Should Christians Run For Office: The Politics of Politics with T.C. Cook DMW#202

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Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between. Broadcasting from an

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Undisclosed Location. Dead Men Walking starts now. Oh well hello everyone.

00:23

Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. I hope you guys had a great Christmas and New Year.

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We took a couple weeks off this year. I think our last episode was the 19th on the live stream.

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We had fun there. You guys really seemed to like it. We got some good feedback on that. So we might be doing some more of those in 2024.

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Just getting some guys together, doing some live streams. We had Keith Foskey, Andrew Rappaport, Kevin Hay, Claude Ramsey, all kinds of people jumping on.

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I'm missing some people but it was a good time and you guys enjoyed it. But man, getting back into the swing of things.

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Listen, we're going to do an end of year wrap up probably later in January.

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Usually we try to do it right in the first week but we have some guests coming up that we want to drop first. But if you have just started listening,

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I just got a message yesterday from a guy. He said, Hi, I just started listening and I'm going back to the back catalog. We've got 250 episodes and just in this year we had guys like Dusty Devers, who's now

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State Senator Dusty Devers. Dale Partridge, James White, Chris Larson, Executive President of Ligonier.

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Obviously Keith Foskey from your Calvinist, Andrew Rappaport. Many, many more. Just some great guys talking about all kinds of good things.

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So go back in that catalog even in 2023. Check that out. But you can go all the way back to 2021 where April 19th will be in our fourth year.

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So you guys have been along for the ride for quite a while. We appreciate you telling a friend, sharing the show.

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That's the only way we grow and we can help glorify God that way through the program.

01:54

But I do want to mention right off top, I got to talk about Jacob's Supply, sponsor of the show. You guys have heard me talk about them very often.

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This is a brother in the Lord. I attend church with him. He's got a business in Temperance, Michigan called Jacob's Supply. They do building materials, appliances, metal roofing, barns, lumber, 40 -50 % off retail and it's all new stuff, guys.

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So even if you are in the Midwest, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, you're a few hours away, go there and take the trip.

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If you're a builder, if you're a realtor, if you just want to do a home remod, renovation, you got to check them out because you're going to save a lot of money on that in there.

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He's a reform believer. He's a good guy. But here's the cool thing. They ship nationally for large orders too.

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They've got a deal right now on luxury vinyl flooring that is phenomenal. Everyone else is selling it for $8, $9 a square foot.

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I think they're down to like $1 .50 or $2. It's brand new. They've got it in all kinds of options and colors.

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And that's just one of the deals that they have there right now and they'll have that for a while. They're the number one

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Cortex seller, I think, either in the state or nation. They just do a really good job with that. But jacobsupply .com,

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you can see their website or you can call them at 734 -224 -0978. Like I said, even if you're in the area a couple hours away in the

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Midwest, go check them out in Temperance, Michigan. Or give them a call at 734 -224 -0978.

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See what they can ship you nationally. Jacobsupply, great guy. Sponsored the show. We got to support our brothers in the

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Lord that own businesses, that are influencers at where they work. That's how we grow. That's how we advance the kingdom.

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And proud to have him as a sponsor. Cool. So guys, I had a lot of stuff going on. Heck, I just came off of about a three -week,

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I don't know what it was. It was flu. I got COVID tested. It wasn't COVID. It wasn't the flu, but sinus infection.

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Couldn't talk. Couldn't swallow food. Got on some antibiotics last week. And feeling a little bit better.

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You might hear a little bit of nasally here in the audio. I'm just getting over it. But actually brings us into our guest because we were supposed to have him on a few weeks ago.

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And I had to call up and cancel, which I very rarely do. In four years, we've canceled two appointments. He was the second one in four years.

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I felt bad doing it, but I couldn't even talk. So praise the Lord. I'm kind of on the mend and feeling better.

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And we're excited to have him here today. It's Tracy T .C. Cook. He's the executive director of Powerhouse Youth Center in Washington, Indiana.

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He's dedicated to glorifying God through building relationships with teens and sharing the gospel. He's married with two children.

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Tracy's also running for Davies County Commissioner, which I know a little bit about. As you guys know, I'm a county commissioner here in Monroe County since 2016.

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So we wanted to talk to him. We wanted to see what's going on with him. Kind of give us the back story, his life, where he's at.

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And maybe talk politics for a little bit. T .C., how you doing? Welcome to the show. What's up, man?

04:45

Hey, thank you so much for having me on. And I'm glad you're doing better. It looks like you got a head start on your

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New Year's resolution to cut a few pounds, probably. You didn't want it that way, but hey, it came either way.

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You know, when you're 42, you'll take it. It's like, oh, I'm sick for two weeks. I can't eat anything.

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I think this is the Lord telling me to, you know, he's inducing my New Year's resolution. Like, stop putting so much food in your mouth.

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Have a little self -control. Don't be a city without walls. You know what I mean? That's right. All these guys out there doing fasting for the first year.

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All that stuff. Cleansing. You're like, yeah, I took care of that. I can be done. Check. Right now.

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Now the goal is not to, you know, overdo it now that we're back to eating food. But it's hard around Christmas and New Year's when you got all that good food for the holidays, you know.

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But T .C., tell us a little bit about yourself because we met down at the Fight Left Feast conference. We talked for quite a while.

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One of the days you said, hey, I'm thinking about running for office. I definitely encourage you because I've always said we need more believers in public office.

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There's some Christians that believe, hey, we should stay out of the sphere. The church is too political. I say, no, the church hasn't become more political.

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I think the culture has just become more religious. And that has left us to then defend the biblical worldview in the public square as elected officials.

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So before we get into that, I know I read a short bio, but give us a little backstory of the origin story.

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So to speak, T .C. Cook. Yeah, absolutely. So we ended up here in Davis County, actually

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Davis County, Indiana. If most of you guys probably don't know where that's at, but it's in between Indianapolis and Evansville.

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And then you got Bloomington a little bit to the east where IU campus is. So we're kind of smashed in between there.

