"Who Are Your Elders?" How Much Authority Do Church Leaders Have Over Your Life?

Moore's Corner Church

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Hello, and thank you for listening to the testing the spirits podcast in this episode We're going to be talking about elder authority.

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Have you ever seen someone commenting on Facebook or YouTube? Somebody makes a comment somebody else doesn't like it and they're like, who are your elders?

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I'm gonna call your elders and your elders are gonna Basically tell you what you're allowed to post or not post on the internet

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So we're gonna be talking about this elder authority how much authority do elders have over the lives of their church members

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Can they tell you what to post and not post on the internet? Can they tell you what to do during the week?

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Well, there's a situation. Here's why I'm talking about this. This got me thinking about it

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I've seen this over the years it's becoming more common someone will express a viewpoint on the internet and Someone else will be like who are your elders and basically

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I'm gonna go and report you Because do your elders know that you're doing this?

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There was a situation recently Yesterday or the day before where James White and JD Hall There was some incident there and I'm not gonna insert myself into that situation.

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This just got me thinking about it So James White is an elder JD Hall is a former pastor.

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They attend different churches but long story short JD Hall posted something to the internet that James White did not like and James White responded publicly and said basically do your elders know that you're doing this so Not going to talk about that specific

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Subject that's between them and it's not really my business I have my opinions, but we're gonna talk about this in general because This is becoming more common

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So yeah, like I said, it's very common on YouTube I'm sure it happens on Facebook Twitter social media.

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Somebody will express a viewpoint online and somebody will respond by typing who are your elders and that is meant to Maybe scare or intimidate somebody or let them know

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I think you're doing something wrong and I'm gonna report you to your church and they're gonna put you under church discipline and Some people say well, my elders have no authority over what

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I do on the internet, you know They have authority in the church, but they don't have authority over my personal life, they don't have authority over my

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Facebook account and This is I think a good opportunity to talk about how much authority elders have

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So, let me just say this this should be obvious, okay if it's an actual sin

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That's being committed Then it could be legitimate to do something like that if a church member just for example, let's make it obvious Let's say a church member

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Recorded themselves smoking crack or cheating on their spouse and they posted that to the

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Internet. Well, yeah I think we would all agree. It would be completely appropriate to confront them and or report that to their church leadership

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But I think that's the criteria. It has to be a clear Commandment violation has to be clear sin

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Where you can quote chapter and verse and they're obviously breaking a commandment

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So when you do that, yeah That's another story but when it's something just somebody doesn't like or I disagree with that Are you really gonna get church elders involved over a

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Facebook post or something on social media? Well, depending on what it is Maybe that's possible.

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Sure, but It depends. So yeah, if it's a clear commandment Violation, that's one thing

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But what you can and cannot do During the week, you know when it comes to subjective things matters of an opinion, you know getting elders involved or You know tattling on church, you know to the church leadership or saying, you know

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You're elder you need to get permission from your elders to do this or that. I think this Can end up getting into?

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Abuse of authority. I did a whole podcast titled power tripping elders You can listen to that but there is spiritual abuse out there

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That's one extreme and then the other extreme says that elders and pastors have no authority.

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You can just do whatever you want. Well There is a balance here. So let's let's get into this.

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How much authority do elders have? Can elders tell you what to wear? Do you have to get permission from the elders to take out a loan for a mortgage?

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Can elders tell you what you can or cannot post on the internet and then if you step out of line

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Can they put you under church discipline? I know that might sound wild You know the idea that you need to get permission from your elder before you take out a loan or something like that I've heard

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I don't know any personal examples. I've heard people Say things like that where you know at this church at my church

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These are people online so I guess you never know but it's a big world I'm sure this has happened this happens in cults and sometimes abusive leadership in a church can

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You know start drifting into cult territory where you have to ask permission from the pastor or the elders to do this or to do that So yeah, there are a lot of abusive cult leaders or people even within churches who?

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Sometimes act like cult leaders, that's I think more common within the megachurch movement

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We've talked about spiritual abuse before you know where nobody is allowed to question the leader

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You know touch not the Lord's anointed so nobody can disagree nobody can Think different than the anointed leader, but this can happen in small churches as well

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So biblically speaking How much authority does an elder have?

