or do I not have peace with God when I have faith?

That's a simple question.

It's not hard.

It's not difficult.

Like, bottom shelf Christianity all over the world knows that it's a religion that says that you're saved by

faith in God, in Christ Jesus.

It's not complicated.

So, we're the ones making it complicated.

Like, when you start changing the definitions of words, things get a little complicated for people.

But let's just go back to this and how we make things hard.

To formulate their doctrine.

And they come to very easy passages.

And they basically say, nope, that's not what it means because Romans 9.

That's not what it means because Ezekiel 36, right?

Which is sort of the opposite of good Bible study.

Logical good Bible study is you take the very simple, easy, clear passages, and you say,

okay, what does this clear passage say?

Okay, that I know is true.

So, how do I reconcile a difficult passage?