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But that dad was a coal miner. He graduated on Saturday, started coal mining on Monday.

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Right. So he's been a coal miner his whole life in Kentucky. I was born in Kentucky, lived there for,

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I don't know, roughly six months or so. Then we we got here in Davis County because he followed the coal mines and so lived in the same house.

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Dad still lives there to this day, right there in a small little town in Davis County called

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Cantleburg. Fun fact, though, in Kentucky, I was born in a place called

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Tadpole Holler. And it was a one road in and one road out, buddy.

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One lane, too. So, yeah, that's where I actually six months of my life was spent.

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But then we moved here to Davis County. And so I went to school, did a little basketball. I was six four, which is

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I'm six five now. I was six four when I was in seventh grade. And so I grew one inch after that.

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So you can imagine being in Indiana and the Hoosier state that. Yeah, they were recruiting you hard.

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Oh, it was it was crazy. So I gave in, did that for a little bit. But we just didn't have a lot of money growing up.

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And we weren't broke as far as like I had food. Right. And I had clothes. And but, you know, mom was putting clothes on layaway at Walmart, you know, and paying them off.

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And then we would get those clothes for the summer meeting. And we'd have those new clothes for the next school year.

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Right. So there were some things that we just had to kind of sacrifice through the time. And and over the years, coal mining became a better paying job and that type of stuff.

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So dad does well now. But but just growing up, that's where we were. And so didn't have a lot, but we had enough and kind of went to church growing up as a kid.

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But things just weren't always cohesive in our household.

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Right. So mom and dad ended up getting divorced when I was around 12, 13 years old and lived with dad for a little bit, then moved in with mom.

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And so when basketball came around and I was playing and doing well, I kind of took a look at the landscape of mom just not having hardly any money and and me having to work.

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And at six, five, being the tallest kid in your in your high school, almost at that time, you were you were center.

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Right. You were you were right there in the middle playing basketball. Well, six, five, the Charles Barkley days of six, four being a power forward were kind of going away and everybody was getting taller.

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It seemed like you got point guards that are six, four. Now you got them that are six, eight. Right. So I was like, I don't think I'm really going to make it probably anywhere.

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If I did, it might be like a, you know, a small private school or something like that that just needed something.

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But so I quit and I started working and I had a coach. It was phenomenal. This coach was it was it was a

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JV coach and he came to me and he said, listen, man, he's like, you're gonna have to work the rest of your life. Do you really want to start now?

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And I said, well, it's not really a choice that I have. I have to start now. I have to help out.

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I have to help mom out. And I didn't I didn't regret that. And I still don't. I didn't take

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I wasn't mad at mom for that. I actually enjoyed work and wanted to work. And so that's what

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I did. Started working, doing odd jobs. And then it was about 17 years old when

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God saved me. And and I was going to a youth group because there was a lot of girls there.

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I mean, I'm being honest, right? Like that was like we had a youth group in town in a small community and 200, 200 kids were showing up and about half of them were female.

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So, hey, this is a chance. And they were from all other schools and stuff, you know. So that's a chance for me to kind of kind of see how many fish were in the sea type thing.

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Right. And so and I and I tell people, hey, I did that just for that reason. I didn't really care about God, but I did it.

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But but it ended up working because I married married a girl from there. So it worked and we're still married to this day. But but the

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Lord, the Lord saved me and and I started following after him. I, you know, I got rid of all the junk

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I was doing and I was I was drinking, smoking, chewing before it was legal and doing all that stuff.

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I just got rid of all of it and stopped partying and and just kind of really put my head down and started reading and started studying and started asking questions and trying to figure out who who

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God is through Scripture. And I did that all the way through. I had a guy gentleman at a youth group that he lived a couple houses down from me.

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And he said, hey, does anybody struggle waking up in the morning to read? And I'm like, yep, I do. You know, here I am, 17 years old.

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Do I want to wake up? And I was like, yeah, I do. He's like, well, I'm opening my house up. Anybody can come by.

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I start reading at about six o 'clock, five thirty, six o 'clock. And I said, five thirty said, yes, I'll be there.

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And so literally from my my junior year, my senior year, I hardly missed a day.

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I woke up at five thirty to go to this man's house every morning. Sometimes we would sit and read sometimes together.

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Sometimes we'd read on our own. Sometimes we just sat there and quiet and just sat there and and then we would go about our day.

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But I did that consistently every single day, five days a week at his house. And those times really started to shape who

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I was, who I am now and as a man. And so I started working at a youth facility my senior year of high school.

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And then when I graduated high school, I didn't go to college. I ended up staying here and working. And I've worked here for about six years, left, did some odd things, ran an insurance business, was a firefighter, full time firefighter for a while, was a mechanic for a while, worked at a factory.

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I drove Amish for a while. Another fun fact, my Amish driving service is called Hauling A.

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And you can take that if you want to. And it could be hauling Amish. It could be whatever, you know. But that's what I called it.

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And so but I did a lot of different things. And then I wound up back here about four years ago at this youth facility.

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And it's been incredible ever since. This is where God has taught me a lot of stuff through that time away with just business and different things that I now can apply back here at the youth facility.

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So it's a good time. Now, that's good. So you said your parents got divorced around 12 or 13.

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Did you grow up in a Christian home or going to church or attending or knowing anything about God or really?

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Or was it really that first experience at youth group? Yes. So my dad's dad was a

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Southern Baptist pastor. He died, though. My dad was seven, so I never got to meet him. My mom's dad was a

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Southern Baptist pastor for a long time. He did leave in like the 80s before the resurgence kind of took place.

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Right. He's like, this thing's going downhill. I'm out. And so he did leave. But but I got to meet him and he passed away when

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I was around 15 or so. But I got to spend summers with him sometimes and different things. So so I had both parents had that background, but we were hit and miss.

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We'd have years where we'd go consistently. We'd have a lot of down years. I mean, there was there was a lot of rocky times in the family and some addiction, some different things going on.

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And and so so it was just it was like I said, just kind of hit and miss. And but I had some foundational things there that I knew who

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God was. I was baptized at six years old. And and so I knew all that stuff.