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First of all we need to recognize. This is a delegated Authority Christ is the one who has all authority so if you are a

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Christian you are submitting yourself to Christ and Then Christ has appointed what we would call under shepherds in the church

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So these would be pastors and elders there is a legitimate authority there

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But first of all it's a delegated authority Peter writes this and first Peter 5.

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He says shepherd the flock so this is Peter a shepherd an elder speaking to other shepherds other elders

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He says shepherd the flock of God which is among you serving as overseers or bishops not by Compulsion but willingly not for dishonest gain

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But eagerly nor as being Lords over those entrusted to you.

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That's very important but he says be an example to the flock okay, so Don't Lord it over the flock

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But be an example to the flock and he says when the chief shepherd appears Jesus Christ You will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away

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Submit to God resist the devil Likewise you younger people submit yourselves to your elders.

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Yes, all of you be submissive to one another and Be clothed with humility for God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble

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So I think that would be the key verse on the subject. So we see that believers should submit

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Certainly this applies within the church so pastors and elders do have authority in the church

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But they obviously right this is obvious. They can't show up at your house and start bossing you around They can't show up at your place of business.

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They have authority over the church. They don't have authority in your home They don't have authority at your place of business, right?

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The husband is the head of the home during the day the mother has Authority how to raise and discipline her children so shepherds can teach and give advice but outside the local church

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That's pretty much where the authority ends But if someone is sinning, okay going back to the original

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Question about you know, what provoked this about posting things on social media and stuff like that.

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You say well, it's my time during the week It's my Facebook account, right? But if someone is sinning and it's out in the open elders can

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Step in so more on that in a moment, but that doesn't give them free reign So we have to be very careful about this

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But notice what Peter says he says to the shepherds not to Lord it over the flock.

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So elders are to lead by example We should also be submissive to one another

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Now that idea of mutual submission that can be abused as well So the pendulum can swing, you know to one side or the other

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So we're sort of talking about elders who try to exercise too much authority here, but I think it's probably more common

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In small churches anyways where the pastor, you know The pastor has more authority than most people probably think that's probably more of a problem where you know

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The authority is not respected at all. But the topic of this podcast is where elders are

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Having too much authority. They're overstepping their bounds and like I said, this is probably more common in the larger churches, but this is just It's I'm seeing it more.

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I'm seeing more comments that would lead me to think this is a growing problem So I think it's important that we talk about it

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So historically a bishop and biblically these terms bishop overseer elder pastor

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They can be used interchangeably But it's been understood over time that a bishop has authority in the church

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And again, that's in the church right and the authority generally speaking is a teaching

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Authority we are to teach and uphold the commandments of Christ and that is a real authority

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But it's a delegated authority So as long as we're teaching the truth and as long as we're upholding what

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Christ said that is a legitimate authority after all Titus 2 15 says speak these things exhort rebuke with all authority let no one despise you so that Verse and many others are clear.

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There is a real authority, but that doesn't mean okay with all that said that does not mean that Elder or the pastor, but in this case we're talking about elders that doesn't mean

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The elders get to micromanage your life. Okay. It doesn't mean that the elders

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Can tell you what you can or cannot post on Facebook or Twitter or YouTube?

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Now I suppose this could be a two -hour long Podcast but just to keep it shorter and to the point we would probably

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I think there's a lot of situations We would have to take it on a case -by -case basis

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But going back to the original reason why I chose to do the podcast do elders have authority

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Outside of the church how much authority do they have do they have authority and people's? Personal lives or what they post on the internet generally

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I want to say no Except when clear sin is being committed then obviously

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I would say they have a responsibility Maybe that's a better way to put it that would make other people understand.