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But but I left it and just kind of just kind of blew with the wind type stuff. You know, yeah, I've often said on this podcast, anyone who listens for a time, they're tired of me saying this, but I relate to that.

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I said the sinner's prayer at seven and God saved me at twenty four. One of one of those kind of things for me.

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So the real quick did not to belabor this point too much. But the but the gentleman who you

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I'm always curious, the gentleman who had the Bible studies and that was kind of formative for you.

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What perspective was he coming from in Christianity? Because I the gentleman who really shaped me for a couple of years in my 20s,

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I'm on the opposite side of the theological spectrum now. And but the Lord used him very greatly in my life, in my in my 20s.

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So I'm always curious to know, like, was that something that you look back on and you go, oh, we probably wouldn't align too much on some doctrinal stuff.

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Or was it or was he formative in that as well, too, when you were younger? Yeah, no, absolutely.

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We would not align on some doctrinal things. But there there are some the what

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I would call the basic things like if you're not doing these, you're not a Christian. You know, the

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Trinity Orthodox. Yeah, there's just some some key principles that are there that he kind of taught me and for me.

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The church I was going to at that time, totally. I would disagree with a lot of what they would say now doctrinally.

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Right. But it doesn't discredit even the guy who was running the powerhouse, which which the guy who I met with in the morning and the guy running the powerhouse were the two most influential men in my life at that time, taught me how to be a man, taught me how to how to be a husband, how to be a father just by watching them.

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Right. And watching what they did and taught me how to how to pray. Right. And and I would say

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I'd say prayer is almost the equalizer. If you notice, there's a lot of non reformed or even non

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Calvinistic people who pray pretty reformed and pretty Calvinistic prayers out there. So but but but taught me the prayer part of it.

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And but yeah, I would say it was not it's not Pentecostal. Right. It's not apostolic. But it was definitely more of that.

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Sure. That that side tends towards more of that side of things would be my my way of.

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Yeah. Among many things that really I struggled with growing up to what was the way we prayed.

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I was homeschooled. I was I had a really good education. My mother was a teacher and I'm grateful for being homeschooled up until my junior year of high school.

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But there were some things in the church where it was. Well, we don't talk about that. Jonathan Edwards was a great preacher, but he believed a little weird.

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And we don't, you know, but the prayer always got me. It was like, well, you have absolute free will, but we would pray,

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Lord. Just I remember praying for one of my uncles, Lord, save him. Well, if the Lord saves or bring someone in his path so he can make a choice.

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It's like, well, then the Lord still ultimately the author and finisher of our faith. And there were some things growing up where I just didn't get good answers when talking to the youth pastor or the lead pastor.

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And it was really very tradition driven. Well, this is what we believe, because this is the way it's been.

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And in my 20s, the Lord kind of shed me of all those traditions. And I'm not going to get into length in my testimony because people have heard it.

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Listen, but went from very kind of spirit, spirit filled church, but very legalistic and almost like fundamental

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Baptist to a very Pentecostal. And, you know, they were sending people out from Bethel so we could see feathers or gold off the ceiling.

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So I've had the I've had the span of the theological. Right. And the Lord just stripped away all those traditions and said, why don't we just believe what the

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Bible says? And when you really get into church history and see what our early church fathers and even up through the, you know, 14, 15, 16th century believed, it's very different than kind of that charismatic

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Pentecostalism that we've been involved in in Western Christianity over the last hundred and hundred and fifty years.

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So, you know, a lot of people who are kind of in that in that area and stuff.

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A lot of people were like, we're not going to talk about doctrine because doctrine divides. Right. That's kind of the terminology.

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Right. And it's like, but yet they have like we don't have that. But yet they do have a doctrine like like the fact that like that's what they don't that a lot of people don't understand is.

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But you do have an actual doctrine. It just might not be a biblical one. Right. And so you even trying to stay away from it isn't is a doctrine in and of itself because you create followers of what you're saying, trying to stay away from from that.

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And so I find that very interesting with a lot of people, a lot of kind of let's it's just all about Jesus.

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That's all we want to talk about. It's just all about Jesus. And I'm like, I want to talk about that, too. Let's talk about it. You know, let's talk about Jesus.

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And but that's not what I mean. It's just let's just love everybody. It's just it's just all about Jesus. And really, that's just like a wall that they're trying to put up so that they don't have to wrestle with some tough questions.

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Yeah, it's funny because I've always said the reformed and Calvinistic folk were the let's define terms before let's define terms was necessary.

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Nowadays, we have to if you're talking about anything, not even theological or doctrinal. You're just talking in the secular world.

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You have to define terms. And now we see that the left and the secular pagans are redefining all sorts of terms.

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But that was one of the things that really that I really embraced and really loved about reformed theology is look at we need to define terms, define biblical terms.

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What do words mean? What does the original text mean? And I think we were ahead of our time on that because now to have any conversation, even when you say, well, we just want to love.

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Well, what are you saying when you mean love? Do you mean accept or do you mean chastise and discipline because we care for you?

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Those those are two different things. And the Bible defines love very clearly for us. And even sadly, in Western Christianity, what most churches are calling love is not love at all.

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So, yeah, I think that's very important. Really just saying accept, right? Accept all things. Accept them is what they're really saying.

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You know, we were driving through a smaller town, even in our in our community here, but it was outside of our county.

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But they had a billboard up that said it had a mask on, you know, back in the COVID days, you know, and right next to us, love your neighbor is what it's saying.

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So it's love your neighbor, wear a mask. And it's like, well, hold on. You're not actually what you're saying is, is that you don't want them.

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You don't want them to know the truth, right, of what's really going on here. Just put a mask on, be quiet, and that'll love your neighbor.

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And, you know, we had Francis Collins, you had all those guys kind of push all that stuff into the evangelical world.

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And but, yeah, we got to define a lot of these old dead guys that we love to follow, that we love to read.

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They were defining terms well before. So the terms have been defined through Scripture.

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Right. And we just have to we just have to know that. And so, yeah, it is.

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And, you know, you talked about the liberalism and all that stuff. But even on even on the Republican side, the conservative side, you have

20:42

Vivek Ramaswamy, who who is there is a God and he's real. Well, well, define

20:47

God, right? Yeah. Because what God? Yeah. Which which one are you? There's quite a few gods for him.

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So, yeah. Right. Even though he says, no, no, no, there's only one and he all lives inside of us. And I believe the same things you guys believe.

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That's just not true. And it's just disingenuous of what he's saying. And I know why he has to say I know why he's saying it.

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I get it. But it's just not true because he hasn't defined his term of who God is. That's sad that we have to even get to that point where we have to define

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God. And but we do. Vivek's going to be so if you've ever worked in politics, which

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I have, you know, up at my state capital, I've ran some national campaigns, been to some conventions, been to some leadership stuff, you know, been down to Washington, D .C.

21:30

in the White House, got to meet Trump when he invited us down there. So you beat you around politicians enough. You recognize Vivek as a very good politician.

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And don't mishear me. I'm not saying a, you know, same worldview or I'm going to vote for I'm saying he's good.

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He's a good politician. He knows where to shift what to say. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can spit.

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But that's just because I'm jaded because I've been involved in politics since 2002. So you look at that and you go, he knows what to say.

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And that's not an endorsement. That's actually a bad thing. When I call you a politician, that means I don't like you. If I say you're a public servant, then we're in the same headspace because that's what

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I truly believe, which this will transition us nicely talking about not only doctrine and certain

22:15

Christians believing certain things, but public office as well, too. I've had some Christians come up to me and go, you should not be involved in politics.

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That's not our space. We should be advancing the kingdom through the church and things like that.

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Where do you stand on that? Obviously, I think you and I are going to align here because you're running for public office.

22:35

What do you say to people like that that might say, hey, that's not our sphere or you shouldn't do it or, hey, let's just keep our heads down and meet every week in our building and preach the word there, but not go out into the public sphere.

22:48

Yeah. So we've got to be clear on the fact that the keys to the kingdom are given to the church. Right. And so we've got to be clear.

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We also got to be clear on the fact that there are different spheres of influence. However, those spheres of influences are made up of people.

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That is, God created people, created in his image people. And you've got the family, you've got you've got the church and you've got the civic government.

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Some even include the fourth foundational, which is the self -rule, right, which is a sphere in and of itself.

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But if you don't have that, you don't have any of the other ones. So that's why I just kind of do the three. But in each of these spheres,

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God is Lord over all of them. And so we've also got to remember that as believers.

23:31

And these are foundational. I'm not trying to make it sound like if you don't believe this way, you're an idiot, but they're foundational things to Christian doctrine.

23:40

Right. And if you read some of these old dead guys, right, you'll understand. And I keep using dead because dead men walking.

23:47

But you got to understand that that's where they were coming from, that these guys were entrenched in a political sphere also as they were pastors, as they were

23:57

Christian laymen, as they were theologians. They were entrenched in all things because all of life for all of Christ.

24:05

Right. And and so so that's that's where I kind of land on that. So it's interesting because for the powerhouse,

24:13

I go and speak at a lot of different churches on a Sunday. Sometimes they'll give me seven, eight minutes and then I get afterwards.

24:18

Sometimes they let me preach. Sometimes they like this past one. They said, hey, we have our service at the beginning.

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Then we have our Sunday school. You get the whole Sunday school time. We'll let you come up during the service. Seven, eight minutes. But then you got the whole

24:29

Sunday school time. So great. Any particular topic? Nope, not at all. Fair enough. So I'm going there and it's in our county and we're starting to get out that I'm running for county commissioner.

24:40

And so in our county, your county might be different, but we have three districts. But the whole county gets to vote for each district.

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But I can only run if I live in that district. Right. Right. And and that's because we have a statute here that if you're under fifty thousand population and below, then the whole county kind of works as a unit.

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But you still want to spread out the elected officials inside of the the county itself.

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So that's why we have the district. So so I've got I've got to touch the whole county. I've got to talk to the whole county.

25:10

Right. So I'm at this one church. And I didn't mention that I was running for county commissioner because some churches are a little bit weird about some of that stuff.

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And and I was there with my powerhouse hat on. Right. And so so I just I gave the message, did that.

25:27

And as I'm walking off, the pastor said, man, that sure sounded like a political campaign to me.

25:34

And he gave me a wink and he laughed. And he's like, I'm just just a joke. As you guys might know, TC is running for county commissioner.

25:41

And then afterwards, he was upset at me, not like mattering. He's like, why didn't you say anything?

25:47

And I'm like, well, I don't know. Sometimes, like people are just there's some churches who are just kind of weird. And then an elder comes up to me.

25:52

He said, dude, you need to be telling the churches that you're running, because we need

25:58

Christians in office here in our town. We need people who are going to stand for truth. And I'm like, well,

26:04

I mean, it just blew me away because we're small rural area. Even rural areas almost get a little bit weirder about some of these things than than most.

26:12

But I was like, wow, what in the world? And so so I think the church and COVID probably helped some of this.

26:18

But but we're hungry for that. We're we're finally people are finally saying, hey, we've been quiet too long.

26:25

We've set too long and we've we've kind of lived off of this, this borrowed morality that our founding fathers had and that the

26:34

Constitution was wrote for. You know, you have you have Adams who said that the Constitution was only for moral and religious people.

26:40

If you don't have that, then the Constitution fails. And so so we've kind of had this borrowed morality or even a pietist view of that morality.

26:49

Right. For a long time. And then all of a sudden it gets stripped away because we're told we're not we're not.

26:56

What was the term they were using? You're like sufficient, not sufficient, but you're not you're not worthy.

27:04

I'm going to use that word to be open. Right. Churches need to shut down because they're not. What's the term? You know the term I'm thinking of?

27:10

Yeah, they weren't essential. You know, essential, essential. That's the term, right? Churches aren't essential.