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So there's authority. Yes, but it's also a responsibility because They're supposed to be looking out for your soul not looking out for themselves

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Not just looking to enforce their own opinions and their own, you know, what they perceive to be their own standards and their own rules

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There needs to be a genuine concern for the flock. Look at what Hebrews 13 verse 17 says

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Obey those who rule over you and be submissive For they watch out for your souls as those who must give account

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Let them do so with joy and not with grief for that would be unprofitable for you

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So along with the teaching authority and an authority for what happens within the fellowship outside of that This is really what it comes down to outside of the church

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It comes down to this are the elders trying to control you

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Are they just telling you what to do? Are they bossing you around? Are they overstepping their bounds or do you see that they really have a heart for wanting?

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What's? Best for you. I think you can usually tell what a person's motivation is only

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God knows the heart but we can Usually get a pretty good sense Are they just looking to crack down on anyone who disagrees with them or do they have a genuine concern for what's right?

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And what's true? Sometimes I get it it can sort of be subjective.

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You don't know what someone's motivation is, but Again we can take case -by -case

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Situations, but a lot of times there are power -tripping elders I'm just gonna say it because I've seen it so many times

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There are power -tripping elders who are just they're not looking out for the flock. They're just looking out.

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What's best for them? This is very common within the megachurch movement and pastors the anointed leader

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The elders they're looking out for themselves So just to give a quick recap, you know, and if and this is really what it boils down to they

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They see someone disagreeing with them. Someone's doing something. They don't like and they want to use their authority to crush

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Someone else people they disagree with well You need to be very careful about that, so let's give one or two quick examples and then

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We'll close. So we've seen the recap. We've seen there is a real authority We've talked about how authority can be abused but just to keep this simple when it all gets boiled down When it comes to authority outside of the church, we get it

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There's an authority in the church, but outside of the church, it really comes down to this Elders really don't have much of a say

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Outside of the church Except when there is clear and open sin

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There is a responsibility to deal with that but has to be clear and open sin. You need to have clear chapter and verse

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Why this is wrong not just hey, I don't like it. So I'm going to make a big deal. Who are your elders?

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I'm gonna get you in trouble. That shouldn't be the motivation So what authority to elders have outside of the

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Ecclesia outside of the church? You do not need to get permission Again, this should be obvious, but you don't need to get permission from your elders to write articles on the internet

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You don't need permission to start a YouTube channel. Maybe that's the best way to say it elders have authority in the church

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They don't have authority over your personal life But Jesus does okay

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Jesus does 1st Corinthians 620 says that we were bought at a price and we should pray and seek his will daily and we have

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The Holy Spirit to lead us and to guide us and yes, be careful not to ignore spiritual guidance

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The Lord has ordained leaders within the church, but they're not your boss Right.

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The the pastor is not your boss the elder in a lot of churches now They're going in this direction of elder rule and you know one elder is assigned

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Okay, these people are under your care. This elder has these people the elder is not your boss in the church

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So at Morris Corner Church where I'm the pastor Jesus is Jesus is the boss not me.

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I have a certain degree of delegated Responsibility. So as far as I'm rightly handling

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God's Word, I can speak with a level of authority but in and of myself I have no real authority.

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So long story short. You're accountable to Christ. We are all accountable to Christ Christ gives us a lot of freedom.

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Okay, we have a lot of freedom. So at the end of the day What you post on Facebook, whatever it is, whatever people do during the week

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The elders really have no say or authority except when there is clear and open sin

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Okay, so when somebody clearly does something wrong breaks a commandment

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Yes, I and this isn't the best approach who are your elders I'm gonna go report you like you're just pouring fuel on the fire, right?

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So I think everyone should take a deep breath and if there is something, okay

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This is the final example when there is a clear matter of sin. There's a process

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Right. There's the Matthew 18 process, but if it's just something let's say you see somebody post something does a

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YouTube video and you just Don't agree with it. I don't like it. You find it distasteful

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Consider letting it go If you can't again, there's a process but running straight to the elders

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You know seeing something somebody posts online and running straight to the elders is not the process

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So if we can just take a moment instead of reacting take a moment Look at what the scripture says follow that that along with a little grace

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I think would solve a lot of these problems even before they get started

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So if you have any questions or comments and you're listening on YouTube leave them in the comment section below But thanks for listening and until next time may the