27:15

And you have John McArthur's like, hold on, bud. Like you have strip clubs and liquor stores open. Why in the world aren't churches essential?

27:21

Right. And so we finally realized that, hold on, that they're taken away. They're even calling us non -essential people.

27:28

That's just not true. And so that's where I kind of fall on that thing is, is here's the thing.

27:35

All of life, I need to live as for Christ, no matter what it is. And there's there's those fears.

27:40

And each one of those fears, the Lord is the Lord over. And God has established a government that's on his shoulders.

27:48

Right. And he places who he wants into leadership. That does that always mean what it does mean for us sometimes is sometimes he places people there for our judgment.

27:58

Right. Yeah, absolutely. You could argue that's what America is experiencing right now.

28:04

I don't think it's even that that big of an argument to make. Like it's there. Like, I mean, you don't you just have to say it.

28:10

People see it. Right. And I'm talking nonbelievers see, you know, they're like, dang, this isn't good.

28:16

And but then also you read in Psalms and stuff. But but a community or a nation that actually fears the

28:23

Lord, blessings will come. And so that means that we have to we have to have governments that are following the

28:32

Lord because it is a sphere that he created. And to do that, we have to have

28:38

God fearing men in those positions. And that is literally why I threw my name in the hat.

28:44

I love it. Just to backtrack a little bit, I would say I totally agree with the way you handled speaking at the church.

28:51

I was in those same predicaments where pastors would say, hey, come speak. Right. I leave it up to the pastor.

28:56

I look at the pulpit as a very sacred place. I'm not going to go in there and self promote. I leave it up to leadership or elders to if they want to say

29:03

I'm running for something, that's fine. But I like the way you handle it, because I was always very probably my the weakest part is being able to self promote because it seems a little prideful.

29:13

Now, look, I'll tell you everything I've done and accomplished and why I believe it and why you should vote for me.

29:19

But to kind of you know what I mean, to say this is my title and I'm running for this. I do like the way you handle that.

29:26

And then to a lot of Christians, like we said, I think before we started recording, you know, a lot of people argue, oh, the church is too political.

29:31

The church is too political. I would say the secular world has become too religious because they're stepping into areas.

29:39

That is the sphere of the church and the church has to respond. And I'm tracking with with everything, everything you said there.

29:48

What worries me, too, and this is this is something that worries me, but something that kind of opened my eyes and I want to get your get your thoughts on this is, you know, 10 years ago, even

29:58

I would say even as near as 10 years ago. I was on board with the Ben Shapiro's and the

30:04

Dennis Prager's and the Matt Walsh's, even though Matt Walsh really wasn't around 10 years ago, but he was starting to come around into this kind of conservatism.

30:13

Right. And I was I was up at my state capitol. I'm debating with Republicans and I was always debating a lot of pro -life people where I was so frustrated with them.

30:24

They have no principle, they're not state, you know, they run on one thing, do another thing. And it took me a long time to realize that even conservatism outside of a biblical worldview is nothing is nothing to stand on.

30:41

First of all, what are you conserving if you don't have the same, you know, biblical worldview as me?

30:46

And then also even realizing like the Dennis Prager's and the Ben Shapiro's, which, you know, when you say

30:51

Judeo -Christian, those two things are opposite. One believes in the Messiah that has redeemed all in his

30:58

Lord over all and one doesn't. So then you're going, I'm not even on the same footing with some of my

31:05

Jewish friends because their their worldview is totally different than mine.

31:10

So I've really started to come around, I would say, in the last five, six years of going. The most important thing you can have as an elected official is a

31:20

Trinitarian, biblical worldview that understands who Christ is, understands who

31:26

God is, and then work out from there. Everything else is eventually going to fall to the wayside.

31:32

It's going to take shortcuts. I mean, I even see a lot of my Christian brothers and sisters in the pro -life movement that will shoot down an abolition bill and go, well, let's just make it a 12 week or 10 week bill.

31:46

Let's let's allow murder up until this time. So it's this thing where I've kind of had this realization to where really

31:54

Christ has to be the foundation of everything. Or it's even for political grounds or it's just not going to work.

32:04

Where do you land on that? I'm assuming you're pretty close to me to where it's like the Bible is the inspired word of God.

32:10

And that's where I make my decisions and I base everything off that. And that's how I'm going to serve the people. Is that kind of where you're coming from too?

32:16

No, that's 100 % where I'm coming from. I think some of the other things that you were kind of kind of picking around at in some of these things is is is teaming up even with people.

32:29

And there's there's a way and a right way and a wrong way. You know, we see this. What's his name? Is his name James Lindsay or what?

32:35

What's his what's the guy's name? Who's an atheist, right? And we all during like the

32:40

Black Lives Matter movement and all that stuff where a lot of Christians were flocking to kind of join up with him, letting him speak at Christian conferences, even things like that, which

32:50

I was I was like, hold on. Like like I get like like we're on the same page on something.

32:57

So I get kind of that. But but letting him come to a to a conference that is very, very much outspokenly scriptural based following Scripture to speak doesn't quite compute in my mind.

33:09

Right. And when when there were when there were plenty of Christian men who have been speaking out and were speaking out against this, the same thing, right, the same movements, the same social justice type things, right, that they could have had.

33:23

And they did have some of those that I just didn't think it was needed. And and what we found now is is is he's he's turned turned full fledge against what he would deem

33:35

Christian nationalism, the term. And he doesn't want a Christian nation. Well, that's obvious.

33:41

Like, I don't know an atheist out there right now who would say, yes, sign me up for that. Right. Because they don't want they don't believe that Christ is a foundational thing.

33:51

That's part of their belief, literally. And so so that gets kind of kind of weird.

33:57

And then just get it doesn't make sense to me that we would continue now. Do I have non believers who are friends?

34:03

Absolutely. Right. Am I going to them for advice on how to live a

34:09

Christian marriage? No, I'm not. You know what I mean? Because they don't know. Right. Do I have people

34:14

I hang out with, I talk to who really could care less to step foot inside of a church? Absolutely.

34:20

Right. But I'm not going to go to them about, you know, kind of life practices, because I believe that the

34:26

Bible has all the answers for that. And so I'm going to go to someone who uses that same belief in that because it is a foundational thing.

34:35

And so anything I do then has to be based on that. And people I partner with and I do things with have to be based on that.

34:44

So so that that's kind of what I think secular conservatism, you know, the Ben Shapiro's and all that stuff.

34:50

You know, we start to find out that, you know, Ben Shapiro and the LGBTQ and all that, like he has some big donors.

34:57

Right. Who are who are a part of that movement, who want to see that movement grow. So he's telling people not to speak about certain certain letters in the

35:07

LGBTQ. Right. And then there's ones that he will speak on, like transgenderism and stuff like that.

35:12

But he's not going to speak on lesbian and gay factor. Right. Even though Old Testament wise, because Ben would supposedly hold to the

35:19

Old Testament, it's forbidden in there. Right. In the Old Testament and in the New. But yet he's not doing that because of some donors that he has.

35:26

So so and I don't think I'm not shocking the world here. This is pretty well known. I'm not trying to throw mud.

35:32

It's been a super smart guy. Yep, he is. He's very smart. Does he have some really good takes on certain issues?

35:38

Yeah, he really does. But would I want him to be a leader in the conservative movement? I would say if you don't have a foundation, what are you conserving?

35:46

What is it? That was going to be that was going to be what I usually ask people. What are you conserving?

35:52

Right. And it's you get answers that you go. They don't know why they're conserving or what it is they are conserving.

36:00

And I just want the listeners to know, too. I want everyone to understand. I'm not saying you cannot partner even politically with a nonbeliever.

36:08

If the if the law or the action is just and righteous, I'm just saying having a biblical worldview.

36:16

The scriptures are my dividing line. I've taken advice from a nonbeliever, but guess what

36:22

I did first? I went to the to the Bible and said, OK, this is the dividing line. What is right? What is true?

36:27

What is just? And if it lines up, then that's where we go forward. So believe me,

36:33

I'm not saying, oh, I'm going to go run for office and you have to believe exactly how I do right down to, you know, the confession and the doctrine and the theology for me to be able to even know.

36:45

The crazy thing is, is, you know, we're both believers. And if you win your race, you're going to realize you you serve at the behest of the people.

36:54

You serve the atheists, the secularists, the Christian, the non -Christian, the Muslim. You are a servant to those people.

37:00

That's how the Lord has instituted it for you to be a minister of peace and justice.

37:05

So you don't get to say, well, I don't like the way you believe or the way you look or the what you said.

37:11

I do have a biblical worldview, but I'm here to be a servant of the people, which is,

37:17

I believe, a very New Testament Christian thing, if you want to put it that way.

37:23

One of the things I really enjoy. If I could, if I could sum up, which I could be pulled out for a clip and use, use hardcore against me.

37:30

You know this probably, but hopefully they'll keep listening to this point right here. The point is, is I see so many

37:36

Christians just take truth or take someone saying as truth just because they say they're conservative.

37:46

Right. And, and, and that that's not where we find truth. We find truth in Scripture.

37:52

Right. And so, so, and if we don't have truth in Scripture, the foundation begins to shake as far as our worldview goes, as far as our country goes, as far as all that right goes.

38:06

And, um, and so I just like people will run to Fox news, will run to things. And there are some good people on Fox.

38:12

There's some, some people who I'm like, what are you doing? And, um, and you know, as Fox is even promoting what was for a while,

38:18

I think they might've backed up. But Caitlyn Jenner and, and, you know, all that stuff, right. All his, right. They were promoting all these things,

38:24

Bruce Jenner and all that. And it's like, wait, what, what happens if we look just like, uh, liberalism?

38:31

What happens if we look just like, uh, this progressive, um, mentality and well, then there is, we, we aren't conserving anything.

38:39

And so don't take just because someone says they're conservative. Don't take that as, as truth, but always, always take what

38:48

Scripture says as true. Cause that's our foundation. So, so that's what I was trying to say. Like all that in a nutshell would be that.

38:55

Yeah, no. And I mean, actions speak louder than words in any arena, right. Whether it's politics or within the church or at your job or relationships, like what someone does, uh, and what the actions they take are, are, will always speak louder than what they say.

39:12

Unfortunately, you see a lopsided kind of ratio in the political world of things said versus things done.

39:20

Right. Um, but yeah, I'm excited that you're running, man. Uh, I think you're going to, you're going to do good there.

39:26

Um, I hope the Lord, uh, uh, sees fit to put you there because we, we just need more solid.

39:33

And look at it. I keep talking about biblical worldview and men have gotten so yet, but also understanding how to manage a budget, understanding how to relate to people, how to relate to employees.

39:44

You know, I got into, as a county commissioner realized, wow, we have this 55, $60 million budget.

39:50

We have 550 employees. Um, we've got relationships with, um, you know, labor forces and, uh, uh, unions and the police department, the health department.

40:00

You go, oh, there's, there's a lot here to where you just have to have a good head on your shoulders and making wise decisions that necessarily, you know, you're not going to go to the, to the

40:10

Bible and go, oh, what should I do about? No, there's principles. That's why I say worldview is important. There's principles that you're going to apply to what seems like mundane things, but are actually very, very important.

40:20

Um, fiscal, you know, financial decisions, things like that. And talking to you at length at the conference. And then obviously here too,

40:26

I just understand, you know, you, you've, you've read, you've run that youth, um, center. Um, there's a lot of stuff involved there.

40:33

I know our youth center director here in our County. It is a insane job on just spending plates, budgets, relationships.

40:42

I get it. So I think you're more than qualified for that position. So I'm happy to see you. So you run in that. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, one of the biggest principles, um, that, that will help anybody in any part of life is the fear of the

40:55

Lord is the beginning of all knowledge, all wisdom. Right. And we have to have that, um, to listen to guide us.

41:01

We have to, um, you know, loving your neighbor is, is a big principle that, that, that we all hold dear.

41:07

And again, we've got to be able to explain what love is. Right. And love doesn't always mean acceptance.

41:13

Um, but love does mean telling the truth, being honest, um, showing people, you know, right now

41:19

I'm, I'm, I'm hearing things, you know, because once you start putting your name, we have people start saying, well, what are you going to do about this? And we need to do that.

41:24

You know, all that stuff. Right. And, uh, and so it's like, well, you have here, like it's already started. It's just going to compound once, once the election is finished.

41:32

But, um, but here's a big thing that people don't get as, as I do believe a hundred percent in ownership of property.

41:38

Right. Um, I believe that's a biblical principle. I believe that's a thing. However, how you, um, maintain your property directly affects the neighbor right next to you.

41:51

And that's because of how property values are assessed. Right. So if you have cars on blocks and you have, um, trash that you just throw out in your yard and, and you have, and you let your house go and all this stuff.

42:03

It directly affects your neighbor's opportunity to have equity or to even sell their house if it comes time.

42:10

Or it could be a safety issue, which, uh, let's remember the mosaic law talks about pair of piff on the roof. Right. That's why we have building code.

42:16

Go on. A hundred percent. And that's how you create those codes. And that's when, when I talk about using the

42:22

Bible and I talk about using biblical, that's what I'm talking about right there. I'm not talking about a forcible.

42:28

Everybody's got to be a Christian because first of all, you can't force anybody to be a Christian anyways. Right. And we know that the

42:33

Lord saves. And then, so a government can't force that. And, um, however, um, you can run a community based on biblical principles like that.

42:42

And so, so that's the stuff that I'm excited about and I'm excited about coming my way. Um, is it more work?

42:48

Well, yeah, that's what I signed up for. Right. Um, is it more time? Is, is there little intricacies that, that, that take place that just like the land and all that stuff?

42:57

Absolutely. And, and that stuff just gets me fired up, you know, and, and just, uh, just, uh, stand on my heel here in Davis County.

43:04

Our County has such potential. It really does. And, uh, but, but just like most communities, we just don't have unity.

43:09

Right. We, and, and the reason why we don't have unity is because we don't have a mission or a vision or, or even a goal that we're shooting for.

43:15

So what are we unified to if there is no mission, vision or goal? Right. And so, so that's the thing.

43:21

And we just have to, we have to create a place where people want to live, where they want to work, where they want to grow. And that's what, that's what

43:27

I'm, I'm excited about trying to do in Davis County and, um, and trying to just see it flourish. You know,

43:32

I reached out to Aaron Wren, give Aaron Wren a shout out. And, uh, and I said, Hey man, um, cause he lives in Indy now.

43:39

So he lives real close. Like that's only two hours away. And I said, Hey, what do you think about Davis County? You've been here for a while.

43:44

What do you think about Davis County? And here's what he told me. And I'll just be honest with you. He said, Davis County is done. It's dead. It's dead.

43:50

And I'm like, well, thank you for that. And then now what that does for me is it just fires me up.

43:55

Right. And I'm like, I'll show you Aaron Wren. Right. And I, and I don't think he cares about that. I don't think he minds that at all.

44:00

And, um, but I'm like, I'll show you like our County is not dead. Our County is not done. And, um, and, uh, do we have a lot of work to do?

44:07

Absolutely. But that's one thing that I know. And, and, and I know Michigan has this a lot all over the place, but, but definitely

44:13

Indiana does too. Is just hard working people. And that really will take their sleeves, roll them up and let's get going.

44:21

If they just had, had a, had a, had a vision or a spot where they said, here's where we're going to go.

44:27

Right. Yeah. And, um, they'll roll their sleeves up and get to work. And that's what we're going to do. All right. As we put a bookends on this, uh, do you want to take a shot at where do you see us politically in five to 10 years?

44:39

Uh, cause I don't think stupid, like Doug Wilson says, I don't think stupid is a good strategy.

44:45

And right now, uh, we have a lot of stupid going on in politics. Um, I think the pendulum has swung, uh, but I think it's going to start swinging back the other way.

44:54

That's just me. And I'm talking in generalities. I'm not going to sit here and, uh, you know, uh, prophesy, uh,

45:01

I'm going to, I'm going to say, I think there's going to have to become. So, you know, cause we, we have some common graces, uh, that the

45:09

Lord gives us any way to recognize certain things. And what I found is when I'm going out talking to people who are maybe apolitical or,

45:17

Hey, like you said, hardworking want to make sure there's food on the table. Make sure my kids are taken care of.

45:23

They get, even they go, uh, we're getting into crazy land. You know, they've said that for the last couple of years.

45:29

So as someone who, uh, has their finger on the pulse, what do you see in the next five, eight, 10 years, either politically or even, um, you know, in, in local state and federal government, you think we're going to keep going in the same direction?

45:45

Do you think there'll be a shift? What are your thoughts? And I'm not holding you to anything. I'm just saying just when you think about it.

45:51

Yeah. But, but we could look back on this in five or 10 years and be like, well, one of us was right. Right. So, um, so, so maybe

45:58

I'll throw out like five things and one of them maybe hits and see which one sticks. Um, no, no. I think if we keep going this direction, right, if we keep going the crazy route, um,

46:08

I think it ends up consuming itself. And, um, and we're already starting to see that now.

46:13

Right. Um, we were starting to see that, that in all honesty, um, there, there's a couple of people groups that are actually the ones having babies.

46:22

Right. And, and, and this is just a sheer reality, but, but it's, it's the Muslim, uh, faith and it's actually now the

46:29

Christian faith. Right. Um, yep. I'm seeing that more and more. I think on average, Muslims have about about four to six children.

46:35

Um, on average Christians were having about one something and now that's bumped up and, uh, and I don't know about your friend group, but my friend group is having two, three, four, five.

46:45

Yep. Um, kids. 2 .4 for Muslims, 2 .1 for Christians. And the national average is 1 .7.

46:51

So that's, I just read those numbers a few months ago and was discussing with my pastor. That's the only reason why I jump in and give you those.

46:57

So exactly what you're saying. Yeah. So, so we're on, we're trending upward, um, which is a good thing.

47:04

Um, as far as Christians are trending upward with, with having children. And, um, and so you see the kind of agnostic, um, atheist type group who are just choosing not to have children, um, who aren't getting married till later, all that stuff.

47:17

And it's, and the feminist movement, right? All those things. They're, they're going to end up consuming themselves cause they don't reproduce.

47:23

However, they have a safety net. Um, and that safety net is, is, is education. Well, they'll just reproduce through, through education purposes.

47:31

Right. Um, meaning that we're sending our kids off to colleges and things that are doing that.

47:36

So, but here's what, here's, here's, I think COVID was a great highlighter, um, for that.

47:43

And I don't want to belabor the fact of COVID, but I do think it actually shined a lot of light to a lot of things.

47:48

And one is, is that rural communities actually began to thrive during COVID.

47:55

Um, they just did. Um, they were the ones that were saying no to, to a lot of the mandates.

48:00

They were saying, no, we're, we're doing just fine. Um, we don't need that. Um, and we saw that we saw churches in rural communities thriving, growing people, people driving couple hours just to go to that church in the rural area.

48:14

And, um, and so I kind of still Michael Foster's, uh, gig when, when he says county before country and I add

48:20

Christ above all. Right. Um, I do believe that we're going to start to see, um, some more localism take place.

48:28

And I think we already have a hundred percent. We already have country, right. And it really is. It's the best thing for our country.

48:35

That's how our country was actually built. Um, it was built on States and local and, and all this stuff. Um, and we still have those protections, some protections of the

48:44

States, right. Where the States get to kind of choose different things. Um, on a, on a national level though.

48:50

Um, I think you're going to see liberal liberalism progress 10 times more, but it's going to be a lot less people.

48:58

Um, and what I mean by that, they're going to hit harder and hard. They're going to double, triple, quadruple down on these things.

49:04

We just saw California, uh, pass a, pass a legislation where, um, you can have sex transition surgeries for, uh, illegal immigrants now.

49:13

And that's mandated. Now the healthcare has to pay for that in California. So they're going to triple quadruple down, but it's going to push more people out into the middle of the

49:24

United States. And, um, and you're going to start seeing the middle of the United States grow. Yeah.

49:30

That's my, that's my opinion on that. It's already happening. I'm not, I'm not like pop sign, but it's just, it's going to really highlight and get bigger.

49:36

Yeah. Uh, which I think is a good thing because what, what happens is you read through Ecclesiastes, which we're going through in small group for the whole year.

49:45

Um, and I love Ecclesiastes. A lot of people go, oh man, what a depressing book. I go, I don't know. There's a, there's a man who's seen it, lived it.

49:52

Uh, and he's giving you words of wisdom of, yes, there's nothing new under the sun, but also talking about, look at if you're striving for something, uh, in your job, that's in vain.

50:02

But in the next breath, he says it is an absolute good thing to work with your hands, to build things, to have a job.

50:09

And we've lost self -reliance in this country. You live in even a semi -rural area or a smaller city.

50:15

Uh, funny story. My brother was talking to his wife and he was saying, uh, how he told his wife,

50:23

I got to go deer hunting. He goes, it's just been a hundred years when we used to go out and hunt for our food. That's still in my DNA. And now we walk down the aisle and go,

50:29

I want some beef. I want some chicken. I want some duck, you know? And it's this weird thing to where the Lord has created us to, to build things and to, uh, gather things and to hunt things and all these and all these things.

50:39

And the rural areas really do find that. And you're absolutely right. During COVID it was like, uh, we're outside working, we're getting a vitamin

50:48

D and lo and behold, that was the vaccine we needed for COVID when everyone else was holed up inside.

50:54

And, uh, you know, for five, six, seven days, two weeks, whatever, as non -essential workers and going, oh,

50:59

I hope this thing passes us by like the angel of death. When in fact you were just hurting yourself worse by not doing those things.

51:06

Yeah. So we could talk about that all day, but, uh, you know, as we wrapped this up, can you give a shout out to where people can follow you?

51:13

Maybe if they want to, um, you know, follow you on the campaign, we'll make sure we link this up. So anyone who's listening to this can just click on it, but let us know where we can find you.

51:22

Yeah, I'm pretty simple. Uh, Facebook is, is, is where most people find me at. Um, you can find it at TC cook, uh, on Facebook.

51:30

And then from there, then, then I link it to the campaign and we run there in a website going, um, for that is set up yet.

51:38

Um, we actually don't get to declare until tomorrow. Tomorrow is a declaration first day of, of declaring.

51:43

So, so we're getting out there quickly, but, um, but yeah, that's where TC cook on Facebook. You can find me there and, uh, and I'll shoot you the link so you can, you can have it on there.

51:52

Awesome. Got anything else for us before we get out of here, TC? No, man. Hey, if I could recommend anything to anybody is, is get involved locally where you're at.

52:02

Most of us are very few can probably make a difference in the nation. Um, some can make a difference in their state, but, but all of us can make a difference in our community where we're at.

52:12

So get started there. How do you get started? Join a local church. Um, go out, just go to your meetings, go to council meetings, go see what the issues are and see if your talents, your gifts, whatever can help.

52:25

Because it takes a whole community to run a good community. That's actually thriving. And so it'll take you to go out there and we need more people, um, to get involved.

52:35

Couldn't agree more. Uh, we are totally on board with that. TC. Thanks so much for taking time. Sit down with us today.

52:41

I appreciate you, man. Have a good one. Cool guys. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of dead men walking podcast.

52:47

As always, you can go to dmwpodcast .com. Check us out back episodes. We've got the merch cave there too.

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We've got some new t -shirts, um, some fun stuff. Wine, I'm dying. I'm Romans nine. Um, we've got the

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Presbyterian thug life on there. We've got the James white, uh, honoring his, uh, cross country trek in his

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So we appreciate it as always guys. Remember the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

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